Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte? You guys, welcome back to Are You a Charlotte. We are here with the fantastic Dylan mulvaney, and we are going to rewatch now more specifically, do our rewatch of cocka Doodle Doo. Yes, the finale of season three, Work Sex the City.
We're going to try to be less adhd if possible, promises, but it's a good time.
It's a good time, all right. So this to me is in so many ways as the Highs and the lows, right Like, it does so many great things, and then it has this this slightly insane and cringe worthy Samantha storyline, which we will get into specifically, but it also has just incredible storyline, especially for Carrie and Miranda. Yes, I think, and the reason that I love it is so many
different things. But I mean, first of all, there's things like one I did not remember, like this craziness that Carrie hears roosters crowing all night and all day, which is also.
Odd, and it was in a sound machine. No, they were real.
They were real, and they were in a veterinary like rescue. They were rescued. She finds out next door on the Upper East Side, which, okay, I've never heard of this.
They got rescued from cock fighting, right, which is.
A real thing. That there are still cockfighting things going on, which is insane, right, But like you know, I've never I don't know if any rooster rescues in New York City.
Well, sounds like there's a hole in the market. I mean, maybe here we go.
I should go back and ask them, like, where'd you guys come up with this? Because usually they.
Haven't see actual roosters, now, I never didn't think.
She does go to the vet, right, and then she feels bad when she finds out that they've been rescued right from the bronx.
I think, like the line producer probably said no on that one of seeing the real roosters, probably, but then they said we'll just stick them in the basement.
Right, And she's like no, no, no. She feels guilty that the poor roosters are going to have to go to the basement. But also she never hears anyone really tell her that it's roosters not chickens, because then when she talks to Big on the phone, she's like there's chickens and they're crowing, and he's like roosters.
She's like whatever, she's going crazy.
She is losing her mind a little bit. But it's adorable. And also I think it was really hot that summer. That's what went through my head many times. Oh, and I didn't tell you my story about the roof. This is the one thing that I remember the most vividly. I didn't even remember that awesome scene that Kyle and I did laying on against the wall. I had no
memory of it. Alan Culture, the director brought it up to me in his episode as something like he was bringing up the things that he fondly remembered as being like good moments that we did together, and I was like, yeah, I don't remember that at all. He said, I really loved it because at the time, he said, we had tried to block it many different ways, and then finally
we were like, none of this works. Let's just lean against the wall, Like, let's just lean against the wall and just talk simply, you know, which I think really was powerful and worked.
Honest.
Yeah, it was great. It was amazing, and I was so happy that it that it stood the test of time and was awesome, and I don't even remember, Like online we put Kyle and people were like, why did you even give up with that character train? And I'm like, I don't know, because I forget the things right. I vaguely remember the impotence, but I didn't remember that. Then we have sex once we separate. It's all very interesting.
But the roof the roof fact, this is the roof scene at the end of the episode, the roofstee at the end.
Of the episode with the very very much used photograph of us, where they were like laugh, everybody laugh, and so we're like, ah, it was so hot that the tar on the top of that rooftop was melted and ruined all of our shoes.
On the bottom side.
Yes, And it was the end of the season. So Sin and I had gotten an ice cream truck because we knew it was hot, right to bring ice cream for the whole crew, But we were on the roof. It was like thirty floors up. The elevator broke people, so we had to walk. We had to get the boxes of ice cream and walk them up all of these stairs. It was probably melted by the time. It
was a little melted, but no one cared. No one so happy to get anything cold in any way, even slightly cold up to the tippy top and the other thing that I saw recently, and it really really just brought back so many memories for me, because I do remember when I talk to people on the podcast, they're like, oh, you guys were the biggest hit right away. That was not our experience. Our experience was that we had to work hard and we had to do press. We would
talk to anybody for years and years and years. Right, Someone like ET maybe or E came to the set that day that sweltering over one hundred degree day to talk to maybe all of us, but definitely Sarah Jessica about who what is the show? People were still asking us what is the show? Right? This is season three and she gives the most adorable interview that is on Instagram. She just she's like, well, I played Carrie and I
write a sex column for the absurd. He and I have girlfriends and they're in the show with me, and there's Charlotte and she believes in love and she's a little bit more like so by the just couldn't like straight up do you what I mean? And she tells the whole thing, like just in one day, which if you ever see Sir Jessica now in an interview situation,
it's a much more complex situation going on. Yes, she's not really anybody any any easy answers, no, no. But back then, that's how important we felt like it was to sell the show. Yes, the people understand, like, we're not a logline of this exactly, We're not real sex, you know on HBO in the middle of the night. We this is what we are. It's adorable. And she's wearing that whole outfit. She's wearing her.
Little like it's like a diaper kind of but it's the cutest diaper you've ever seen in your entire life, with like a.
Whole thing off, and it's like a creation of She and Passion were.
Kind of giving like thirteen going on thirty.
Percent, which I think is like similar years.
Yeah, and we're back in it, babe, I.
Know we are back. And I also feel like Pat Pat has got me in a short skirt, which is really against my you know what I want to be wearing. And you can tell by the fact that I literally don't get up off that thing. I like wriggle around a little bit. I'm like worried about my legs. I'm just really worried about my legs. The whole scene, that's all I can think of what I watch it, and I just remember like just the heat radiating up from that bar, you know, and everybody just sweat weltering and
sweaty and trying to be jovial. And Carrie's got to get up and do her her turn, and she was all worried because she's wearing her nude fish net, which was like a big thing at the time. We were all out trying to find the nude fish net.
Very have seen those yet, I don't think this year.
I haven't either. Okay, anyway, back to the episode. Back to the episode, So let's just do Charlotte because that's going to be the easiest. Great So, yeah, it's Charlotte.
We come to her at the coffee shop. That's the first time we see her, and she's sad about Trey and she said about that she separated and that who wants to be divorced at thirty whatever she is at the time, and they're kind of trying to Oh, they come over to my apartment and unpack, which was weird because I guess we haven't gone through the whole thing where I end up getting his apartment. I hadn't remembered
that at all. But there's a pink lamp that I still have in my own bedroom, and there's a mirror that I had for many years that moved with Charlotte, you know, around that I got to keep, you know, which is nice. Yeah, I love that pink lamp. But I don't remember this at all. And it's so sweet that the girls come to help me unpack. And it's a very Alan culter scene because we're all moving in and out of frame, but the frame doesn't really move.
And it was a really hard thing as an actor to remember, like, oh, I've got to be to this place by this line, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, that was his specialty in a way. So we always knew, like you have to be like have your thinking cap on, like have enough coffee on the day that Alan culture is there so that you can do the choreography exactly on Broadway.
There we go.
I hope I can live up to that fantasy. Then then so I say, oh, I have this scene where I like walk to the doorway and say, like, wouldn't it be great if men didn't exist? And then we wouldn't feel disappointed? I mean, have you seen this thing about this article that this woman wrote about that people are embarrassed to post their boyfriends. Now, yes, it's so great.
It's kind of iconic, right, but it is it's how wild that we got to that from where she was in that doorway.
Right, because like back then, you know, and this is someone who desperately wanted to get married, right, but then who's obviously so disappointed.
And every other character had almost said that in a different context before, but we never thought we'd see never, Charlotte.
Never, and Charlotte's like, it would just be so much better if there were nomen and we could just feel good about ourselves. And that's kind of what we're seeing in this interesting twenty twenty five version of like we can make our own living. We've got our great house, we've got our great friends, we've got our dogs, we're traveling wherever it is.
If it's kind of creating boundaries and relationships in a way that like of being so clear about what it is you're looking for and what you want in someone else, and if they don't meet the mark, then your character did that I think probably the clearest of being pretty specific.
She was certainly very specific. I think her the main lesson in Tray, which I didn't realize was as complicated as it is, right and we're only part way through it by this episode, but you know, her issue was that she wanted the picture book, right, like you know how there's going to be that scene where he comes to take the picture with her, even though.
It's really over one of the home and gardens.
He understands, yeah, exactly, he understands how important that is for her, right, and that is something that's really important for her. But that is an empty picture, you know, And so that's her lesson, is that learning that your your picture perfect doesn't make you happy, right, And that's why then Harry you know, shows up on this and does make her happy, Thank goodness, because that's what she really wanted and needed. But you have to be smart enough and know yourself well enough. Right.
She almost manifested too hard, And I think for.
Sure she was so focused. And I do think that when when women focus, they focus, you know, one hundred and fifty percent, and they do get what they want it's just not necessarily they don't They don't want what's actually going to make them happy, right, But they don't know this until they get it and find that out right. And that's what I loved about Charlotte. And that was the plan. I mean, our writers this was They told me that was the plan, and I was like, okay.
But then once Kyle came, I was like, but you guys, we can't let him go.
But he played it so well.
So brilliantly, so brilliantly, so brilliantly. He's so good in that scene when we lean on the on the backboard and I ask him, you know whatever it is, it's like the lower part of the wall. And I ask him like, did you actually ever really want to marry me? And he says, well, I don't know that I really wanted to marry anyone. Does he say that or something like that? He said, I just thought I should. It's nice to hear man saying that. Yes, interesting right, like.
The and it's a different flip of your coin, because you obviously were like, I should get married. I will get married, and it should look exactly like this, So he almost you were guilty of a similar crime.
Definitely, which is so perfect, so perfect, yea, so perfect. And then he says very sweetly, and I say something like, well, why did you then? And he said, you know, because I felt like I had to in society tell me I have to. But also I didn't think I'd ever find anyone better than you or whatever, more perfect or something so sweet.
Sad like he loved her.
I know, but it says, but then we carry on next season.
Oh yep, sod it.
I don't remember.
I don't know what happens, okay, because not all that the crazy sex hasn't happened yet.
No, I mean just once, the one the one time, right, But can I just say I don't know if I should say this, but I mean I could watch Kyle and I kissing all day.
Oh it's it works, it's let me tell you. Chemistry is great. And it was so I think it was as an audience member, we we wanted.
That, like it was like I want it and I was in it, so refreshing.
Right.
Yeah, it's also how interesting that you've built this relationship with this this relationship up with this other actor and you haven't done any of those sex scenes, whereas everybody else is meeting someone the first day and then so you're obviously so comfortable with Kyle at that point, right, and then it's like you're finally doing what everybody else has been doing the entire season.
Which is a much weight. It's very hard to just meet someone and have to jump in bed with them on the set, you know what I'm saying.
It's very odd, and so Kyle was probably one of the few that you got that to do that with.
Oh, for sure, for sure, for sure. I mean I have been making out with him for many many months at this point, do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
But also it was very tasteful the way we do, you know this particular like he comes in the door and then it's craziness, but then we just fall out of frame, which is cute, I thought.
And I think to land that next moment of the honesty of it, so that it didn't feel camp, you know.
Definitely, No, I know, Alan Culture did a great job. I know he is a good director. We always loved him. He was one of my absolute favorites, which is why I had him on the Pond. All right, So that's Charlotte, and yes, so he confesses that he says he hadn't felt the sex drive since before they got engaged, which is interesting because you know, Charlotte was the one who was like, I'm going to make him wait because I think this could be the one, which I think is
such a misguided thing of waiting. Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't think it's misguided to wait a little bit, right, Like, I don't think I think that if you don't wait at all, it could Yes, tell.
Us, Oh my god, the rules. Did you ever read the rook? I had a whole last year's situation? Last year we went. I I was a bridesmaid. I know,
I know it. So I was a bridesmaid in my godsister's wedding and it was, you know, me, this transgirl living in LA And then the most wholesome, sort of you know, couple that had gotten married the early twenties, and all were on a boat for her bachelorette and there and I'm telling them I'm the only single one, you know, and they're all married off and most beautiful blondes you've ever seen, and they go, you need to read the rules. We've all got our husbands because.
Of the rules.
Oh Jesus Christ.
And I'm going, well, I think Amazon it to the boat. I think I got a dinghy for five ninety nine extra. But I mean, and then it became my bible because I said, well, if it worked for them in Colorado, it's going to work for me a trans girl in
the spotlight in La And it did not. But one of them was that you can't have sex until like the third or fourth date or something, and it's like, well that's hard, and then I'm And there was other ones though, where I obviously I think we both love to talk, but it was like, you can't ask a question before, like you, and then you can't call.
Them first, you can't so many.
You can't visit them if you're a long distance like And I lived by that for so long until I like, I forget what the turning point was. But there was one night where I was reading it and it was towards the end and I was like this and it because it was like it literally was how to take away all of your parts of yourself in order to be a good wife or a potential And then I was like, but then what happens when you actually get
married and then they find out who you are? For sure, but maybe was it kind of Do you think Charlotte would have read the rules?
Oh? Yeah, No, Charlotte's got a bunch of books. I can't remember if I held the rules up. She's got a bunch of books. She's got the book about how you need to look at it like a corporate you know, job right, She's got to make cold calls and whatever, call her married friend's husbands and ask them to set her up on dates whatever. That was a weird one.
And then you got set up with the married guy exactly the friend.
Oh to me, Trey, But yeah, that was so wicky and Charlotte's like what, which I thought was funny. But I do think she had the Rules on her bookshelf at one point, like maybe first or second season, because I I mean, there was a time where you couldn't escape that book.
It was everywhere.
Yeah.
Also, do you think this idea of her saving herself for marriage? Did she obviously had had sex before?
Clearly?
And then did I think I remember that correctly? Yeah? But did do you think that she was like this is the one I want, so I'm going to do it differently?
Definitely? Well, I think I think she she tried many things, right, like how you do when you have this goal but you don't know how to get to it, And so she tried many things, and she did, I think have in her head in general. You know, I've got to keep him like because she doesn't. They just make out for weeks, man, Yes, and I won't let him in the house or whatever. It's crazy.
But do you think would it have it would have gone differently if she would have had sex with him?
Well, I think it would have gone differently because I feel, I feel what do I know? Right? They are fictional characters fight.
Just for a second.
What would have happened? Was that? So he says in this scene, I haven't felt this sex strive since before we got engaged, right, So that means when they got engaged with Charlotte engineers, Yes, you know what I mean? Like that was Charlotte's doing the timing of it, right, Maybe he was thinking it, but he's not gonna do it right then. And then he buys her the ring because she's pouting and blah blah blah blah. Right, so it was all kind of backwards in some alrighty, Yes,
the nightmare the nightmare word, Yes, that that was. People just said that to us all the time for quite some time. I think what would have happened was they would have been free.
To define their relationship exactly see.
And they would have been free from whatever constraints shut him down, right, which has to do obviously with his mother and whatnot.
And your pressure to.
And my pressure on my timeline to get engaged and then you're in. I do think that's something that happens, and I hope it's less so now in twenty twenty five, but I'm not sure if it is. You know, there you do go into a husband wife mentality of like, oh, we're doing the things that are expected of us, and
that can feel very stifling, you know, for people. So I think if they if Charlotte hadn't made him wait and done all these things, then he would have been freer and maybe they could have found each other in a freer way, in a more complete way, and then hopefully things could have still gone along. I don't think that he's that kind of guy where he needs the pursuit, you know what I'm saying. I don't feel like he's that.
I feel like he's a good guy, but he does seem to have some kind of deep seated issues.
Well, yea, those families do breed him that way, so sure.
For sure, for sure, and not a not a family where you're talking about your feelings freely as Charlotte. Also, you know, Charlotte or no, not Bunny, not Bunny McDougal. She goes smoke and be mean. But Charlotte at one point earlier in the show says, you know, in my family, we don't talk about our feelings. We tennis, which was true in his family too, right, like that whole tennis. Yeah, anyway, so who knows, who knows what would have happened?
Okay, we will never know.
But I think what's great is whatever's gonna we're going to see in the fourth season, where apparently we have a lot of sex.
I don't remember this, Well you're about to.
I guess I am. I'm excited. I'm excited to see it. But I did really love how we how we leave it there with us just talking really honestly, which is really really nice. Okay, let's just ignore Samantha for a second, because we have talked about her for a while. Let's talk about Miranda.
It's so good it's really good.
It's so good. And if you think about the whole trajectory of Miranda, including the films, and in just like that she's struggling with the fact that she's judgmental, it's so great and I love her so much.
And the ft it's like triggered in the weirdest way of her ordering food yes and feeling judged yes.
Because the girl laughs at her and knows her her order. And then she goes down there to confront this woman who's laughing at her and sees her laughing in the same way with someone else over nothing, and then she realizes that it's not about her, which is like so true to life.
There's so many of those moments where you like, I think it's somebody. A lot of people say they're never thinking about you the way that you think they are. We're all so like individual that it's we're not thinking about other people that we're not.
But of course you take it personally if you feel like someone at the time.
And which Miranda, would you ever have those conversations in the shower with yourself where like you it's like all the things you would say to a person if you were And then those conversations never happen.
Yes, yes, but that's what I love so much about Miranda and Carrie, Like when they do get in this fight in.
This the first big one ever, it's the first.
Well, there is one earlier on that's also about Big, where Carrie calls her from a phone booth in the rain, and then you think she might be calling me Big, But then she goes and she meets Miranda. Miranda's all wet and she's come to the coffee shop. That I think was the first fight. Yes, it wasn't as in depth as this fight.
This fight to me, all of it on the table.
It was so good and so risky, Like I never fight with my girlfriends.
I'd be scared to death.
I shouldn't say never. Occasionally a fight will happen. The tension is like, I feel like it's very risky to say things like this to your girlfriends.
Because that's your safe space.
It's your safe space, and you might be blowing up your safe space because literally, Miranda says to carry, I do not want to hear about Big again, and I do not want you coming to cry on my shoulder, you know, And she's not wrong, right, But then in the end, of course she is wrong, because of course you're going to be there for your friend to cry and the shoulder, and if the friend has to go through that, the friend has to go through that.
And I think that that was such a growing pain moment of like, because it then it leveled the playing field in a way, because I think they both got everything they needed to off their chest, not in the most productive way, but in a way that then their friendship. When you get through something like that, it only becomes richer.
Absolutely, And that's what is so incredible about them, because they're both so strong in their own ways. I mean, Miranda's kind of more openly strong and Judgie, but Carrie's very strong as well, right, and she stands right back up to her in the vintage shop. You know, that's the whole thing in the veneed shop. I had forgot.
Stubborn all about it. Well, still, the girls can be stubborn. That's very true.
That's very very true in their own ways. It's very very true, very very true. All right.
So wait, oh, they run into the boyfriends.
They run into the boyfriends. That was so crazy. I didn't remember that. I didn't even remember that. Steve and Aiden become friends. But it totally makes so much sense. They both have their dogs, they're both like regular guys, right, I mean, is Aidan simple? I don't think so. It kind of seems like you might be there.
I think it's the delusion of the girls, because that's I feel like me and my girlfriends we operate out of delusion, and that that's why we've gotten where we are is because we're like, well, of course they're these guys are just having drinks, thinking about us and talking about us with other women.
Right.
And then but when those girls walk coming out or just wherever those women are, I know, and they it hits you and it's the most embarrassing thing, and you fall from this pedestal. And and then when they're you know, they're bumping. They don't know where to do with their.
Bodies when they can't get out. Oh my god.
But have you ever had any weird run ins with xes?
Oh? L, I'm sure I have. I don't even know. Your questions are too good and scary scary, yes, scary you can tell by the deer in the headlights. I can't think right now. I mean, yeah, I I generally am relatively friendly with my exits.
How about have you ever worn something that like you knew you were going to see your ex and so you're like, I'm going to look I'm going to look like this.
Well for sure, I mean it's been a while. It's been a second, yes, since I've been concerned with any xes, Let's put it that way. They're like, I'm like kind of over it all, do you know what I mean?
Not yet, I'm concerned about are you exes? Yeah?
Are you well?
Because maybe one of them could still be up the one you know?
Have you heard is it opal lighte? I'm going to talk to Taylor Swift song right now. Okay, she has this line. I love it so much. So at the beginning of you heard is it op light she says, I have this habit of living in the past. I think she says, thinking about my exes. My brother calls it eating from the trash.
Honey, pull the trash can out because I'm I'm hungry interest.
I don't know if you should do that though, no, no, no, can be a waste of time.
And then I wrote down a quote. I'm going to a quote this episode and sad, I wish it was a Taylor swift lyric. But this one way the rear view mirror, the relationship appears closer than the relationship appears closer than it appears.
Listen, I'm a master at this, and I just need to tell you, don't waste your time with this.
Okay.
If they're gone, they're gone for a reason. They're gonna come back. Don't let them. You need to be moving forward this take it from me. I've spent a lot of time waiting for it.
In the way that Alabama guy taught me, he was like, you're a woman. I'm also now Kristin Davis has taught me that I don't need to go back to the battle. You don't let it go.
They're going to come.
But I will say, but the rear view mirror for Carrie, I think is really interesting because you start to romanticize it. Once the time goes on, you're like, wait, what was so bad? Right?
But that's what I do love about Carrie, because Carrie in this is the episode where they go and have lunch at the boat house and fall in the pond, which was like a very big deal, and she wears that incredible. I think it's a Richard Tyler dress.
Who it's almost that we think it's going to be the naked dress because of she's.
But it's lunch, right, it's lunch, and it's and it's better. It's better. But I remember the stress about them falling in the pond and they had like hydrogen peroxide to like pour them because it's green. It's solid green in that pond. Like you don't want to go in that pond, you know what I mean. But it was such a great thing that they were like, yeah, we're going to do it. So they had we had like first daid there and everything, and then she cuts her foot in
the pond. Yeah, she cut her foot in the pond. She had to go get a tetanis shot. And then this is another thing that I remember happening because I wasn't there that day, but I remember like there's a big rum. You're you're you're worried, like how's it going? And I think Sarah and I might have had our blackberries at that point, the original ones, like the tiny little ones. Yeah, and we text all day, you know, and I was like so worried, like how's it going,
How's it going? And you know, how they fall they fall so beautifully in the water because he kind of comes in to kiss her and she's like ah, and then her physical comedy is so brilliant, you know. So she's like very gorgeously slow mogoes backward and her leg
kicks up. Well, the paparazzi had been there and they took a bunch of pictures, and then later they reached out to her people and was like, well, we have pictures of Sir Jusica falling in the pond and she wasn't wearing underwear, and you need to pay us for these pictures. And was like, I was totally wearing underwear. What are they talking about?
Like psychotic?
I know, this is how it is. Okay, this is how it is. And I remember this stress and I was so stressed out, like yeah, what could those pictures be? And she was like, I was wearing underwear. Don't even worry. I'm not even worried about it. And I was like, you are stronger than me. But you know, they did they the pond in any way.
No, it's huge, They're not important, there's nothing.
No, they hadn't doused them with hydrogen peroxide like over their heads.
I hope they got a good wrap gift for that.
I don't think so back in the day, I can't think of what the rap gift was. I don't know been part.
Of me, I think because I'm so optimistic and just want to do everything twice, I'd be like, oh, I get to fall like I'm one of the few people that get to falla in the pond.
I mean, I do think they felt it was special. Okay, it was so We hate the word iconic because everyone used to use it back in the day and now people use it every other sentence or whatever. It was iconic.
What was your most special thing that you said? I can't believe this is happening to me right now.
My first thought was the tray wedding because it was so beautiful. Yeah, But the second thought was the wedding that doesn't happen in the movie because we're at the New York Public Library, Yes, and we filmed there for so long and it was so gorgeous.
I did I recreated your when BIG's Coming after Carrie and I was in the little Black dress with it then't Yeah? Good that so, but that felt crazier at Lart, Like it felt.
Crazy because it was so big and beautiful and and like we had a room in the in the public library that I have pictures of us where we would lounge between takes, you know, yes, and we'd hang up my dress because it was so big we had to steam it out all the time. And we'd be in robes like lounging with the tapestries behind us. Like it was so nuts that we were allowed to be there, you know. And that went on for a while too,
write like at least a week, maybe more. I mean, so many different things have been so huge, going to Morocco, filming in Morocco, I mean I could go on. We filmed in the Sahara Desert on the camels.
I mean, it doesn't get much crazier than that.
It doesn't. And that was us at a little show about four women stomping around Manhattan, you know what I mean, anything as possible, It's true. All right, back to the show. Let's go. Okay, So Carrie and Miranda running Steve and Aiden is really sad because then these really cute girls Jessica and Susan show up. And this is after Carrie and Miranda. No Carrie, yeah, Karrie Miranda have hidden in the hallway, thinking like they've got to run, they've got
to hide. They're out there talking about us whatever they think. Of course the world revolves around them, but it doesn't because they're on dates, which is really funny, and those girls are cute, and then they're all like bumping into each other trying to get it's adorable, so adorable.
I don't think they thought they were adorable.
I'm sure they did.
They did look really good for having run into their they did.
But also the thing that kind of breaks my heart in that scene is Corbett. The sadness on Aiden's face. He basically doesn't basically speak like I think he says something like how are you Carrie, but literally there's just the sadness on his face is so powerful and well done.
It's broken.
Broken. He's not into that girl, do you know what I mean?
No?
And he probably like put up a fight with Steve to even do that.
Yep.
And yet of course that Carrie sweeps in and she's there, right.
But I thought it was really good, and I think Corbett in general is really good. I'm hoping someday he'll come on here and talk to me. Come I know, But and Okay, so then this is the big scene. And I love the scene for so many reasons, and I think it was so so well written. And I think also, like if you think about the trajectory, trajectory is hard to say of Miranda and Carrie. It's a crazy powerful friendship and the writing is never better.
No, that scene in the when they're trying stuff on.
The vintage, it's that.
It's almost as if they like clipped it from someone's life, and it's.
So good and it happens like kind of a surprise, do you know what I mean? Like it's not like anyone's like trying to start a fight or whatever. It's just that Carrie confesses to her. First she says, she says, do you want to do something on Saturday? She says, no, I have to work. And then she's like, no, I feel bad that I just liked my friend. So she says, no,
I don't have to work. I'm gonna go see Big and Miranda she's like, broke the camel's back, right, It's extreme her reaction, and then she's like, no, you know, I'm not gonna be here for another round of this, Like it's so intense, and Carrie's like what, like, you know inside just like I can't believe she's saying this to me, and and so it's so good, it's so good. And so she says, wake up, Carrie, how many more times are you going to go through this? He is
bad for you? Jesus, every time you get near him, you turn into this pathetic, needy, insecure victim. And the thing that pisces me off the most is that you you're more than willing to go right back for more. I will never say that's one of my friends.
No, And I think, like it's it's interesting though, because that I think is a projection onto carry of Miranda's own issues, but like it's also the wording. It's like, yeah, it's basically the worst version of how to say everything of like you're really fragile. Okay, now I'm going to say, you always make yourself the victim.
Because she doesn't take a moment. That's one thing about Miranda. Obviously, she's just from She doesn't take a moment to think about how could I say this more gently or lovingly? Right, she's just like and Carrie's like, you know cuts like you cut her? What I mean, she looks.
So hurt and when it's your person that like even more. That's what I have a hard time believing that I will ever find some man that I love more than I love my best friend Lily. Yeah, but I think that's what's really unique about especially Miranda and Carrie, is that like that is such a sacred bond. And now what those words just did was it broke it well for a second, just but like I think it can feel at least in those moments of.
When it feels very scary's dangerous.
You don't know how you're going to come back, for.
Sure, it's very dangerous. And that's why I think women friends don't fight like this that often, but also why I think it's so great to see them actually go through this. And also one of the last episodes that I've watched of and just like that, they have another fight and it's so great. It's after the birthday party, after Charlotte's birthday party in the kitchen. It's so great. And also at that point, Miranda's just talking about her flirting with the right and she doesn't see it coming
in there. Carrie's like, why can't I you know, I'm not doing anything, what are you accusing me of you know what I mean, it's super interesting, super interesting, two different snaps. Yeah, but they also know, I think at that point, because they've been friends for so long, they know they're going to be fine. But it is still dangerous. It's dangerous because it's too much truth, you know, and so much history, right, and they've seen so much of
what everyone has gone through. But I love this scene so much, and so they go and then Carrie goes right home and presses her you know, voicemail in the olden days type thing, and there's no message. And she thought by now, she says, I thought by now Miranda
would have gotten home and left me a message. And then later on she goes and calls her, and Miranda was just about to call her, and they're on the same page again, which is so great and so satisfying and so important, so much more important than the men, really, you know what I mean, totally. But she goes to this lunch with Big and then I didn't remember this at all, But she goes back to BIG's apartment and showers or.
Whatever, yes, and looks Stunn it's fantastic.
After the hair bounces back.
Makeup in his cabinet for sure somebody left something, or maybe Natasha less him gone.
And we find out Natasha's gone, and that Big has painted his wall red red, and that Carrie says basically like this red wall. It's a great idea, but we just don't really work, which is so sad, and obviously we know it's not true.
But that's also fascinating because it's similar to Charlotte's moment of saying, did you actually want to marry me?
Yes?
That's it's Carrie's having her big season finale wake up call.
It's so true and you really believe it. I mean, obviously we know what happens later, so we know that that's not the end. But in the moment watching it, I was like, wow, I would have really believed this. As a fan watching this, it was very good.
When he looked so good at the the Pond in that suit, it was like, look good at the suit.
I thought he looked better. When he's back at Allay, his hair is all soft. I like it when his hair is all soft. I know, I know that's fine. So wait then Carrie goes, oh, it's one of those really beautiful shots of her writing too, Like I love how the filming her writing has evolved into just like different angles and fans and you know, atmospheric.
They have to keep reinventing the wheels they do.
But they do a great job. They do a great job, so she says, later that night, I got to think about men and women in relationships, or more to the point, how women feel men disappoint them in relationships. Than a radical, almost earth shattering thought popped into my head. What if everything isn't the men's fault after a certain age and a certain number of relationships, if it still isn't working and the excess seem to be moving on and we don't perhaps the problem isn't the last boyfriend or the
one before him, or even the one before him. Could it be that the problem isn't them? But horror of horrors?
Is it?
Us?
Ah?
I love it so much.
But that is like the fact that that monologue took three seasons and many more years before that leading up to get.
To It's true. It's true, but it's so good, and I just think it's important to remember, you know, it's important to remember right well, it's accountability. It is accountability. And also, like I do think it's very very easy to think like women, we do one thing and the men do another thing, and like this Alabama guy can atually prove you wrong, right, Like you have to keep your mind open or.
Having your I think the fact that these women, especially at the diner, are constantly explaining for the other man's behaviors and why they're these women are in the right, yes, but you know, we only get so many of what did the woman do wrong?
Where?
Like I think that is Carrie's sort of like, oh, let's see what I've got going on here.
So then we go to the kiss and makeup party on the rooftop. I didn't realize we called it that. I guess we call it a kiss and makeup party. And again, where's the scene in between of how we got to the kiss of making I'm super super interested and I again I'm sitting there obsessing over Trey, which is hysterical. But then I say that I'm not going to I believe right, Like poor Charlotte, Poor Charlotte, she needs some help. She needs a therapist. That's what Charlotte needs,
you know what I mean. But she doesn't she doesn't get one. For some reason. We did leave out some of the all the carry with the roosters so insane. I just have to go back to it for a second.
So she, have you ever had chickens or roosters.
I have never, though I do have friends who do, and I have kind of want chicken.
It's like you would like have them in your little backyard.
Right, and I know people who do. Yet Okay, excuse me, but I did used to live in a canyon here that did have roosters that were like grandfathered in, and the roosters did wake me up because I would have I would fly home to get some sleep when we were working, when we were doing the show, because we were all night and we never slept right, and I would come home to my super quiet house up in the hills, and at five am, those roosters down at the bottom of the hill would start growing and I
would wake up and I'd be.
So mad, and so La was no longer the sleep city.
No, I mean, I'd go back to sleep, but yeah, they were. They wanted to get us up. I don't think they're there anymore, because I did. I lived there for like twenty years, and I think when they died out. I don't think they could get new ones, but I do have friends, and the stress is that you don't always know when they're chicks at their roosters or not right, so you're trying not to get roosters, and then you end up with roosters and then if you want eggs.
You need a morning personal situation.
You're not I am now because the kids and the time change hasn't helped, right, So we're gett when you come back down early. Yeah, yeah, but that's okay, that's okay. I've become more of a morning person and it is nice and like you can get some stuff done in the morning. You feel productive, you do, you feel productive.
So Samantha is in her new apartment in the meatpacking District, which I think we saw her in previously, because she gets sick and the light's coming in and she's trying to close the curtains into the curtains break and she wants someone to come help her. And she realizes this a couple episodes ago, that like all of her conquests or whatever are not necessarily going to show up for her when she's sick, which is kind of sad and heartbreaking.
It made me feel really sad for Samantha that past episode. So she's she's in her fabulous apartment and we all go over to have drinks.
I think, right, well, I think she'd had a altercation before. Wait.
No, she has a guy at one point there and then she leaves literally like she goes crazy this model. Yes, she gets like.
A obsessive water she dumps the water.
Oh god. But let's back up. So Samantha is woken up by a group of trans women on the street. I'm reading my nose right now. Who says and says you, oh yeah, no, no, I can't even read these lines.
Nope.
So there's some craziness happening down on the street, okay, and they're loud, and probably there used to not be people living there, right, you know, because it was the meatpacking district, and the meatpacking district was like butchers and things, that's what it really was. So it was probably an area where if you were a sex worker you could go and no one would be.
Bothered, and only your callers could from that, she says.
Who have driven across the Holland Tunnel. It's right there and it's easy. You just drive right over the Holland tune and you're there in the meatpacking district, which is all very real and I'm sure probably did happen, but I don't know why why we needed to have it happen in our show or whatever, but we do have it happening in our show. And Samantha is she decides it's very interesting. She says, I'm going to test my PR skills and talk to them. So she goes out there in that gold trench coat.
Oh to make nice kind of.
Yeah, but then when she turns her back and walks away, she kind of rolls her eyes. It's interesting.
I think she thought she could get what she wanted, yeah, because I think she well, and she is comparing them a lot to men in the episode, And actually, what it proves to me is that it's like interacting with trans people like you. You can't project some idea of what that. You have to let someone tell you who they are. And she thought she knew who those women were before it definitely did.
She definitely did. So she goes down to basically make friends with them and to try to reason with them, and she says, it's my new apartment and I'm unfair and you guys are too loud, and she meets Destiny China and Joe, who are very nice to her yes and say like oh okay, you know they get it. Yeah, well,
quiet down. And then the next time we see her, she's having sex with some like literally like a fitness model, Like, my god, do we have no idea who he is, what he does, nothing, But they're trying to have sex and he's into it, but she's distracted by the women in the street and she decides she's like obsessive and weird at that point, so the guy gets like.
What is wrong with triggered? Well, she you know, literally fills up a bucket and dumps it on them, which is such a TV moment, but it's also like it's funny because it's like it didn't matter who it was or what it was, but it was the thing prohibiting her from having sex. So orgasm, well, fair, right, and I guess that's the top of the list for her orgasm, so mean, you know.
But I.
Think that then it becomes this sort of cat and mouse game of you know, the egging of.
Oh that's crazy. I didn't remember that at all. So then that's Destiny. So cut to she throws the water out and it takes someone's wig off. Must be Destiny's right, yes, And so then Destiny comes back and throws eggs in her window, and Samantha, really not the smartest move, opens the window. What was she thinking? And of course gets a big egg in the face, which she does deserve a good tea.
You know what? I think that that was. That was for the entire community. The only time I'll speak on behalf of the entire community is the egg.
I agree, I agree, because she wasn't smart number one number two.
And she deserves She said the teaseler many a time. I think she really does. Was that something that was like a word that was floating around?
I think it was. I mean, it's hard to remember because I wasn't in that storyline, right, so I didn't like sit down and think it through, But I do remember. I feel like there was some kind of some kind of cultural awareness beginning. But it was like baby baby steps very much where some how it seemed okay to just be like the tranny, like casually just say it right. Like somehow tranny seemed more friendly than saying, you know.
A transsexual transsexual, which would have been more mis gendering straight up, which is what that was a lot of that, and a lot of these like allusions to But I think that a lot of it was the writing. I could tell it was for the comedy they wanted, Oh yes, the jokes in the top, and I think during that time people were probably laughing at not with Do you
think I think they were? I don't. I mean, I imagine people during that time watching it, maybe very you know, liberal people watching it and being concerned, but I can't imagine that level of show, with that big of an audience doing something that would upset like it didn't seem wildly upsetting at the time, I assume I don't.
Think it seemed wildly upsetting because I don't remember being upset. I just thought it was so rod and over the top and now a shade obviously now, but even at the time, I just thought it was like one of those times where occasionally, and I think some of times, it's because the structure of the show, right is like you have a storyline, B, storyline, C storyline, D storyline right, and they can't all be serious, right, and they can't
all be in depth because there's not time. Even though this episode is longer, then.
We get a lot in it.
There's thirty four yeah, thirty four minutes, whereas most of our episodes were twenty two, which is crazy because we get so much in there. But that was definitely the broadest. Like we've got Charlotte kind of having a very kind of real storyline, not funny at all. Carrie not funny at all other than I mean when she falls in the pond. I don't know if it's funny how, but it's like a lot obviously. And then I mean I think I laughed out loud. I think Big made me
laugh out loud. Someone made me laugh out loud, which is pretty funny also at this time thirty years later. And then we also have I do think they try to make the meeting of the boyfriends in the street comedic by bucking into each other. But then we also have the argument. We have a lot of dramas wearing so many things, so I feel like the supposed to be the funny. Yeah, Now, to me, I don't ever
think I thought it was funny, right. I don't never also think I had understanding of the deeper reasons that it was wrong. I don't think I had that either, right, But I think I was somewhere in the middle right at that point, right.
And it was also not your storyline.
Right, so I didn't have to But Delvin, do I think.
The hope that I have is that anyone you know, rewatching it now does get that cringe of understanding of like, oh, this isn't landing the way that this show obviously intended. But I also think, like my general hope outside of this podcast everywhere is that even if I might not be someone's you know, cup of tea as a trans person, that they find a trans person in their lives that
they can connect to over something other than identity. And I think that that's what's so important of just being able to say, oh, we should have done this different, or you know, obviously now we would want those characters
to be played by trans women. In this last episode, we were just talking about how a black trans person talking about this would be very different, right, and important, And I think I think what just makes me so sad right now in this world is how closed minded we've gotten, and that there are people, very famous comedians still making those same jokes that they were in Second City twenty five years later, that are on Netflix and and so I just hope that we can move forward
in the right direction. But my dad is like the sort of straightest, most macho football loving guy. But he does make four hundred cookies a week, very random fact wow, and cost them. No, he gives them out to people on the streets.
That's incredible.
Yes, But he was talking. He was talking to me one night about he was like, you've shown me One of the things that I talked to him about was like he was he was like, I'm just so scared that your life is going to be so hard. And I said, and he thought that when I was a gay kid even that my life is going to be so hard. And we've seen gay marriage come so far, and you know, just gay gay culture and has changed
so much in the past twenty years. And I told him, I was like, my life in twenty years is going to be so much safer and richer and nuanced. This is the most nuanced episode that I can think of, at least for me. And I really really hope that we are looking forward to the future and trying to make the changes now.
I agree. I mean, I think and that's the other thing I think about. I mean because like for me, certainly, I can't count all of the different trans people that I know. I know so many in so many different stages of their lives, which is amazing and so.
But I'll just say having support from someone like you makes me feel like less of a problem in this world because I think, you know, I know who I am so well. But then when the especially the women that I've I've looked up to my whole life, say I see you for who you are, I stand by you, I support you, it makes me feel like I'm going to be okay.
I'm glad. I mean, I wish that we could somehow, you know, blanket the world in that. You know what I'm saying, because because we want everyone to.
Be okay, but the but the world wants to make someone like you scared right now to support trans people them. Wow, I love you.
Oh my, I'm not going to do that. No no, oh wow. This is like we're not going backwards. No no, And that's why I kind of want to keep making the show.
So you have to find your way, yes, tell your story and it's messy at the beginning, oh my god, and the like if we're thinking about I've never compared my transition to and just like that. But like, you've got to find your footing. And a lot of people judged me at first, and even some of your viewers might be like, oh, isn't that that girl who'd X, Y and Z. But it's the awkwardness of finding life after you know you've lived for so long in one
way and trying to rEFInd. It is awkward and messy, but in its earnest and that's what.
And it might have moments of cringe.
Yes, oh my god, I'm cringe dot com.
And it's so funny to me the way that the world talks about cringe now, like that it's somehow avoidable. Yes, it's not avoidable.
If you're living, and it's suppressing so many young people's desires through creativity. There's so many young people that would be making things right now, but they're nervous with their friends. Anything.
You can't be nervous about that people. You guys go out there and do stuff.
Post the video, write the song, fall on your face.
Oh my god, right, yes, yes, I know.
And you've got kids, so it's like you are trying to make sure they're walking through life. The way that you would want them to.
It's true, and I mean they are, and because a lot of the kids people that I know are are young people who are trends. And then also now we have people who are finding the strength to come out and be their true selves now even later at life because the way the world is changing, even though it is this very herky jerky, We've got people moving forward.
We've got people not moving forward, potentially going back. But you know what, we're not going to be with them, and hopefully we're going to help them at some point. I'm not sure how, but you know what I'm saying, We're.
Going to get there.
We're going to get there because we're all moving forward. You know, I can't believe that. I do believe that, and I believe that partly because I know so many people that I cannot. I cannot allow them not to be whole and happy and safe.
Thank you.
We have to, you know, do what we need to do to make that happen.
Yeah, it's just sad that that is up for debate.
It is, it is, it's it's it's shocking.
But if it's any consolation to you, me being here and getting to meet you, today and seeing you on my wall every day when I wake up is like the greatest gift you could have ever given me.
And you're a gift to me. You're a gift to me to be here, to be yourself. I've been following you. I've been so happy to see your success. It's so thrilling.
And we're gonna get you on Broadway.
I don't know. I think you should take the Broadway ring.
Okay, Okay, you'll come, you'll come. Oh and if this comes out by the time, I'm going to be playing Anne Blin in six. I love Baway so much. It's really you haven't seen it, right, Okay.
We're going to get you here in New York. I'm into it.
It's eighty minutes. I love an I love An In and Out. Oh that kind of show. I think one act is all we need these days, by places to be, people to see. And I think I'll be the first trans person to to take on the show. And it's it's little things like that that I'm not an activist and I don't see myself, but that's the kind of advocacy that I'd like to do.
Absolutely. I think this advocacy can take so many forms with the animals.
Absolutely absolutely love seeing you go to the I want to go there one day.
You should go, so healing, so wonderful, so great, so great, so great. I haven't been in a little while. I miss it when I haven't been. Before the kids, I used to go like twice a year, which was wonderful.
Have they gone yet? Have the kids gone?
They haven't gone yet, partly because the time change a lot. It's a lot for the seven year old. But they're dying to go, and so I keep trying to figure out a way, like how you.
Know what I'm saying, it's going to happen.
It'll happen for sure, because because they love it, and I have a lot of pictures up or you know the elephants, the baby who doesn't love a baby elephant? I know it's a great thing. Do you do you do? You travel a lot?
I travel all the time, and I used to raise possums in my kitchen in West Hollywood. Well speaking, yeah, I mean there's animals in this episode. I during the pandemic, I lost my job in the Book of Mormon the musical, and so I had time on my hands and I got onto kind of the underground possum rehabilitation circuit, which I can get you into if you're interested.
No, no, I have a little dog. Okays a hunters.
Yeah, but you know, possums fall in a pool, they got to call someone whenever this swoman's house raised pearl. But then you have to let them go unless they've either lost a tail or been they've hit their head really hard. So I had to let mine go into the wild.
Did she go?
She's she's out. Well, actually they only lived two to three years.
Possums only lived two to three years.
Yes cue when somebody loved me.
Everything was beautiful.
Pearl, lrip pearl.
Oh pearl. But but she got to live a wildlife because of you. That's amazing, I know.
And it was all started in a West Hollywood kitchen.
Wow. Yeah, I don't know anything about.
The possum, but you and you're doing something similar for the elephants.
I try, I try. I'm just to support for the real people doing it on the ground in Kenya. But I do love it. But advocacy can take many forms, and I think that sometimes just being present in the world is a form of advocacy.
At this point in time, you know what I mean, and find some money that you can connect to or follow that helps whatever version that you're looking for.
I agree, and I for me, I think a lot of it is about creativity. I think it's about expansion, Like who expands my worldview? That's one of the things that I look for. You think, Yeah, who makes me think? Who makes me see things differently? You know who's doing something that I wish I.
Could do, that can look up to?
You know you guys, you Benny Merribeth, like the young people that I can find.
We all need to do something togather one day.
It would be amazing. But I mean just watching you guys succeed, Oh, it makes me so happy, makes I love you happy. I love you guys so much. And you're just out there paving the way. You know, it's amazing. Thank you for being here doing it. We've had it since November and it came true.
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