Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte? And we are back with Jenny Biggs so much funder Yay? All right, Jenny. I want to talk to you because every different person that I've had on from the show, I ask about the beginning and I learned something new every time. It is amazing. So for you take us back nineteen ninety seven, nineteen ninety eight. Yeah, how did you come about being a writer on our show?
Oh? My goodness?
It was such a thunderbolt of luck, is what happened. So I had worked on a little CBS sitcom called The Five Missus Buchanans Okay with Michael Patrick oh or Actually he would come in one day a week as the punch up guy. He was super scary. He would walk in and have like his whole script of notes and you would be like, oh my god, this guy is so good. Yeah, and he's pitching all these amazing jokes, and then you would disappear.
Oh my god.
But obviously I made some kind of impression on it, maybe just my scared face every time you walk in. And when they were a couple episodes in, I got a call from Michael in on Sex and the City. I got a call from him saying, hey, listen, we're doing this kind of crazy show. I think you'd be really perfect to write it. Come and write an episode with us.
And you were in La.
I was in La and I had just finished up on Seinfeld.
Yeah.
I think I was trying to recall, but I think there wasn't an episode yet for me to watch because it was that early. So I think they probably sent me the pilot episode h and I script and I read it and I was like, my head kind of blew off because it was like, we've never what is this, We've never talked about things like this. It's written differently. I'm fascinated it's me. It's not me women in their early thirties dating.
That was me.
So I said, of course, I will do this fantastic thing. And Michael and Darren and I got together and started throwing around ideas and ended up with what became three as a Crowd.
Ah. Yeah, and that so that was your first episode, And did you just you were just brought on to do that one.
I was brought on to do that episode and then then after that to consult. So after that I was working on the remainder of the episodes, and then I stayed because why wouldn't you.
I'm absolutely and in my mind, because I have the most weird memories of the first season, like very hit and miss, like even just rewatching, I was like, I do not remember hardly any of this, which is rare, okay, but like for me, I don't remember you coming as early as you came, because I had said right away when we started the podcast, I need to have Jenny bix on, but I want to wait till her episode comes, and I'm worried that it's not till second season because
in my mind, you guys didn't come till later. But I think also because we weren't together all the time in the beginning in the way that we were later.
I could not agree more. I think what happened was we were all kind of separated, doing our jobs, trying to figure it all out, and it wasn't until second season that we started to actually all spend more time together on set. I mean, have such a wacky time that first season, like we were we were all over New York, we were shooting all night, oh NZ, and I know we will talk a little more about.
My episode in particular.
But we were always in strange places shooting that you never see again and that we're kind of janky, right. We definitely didn't have the money we did.
Oh my god.
We would stand on street corners and people come up and say, what are you shooting and we'd say, oh, it's the show called Sex and the City. And they'd be like, oh, real sex on HBO.
Everyone thought it was real sex on HBO.
I was like, no, it's not, you know, no shade to that fantastic documentary style show with actual set, with actual But people really had no idea who we were. And that was the beauty ultimately of working on that show is that for like a good two years, people didn't know we were shooting long before we aired. Which is the other thing that I had kind of forgotten was when we shot that first season, it wasn't on TV.
No, No, I didn't know what We didn't know what it would be.
No, we didn't know anything, and we I mean, I feel what I remember was the excitement of doing something different, Yes, and it didn't fit any mold of my previous experience. And I was a guest star on Seinfeld I was a guest star on the Larry Sanders Show. Very different but very fun. You know. I'd been around Melrose obviously, which was a very like regular soap opera, you know, many episodes, all of that, many cast members, all of those things, but nothing was like our show, and nothing
had the subject matter, but nothing had the style. Nothing was in New York in that way. The only thing that was in New York was either like a sitcom on a stage or lawn order or.
A cup show. Yeah, that's right, right.
There was no you know, glamorous women stomping around in heels.
No. And I think it's hard for you talk to you know. The beauty now is that they're younger women finding and men finding our show. But to try to explain to them how new it was in terms of the subject matter and women talking the way they talked, and even the writing style, like it felt like shooting a little indie movie, didn't it.
Yeah, every week.
Which is what great training. I mean as a writer, it trained me in a whole other way.
Interesting.
Yeah, did HBO, Like do you remember HBO's kind of notes or thought process or like what they would say to you guys?
Well, bless their hearts. They left us alone, really left us. It was kind of amazing to think about it.
It would not happen now, and it was just one more thing that made it kind of a lightning in a bottle. So we were doing this thing and God knows. And I'm sure you'll speak with or have spoken with some HBO folks. I'd be interesting to get there persons.
Strauss On, Yeah, Dress would tell you.
All I know is whatever notes we got were so legitimate and so specific, and sometimes it was things like, oh, we just need another scene shot out doors, like literally a production question. But they let us do what we were doing.
Amazing And do you feel because Michael was already there and Darren obviously was there because he created it. But I remember that sometimes that first season, because we hadn't seen the light of day, right, and no one did really know, including ourselves, what we actually were, and Michael hadn't really fully like he was in there but not
he hadn't taken over right. And I remember one time Darren would say like, we've got to be funnier, and then like a different week, you'd be like everyone has to be sexier, and I just be like, oh my God, what does he mean?
Like, what do you remember that kind of feeling totally and that I mean, that was so much harder on you all than it was for us. It wasn't applied to you guys.
I think I think we we It wasn't really away. It was me, you know, I felt a little more protected in the writing, but I could see the pressure that was being put on you all as performers, and it was a lot. I mean, I remember him racing out of a meeting that I was having with him and Michael because he was convinced somebody And I think it was like, I'm sure there's a coffee shop scene. Somebody wasn't eating a chocolate chip cookie correctly?
Are you kidding? Yeah?
Like it was there.
It was an eating note, like, oh my god, if I don't show them now, And you know it must have been he must have been editing, because he must have been watching something on film.
Do you remember him coming? Maybe you were not the problem. I hope I was not. I think I remember correctly.
It was such a specific kind of coninuity, like if you're going to do this, you have to eat it this way.
Wow, I know what I think that probably might have had to do it. And I have seen Darren since I started the podcast. I asked Darion to be on at the beginning, he was very busy writing good Then I saw him and I was like, Darren, I need you on the podcast because you created the show. You need to be in the beginning. He was like, oh, com'll come, but he hasn't come yet, so he's in trouble till he comes. But them, yes, he is in
the doghouse. I because we came from this crazy world of Spelling, which I've really been thinking about because when you look back at things, you have so many different thoughts and perspective on the whole thing. Spelling had so many rules. He had rules about how each character could wear their hair, and you couldn't change your hair unless you got previous written approval from mister Spelling. Wow joke.
Like the reason I know this is because one time I had to be in a convertible and I had my super long hair before they made me cut it for Sex City and it wasn't allowed to be clipped or pinned or in any way, and it was just.
Like, oh, that's so Spelling.
I know. Ellie wouldn't let me put it back in any way. I was like, how am I supposed to go on?
Because he knew that your blowing hair would be that that's the day.
But then like, how conton know anywhy.
I've got like a rat snash or everybody know it was gonna get brushed secretly, you know what I mean.
It's just a weird thing.
So like if I had a Brett, like like the set would stop and phone calls me, there'd be a Brett. A Brett phone call would happen, a commerce call whatever. So I think some of that bled over into Darren's thinking. But then I also think what happened and we'd have to ask him, of course. But once Pat came, you know, and really started to do her magic, which took some time because we had no money. No one knew what
we were doing. I look at the clothes the first season, I'm like, what are we literally like that?
You all looked adorable? I mean, it's adorable, it's so nice.
Not what the show became, no, I mean, like I talked to Molly. Molly came on, I'm wearing theory.
Suits right, it's hysterically right with tights. Yeah, black listen it was a different time. It really, it was a different time. We didn't have the money.
I mean, I was thinking about that in my episode when you go to the mask Ball and theoretically you're in kind of a mansion that, you know, one of those party mansions, and then suddenly you're upstairs in the jankiest little bedroom, like who has a little bedroom at a party mansion?
Set with those green wallsh has to green plants? Like when did Miranda have like an emerald green apartment.
We did what we had to do. We didn't have a lot of money, But.
I love that about it. You forget until you look back. And also like it begins on that like Grany grainy out of focus shot of Empire and Chrysler Villay, You're just like, can we see them?
Maybe?
You know, it's super interesting. Okay, so back to you. Okay, so you're here in LA, you go to New York.
I go to New York to shoot the episode. I think I was with the guys here for a little bit and then I went to New York and Nicole Hall of Center directory episode, by the way, also amazing, what an amazing director.
Amazing. I can't believe we got her I.
Can't believe it, and a delight as a person and so talented, and so I am suddenly on this set of this little indie film, standing in you know, my New York that I grown up in, right shooting this little gem of a bizarre show where women are allowed to say what they want and talk about what they want. It was and you loved it, loved loved every second of it.
So at what point, like in what point in terms of the writing of the first script were you did they say to you, like, you need to have experience with this, or you need to know someone with this story, or you know, the whole thing.
Yes, yes, you're talking about kind of we wouldn't and I'll just say it again in case your listeners have forgotten. But we had a pretty sacrisanct rule which which was really smart, which was that we would never write about something, especially something sexual in nature, unless we knew one person that had gone through it, because we didn't want to make it just like a weird purient like this week like.
We did reject some stories. I don't know if anyone's spoken about it already, but we had a couple of stories we went down the road with like in fourth or in the fourth season, we talked about doing a story about a guy with a penile implant, you know, like one of those yeah penis.
Do you see the ads for Oh I don't.
Did you see an ad forte? They're like, you planted? Did you?
God? Okay, the middle window into you.
Wait, but you're talking about like a surgenous pump.
See.
This is why we were right about it, because everyone's like, what what is that? Yes, and apparently there is like a celebrity that there's kind of gossip around whether or not they have one.
Well, is this new to everybody?
Yes?
So, but that was one where we said, you know what, we're not gonna we can't tell that story because no, we didn't know anyone we none of us had encountered such a thing, got it, it seemed. But but certainly at the time, and it's ironic right now that threesomes were kind of a thing people were talking about, and
now it's like such an accepted beyond. Now we're into poly memory and all the things we would write about now, which I wish, you know, we'll often joke like we wish we had the show now to write about this next version of things, and you do have Michael's shouse. You can different, but it's diffferent. You're not thirty and single exactly.
So people sometimes ask me why it's not more similar, and I like that would be possibly sad. That was.
Different.
It's a different time in life.
It's a different time in life. We're not thirty two, We're not anymore now that we look at.
But but threesomes were the thing we were talking about, and it was and you know what was fun about that episode in retrospect.
Too, is that it fit the theme really well.
And when we are able to find like a kind of sexual thing that also becomes thematic.
For our characters, right, it was perfect. So we had I think that.
Was the first show that actually successfully did this right for me because I've now.
Started at the beginning thing.
Because remember what we ended up with was her voice over would connect to everybody. It's the theme, right, so it would be like and then downtown Samantha was doing blah blah blah, and it would connect to the theme and Uptown Charles doing.
But that took a while to really get it going.
And it took I would argue, it probably took us into mid second season really figure out. I mean, we still had the talking heads in mind, which my talking heads were a little different, and I would argue worked a little better just because they were ads and they were shorter, and they were shorter she had we and we can talk more about the talking heads, but we definitely were It was a relief to let go of them.
Definitely did definitely.
Because they were taking up too much time from you all, Like we just wanted more stories with our main right.
And poor Sarah had to not have to turn to the camera.
Well that was a whole the breaking of the fourth wall, and it's hard.
It's I don't know how she did it me neither.
I don't know how she did it to me so seamlessly. She doesn't feel that way, of course, but like also like the last episode, she's in her apartment by herself and.
She turns and talk to the camera like who is that? Who is she talking to?
And also her voiceovers going, so she's already talking to herself but in her head. Like it's weird, but it's also kind of fun.
Yes, you know, and did it well and was very unique, But I think there were certain artifice things we had with the show to start that we were relying on and we was we didn't have to And that happens with a lot of shows. When you start you think we have to have this thing right, and then you realize, oh, people just want to watch the characters.
They want to Thank god you right, But think, od we had that freedom, Oh yes, where we didn't have to stick and you could develop this idea of having the theme. And at that point were they talking about things from Candas's book and column still or were you guys just like freely.
We were we were moving past that in the certainly in my episode, we had already introduced Big. We knew who Big was, and and that was really all we needed, the idea that Big and I should know this. And I'm I don't know whether in Candas's book, I don't think Big had a wife.
I don't think Big had an extro.
I don't remember that.
But that's a question to find out answer to you. But in this case we did introduce the ex wife, and I think was probably the only time where we did that kind of odda.
She was this ghost and she was in the bed with that, she was with them, she was on the.
Street it was great. It was really cool. But we never really did something like that again, right.
We tried stuff we were trying. It was fun, it was experimental.
THEA did Sir Jessica Carey levitates from Fifth Avenue in like the second episode.
I was like, what am I saying? I have to rewind.
I mean the stuff we tried is crazy, but we had the freedom.
Yeah, she's amazing, and we.
Trusted each other I think enough to go for it right right, right right, and we trusted you all to be able to roll with it. No, well that's a big deal, thank you.
So let's go back to the europisodes. So you're in LA and you're writing with the other writers that we never really met.
Well though I know it was only with I was really only with with Michael Darren and Michael.
Yeah, okay, got it, got it.
So the others were already gone, yes, because they were kind of just like they sent scripts in.
I don't know, well they were they were, Yeah, they were consulting I think for a little bit, but were not by the point that I was got that I was doing there.
So it's really just the three of us.
Sitting in a room, which and you're like the beginning of what would then become really our full the core core of executive producer writers you know, with us every day,
which people never really understood. Right now, you were very very much a part of the daily experience and very like we went to you about everything about every word, but also about costumes and you know, so many different things, which I think when I also look back on it, it's kind of so special and rare that you just don't have just one person, but you have this group that's involved.
It was really it was special for us as writers because I mean, I can only speak for myself, but having come through the world of sitcoms, we were very isolated from the performers. Like you would go down for run throughs, but then it would be like, oh my god, we have to go write some more jokes, rewrite a scene. And there was not this Nobody was coaxing us together,
nor was there a reason to be together. And this was a show where we all were a we were all a big group, and whoever was around on set, you know, if you had a question about something, you could come to us, which is amazing, what does this mean? Or oh my god, I can't wear the skirt, you know, and.
Like that you always wore skirts. Well, you were very good skirt wear. Oh, thank you. I don't know.
I had to, you know, find my way I wanted.
We all did.
But it was a place where we all worked together for the greater good. And I think that's what made it. And you all would have thoughts on the you know what was great was by the time we hit second season, you all very much knew your characters, so so it was you would say to us, hey, listen, I think I would say it this way or what if you know, do you know that I actually said that same thing
a couple of episodes. You know, there were a couple of times where we got caught interesting and I think that's all good.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's good because of the collaborative nature of it, right because you weren't you weren't even those of us, you know, we didn't have like I think Sarah was a consultant in the beginning, Sir Jessica and then obviously increased her role in the production side of it. But the rest of us had no credits or in that way. But we're very much included talked to in a respectful and inclusive way about what do you think you know? Do you like this storyline?
Like Michael would include us, Darren would include us. You guys, we could go to you guys with anything, And that is such a great situation.
That's the situation. I think all of us are still trying to recreate in some ways, you know, right, And that's not the problem. What's funny because Julian and Elisa, who were two okay, got a team of writers who came on in season four too, lady. When they came, delightful, so delightful. But uh now I've forgotten what I was about to say about when they showed up and can't remember.
I'll come back.
It's okay. The group, the group dynamic. We're all trying to get back to yes.
So when thank you when they showed up, they hadn't done as much TV as we had, and we kept having to say to them, you cannot assume this is the way things are. Don't assume it's going to be this way. Because it was such a special experience, and once you have gone through a bunch of experiences that aren't as great and then you land there, you kind of don't ever want to do anything else.
You know, well, thus us all doing and just.
Like yes exactly, which is such a pleasure. It's true.
I mean you had left us by that point and gone and done the Greatest Showman and sort of other things which we will talk about, but you know, and your your own thing, which I remember because you and Cindy at a certain point where you know, executive producers and like very high up in our in our whatever hierarchy. Not that that really made a difference because you were always so important to us, but it was so great when you guys did get these deals. We wanted you to just exist. Well.
I went away in season five and did my first TV show, which was great to have that opportunity, and then I came back in season six, which was perfect. So I got a chance and thankfully everyone welcomed me back of course open arms. Well that you know again it's we were family, and that.
Was one was lovely.
But I think also for us actors, you know, so much weird pressure was put on us in terms of the publicity and everything, and they didn't really understand, like they always thought that was our stories, right, which of course they weren't. That would be so awkward to be playing their own stories, right there were your guys the stories or someone you knew, which I don't know why we didn't just honestly tell everyone in the beginning. But you know, like back then you kind of felt like
you had to protect or somehow shield whatever. Now everyone's just very upfront about everything. But I remember always thinking, you know, we're the face, but we're support by this group of women. And then they thought it was only Michael and Darren, right, really you guys, you know, and like at one point I think we had six women writers.
We did never had six, but we had one too. We had five right close close close enough.
Because sometimes in my mind too, like you left, but in my mind you weren't really gone, you know what I'm trying to say, you know, you know what I mean, right right, So like it wasn't like I wouldn't look at the paper and be like, oh, Jenny's not listed here, you know, like you were always part of the everyone was part of the once you were in your Yeah, totally, which was the joy of it. Okay, So I mean many joys so much, but definitely that was part of it. Okay, So back to three, the crowd.
Yes, so you're there, you're with us.
I am filming your episode, filming crazy place, crazy places that I have only walked on in my life and never on a set, and I really you leave your Body's.
Unbelievable that I'm on the you know, Fifth Avenue sitting in the midst of at all with like you know, truckers yelling at us and not our trucker, sorry.
But regular people trying to do their jobs. And I get it, but we were blocking the way.
You know, it got a little easier as we got bigger that folks later.
But yeah, also remember how we would like take our big lights and like walking down the street to a different location, like we were so gorilla.
In fact, in my episode, in that first episode, we were so gorilla that we didn't the episode ended up being shorter. They thought it was going to come in shorter than they wanted, and so we were shooting on the street. And I think it must have been your walk and talk with s Ja that day we were on that street. My hair's too shiny, I mean that's I mean, you also delivered it before that.
I say, how well do we ever know the people that we sleep.
And that's really the essence of the episode. But we were there standing there and I remember Michael or Darren coming up to me and saying, I have to write another scene. I need another scene. Oh no, we have to have it in this location. We're on the street, you know, because it had to match with what we had available production wise. I was like, what can you imagine by the way, that happening any other time? But first middle of first season now, and I went away
and wrote this scene where Ken runs into Samantha. Oh yeah, and that was good and the wife yeah, but I wrote that like no one saw it was like does anyone have to approve this?
No, We're just gonna shoot it. I was like, wow, okay, I've never heard of such a thing. Oh great, and we shot it. But that was good.
That was the kind of thing we could get away with, wow, which we would never you know.
Wow.
So okay. So after that first episode, so we were picked up for thirteen, then we had to go on the air and everything. I don't really remember when we got picked up for more or whatever, like what was your my memory?
I know we weren't picked up. Basically, the season ended and no one knew what was going to happen because we didn't know if there be a second season. And so I came back to LA and I was like, I guess I need to get a job and so, but I didn't want to take a job where I would have to then leave if we got picked up. So I ended up consulting two days a week on Dawson's Creek.
Which was so much fun. It was so nice.
It was peak nineties and so peak nineties that Mike White and I were the two consultants. Oh my god, we had a blast. I love Mike to this day, a dear friend.
But it was really insane, insane wow.
And then and it was also kind of peak Dawson's Creek time too, And I had not really watched the show, but I really enjoyed. It was the first time I had written a one hour show, so I'd gone from sitcom to writing The Sex and the City, which was like so outside the box for me, but real people talking. And then I go and write a one hour that's more one real people talking. And then the show got
picked up. So I think we didn't air. Gosh, I should I should know this when we aired the first season, but I know that we certainly didn't know that we had a second season until the end of the summer at least.
Wow of that time, I think we are the first season, like June of ninety eight, right, And I don't really remember. I think I just assumed, in my very Charlotte type way that we were going do you know what I mean? I don't remember anxiety. I'm not thinking it would go do you know what I mean?
I didn't think so. I mean, I really felt like this kind of has to be a thing.
Yeah.
If not, I don't know what to believe anymore, because we were so special, right, And then we did get picked up and it was amazing, But then it was still only right here.
Did you guys have a writer's room here?
Yes, we did? And Cindy When did Cindy came? Mid to late second season?
Oh? Got it.
So it was just Darren, Michael and myself.
Unbelievable.
It was unbelievable and hilarious because there was a lot of me explaining certain parts of the female anatomy. There was definitely a moment had to draw on the whiteboard.
And I don't have to.
All I'll say is Darren kept saying there's a part of the female anatomy that's very important for female pleasure. And he kept saying in this thing, and I was like, it's not there's no in. You don't go you definitely don't go in it. You don't go in Darren, And so I did. I'm proud to say I did. Draw.
I was so glad. Yeah, it's probably the best strong I'm very bad, but it was very specific.
Oh my god.
So there I got to teach him a little something. So there really elements of discussion.
Of I'm so glad you were there.
I'm happy to have done that. Yes, we're all female.
You gave the service, you provided service for all of us. I appreciate that.
So then so we And then I was second when.
We did like a lot of a lot of episodes, like at a certain point we.
Did wed yeah, or it felt like we did, right, No, I think we actually did. We kind of hit the ground running, and we did have one or two consultants that for that time who wrote an episode or two, and then Cindy came on full time and then it was the four of us for a long time.
I remember that either yeah, which is amazing and super interesting I mean, I remember that at a certain point it grew right, but like to me, I was just so in it, you know. And that's the thing too, like rewatching is so fascinating. So many things I don't remember then weird random things I do remember, like, for instance, in the Masked Ball, right, there's a dress I'm wearing. And this was when, you know, we were shopping at Bloomingdale's.
Molly reminded me and Century twenty one. You know, people were not lending us things maybe Sarah Jessica, but barely right, and they were shopping vintage and all of those things. And I remember that lavin I'm wearing like a lavender crystal dress, and I didn't love it in the first place, but Pat and I were just having a time, right because Pat wanted me to wear really tight things, and I felt very self conscios sometimes I'm wearing my own clothes,
like I'm wearing my own shoes with that dress. There are some clear looseight product shoes. I don't know why I bought these shoes. I think in my mind I was like, what would these very cool women in Sex and the City buy. I'm going to go to Prada, I was like an early product person, which I didn't remember, Like that's nineteen ninety eight.
That right, I still have those shoes.
See, that's why a product piece can last forever. So right, that's a second conversation for another time when you do you're you know, war fashion centric podcast. But I actually remember you wearing those shoes and they looked really good. But I'm like, why first of the nineties and there's a lot happening that shouldn't have been happening, so many.
Things, and now that's like so in it's crazy to me, Like it's crazy. But some of it I get, and some of it I'm like, you guys, don't bring that back. Don't bring to the low cut jeans by please Capris. Don't people Capris. I'm okay, you're with a low waisted No, the.
Low waist seems to be coming back again. No, not for.
It's fine, it's fine, We're not going to wear it. No, No, that's fine. That caprize if you're like on vacation.
No that's fine.
Yeah, but not they really don't look good on a lot of people.
No, it's true. Again, So that dress, that Lavenger dress, I remember there being a lot of stress about what I would wear to this thing. But also there's the theme which I love about the disease disease benefits, which is so true. I mean you could still like this is still going on in New York, Like if you went to every disease benefit, you could definitely meet some people. I mean for.
Sure, Yeah, it's a thing there go to the disease benefit.
I mean the same people for sure, and it's a lot of people. But I yeah, yeah, don't have the energy to do that stuff anymore. But that lavender dress, I remember a lot of stress about it. I thought it looked kind of like Mother the Bride ish, which I do still think, though it didn't look as bad
as I thought when I watched it again. But Pat, being the adorable Pat that she is, had been stressing about it and had come down to the wardrobe trailer the night before and steamed it out because she thought it was too tight on me, which is unusual she was in the opposite but it was like chiffon with crystals, right. She didn't want it to pull. So when I came back, it was like this, like mummo, like she steamed it and it had given it and I was like, what
on earth We're gonna wear like a lavender mumo. I was so upset. And then they had sown the darts in the back, which you see when I'm walking down the hall. Really yeah, they had sown the darts in the back so that it actually had more of a hourglass.
I remember, I do, yes, I remember.
That's why when you say it was a moomela, I remembered it because you know.
How they were amazing, right, even when we didn't have money, they were amazing. But yeah, no, I had a whole little.
The idea that.
You ever wore your own shoes insane, right looking back, I know, I mean.
Differing my whole outfits. Like there's there's like an argyle sweater that I still have that I Warren Carry's apartment in that episode we talk about our faults and I say, my thoughts, that's my own outfit. And then Darren had to take me out to dinner and say like, you need to let Pat dress you. And I was like, well okay, but you know she was. We were all these tight things and I just feel very self god ess and he was like, you just need to trust her, and I'm like okay, okay, Darren.
And also let me tell you how to eat a talk to the chip cooking going on.
I know there was a lot going on, but I also feel and we've touched on this a little bit, but I love your perspective, you know. I do think people talk about like, oh, how did the chemistry of the cast come together? And you know, we never had a chemistry. We we just showed up and clicked in whatever mysterious way that is. And for me, I think it's a few things, and one is the writing. You know, like we are not anything without the writing, like actors
are not. It's not our personality driving it. I mean, it comes together, but it's the writing. Right, So the writing is what was amazing in the beginning in my mind. But I also feel like all of us had strong and different personalities, absolutely, and that the mix of it create it.
Was a fission or frission, yeah which one both? Yeah?
Like it it And so I would kind of in a way disagree, like the writing can be there, but I think you all did something and it is amazing to think there was no chemistry. Read because even in the early days, like when I watch my episode right, which is episode eight, sitting in the coffee shop. You all are, you all are who you are, you all are doing it.
It's true.
Those are those are those characters already there, and that must have been I mean, I don't know if you were feeling that at the time. Do you think that kind of connection that.
You all had.
I think I it's interesting to think about, because, like I said, there's some things I meant remember, like the lavender dress, and there's some things that I don't. I just remember, like when I get myself, I think that I seem very young, like really weirdly young. I don't think I felt young inside, but I seem very young. And I don't know if it's the charlotteeness, right.
It might have been the Charlotteness, because I.
Don't in my mind, I'd already been through so much in my twenties. I didn't feel like a baby, but I look and seem like younger than them and more unformed kind.
Of I don't think, yeah, but I feel like that was who Charlotte was more than I think that worked for the character, but I also think the character it was interesting watching the episode again that she was when she comes in and says oh, he wants to have a threesome. She's already kind of intrigued with the idea, right, there is no rejection of it, which I think is
kind of It's amazing, not very Charlotte. I had a way she was just like I know, she's maybe way more open than I when you think of her a kind of archetype, right, yeah, in the kind of of it, And I'm like, wow, No, she was more just testing the waters, like he wants to do this.
I don't know, Jenny, I do all kind of crazy the first time. Oh my god, well you really.
Like I'm shocked every episode, like for instance, and we'll get we'll do our breakdown of the episode. But when I have the dream of the threesome, I'm thinking, like, I don't remember that I did a three sime.
I literally was like, am I about to kiss these people? Memory? Oh my god, I having such.
A panic watching it last night. But then I'm like, no, it's just dream. But I don't even remember that.
Like she's very surprisingly surprisingly open. Yeah you have, And that's what makes you fall in love with her is that she's open even though she has fears or concerns. She's not the one who shuts things down. She's always trying to figure it out, and in that case, she's very open. She's like, what do you think of this? And it's everyone else who kind of has very strong opinions about whether it's a thing or not. But I
kind of love looking. I was like, Wow, she really was testing water, definitely, because the.
Thing that I had remembered about the beginning and it hasn't even really happened yet though. I mean, remember when Carrie dates the guy who has a Classic six and wants to get married and have a baby, has the mobile and she's like, Nah, that's not me, and maybe you should date this one, and then I date him, but I don't like his china taste so hysterical. So she has two things that I don't really remember. One is her incredible choosiness, right, which I kind of remember.
But I just remember the didactic thing that hasn't really happened yet, where I have the book and I'm talking about get the rules and getting married, which those were the hardest, hardest, hardest scenes for me to do, largely because I had a long speech usually that all of them are just like looking at me, like, oh God, you know and rolling their eyes, and I, you know, it's very hard to learn the long speeches that you guys are right, because it's so specific and so precisely
timed and has to be done perfectly. Us out really really bad about them, so I remember them. And also that was so hard because it was so wasn't me right, So I had to really act and plug in like different things like what if I think about this instead of you know, getting married, or what if I think about that, or let's think about the southern women that I knew who were So you're trying all these different things to make it really deeper, right than just like an idea.
Right.
I thought that was all I did the whole first season, And in fact, I am ware you were.
You were shaking it, you're making it happen. You're out there and you're like, okay, I'll wink at this woman. I don't know. I was like, wow, I know, look at you. I don't remember any of it either.
It's so funny to see because it's so funny they like, I did that. That's my body. I know I'm up there. I know I'm there, but I don't remember.
You leave your body, Yeah, That's how I felt watching it as a winder too. I was like, I wrote that, Okay, I guess I did. I know I did, right, But I don't remember it in the way that I remember it when I wrote it.
It's true, and I remember that either, And that's the joy of rewatching it.
It is so lovely to rewatch it. And I will say the thing too about Charlotte. And you know, when they would Cosmo and stuff would do these quizzes about who were you, more people thought they were Charlotte, and so I think she was representing a lot of how certain women see the world like that, more traditional. I want to get married, I want to have as much of it all as I can. I want to work in my gallery and also have kids and all of that.
So I think I never saw you or the character as being kind of young or immature, as much as being kind of on the pulse of what most people were thinking.
Right, which they were great, which is great, which is great. And that's why her whole journey has been so interest amazing. Yeah, I mean incredible to play as an actor.
But we also did that. I mean, I'm sure Michael's talked about this too. Is like we always wanted to test each character and give them the one thing that was the hardest thing.
Oh and did you guys ever do that?
Charlotte and Charlotte got some tests, man, I mean really all of us, because if you talk to any of us, everyone's like, oh, I was the one who always got embarrassed, and we're like, yeah, that's true.
But also I was the one who always got embarrassed, and then the other one will be like, oh but I always got embarrassed re Memora blah blah, and we're like, oh, yeah, that's true. You did get in there, really all of us did. But you know what, this was the greatness of the show, right, Like when people say like, well, why did Carrie do that? And Carrie made some bad decisions, we would not have had a show if she didn't.
Right, she's a person. Yeah.
And also this is the hard stuff, trying to figure out who you are and what you want and you have literally every choice available to you. That's also the joy of New York City, especially at that time, out of all the places. I mean, I do feel like now it's still somewhat true, right, Like, if you want to test yourself and find out on the Moorgat Board of Life. What you want go to New York City.
I hope that's I think that is still true.
I do think it's still true.
I do.
I mean it's different now for sure, but I still think that New York is like a beacon call to people who are kind of ambitious and or.
Exploring, exploring figuring out who they are. Yeah, which I think is a great and that's what I mean. It was, And we always said this when we still do that New York is the fifth character the show. And that's how it still feels, is that New York was a grab bag of magic and danger and.
It's sexy and it's gritty.
Anything can happen, anything can happen, anytime, and we took advantage of that.
One of the things that people talk to me, because one of the reasons I wanted to do the podcast is because we've had this incredible fan base for all these many, many years, and now we have all these new fans from Netflix and whatnot, which is amazing, of
course and fascinating generationally. But one of the things that people talk to me about, like my experience of walking around in the world with people having watched us all this time, which is so amazing, right, And there's so many different storylines through the years that people talk to me about, and it's always super fascinating which things they remember, which things connected with them, how they talk to me about it. They often cry, which is so sweet.
You know, it's like so durable.
It's part of the reason I wanted to do this because I feel like it's just such an incredibly special experience in life that we're getting to have, you know, to connect with people still over these things. So one of the things they talk to me about, and I hope it's okay, I'm going to talk about this is breast cancer.
The breast canst I'm so happy to say, okay. Great.
So Samantha, as we all know, all the listeners know, had this incredible storyline. Was it season six only or was it five and six?
It was season six.
Season six, and it was a great, beautiful storyline. She did a sazeautiful and the Smith character, oh my god.
So incredible, so incredible.
And I look back on that, I mean, I can't wait till we get there to rewatch. But this is based on your experience, Jenny's experience, which was happening while we were doing the show. Yes, now, I don't know if you know this, but you know how we all
would go to work even if we were sick. This is pre COVID of course we would be just like I remember all four of us being sick, and they would call one of those set doctors and he would just go dressing dress doctor, remember doctor Field, and he would hand out Z packs, right, He would just be like, here's your Z pack, here's the Z pack. We would just take so many Z packs this season, right, That was just how it was. We had to keep going.
The show had to go on. So I remember one day and I don't know what season it would be, I'm sure you will know. And it was one of your episodes and I was in hair and makeup and I had a question about the dialogue. And I was like, you know, can Jenny come to the hair and make them talk to me while I'm getting ready because I have a question about dialogue. And they said, oh, Jenny's not here.
What do you mean it's her episode? What what it was unheard of?
And they were like, oh, Jenny's not feeling well, And I'm like what, Like I have a huge fever. I know.
I was like, what do you mean?
And I think it was when you had been diagnosed or we're getting divosed, but literally no one, no one told me. No one told me. Cut to It's Revlon Run Walk time, and Lily Tartakoff, the incredible sweet woman, asked me to host, be one of the host committee.
Where you go and it's this big thing in Times Square and there's just, you know, thousands of people going to do the run walk and you get up on stage and talk and I'm always terrified, but I was like, yes, of course I'll do it because they were doing such incredible research at the time. Right, So I go and all the writers came. I was like, they're just being so supportive because I still know nothing.
Unbelievable.
Then we're walking through Central Park, right, we're doing the actual run walk, and different ones are coming up to me crying like it's so amazing that you're doing this, and.
I'm like, well, I'm just doing it as a favor.
Wis and what's going on? Like I had no idea.
I have to tell you, that is a testament to so many things. I had the worst wigs ever known to man, like so bad that once I spent an entire day wearing one of them backwards, and I did not even know.
I do think that's how I finally figured out.
It was how I figured out. I don't even know.
Here I am in New York, the land of where you think you could get good wigs. I don't know, or I just didn't.
I don't know.
Maybe your mind was just not on the line.
I think my mind was not on it. But I will say that, and we'll talk about this Samantha storyline of it, that it was actually Michael's idea to do it. Like I was working on the show, but I was quite tired. But I would show up and we'd hang out in the room and he's like, uh, we're doing your storyline, like he just Jesus, And I was like, wait, what what? I don't know if I And it wasn't that I was uncomfortable telling the story. I was more like I was in it. So it was hard to
imagine to write about it. You were still still in it, still in it. I don't think I realized that either, But in retrospect, it was, I mean, what a miraculous thing to be able to do. There were so many miraculous things about my going and I am fine now, I've been fine for over twenty twenty even five years. Yes, amazing, But that HBO allowed me to continue to work and allowed me the grace to go and have my chemo and then come to work.
Wow.
And that to be able to write about the thing that's the most painful, whether it's like a bad date or going through cancer is a gift. Like then you get to put it out there and it's not scary.
People can relate. R you know, I felt like I was helping people. You were, but it helped me like to be able to write them now.
Of course, the way Samantha went through it was way more Samantha of course then me for me. And she was wearing the pink wig, she was owning it, she was and I think that was a great way for me to kind of live through her, to do it the way she would do it as opposed to me kind of crawling my way through with bad wigs. But but and Michael was a gift to me during that time.
How did you know, Like there was a point where I had because they were giving me steroids, like I blew up like a michelin Man and Michael so kind that he called it my cocoon of healing.
Oh so sweet as you that's adorable.
Might have been when I figured it out.
I mean I did figure it out at some point, but then I was like, how good what I figured? Everybody knew.
But I mean, I think it was more like because I do think that as close as we all were, we also had a mission, right. Our mission was like work, work all night, work all night, you know what I mean. And I think that Sarah Jessica. I think I went to Sara Jessica at one point I was like, Sir Jisca, what's going on?
What is happening?
And she was like she don't want any want to know, and she just wanted to work. And I wanted to respect that, and I was like, I'm so glad, but also like I feel I'm.
Not really sure that that was the case, but I think it was really respectful of people, not because I think also I certainly at the time did not want to be seen as a sick person.
I think that's what it was, and like not all attention, you know what I mean.
And I wanted to be the person I was, and of course I wasn't at that time in retrospect, but I wanted you have to do what you need, and being in that room it was, it was its own medicine. Being on that set, like to tell those.
Stories was because I wasn't really sure, because then I felt really bad that I hadn't known and that I hadn't.
Been my god, you holding onto this for a week.
About it because like also then like whenever I did figure out, like I didn't want to make a big deal that I hadn't known, because then I was like, I'm just really dense that I didn't know. I don't think like, I don't think anyone lied. I just think it.
Respectful, right, And they assumed I know that was likely, Like yeah, it was.
But then I was like, oh, that's why they were all crying at the Revlon run walk.
Huh.
I thought they were just moved by me, But no, I thought they were moved by all the people because when you are there, you're just like you can't believe how people are going through it, and also family members are there to sort of is like you know, I would cry every time I went right, it was a lot, but.
The fact that you were going through it at the time that we were all working was just incredible to me.
It was to be to have that show and to have the support of everybody while I was going through it. People don't have that in the real world. I mean, you get sick and easy, and there are not employers who say please, please keep working.
I mean I wanted to and they.
Said yes, please, God, yes, yeah, I get it. In a writer's room that said, oh listen, just lie down on the couch.
It's fine. You know, we'll go down to satin cover it. You know it was. It was really lovely. Now, mister crying anyway, you can cry, we can cry, we can laugh.
Oh yeah. But it is one of those things too, where I I mean, like out of all the different things that happened, and so so many things happen obviously, like over the years, but I mean, that is a very unique and interesting thing that you went through and then to be able to contribute it to the show. And that's why I brought it up. So that people still talk to me about this.
It means so much to me that it that it mattered. I mean, in retrospect, I never would have suggested we do it so I'm so glad Michael did that.
It was funny.
Just three or four days ago, I got an email from my surgeon, who I.
Hadn't heard from. I remember her, well, no, so right.
Doctor mcandrew's my oncologist who we used in her name, but we also used my surgeon's name, doctor Steiner. And he said his fourteen year old was watching sex and at fourteen a little young, wow, but fourteen years now, fourteen year old grandchild.
Okay, it's not young now, it's not young now, which is oh, God, bless all of you exactly.
And she heard his name and I was like, is that you? And he wrote to me and it's like, it means so much to.
Me that you gave me a shout out. I was like, you saved my life. That's amazing.
But also like to have it be on film, right, so that means that even like people will talk to me now I'm going to cry because you know, you know so many people I'm sure you do too now, so many people who've gone through it, and it's so great to have it there so that you know, people say to me like, oh, when I was going to I was, you know, finishing my chemo when that storyline came on, and you know, Samantha was such a powerful character and people had so much you know, like respect
and love for like her just her power in life. And to have her be the one who went through that was so amazing to watch and beautifully written, obviously beautifully acted. And they still talk to me about, Oh, I was going through it then and then people now because it's on Netflix, it's available to all people at all times. And it's just such a strong, strong testament.
And we're a half hour comedy show, right, It's amazing and they let us do that, yes, and you guys did it so brilliantly and it's still funny and still.
And heartbreaking and all of that. I feel like we were able to do that with a bunch of things, right, Like when you think about Miranda losing her mother, I mean that, God, Julian and Lisa so emotional and heartbreaking and yet like life affirming, right, because it's about friendships and who who supports you in events chosen family, which in the end we all say that's what the show was. I think it's about the four of you in the relationship. I'm saying you like you're the character I.
Am, I can't ever say the right names. I'm like, and then Sarah did this.
But I think because we were and that was the other thing that made the show so unique.
There weren't that many.
Shows that were that bordering tonally comedy and tragedy. And and sometimes you would laugh, you know, as Michael would say, like if you could laugh in the episode once and cry once, that's.
A great episode, which is amazing.
I like people now, I'll do it more now that they're streaming and you can binge and it gives some tonal freedom. But I think when we were still you know, on the proper television, HBO was really kind of the on the forefront of letting us do all the things.
Yeah, and that was okay.
It was okay to have those moments and not have someone talking all the time, Like just sit in a moment and look at someone's face and know what they were failing instead of it being joke, jok joke totally. So I think, you know, the cancel line was only one of a couple that we were able to do and get.
Away with Charlotte, you know, infertility.
The infertility I mean, and there's so many women still go talking about that. Yeah, I'm sure they stop you all the time and talk about that.
They do, they do. They also talk to me a lot about Judaism.
Well how about that?
I mean that was the big test that we wanted to give Charlotte was what if she comes up against someone like that, someone that you don't expect her to fall in love with, right, And it was the Judaism was only part of the whole package of this kind of brusque guy who's not He's the opposite of Trey, who was everything that she thought she wanted. He ended up being just a misfire literally and figuratively, I know, which is.
Still so sad, I know, I know, glorious at the same time, and.
Kyle was so so fantastic. I mean, no one else could have done it the way.
No, I mean that was the other thing is once we got going, you know, we did have our magic, and then the people that you guys chose, you know, to add to the mix were all so perfect and great.
Well, it also got easier as time went on because people wanted they knew the show, they wanted to be on the show, which is a great thing, which is such a moment a moment.
There were a lot of moments like.
That, so many moments. All right, thank you for going on.
I'm so happy to have been here.
What a joy, what a trip down memory lane, I know, And it's fun to take it, don't you.
We can do it again, We can do it again.
And I just want to thank you, you know, thank you. I'm gonna suit by you, guys.
I know, I feel so lucky.
I could not agree more. And I think we we as writers say this to each other all the time, is we were all so lucky, so lucky, so lucky to have this moment in time, to be there. And none of that has to do with any of the kind of accolades or anything that came with it. It was being able to be raw and honest and funny and real and be with each other. Yeah, and take that trip and make this thing and make this thing that turned out people liked.
It was amazing, and I mean we would have loved it anyway, you know what I mean. It was like Isaac on the cake going It was so crazy. It's still so crazy. So thank you, Thank you for all of your contributions, so so many. And also see I learned this whole thing. I didn't know that you were there so early with Jess Michaelen, Darren, Yeah, I love that. Thinking about that, the Spot postulations