Model Behavior... (S1E2 "Models and Mortals")

say about. This episode is super fascinating, though, So let me just kind of go back in time a little bit. I Charlotte only has one scene in this episode, and it's a really fun and funny scene that I do have a lot of memories about. And someone asked me, oh, did you remember that you only had one scene? And I didn't remember. And part of the reason that I didn't remember is that one of the things, and I don't really know if we're the only show who does those,

we probably aren't. But one of the interesting things about how we film, and this is still true to this day on and just like that, is that we crossboard two episodes at a time, so we're always filming two episodes simultaneously. And part of the reason for that is that locations in New York City are so expensive. So let's say you get a restaurant for the day. That takes you know, a lot of money. You have to

get into all kinds of arrangements. You have to arrange with the Mayor's Office of Location Management for parking and for all the trucks, and it's a whole big to do, right, So, if you get a location, you would divide it up, Like let's say you got a restaurant, you might film in front of the restaurant, and then you might also film a different scene from a different episode inside the restaurant, So you know, you're kind of cross purposing those actual locations.

So when you're filming, you're filming two episodes at once. Now, sometimes it gets out of hand, Like I remember one time, maybe season three of Sex and the City. Towards the end, we had all these unfinished scenes and we had I think four units filming, and we had to make T shirts, different colored T shirts for the different crews on the

different units and all the actors. We just had to run from soundstage to soundstage to do the different things that we needed to do to finish the episode like that was crazy times, and then just his past year on and just like that. I think there was a time when the call sheet had six different episodes listed for Charlotte of things that I had to finish. So this particular episode, I have a different storyline for the next episode that I was also doing, so it's not

like I was just sitting around the whole time. But I also didn't really remember that I only had the one episode and my thoughts on that, which, you know, I don't know if we're ever going to find out, you guys, why they tried to demote me, As one of our current writers said, because you know, the funny thing about the reaction, I mean, there's many funny things about the reaction to the first two podcasts. One is that a lot of my closest friends don't even know

the stories that I told you guys. They're like, what you know? And some of our current you know, very beloved crew members and writers and directors and everybody don't know that story. So everyone's just like, why what happened? What happened? I don't know if we'll ever know. I

really don't know. I don't know the answer to it, I feel when I look back on it now from the perspective of twenty seven years later or whatever, having read Candace's book, which was based on Candace's column, And the thing that's important for this particular episode to remember is that Candace's column in The Observer called Sex and the City was I believe, based in true stories that she was hearing and or participating in, but also hearing

around town that were true stories, right, So she wouldn't use the names. She might imply who they were, so that if you were, like you know, ran in this circle of friends in New York, you might know who the stories were, but you might also not know and just you know, read it for some interesting like social archaeology. I guess maybe I'm going to try not to say like so much, because I did see the comment from one of our listeners that I say like too much.

So I just said, like, I'm really sorry. I'm going to do my best. It's not going to be easy because I'm just sitting here by myself yaking, okay, but thank you for being with me and understanding. So Candace is writing this column in the nineties in New York City and she is writing things she's hearing happened, or was there for when they happened, or both or neither, I guess, but you know, that's the genesis of all

of this. So when I watched this episode, episode two, which was the first episode we filmed once the show had been picked up, I'm assuming that this really insane storyline about this character that Gabriel Mock plays Barkley film these models. I'm just going to go with the fact that this is something Candice heard about that happened and put in her column and thus ended up in her book, and thus ended up in our show because Darren Starr optioned her book, Sex and the City. So that's what

I'm going to go with. I'm going to go with the fact that they didn't just make this up or whatever for the show. I'm not sure because at this point also the important thing to remember for me is that the writers were all in Los Angeles. They did not come We did not know them very unlike how the show went on to develop, where the writers were with us every day. The writers were part of our lives. They were very close friends of ours, still are a

very close friend of ours. You're going to be meeting them along the way. They're wonderful, these particular group of writers. Some of them I would not know them if I saw them. If I ran into them and they told me I wrote an episode of Sex and City for the first season, I would just say, like, okay, I would believe them, because I don't know what they look like. We were in Los Angeles after the pilot, Darren, myself, and then strangely Sarah Jessica. This is a funny story.

I was renting a house at the time in a little canyon in the west side of Los Angeles, not a particularly popular canyon, and one day I had gotten a puppy and I was walking down the street and we are in the waiting period of waiting to hear if HBO was going to pick the show up, and they had I feel like they had eighteen months to decide something like that, maybe just a year. Whatever. It was felt like eternity. And I would call my poor manager Dave every day and be like, did you hear anything,

did you hear anything? Did you hear anything? And then I would call my lawyer Jason, and I would say did you hear anything? Did you hear anything? And It just went on and on and on the waiting, and sometimes I think I would call Darren Starr say like, did you hear anything? I wasn't close enough to Sara Jessica at this point to have her number to be calling a buggy herm, which is probably a good thing.

But one day walking down the street in this little neighborhood that I've rented a house in, and I'm walking my new puppy, and who drives down this empty street with Sara Jusica Parker in a rented Lexus And I'm like, hey, you know what I mean? And she's like, Hi, what are you doing here? And I said, I just rented the house over here. What are you doing here? And she said, oh, Matthew's here doing a movie, so I'm here with him while he's filming this movie. And I said,

did you hear anything? She was like no, and she didn't seem she didn't seem as anxious about it as I was. And I was like, what do you think is happening? You know what was going on? And she goes, oh, I don't know, you know, I don't know. And I said, what don't you wanted to be picked up? And she said something like yeah, but I could tell she was just trying to please me, you know what I mean. I thought, oh, no, Sara Jusica doesn't want to do it.

I don't know. And I do think now, you know, knowing her all these many, many years, that this was back to her kind of reticence to being committed to a show. Because, as I told you before, we did have these massive, in your long contracts, which is the norm for any kind of pilot. So for her, she'd been kind of just this, you know, journeyman actress in a way, like doing Broadway, you know, doing movies like Honeymoon in Vegas. Most actors don't really want to be

committed one to one job forever. So anyway, Sarah Jessica, I believe her nervousness was do I really want to be committed? Do I want to be tied down? It wasn't something that most actors like you didn't start to be an actor because you wanted to do one job for thirty years. That just wasn't even really a possibility. And obviously for us has turned into this incredible opportunity.

But never, never, never, never, never, never would we have thought of that at the time, I mean never, never, Like we were just wanting to be picked up for thirteen episodes. That was our dream. Like I remember Darren and I when we did get picked up, we used to make jokes about how maybe one day we could get nominated for a Cable Ace Award. That was the highest our hopes were. There's this thing there gone they were called

the Cable Ace Awards. They were just for shows on cable because at that point, no cable show had ever been nominated for an Emmy, much less one in Emmy. So it wasn't even in our mind that that could happen. But obviously it did later on happen, which is a miracle. There's so many miracles involved in our show. Anyway, back to this episode. So this episode to me is super fascinating for so many different reasons. So we have a different DP at this point. Her name is Maurice Albert Ti.

She's French, and I used to butcher her name all the time, and for any French people, I'm really sorry if I have butchered it again. But she was incredible, and we also have this really interesting director, Alison McClain. Now what I remember of the first season Okay, wait, I didn't get to the point that they did finally pick us up obviously. I guess that's obvious. So maybe like a year of waiting and then we get picked

up finally. I also think, and when I watched this episode two, I really really seriously think this that you know, it was a really different, different time in our culture, certainly in our entertainment landscape. HBO at that point was known for having boxing. Yes, boxing, that was their claim to fame, boxing and movies, right. That was why you paid the hefty price to have HBO cable pay cable on your television at home, because no one had iPads

because they weren't invented. It's crazy to think about, you guys. Crazy. Okay. So they had had a show called dream On on HBO, and on dream On every episode a different actress would show her breasts. That was just part of the show and it was theoretically to please the men who were watching HBO to watch the boxing. I believe, I mean, no one ever said these words to me, but this

is what I believe to be true. So I think when we came along, one of the things that I think is super interesting to think about for the first season. Nothing had aired yet at this point, and back in the olden days, we used to put a show on

the air and see the reaction as it went. Like if you were on, say, for instance, a multi camera show, you would start filming, they would come on the air, you'd still be filming, right, so you could kind of change and shift based on the audience reaction to things. Back when we started, we filmed the whole thirteen without anything ever being on the air, which was really unusual at the time. Now with streaming, people do it all the time. But no one knew what we were doing.

We didn't really know what we were doing. I remember that someone made, probably production I guess, made a hat for us to start. It was like a welcome, you know, a welcome you get like swag right in the beginning, and it said sex on the front of the baseball cap. Back of the baseball cap it said and the city. Now.

I wore this hat all over Manhattan. Okay. So I remember being into Starbucks one time with his sex hat on, and some man is ahead of me in line and he turns and he's like interesting hat, and I'm like, oh, yeah, it's a show. And he said, oh, and I said, you know, it's a show on HBO. It's a new show. He said, are you on it? And I said I am, Yeah, I am. And he said, oh, is it Real Sex? And I was like, no, there was a show on HBO in the wee hours of the morning, you guys

literally basically like porn. Okay. I only saw it once, and I was like, what, Oh my god, So this man in the Starbucks thinks that I, personally Kristen am on this show called Real Sex in the wee hours on HBO. And I didn't know what it was at the time, but I was like, no, no, it's a comedy. And he was like, oh, it looked like he didn't believe me, So I kind of quit wearing that hat. But these this is where we're at at this point, right we're just kind of at a vacuum, you know,

so we're operating in a vacuum. We're trying to figure out what we're doing. All the writers are back in Los Angeles. Writer Darren had had a writer's room back in LA which is kind of you know, like how writers work, they have a writer's room, they pitch ideas. I'm sure they were using Candace's book. Maybe Candace was involved, I don't know, but they then they have the scripts, and then they already have the scripts when we come

to work basically or the scripts are primarily done. Michael Patrick King is the person that we will ask about this because Michael Patrick's King. King's name appears on this episode for the first time, hallelujah, and we get to talk to him very soon. And man, the list of questions is going to be long, you guys, I mean so long, like things that I literally am. I feel like I've never seen the show. When I watched these early episodes, I feel like I don't remember this. I

don't know what's happening. I'm fascinated. But wow. So Michael can hopefully answer some of these questions for us. I'm sure that he can, and he is on. His name is on, not as a writer Darren wrote this episode, but he definitely is on as a co executive producer. So that's super interesting. So this episode, Hey gosh, where to begin? This episode has so many fascinating, fascinating points to it, which you know, I really seriously need to hear all of your feedback on it. Because of two reasons.

Number one, how does it seem to you if you've seen it, like in the last couple of years, for instance, does it seem really shocking to you in terms of this storyline of men who only date models, And then there's this one and they're they're kind of like, you know, unembarrassed about it all, you know, like, yeah, of course, you know, I just love beautiful women, you know, like

it's very interesting. And then also there's this one particular character, bark Lee, who filmed these models that he's having sex with secretly and tells Carrie that this is his real art because he is also a painter. He's splashing some paint and you know, like kind of in a slightly Jackson Pollock way but not really on a big canvas

with Carrie talking about models. And then he's like, but this is my real art, and he shows her this wall of like super old fashioned, like nineteen sixties televisions, and then shows Carrie the video of him having sex with these different women who are models, who Carrie says, it is like the entire fragrance section of Vogue magazine, and you know what on earth I mean? I Ah,

I'm just still in Shock. Obviously he would be in jail if this happened now, which you know, this is progress, okay, But also Carrie has to really be like so kind of game, like she just sits there and she's like, oh, you know, And I just wonder what on earth Sir Jusica was thinking. And I'm also wondering what on earth

Gabriel Mocked was thinking. I mean, he gets, in my mind so much credit because his likability factor is so high that he somehow makes this character likable almost I mean not really, because no one doing this could really be likable, but like you really are. You're kind of with him and then you're like, oh my gosh. But like then we see him again at the fashion show and Carrie's like, hey, you know, like it's really fascinating.

And I honestly think if it were not Gabriel Mocked to play that character, I just don't even know how. I just don't even I just can't even picture it even being remotely palatable in any way. So credit to you, mister Mocked. I can totally see how you have a very successful career on suits and all the other things. I don't even know, And I really wish I had gotten to work with you because you were great, but wow,

I'm sorry you had to play this part. You can tell how I feel about this, this character and this storyline, and I just also feel for Sarah Jessica and I just can't wait to ask her, you know, what on earth were you thinking when you had to do this

and be fine with it? And what I think about it is that one of the things I think as a kind of a thematic idea of watching the beginning of the beginning of the show is one of the things that we were struggling with, though I don't think we would have had the words for it at the time, was whose gaze is this story or show for and or by? Is it the male gaze? Is it the

female gaze? Are we trying to be somehow filling this area that HBO has carved out for itself of having like kind of funny and slightly titillating shows like dream On. Are we trying to do that for the men viewers? Or are we trying to make a show about strong women navigating relationships in New York City, which obviously is we turned into Thank Goodness, But at the time I

don't think that we really knew. And part of the reason I bring this up is that coming up in a couple episodes is going to be a storyline where Charlotte is in a situation that I saw happening one way and the director saw happening in a very very different way. And I ended up having to lock myself in a dressing room and call my manager and it was like two am. So Michael Patrick wasn't there, Sir Jessca wasn't there. No one was there to help me, and I just had to like hide and call my

manager and be like what I do? What shud I do? What's happening? And it was very similar the more active as this storyline that Carrie finds herself in terms of like something that normally I think you wouldn't see on television, right. I think that was kind of the thing too, Like we were trying to push the boundaries, and I feel like Candice in her column was also like trying to push the boundaries, but investigate, like what is going on here? You know, can women have sex like men? You know?

What do you make of modelizers? You know? Is it worth trying to like push through that with a man let's see you meet a man in New York, which could still happen. Okay, these dudes are one hundred percent still there. I mean there are some famous ones. I am not going to say their name. I know you all know who I mean. Like, I think it's really fascinating and I don't know that it's been answered yet, Like why, like why why would a man only date models?

That is interesting? Okay, is it, like Carrie says about the status, you know, is it making them feel stronger, more powerful better that they have kind of a trophy

kind of person on their on their arm. But I also feel like there is this storyline kind of uh sub subtext going on, or actually I think we actually say it in the episode of like that they're not that bright because the whole storyline with Josh Pace, who's so funny as Nick, who is the main modelizer of the episode, who takes Miranda on a date because his friends gang up on him and tell him that they want him to bring a woman who can actually have a conversation, which is kind of funny, and so he

brings Miranda and then she finds out and then it shows these beautiful women that he's previously brought and they can't even really converse with his friends who are not models. Right, So it does kind of continue on this kind of idea that the beautiful women can't be smart, which is not fair either. Right. So, like we've got some different things that we're toying with in this episode, which I think are fascinating, but also I don't know that we

go deep enough. I think that's I think that's what I think. I mean. I love these two beautiful women because we're still in the talking to the camera phase, right. So at one point we got cut to a restaurant and they're two beautiful women, and one of them says, oh god, I was hopeful for a second. She goes, you know, I mean people just don't think we're smart. And I read all the time, and I'm like yay. And then she says, I read sometimes a magazine from

cover to cover, and I'm like boo. So, like, you know, this whole episode for me was really up and down, really up and down. Now let's cut two for a second. We now have the transition happening of Sir Jessica's hair. It's brown in the pilot, which I personally love. Maybe selfishly because obviously I'm a brunette and she's now blonde, but it's not as blond as she ends up, right, it's kind of in transition. She's got like really light

highlights around her face. I think it's so adorable, and at one point she has ponytails and it's so cute. This is when we get Pat Field as our costume designer, so you don't totally see Pat's influence straight out in this episode, and I remember it being very much a pro right, like Pat, I had never really done a television show. She does not think like a regular costume designer at all. She thinks like a fashion designer, but

also like kind of an avant garde fashion designer. So like, for me, in one scene that I'm in, I'm wearing my own clothes. Okay, now they're not good. All right, They're really not good, and I'm sorry. I apologize, And very soon in this in real life, Darren takes me out to dinner. Maybe these two episodes or maybe the next two episodes. I'm not sure, because I'd started going

to my fittings with Pat and it was stressful. Okay, I don't know how else to put it It was stressful for me because I came from you know, more traditional theater and TV and more traditional costume designers, and you would go, you would have a fitting in a costume room at a studio or you know, wherever you were filming, and there'd be closed there and you'd try them on.

Pat did not work like that. I remember going to stores with Pat and Rebecca her assistant slash girlfriend, slash wife, and Mollie Rogers, who's still our costumes that are now was also around, and we're going to talk to Molly soon and I cannot wait. Okay, I cannot wait, because she was around for all of it. But it was a process with Pat. And I remember going to stores and you would have a stack of cash in their

hand that they couldn't hold in their hand. It was a big stack of cash, okay, and they'd carry it in a bag. And the reason I remember this is because at one point we left it somewhere we had to go I can get it. I mean, like what on Earth? Alright? One on Earth? It's so crazy to think about, but like we would go to like Burgdorf and I would just be like, uh, just be just so riddled with Anxiet. We'd be looking at all the you know, Dulja Gabon and whatever, and I didn't think

I could wear this, you know. And also we didn't really know who Charlotte was. Charlotte. As I said last time, when you read the book of Candace's column, she's not formed, she's not cohesive. And later on I think Candace either told me or said in an interview, I have no idea that she. Charlotte was based on numerous different friends, so it was really hard to tell, you know, who

exactly is Charlotte. Like, part of the reason I think I only have one scene is that, you know whatever, this idea was to make me a recurring role instead of a series regular role, which I probably should have explained in more detail because there are some whacked headlines out there, which I find so frustrating because I just want to come on here and talk freely to you guys who loved the show. Ah. I somehow thought that if it was me talking that they would not misinterpret

what I was saying. But I guess that that was naive. A little bit of Charlotte happening here because there's some very strange, first strange headlines in the world about what I said last time. So I hope you guys are just here with me. I'm going to try to explain

the contract thing a little bit more. Basically, the big contract that you have to sign before you test for a pilot is very negotiated, very lengthy for seven years because they want to lock you up because if you are on a show that turns into a hit, that's obviously incredibly important for a network, and they need to keep the players you know, available to them. Right. So, back then, especially pre streaming, this was very important. So when they knocked on my door and said, oh, we

have this, this paperwork you need to sign. Had I signed the paperwork, it would have made my big seven year contract null and void. That's why I didn't sign it. So it's not that they only paid me five thousand for the pilot, which I think is some headline. I don't know. That's not true because I did not sign the five thousand dollars paperwork, right. I was like, no, I don't know what you're talking about. What paperwork? What I left at home? Oh my god, I did a

lot of acting. Okay, there's a lot of acting in my trailer about that paperwork. I knew. I knew that it was a risk because clearly there was some thought that maybe Charlotte wasn't integral to the story of Sex and the City, and I felt like she was. And I'm, you know, grateful that I had that confidence. I don't know why I have that confidence or had that confidence, but I'm very very grateful that I did. It came

from above, I guess, I don't know. But they basically would have only used me when they felt they had a storyline, I think, is the point. Right, So recurring means that you wouldn't you were not booked for all thirteen, So I would have gone home to LA and waited for them to call me and say, like, oh wait, a storyline for you in episode five or whatever something

like that. Right, So, like when I see myself in this one scene in this episode, which I didn't even remember at all, but when I see myself in this one scene, I'm like, Oh, they did not know what to do with Charlotte, which I also from this vantage point understand because she makes no sense in the book. Really, you don't the whole wanting to get married her coming from a more traditional background and wanting to recreate that

her going to Smith. She's from Connecticut. All things that we know about Charlotte now, we did not know that then, so she was not formed. We didn't know how to dress her. I remember being with Pat and Rebecca in one of these stores and They've got this beaded dulce tight wiggle skirt, as Pat would say, and I was like, I can't wear this, and She's like, yes, you can, and you know she was right. Of course she was right.

And so at some point Darren Starr takes me out to dinner and he says, Kristen, you have got to let Pat Field dress you. You've got to just do what she says. And I'm like, okay, all right, I'm just, you know, nervous. I don't know these clothes. I just I don't know if I can pull it off, you know, which was all totally true. And he says, doesn't matter. You know, she is gonna dress you better than you're gonna dress yourself. And I was like, oh, okay, you

know sure. So when I see myself in that episode wearing my own outfit, which I believe I went out and got at Fred Siegel, which is also kind of adorable and funny in so nineties, any of you who are my age remember Fred Siegel and how that was like the spot for all of us people in Los Angeles to go and spend our money. I just think

it was a whole process with Pat. And when I see Sarah Jessica wearing the incredible dress that she wears to the fashion shows, like a black dress with these kind of silver jewelry chain pieces that hang off the back, oh god that she ends up with them up Derek in which we've got to talk about Derek. Oh my gosh, you guys. So she ends up she goes Okay, backtrack to the episode. So we've met the Gabriel Mocked character. Carrie's trying to do her research on modelizers. She goes

to a modelizer to ask him about this. This is Gabriel Mock, who is I guess like an uber modelizer. Let's go with that. Okay, slash artist, just being kind, all right. So then she goes to a fashion show with Samantha and they run into Gabriel Mack's character Barkley at this fashion show, and Carrie is wearing this fantastic dress that then she then wears to the after party, where she runs into Big, which is so incredibly likable.

I have to say, the two of them, I really liked them a lot, and it was nice to remember their original kind of chemistry and the way that it was written where they just kind of keep running into each other, but it's like casual, but then you can see that she lights up whenever she sees him. I mean, I really liked it. I really liked it, and I was surprised that I really liked it because it's a long time ago and I didn't really remember how c leverly it unfolds. You know, it's not really it's not

like a television storyline. It's more like a film storyline, but also set against this backdrop of Manhattan, right where like you would theoretically run into people in your same

social circle out an event and whatnot. Anyway, back to the modelizer, so they run into Gabriel Mark's character Barklay at this fashion show, and Samantha really with incredible confidence, decides that you know, she is up to the challenge of dating someone who literally only has sex with models, as Carrie tells her, and you know, you gotta really have a lot of respect for how Kim plays Samantha with such kind of a light touch, but also this

incredible confidence that yes, she is going to seduce this modelizer even though she's not a model, and that she likes that challenge. And then when Carrie tells her later no, no, you can't do that because he secretly films the people yes sex with She's like, yeah, yeah, I'm going to do that, like it's crazy, and she does it so lightly, like with with ease. Is what I was thinking when I was watching her, And obviously, wow, you know, I still can't quite get over the whole filming situation. But

you know what I think, I think what's happening? And I you know, I guess we'll have to ask everybody, But what's happening I think is that Candice in originally in her column, is trying to say, you know that we need to like pull the cover off of sexuality and relationships and what's really going on and talk about it, which obviously our show then did as well over the

years in different ways. And here in this early early early version, like Samantha saying like, no, no, I want to do this, I'm doing the on purpose because I'm choosing to do this. I think that she Samantha, and the show, I guess, is like trying to take the

power back. I think I'm not sure. I want to know what you guys think about this, because obviously this is something where you can say, oh, wow, look at that show filmed in like basically I want to say nineteen ninety eight, and how different things are now that that would not be okay to secretly film people and consider it your art, like you're going to eventually show someone like it's very whacked, right. I mean, I'm pretty

sure that everyone feels this. And the other thing I thought about when I was watching it is that I do tend to think like sometimes I'll meet young women or my friend's daughters and they'll say like, oh, I've just started watching the show and I love it, And I'll be like, oh, thank you, I'm so glad you love it, Like are you learning a lot? And I'll say yes, I mean I watched this show and I'm like,

oh no, they're watching this. Oh no, you know, it doesn't seem it doesn't seem necessarily like the most empowering situation that we're showing here. So it is really interesting to me, and I'm just dying to know what you guys all think, whatever age you are, young, old, please tell me your thoughts on this whole situation. Let me get my paper out because we are going to talk about Skipper and Miranda. I mean, wow, you know, there's so much here. My biggest favorite thing, Oh my gosh,

Carrie's wearing her coat. Let's talk about the coat for a second as well. This is when we first see Carrie wearing her vintage for a coat that Pat got her. I think they found it in like just a really no name store. We did recently get it back out on and just like that, and it was a true, true vintage for a coat. And I hope I'm allowed to say this. I'm really sorry if I'm not, but we eventually did get in a lot of trouble with Pete about it. I don't really like to wear fur.

I think I'm okay to say this as well. Pat back in the day really really really loved for and every year, what would happen with us scheduling wise, is that we'd come back to work in roughly February to start filming. The show would come on HBO in June and then play through the summer. So we had to pretend in February like it was summer weather, but obviously it really really was not right. So pat would always think, like, wouldn't it be great to put them in some fun

for coats. I could try to do my patent impression, but I don't want to really annoy you guys. She has a very distinctive voice, I'm sure you know. But every year, every year, at the beginning, she would try to get me into a fur coat. And every year I beg or please Pat no, please, Pat no, please, please no, please know anything anything but that, and but she'd be like, all of you are go to be

in fart It's going to be great. And I remember having to go to I can't remember which store, like a burgdor for maybe Barney's, but I don't think Barney's had a first section. It was like a whole section of fur coats, and she was like, you have to come here. So I go. She puts this chinchilla wrap cape on me, and she's like, it's fabulous. Her favorite compliment was to say it's d So I go to this store, I put on this chinchilla rap and she's like it's so de and I'm like, oh God, help me.

So I'm like, I go home. I literally have nightmares that the chinchillas have come alive and that they're crawling all over me. So I go to work the next day and I'm like, please, bad, I guess sleep think about those chinchillas. Please. I'm begging and begging. So what she would compromise on is that I would wear shearling.

So like, there's a really popular pink shearling jacket that I wear one year that people still love to this day, which for me seems very random out of all of the fantastic things I ever wore, that they love this pink cher link coat. But that was Pat's compromise that I didn't have to wear like mink or chinchilla or whatever it was. But we initially see Carrie in her really fabulous Okay, I can totally understand that this was

a special coat. And of course, sir, Jessica has this unbelievable gift of style, like just innate personal style, where you know she can wear a pair of sweatpants and you do not realize that they're sweatpants because of whatever she has done to them and put with them and a cessorized with them. They just look amazing. This is just her personal like special talent. Okay, obviously you all know that, but in terms of this vintage fur, that's

definitely what's happening here. Like if you or I went into this door and saw this vintage fur and we put it on, I don't know that it would be so so fantastic. Also coming up, I think soon they put me in a vintage outfit. I love vintage clothes. You guys always have love vintage clothes. One of the two notes that I know of coming from HBO is do not put Charlotte in vintage. Very interesting. You're gonna see why when we get to it. It did not. It did not play so well on the camera. I don't.

I don't. I mean, I'm sure we could have figured it out, but they were like, do not put Charlotte and vintage. And I also kind of understand, like it's like, you know, like kind of too on point in a weird way. But that was kind of sad for me because I do love vintage. But the first time that we see the coat, Carrie is walking with Skipper down the street and Skipper is going on about Miranda and how much he loves her and how he's been calling her and calling her and calling her and she won't

call him back. And then he gets out the most hysterical cell phone you've ever seen in your life, which I have such memories of, and Carrie pulls the antenna up with her teeth, which is like so enjoyable, you guys, and he flips open the thing like it's just so great. And I remember these things so well, and for us, we were just so thrilled to have them, like, you know, to have an actual cell phone as clunky and strange

as it was very exciting in the day. So they call her together and Carrie looks kind of nervous, like she understands that Skipper is being like too needy and that Miranda is not going to be into it, but she doesn't quite know how to tell Skipper because he's like, you know, very puppy energy and you know, like pick me. And so then you know that Miranda has gone out with a modelizer, right, which is obviously not a wise choice,

but how was she to know? And so she kicks him to the curb, thank goodness, and she's so funny. I mean, oh, I didn't even talk about the group scene. Oh my gosh, you guys welcome to my mind. So we have to back up. We have to back up to the group scene, the one scene that Charlotte's said. I do have so many memories of the scene because it was the first time that we're in Carrie's apart. We have Carrie's real apartment, though it also shows the coffee shop sign and Neon from the pilot, so it's

an interesting jextaposition of the old with the new. But it is Carrie's apartment, though it's not fully worked out yet, but it's like the blueprint the set that we would come to know and love, and we're all together. It is the one and only time that we were told that we could add lib. After that, it never happened again.

It was very, very very frowned upon after this. But it was the sweetest reason why in this particular scene, we're talking about models and men who only date women who are models, and you know how we feel about

that or whatever? Does it make us feel less than I think it's something like that, Carrie asked us, and then we were each supposed to say what we felt insecure about, and the writers didn't want to write that on paper, so that was very sweet of them not to want to write what they thought that we you would feel self conscious about, to let us add lib what we felt self conscious about, which was really kind. It was also like four in the morning. This was

the beginning of our well, no, the pilot. Actually, I think when I'm on the stairs of the met is like four in the morning. We filmed all night long, almost all the time. We would start Monday f five am, and each day would get longer and longer because we had night exteriors. Because as you remember a lot of the show in the beginning, especially, we're out and about at night. We're on the streets at night blah blah

blah blah blah. So we had to wait for nighttime, which meant we had to film later and later as the week went on. So as the week went on, like we'd film probably Wednesday night till two, Thursday night till four. By the time we got to Friday night, we would film until the sun came up on Saturday every single week, and then you'd have to turn yourself back around by Monday morning to go to work at five.

It was a lot, okay. And also back then, we really felt like we could never say this publicly like that. We just had to be like, we're fine, We're great, we love our show so much, and we're having so much fun, because that's what everyone wild always say, like is there so much fun? You'd be like yes, now, mind you. Also, on the weekend, I had a pair of shoes that was the whole size too big because my feet would be so swollen because I wasn't used

to wearing these shoes. Everyone always says like, oh, the shoes. I'm like, yeah, it's hard. It's a thing. It's not just like easy. And this is obviously a long time ago. So I would have a certain pair of shoes I would wear all weekend that my feet could just be swollen in. And then hopefully by the end of the weekend, the short weekend, they would be back ready at five am on Monday to be putting those minolas back on. But it did take Pat a little while to get

me in the minolo's. So right when we see this first episode, I'm wearing some boots. I think they're mine. I don't know, They're not good Okay, Pat has not worked her magic on me yet. It's begune and I'm stressing about it, but it has not really fully happened. So when we do do this scene in Sara Juska Carrie's apartment, sorry, I can't keep us straight. It is the wee hours and we are living and absolutely Kim ad libs like she like touches Cynthia's face at one

point or whatever. I mean, it was really I just remember giggling and that it was fun and exciting. And then I also thought, and this is just because I'm the only one here right now, I'm going to tell

you my own thoughts on myself. Previous to this show, I had been on well, I had done some guest star things in between, but I'd been on Melroe's Place, Darren's other show, right, and when you were on and Aaron Spelling Soap Opera, there were a lot of rules, and the rules were non negotiable, and the rules had to do with the fact that they wanted to do three sizes of a camera shot on you, one of which was a super close up that would literally cut

your hairline off right like be like your eyes and your mouth, and to do that you had to hold really still. So I played this character Brook who worked in this office with Billy and Allison on Heatherlockler's character, and I used to say like, oh, couldn't I have some props? And they'd say like, well, why would you want some prop? And I'd be like, well, we're working right, Like like should I write something down? It'd be like no, no, don't do that. They'd be like why why why wouldn't

I write something down? Aren't I supposed to be working? And they were like, well, you can't look down? And I'm like, what do you mean? What do you mean I can't look down now? Mind you, I'd spent the last fifteen years in acting class where they're just trying to talk to you about being natural and doing things and you know, being not self conscious or whatever, and so then you're on a show that's like, no, you can't look down, you can't have props, you can't do anything.

You have to just stare at the other person like hardcore okay. And you can't change your hair. That was the other Aaron Spelling thing, because he didn't want hair in your face because you wanted to see your eyes. Okay, now, I kind of get it because eyes are the windows to the soul. But on the other hand, as an actor, it's pretty hard. It's pretty hard to do that. So when I watch myself in the scene with everybody in the group scene, I'm just trying to be natural. I'm

just trying to be present. I'm eating, I'm touching my hair, I'm touching my face. I'm you know, just trying to be like un self conscious and in the show that we're trying to make, which is much more realistic, you know what I'm saying, like not like TV in the way that I was, you know previously in So that was one of the things I thought about watching watching the Four of Us with the Chinese food, like, yes, I'm eating. That was a big thing on our show. Yes,

we always ate, No, we almost, I don't. I can't think of a time we had a spit bucket because we're in a scene. You can't stop and spit food out in a spit bucket. That doesn't work. You have to keep talking. As you know, it's going to be a Miranda like signature. I mean, you know, they would like challenge her like how much food can you get in your mouth? And Cynthia was ready. She was ready. She's like, I'm going to go for it. We'd I'll

be like, oh my god, maybe it's too much. She'd be like no, But it was so much fun to watch, so to me that all of that is there in the beginning, Okay, Skipper, Skipper, Skipper Skipper, and Miranda are adorable, So he's there, he is. I don't even know that we ever have a guy care character who is like him. Again, I don't think we do. Where he's just like calling her and calling her and calling her and kind of needy,

and everyone's thinking it's not going to work out. Then they run into each other in the bodega, which is also so New York and so adorable, and he very beautifully tells her at the checkout that she's luminous, and she is luminous and it just melts her cold heart. So it's such a great, great, great scene and I love it so much. And then he wants to finish paying for his Captain crunch I believe or something, and she's like, there's cereal at my house, which is so great.

There's cereal at my apartment, I believe. She says it's so classic and great. So for me, there are such great, great, great moments in this episode where you really see this huge potential. But then there's also just really really strange things like this dude who's filming model secretly having sex

with him. Right, So it's a very mixed thing. But oh, the other thing I was gonna say is that, so we filmed these whole we'd done the pilot obviously, and then we filmed twelve more episodes before anything came on the air. And one of the great things is that HBO allowed us to find ourselves, right, So like we would kind of, you know, shift this way and shift that way, and one script might seem more pushing the boundaries, like I would say this episode, and then a different

script might seem more comedic. And remember Darren, sometimes he would come down the writer's rooms in the studio where we were in Silver Cup at this point on Long Island City. It's still there. It used to be a bread factory. It's a very charming place. It's kind of falling down, but we love it. And he would come down sometimes and he'd be like, you know, you guys got to be sexy. You gotta be sexy. And I'd say like me, really me, are you sure me? And he'd be like, yes, all of you, all of you.

And we'd be like okay. We kind of look at each other. And then a different week he'd come down and he'd be like, you guys, gotta be funny. You gotta be funny. And we'd be like, okay, uh, are you is there a rewrite? Like did something change in the script? You'd be like, no, just make it funny. We'd be like, okay, okay, Darren, Okay. So there was, you know, definitely a growing period of the show and the fact that HBO allowed us to kind of, you know,

slightly flail around a bit. I hope it's okay that I'm saying this, because when I watch them, I am really just like, it's been a long time. I vaguely, vaguely remember this stuff, but like I one percent did not remember this filming the model secretly part like it is crazy. But I do also feel like, you know, we've come a long way in some of these areas. I mean, some of these areas we haven't, and then

some of these areas we have. And I think back then, you know, I think that relationships and sexuality were kind of seen from the male gaze more often than not, at least in entertainment, so like in films, because that's really where you saw sexuality. You didn't really see it in television so much, right, So that was kind of one of the ways that we started pushing that boundary.

And then what I think happened my perspective on it is that as we kind of found ourselves and Michael Patrick came, and other writers came, more women writers came, we became more grounded in the fact that we were about investigating things from the female perspective and not from the male gaze, not from the male perspective, where we're just trying to kind of deal with it and make the best of it as we can, which is what I feel like poor Kerrie's trying to do in that

one scene with the dude. You know, she's like hah, you know, like kind of nervously laughing, but she's sitting there, you know, it's very fascinating. But then she definitely tells Samantha like, do not go there, you know what I mean. So it's not like she thought, oh, it's fine, right, So it's I think a very interesting thing, and I

think something that we'll be talking about more. And I'm super curious what you guys think of it, meaning those points of like, you know, did you feel uncomfortable watching that or did you feel like, oh, yeah, this stuff happens and let's uncover it, let's see it, let's see it for what it is. And I do think also that it should be said that I think that Candice had a very non judgmental, you know quality. She was like, I'm a social anthropologist and I'm uncovering what's going on

and I'm not judging it. And in that way, she was kind of ahead of her time. I would say, you know, I feel like now, in many ways, society's much more non judgmental and like, well, this is what you're into, but also there has to be consent hopefully. I mean that's how I feel, at least as someone with the daughter. I think we're there. I don't know what do you guys think? I want to know from you guys. All right? Those were my's dream of consciousness

thoughts about episode two, Season one, Models and Mortals. Thanks for being with me everyone. Next week we have an amazing guest. I can't wait. All right, bye,