Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte. You guys, this is very, very, very exciting. We are having the very first return guest. I'm so thankful to Missalinate. It's brilliant.
You back. I'm so honored and grateful to be back for my second time, my second appearance.
You just count down the days so we can get you back.
Let's go. It's my favorite season.
Oh, it's my favorite season two.
Season three is my favorite.
Right, everything jelled.
Everything jails. That's usually how it goes with the season three of shows. But I think for this, this particular series, I think something happens about season three, like even for me and I was watching it in real time at the time and just really experiencing what everybody else was experiencing. This this show that was very prolific but was very much a product of its time.
Yes, yeah, yes, indeed, yeah, which you're going to discuss, guys, because this episode is called No ifs Ands or Butts.
Yeah.
It aired July fifth, in the year two thousand, twenty five years ago, so bonkers to me. Yeah, I mean it does seem like another lifetime ago. But on the other hand, like, would you literally think twenty five years? It's like it makes no sense.
Right, I'm forty one, So I was like, you know, in my.
Twenties, and where were you when you were in your twenties.
I was still in Chicago, but you know, gearing up to come to La got it, but really with the desire and to be a television writer. And I've said this publicly before, but I think Sex and the City really made me want to take it very seriously. And I was very charmed and moved by the voiceover for sure, the character development, the friendships on the SHO show. I
think it's why it's on Netflix and everywhere else. And we continue to go back, and you guys were able to keep going back for different bites at the Apple. No pun intended, but uh yeah, I think I was sort of really seeing a different kind of TV shows because I did grow up on multiicams, you know, whether it be Friends, Fresh Prince, you know, Cosby Show, a different world. And I think what was so special about this was like, oh no, this is like a mini
movie every week. Yeah, and it is, but it's also like a novel. Yeah, And I'm just sort of so taken by these characters, and it really was I think my Generations, you know Mary Tyllenmore show, and how that was so significant for women in the seventies. This, I think the two thousands was sort of that was our new sort of awakening.
Absolutely absolutely, and I think for us, like we were just in it, and like I was telling you that we had Kylon and I guess it won't have aired by the time everyone's listening to us, But it was super interesting to be reflecting back on it because we had never reflected together. We had never talked about it.
Nothing crazy, you know, we were just.
In it back then, and we didn't have social media, so we didn't have this immediate response in real time, which had we aired this particular episode where Samantha decides to date a black man for the first time ever, which is so bizarre.
Okay, well the.
First time she implies it greatly, okay, And I went and looked up a few things, like the actress who plays the sister who's so great. The actors are also great. Her name is Sandra Oakley. She's very good, and she was already friends with the guy Ossio high Smith, who plays the guy that Samantha dates Shabon. They were already friendly, which was so nice, nice, and they were very excited. And then she said later, like maybe even just a couple days later, she was like, oh, I wish it
had been a different story. And I feel so bad that she felt that, like we just didn't do that. Well, I don't think Lena.
Well, the actress, the actress playing his sister, wished it was a different story. I'm curious in terms of how meaning.
I think basically it was for Vanity Fair. They did an article and Vanity Fair about it relatively recently. So she was reflecting back on how she was in her twenties and she was going to auditions and dancing and doing all different things, and it was a big part for her. She was excited to get it. She's excited to be on our set, and she said our set was a very positive experience. I was so happy to hear that always wonderful to hear. But then she said
just the fact. I think the thing she was most lamenting was that she and Samantha fight, that it was an angry black woman type of a thing that wasn't And I think the problem with this episode and I can't wait to hear what you have to say. Is that for some reason, and I think I know what in my memory we were doing or what the idea was, we decided to try to tackle the fact that there were no people of color in the show, which is not how New York City is obviously, but this particular
group of people, and we had discussed it. It had come up different people would bring it up in interview situations or whatever, and they would say, like, you do do you feel to us, the actors, do you feel
this is reflective of New York? And we would always kind of stammer, you know, and we'd say like, ah, you know, we don't write it, and you know, we're playing this kind of really specific group of people based on real people, and this is what their lives is like, which I don't really know if that's true, right because I don't really know those people that we were kind of playing.
I mean, to me, it feels very authentic. Actually yeah, yeah, okay for white women hang out with each.
Other, for sure, But what about one removed? Right, like my question would be, and we do start, you know, soon Sonya Brog is coming on right like soon, it does start to loosen up a bit, thank god, But like, are you only hanging out? Do you only ever see white people? Like if you look back, because now I'm watching every episode right like it is kind of amazing, Like in restaurants or in bars, it's just white people.
Well, I it's interesting because there is a level of people people don't understand is that there's a uh, there are companies that actually do like day player casting or extras casting. And so I think what is also happening because oftentimes you guys are be in real restaurants and sometimes you're I think the place you guys usually go is a fictitious place obvious. Yes, yes, it's obviously there for that reason. So I think this sort of is its own world. I mean, there's another thing about sex
and the City too, which is very specific. It's something I actually really like is that we never meet the character's parents and that intentional. It was intentional, and so this is it is a fantasy of New York in a way. But also what is sort of grappling with are all these different topics. And I feel the same way about girls. I don't want a black or brown character put into the frame for Quota's sake, true, I
just don't good point. I don't enjoy it. I don't like it because either you're doing that to pacify or you're doing it in a way where if there's going to be some sort of specificity about the character, it depends on who's in the writer's room as well. So I don't I don't know in terms of for the And I know a lot of the writers that were on Sex Andicity, you know, I've gotten a chance to meet many of them. And yeah, I think for the most part, the room was mostly like white women.
It was all white women at this point except for Michael, right, Yeah, and.
So that is a reflection of their experiences. And I think it would have felt a little false for them to say, well, let's let's put a black character in here because we think it's the right thing to do. I'd rather you do it because it feels organic and it feels honest. Well, then question about.
This episode, because it do feel like at some point people pointed it out and we felt uncomfortable about it, I guess, right, or like is this their world or should it be there? What should we do?
Do you know what I'm saying? A lot of I mean, look, I think there are a lot of people that hang out with people that look like them for sure. That's just sort of what it is.
That's true.
And especially when you look at our society now, people are in echo chambers. They only talk to people that they agree with.
That's true.
And so I think what Sex and the City represents are four women that, in my opinion, happened to be white. And what's interesting to me about it being Samantha who's dating a black guy. And I can't speak for all black women. I can speak for myself and that I look at Samantha as someone who is a woman of the world and who is very free and very open minded, and so her dating a black guy doesn't feel out of the ordinary. In my opinion, I agree.
That's why it's weird that it seems like she never has based on our reaction, I think.
Yeah, you guys are like, huh yeah. And it's interesting because he's also a man of means influence. He's very handsome, and that to me, they're very equally yoked.
I thought they were fantastic.
And I think the character, you know, his sister, well, I thought the actress plays her is really great. In the episode, I get the sort of cringy element of them fighting, but you know, look, Samantha says something pretty tough to her, so I'm kind of not mad at her. Like having a knee jerk reaction. People like we've witnessed someone have a knee jerk reaction at a very popular award show because of something that kind of startled them.
So we have these moments where you kind of, you know, for lack of a better term, blackout, you know, and you kind of do something that you kind of regret. So I don't look at it as she was an angry black woman. I looked at it as a woman who was feeling very attacked and Samantha touched her first. Yeah, maybe it wasn't a violence thing, but look, if you put your hands, even if it's a finger.
On meet, I agree, you.
Know, you know. But here's the thing. I think there is an authenticity to what's happening, and that not every black woman who has a black brother would have a problem with him dating a white woman. But I think if you there are probably some black women who would say, would I prefer him not be with a white woman? Yes, of course, But I think where I sit and again, this is Lena Waite's opinion. I think love is so hard to figure out and come by. I don't care
what race, nationality, religion a person is. If they accept you for who you are, you accept them for who they are, and you both are willing to invest in your own spiritual growth and each other's. I'm all for it. I agree now that that is you know, that's my opinion, but I also have to respect if someone says because it's it's a thing we took on on the shot
we tackled. We're like that was a Season seven, you know, where a black man was dating a white woman, and it is literally a conversation where Felicia Rashad is at the table and saying, this goes all the way back to Emmitt till there's a history that is steeped in it. And the thing about our past is that it still haunts us. And that's why, you know, there's a reason why there's a million O. J. Simpson documentaries, you know, and and the retelling of it, yes, re examining, re examiner,
you know what I'm saying. And so it is a conversation that will continue.
Absolutely well, it's so worked out.
No one, Yes, we have not figured it out. This is not a wound that is healed. No. So when you look at this episode, it is it is a valid one, Okay, And I think it's it's it's it's fair, it's fair game. And so this is something that that comes up in a racial dating is a thing. I have many friends who are the products of inter racial love.
Absolutely, absolutely, we.
All do you know, and so yes, look if people want.
To be upset, but how do we handle it?
Though? That's my did you handle how did this show handled? Yeah?
Like I didn't feel like like when I I kind of vaguely remember it, and then of course I rewatched it and I was like, oh, like, I think also because we're trying to do for storylines, as you know, we've talked about the structure, you know, the structure is always a challenge. And the big the sorry, the big big storyline exactly is Aiden and Aiden's new It's very exciting.
He wants her not to smoke. This is so fascinating when you think about their long, long history, right, yeah, already wants her not to be doing something she's doing right, whether Smokey's good or not. Easton pointed out, he already
is trying to control her, which is interesting. We either yes, both both, let's say listen, but it's interesting, right, So that's the main storyline, and so Samantha's is this well, I don't even know, and then there's yes, it would probably be yeah, And I think I'm the bad kischer who's also very bizarre. Weble talking about that, very different on the page than what Nicole Hallafson or the director had happened, Like the dialogue doesn't match. But that's okay.
If it were on now, people would be online talking about, you know, he didn't do what she said, you know, because he's licking my face. But then I have a big, big wound on my chin and attacked, but he's just licking it.
Like he was. Okay.
I mean I know what it was like how I remember it feeling or whatever, and it was just like a lot. It was wet. It was very wet. There's so much wet it's bad. But it wasn't like I would have a wound, right, And I'll get to that in a second. I know why Michael Patrick did that, because he's so bad and some to put things in from life but we'll get to this. I think when I look back on it, one of the things that I think is glaring, Like Samantha says to us at lunch,
I don't see color. I see conquest, which is like a very Samantha's statement, but also like that's a problem if you don't see color, because you do see color because everything else, you say, she talks about his big black cock. You know, she talked, you know, we talked about him wearing jewelry, but like Aiden's wearing more jewelry than chivone. Do you know what I mean? Is it interesting?
Well, I mean, is there just because you asked the question, how did you guys handle it? Yeah? And I think that's a very it's sort of an interesting question because it's like it really depends on what you mean by handle. And I think with you know, television series, because somebody could ask us, like, how do we think we handled my characters coming out on a Master of None. Yeah, we did not necessarily handle it. What we did was we are broached it in a way that made sense
for us as artists at that time. And so I think we kind of get caught up in these ideas of what is the right way to handle something? Okay, what is the wrong way to handle something? And I just don't believe in either of those things.
Okay, But let me ask you this, So when if you bring up your own storyline, like you lived that storyline and you were there writing and acting, right, so you had your own authority about the experience. And I think that's you know, gold, you know what I'm saying. And obviously it was and the worthy of it. But in our case, what I kind of mean and I maybe didn't say it well. I wish if we were going to do this that they had gone more in depth.
Possibly what the actress who played the sister were saying was that when they are in the bar, in the scene where they get in the fight, that Samantha says something to her like why can't you just you know, get to know me or let me whatever, let me go down the road and see what you think or something,
and she said, it's a black thing. The sister says, it's a black thing, and she was saying something like she thought that was like simple and pat, I guess, you know, rather than possibly exploring it more, The.
Truth is, you only have so much real estate on the page. And also I think first of all, like it's a black thing is was something that was a bit of a popular saying for a short beat amongst within the black community. And like I remember when I was young, I would hear like people say it within the black folks to say it, but the way it was kind of as a short cut as saying it'll I can never make you understand, got it? You know,
like you will never understand that. Okay, Okay, that's interesting And I think you know you don't because also they're in the middle of this club, you don't. She doesn't want to go down into the history of our you know, nation, But she really is sort of telling Samantha like, you
don't you'll never get in, you know. And and in essence, because what I know as a television writer, both characters have to be right, and in essence they are because Samantha is saying, well, okay, yeah, I'm not black, but like, you don't know me. You haven't gotten a chance to spend time. And the interesting thing is, as a person who really likes the Samantha character, I wouldn't mind hanging out with her and getting to know her and vibing with her. She's the fun friend. She's the one that's
not gonna judge you. You're gonna go, You're gonna get into some exclusive place. You know, She's a vibe and so what what breaks my heart the most about the episode is that we don't get to explore Samantha dating this black guy.
I agree also because they are so good together.
That's what always breks. But that's it's always broken my heart about the episode. Interest is not about how it was that's a handle per se, but rather like, it would have been cool if we could have that actress, could have had maybe a three episode art because that's how long the relationships last of the city. But and then had them break up over something that had nothing to do with race.
That would have been so good.
But now, look, I think for whatever reason, they didn't want to go down their road. And that's fair because there wasn't a black writer in the writer's room and it does get tricky where if you have black actors speaking and there's no black person around, then my for me, I'd rather like then don't even deal with race at all, Like, don't let that be a part of it. If you guys are too scared to like kind of go down that road, just let it be, you know whatever, you know.
And but but because I think they didn't want to ignore the glaring fact that this is a black woman, that she's got this restaurant, she's talking about Okra and whatnot. You got the brother, he's got the Jennifer Lopez party. So they're very much sort of culturally you know, intelligent, and they know what's going on. They're not unaware of who they are, where they come from. I just think
it's important. I like the episode. I think, yeah, of course it maybe you could go back and tweak or adjust things, but I just feel like it's a time capsule. All entertainment as a time capsule. I don't want to go back and say, well, let's fix this for our comfort.
No, of course, and I mean we can't. So it doesn't even matter if we want to.
And it's reflective. It's reflected. You get to go back and reflect and say yeah, okay, because I'm telling you it could have been a lot worse. It could have been a situation where you look at it and go, okay, well we got to talk about this and we talk about that. I really do you want to see women fighting, like, no, but most reality shows that most people watch involve grown women, professional women, well dressed women. Yeah, physically fighting each other.
It's just so weird, throwing tables, throwing like, you know, like drinks, and so that I can't be offended by that episode and acts as if that women kind of going back and forth at each other isn't something that is pushed by some powers that be that are not us.
That's a good point. That's a good point. I hadn't thought about it in that way. I did think about the year two thousand a little bit, and that was like the Survivor had started was really vague. You know, Friends is obviously big er is you know, it's pretty much white network television. Sure, and then we're over there on HBO. But I think that is one of the frustrations that people would express to us at the time was you guys are on HBO and you can do
whatever you want, So why is it so you know white? Basically, people would say.
But here's the deal. Our entertainment, our media is a reflection of our society, and we live in what I like to call a white leaning society. We live in a white leaning society. I'll use the as an example. How many women have won Best Lead Actress in a Motion Picture. Her name is Halle Berry. How long have the oscars been around? Again, we live in a very white leaning society, and that's sort of what it is, you know, And so I think in two thousand, it's like,
that's a reality of what TV was. And at the same time, I, a young black queer woman in Chicago, was watching the show and really felt It's interesting because I don't know if the word is to say I felt seen. That's not necessarily right, but I felt the show's humanity. I felt because I was still living with my mom. I was like, I wasn't out in the world. But what I was seeing, what you guys are such a beautiful job of was saying, your friendships are what
will determine what your relationships ultimately look like. So good, yeah, yeah, yeah, And that was always the point.
Definitely.
It's like these men are like they gonna come and go, and sometimes women will come and go. It is the friendship that sticks, and that is actually a reflection of how I still live my life. And it's not about putting friendships before my relationships. Because I do understand that as well, and that with the characters. When your character gets married, they aren't afraid to show us what happens.
There is a there's an empty chair now, right, and they're like, moment for a moment, for a moment, you come back, but there, but you're the first of the four to transition. And and they also show us what happens when one of your friends has a baby right now? She got the baby at the damn table, right, And you guys are like, what is on? Like what are
we come on? And she's frustrated, yes and inconvenience yes for her yes, And you guys are like, girl, Sam, you gotta bro like she got a kid, now, relaxed? Right were you at the table? What are you only talking about your husband?
What's going on?
And it's like, oh my god. Yes, but it's practice.
It's true, and it's also it's intimacy. It's chosen family, yes, and that it is put and what Michael Patrick did say at one point too, which I think is also like even maybe one layer underneath, it's all about your relationship to yourself, you know, and what figuring out who you are and what you really want what's true to you, right, which I think we've always tried to do, you know,
in the whole history of all of it. Like someone came on the other day and they were saying how unhappy they were that Carrie ends and just like that single, And I said, well, that's really funny because when we ended se in the city and she was not single, people were outraged, you know, yeah, just saying people were outraged. Some people were outraged. Everyone's going to project their own right exactly.
Right, right, I mean, but and I did. I read an article about that, about her, you know, winding up on her own. But I also think it's it's a statement of the times.
I do too. Yes, it's the whole thing.
It's very it's very topical.
Did you see this woman wrote this article about being embarrassed to have a boyfriend.
Oh my god, it's so good and.
So you know, on social media it used to there was like a whole relationship revealed thing and like so wonderful. Still still for sure, but I mean now there's another kind of almost like counterprogramming to that going. You know what, I am my own woman, I make my own money, and I go on trips by myself.
Well, hello, Tracy Elis Ross. I told her, I said, I told Tracy, I said, you are a brand of women. Am I divorced? No, I'm Tracy Elis Ross totally.
And that is the future of like resorts apparently single women wellness.
Well, Tracy has a whole show about it, travel and obviously compare that with like Carrie's character, you know, being on her own. But I think a big part of that is and I know there's a lot of women, I want to say, of a certain age. I don't know what that age can be. It can be any age. But there are a lot of women who are like, you know what, I'd rather do this solo. And and some of that may have to do with who are
their options? What what, what's what's coming? You know, are some women saying, let me maybe entertain the idea of dating a woman or someone who's non binary. But also, again, we live in a patriarchal society.
Right, and we're still like men are the top of the pyramid. Yeah, but we're and it's interesting that we're like trying to figure out like how how to like we're going around in a circuit about how to deal with that do you feel.
Well, you mean in terms of the patriarchal elements.
I'm a single woman right now. I've got a lot of money, thank god. You know, it worked hard. Kids don't really need a man, you know what I mean. People are so confused by it.
Well, here's I mean. I think to me, it's it's interesting because I was also seeing I didn't get to I didn't get a chance to watch. I saw the click, the thumbnail and the thing, but I haven't watched the video yet, but it was saying are women getting the men they deserve? And right, so I saved it. I will watch that later because I'm curious what that it's a podcast up, I'm like, cure what that conversation is like. But the truth is, and not even say person too.
I don't want to make it so binary, but but the truth is, it's a matter of do you want to be on your own team or do you want to be in a scenario where you're you're on the team with someone else, And that is those are two very different lifestyles for sure, for sure, and they both come with their pros and cons.
Right when I look back on the show, there's so many things like with Steve. Steve in this particular.
Really good episode for Steve, it's so good, he's so good.
He's great, isn't he so great? And I really really didn't understand at the time how great he was.
I think I've always liked Steve. He's always he's blue collar guy, so solid.
Real grounded and solid and like like such a big heart, Oh my god, huge heart. And Samantha's sorry, Miranda's so closed that it's the perfect combination. But then also we know what happens, and you can also kind of understand what happens, right because he's just like this kind of puppy.
Big huge hearts and she's like no, no, But again that what I love is that that relationship brought out so much in both of them. Yeah, you know he opposite. Yes, he helped him grow up and he helped her relax.
Because he is like a child. I mean, he's like a child when he's like come to the playground.
Well, here's the deal, Like, how do we define child?
Good point? Good point? Good point? But like I felt like she was the mommy in that conversation right where she's like, well, you're probably not.
Gonna win, but but here's the and by the way, like that's I love that you need to have everybody's perspective and also both sizing to be right. And so she's probably right, but so was.
He totally totally I mean, I mean, and that's the point I think, really well well done. Where she goes and they have that famous scene in front of Magnolia Bakery with the cupcakes, and she's like, you know, I just seems really stupid.
She was the worst silly. Yeah, and of course Carrie's wasn't that what couples are supposed to do each other? Silly? Dream true? True? And will at least be supportive, yeah, you know, and the other person, yes, they won exactly silly. But what it is is it forces her to grow because I love that, Yes she's a she's at her you know, her desk, and she's working. And it goes back to what I was saying, when you're in a relationship with someone, If she wasn't with him, she would
not have gone outside and gotten some fresh air. She had just been in the apartment, you know.
And she also wouldn't think about what are what.
It was, dreams, what's possible? It's okay to believe in something that seems like it would never happen, right, totally. Yeah, So I just think like that to me, is is so beautiful and special, and I think it sends a really nice message to me too.
I was really happy I didn't remember any of that storyline, I think because I'm not. We're not. We're now all a bit siloed storylines, and I just remember I remember them having so much stuff and thinking it was good at the time because it was such a deep arc. I'm always all for that, and we really made use of that on the show in a beautiful way of the writers. And I love that as a viewer, you know as well, like really getting time to.
See oh yeah, that's all we love Steve and eight so obviously eight and being introduced, and later we'll see how Aiden and Steve come together and those guys because they're very much, you know, kind of kept from the same clock. They opened the bar together and all that stuff.
Oh my god, yes, I forget all these things. It's really fun to rewatch.
I have never rewatched, you understand, most of us we like just go back and like have it on. It's just like the office, It's like anything else. We are. It's this encyclopedia, it's a library, and the fact that there's like three chapters of it. It is the show the movies, the movie era, which was like huge. Okay, I remember the midnight showing at that you know, the Grove. Oh wow, grow for the midnight screen at the first such a City movie.
It's so crazy not knowing what to do it exactly, but.
Not knowing what to expect. I think in terms of society.
Yeah, like when people go people not people the industry. This is what the industry was saying. We were not supposed to do well, I know, because they can't ever learn that lesson that women want to go to the movies and gay men and game.
Absolutely it was, but it was a really I'll never forget that experience going to see that movie and seeing seeing the cultural impact amazing because you're like, yeah, who is gonna you know? And I wouldn't have minded if it wasn't like it's like sex and City fanatics so whatever.
But it was. It was almost as if everybody that was at home, like because you are silo your home watching it yourself and talk about it with your friends when you have a watch party, depending and I think when the movies happened, it was like a freaking Star Wars convention. It was like we all were like insane in the same place, watching the same thing, and it was really cool. It's cool to be around your people. And it felt like, you know.
Absolutely, that's what going to the movies why we can never lose it.
No, you can't, because it's too it's too special.
It's it's too magical experience dark.
And y'all gave us, you know, some big movie that I know that the word is like you know one, but like just some really big movie moments. I mean talk about set pieces and like because you do wonder what are we gonna do? Like what's it going to be? It's like Michael patuc was like, you'll see, don't worry and then but obviously then the third chapter and final is you know, and just like that, which is to have those three eras is pretty it is pretty conic.
I agree, it is. It's beyond it's beyond anything that I can even really sometimes get my own mind around it. And I have lived through it. But I also don't feel like it's done. I don't don't look at I don't I don't look at in my thut, I don't do, you know what I mean, Michael's on his own page. I don't know. Sarah's on her own page, of course, but I don't feel I did feel complete after, you know, and just like that or the second movie, we thought we were going to do the third.
Right, and then it kind of turned into and just like that, I think time.
But during that time, I'd see Michael and I'd see the girls obviously discussed like what should we do? Should we do something?
You know, I know it's.
Always exactly and there was always that chance, which was exciting and nice. So we still had each other in our lives, which is also amazing.
That's rightful, Yeah, it's the best part.
But then and now that's true now, and so that we did it just like that, and I really thought we'd keep going because that's me, right, It's just.
Me, always, eternal optimus, and you keep going forever.
I was like, well, why wouldn't we you know what I'm saying, like.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's it's a look. I mean, we're we're gonna write We're season eight for the Shop. I was gonna, you know, it's our final season but I think it really was. I definitely was thinking about those final interviews that you guys did with for Sex and the City the first time around after the sixth yes, and I just remember, you know, surgical Parker saying like, you want to leave while the party's cresting, you want to I was like, what do you say? What are you saying?
Sometimes that I was like, what are you talking about? We don't want to know.
But here's the deal, here's the deal. It was. It was hard. It was tough because you think, like, oh damn, six seasons, come on, but it felt right. It did. It felt it felt because otherwise you don't want to go out with the whimper. No, that's true, and you want people to gather, and that's true. People get true, people get me.
I think at the time that the show, you know, Sarah had her baby and Cynthia had her baby, So for me, I was living life with them watching that, and that is a huge chapter in life right then. I also really did believe that the time that we ended the first show that we would make a movie, and that was super exciting.
Right. How much time was that though between it ended, It was more time.
Than it was supposed to be because they had a hold on us in our contracts. Oh yes, which was part of the negotiation for the final season. You know how they like to put everything in together. They're like, well, you would like more money, we would like this X Y and Z, right, yeah, And I was like, yes, yes, I will give you X Y and Z. I ah put me on hold to make a movie. Please tell you. I'm like, that is no problem.
That's interesting. So you guys had that.
That was then it expired.
Oh yes.
I had to call brecked On and we talked about it a little bit. And because he was in charge of HBO at the time, Wow, and he had the foresight to think of a film.
Wow, that's interesting.
But then and so he commissioned the script for Michael Patrick. And Michael Patrick was writing the script, which we knew about, right, and so we had a hold in our contract. It was I want to say, a year or a year and a half, not that long for us to start production, right. And I remember Michael calling and telling me the ideas, not seeing a script, but hearing the ideas. I was, yeah, to Michael, anything you want me to do, I will do.
I was very, very excited and I thought this would just be amazing, even if it was just a small culty kind of a movie. You know what I'm trying to say, right, Like we didn't know, you know, we didn't know, right, But the problem was HBO didn't know who was going to finance and or distribute it, right, because we were all in Time warn but HBO we
don't release movies. It ended up being Time a new line under Warner Brothers, right, And but that was eventually so the first time around when Chris had commissioned the script from Michael Patrick, the it the hold expired, got it and I was devastated because you want to do thee God yes, But then you know, Michael Patrick's not going to give up once he's got a creative idea, I know, right. So he had a creative idea and he was like,
we're going to figure it out. But it was hard because it had never been done right where you've got an ip that has been over here exactly and you're wanting to put it over here. So it took Toby Emerick saying stepping up to the plate when he did, and what Chris said was the turning point was Devil ware's part of one did so well. That was one of our directors, David Frankel exactly. And Chris was like, that's our movie. Why didn't we make our movie?
We're so stupid out before?
Isn't that bizarre? It's not how I remember it, but that's what Chris told me. And I looked it up and I think it's accurate.
Oh well, yeah, I believe that. Wow.
Interesting, right, So he was like, why didn't we go ahead?
We should go I think I think, well, I think everything happens exactly the way it's supposed to. But I think that amount of time and again I can't put my finger on how much time it was from when the last episode aired.
Two thousand and four to two thousand and eight. That's four years.
That to me is such a beautiful amount of time.
Yeah, that's not too long, not too short.
Yeah, it's like it really kind of gave people time to kind of miss you guys, and you know, and obviously and it made sense in terms of where you guys left off that Oh yeah, they would be maybe thinking about getting married at this point, and this is where Samantha would be and this is where Miranda would be. It just and also what school is just going to get a sense of where are they now? Where's everybody?
Get the quick like catch up and check it in all these and then it's like, you know, for the fandom that is the show, everybody sitting in that theater is like, oh okay, oh oh you just because you have all these ideas of what happened to them once you left them. Yeah, that that personally is like just like and then of course, of course, because it did so well, you're gonna have a sequel.
Sure, we were supposed to have three. That was the plan.
The fact that you guys are going to do three movies is insane to me.
I know it is insane, but.
It's crazy. I would have hung up after the first one. After the first movie, I'd be like, that is a wonderful.
Nobody wants up when you do well the first time.
But guess what it Yeah. I love that there was never a sequel to Bridesmaids.
Oh that's a good point.
That's good. And I know that Kristen Wigg and her amazing writing partner probably were offered something and I'm sure there's a story behind it. I'm sure, But I and I think that movie made it on the top one hundred movies of the some century. The New York Times did whatever, which was cool. And I said to myself, and I think the reason why is because they let that movie stand. They were like, we're not going back smart.
It did what it needed to do. That's it. And and I'll say, I mean, look, I'm happy that there was another movie. We all were, but that's that first Sexto the City movie. It can stand on its own even if you never seen the show.
Yeah, it's beautiful right now.
You can't watch that movie and just say wow.
I agree.
That is I agree, and you guys give us a feast.
I know, I agree. I agree. Michael Patrick did a great job with the first one and the second one too in a different way. But like, I understand what you're saying, but it's really hard.
I get it. No, no, y'all. It was nuts. It was like it was it was everywhere. It was crazy. So I get it crazy.
And it's crazy because we were such a I say this, people don't believe me, but we were like the little train that could, you know.
The word, yeah, little engine that could, the little.
Engine that could. Thank you so much, you're a good writer.
You know.
We weren't supposed to ever be successful, you know, but we just had like like we were so committed, like like we are going to tell these stories.
But my question is why did people think it wouldn't Why did you think that you.
Were because there was nothing like it.
There was no is a reason to be success.
Absolutely, but there was no like you know how the process is, Yes, there's no precedent and how they like to say like the four quadrant.
The well, the question becomes waiting to exhale come out before the show, because that's kind came up with myself on the Red Divine on Legacy Talk.
Good point where.
Because I know Girlfriends was like right after you got and so there were there were these black women quads, you know that sort of.
I think waiting for exhale.
Yeah, waiting to extail what year to come?
I feel like ninety five right before us, right yeah, and that was a huge hit. Good point, good point.
Well, look, I got to give credit to the Red Divine, Yes, the great Red Divine. She was like she says it, she's a I literally have to talk like what's the one with the white girls running around New York City. I said sex and Decisions. She's like, yeah, that came Afterway, and.
I remember that was a big like every huge, huge, you.
Know what I'm saying. And so I think I think that again it goes back to a patriarchal society where that women we are, there's no argument about it, are seeing as second class citizens in our own nation, our world, all over the world. And so the idea for women talking about their sexuality, being friends, dating, having real autonomy feels like, well, is that going to be Mary telling
Moore show. They literally had to save it. They were putting it on Saturdays and going like, nobody's going to stay home and and it's and again, a lot of it is there's so much doubt when it comes to us, so much, and so we it's so interesting because when you say the lunch come like what, why would anyone think that makes so much sense? And you know, and look again, because we live in a white leaning world. Yes, it's it's white women that get that that push, you know.
But I am grateful for some movies like Set It Off and Girls Trip, like The Quads content, the Quads content.
Thank god, thank god.
Yeah, you did a trio you know, fantastic. You know, it's like that, thank you so much. I mean, any version ladies talking, there's always vibe, absolutely enjoy talking about their emotions, about dating, all that kind of stuff, and so yeah, I think Sex and City made it very popular, but I totally get like there was some sort of backlash because it's showing women having a voice, not necessarily needing a man to approve them, but rather than building
their own bond and finding their own self love. So of course there's going to be a threat to society that sees women as as people that need to be dependent on men.
All right, everyone, thanks for joining Lena Waite. Then we are going to continue, so please join us later in the week for part two with Lena Waite. Wonderful as always