Catching Up With Friends with John Benjamin Hickey... (Compulsive Shower Guy)

Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte? This is very exciting, you guys. We are in the sidebar part of Are You a Charlotte, which is catching up with friends, and here we have the incredible John Benjaminicky.

Yeah.

Now we are a little bit past his episode. I've been trying to get him on. Okay, he's a hot ticket, you guys.

I didn't realize.

I was so busy. Yeah, we were much desired.

Trying to figure out what I was doing that I could be so unavailable.

But here I am.

That's okay. It was important stuff. You told me at the premiere what you're doing, and I totally understand. Yes, it's okay, it's okay, but you're here now and that's all that matters. So John is in the first season, which really surprised both of us.

Yeah, exactly.

We thought it was like later on in the run.

Absolutely, I would have probably said end of the second maybe even the third third.

Which I think of as our best season. If we have to pick an overall season in.

My episode for your episode, that's.

Why I'm saying I would put it in the bed because it's such a good episode and it was written by Michael Patrick King, which you can completely tell. Oh god, yes, John plays the Catholic Guy. He has a real name, is called Thomas John Anderson, which is kind of funny because John Benja three and he's playing Michael Patrick King basically and his own episode, and he is called the Catholic Guy. That's what we call him in the shorthand

If I never remember the direct vivid memories of MPK not directing me, but just he's such a brilliant, extraordinary presence on set and his writing was so great that I remember him and of course have known him all these years after. But yeah, I don't remember the directors. I know, but that's not because he didn't direct a great episode.

Absolutely, because that's an episode.

Good director disappears a little bit.

This is a good point. And you also direct, so you know very well. You know very well, so tell us your memories and your thoughts about the new It was relatively new show.

Yeah, how is this a G rated program?

Okay, great, Well, what I vividly remember is being on top of Cynthia, having being in the throes of passion and having orgasm after or fake orgasm after orgasm, and getting up and sharing. And you know a lot of people have seen it in syndication and all that stuff's out, but in the I guess the DVD or box set or whatever you call it these days, you.

See all of those sex scenes.

So what I remember most vividly is being in bed in flagrante with Cynthia Nixon. Thank goodness, I had known her. We'd done a play together, which is the way you get very intimate, very quickly, is by being on stage together. And we had such a great time doing this play and such a great rapport and such great trust that we immediately threw ourselves into it. And you know, this was before Sex and the City was Sex and the City, So going to that set and having to do such a huge.

Sex scene was really nerve racking.

Nerve racking, So that's my biggest memory is just being on top of Cynthia, and you know, and then the casual after an hour or two, it becomes so casual, like, what are you gonna have for lunch? I think I'm gonna have that, you know, totally both yeah, naked, and I mean we all had We've talked about cook socks and all that stuff. Yeah, right, right right, and I guess I remember the cok sock as well.

There you go. Very memorable. I mean the thing about Cynthia too, which is a theme in every guy that I've ever spoken to who was opposite hers, that she has no real fear or self consciousness about it.

Yeah, no she doesn't. But listen, this is the all of your reputations precede you when actors go on your show. And this was true twenty how many years ago, twenty.

Five years, twenty seven or six, unbelievable, And now you get a job on that show and you're decided to go there because of the way you guys treat people.

It's guesting on a show, even if you're in the first season or now, is being is like being forced to go to somebody else's office Christmas party. You know, there might be a little bit of a feeling of nobody really understands why you're there, but you're there, and so it's very important for the top of the call sheet. To treat people, you know, this very very well. To make people feel comfortable one of the biggest parts of the job. And this was a show that did that

Absolutely. I mean it's funny because she sometimes I would be so worried if she had one of these scenes because I was like, she's not going to take care of herself, and you know, not with you, because you're a season pro. But like sometimes people just grab an all crazy way and no one would say like stop, and I think, like I should go, I should go, and she'd be like delicate, delicate, you know, But she didn't care. And that's so freeing when you're watching her.

Yeah, yeah, really, she's really she's really fearless. We went on to do another series together called The Big c and had so many sex scenes. Like I think maybe as many sex scenes as Cynthia has played over the years, I might be at the top of the list of the just the quantity.

I love it, and I hope the quality. But you did a lot.

Together, and oh my god, by the end of our run on the Big Sea together, we were.

Like amazing, like an old Mary com I know, really love that because you're so perfectly matched. You know, you are so complex as an actor, which I think you often like are more into your directing now and whatever. But to me, whenever I watch you on film, you're so complicated, and she also has so many layers, and she kind of does it so effortlessly. Wish you as well, because you've been doing it so long. It's very interesting to watch. I could see why they would cast you

I want to say I done a play a playwrights rising It's called on the Bum with Cynthia, which is one of the great experiences of both of our lives.

I think she would say the same.

It's just an amazing group of actors, a very large cast and all of off Broadway's finest Campbell, Scott and yeah, just incredible people. And Cynthia and I really had a great bond. I do remember that her mother sent me a note. Cynthia was very and if her mom liked an actor she was playing opposite.

You really rose in the ranks. You rose in her eyes. I'm still very proud of that.

Yeah, and so I feel like I knew going in that that I was going to be well taken care of.

I don't remember. I don't think I auditioned for the part.

I think I was offered the part, which so perfect, Yeah, which was very rare back then.

I auditioned for everything happily.

Would audition again if it was a role like what's his name, Paul Thomas Anderson.

That's a director, Thomas J and N Anderson.

But I don't remember auditioning for it.

But would that have been Sir Jessica's relationship with you?

Maybe, yes, we were. We were close back then, but we got really close. Maybe in seasons three, four and five we were. We got closer as friends then in the beginning, I don't think we were quite that close. We knew each other, but not that well. To be completely honest, I don't know. I don't know.

I think it was because you were so perfect for that part.

I guess uh, and and you know, but there's a there's a fear in that because if you haven't auditioned, you're going in and you're thinking, I hope they I think they've made the right decision, and I hope I don't show up and they're like, oh, that's not what we wanted, because if you have auditioned, then they've seen what you're what you're bringing. So I went in cold, and when you're having to do nude scenes, you want to be very warm. You want to be warm warmed

You're so tremendous. It's crazy to think you would have done that in one day because you're so mad. You get so angry when she tries to tell you not to shower.

I'm on the rain, complete Catholic meltdown. Oh excuse me.

I'm so sorry that you think I'm not going to go to hell for having sex.

Yeah, yeah, that fixes it. You're like, that fixes it right away. It's so good.

And I vividly remember MPK and the wonderful director saying go further, because you know, I was a theater actor and I was like, oh boy, that was probably really over the top, and Michael's like, no, get madd go further, really lose your on her and loving it and having a ball. And at that point we had simulated sex and orgasm so many times together that we could do anything.

Absolutely, absolutely, so for me, when I think back on the first season, this is what's been so interesting to rewatch it. First of all, I thought the first season that we weren't together. When I watch it back, I'm like, all the pieces are there. We might not have been completely structurally together the writing, but like the acting and

As you describe the only way I can really articulate it is very niche Like my family in Texas didn't have HBO, so and I was probably relieved because there was so much sex going on that that I probably had some relief in that. But I remember it being very blue, you know, blue as in a little more than R rated for the time, especially now it's like, you know, but it felt way out in Queen's Yes, and I mean that in the metaphoric sense as well.

It seemed like to be way over there. HBO was so the wild wild West. Yeah.

And I it's interesting because I'm good pals with Darren Star because my partner Jeffrey Richmond and he created this beautiful show called Uncoupled Together, and I've spent time with Darren through the years. But he talks about that first season and he's very articulate about like none of us knew really what we had or what you guys had worked together before, of course, and he and Sarah had

Is ever going to.

Catch more than just a specific population's imagination, because it was really out there. So that's that's basically my memory exact. It wasn't TV, baby, it was HBO, and TV was a completely different thing, and now, of course everything is kind of melded together, and Sex and the City was the pioneer of that.

Thank you. That's so nice, really is so tell me you when I saw you at the premiere, which was so nice to see there at our crazy, crazy party that they threw for us.

It's insane. I've never seen more people in my life.

And let me just say too that, like I live right down the street from where the party was, so we threw on a pair of jeans, like let's just go say hi. I mean because Sex and the City and just like that have been such a part of my life, our lives of Yeah, yeah, so long, I don't think of it as a big deal. This party was so fucking packed and so packed with young people. I know, young young people who were just so happy to be there were so maybe it did my heart

Absolutely absolutely, And also we didn't this was the first time that they had thrown this type of an event, fir Us. We used to it in the olden days, which I'm sure you came yea of those huge parties with the pr and that bed in front of like Lincoln Zentner. Do you remember this, like insane level parties. But this was not a premiere exactly, so we didn't exactly know how to dress. We didn't really know what we were doing, and we didn't really know who they

I mean, if you wanted to bread a hot cross bun for one of those about twenty five.

But it was so nice to see amazing, It was amazing.

Also you bring up, you know, the bakery, and you have such chemistry with such people who have.

Been in my life.

Mario and Evan, I mean have known Evan since, you know, he made this massive uh took New York by storm with his show Time under Fire, which was about his sickness and yes, and he was just always been one of my favorite actors and favorite people. And Canton, of course I've known Mario Cantone replaced Nathan Lane in Love Valor Compassion, which is the first Broadway play I did, Wow, and he and I were instant best buddies, and it

He doesn't know how to do.

It's so painful, Paul. I mean, the one challenge is that Michael loves to give him like a lot of props, and that's not really Mario's I was like, please let me sing. I just want to say, I don't really want to do you a microphone exactly, give you a microphone, not a loaf of bread. But he's he's growing and expanding, you know, every season.

Credit because he's not I mean, he's a great actor, but it was he hasn't done a lot of tell it.

It wasn't his thing when we hired him. He was and he was only supposed to do a few episodes, as he told us when he came on the podcast, which is also what I love. And it's amazing because as much as I know you, I don't even know all your connections. I just know that you're part of the family.

Well that yeah, when you're on a show in New York, and when it's an as iconic a show as this New York show as this is, and there are very few who that are.

You really do attract.

That's one of the great things about shooting in New York City, man, is you get Fanny Sternhagen, Mary and Selda's you know, you get you get the greatest character actors in New York.

So when John Benjaminski who plays Thomas, John Anderson many so many names in Oh Come All, Ye Faithful, Well that's the episode just to refresher, but it was maybe like three four episodes. We recapped it ago and is the one where Carrie and Miranda go to a church because Carrie wants to see Big and his mother because she wants to hang out with him on Sunday. And he says, no, I go to church every Sunday with my mother, which She's just like what, And so she

Yes As she was so many many, Kevin Klein, Patti Lapone, from group one to I was Group eighteen to probably group thirty five. Marian there ushering us into our careers and our lives as actors. And there was no greater teacher, no greater actor, no greater person of the theater in the history of the twentieth century than Mary.

Yes, her presence, I mean she doesn't have a lot to do in our episode, but just her presence standing there is so powerful.

Absolutely, absolutely, it was real cool.

And you were saying earlier she was so perfect as BIG's mom because she's kind of a big person herself.

Big presence, Yeah, intimidating and kind of aloof to where you can't read her. It makes such perfect sense for his character that he has a mom like that that he kind of caters to. You know, it's super interesting.

I did a production of The Crucible on Broadway and with his credit it was Yeah, Laurea Lenny Liams an amazing, amazing production and Brian the great actor Brian Murray was in it. Who is Marian's best friend. And Marian came to see the show and I said, oh God, I hope Marian likes it. And he said, well, if she doesn't, you're never going to know. I was like, what a great thing, because she's such a gracious, warm human being. She gives great backstage. You know, she's not there to

So you also said when I saw you at the party, and I was I just looked at you. I didn't even say anything, I don't think, and You're like, I'm coming on the podcast. I was like, thank god, because I've just been waiting. I'd just been waiting ran you'd come. And you said, I have so many memories of Cynthia Michael and I think you said Sarah too, So even though you weren't super close, do you remember those early days, because she remembers.

Yeah, I just remember how lucky I felt. She had done a play at Lincoln Center, and she, even though she doesn't remember anything, she remembers meeting me, which is a terribly flattering more than I do. She met me on the stairs of Lincoln Center, and I think it was what was what year?

Was the first season we filmed? In ninety seven. I didn't come on til ninety eight.

Yeah, yeah, wow, Yeah, So we were really good pals by then. I think I remember being very glad that my stuff was with Cynthia because I had become the kind of friend with Sarah at that point that that I would have been.

Uh.

I think I would have been more intimidated by taking my clothes off in front.

I mean, that would be weird, and she would too.

I mean she has we both know, and I'm sure you've said many times she's an incredibly shy, discreet person that she is not Carrie Bradshaw, which is a testament to her just brilliant acting.

Chops absolutely and in my mind just sidebar because you know her so well. I believe that that's one of the things that makes Carrie so interesting. Yeah, is Sarah's own differences from the character and that kind of internal conflict that that comes, and also that kind of friction playing a character so long. Also, she just makes her so deep.

Yeah, so deep, so so deep. She's very all of you.

It's like time has been so kind to those characters, and you guys have too, Like you're it's like every it's like you see it in your shoulders. Everybody is just so relaxed, even when they're playing the most fraught moments on the show. There's such a relaxation watching and the newcomers as well, Oh, I know are just it's such a lovely family now.

It's really really great to say.

But going back, I remember being glad it was Cynthia, not because I didn't want to work with you or with Sarah.

I didn't know.

You, and I knew Sarah in a way that would have been like, oh man, I don't want to have to pretend to bang her.

I know that would be very weird. You know. I had to kiss Matthew in a movie wow after the show ended. So I had known him for many years and I kept saying, this is so weird, and he was like, no, it isn't. I was like, all right, Matthew, not weird at all. Okay, I didn't have to have sex, thank god, because I don't know how I would have gone through it.

Yeah, that would be weird to kiss Matthew. Yeah, but Matthew's got that thing. Like a couple of times I've seen Matthew nervous because I have directed him.

It's weird to see Matthews.

Matthew has lovely blood pressure maintenance, like he knows how to in his work be very still and very calm.

That's true and scary.

Yeah, it's scary. It can intimidate the other person. Yes, that's yeah.

I'm like trying to juggle kittens meeting and Matthew's like, why don't you just sit here and we'll do the scene.

It's like that totally Okay.

We got off on a Matthew tangent, which is rare because almost no one has Matthew's story.

Oh my goodness, I have to you should get Matthew on this podcast.

I don't think he'll do it. I mean every time I see him, I'm just like and he's like, oh God, there she comes.

You'll get it, You'll get it.

Maybe that would be awesome because I love to hear the memories of the beginning. And that's part of the reason I wanted to do the podcast is because everyone was in such different places, coming from such different worlds. I mean, even Cynthia and Sarah who had worked together, known each other their whole lives almost still very different experiences, and then we all came together in this kind of crazy thing that just formed a.

New and yeah, and everybody has what do they call it? You know a sprie descalier, which is the French expression for spirit of the staircase, the thing you like if you and I are in a big fight and on my way home, what I should have said to her was, you know you remember the thing? So you have this odd twenty twenty hindsight with the show, like you always thought or somehow knew that it could be what it has become.

And no, not at all. Yeah, never in a million years.

You know who could have jumped?

Okay, I know this is you interviewed, but now you signed on. Were you like gung ho?

Yeah?

Oh I'm the most gung home. Yeah, I'm the most gung host still to this day.

Well that's fantastic.

But in the beginning, because I was in La right, but I had been an out of work actor here right after I went to records right with Bill Asper and everybody.

So yeah, brilliant, brilliant Bills, I know.

Incredible, And I moved here like everybody did, and we were poor and you know, you waitress and you auditioned and whatnot, which is hard to be poor here, absolutely right. And then I went out to Berkeley. I did a play and it was pilot season my agent said, come down to LA on Mondays because there's so many parts you could play, because I was still playing pretty young at that point, and I was young, and I was playing even younger.

Do you play you were doing?

I was doing Oh my god, Oh my god, my god, I'm not.

Going to Berkeley Rep. Yes, that's where I was when I couldn't do your podcast.

I was doing the production of Uncle Vanya with Hugh Bonneville at Berkeley brilliant Speed of Light.

Oh yeah, I feel like I don't.

I feel like I know that play and if you gave me more time, I would know who wrote it right now.

It's a it's a great playwright who I think went to records. Yeah, yeah, my god, we have to look this up. Anyway, I was there, which was incredible. It's a special, special place. I love Berkeley Rep much. It was great. It was great. But I went down to La. It was sunny. I auditioned for sitcoms. I was like, m, this seems an easier life than then the New York City as a poor person, right, it's more work than and now it's totally floating, which is so sad, But

But hey, yeah, not no other show pre Sopranos. You were it, right, So yeah, I've been a couple of those dream.

On and also Larry Sanders, yes, which was obviously, but that's what I thought. We would be a small cult like very industry you know, loved show and which has lived on of course because it's so great, right, it's.

Weirdly, it's still that what you just described. It's also just a global phenomenon as well.

Yeah, exactly, which is a weird. Like it's a very weird and wonderful thing that happened. But in my gut I felt the potential. I never could have dreamt two movies and another there is no precedent to that, so that wouldn't have come. But to me, I felt, yes, it's very special and I will do whatever I have

Really recognize, like, oh, I've got a think I relate to this part. That's incredible because it's like all of you were born to play those.

Parts, you know.

I know, we're so lucky that we found I do remember in the early days of casting. I remember so so so Sarah and I certainly were hanging out enough to where she would talk to me about people that she was interested in for I think was probably Symanthic, because I think Cynthia was in early on.

I mean, Cynthia wasn't, but she didn't feel she was in, like they kept her dangling, do you.

Know what I mean?

And then I remember at one point they were talking about hiring like a stand up comic or whatever from Miranda, like they didn't know what to do, you know.

Yeah, And now that I'm really thinking about it, your brilliant casting director Jennifer Macnami.

Yes, but I don't think we had her for the pilot. I think we had Kerry Barton.

Kerry Barton, Kerry carry.

Jennifer when the show started, it was so great.

And Jennifer's assistant, I think on that first season was my old college friend, Camille Hickman is her name, And Camille now works at Lincoln Center and she's one of the great casting directors in New York. And she and I had been best buddies at Fordham University, where I had gone some ten years before Sex in the City, and she would talk to me about this show is so exciting and it's so weird and odd.

I don't know if anybody's going to see it.

And I also remember very vividly Camille had a small part as one of the talking yes because did you do.

Talking heads through the whole first season?

Yes, And I mean we just Sarah Jessica just looks at the camera. In the last episode I watched which is in the second season, and you know she hated it. Oh yeah, she hated it so much. But she looks at the camera and then she makes a face which I think was about having to talk to the camera.

Of course, do you have you I'm sure you've probably talked about it on the show. When was that decision made, like we don't need.

To do this.

I feel like it was an ongoing thing. Michael Patrick hated. Oh he did the talking to the camera. Melfie hated the people on the.

Street sidebar John Melfie who went to Ford him with me and Camille. So I knew Melfie some ten twelve years. Malfie and I'd known each other forty something years.

I don't even know this incredible Malfie is the unsung hero of our whole entire world. I told him in Paris that he's got to come on the podcast. He looked a little scared, because I think he likes his secrets to remain on camera.

Nobody knows more stories and knows where more bodies are buried.

John Melphie.

I know that's why I got to get him in that chair. You better believe, right, I know I got to loosen him up and get him in the chair. But he would tell everything about everything, which would be great. But he when he came he said his secret mission was to get rid of the talking heads, and Sarah Jessica's very open mission was to get rid of talking to the camera, because I remember in the pilot her saying, you know, do I have to talk to the camera. It's so strange to break the fourth wall. I'm in

That's amazing. I did not know it went on that long. And frankly, I don't remember her doing it. I remember more of the side people yeah doing it than which is kind.

Of interesting, and I think trying to be almost like an anthology or like, you know, relating to the fact that all kind of people are having all kinds of relationship things that you don't know about, right like the people on the street, This one's going to tell you something surprising. That one's going to tell you something surprising. I get the idea of, but it was taking story time away from the bigger stories here.

Well, you have twenty five minutes to pack four stories.

In, right, Yeah, which is hard.

Yeah, speaking of my partner, Jeff. He's a comedy writer, wrote Modern Family for all eleven years, and he's like, the hardest thing that there's eleven characters on that show and they have twenty two minutes. And that makes me think about writers like Michael Patrick and all the great writers.

It's true, And I mean, I don't want to spend much on this, but sometimes when you see people's criticism, you're like, oh, do they know how hard it is?

Yeah? Yeah, you know they don't. Yeah, no they don't.

And you know, I think back to that first season because I think we were recently overseas and sometimes you know, a show will be on like an older versions of shows, And I watched a few episodes and this was long before you and I talked about doing this. But what I remember when I was watching, it's like, Wow, not only was it good, it got more sophisticated, it got more maybe clever. It was always super smart. But before

It's true. That's what I'm so surprised about when I watched the first season.

Were you was it were some? Was it was? It was? It?

Was it first season nerve wracking? Or were you more nervous when it became so successful? Because some times, you know, it's scarier when there's a lot of responsibility, like yuah, oh, where we're let's not blow this right, you know right?

I think for me, because there's a whole long story I'm not going to bore you with because all of our listeners have heard it in my first episode of the podcast, when I so I signed in my mind, Sara Jessica did not sign a big deal, a big pilot deal, which I didn't know about, And it's good that I didn't about because I would have been super nervous that she wasn't sewed up for like seven years, right, But I did sign one. But then during the pilot,

Thank you. Heny tried to do this during all your ship. Well that that's awful, I know, thank you. Yeah, what it suggests is that you don't have the cough like that.

I'm not. You're not seeing I'm.

Trying to cut corners. You're like, wait a minute, Yeah, I know.

So I knew this, Brandon, tell you, I'm executives. I know, and no one will take responsibility.

Somebody knew.

Somebody knew. I think those people aren't with us anymore. Yeah, whatever. So I haven't gotten to the absolute bottom of it, but I have. It's been very therapeutic. For me to talk about it, because I'd never realize that. I never told Sarah, I never told Cynthia. I never talked about it except to my team. Because what I did was this line producer knocked on my door, just hand me this paper and said you need to sign this. And I was like, oh, what's this and I read. I

Brilliant loves this lawyer every day.

I know Jason Sloan incredible daughter Charlotte.

For that.

So he says, it's not going to me, but whatever, I still love it. So every day they would knock and every day I'd be like, oh, I'm sorry, I forgot. You know, I'm a good girl, like so like it took a lot from me. That's how badly I wanted to stay on that show as a series regular.

I have to say, it's not an un Charlotte storyline. I know, Yeah, that's like, that's the story Michael. I would write for her totally. It's so like her and she'd be crafty. But it would seem like it was under the guise of like, oh mind, yeah.

Right, I can do that. I can actually do that in life. It's kind of amazing what happened to me. And what I saw when I looked back at the first season was that inside I had the anxiety of not being good. Oh of course, I mean yeah, And it did work with Charlotte in a lot of ways. And also Michael told me when he came on, he thought, oh, I don't know how to write for that character. So I was the one who wanted to get married, right, and so it took him a while to understand me

You know, wow, yeah, nobody else does.

I'm just trying to walk in those heels, in those outfits back in.

Fall Down and look like I belong here back in La But you know, I've talked to and I'm sure Sarah Jessica would would would has probably talked about this with you on this podcast. But like every season you guys start every movie, I will talk to her in the first four days and She'll be like, I don't know what I'm doing, I can't I feel so, I don't know how to do this, and I'm not good at this.

And like you, that never goes away. True, no matter how iconic you guys are, It's true.

You never lose that, and you should We shouldn't of course. It's the thing that keeps us alive to act too, Like.

Why else would you want to do such a crazy thing if it didn't bring all the feelings and.

Challenge us totally?

That's what we love.

Yeah, and there's real no.

Sense of security that's born out of this kind of success. In fact, sometimes the very opposite as we talked about, can happen.

It can make you a little more kind of.

That's true for me because I started out at the crazy place of like are they going to keep me or not? It did just get better.

And you did that first season and then where you sort of.

Like you had to wait and see if they were going to fire me.

I'm sorry I lost that. I probably interrupted you. You really even when that first season was over how many episodes thirteen? Yeah, you were like, didn't know, maybe I'll come back, maybe I won't exactly, Holy.

Crap, I know. And I didn't tell any of them, which is crazy to me that I didn't tell them, do you know what I mean? But I think that if I thought that, if they knew, they'd be like, oh, yeah, maybe you're not going to have which of course they wouldn't have, but like I just didn't have the security in it all yet.

Yeah, yeah, totally.

So I was just on this like h exactly, didn't.

Know if it was coming back much less you know, it wasn't.

No, we didn't know anything. I didn't know any thing, right, So it was all good And then they were then they were like, yes, yes, we do need it.

I was like, thank you God, thank you. Was it a rating success its first season?

You know what? No one ever spoke about the rating?

Yeah, those metrics are still to this day.

I know, right, But I mean for me, I'd come from network where like Monday morning you went in and everyone was like, oh five point eight to ten point whatever. No one cared. I'd be like, does anyone know if anyone's watching it? They didn't care. You know what they cared about. They cared about press. They wanted press hits. Like we worked hard in the beginning. We talked to anyone and everyone who would talk to us, because it was the traditional press back then. Right, they didn't have

You don't, I mean, that's never gone away because it's a show about you know, about the people in New York City and the way they dress all of you, and so that's a big.

Part of the show. The press is a very big part of the show.

It is it is, and thank god they still write about us.

Yeah, oh god, yeah, as well they should. You mentioned those big hats in that first season. I wonder if they were as big as that hat that Sarah has all nothing.

Nothing is as big as that hat.

Thing is god that I'm sure people are probably talking about that.

They go everywhere just a blanket. It's a great, It was a great, it's beyond.

She has the most incredible knack for dressing of any individual I've ever seen. And obviously she does not dress like Carrie, which I think is a big, big misconception, but her sense of how and what and when and like, it's like magic. Watching it. It's incredible.

It's really, it's really amazing. I directed Sarah, Jessica and Matthew in this Broadway revival of Plaza Suite.

Yeah.

Yeah, And I'm just bringing up all of my career. I love to do it, but I it was just amazing watching them work together and how extraordinarily different they are as performers and people, and what kind of chemistry

Yet really Molly's not actually knew she's been here.

Molly was the path and that's one of the reasons why she's doing such a great, great job is because she has a history.

With Definitely, I mean trust her so much, but she's so Molly's also really into the details, like the two of them can just go down the rabbit hole of like how something was woven or whatever.

It's very Do you spend a lot of time in wardrobe fittings before each season?

Oh yeah, we all do. I mean there's there's a lead up. Yeah, there's a lead up like prep. But then also during the you know, it doesn't it's never very big part of it. And I used to kind of kick in screaming. Now I'm like, yeah, I love it, Yeah, yeah, exactly, surrender. I love it. You were so spoiled.

It's such a It's as you said earlier, like you know, I would have I might have thought it could or could not be a hit, But never in a million years would I have imagined what did happen because it's unprecedented exactly because it's never happened, there's.

No model for us. And that's partly what I love is well. And people can feel all different ways about the first movie, the second movie, the new show, whatever, I don't care, because to me, we are just creating and creating and creating. And I know that we're creating from such a sense of love and respect for each other and the fact that we love to be together and to make a show that people can relate to. And you know, our eye has never been on like

We love absolutely and and that and that you did it on this little wild, wild West furthest place in the frontier HBO that then became HBO that we know today.

Incredible.

And this show, which was so blue as and where we started, you know, was so r rated, has become this thing that people have passed down to their children and said, watch this. This is New York City, this is friendship, right, this is yeah.

Right, I know, it's it's incredible, It's really well. I just want to say, I'm so happy that you're a small but brilliant part of it.

I was naked in the show, so let's not use the word small.

You were mighty fine behind mighty fine. But also, wouldn't it be incredible if we could bring Catholic Guy back? Oh my god, where's Kavla Guy?

I really do every now and then I've said to Michael Patrick, like not even about me, Like it would be nice to see a couple more of the old timer's, but.

Like what happened to them, because they're such vivid, vivid characters.

Who was the brilliant I'm sorry, I wish I knew his name because I'm such a big fan of his.

The guy who played Scooter in the first season.

Yeah, what is that guy's name? We never. I don't know where he is. He's very good, Oh he was.

He was very good, unique and odd, like a puppy.

A little puppy. But that is just mean to him.

Genius casting all through it. Ben Webber, web Ben Weber. But you know when you mentioned Kyle, brilliant Kyle, because you and Evan are so brilliant together. I almost feel like you've been together forever.

But no, Look, we've been together a long long time.

Yeah, long time.

But there was Kyle before him, absolutely incredibly vivid and wonderful as well, just very very different, incredibly Yeah, I've been so incredibly lucky before that. There was so many guys. Charlotte had so many guys.

Yeah, and you're not going to We're not going to see Kyle show up at the end of the season.

You'll never tell.

I don't know. I don't know, but we we discussed some things, but we you know, this is the thing. Harry and Charlotte are the last couple of so I don't know that we want to mess.

They so know each other. That's what I love about watching them.

They they people who've been together at the You know, you may may hate each other at times, you may bore this out of each other. You know the other person, warts and all. And that's what's great about the writing for those two characters. They really they really look at each other and they see each other.

I agree, I agree, Hickey. I knew it would be incredible, is it?

Okay?

This is the catching up with friends you delivered and then so to honor a real.

Thrill and an honor to be here, to have known you and admired you for so many years now and that it's still going on.

I know, it's incredible. I'm so happy that you're with us. Love to see you always. Let's get Catholic guy back. Just hang out with us, doing my squats.

I was doing my squats. The butt is still kind of perfect.

Okay, all right, thank you so much.

The Constans Disco Basias