Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte? Hey, everybody, welcome back to Are You a Charlotte? Today we are rewatching Time and Punishment, which is from season four, episode seven, and we have a super fun guest. Paget Brewster is on Criminal Minds for a really really long time and also so many other fun things. She was on Friends, she had her own talk show called The Paget Show. She has a lot of sex and the city knowledge, and she's a super fan.
So enjoy Paget. Thank you for joining us. It's so exciting.
Thank you for having me. This is so exciting for me and a little scary.
Oh don't be screw.
And the show have had such a massive impact on my life that it's like, don't meet your heroes, And I'm kind of scared, but I'm so excited to be doing this. Thank you so much for asking me.
Well, we're so excited to have you, and I I mean I just probably just start by telling us like when you say an impact on your life, like tell us what you mean, and also like have you also done other podcasts where you have broken down and just like that, like I need to hear all the different.
Things I did. Some friends of mine, Paul F. Tompkins and Jenny had Ed Tompkins, did a podcast about and just like that, and they were it was just them at home. They would have what they call weekend water, so they would drink a little bit and do a podcast about and just like that.
Oh God.
And I would listen to their podcast and be like, how do they not know about Ray? And like they weren't they they weren't remembering everything. And I've watched Sex and the City every episode, every season, five times through twice just with my husband. So it's it's uh. But I also think the show Sex and the City opened doors for women acting at a time when it had really gone away, and so I've been able to maintain a career for thirty five years. I'm fifty seven. When
I was thirty two, I thought, oh, it's over. It's over. I see if they touched money as I could exactly. But I think because of the success of Sex and the City, it showed executives and networks and writers that women could carry the show and do extremely well, and so I think it opened up casting for women over thirty five Suddenly.
Which is amazing and wonderful, and I hope that it continues and could continue even more because sometimes from my perspective, I do remember when when they were sending this script around, you know, and everyone was auditioning and whatnot, that it was shocking, right, like, oh my god, you know, there's really no men, right, like, that's how the script of the pilot looked, you know what I'm saying, as opposed to say Melrose or you know where I had been.
But there were equal men and women, and it was super soapy, right. This was a new entity, a new version of a show, and it was very risky and we did not know, We really did not know if
it was gonna work. I was talking to someone about this other day because I remember in the beginning, any press that wanted to talk to us, we would just be like, okay, and we didn't like we would just tell them everything in the beginning because we were just so desperate to get press, which is laugh out loud funny now, right, like you know.
But at the time, yeah, it was a totally different situation and different like world where we were in charge kind of, you know, the characters were in charge and.
As opposed to being on an equal men and women or mostly male and the women were wives, girlfriends, yeah, daughters period.
Yes, But I.
Think in the seventies and eighties there were a lot of female shows like Golden Girls and Goldie Girls, but then into the eighties Designing Women. But there had been Mary Tyler, Moore, Rota. There had been all of these shows in the seventies and eighties, and it felt like the end of the eighties. Beginning in the nineties, it
stopped until you guys showed up. That's good. There was like a dead space for about seven years, I think, where executives and networks were not doing shows primarily featuring women, right, women were supporting.
It's also about like who is the show for, right, So like like Golden Girls, Designing Women were for women, Murphy Brown for women, right, I mean for everyone, but for women, and in a way where you feel like, yes, you're honored as a consumer, right, You're honored as like someone who wants to buy things and whatever. And we know all the statistics that women are a very powerful group of consumers. But for a while that was kind of forgotten. And then when we came along and this
was kind of an annoying thing. But when we came along, you know, we had to really like fight hard in the beginning to you know, first of all, just state what we were right, because people were super confused, like, you know, are you prostitutes? Like are you like what's happening? Because of having sex in the title and they didn't know the column right, so not everyone had the understanding,
the basic understanding. I remember just like literally describing like no, we all work, and you know, I had someone ask me I was wearing our hat, our first season rap hat, and they thought that I was on Real Sex, which was like that late night HBO show. Right, yeah, that was you know, kind of porn.
It wasn't it like a not a reality show. Yeah no, it was like it was like real people and fetishes.
Yes, yeah, it was ahead of its time, okay for sure, yes, but that is not the show that we were trying to do, right. We would have to like it's a comedy, but then it wasn't a sitcom and there was no laugh track and there was no audience, and it was single camera but also dramedy kind of know, we had very dramatic. It was a whole different entity, but the other thing that I feel now, I mean now, we have had wonderful shows like Insecure, we have I Love La.
You know, there are elements where you can say, oh, yes, I think all of those were HBO, But it didn't spawn this kind of wider revival that I expected it to spawn in terms of like different women's voices on shows.
Do you know I felt like I was able to continue acting because of the success of Sex and the City and that there was a greater creation of roles for women that were multi dimensional and they had failings. And I have to ask you, when did you start to feel like, oh, everyone gets it now, they know what we're doing and who we are. When did you feel secure that the show was successful and everyone got it and you and you guys had put this baby out into the world and it was and it was Bill loved.
Yeah. Third season, third season, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that late.
Yeah.
People laugh when I tell them, they were like, no, it was a big hit. No, I mean it was. We were We were very known in New York, right because we were like getting all the actors that were on Broadway, and we were making a big effort, and you know, you had law and order and then you had us, right, So actors knew about us, and New York City people knew about us, but we didn't feel like the world knew about us. And I don't think
that we expected the world to know about us. Like we were going to do our best, you know, we were going to try to live up to the hopes that HBO had, right, you know, we wanted to do our job right, but we never really expected like wide widespread success. So it was just kind of, you know, shocking and also kind of really in some ways hard
to take in. And I would say third season because third season is when we got nominated for an Emmy, which we never never, never, never never thought would happened, Like never thought what happened because Cable at that point was weird, right, Like the Sopranos hadn't won yet, we had won our Golden Globe, and we were just like like you're in the headline, like what are we doing here?
Like literally like what planet have we landed on? Like when they called our names, we were just like, what we have to stand up in front of all this movie stars? Oh my god, you know what I mean. Like it was just shocking and had rained that day of the Golden Globe, so my hairs, Like we were a hot mess, you know, we were like little children, like at the grown up party, you know what I mean. But then and that was cool, right, But the Golden
Globes were like their own weird entity. But we didn't really think that the Emmys, who were definitely you know, the Award for Television obviously very mainstream, we didn't expect that to ever happen much less third season. And I remember when my mom called me and I was like, oh, why are you calling me so early because we would work all night, right, she was calling me and tell me that we got an eminated for Amy And I was like, god, you know what I mean.
Your mother, no one, your agent, your she beat them, She beat them to Your mom beat everyone to it.
She excited, She was very excited, you know what I mean. But yeah, she she beat everybody to it. I did think that maybe my mom was mistaken, even do you know what I mean? Like I was your mom, like what are you sure? And you know this is the olden day flip phone cell phone right where I was like, oh no, someone else is calling. I don't even know how to click over and then I realized, oh no, it is actually actually real, Like what the heck, Like
it's insane, but I didn't even then. It was hard to really take it in, you know, it was hard to take it in to a lot of extent, Like rewatching is really helping me to understand like what we created did it in a different way, right, Like I
loved what we did. I was, you know, extremely committed to what we were doing, right, And I love all of our writers and all of our actors, and you know, I've been die hard the whole time, right, But sometimes when you're out in the world and people have like such strong, strong feelings, I would be like, whoah, you know, but now that I'm rewatching, first of all, each episode
is so good. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. And then second of all, like I was traveling a bit and I took time off from rewatching, and then I came back and like the warmth that you feel when you watch it is real, you know, Like even for me, I got to kind of experience when people say like, oh, you're my comfort watch. Oh you're like my friends. I'm like yeah, and obviously they are my friends, but still I'm like, oh, I'm home and I can watch my show.
You know, it's oh my gosh, that's great.
Really fully get it before, because I think I was. You know, you're just trying to move forward to write and not get too stuck in the commentary, right, because like, wherever there's good commentary, there's also bad commentary. And I didn't want to. I don't want to go to too deep into it. But now I can really, you know, thirty years later, I can really appreciate it.
Yeah, but there are other shows, I think, and I think you've been on all of them. Friends, yeah, yes, Seinfeld. Yeah, Sex and the City are series that you rewatch and you cannot believe every episode You're like, wait a minute, this this is the A, B and C story because in my memory, yeah, each story is its own episode.
Like it it's true, it's true. That's some writing, right, I mean some good writing. Like that's such really what I come away with.
It's crazy this episode that we're talking really good. Well, this is huge for me because I choose my choice.
Oh my god, class, it's.
Like a major part of it's in my head. I would say, I've said it either out loud or in my head. Minimum once a month, usually every week, and in different ways, in the way that Charlotte is saying defensively, I choose my choice. And it can be that is she convincing herself or is she convincing them? And it can be armor like I choose my choice. It can be validation like that just that sentence, I choose my choice. I know it's good, Okay, No, I don't want to
go to Larry's birthday party. I don't have to go to Larry's birthday party. And I choose my choice that I need to stay home and cook that day. I choose my choice. And so it's like a big I.
Had remembered that because I loved it, but I had not remembered the bigger picture that it's in, which is that the entire episode I'm struggling, you know, Charlotte is struggling with the decision. And also basically all of them are like no, like I had fully forgotten that, you know what I'm saying, Like I didn't really remember in
my mind. I remember a lot, but I don't always remember it chronologically correctly, right, like I would have put this later, you know, like in the fifth season or something like I thought it had to do with Harry or I don't know what I thought it had to do with. I remember being I remember filming it, and
I remember being very nervous about it. Like there's some things that stand out to me, because you know, Charlotte is a very specific character, right, and she's not me, even though I know it's very confusing and it seems like it's me. I get it, obviously, you're an actress who's played that character for a very long time, which I want to talk about, so I'm sure you understand.
But so like she's a part of me, but she's not really me, right, And so I live a very different life that is not so concerned with traditions, you know, and for her, for Charlotte, because these are her friends, you know, she might not have as much kind of throaty defiance or whatever to them, do you do?
You know what I mean?
So, like my pitch is a little hot, you know, and especially in the first coffee shop scene where I'm talking to them about it, and I'm like, I'm just thinking that I'm gonna quit the job.
You know, I've noticed that well, because I think and there's the pediatric unit. It is your voice is higher.
Your voice is higher.
Usually the sign of insecurity or lying. And so the question is are you you're you're outstanding in this? I I You're so great, You're great in all of them. But this really is like a I was so excited when I got the email. Watch this and I'm like, what, I choose my choice because it's such a great and every storyline is great, but but it is these tropes of Miranda not being able to relax and and so much so that her neck goes out. She's shouting at you.
And what is the relationship with Aiden and Carrie, and what does it mean to Charlotte to give up the gallery? And and that that's the tradition before we get to Harry later, which is now she chooses Judaism to be with a man she loves, and it's those traditions right that then become a big But there's Charlotte's not one dimensional.
There are moments where I can't remember what episode it is, where Carrie is saying, you have Charlotte says something really profound, and there's a Carrie voiceover of sometimes out of Charlotte's mouth comes the thing that.
Is the wisdom and then and then you say, is my hair too shiny today? That's first seasons, the first season. Yeah, that was one of my moments where I realized and I knew in my I felt in my gut that Charlotte had so much potential for growth and change, right, but that little encapsulated, you know, couple it basically with carrying the voiceover. That was it. I was like, that is it? Thank God they get it, you know what I'm saying. We can go, Oh, we can go from this,
you know. And it was so much fun because it's always fun with Sir Jessica too, right, because we know each other so well, And I love that so much because it is you can make fun of her, you know what I'm saying, Like she is ripe for making fun of but at the same time, she's not really wrong, you know what I mean.
And she's also earnest. Yes, Charlotte is so earnest that you can't argue with her reasoning. I mean, you her friends do, right, because they see marriage differently, individuality differently, careers differently. But yeah, I got I'm glad it was that early on because I also being on I've been on this show criminal minds on. I was off for four years, but I've been on it. Basically, we're shooting
season twenty wow in a month wow. But I don't remember episodes the way fans do, right, so I remember things about episodes that you were working. You were working gang, right, there's no space in your brain because to make an hour long show is five, you know, five to eight fifteen hour days.
So right, oh, that's what we were doing too.
It was I, Oh, I heard, I heard the wardrobe changes were, which I appreciate as a fan. I think all of fashion appreciation the fact that but that's a big turnaround scene by seeing you guys had to do like major.
We did, right, It was like an hour show or like a movie every two weeks because we'd shoot two episodes at once. Do you guys do that or you're just one? Okay?
Right?
We had to crossboard because of locations right in the city, so we would have one director who'd be doing two. It wasn't that bad because like they were two consecutives, so it wasn't that hard, you know what I'm saying. That's why it was more like shooting an hour, right, because even though you did have like one storyline and one and one storyline and the other they were they did make sense together, right.
They were related. So it's not like you shot ten episodes like block shot ten episodes.
No, No, that would be yeah.
So you at least know where your character is. Yes, okay, yes, that makes sense.
Also, they would have a plan every season, and Michael Patrick would sit us down and tell us our plan, our emotional arc, so that you knew kind of the bigger picture, which was of course incredibly kind and wonderful. And I didn't realize that all shows didn't do that.
All shows do not do that, right, our showrunner does that. But that just started, you know, I don't know, five six years ago. Interesting, Yeah, that is unusual, right.
And thank god it's so helpful as an actor because then you know, if something is like of higher importance that, okay, I need to dig deeper for this scene, even though I'm just mentioning something. This is a deeper thing that I desperately want, the character desperately wants, or if maybe it's just a little minor thing, you know what I mean, if you were just reading each script, you wouldn't know because of course in our show. Also now we're into
the longer relationships. But in the beginning, they were all these guys that were just coming through. And the only time that I can remember that I had to reshoot something was from the first season, very early on, like maybe episode two or three, where it's so embarrassing this guy wants is the I don't want to be the missus up the butt scene? Yes, oh God help us.
And so to me, I'd been an acting class for a decade, right or more before this, and you know they all talk about steaks, right, like your stakes have to be so tatake, right. Yeah, And for comedy that's like strangely important, right, because how do you get that level of behavior deep stakes?
Right?
So I was teary when I'm telling the guy, like I what to do it? And Darren comes to me and he's like, you don't care, and I'm like what, I don't care? What what? And he goes, oh, there's another guy around the corner, And I'm like, wait, what what? Because first of all, as a person, I'm not really like that. But second of all, I didn't think Charlotte was like that, right, Like I thought Carrie and Samantha were like super cool and there's another guy around the corner.
But I thought Charlotte was like deeply invested, and she kind of was right. He was just trying to say in his mind, he knew we were going to have a guy a week, right, a guy an episode, So we can't meet teery about everyone.
Right right, right? It's two high stakes.
Yes, So I had to like back backpedal and reshoot something where I was just like I don't want to do it, turning mean.
Interesting, right, I get it. Wow, I didn't. That's thank you for telling me that. That's like inside, I didn't know that you reshot that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember reshooting anything else that I that I can think of, and I remember being like, you know, you're very thrown off as an actor when you have to reshoot something. You're like, oh my god, what did I do wrong? But then when he said it, I was like, oh yeah, I was totally playing it like this guy could be my husband. And then now he's not going to because I don't want to do what he once like. I was doing the high stakes that I thought I was supposed to be doing.
You were doing what you were doing, what you were trained to exactly.
It's in a lot with a longer form knowledge of where Charlotte's journey was going, right, it would it would appear manic, It.
Would appear desperate and manic.
Yeah, too desperate.
Yeah, that would not work out every episode. And I don't think it would be funny.
It might be too upsetting profoundly that you're crying. And then when later on when you go to the dating seminar with Carrie and Carry's like, no, she's out there, you know, you know just this that you're really looking for him. Yeah, but but it can't be that's a really tough that's a really tough line to keep acting, Yeah, flawlessly, which was she wants what she wants, she knows why
she's you know. And then when Trey comes along, it's it's the night and shining, it's the answer to all the and she's so invested in it, ready to go and and it and it falls apart. But you can't be so desperate that you're to be the other book, right, that's the end of your romantic journey. But that's a very very hard you think, and you executed it flawlessly.
Well, it's funny to watch this one because, like for me, I saw what I remember about the I choose my choice as I remember being really nervous, but I didn't really remember why because I'm on the phone, right, and we would always make an effort to have the other actor be be on the set so that you, oh my god, really yeah, I know, I know, I never get there, I know, right, I know it says such
a difference to journy, mean, like such a gens. I mean, it wouldn't always work because we had crossboarded, right, So occasionally we'd be double like our other two episodes would go over and people would be off somewhere else, like we'd have two units going. So sometimes we'd have our scripture supervisor, but we knew them really well, right, so
that helped. But often we would if it was an important phone call, we would have the other person on the other side of the flat, you know, basically right.
So, so Cynthia was there.
I think, so yeah, I'd have to check with her, but I think she was, which I think is good because I had not remembered that. It was as much of an argument as it was.
Why don't you ask your husband? I know it's so mean, right, but if you had it but if it wasn't her, you guys can't you guys can't have that moment without hearing the other person's right vocal intonation.
Right, because it wasn't like a regular phone call, you know what I mean.
Okay, so this helps me, This helps me recognize, Okay, maybe I'm not dropping the ball in my acting. You guys had a you know, because I could only hope is it going to cut together? Because I don't know how they would do it. We only get to hear each other at a table read.
One right, right, It's hard. That's hard. Makes it harder, Yeah, it makes it harder, I think too for us because anytime any of the characters argued, it was always slightly scary, you know, because we cared so much about the friendships working, and that was a goal of ours and the show in general, and you know, that was like our mission in a lot of ways. But it's not really realistic if you don't have arguments.
Yeah, no, there's just no depth to the relationship, right, And so that is what actually I think solidified for the audience that you guys were actual friends, is to hold each other accountable for your behavior and your actions and how you know, like Miranda saying to carry in this you and your bullsh bagels, ooh, I know, just to talk about Aiden, and it's you can see that it's true. But even within that fight, do you want to toasted? Yeah, I knew they're hysterical.
I'd totally forgotten about that too. I'd forgotten that this was when the next thing happened. I'd forgotten Aiden goes over there. I mean, this is a phase of the show that I don't have solid memories of each one, right, So I'm rewatching it going like, oh my god, wow, well.
How could you you lived it and you were shooting. You could have been across town shooting something else. There's no way for you.
To know that's true. But I do have a lot of memories, right. But this is about the time that they start to slip a bit. I think because it got overwhelming, right, because of the success. It became that like greater thing where we're going around to different places, countries, photo shoots, award shows, blah blah blah. It was great, it was really fun, but it just became this kind of like no sleep situation.
You know, it's a lot.
Yeah, it was a lot, but It's fun to watch because I don't remember all of it and I think everyone is so good, and I'm also not really sure what's happening. Like even with the Carrie Aiden situation, I don't remember this at all.
Okay, really you don't remember the Big on the Answering Machine.
No, and he's just so ick. Okay, I'm sorry that that phone call. I'm like, right, Like when Aiden says I don't want him calling Hair, I'm like, I don't want him calling Hair.
Yeah, well but it's he ends the message with call me baby.
Baby's very proprietary, I know, Like, no wonder Aiden's upset. Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh. When Aiden says I don't want you to see him and she's like, well, I can't do that, I'm like, no, Carrie, you need to say you won't. But obviously.
I know. But even knowing, But here's what's crazy is the episodes immediately after that are up in the country in so right, and then he and b Big shows up in the.
Which is great, she can reach me but I.
Can never reach out right, But then they end up with this like what is it Green Arrow Spider Man fight.
Something so crazy where it Carrie's like, I don't know who that is.
Yeah, and then they get along. It's such, it's it's it's great writing. Yeah, it feel you do have to accept like a suspension of yeah, disbelief. That's a suspension of belief that that these two this soon could gel as men understanding each other while she's in the room, after everything that's happened. It's true.
And you're not the first person to tell me that, And I do kind of see your point. But the thing that I thought, and I of course I know everyone involved, so it is so hard to be objective, right, But the thing that I thought, and I'm not a man, I could be so wrong, right, But like men have, you know, these complicated things they have to do in life where their have to be like super macho and clan their territory and whatever or they think they have
to or whatever. But then I felt that they had this slow burn going on, like as you very clearly see in this scene right where you know, big calls in what I think is just such a jerk, a jerk move, right, Like this phone call message is like thick, right, and of course it's meant to do exactly what it does. Which is you know that's mine, right, and then Aiden's there in like the worst situation, and then they can't
talk about it, et cetera. So of course Aiden has like a it's just going to fan that flame of him being upset about the previous you know, cheating obviously. And so in my mind, when I watch the fight that eventually happens in the country, it's because they actually get to fight, because how rare is that in life that you actually get to fight it out? Right, Like it doesn't happen that often, thank god, right, thank god.
Fighting is never good. But because they fight, it kind of like it's a Catharsis for those guys, yes, and then they could just sit there and chat, you know. I mean I kind of I kind of bought it, but that's the way.
I don't know. Yeah, no, I'm I it's it's a series, it's a it's a it's stories. But it makes sense to me, And I think that's why it's so enduring, is that, yeah, they fight it out and then the steam is let out of.
The right and you can see them as another person, right, Like that's another sassion. And because Big is so all messed up about this actress. You know, aiden can kind of see oh he's a mess too, right, Like.
Hayden's got the girl, right, and this guy's a mess, right, so he can look at like, ugh what okay? Right?
And I had not really remembered any of this, so it's really interesting to me how they're gonna get it all back together. But I guess we'll find out. But
let's talk about this episode. Okay. So first of all, one thing too you're talking about you said something about traditions the thing that made me laugh too, And this is a minor storyline obviously, but Samantha storyline about the puby care, Oh yeah, I mean it's so foreshadowing, right, Like now I think all young men trim and right, which is great, of course, But it's funny that in this episode, you know, this guy's like, oh wow, and look look at I'm not going to say his words,
but you know, he's he's pleased with the outcome, but it's turning things upside down in the traditions of it all because it was and I guess I don't know if it still is, Like I don't know what the young ladies are doing down there either, right, I don't know, because there was a while where maybe it was supposed to be more natural, but then maybe maybe maybe not.
I don't know. I don't know. I feel like there was a time when someone was talking about how like seventies bushes back right. I didn't subscribe to that personally, no groom. But I'm not a laser. I don't know. Some people are.
Just no, no, it's all and I uncomfortable. I don't like it. Yeah, I mean I lived through all this with with the show, right, and so we went through every phase. We went through every phase together basically because all of us, the writers and actors, were living through the changes. And I remember when Gwyneth Paltrow did like the Vogue or something and discussed those sisters, the Brazilian sisters who would and said it was life changing. And I was like, wait, what is happening? Oh my god?
And then you were like, Okay, I guess I gotta try it. I don't know this like the pressure, like the like the peer pressure to do it.
Did you do what Brazilian?
I mean, I tried not to, but then that they just wanted to do what they wanted to do, do do what I mean? Right? And then I was like, well, this is horrible, horrible, Oh I feel uncomfortable. I did not I did not dig it. I have to not go back sensitive skin. I did not go back, and in fact, it like scarred me for mentally forever going to those people in general, Like my skin is just not suited for that kind of harsh like e. I have a fourteen year old her and she's like, wait,
they do what they what happens? And I'm like, you don't mean to know, okay.
It's got to be inconceivable to children.
Right, They're very confused, like they take the thing and then they pull it on like yes, and she's like does it I'm like beyond okay, it's not like hurt. It's like, ah, yeah yeah.
I did a home wax. Once I got that, I.
Think nare oh yeah yeah, used to make a wax strip, not just like it was hair removal, right, So it was like I think there was a cream that like immediately gave you like a horrible rash.
Tried to hold that at home. Yes, it's like awful.
Abuse in a sanitarium, right, But then there came out with wax and it was like pieces of paper and you stuck together with a wax, and you warmed it up with your hand and you put it on and you waited until it cooled a little bit, and then you ripped it yourself and in patches. But what was uniform was bruising. I was completely bruised.
Horrible. Do you remember the blue stuff? There was some blue stuff like blue wax, and I bought it and took it home, and like my kitchen just never recovered. There was just blue strings everywhere.
Remember this, did you have to heat it up?
The heated and then like somehow not burn yourself. But also anytime you would take it, it would just be what a nightmare, the things we go through. So I love that storyline, even though it is the lesser storyline, it's such a good storyline. And also she meets him by like getting in his cat and I would never do that. I would never do that. I would not recommend that. But of course she's Samantha and she can
do anything. But that was pretty funny. But the Miranda storyline also like, and this reminds me of like, you know, when when she thinks she's gonna die in the cast to eat her face and when she eats the cake.
Like there are these really really incredibly sweet Miranda storylines where I'm just like, oh my god, I love her so much, you love her so much, And it's also like it's sad, like her neck goes out, but also it's interesting to me that Carrie actually has an actual meeting, but for some reason never tells Miranda that she has this work meeting.
No, she started to say it, and Miranda says.
Thanks bye, and the bars because like Miranda would understand that because we're talking about work in the whole episode, right, but she never hears this, and for me, because.
She's in so much pain.
And then she drops the phone.
As Carrie is trying to say, but I have a meeting with my Miranda goes.
Thanks, bye and bye.
And then she just gets progressively worse. But that is like exactly what you're saying, where her vocal intonations the whole time she's on the ground don't come in, and how like she's so vulnerable and desperate and hurt and yeah, yes, when her defenses are down, you know they're down. He's desperate and just.
Like super strong and then not extra.
Right, yeah, in desperate need of help, and Aiden is the perfect guy to go. I do get that, I know.
And then he wraps her and she holds the rug to cover herself. Yeah, and he says, snug is a bugget a rug.
He walks in, he has the towel and he's like, oh, smells good. That's that downy fresh stuff or something. He's talking about the fabric softener and he puts the towel on time. I looked up who the director was. I've never worked with this person again watching this Michael Angler. Yeah, he does downt Nabby and I think Gilded Age also with Cynthia next time. I'm guessing yes, they probably. Every
single moment serves a purpose. Nothing is lost, nothing is extra, everything is moving the story forward and offering information and insight. Like right, it's an incredibly good episode.
Yes, And we should say that it is written by Jessica Bendinger, who is someone that I don't know which every time we have one by her, I'm like, we must find this woman. She was not one of our writers who was with us all the time, which which most of them were right, right, So it's really interesting. I think this is maybe the third or fourth that
we've had from her, even from the very beginning. But I think she was here in LA and sending scripts, which is not our norm Our normal was you were in New York, you were in the room with us, not even in the room like on the set, you know what I'm saying. Wherever we were on the set present if we wanted to discuss something, they were they were like talk to us, you know, which was so incredible, right as you know, normally they're just off some somewhere
in the writer's room or whatever. But I don't know her, but this is a really really solid, solid episode in every single way. And I think Corbett is so incredibly good. I had totally forgotten about this bartender girl. Who is she? Oh my god? I was like, that is upsetting, Okay, this sometimes I really still have very I have very
Her name is Gretchen Cleveley. She plays Pia. Interesting. She's very good because she's like very in it with Corbett, you know what I mean, Like like the second you see them, they're very lucked in in their scenes with corbettosies.
Yeah, and they're playing Jackson. Yes, Carrie has to introduce her.
I'm sorry, it's super lame, right, Like she's teaching you to play jacks, Like, really, Aiden, you don't know how to play jacks. That's super interesting. Okay, Like every element of it I think is so perfect. And I was so impressed with Carrie in the first scene in her super cute part of skirt, this like down low on her stomach of the outfit we see the first I think this is the first time we're seeing the fanny pack. And it's very present, very present in this episode and
looks fantastic. I understand the whole trend, but she's very I think she plays it very cool in that first scene with with them, Like I would have been much more like what the like right away?
You know. I kind of feel like she does a little bit in that very sort of Carrie presentational way. She's like, so at night with the guys, huh and oh yeah, the guys blew me off, and she's and she's like, oh so Steve, oh and uh where is Steve?
I know, I know, But the fact that she even right she she has like some sense of humor about it.
She's holding on she's holding her anger, yeah, because I think she recognizes he's leaking revenge. He can't stop himself.
It's super passive aggressive.
Pushing buttons to see what she'll take.
It's messed up. It's messed up, but it's understandable. It's very understandable. But it would be so much better if they could just talk about it.
Yeah, but whatever, Maybe you're a fifty they would have.
I know, well, probably they would have, because we did. We did talk a lot more and just like that. But I don't think people necessarily always liked it. But that's okay.
I did, and I was mortified that it didn't get picked up. I was so confused. My husband and I both were like, who made that decision? That doesn't make any sad.
Well, I don't think it makes any sense either. All I'm gonna say but thank you for caring, thank you for carrying. I appreciate that so much.
I still have hope. We'll see, we'll see.
I don't think we're done. I don't think we're.
You can't be done, you can't get done. I'm on a show that's been canceled. I was fired and then brought back.
I mean, yeah, can we talk about that for a minute. Oh, because wow, why what on earth happened when I got fired? Yeah?
It was I think it was season six or seven or something, okay, and we did a put pilot. This is if you if listeners don't know, this is a show called Criminalizing was on CBS for fifteen minutes.
A bunch of profilers show.
Fbis it's big internationally show, but we're we're the show is owned by so many companies that no one will put any money into it because they don't all get all the money back.
It's fine. It's why we're still alive. It's why we're still shooting in LA. We have our crew, everyone sat guy. We're just like an under the radar sci show that's that does really well all over the world. So in season six or seven, we did a what's I guess it's called a put pilot, I'm not sure or an embedded pilot.
Okay.
So it took this group of FBI profilers that's always on every Wednesday at nine o'clock on CBS, and they were building a spin off pilot inside of an episode of our show Wow with Oh now I don't know, now, I don't know everyone's name, Okay. Forrest Whitaker was like the big guy. It was say go on, yeah, ok and so people you know, but we shot in San Francisco.
We had never left LA. We shoot all over LA and Long Beach and Fraser Park and Land Cat you know whatever, but we'd never gone to another part of the state. Right, So this pilot inside our episode was shot in San Francisco. And apparently this is what I heard when Les Moonvez, who is famously ousted president of CBS, when he got the pilot inside of our episode, he it was the first time he'd watched the show because the show just performed. It was never going it's never
going to be nominated for an award. It's never going to be We're never going to shoot in Paris like it's very solid exactly. So we think he saw the show for the first time in years and just said, oh, I don't like those women. Get rid of and so Aj Cook and I were fire her for and my agent went in and had a big fight with them and kept me. Aj was out. They kept me for fifteen episodes or something while I trained on the show.
My character trains the character who took AJ's part. Oh, and they looked so similar that people ran photos of this new actress saying it was Aj. For six or seven years after the replacement, and she's fine, she's great, she's lovely. She lasted a year, ok, and then they fired her and brought AJ back.
Oh my gosh.
When I finished my fifteen episodes, they said please stay and I was like you, I'm so mad. I'm so mad at you.
Don't.
I do not accept this. And I left for four years and it was great. I did a show called Grandfa. I did a show called Another Period for Comedy Central, a bunch of drunk histories. I did Community the same, amazing, like I did a lot of free went back to comedy and had a great time. But during that time, fans would come up to me and be like, why why are you? Why are you on? And after four years, because I really did hold on to that anger for too long, it was a healthy thing to hold on to.
Beau were like we were early, we knew our lines, we never got into fights, we never you.
Know, I mean, I'm real.
We were really angry and a J was asked back a year after she was gone, and she's she's just a nicer person than I am. And I'm like, I'm from a from a tight anger and fear based Massachusetts people. So I held on to be Anger for too long, and after four years, I finally thought, why am I not? I love everyone there, I just don't like less Moonvez and I never have to see him because he doesn't care about this show. So I agreed to guest star.
And then the first day I showed up to guest star, there was an altercation between one of the actors in the cast and a writer that led to the actor being let go.
What okay?
So my god, it's just a sad situation all around, and something I don't really want to I don't want to know.
I wasn't there, so I can't.
But when that was inevitable and the studio had made a decision and it was over, this person was no longer going to be on the cast, the writers and studio and network said to me, please come back, and now your character be the boss.
That's cool.
I like that, and I said okay, And then I fought. I fought and fought and fought to try to get my episodic fee close to what the men were making. Yes, because we were always paid less. So then because I was like, well I kind of have them over a barrel. They need me more than I need this show, so I'm gonna go. So I got my episode fee way up. Amaze what it was. Then when the other female cast members, their contracts were up, and so I said, this is
what I got, go get more. You stayed and I was at So then they went in and they got bigger. And then my contract was up and no, actually my contract wasn't up. They got raises. And then the next year because I told them this is what I'm getting, you should get more, we get more. I did. Then my contract was not up and and my husband said, you're going back. Why don't you ask to make what they're making. And I was like, they're never going to do that. I'm signed. And he was like, just say
you want parody, give it a shot. Yeah, And I said, hey, guys, I asked. I told my lawyer, my manager, and they were like, we can ask. They're not gonna do it. They called the next day and said they're gonna pay.
Oh oh my god.
So I'm like, amazing, Thank god, I don't have a prenup. My husband deserved it, like it was his idea.
That's adorable, that's a good husband.
Well we're so beaten down yet thinking well, of course we're not making as much as the men, why would we we do?
Oh?
And I was like, oh this is over. That's over now. I do not accept that, and I think a lot of people don't. That's radically it's.
Hard, though, it's really hard. I find it a really hard thing always. My thing is like, you know, if you love the thing right, then.
Yeah, you would do it for free, right, But you can't say that.
No, it's like really hard for me. And I feel like what happens at least back when we all started right, or when we were getting like the beginning is a success. The way to fight really hard would be not to go to work.
Oh I wouldn't. I could never ever do that, but I knew guys who did. There were actors. One day someone suddenly got bitten by a poisonous spider and a week later they got a huge race. Oh my god, I'm like, that's how this works. I would never do that. I don't want to do that to the writers, but.
Either because you know those people, right, I.
Want to screw those people up right.
The idea that would they would be sitting at work going like, well, you know, I don't know, Chris is may not come in like, I can't even say I can't even live with that thought, much less do it, you know. And so in the beginning I always thought that that's what you had to do, because that's the only way I'd ever seen at work. And I was like, well, I'm just not going to do that. I just can't.
That's not who I am, and I don't I choose my choice. I choose I choose my choice an independent operator who's going to screw other people to get up right.
Because they have to live with yourself. That is who you are. I don't want to be did not want to do that right, and that seemed to be there were no in betweens, right, there was this, and there's that, you know, and so I thought, well, you know what, I'm just going to have less money than I might have had, which is annoying, but I still can live
with myself, right. And so it's so great that you were able to find another way to do that, and also that obviously you were a team player and doing an excellent job in the first place and wrongly fired and then god it came back around for you me too.
And I'm extremely thankful for that.
I want to talk about the hair because I really, really I am jealous. Okay, how did it happen? I'm super into it.
I was afforded every opportunity the last year, when we knew Criminal Minds was ending at CBS and we were going to shoot season fifteen and be done, I asked our showrunner, Erica Messer, may I wear a wig for this last year. So that's a whole. And my hair looked like a wig anyway. It was like black bangs, black long hair. I was dying my roots on, you know, every other weekend because I can't sit in a salon chair. Oh it's hard if I don't have to do it
in the morning. Sure, I'm learning my lines, I'm getting a blowout.
I love it.
But I wasn't going to be doing and I started going gray when I was twenty eight. Oh, I didn't even know what was under there.
It's so beautiful.
I love it now, but man, no, the in between. She let me wear a wig, but I had to cut it down to a crew cut, and that worked. When I was eighteen. I had a crew cut. When I was eighteen, I had died permanent for so long that I couldn't strip go black and brown out. So it went down to this. Now we finished Criminal Minds season fifteen, I am just wearing hats all the time because I look like at its longest, I look like
George Washington, it's springing, it's short. I am unattractive. I am not rocking this hairstyle, and I feel awful, so I'm not sexy. My husband's doing everything in his power. He's like, baby, you look great. Let me touch that fuzz on the back. You're like, oh, that's so. It feels so cool, it's beautiful. He's the best. Oh again, yeah, so but then pandemic. So now I have two years wow to grow it out. And I love it long, like your length. I prefer I want this length.
It's so gorgeous.
But when it got to the bob, I was like, okay, I'm coming out of the funk. At least it's like I can't put it in a ponytail. But it took so long. Wow, and I would. And when when women and women do compliment me a lot, like they they love it, and they'll they're they're dyeing their hair. I can tell some of them a little bit of gray at the roots. They're like I want to do it, and I say, be prepared to cut all of your hair off because you're not going to get that die
out and you're not gonna like it. You're gonna feel like crap for year or two. And I had the pandemic. I had a year of wig and two years of pandemic. So I got it. When we came out of the pandemic, I was like, I'm a goddess.
Thank God, But I know you had such foresight, Like this was really really smart of you. I mean, it's impressive.
I think it's all luck. I think it's all luck. And the funny thing was the last year of Criminal Minds, I was like, Okay, I'm gonna grow my hair out gray and then I'm going to do like all kinds of different parts with gray hair. And then pandemic hits nothing and the whole I was like, I'm going to be on like a really cutting edge streaming show with
my gray hair. And then when Paramount Plus picked us up during the pandemic, then you were I went in and said, I can wear the wig, I have the hair, I have real hair wig, or we can do the gray. It's up to you. I don't care. I'm in the hair chair for eight minutes my real hair. I get a beautiful blowout, and they went to Paramount Plus with like photos. First I went to the DP and I said, is this going to be difficult to light? He was like, I love it, amazing. The showrunner was like I love
it amazing. He says, I love it. U PM great. So then I then they went to this. They said we have to run it by the studio and I still was like, I can wig or not fine, and the studio said we love the gray, which was a shock. I did not think that was going to happen. Good for them, Yeah, it was very surprise.
Also super smart of how you went about it, because I think what happens as an actor or actress, especially if you have it I am doing this, that's when things go wrong.
Oh no, yeah, you're yeah, Yeah, we're yeah. And I got But I mean I did understand that I had presented as this brunette for the whole time. You know, I wasn't really doing If I did, I would do comedies and wigs. But but when I went gray and it was shorter, the only show that cast me was Mom ha ha. That Alison Janny Anna Faris. I was cast with very short gray hair, and they said, we
don't need to put a wig on you. Oh. When I did a bunch of episodes of How I Met your Father, they wigged me, and so I was always like, I don't care, I'll wig not wig. Things are wigs are done so well now in the hands of a professional that you could beat, you can be anything.
That's a really good point. I never even think of this. I just go to that salon all the damn time. I hope you've enjoyed this chat with Paget Brewster. She's really really fun and we're going to have part two later this week, so please join us on Are You a Charlotte