Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte. You guys, you guys.
We have a very.
Exciting, a very very exciting guest. Simon Curtis is here with us. He is an uber fan. He is a super sweetheart. We met on social media of some kind. But it was a long time ago.
I think like twelve years ago.
Right, like a long time and he is so great, you guys, and I'm so excited to have him, And we have a lot of levels of Charlotte that we're going to explore.
A lifetime of Charlotte. A lifetime of Charlotte from age eleven.
Oh my gosh, amazing, amazing. Do you remember, like how did we connect? Because I don't even remember back that remark.
I've literally been a fan of the show since I was eleven years old.
Wow.
I used to sneak watch it while my parents were watching it. It was like the perfect way to watch the show. My parents would be in the living room watching it, and then I would go sneak watch it in the back room at the same time, and we're getting up to go see what I was doing. So amazing someday I would watch.
Oh, I love it. You were watching it in real time when I was on the first time on HBO. Yeah, well that's fantastic at the ripe age of eleven, Oh my gosh, and Di, how did that that?
Well? I think that was one of the first conversations that we ever had. And I feel like I'm going to cry six times today, but this is I might as well just go ahead and jump into it. I think one of the first conversations that we ever had was telling you how much of a life raft the show was for me. I was an eleven, twelve year old gay boy in Oklahoma and in the show premiered was it ninety seven or ninety eight?
Ninety eight?
So ninety eight, so I was twelve, wow in Oklahoma and that was just like an at age twelve that was coming into my sexuality, going into puberty, not knowing what is this and kind of being so isolated and sex and the city was the first thing I ever saw that showed gay people that it wasn't a tragedy. It wasn't you know, we were coming out of AIDS at that time, and it was showing gay people just
living life like Stanford. I think is second episode with you know, the modeled Boney and like that was just so like it was so much wonder for me. It was like, oh my god, this look at this world, look at these people, and this is so different and he's accepted and look at all this love he's surrounded by and just in general, so it was it was such a life raft. It meant so much to me as a kid, even though you know, you might say the show might not be appropriate for a twelve year old,
but it was a life raft. It saved me in so many ways. It is such a crucial point in my life.
That is so great. That is so great to hear. I mean intellectually we know that to be true in a way right now, maybe not all twelve year olds or whatever, but just that we were We forget i think now in twenty twenty six, how different television was back then. And then it was a culture culture in general. Sorry, absolutely, And for me, I was really you know, exposed when I was ten and I started acting in the community
theater in South Carolina. That is really where all the gay people went, right because you didn't have a lot of freedom and options, you know, in regular life in that time. So I was around gay people like my whole life, and I think gay people are fantastic. But second of all, you know, it was just so normal, like if you're a theater kid, that is your world, right, And.
I was too, you know, from the time I was ten. That's what I was doing. That's great, and you know, but it was still at a time when I would hear the commentary from my parents who were driving me to and from rehearsal about people in the cast, and it was just like one of those outside was still yeah, definitely. And I was raised Catholic, you know, so it's there's there's you know, an addition to yeah, Oklahoma, there's Catholicism. There's all of these things.
Yeah.
Yeah, And and truly Sex and the City was the first sort of like guiding light of Wow, there's there's life.
Yeah, so much like yeah, truly so much. Like that's so nice. That's so nice. I'm so glad that you reached out on whatever was it Twitter?
I think it was Twitter, right, I think it was like Twitter, like twenty sixteen. Wow, I think it was twenty sixteen when we were dming in no way. Yeah, And I just wrote you that whole thing, and I was like, I just have to tell you this.
I'm so glad the best kind of social media, don't you think?
Absolutely? And you've been a part of that sent ever since we've I feel like we've been pempals we have ever since that moment.
True so true, well, because you're just very real and you're very positive, and you're super sweet, and you know, you're very vulnerable in a way, like you know when like I'm not getting go to details, but like things have happened to you and you posted about them.
I was like, silent, that actually is how you became my Charlot's godmother. And I have to say I was waiting until we were recording to share this because I don't even know if you are fully still aware of the full scope of how serendipitous it was. So in twenty twenty one, my partner and I we had been spending time in Oklahoma pretty much full time when the pandemic hit, and like with family, it was just a
nice place to be at the time. And he was modeling in Mexico City and it was September twenty twenty one and he was gone for like two months, and I was there with our sixteen year old Chihuahua, Lexi, and she passed in her sleep in the bed with me, and you were one of the first people to reach out immediately, and you kept checking in on me, and it was so kind and so sweet, and it was It was right about that time I met a chihuahua breeder nearby who let me come to her house for
puppy therapy. And before Lexi had even passed, my partner Jore he started having dreams about a white chihuahua.
Wow.
And the first one that I met was the runt of the litter, this little white Chiuhaha named Henry and from Mexico City. He was like, that's my dog. That's like, we have to have him. And then there was this other little puppy named Charlotte, and come to find out, she was born the night that Lexi passed, and she had just all these behavioral isms that were just her and I was like, oh my god, this is Lexi,
Like she reincarnated instantly. Wow. And so when he got back from Mexico City, we went to go meet both of the dogs, and we parked in front of the house afterwards, and I just I said in the car, I was like, what are we going to do? We can't get too puppies. And at that exact moment, my phone vibrated and it was you sending me a message and you said, hi, honey, I know it's been a minute, because it was like two and a half weeks or
like almost a month after the fact. I just wanted to check in on you and see how you were holding up. And in the car, I just started crying and I was like, well, Charlotte just texted me. We're getting Charlotte, We're getting two puppies, and.
Oh my god.
But it was literally the words came out of my mouth. We can't get two puppies. Just checking on you, seeing how you're doing, and I, yeah, so you've been her, You've been her godmother ever since.
So she doing.
Oh she's so good and she's so good. And the other story I was telling you before we started at Airwan, because I'm always at Sportsman's Lodge in Studio City. The gym is there, and it's just it's like the fun place in Studio City now.
Which is really interesting because it wasn't always the case. It used to be scary.
I don't think i'd ever walked through there hill.
They turned and now they've done like this magical brand.
Before, wasn't it like the haunted place of like a studio. Executives like you.
Were like, what has happened in these four walls?
Dark devious deeds? But now it's really cool. And Charlotte is kind of like a mascot there. I take her there, and she's so social and everybody loves her, and so when I bring her into Airwine, everybody knows who she is and it's just like the cutest thing that is. And one of the employees there, she's adorable girl named Charlotte, and she lives in the neighborhood where we walk all
of our dogs, and so we've bonded. And she told me once that her parents named her after you, after Charlotte, And so one night I came in and this was last year, at some point I came in just to grab something in my pajamas, holding Charlotte. Charlotte it was checking me out, and she was like, oh my god, you just missed Charlotteton Davis. It was just here and I was like is she? And I ran out to
the parking lot holding Charlotte. I was like, where missed I texted you immediately, but I don't think you saw it, like the next day or something, because it was the middle of the night. But I was like, this is there are so many layers of Charlotte happening right now, like goddaughter.
Really sad though that I missed you in your pajamas with Charlotte at Air One, you are living in La life. It is awesome, okay, with.
The Air one cashier who's like this seventeen year old girl who's named after you.
Say true, thank you to the parents of Charlotte who works at Airwine Studio City. That's lovely. And I love any dog named Charlotte, just so everyone knows. It's always like makes my heart saying absolutely to meet the little puppies.
You have so many god babies in this world. I any time I meet a dog named Charlotte, it's always because of you. Any dog named Charlotte.
I don't even know if I should really take credit for that, right, I think Charlotte's just a good name. But I do feel very excited whatever I mean.
You you know, because I talk about it with people and they always clarify, and there's always a post conversation.
Okay, always, I love that. I love that you're out there representing Simon. I really appreciate it. And I also mentioned because just just because you know, let's be through here. You have a very beautiful voice.
Oh thank you.
Now I knew that you had this whole career in music, but like when I'm just sitting here listening to your voice, it's so incredibly beautiful.
Thank you so much. Thank you.
Just tell us a little bit about your music.
Yeah, I start. So, I started on Nickelodeon in like two thousand and nine. I was in a musical called Spectacular Emojian Musical, ok. And that was like post high school musical and all of that. And I so I was. I started as an actor when I moved to LA and then I had some interesting experiences that were a little traumatic at the time looking back, and I pivoted and was like, you know what, I'm so tired of hearing no, I'm so tired of people telling me that
I have to not be gay all of these things. Yes, and I'm going to release music. And so I released my first album, Ape at Heart in twenty ten, and it went super viral. And I've had this incredible fan base ever since with my music.
Amazing.
Yeah, so it's been it's been making music ever since.
You so, and you have some crazy number of streams.
Yes, so I think the grand lifetime total of my music that's up on all the streamers right now is at like one point seventy five billion streams cumulatively.
I mean, yeah, that's so crazy. Also, feel like there's just like music is so interesting, right because people think it's just pop music, but it isn't like you can really have this blooming career kind of somewhat independently.
Oh, completely, right, were completely and truth be told, I was one of the very first people to just start releasing independent pop music in twenty ten. That was a really revolutionary thing. It was really just like rappers releasing mixtapes, right, and so I was one of the first people who put out an electronic pop album in that same way. Wow, so's it's so neat. Yeah, it's meat know how to do that?
Like what made you think of that?
When I first moved out to LA one of my best friends was an aspiring producer and we just were always recording and making music together. And that was I after spectacular and after I was having all of these sort of actor traumas, I just decided to do it. I was like, let's make an album. I'm buckling down and I'm doing it.
Amazing.
Yea.
That is so. I like to hear the stories where people are able to kind of keep their autonomy create from a place of you know, like you're grounded, you're making what you want to make, and then you're putting it out there. It's so amazing. Yeah, that's something you can do in this day and age. But I don't think that people are always aware that that's something you can do, and that.
I wasn't aware of that ether It was always just a decision even you know, I'm an author as well, and when I decided to write my first book, I just did it. And I wrote on Twitter who here knows anything about ya publishing? And one of my turbo fans at the time had this avatar of a little cupcake and he was like, hey, send me a DM for whatever reason. I was like sure, and I did, and he was like, I'm an editor at Simon and Schuster and he'd been a fan of my music since
I started putting it out. Wow, And he was like I want to hear more about the book you're writing, and he wound up buying my book and Simon and Schuster incredible, and so that was published in twenty sixteen, and then I had my first graphic novel published last year. Wow. So it's everything that I've done has always just kind of been like, well, I'll do this. Wow.
Yeah, Well I think number one, you're incredibly talented, but number two super smart that you're that you're thinking proactively for yourself. And I do feel like that's possible in this day and age. I just don't think that people necessarily maybe they don't have you're just innate confidence, right, I'm just going to do this or whatever. But also that's why I like to tell the stories like this, because I feel like, like, do you know Benito Skinner?
Oh? Yeah, yeah, you know him before? Yes, he's so super, super super sweet and that show incredible, Right. I was able to have such a beautiful moment with him last
summer at the Hollywood Cemetery. He's good friends with my friend Janet and we went to see the anniversary showing of Clueless, and so she's on one of the Bravo shows, The Valley and so we were in with like the talent section, and he was with us, and I happened to go to the bathroom at the same time with him, and I just had this conversation where I was saying the same thing, like, I'm so inspired. It's so great seeing you. He made this, Yeah, brought it to life,
you're shepherding. It's such an inspiration, especially as a fellow gay person, like so gay.
Person and super creative, so nice and so hard working and so creatively you know, engaged, right, But he started making his you know, spoofy videos.
One hundred percent on Instagram, TikTok or whatever, I guess, and you never know where it's going to lead, never and you just have to put yourself out there and do it.
You have to do it.
And honestly, I feel like that's such an extension of my teenage years and even tying back to what the show did for me because when I moved to La I was eighteen. Wow, I saved up. I was working at PF. Chang's in Tulsa, which I also have a good story because I was working at PF. Chang's the night of the series finale and I've heard you talk about what the impact of the show was for the outside world because it was such obviously such an insular
experience for you being in the middle of it. Yeah, And I mean I can remember before the show premiered, front page in the newspaper, like the headline let's talk about sex and this like in the newspaper in Oklahoma, before the show ever premiered. How much of a cultural phenomenon it was.
Wow.
And by the time the series was wrapping up, it was like, it's so hard to describe what it was like going to work that night and every single person coming in the door in this busy restaurant in the middle of the winter, and every single person was, well, are you going to blah blah blah. I was watching the show. Do you want to know? Do you want
to know? And it was like this palpable And at one point during the shift somebody said that there was like somebody was a little tipsy, and somebody said, at this table she wound up with big and the entire place cheered, Like it was It's so hard to describe because it wasn't like the Super Bowl. It just felt bigger. It felt so culturally pervasive.
That those days where we could have a group experience, not none of us, but just in general, you know, like the grouping experience of watching something together talking about something you know in culture. And I mean it kind of happens now, like I guess stranger things, you know, but it's still kind of separated, you know, like in terms of the cultural conversation and the experience of watching it totally.
But Sex and the City started it, Oh.
I don't really started it. But you're adorable.
Oh no, I And that's another thing that I said before we started. I will defend to the death that I truly believe Sex and the City is the most significant TV show that's ever been made.
You're adorable.
I say it without hyperboles. I know, because if you look like the history of television, what TV was as a medium as an art form before Sex and the City changed forever after it, I don't know it was a truly it's like a deviating path in the timeline.
Even if that's true. But I really appreciate it. I mean, I do love us. I do love us, right Obviously I would do a podcast about it if I didn't love us. But I don't know about like it's still a little hard for me to fully be objective.
I say, like I take for example, Euphoria, something that's airing right now. Yeah, it's Hans zimmer Is doing the score for every episode. Kodak invented a new type of film for the season to be shot on. You aren't getting these experiences in the movie theater these days, oh wowow. And this show on HBO is getting this, Like Sam Levinson is just getting to make the movie of his
dreams every week. Yeah, that is a direct result. But that's but that's even just somebody, even if whether or not you like it like somebody is able, or whether or not you think it's either.
I understand what you're sayingbody another level.
The creative license to and if you thought about if you think about TV pre nineteen ninety eight, that imagin you're right, You're right, I do.
I would put us in Sopranos. I think because Sopranos, like because of what they were able to do creatively. I think because we both happened at the same time, which was of course, you know the brilliance of the people working on HBO at the time. Yeah, Carolyn and Chris, it was really just those two which is also really funny. Like people think it was like a whole team of people. Not not really. It was a really small group.
But to that end, I listened to the episode of this podcast where you were talking with the executive HBO, and I loved hearing you say it because I've always believed it, but you you laid out the timeline, and Sex and the City was first. It's true, and because of the success of Sex and the City, the Sopranos got this creative license to just be what it was.
I mean, I think that they went together, and I think that they they I mean, we were I think the thing that's interesting about it is, at the time, which I think I said before, we were very much like the Girly Show, Right, we were like a little bit lesser than I don't know, it felt like that's that's how it felt at the time.
Right. Oh, it pisses me off? Who I got steamed? Ooh I got riled up by you.
You're so cute?
No, I really do.
I mean, but in a lot of ways it made sense because I think at the beginning of us, no one ever thought we'd win an Emmy. A comedy on cable had never won an Emmy, right, it wasn't you know whatever. And Sopranos was also really creating first in so many ways for HBO. So we had we were like tandem, right, comedy, half hour you know, hour long drama obviously, and they got so many kudos.
Of course they did, because it's the Mafia.
Gross show, right, but they were also really great. Oh completely, yeah, completely, And that's not that's not to describe it them. I just feel like I've spent twenty years like defending, like going to that and be like, no, Sex.
And the City was first. True thing about Sex and the City is that it was a level of honesty that didn't exist on television.
That's true, all right. So for episode for twelve to say yes, my Hondai hot take is going to be I just can't stop thinking about the scene where Aiden finally proposes to Carrie in the street is so beautiful,
beautiful New York night, summer night. The air is kind of misty, and Carrie's got her tiny little running of shorts on, and of course she doesn't even suspect at this point that he's going to propose, even though she's been expecting it, and we don't know the audience doesn't know that he's changed the ring out, so I think
it's just so good the way he does it. And he pretends that he's getting a doggy boop bag, which is, you know, very aiden, and then he has this beautiful ring and she's taken off guard and plays it so beautifully and then ends up saying yes, even though we know the whole episode long, she's been having all of
this anxiety about it and hasn't been sure. So I think I would say I would say that that's my hot take because it's such a beautiful moment and it's filmed so beautifully and acted so beautifully that I'm going to say that that is my Hyundai hot take of the episode, celebrating iconic moments, bold moves, and unforgettable style,
just like Hyundai. One of the things that I am aware of when I am rewatching, I hadn't really realized how really brave we were in our storytelling, not just with the writing and the honesty, but like the visuals, Like everything was so elevated and really beautiful, and you don't even though now we have eight million shows, right,
you don't really see that now. But even with the same thing, and I'm not up to date on Euphoria, but like that is like a little movie every week, right, and that's I think, like the the joy of it. And maybe you don't love it necessarily. I don't know. I'm not up on it. It's a lot.
I love it, you love it. I love that.
My issue is that once I get the kids to bed, I have like one hour, right, and I am scared to watch something so intense because then I can't sleep. It's a little intense for me.
I will say, because you're Pisce's right, I am also all of my Piss's friends are obsessed with it. Really, it hits do you. It's like, did you enjoy the very first kill Bill? Yeah?
Oh I love kill Bill?
That season three of Euphoria. Oh, it really is so imaginative. Okay, it's a constant. Everything feels like a dream and a poem.
But it's like possibly also a nightmare.
Oh, I mean in terms of a storytelling, I mean it's it's a scary part. You get a fantasy sequence that it's like I always think about in Kill Bill Volume one, one of the scenes is fully anime and you're not taken out of the movie true, and it's it's Lucy Lu's character's backstory, but it's just an anime forgot about. And then one sequence, as you're watching it goes completely black and white. You don't notice it until
it's and it's things like that. So all of my like all of my Pissy's friends who are obsessed with like Pan's Labyrinth or you know, things like that, it's just that's not me. It might be a little too scary. But the level of imagination is what I'm saying.
Which is just impressive.
It's very impressive bridled imagination.
And that's what's really amazing about HBO. And you know, I really hope that they're able to to keep their own autonomy in the current insanity of our business, you know, because they do allow people to take those risks one percent.
And that's where Sex and the City stands alone. Also, Sarah Jessica doing Sex in the City. That's another reason the show was so significant. There'd never been a movie star that had just all of a sudden done TV like that. That that's truly true. It was because I, Sarah Jessica was such like I grew up with the vhs of Flight to the Navigator as one of my very first repeat movies, like it was Brave, Little Toaster,
Little Mermaid, and Fly to the Navigator. I had all of her dialogue from Flight to the Navigator burned into my brain from.
The time this is like out of my realm of knowledge. Oh my god, yeah, it's someone else brought this up to me and I was like, I don't even know what you're talking.
It's a beautiful movie, wow, and she's an icon in it. It's missed. But then she went from that to you know, as a child, like I'm talking, I was watching that as a two year old on repeat, crazy, and then from there it was hocus Pocus, which again on repeat, and then First Wives Club. I was like this little fifth grade gay boy who couldn't stop watching First Wives Club.
And so it was just like this string. And then that led right into seeing the newspaper of Sarah Jessica Parker, let's talk about sex in the newspaper, and being like, she's on a show. So it was just this like seamless thing for me to excuriing. I like that.
I like that she would like that too, that would be nice for her to hear. I love it.
Honestly when that's that's one of the things I think I might have dm you at some point in my many diary entries I've sent you over the years, just like even even that, you know, because I've always told you that the show was such a guiding light for me in my life, and even her being carried in it, that was, you know, she was somebody as an actor who's been with me since I was two years old.
That's amazing.
This is you know, there's a level of of love and kinship that you feel not only for the characters but for you as actors, and how significant these roles have been in so many people's lives, especially my life. Like it's it's it's really really remarkable. It's so nice.
It's so nice to feel that, and it's I think the joy, the joy of it. Was just the other day, Lisa Kudro, who's been you know, out i know, right talking about the comeback and it's over now, which I'm so sad and it's so good, and she was talking about she's been talking about so many fascinating things out there. Yeah, she's super fascinating person. And she was talking about how she had always thought that fame would feel like a
warm hug, but that it didn't. It felt and I can't remember the word she used, but something like a like an onslaught, like a you know, like an attack or whatever. Which sometimes it can obviously, I think, and feel like both right, but sometimes and it kind of comes and goes in waves in terms of the intensity
of it, which I think is also important. Someone said that to me when I was really young, like, oh, it won't always be you know, if you're having a rough day with it or whatever, It's not always going
to be that, which is important to remember. But the warm hug part, I think is like when you can get a little distance from it and then you can kind of not feel so inundated, you know, with whatever you know you're going through or whatever, and you can just have the connection with people and the connection that people have with the work and with characters and with what you all made, which is so like, isn't that why we do what we do?
And I told you this before and just like that ever, even Premiered, I was so amazed by what a gift that was for actors to be able to revisit characters in these sort of and that's the exact same thing that Lisa must be experiencing right now with the Comeback, which is interesting because they're both Michael Patrick n projects and it's these very unique experiences for actors where you've not only been able to craft these characters with so much love and soul, but you've been able to shepherd
them across decades. I agree, and I don't think there are and I said this to you when and just like that premiered, I don't think there are actors who've ever gotten to experience that. No, I know it's ever gotten to agree that what an achievement that is.
I agree, I agree, it is an achievement, and we are really really happy that we got to do it. Don't get me started on that.
Well. Yeah, I mean, you know, I much like the Comeback. When I first watched it, I never ever thought that it would come back, and then here we are totally. It's it's I am I'm always I'm always hold holding out faith for my girls because.
Sweet, you know, we did have Michael Patrick here and he said, I said to him, what are you going to do? This was last week, I want to say, and he said, you know now that the comeback is done and we're done. I'm all out of IP. I got to create some fresh IP. And I was like, I tried to really like hold myself together when he.
Said that I can, can I can? I speak freely of course. Okay, So my dream, my dream of dreams. Yeah, yeah, I always want my girls back. I need I need them like I will follow them into the sunset. I always need them. But my dream of Dreams is the original show format thirty minutes, like the same with with Carrie voiceover narrating.
Yeah, and you don't mean the original format where we talked to the camera.
I mean like how far back? No no, no, no, I'm talking when the when the series was like firing on all cylinders. Yes, there is, and you can see it like people doing parodies. People will write tweets in the format of a page of s and it's it's like Golden Girls. When Golden Girls hit the Stride, there was a structure to the show that these beats and it was like, oh, it just it's like hitting a tuning fork and that sound just feels good in your soul.
That's what the episodes of Sex and the City are like. The cadence the pacing, how much you get. It all happens lightning fast in those episodes. But by the time you finish the season, you've had these character arcs that just especially by the time you get to season four.
Which I'm so excited to be talking about it.
By the time you get to season four, you're seeing these women's lives change even though you've been watching these thirty minute episodes, and that was like, that is my dream. I want point I want twenty thirty minute episodes. I want Carrie's voiceover back. I want the music that was also such a something that you know as a musician.
I love the music in the first series, these jazz interstitials, these and then by the time and also season four is when you start getting the really good needle drops. I think the episode after the one that we're reviewing today is when the Shade song comes on. And that's all makes me cry because of the show, and it's.
The end of the.
Season iHeart and why that is my favorite episode of Sex and the City that Exists and Moon River end capping that episode is like it makes me sob my eyes out, and there's just you know, the I don't know, there's something about the music and the pace is how it all came together.
I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. I don't think that we can recreate that. I totally know why you would want us to recreate that, but I don't think it can be done. And I think that, Michael, when we did and just like that and the end, then we'll go, we're going to talk about the episode. Sorry,
I'm telling my self as much as you. When we went to do it just like that, he felt really strongly that we had to be extremely clear that we were not going to be recreating the show because we would just fail because we're because we're in our fifties now, and we can't be the same show and it can't be the same rhythm and it can't be all of those things. And I get what he was saying, because it would be it would be strange to have us in this whole, whole, very different decade, right trying to
do that. I think there's probably a happy medium, right, but he just felt very strongly from his point of view, that it had to we had to be clear that we are being very different. Well.
I think is so interesting is that he is saying that but also making the comeback, which good point is that even though the tone the good point the place in life, the tone of season three of the comeback is completely different. That's your cadence is the same when you sit down to experience, Yes, experientially the same thing, but the tone.
Is the tone is different. Right. I mean I watch this, Oh I watched it, Yes, but I didn't watch the I haven't watched the first one in a long time.
Oh, okay, I mean that's you know that is it's it's kind of like akin to old Ricky Gervais situational single cam like the Original Office. It's like humiliation comedy. It's deeply uncomfortable to watch.
That's how I felt the first time. And it was also right at the end of our show, right, And it was about a forty something year old actress who was who was who was over quote over trying to make a comeback, yeah, and being humiliated all the time. And I was basically just laying on my couch crying because the show was over.
So I was like, we can't do that.
And I felt so guilty because I couldn't watch it. I love him so much. I wanted to support. I was like, it's like daggers in my heart.
I can't but now. And to what I was saying, even though it's the same format, we're experiencing Valerie Cherish in a totally different way.
Is true.
In this season. We're seeing even though similar things might be happening to her, we're seeing that she has so much wisdom, and she's so much respect, so much heart, and so much and people are giving her her flowers the entire season. Yes, and it feels very natural because of the time progression, and they didn't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. They didn't have to completely reinvent the show to do that.
I mean, you're giving me good ideas. That's really really true. That's really really true. I hadn't thought about that. You know what I think is also interesting, And I'll have to think about this so more because you bring up good points. Lisa and Michael wrote the whole this season together, right, and they wrote in the beginning together. So I think that because you have another voice with you, maybe he doesn't have as much pressure.
I mean, that's a big thing.
Really carries the pressure, the creative pressure, totally like kind of alone even though we have these incredible writers, you know, it takes.
It so and I cannot imagine what that must be like with Sex and the City because, as I said, it is the most significant TV show in the history of television. So that's a lot of pressure weighing on that. But pressure makes diamonds, pressure mixed dimonds.
That's so true. All right, here, let's talk about this episode because it's a good episode. Oh my god, it's called just Say Yes. And honestly, this is I've said
this before. I mean, I don't remember a lot of season four because I do believe in my mind that I had season three and season four were together because Charlotte's arc is still the same, same, right like, because the Trey marriage overlaps in a way that was never supposed to happen, right yeah, And I'm going through all the things like I didn't separate them in my mind, I think, which is why I think they were all just these three to me.
And also, I have to say this before we get into the episode itself, how did you feel going into I mean, I guess season three and four because to me, having watched every episode at least seventy times, like actually how did you feel as an actor just getting these scripts?
Because this is very excited, very excited, very excited. I mean that's always how I mean, this is how I felt. We would get the script in a Manila envelow the seat back before they would do the watermarking and all that stuff, right, and you would just go your trailer and rip it over and try to read it before they called you back to the set, you know, because
you're just dying to know what's going to happen. Well, yeah, no, we would have known from Michael the general arc, right, and so you would he would always give us the plan and run it by us and get our thoughts and whatever, but you never knew how that was going to manifest itself into script, right, And because each script is assigned to a different writer, so this this particular script, just say yes, it's Cindy Schubag.
I have to interject, I have another layer of vel in my life. I'm from Tulsa, Oklahoma, where Cindy is from. Yes, and so growing up watching it, my best childhood friend, Heather, her older sister, was lifelong best friends with Cindy's sister and they're both Jewish. The Jewish community and Tulsa is very tight knit, and so growing up watching Sex and the City, Heather's dad, Larry was just always always bragging about her and oh, have you watched Sex in the City.
You know, Cindy Shupac is writing it. And so it was just like when I saw that, when I saw that she wrote this episode of I was like.
And it's such a good one. And she really is very Charlotte, very very Charlottie. All the all the writers in the room considered her to be like a good Charlotte voice, right, because she's very you know she she came on the show and she said she was a Charlotte. I'm pretty sure she had a lot of even though at this point in their lives, the writers didn't have a lot of this experience that Charlotte's having yet. Yeah, it was like they hadn't found their person, try to
get pregnant, all that stuff. But she really wanted all those things in the same way that Charlotte does.
Right.
And the thing that's interesting in this particular one, I would say for myself when I rewatched it, so much happens with Charlotte. Like I had thought that these different scenes I remember the scenes, but I thought they were in different episodes. I didn't realize they were all jam packed into Yes, and let me just ask you, because
this is on the top of my mind. Yes, do you remember when I don't know if we've explained this or not, right, Like, do you remember when he tells me that he doesn't really want to have a baby anymore and he's tired and I walk into the other room and that mural is there? Do you know what that is?
I don't.
Isn't it kind of scary?
I mean, it's terrifying. It's like I feel like there's a certain element of like Tim Burton macrob to all of that, Like what's that the Manhattan? Who's it? Like that mural? Charlotte's like, oh you need a Manhattan? Who's it? And it's like this weird like what the heck crawd out of Tim Burton?
And I remember at the time I was I think I felt the same way, but also like I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I didn't know who had painted it, Like this is the situation you're in on a set. It's for the baby, it's the baby's room.
Yeah, that's Oh no, I knew it was for the baby's but it's still like, you know, I don't.
I didn't get to the bottom of it.
I don't know why, but like when I'm.
Recing and I'm like, wow, it's scarier than even I realized at the time, and it's also so big and it doesn't go with their apartment at all. What that happened. And then there's like a chest that's also dark green, and later on I think I have to deal with that. I remember that being like looming large or whatever, scary kind of scary, but also like the way that I like walk in there and like look at it.
It's all very that's something too. I was so excited that I got asked to review this episode because I feel like it's right in the middle. There's a string of episodes that are Charlotte's like greatest hits. The episode before ends with We're having a baby and your delivery on that it makes me cry every time I've seen
the show eight thousand times. It makes me cry every time, and it's it's and then you go from that to this episode I'm getting some juice and I don't know, and then the next episode, Like, it's just it's a lot. All these all these scripts are Charlotte's it's the Charlotte's greatest hits.
I know, it's definitely a lot. And I don't even know at the time if I realized that, you don't even saying, like if I really was, like, maybe that's also why maybe maybe don't remember I remember stuff about filming it, right, But like the fact that it's all in one and I mean in this particular episode and then we'll be more linear or whatever. But we're pisy, so let's not. I had Ausive man Veon he's also
a pissy. Oh we ended up seeing George Harrison, who's also a talking about whether time existed or not.
I mean, it's a spear right, right, it's right, everything everywhere, all at once, so we're.
There, let's only have guests.
But it's true, but also like you can't you can only take certain episodes, You can only take any of these episodes without the context of the entire season and the series. So I feel like you kind of have to zoom in, like you have to have the macro
to discuss the micro. That's what I love about this season is I mean Honestly, It's one of the things that I love so much about the show in general, is because you started thinking you're getting the sitcom right, and by the time the entire series wraps, you have the most beautiful, satisfying character arcs that have ever been put to film, and I mean all four characters. You have Charlotte at the very final episode this is our baby God, like you have Miranda, Steve your mother can
come live with us, I forgot. And then you have Samantha, you were the greatest man I've ever known. And then you have Carrie with her phone and her voiceover saying the greatest relationship you can ever have in your life is the relationship that you get with yourself. And if you find someone else who loves you along the way,
well then that's just fabulous, amazing. They are the four it's all intertwined, and they are the greatest arcs that you've ever gotten, and each season is also its own arc. And I feel like, having seen the show so many times, Charlotte was the very first one of the four characters that started really getting like the meat and bones character arc starting in season three. Wow, and especially just seeing seeing the scripts that you were working with. It was
because everybody. Everybody got that. Every single one of these characters went into some real definitely, but Charlotte was the first one. Charlotte was with interesting, her marriage dissolving and then the fertility journey. Yeah, Charlotte was the first one who was like, especially as an actor, they were throwing you into some real shit.
They were, they were. I mean I look back on it, and I mean I do think I was very excited. I think it was kind of scared. And then like when I watch it, I'm like, oh my god, so much is happening. So much is happening. And if I were to do it now, obviously thirty years later or twenty five years later, whatever it is, you know, I would have more to call upon as an actor. But I feel like the thing that's interesting watching it because
Charlotte is one of my best friends. Described Charlotte as like my younger sister, you know, because she's different but similar, right, and she's kind of more you know, innocent in some ways and whatnot that I am. I don't know if that's the right word, but you know, she needs her She hasn't been through all this yet, you know what I'm saying so, like sometimes when I watch a scene like sometimes I'll watch a scene like I love the scene when Cynthia when I do go. You know, Cynthia
decided to keep the baby. I love that scene. I'm not totally sure about my performance on the street though. That was last episode too. You know, when Cynthia follows me, when Miranda follows me, are you.
Sure fifteen percent? Fifteen percent chance I've ever Are you kidding?
Oh my god, No, you feel that, Simon at all times, you guys.
I will be because no, you feel that in your got There's okay, there's panic, there is shame. All of these things come out of Charlotte's eyes and face in okay seconds and this, and you get to see Cynthia like Miranda shifts because she's so pissed, and then you see her heartbreak.
Yes, and it's she's so good.
Oh no, no, no, no, no, no no no. I will not take this, La no, because it's I'm.
Telling you you need to be implanted in my brain.
No, I will because you're so sweet. Charlotte's greatest heads.
Okay, so let me ask you this. Let me ask you this about Charlotte Okay, so this this this, But as I'm watching, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, oh this, Oh my god, they're all together. And my favorite, one of my favorite scenes, which I fondly remember and did live up to my to my memories of it, is when I'm practicing my mandarin yes and I'm doing my nails and my vintage slip. Okay, I really remember the scene, and I hope this is okay that I'm going to
say this. This episode is directed by David Frankel and David Franklin. His wife had gone through in vitro, and he was one of a big, a big influence on how I did things because he had a lot of thoughts and feelings and you know, they have two beautiful children and it all worked out, but it had been hard, right, and he would talk to me a lot about it, which was helpful because I didn't have a lot of friends at that point who had gone through.
It was still a relatively new thing. It was. It was a big Yeah, it was a very big deal. Yeah.
So when you know, when I'm telling Trey like, oh, this person, that person in our building, and he's like, what did you do? Put up a memo, you know, because there was no shame right about it, which is kind of adorable. But and now I feel like a lot of that shame has gone. Thank God, all right, But I think for Charlotte too, because Charlotte wants to be perfected everything, and so it's hard, you know, and also in Vito, as much as it's really commonly discussed,
it is a hard thing to go through. Oh yes, it's not easy. It makes you feel like you're a lunatic when you're on all those hormones.
Play so well, and from the moment it opens with the shot and the butt, it's just this manic hyped and it's so subtle because somebody could have taken that to a place of ridiculousness and you did.
It was the hitch because I'm sometimes sometimes I'm not sure. First of all, I do want to say, that's not my butt. I definitely drew the line. I was like, I Am not going to stand there with a close up on my butt while you're pretending to put a needle in it. That it would be no, And I can I can so totally tell because it's not shaped right. But whatever, it's cool. It's very nice it's very nice. It's nicer than mine anyway. That made me laugh. But like when I like the the I had forgotten about
the fling, the Scottish fling. Oh my god, Like I'm not sure if I was crazy enough or whatever. I did really like how I played the scene where Franny Bunny tells me it's perfect that she does not appreciate mandarin food.
The devastation on your face.
And I also felt it all over again, like how dare she?
There's so much devastation. That's what I'm saying this, this this chunk of episodes, it's Charlotte's greatest hits, the instant devastation, the betrayal, because it's that's like such a line to cross with like that tray has crossed, but he's divulged.
That definitely, definitely.
And it's just no, no, no, that the line delivery there is it's it's it's beautiful, it's a beautiful moment. It's it's heartbreaking and infuriating, but your performance is stunning.
Good. I like that one. But then when I go in to get him out of the center of the Scottish dancing and he rips my dress, I'd remember there being so much stress about that and Patted had to make me that dress because we couldn't find a dress and it had to be a specific plaide and then he had to rip it, so we had to have multiples. So they'd had to make that for me, and I remember feeling like this is a whack dress. This dress is crazy, like it was so much blood plaid, like
so much plaid. But he had to rip it, and I remember that was really stressful. But I don't know if I do that right, Like, am I mad enough? I don't know.
Oh no, So I watched it again just this morning. It's perfect. There's no I've I live, eat and breathe these episodes and there's never there's never been a moment where like hm, that could have been adjusted.
Okay, never, Okay, I'm glad because we can't go back now. We can't go back to this is what I tell myself. But it is a lot like and I do like the scene that I love the most. I don't know why. I love that scene where I'm doing my nails. It goes and I tried to do the mandarins because mandre is very hard. Guys. I don't know if you guys, have ever tried to speak Mandarin's very hard.
I took Mandarin in high school. Oh my god, well then you're probably and so I spoke like survival Mandarin in high school. Okay, as soon as I moved to La, I lost it.
It's hard because it's hard to retain it doesn't you.
Don't conjugate verbs.
It's a whole different and the intonation is everything. You can totally change your words with the intonation. And I was trying to learn it a little bit back then, but then I ended up going to Beijing and Shanghai to do an ad thing where I had to learn it, and I had to have like a consultant teach me because it's like impossible, possible, like my three lines, I
had to have someone teach me. But I love that scene because I think I had gotten from David Frankel kind of like free Reign to have that scene even though it's it's on the paper, like I think he does say something like Kyle says we should have just your hormones or whatever, but like he just let me do every line like crazy, do.
You know what I mean? It's but what is so funny is that in that scene after the Scottish planing, it feels so grounded.
Oh yeah, yeah, it's like, then we're back.
Yeah, well, then we're.
Back because it's obvious that I am doing something that Trey is not involved in or whatever. It's like sad, it's so sad. And then when he sits down and says he's exhausted, he.
Just wants to play golf.
He wants to play golf. It's horrible. And then I'm like why, I feel like I should be more upset. But I also feel that there is kind of like a drip drip drip of it, right what I'm saying.
It's perfectly paced because it ramps up. Because also I feel like that's it. That's a dawning realization, that's a that's not only just a rug pull. That's not only a realization of Charlotte thinking what if I don't have a kid. Then that's Charlotte going back to well what if this isn't my husband?
Right?
Then that's Charlotte going in the nursery and being like, I've built a house of lies. What how can I be here again?
Definitely, and so I feel like, you, well, I'm good. Then I'm good then, okay, I feel much better. Thank you, Simon. Thank you Simon. That's good. That was the perfect description of what should be her interior monologue. So I feel really good. All right, everyone on, are you as Charlotte. We are going to take a break and we will be back with more Simon Curtis as the week continues. Thanks for joining us.