Welcome to the architect of Resilience podcast, where we explore the secrets of overcoming life's challenges and unlocking unstoppable strength through. Deep personal conversations and expert insights. I'm really excited today for another, the second in our peptide series with myself and Anthony Kastor to be dropping some knowledge. And I'm probably going to be the one picking up a lot of stuff because this is a great expertise area from Anthony.
But we have, well, we have a basic presentation outlined, which you can see, but outside of that, it's going to be some free form discussion. We really just made some bullet items of some key points around
mitochondria. So we're going to dive into what mitochondria is, how it's the cell's powerhouse, some interesting facts about mitochondria role in performance, roles in health disease, and how we boost mitochondria's effectiveness with peptides and then what peptides are available and protocols as well as training and making it our ally in health. So we've got the bullet points planned out, but beyond that, that's about it. So join me in this learning process today.
Anthony, welcome to the show again, it. Is an honor to be here. I'm probably going to end up learning from you, to tell you the truth. I mean, as we said before, you're the one that really kind of got me started on this journey and I'm always grateful for that. Really excited about the discussion we're going to have today. I think, you know, when we think about mitochondria, it's arguably
most important organelle in the cell. So there's really going to be some cool stuff we covered today and I can't wait to get into it. Your humility always blows me away. So we're on a competition to see who's going to learn the most today, him or me. You'll have to excuse me, I'm sick. It is the first week of school and for some reason the back to school bug hits normally two to three weeks in. It hit everyone this first week and I got taken down
hard. Anthony sent me his not getting sick protocol, which of course it was already too late for me, so here I am. But I am feeling a little bit better. I thought I brought a cough drop down here with for me, but apparently, oh, I put it in my pocket, so. And then we will start discussion around mitochondria. All right, so I will start off and Anthony will correct me or add some more context as we go. But mitochondria are specialized structures within most cells,
we're often referred to as the powerhouse of the cells. They're responsible for generating the energy that cells need to perform their various functions. Mitochondria have their own DNA and are unique in that they can replicate independently of the cell's nucleus. The primary function of mitochondria is producing adesine triphosphate, ATP. Most anybody that trains has heard around this. That's the energy currency of the cell. And through a process called cellular
respiration. This involves breaking down glucose, fats and oxygen to produce ATPDev, which cells use to fuel essential activities like muscle contraction, nerve impulses and cell division. Why is it important? Well, number one, energy production. ATP. Mitochondria generates ATP through the process called oxidative polyphosphorylation. This energy is vital for powering all cellular processes, including muscle movement, brain function and heart contractions. Second one is cellular
metabolism. They play a central role in metabolism, converting nutrients from the food we eat into usable energy. This metabolic process is essential for maintaining the health and function of all cells in the body. And the third one is regulation of cell death. Aptitosis. You hear us use that word a lot. Mitochondria are involved in signaling pathways that control aptitosis or programmed cell death. This is crucial for eliminating damaged or dysfunctional cells,
preventing the development of diseases like cancer. A lot of issues from those cells building up and not processing out of the body. The fourth one is oxidative stress management. Mitochondria produces reactive oxygen species, Ros as a byproduct of energy production. While maintaining some ROS is important for signaling, excessive ROS can lead to oxidative stress, which damages the cells. Mitochondria contains antioxidant systems that help manage and neutralize ROS, protecting cells from
damage. And the fifth is a role in aging and longevity. Mitochondrial dysfunction is linked to the aging process in several aging related diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's. And maintaining healthy mitochondrial function is critical for longevity and reducing the impact of aging. And then it also supports, number six, supporting muscle and brain health. High energy demand tissues like muscles and the brain are particularly reliant on
efficient mitochondrial function. Inadequate energy production or mitochondrial dysfunction can lead to weak muscles, fatigue and cognitive decline. So that's just a pretty broad look at the importance in what mitochondria does. And I hope that gives us an overview of how we talk about this through and explain how this impacts all these things from performance, health, disease, how we boost it, and then
how we employ peptides. Is there anything that you'd like to add, I ran through that rather quick, but it's, I want to give a good overview. Great job of covering it. There's a couple things I'd add that are really kind of cool about the mitochondria. On the trivia side, we get all of our mitochondria from our mothers. So when we think about those mitochondria with their unique DNA, it's almost like we're getting this separate set of DNA that's only coming from our
mothers. And I actually just learned that fact, like, about a year ago, and I was like, blown away. How cool is that? Then when we think about the mitochondria and kind of what they do. You did an amazing job of covering all that stuff, Chris. I think the only thing I'd add in, they do also, that's really important, especially for those of us that are working out. They help to store calcium, and calcium is going to be required for, like, muscle contractions, communication between nerve
cells and other, other types of functions. And as you said, the apoptosis, that's huge. The reason we need apoptosis, when we think about, I'll use myself for an example, cross the half century mark. And if my cells never turned over, like, there'd be a lot of old cells that just don't want to work. So when we have apoptosis, that program cell death, what it's doing is it's kind of sweeping out all those bad cells so that the cells we continue to replicate are
the good ones. So when we talk about mitochondria's role in anti aging, or how do we maintain that youthful appearance or whatever youthful performance it really is, kind of that cleaning house, getting apoptosis going, getting those cells out of there and regenerating the good ones. The other kind of unique trivia fact type thing about mitochondria, that's kind of cool. Some of you are probably familiar with brown adipoise tissue compared to like a white adipoise tissue or
yellow adipose tissue. Yellow. Easiest way to explain it, if I'm out on the beach walking around with my fiance, and she's like, tuck your belly in. That's a yellow fat. We don't want that. Or the white fat, the brown fat, there's a process, it's called Beijing of fat, and it populates the fat with mitochondria and then they can store and release
heat thermogenesis. Like some of you coming from a lifting background, might be familiar with, like clinbuterol or some of the beta agonists and their mechanism of action. One of their mechanisms of action is that conversion of the undesirable fat to the Beijing of fat where it becomes brown fat and then has this dense bed of mitochondria. Yeah, I think that kind of covers everything about it in terms
of. Easiest way to. When I think about it, in my mind, easiest way I think about it is they're almost like this us treasury, and the currency that they print is adenosine triphosphate. So they can print as much of that money as they need to, but we got to keep that machinery healthy. And that kind of ties into the structure of a mitochondria. When we think about the structure, essentially it's these two layers. We've got inner outer membrane,
and in between there's. It's called cardiolipin, and it's almost like these little like tails that hook together and it works kind of like a cushion. And if that starts to get rigid or inflamed or break down, that's when the machinery starts to break down. That's when we don't print money, and that's when things start to go south. So that's kind of a broad overview of mitochondria and its structure and some of that.
Yeah, I think that's great. One thing, we've talked about the aptitosis a few times here, but if you have cell replication going on, we certainly want to have these dead or poor performing cells out of our system. This is where a lot of issues can come up, really. I think we've got some other episodes we have planned in the future kind of around specific to this. They're going to be a little bit controversial, I think, potentially, in what
we. Our approaches and thought processes around this. We've actually had several discussions on this and surprisingly have some very, very interesting thoughts that are, I would say, outside the norm. Wouldn't you agree, Anthony? I would agree, yep. Can you tell us some fun facts about mitochondria? Yeah. So it's really cool when you think about kind of the importance of them and just how much they do. When we think about, like, everything from our
eyes, like the health of our eyes. And of course, you know, I got glasses now, so I must not have great mitochondria or, you know, our performance on the field or in the gym or whatever, I. It all comes down to the production of energy. So when we think about the importance of mitochondria and kind of some fun facts is when these things are working, when they're making those packets of ATP, everything's
running smooth. It's great. But when we stop making energy, it's just like we're trying to fund a project without the funds to do it like we want to do it, but we just run out of energy. That's kind of why we got to keep the mitochondria healthy. And it'll make a lot more sense when we talk about some of the peptides and like the different roles they play in everything. Not to go too far off subject because as Chris said, we're going to cover this
in another episode. But when we think about things like disease states and senescent cells that like, haven't been swept out. If the mitochondria is not creating that apoptosis, one of the things that's going to happen is it's going to upregulate. It's called cd 38 and not going to quiz anybody on that. So don't worry. But when cd 38 gets upregulated it ends up kind of. It gives the, I guess best way to say it would be it gives a louder voice to
senescent cells and cancer cells. And they start hoarding all the glucose and all the Nad that gives energy to the mitochondria. So this poor mitochondria is getting duped. It's thinking like, oh, this is great. You know, I've got glucose for days. I'll just keep replicating. But it's replicating the wrong cell. So that's, that's where something like an apigenin would come in and we'll discuss that in another episode. But just to kind of.
Yeah, we touched on that the last episode as well. And that's why I brought up the cell replication again because, yeah, we definitely don't want to be in a situation where we're taking all these things that are going to help us, you know, perform better at a cellular level. And we're literally feeding these cells that we need to be turning over and clearing out of our system. Yeah, exactly. And another kind of cool thing about mitochondria, like of course we're going to cover the peptides and
get into some nutrition supplements. But one of the adaptations that we see like when we exercise, if we're doing high intensity interval training or even like zone two or really all different types of exercise, when we activate that ampk pathway, it's going to kind of slow down the cell growth. It's going to make the cell get better at using glucose. That's going to give the cell energy and that energy is going to allow. It's called
mitochondrial biogenesis. It's going to be, like, making more and more mitochondria. So when we think about mitochondria and their ability to make energy and their value, one of the things we want to kind of think about is, like, you know, just like, if we had an army, and if we've got ten soldiers, no matter how good they are, you know, it's ten soldiers. But if we've got 10,000 soldiers, even if they're not perfect, it's still going to be
pretty good. And if we've got 10,000 perfect soldiers, I mean, the world is ours. And that's when we talk about mitochondrial biogenesis and creating new mitochondria, maintaining mitochondrial health, that's what we're essentially doing. We're building this massive army of perfect mitochondria that's going to maintain things like eye function, brain function, all that stuff. And, yeah, it's
really. It's just so amazing to think that, like, everything that's happening in us depends on energy, and all that energy is coming from the mitochondria. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. The next. Oops. Oh, I should have had the. I had my slides out of sequence. There is my fun facts about mitochondria. So I didn't have our notes up. So great off the cuff discussion
there, Anthony. Thank you. So one of the things on the training increasing on mitochondrial biogenesis, this is one of the reasons, if you look at my rehab protocol and the things that I do with athletes when it relates to that, is also lining this up with things like the Myorep sequences, BFR things, where we're really pushing ourselves into a fatigue standpoint much earlier. It's also putting a lot of demands on the system, and it's upregulating a lot of the same factors that are happening
with peptides and works very concurrently with these. And this is a great time for us to actually, if you're timing peptides to do these either in the pre or post, even these mini sessions, which is what I'll have people do, let's say, where they can't take much fatigue on the structures because it's, again, maybe a post surgery standpoint where they have a lot of micro training, and by training, it's
like maybe I'm, you know, overstepping. That might be box squats with your body weight, you know, if they're more advanced than moving to single leg split squats, you know, these type of things where we're just starting to stimulate the blood flow, turnover you're supplying. So we're basically trying to drive the materials to the cell for the mitochondria to work with at the same time, and, you know, get the lymphatic, the blood flow, all
these things going, which are gonna be very complimentary. And that's one of the reasons I always, at some point in these podcasts, will reference this thing on my shelf, vaso blitz. Uh, that enhances all those factors with or without peptides, right? Because, um, it's. We're trying to work these same pathways, and that's what I typically try to do, whether it's somebody that's using peptides or not. We can do the same thing, uh, through stimulating
via exercise, which is actually the number one thing that you need to do. All right, number one life hack, what is it? Lifting weights? Trick question, right? Yeah, yeah. It's a muscle is a currency of aging. There's. For all the amazing stuff we have out here, there's nothing that is ever going to replace muscle and its value. Yeah, I think that's an important thing to us.
Make sure that we hit on in all of these, because a lot of times people may get caught up in, like, all the science and the compounds and everything, that you could go down the path and go, hey, what about the basics? Like, yes, we're assuming that you understand, but maybe sometimes we need to state that quite clearly. What are some of the best mechanisms for that? Strength training, high interval training, some aerobic activity, having good quality food in your system. That is, you
know, it's fundamental. Right? But don't, don't. As Stan efferding says, don't, don't step over a dollar to pick up a dime, right? Yep. Don't, don't major in the minors. Don't major in the minors. Yes. I watched a really funny video from Dean Guido today, I think. Another Canadian. I don't know why I love so many Canadians. I'm married to a Canadian, too. I love my Canadians.
You're close enough. You're in Ohio, you know, it's right there, you know, but it was a fitness influencer sitting at a table, just like, going through, like, all the negatives and how to make sure you've got proteins with your carbs and, you know, and it's like, how about just go for a walk, you know, like, it's true. Yeah. I got. Go ahead. So many of the things people are trying to accomplish, like when you think about just laying that foundation with hydration,
sleep just moving. There's, they'll be surprised how many boxes can be checked. Yeah. Just like, yeah. Proper cellular hydration. How is my, is how's that going to impact myochondrial function? Pretty basic. I'm jumping ahead. So let's, uh, let's work through, because we are getting in, going to get into those topics, but let's talk about mitochondria's role in, in performance.
Um, here's why mitochondria are important in performance. You know, we hit on, uh, energy production already, but ATP, mitochondria produces ATP that muscles require to contraction function during physical exercise, particularly endurance exercises like running or cycling. Muscles rely heavily on mitochondria to meet their energy needs. The greater the number of healthy mitochondria and muscle cells, the more efficient they can generate energy
enhancing performance. As far as aerobic capacity, mitochondria are key to aerobic metabolism. As much as I don't enjoy, you know, aerobic activity myself, it is very, it is very, uh, which most efficient way to produce ATP? Athletes with higher mitochondrial density can sustain longer periods of exercises
with less fatigue. Um, I should note, um, with my sprint training, my, my bedroom training has uh, been able to, uh, last much longer without getting my heart rate and my breathing quite is high and I like to stay in the game there. Endurance training with endurance training increases in mitochondrial size and number. That's the mitochondrial biogenesis we've been referring to, enhances the muscle's ability to use oxygen more efficiently, delaying fatigue and improving stamina.
Fatigue resistance, obviously very important in performance. Mitochondria help delay the onset of fatigue by improving the muscle's ability to oxidize fats and carbohydrates for energy. During prolonged exercise, glycogen stores decrease and mitochondria enable the body to switch to fat as an energy source, preserving glycogen stores and sustaining endurance. Lactate management well functioning mitochondria help clear lactate, a byproduct of ana
metabolism that leads to muscle fatigue. And I would, I like to just say acid, honestly, because there's no actual, you know, proof of lactic acid per se. But this allows for better recovery between high intensity intervals and reduces muscle soreness post exercise. Muscle and I recovery and repair. So mitochondria also plays a role in recovery after intense physical
activity. By supporting ATP production, mitochondria provides the energy required for tissue repair, protein synthesis and muscle regeneration. Antioxidant production mitochondria produces antioxidants that reduce oxidative damage caused by intense exercise. This helps to minimize cell damage and reduce inflammation and accelerate recovery and adaption to adaption to training. I mean like, that's the whole reason we train, is to
gain adaptation. Training, especially endurance and high intensity exercise stimulates mitochondrial biogenesis, the process of creating new mitochondria. This adaptation increases the capacity of muscles to generate energy and improves overall performance. The more mitochondria a muscle cell has, the better it can cope with increased energy demands during exercise. On VO two max, mitochondria improved efficiency is directly linked to improvements in Vo two max.
This is a key indicator of aerobic performance, which greater mitochondrial function allows athletes to perform at higher intensity for longer periods. As far as fat utilization and weight management, yeah, we kind of care about those things too. Mitochondria are responsible for burning fat is fueled particularly during prolonged exercise. Efficient mitochondria help the body tap into fat stores more effectively, promoting lean body
mass and aiding in weight management. Athletes with better mitochondrial function often have greater fat burning capacity, which supports energy efficiency during events, injury prevention and longevity. In sports, mitochondria are involved in managing cellular repair and reducing oculus stress, both of which contribute to long term athletic health. By reducing inflammation and aiding in tissue recovery, mitochondria plays a role in preventing overuse injuries, muscle damage, and long
wear and tear on the body. I hope this gives a pretty good overview of that. It's one of the reasons I've actually started putting, I'd say the sprinting in my program. Even though I don't really care for a lot of aerobic training. At the end of the day I watch my steps and things as well. And it's pretty crazy. I'll hit between ten to 30,000 steps in a day. So that's a lot of activity that I just stay active with
during, during a day. If I didn't do that, I'd be joining my wife on more of the long walks and things of that nature. Yeah, I think that's a pretty decent overview of all the functions. Did I miss anything with that? No. That's fantastic. I think perfect opportunity. Now that people kind of have this background and I feel like everybody should kind of have a sense of. Just to recap, mitochondria is like where the energy is made and so important for recovery health.
When it goes bad, we go bad. Now that people kind of understand that, I think it's going to make a lot more sense when we talk about the peptides, what they all do, their different effects in the mitochondria. And then it's going to make sense when we get to how do we combine these and how do we build optimal peptide stacks. It really just comes down to having that foundational understanding of what a mitochondria is, how it's built, what happens inside of it.
Did an amazing job of covering that. Yeah, I tried to lay it into some of the things that, relative to, like, what people may see me doing. Again, if you look at my social media or my wife's social media, particularly, you'll see a really well rounded diet with a lot of whole foods. Like those are going to support mitochondrial function. Right. With diets rich in antioxidants, um, you know, omega three fatty acids. I'm a big proponent of, uh, you know, carnitine, uh, as
a supplement that has a big impact on it. But the, the recent addition, because realizing strength training, even though I do a lot of, uh, what I call metabolic resistance training, I keep saying I hate aerobic. But, you know, this is where I'll pair, you know, BFR, I'll pair exercises. So literally, my equipment is built. This isn't important. Let's step
back. This is the foundation behind, like a flywheel or the cue bell, for example, is the ability for you to change the weight in one exercise to the next so that you, one, you can do mechanical drop sets with never stopping. You can move from another one exercise to another exercise continuous. So all of a sudden, you can do a giant set of resistance training. So a lot of my resistance training over the last several years that people are on my social media
going, wow, you're aging in reverse. You look so much different, even your face. It's because the level of inflammation is down in my body. Right. But my training, I might train for 15 or 20 minutes as one set, rest for five to eight minutes, and then repeat, and then I'm done. And so I've been gaining a lot of that by actually using tools in a different function and thus also adding the sprinting in to do, uh, high intensity
interval training. True high intensity interval training. It should be noted that most people do not do actual high intensity interval training when they think that they're doing it. It truly needs to, like understanding what high intensity is. I don't know if you want to elaborate on that, uh, at
all, Anthony, but I I just. It's rarely that I see, you know, people on an exercise bike doing hithenne, and it's not hit like, it is not at a threshold that would meet the intensity requirements for actual hit training. Yeah, I think I agree. I see that often that people think they're doing hit and they're doing, you know they hear about tabatas 20 seconds on, 10 seconds off. But better way to think about intervals or at least how it makes sense in my mind is I
try to think about a work to rest ratio. And that work to rest ratio is going to work a different energy system. So to give you an example like in football, average play is 8 seconds pedal time 30 seconds. So if we think about that, that's about roughly one to three work to rest ratio. So if we're trying to duplicate that then that one, if we really want to see an adaptation and this kind of goes back to the intervals thing, it's got to be like
your eyes are popping out of your head. Your heart's about to beat out of your chest for that 8 seconds and then 30 seconds rest. That's going to prepare you and that energy system better for when you go play. Compared to a lot of times, you know people get on a bike, exercise bike or treadmill and they go pretty hard. But not a significant jump in that heart rate. And then you know they rest a little bit. So if you kind of average it out or you look at
where their heart rate is. It's really just kind of like barely above that zone two zone. Maybe a little bit like zone three type of thing. But not really enough to truly be an interval. I think you're exactly right. Yeah. So I'm thinking back, I actually think I've missed a couple of key points as it relates to their relation to health. So I did talk about weight management. But I uh. More of the impact on regulation of the metabolism, immune support and
role in brain health and neuroprotection. I kind of hit on those. Just a cursory, should I dive into that deeper? Do you want to, do you want to hit anything on those? We can um uh. Either hit those separate or um. As we're explaining the peptides um. There's a lot of that that's going to kind of be covered. And it'll become a little bit more clear because of their mechanism of action. Why some would be ones that you choose for your brain or your heart or your
exercise. Memetic effect or that sort of thing. Yeah. Cause like for the immune system you're gonna get the same production of Ros. You're gonna activate macrophages. So you're gonna queue up that immune system. Which sounds silly me saying this while I'm sick. Right. But you know obviously the reduction in chronic inflammation is going to have an impact across the board, as well as with
autoimmune conditions. And I have seen significant improvement over that with myself over the last several years with my autoimmune by implementing these protocols. It's literally changed my life as it relates to it. And the neuroprotective side, we've talked about how, you know, brain is a, you know, a big high demand for mitochondrial. So cognitive function, memory, energy necessary for neurons communicating, performing their functions,
you know, those are all roll into that. So I'll skip diving into it further so we can jump into some of the next things. So let's see, we discussed peak performance. Oh, no, never mind. I was getting into the health factor, so I'm getting a little ahead of myself. Yeah, I'll just read in the slide here, mitochondrial dysfunction, neurodegenerative disease, cardiovascular diseases, mitochondrial dysfunction. Do you want to dive
into any of those? Sure. Yeah. When we think about, like, aerobic respiration and glycolysis, oxidative phosphorylation, you know, these things that are normally happening inside a cell, a good way to think about, like, the disease or this would kind of make more sense is if we sort of explain the process of what happens when things go wrong. So it's called the Warburg effect.
People may or may not have heard of it. And basically, what happens in the Warburg effect is a person, they have cancer cells that are producing the energy, and normally, like, the healthy cells, are going to be getting energy by using oxygen to break down sugar through aerobic respiration. But what happens, like, in the Warburg effect is these cancer cells tend to use a different process. They start to use glycolysis, and even when oxygen is available, they're still using
sugar. And what happens, essentially, the sugar is feeding their, feeding the wrong cells. So to make a simple, or this will make it more simple, to make a simple analogy, if you can imagine, like a factory, the cell that usually runs on electricity, which would be like the oxygen, because it's efficient and
produces a lot of energy. And just to draw a parallel, like going back to the training discussion, like, if we're zone two or we're walking or we're doing kind of a longer activity, those are oxygen dependent aerobic activities. And that's kind of what our cell likes. But a cancer cell, instead of using this electricity or oxygen, is going to decide to use, like, backup generators, and that's the
glycolysis. And with those, because it's less efficient at producing energy, it's not going to make as many of those atps that we were talking about earlier. These generators kind of work faster. They help the cancer cells grow and divide, and that kind of thing spiral out of control. So
to kind of reverse this, like, you have to kind of. That's one of the reasons that some of the stuff out there says, you know, take the sugar away from people with cancer, they feed off of it, because if they don't have the sugar coming in, which essentially fuels glycolysis, then theoretically, you know, you're kind of starving the cancer cell.
And that's why even, like, when we think kind of on the brain health thing in something like Huntington's disease, being able to change the cell metabolism back to an oxygen dependent state where it can't burn through glucose so fast, that's why they've begun studying good old DNP for Huntington's disease, because of its ability to essentially make it harder for the cell to make energy. That makes sense. I wasn't aware of that one. I've definitely aware of some of the other applications as it
relates to that, but that makes a lot of sense. Yes, I came across literature a couple weeks ago. I started, I was reading, and of course, the DNP comes up and I recognize that. And I'm like, for Huntington's? And then, you know, when you read about it and you kind of think about what's happening, it starts to make sense. And I was actually. No, I did, I did read that last year. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, it's crazy.
The one of the challenges you see with, like, especially when people get brain cancer and these mitochondria are dysfunctional is a lot of things that could potentially, like, derail this Warburg effect or feeding the cancer cells don't have that ability to cross the blood brain barrier. So there's a challenge in terms of, one, finding something that's going to be targeted, so not hit too many different tissues, because you might not want to have that effect in all the tissues. And two,
that's going to cross the blood brain barrier. But it's interesting they're looking at that. Yeah, chronic fatigue syndrome, that's definitely a prominent one of signs of mitochondrial dysfunction, where individuals experience extreme and persistent fatigue that's not alleviated by rest. So chronic fatigue syndrome is often linked to an ability of mitochondria to produce sufficient injury, leading to muscle weakness, poor endurance, and basically general lethargy across the board.
So I think it's pretty easy to see mitochondria's fundamental role in health and performance and its role in production of energy for the metabolism, cellular repair, and how all this rolls into its impact on disease. Yeah. Even when we think about, like, when we get sick and we have that post viral fatigue, and mitochondria is not as efficient at making
energy. And one of the fuel sources for mitochondria that donates electrons nAd, that it's called the chironin pathway, and it's got to do with, like, tryptophan metabolism, melatonin. Two of the things that happen that lead to that excessive fatigue afterwards are by alterations in that pathway. We're not producing the nad through that particular pathway. And then there's also dysregulation and the amount of serotonin we're producing. So we get, like, that
really lethargy. And on top of that, the cell, because it's been in a state of, generally, a state of, like, where it's using, because of that upregulated cd 38 we talked about, it's using glucose more, and we got to switch it back, because right now it's got, if you could just imagine this heap of sugar sitting outside of it, it's trying to catch up on. So it's overworking and doing so it's, you know, making the problem worse.
So that's why. And this probably a whole nother episode, that's why something like a ketone ester is so effective, because then you have something that doesn't have to be broken down. It can fuel the cell without giving it sugar. It can let it get caught up on that kind of clear out that pile of sugar and get back to doing the things it's supposed to be doing. Yeah, one of the things so I found is, well, grab my vaso blitz here,
too. I put lactate in this, as calcium is the form that the lactate comes in. But those demands, in high demand situations where we want those glucose stores to go to the muscle, we may lose some cognitive ability. And we see that with blood lactate levels in testing and the impaired cognitive function during or immediately post exercise, having a lactate source available for the brain to function off of, which is actually a preferential source for it, significantly enhances
that ability. And what I found interesting is with some people that have some cognitive issues. Again, these are just clients that I've worked with have reported the huge impact that adding that lactate in there as a source has an overall impact with these people that are dealing with in this particular situation, like adrenal type fatigue and where taking caffeine a whole other stimulant source doesn't deliver them the same cognitive function that actually having the base raw materials.
So ketones would be a different sort of. And more powerful in general than that. But I just. I think it's. To me, I find this stuff really fascinating when all of a sudden somebody's like, hey, that's working really well for this. And I'm like, well, that's not the reason that it's there, but that's really cool. Yeah. They're just starting to discover it's like a glucose
lactate shuttle. And, like, when you eat carbohydrates and how it breaks it into glucose, and then your cells use that glucose for energy, produce glycolysis. And that happens in the cytoplasm, which is kind of like the cells workshop. And the byproduct, of course, is a lactate. And when you think about the journey of that lactate, instead of going to waste, that lactate can actually go to other areas of the body. It's called a lactate
shuttle. And the cells and the muscles and especially the brain can really take that lactate, convert it back into energy very efficiently. In fact, it was really cool. They found a strand of bacteria. I'm going to butcher the name, but I'm going to try villanella atypica. And it's a gram negative anaerobic bacteria. And in a lot of elite athletes in all different sports, they found, like, a really significant amount of
this particular strand of bacteria. And what it does, it seems like it makes them more efficient at using lactate for an energy source. So, like, in my simple brain, so it makes sense. I just kind of think about it like, it's. If you had, like, a stick of dynamite, it would be like having that same stick of dynamite is now three sticks of dynamite. Like, you can use it a lot more efficiently, and it's got a bigger bang. So kind of some cool research
around that, but, yeah, well, I hate. I hate even bringing it up because it's one of my secret weapons of that product. When I first came out with it, it was the first daily use, you know, nitrate product, because everybody was just putting it in the pre workouts. I think I mentioned that on the last episode, which it takes a chronic, chronic dosing, not an acute dosing, to. To achieve its effects, but one of the others, that one of the secrets is the actual
lactate that's in there as well. So, anyway, that was really smart. So I hate letting it out. Just want to. But I love it. That's awesome. Boosting mitochondria with peptides. I think it should be pretty self evident how peptides can enhance the mitochondrial function. Um, you know, uh, it's gonna, you know. Yeah, I don't know if you want to dive into it, but the bullet points I've got there, pretty, pretty straightforward. Um, yeah, yeah. We've got a pretty robust toolbox
when it comes to mitochondrial peptides. And a lot of them, um, like they all are going to have some effects like mitochondrial biogenesis and some of that stuff. But as we go through them, we can talk about some of the unique aspects of them and some synergy between them and that kind of thing. And it's really cool. So kind of a fun one to start with is iCar. It's Aicar and it's five amino amino myodazole, four carboximide ribonucleotide.
Not going to quiz anybody on that. And when you think about it, like, what's this big jumbled up word mean? ICar is just like a metabolic booster and it activates AMPK. And that's going to be a key enzyme that acts like a cellular fuel gauge. So when energy levels drop, this AMPK is activated to restore balance by encouraging the body to use stored fats for energy and increase glucose uptake in the cells. So what the icar does is it promotes mitochondrial biogenesis, which, as Chris was
talking about, that's a creation of new mitochondria. And it does this by improving cellular energy production and enhancing endurance. And when we think about like, how does it do this? Like how's, you know, I hear all this, but I don't understand how it works. It's really cool. What it does is it mimics the low energy state in a cell. And in doing that, it tricks the cell into thinking or signaling the AmpK pathway. And that's where you're going to have that enhanced fat burning and
glucose utilization. So kind of in nutshell, when you think about the iCAr, it's going to be something that can boost endurance, promote fat loss and improve insulin sensitivity. Anything you want to add to that, Chris, or. No, I don't have any. I have not had experience with that one, so I'll let you handle that. You didn't give it to me for my notes either, man. Oh, shoot. Sorry. No, I was going to put it, I'm going to put it in here. I just didn't want to. How do you spell that?
Aicar. Okay, that's my fault. I'm familiar with it, but I have not used that one. So I have used Motsi with good effects. So increased mitochondrial biogenesis, leading to more mitochondria. It does the same thing that we were talking about. Insulin sensitivity. Definitely notice a. A noted increase in endurance and fat loss. I think that's one of the main applications that people go to Motsi is for the fat loss, but that's encouraged by the fat oxidation
and preservation of glycogen stores. And then obviously, they protects against the oxidative stress. But I've seen good success with Mot circumental for all these areas. Exercise capacity and fat burning are definitely noted through those mechanisms. Yeah, mat C is incredible. And there's actually a lot of synergy with MATC. And I car with the icar. You want to do that iv? If that's an option. It's got a really short half life.
So the positive effects you're going to, that you'll see will really be like, if you can do it iv, the montsee. I mean, it's amazing. And they just keep coming out with more and more research about its application. Benefits in the vascular endothelial function for the cardiovascular system. And the one that I actually just learned about is it promotes osteoblast
proliferation, differentiation, and mineralization. So, like, when we think about bone health, it inhibits osteoclast production, and it promotes osteoblast proliferation, which is super cool. And as you mentioned, it helps with insulin sensitivity. And in doing so, it's got some protective effects in the liver because it can alleviate the non alcoholic liver disease. The nash. Yeah, it's Mont C is one of my go to's. I think that for almost any peptide stack, you can make
a good case for putting it in there. Yeah, one of my only issues is at dosage. It's a fairly expensive peptide, so I've only use that. I don't use it too frequently, uh, depending on, you know, a person's budget. Uh, but, uh, really beneficial. And then, yeah, I would definitely employ it with, uh, any liver function where we're
pushing. Trying to push, uh, some of those mechanisms where we talked about with, um, uh, senescent cells and aptitosis, um, tied in with that because, you know, that's a. Obviously the ability to pair those off and, uh, you know, is gonna be very valuable in that and get to the point where we're actually burning the fatty liver, which a lot of people don't realize that you can do. Uh, the, you know, scientific literature says that. That can't be done. Um, but in
practice, it can be done. It certainly can be done where we can actually reverse not the scarring of the liver, but the. The fatty liver. Uh, but you've got to get your. You know, your fat reserves really low and be able to metabolize those. And Motsi is one of those ones that can drive. Drive that fat into the system. Yeah. And it even has anti inflammatory effects on interleukin six and the tumor necrosis factor alpha. That's like. I mean, it checks so many
boxes. It is expensive, so that's kind of a knock against it. When we think about the signaling with MATC, it's going to be something that generally interacts with the outer membrane of the mitochondria, and that's where some of that amp case signaling comes from. It's almost like that's why they call it an exercise memetic. That would be like a reaction to the oxidative stress would be the easiest way to explain it. SS 31. So SS 31 actually binds to the. I don't know how
you pronounce it. Cardiolipid. Yeah. Lipid found in the inner mitochondrial membrane, stabilizing it and protecting that membrane from damage, and, again, reduces oxygen species. So, ros, minimizing oxidative stress, preventing mitochondrial damage. So I used SS 31 in my post. It was my post elbow surgery, and that seems a little weird, but I. This last elbow surgery, and I'll talk about this on a few podcasts that we do here. I. My healing protocol is just
like. It's tits. Like, I've not seen anything better. And, um. But the spring back from, you know, the inflammation from the surgery, the. The inflammation in the brain from the, uh, putting you under. Uh. This is what I was really wanting, to be able to walk out of that surgery. Cause I don't need pain medications, and, well, they put me under. I have that pain medication, but
following surgery, I don't need pain medications. And I'm like. I just wanted to spring back and see how fast I could get to normal function. And SS 31 was one of the ones that I used this last time for the inflammatory response. It's commonly triggered by the mitochondrial dysfunction, but there was a bunch that I hit on cognitive function and inflammation.
And this one makes it useful for chronic inflammation as well as cardiovascular disease, degenerative disease, and metabolic syndrome as well, related to those anti inflammatory properties. Yeah, it's incredible. I mean, that is, if you're talking about repairing the mitochondria that's probably one of the most important ones because it stabilizes that mitochondrial membrane with the cardio lipid in
there when it binds to it. So it's like, when going back to our original analogy of a printing press and dollar bills, it'd be like if that press was, like, smoking and shaking. And on its last leg, it's kind of like, all right, let's get those bolts tightened. Let's get it working again. So, it's really amazing. It's got tremendous benefit for kidney. It's in stage three of human trials for macular degeneration with eyesight, and they're continuing to find more
and more uses for it. Again, that's one that can be kind of expensive. So that's. And that's probably the problem with a lot of these mitochondrial peptides. Not so much that they're not effective, but just. It can cause atrophy of the wallet. That's a good one. Yeah, I saw results in a pretty short period of time with it. So that's. That was one benefit is like, it's sometimes there's some fairly expensive ones that you. That are short duration on. That can be pretty valuable
where, you know, typically, if someone's. You know, I talk about the mot C, somebody's wanting to achieve fat loss, which just simply takes time. Right. Yeah. So. So that's where, you know, doing that for an extended period of time. Like, it's. It's pretty spendy in general. So the next. The next two, SBT 272 and CB 4211, I don't have much exposure on those ones. I
don't actually even know sources for that. I know you've got a lot better resources on that end, but I believe this has an impact on the cardiolipin as well as ATP production and oxidative stress. Yeah, it's exactly right. The SBT 272 is made by stealth. Biotechnology is the same company that made the SS 31. And right now, they're looking at using SBT for Alzheimer's because it easily crosses a blood brain barrier and a myotropic lateral sclerosis, like the ALS.
And essentially, like, in terms of unique benefits, I wouldn't say so much that there's unique benefits other than it crosses the blood brain barrier easier. But I think they're thinking with this is we've got something that covers the body with SS 31, and we can cover the eyes with that, and now we've got something for the brain.
And since we've got mitochondria in every cell, this kind of clears that hurdle of how do we do something that's going to cross that blood brain barrier and be able to get it to where we need it to be? Nice. And the CB 4211. Yeah, so that's a pretty cool one. That is. Cobar Pharmaceuticals is the company that is doing the research on that one and that one. It's. It's kind of a, I guess almost like if you think about Mati C as a branch, it would be. Or a tree, it would
be like a branch of Monsea. And they made a few modifications to it that allows it to be a little bit more tissue specific. So it's really amazing at fat burning, even more so than Mon C. And what they're looking at it for is non alcoholic fatty liver disease and improving insulin sensitivity does both of those really well. It works through fatty acid oxidation and insulin signaling pathways. And it's currently should be in the compounding pharmacies probably in the next
week or two, actually. By the time this, by the time we are, I believe it'll probably be in there. But in terms of therapeutic application, especially like for a non alcoholic fatty liver disease, it really does some pretty amazing things. Doctor Justin. Yeah, I think that non alcoholic fatty liver disease is very treatable in this day and age based on the mechanisms that we have available. And that sounds really great in regards to it.
Yeah, very fascinating. Certainly could be paired up in combination with some other mechanisms as well to facilitate, I'm sure, based on how that operates. Yeah, absolutely. And just to kind of reinforce, like the reason these are mitochondrial peptides have this effect in fatty liver disease. Again, going back to the different ways that the mitochondria makes energy, how it likes to have oxygen, likes to metabolize fat, use sugar also. And we think about that fat kind
of piling up in the liver when it shouldn't be. When we've got cells that can really efficiently burn through that fat, contribute to the beta oxidation, then we don't get that buildup. And the buildup we have starts to go away because those cells are so revved up and using so much of that fat for energy. So that's if you're interested in mitochondrial peptides and kind of reading about the newest developments in them, one of the great areas of research to focus on is going
to be non alcoholic fatty liver disease. Yep, yep. Yeah, absolutely. And anybody listening to this that needs some help or assistance with that, please reach out to Anthony. And I can't say that I'm taking any clients as it relates to this, but yeah, reach out to Anthony. There's. I mean, without a doubt, this is something that people believe is non treatable and certainly, certainly is now. It needs to be paired with some, you know, diet and
lifestyle changes and as well as some supplementation. But based on your unique, you know, situation, your blood work, all these things that, you know, a very specific protocol for you can be done that will likely yield notable results. Human ends. An interesting one. You know, it safeguards. Sorry, I'm looking at the wrong screen here instead of the camera. Human end is an interesting one. You know, it works through safeguarding the mitochondria,
through reducing oxidative stress. And then again, we see the same impact on this with anti aging, longevity, neuroprotection, like health. What are your experiences with human end? Absolutely love it. It really has some unique benefits that kind of slide under the radar if somebody is having trouble sleeping. I've used a low dose of humanin for ten days. It works in the brain. Mitochondria in the brain. So that's kind of a cool thing with it. Yeah, it
protects the neurons in the brain. Right. Protects neurons in the brain, reduces oxidative stress. It works through, like, insulin signaling pathways, and it improves glucose homeostasis. So going back to remember when we talked about the Warburg effect and, like, how it's just using all the sugar it creates, it kind of stabilizes that, kind of slows that down. So there's some cool effects there. It also can protect neurons from the toxicity. Yeah. The amyloid b toxicity
reduction. Yep. Yep, absolutely. And if you have an ischemic event, because it can interact with the mitochondria in the brain, it's one of the better. That and thymosin beta four really good go to. For ischemic events there. I've seen some studies of tb four first chemic events paired with a few different things. I'm not sure if I've seen that with humanin, but it very much makes sense that that would be really a great, great combo. Yeah, yeah. It's just another. When I think about it is
like. So if I'm thinking about Matzi, I kind of put that in a performance category. When I think about SS 31 and human, and I put those in more of a reparative category, I carve would be more performance. SBT 272 and CB 4211. Those are kind of in the middle with maybe, I guess, probably a little bit closer to performance, but in the middle. A lot of therapeutic benefit there. Yeah. What about it has an impact on the telomere
length as well. With the cellular lifespan, it's going to keep the telomeres from unraveling, is that correct? No, it interacts with them, actually. I'll have to look that up. That sounds correct to me.
For listeners that don't know what a telomere is, the way that I think about it, if you look down at your shoes, your shoelaces and the plastic around your shoelace that keeps it from getting frayed and messed up, and the shoelace would be like the DNA that part around the plastic around it, that's like your telomere. And when those start to wear down and
shoelaces exposed, it's the same kind of thing. When your telomeres wear down, your DNA starts getting messy and then, you know, you're making replications of the wrong thing. So protecting the telomeres is absolutely important. And I think with the brain protective effects of human. And I could absolutely see that being something it could do. Yeah. For an anti aging protocol, pairing
that with epithalon would be really great. There'd be a. I would see a synergistic effect from the mitochondrial protection, the neuroprotection and metabolic regulation of the human end, and the impact on the cellular health of the telomeres. And then epithalon, which would be enhance your telomore lengthening. Interesting. Epithelium also impacts sleep. So you've got your. I wonder how that would pair together. But antioxidant and DNA repair with epithalon. But both of those are going to
help improve your circadian rhythm. So I think that you would see, um, some pretty good effects by pairing those for, you know, anti aging longevity, uh, potentially neuro. Neuro protection and oxidative stress reduction. So, um, yeah, that'd be. Yeah, absolutely. Actually use that combo and you're 100% right. Great, uh, great results.
And when I think about epitalin and its effects on the circadian clock, what I like to do is, you know, with the different seasons and the different daylight cycles, basically, I time my epitalin stacks with circadian, or the biology around us, our environmental seasons and everything. So, essentially, in beginning of winter, beginning of fall, beginning of summer, beginning of, uh, spring. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. How often do you,
uh. Would you run, uh, epithal on? Kind of getting off on a tangent, but, um, yeah, no. Um, there's a couple different thoughts on that. Um, some people like the, like, low dose all year, and I'm more of a. When I'm thinking about how it works and, you know, kind of cycling through peptides. I'm more of a ten day guy at the beginning of the season because what I'm using it for, primarily outside of the protecting the telomeres because either protocol
accomplished that. I'm looking more at calibrating my circadian biology. And with the change in daylight, the length of daylight, that's when your circadian rhythm is going to kind of be playing catch up and trying to sort that out. So if you. Or at least what I've done is five days before the season changes and through five days after is when I run my epitalin and really seems to be a smooth transition as far
as sleep goes energy. And I don't feel any of that dysregulation that sometimes comes with like the time change or whatever. Nice. I'll have to. I'll have to give that a try. I've only done a lot of the long, it's been probably four or five years since I've used any. But I. I used it solid for a couple years just to see the effects. And yeah, it's. I love to get my hands on some again. Do you want to dive into the shlps and small molecules? I think that that's
definitely. Sure a good area for you to spend some time on. Yeah, absolutely. So the shlps, I just call them the schlepps. But SHlP, actually what it stands for is a small human like peptide. And when we think about those, there's like SHLP 12345 and six. And just like the humanin that we talked about already, these are essentially like little fragments of the human. And so just little sequences within that big
humanin molecule and or peptide. And each of them, they're kind of in the process of researching some of the different therapeutic applications. Like the schlep one particularly good for oxidative stress, mitochondrial function, like all of them, but it seems to be particularly good at producing cellular energy under when the cell is kind of survival conditions and there's been oxidative damage.
Also has some neuroprotective properties that they're looking at for some different Alzheimer's and Parkinson's situations. The schlep two has anti apoptotic effects, meaning it helps prevent cell death. So remember the mitochondria? One of the things it does is it regulates
the apoptosis. And this essentially looks like it might be, if you think about a car and you got a gas pedal, that's saying apoptosis in your brake, that's saying like, whoa, we don't want to kill the good cells, this would be like getting your brakes checked, making sure that you're not killing off good cells. And then the schlep three that's involved in regulating the mitochondrial metabolism and insulin sensitivity,
just kind of thinking outside the box. If you have somebody that is coming to you, GLP ones are part of their protocol. As far as what's accessible right now. Like, that's where I absolutely lean on, like, a mot c and get that improvement in insulin sensitivity or cb 4211. But as the research continues to come out and the schleps are available, schlep three might be a real specific thing you could put in for even maybe a greater effect.
And they're looking at it for diabetes as part of a diabetes treatment, too, which is kind of cool. The schlep four helps modulate inflammation and immune response. And then the schlep five is when we think about, like, mitochondrial function and increasing expression of, like, the mitochondrial related proteins. So, like, you know, how they have their own DNA and all that stuff, and, like, the fission and fusion that occurs, like, throughout that mitochondrial network,
schlet five is almost like the. The master controller in there, or at least it looks like it, the way that I think about it, like, because I always have to make stuff simple so I can. It resonates with me, and I like to make it practical, too.
So schlep five, what's really cool about it, and when we think about, like, the regulation of these proteins and creating new mitochondria, what it's actually being explored for, and this is why it resonated with me, is for age related cognitive decline since I'm 51, and muscle wasting, which, you know, at 51, I'm still, like, the guy that wants to put on muscle and all that stuff. So anytime I hear prevents muscle wasting, like, bells go off, I'm happy.
And then the schlep six, the last one, it's unique in that it induces apoptosis under stress conditions, particularly in cancer cells. So it's really cool in that it seems to act sort of like a tumor suppressor, and it's selective and how it does that. So somehow or other, it seems to have this ability to kind of look for different forms of lymphoma, cancer cells, tumors, and only make those cells die, which is really something we haven't seen before.
So more research will be done on that one, but that's kind of the rundown on those. All right, I'm wondering, because I think the discussion on the small molecules could be pretty interesting. And we're running late on time. Should we save that for like, a little mini episode, maybe? That's a good idea. There's so much to cover and. Man, those are super cool. Those are. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited to talk about them. I'm excited to dig into those. So. Yeah, yeah, I think let's do a. Let's do a micro
episode. So, guys, definitely hang on. There might have mitochondrial enhancing peptides, but we'll do a. We'll do a separate piece on that. Now, I think we did cover a lot of this already, but mitochondrial protocols, um, any, any changes that you would, uh, make? I think this is just some notes that, um. So I'm not sure if they're accurate to. To your thoughts or not. Um, but, uh, performance enhancement, Motsi and SS 31. So boosting exercise and fat metabolism, longevity and anti aging human
and the shlps. Supporting brain health, combating age related decline and promoting long term mitochondrial health. We also talked about maybe using, uh, epiphalon in there. I. Metabolic health, the CB 4211 and SBT 272, although I think you talked about putting the SBT 272 into the performance realm. Is that right? It could go in there. I think, like, metabolic health or the health of the mitochondria repair is good place
for it. But there were some other peptides outside of these mitochondrial ones that you mentioned that might be good combos for this metabolic health as well. Yeah, definitely just a couple of peptides and even nutrition supplements that are really. You're going to get some synergy there. So when you think about, like, providing energy to the mitochondria, and we've established, like, it loves when it can use fat for an
energy source. And using carnitine is a great way to shuttle that fat to the mitochondria. And just like, you know, when an engine is really running, our mitochondria is really running. Absolutely. That is a foundational one that I would have anyone using while using any of these supplements would be settling out. Carnitine. Do you have preference over oral or injectable? Yeah. So the. With the carnitine, what I like to do is if somebody's using growth hormone or growth hormone
releasing hormone. Growth hormone releasing peptide. I like to do a microdose of the injectable carnitine around then because it's going to drive that beta oxidation. And then I do microdose of injected carnitine after a workout because it'll decrease histone deacetylation, which has to do with gene replication then prior to the workout, I'll do like a choline carnitine combination, pretty modest dose injected as well. And that's going to
do a lot of cool things. It's going to help mobilize fat for an energy source, and it's going to help stabilize some of the cell cell membranes in there. And so that's kind of my thoughts on the carnitine stuff. I'm spot on with you. I typically don't do the post one, but I would definitely. I always pair and then do. I love the pre workout, particularly to enhance some performance at times, too, if I want to
shuttle some extra carbohydrates in the system. But pairing that with, you know, my vaso blitz and other, like, it's just
absolutely phenomenal. I should do the post, but I just don't. So. Yeah, I think too, like, in terms of some other things that really help is, and I think we touched on this a little bit in the last episode, but, like, the one MNA, if somebody's got inflammation, that's something that'll maximize the nad that we have without really kind of putting it into that super like, garden hose turned all the way
on where you're feeding the wrong cells. And then, of course, you know, whenever you do something that's modulating or affecting your nad, it's a good idea to take that epigenin with it. Alternatively, like, if you're looking for more of a performance fat loss, like, I love the combination of, like, Motsi with AOD 9604, five amino, one MQ epigenin, and then generally like, a Tessa Moreland CJC combination in the evening, that's, that is. That is a money making stack right there. I love
that. Yeah. Yeah. If people want to know more about, you know, some general broad range dosage guidelines, and you can visit, there's a link in the video where to this to our school community. It's a free community. We've got tons of education in there and a lot of breakdowns, written article form. We don't dive necessarily as deep as what we're doing on this podcast, so we're really enjoying doing this together, but it'd be really tough to start getting into
dosage guidelines and stuff like that. And again, anytime that that's out there, that's a pretty generic guideline and doesn't necessarily cover if you're combining it with other things. So always feel free to reach out for some individualized guidance as it makes sense. Yeah. Really appreciate everybody taking the time to listen to our hour and a half long dives into peptides and such. And we're going to keep crushing them out whether you like them or not because we do.
Any last things you'd like to add on this episode? Anthony, I just want to thank you again for having me on here. I love our conversations and again I learn every time I'm around you. And we do have such a great community with the school. I can't say enough great things about it each week. I look forward to our phone calls and the content that's posted up in there. We have such a diverse group of people with so many experiences and so much
different knowledge to bring. If you've got a growth mindset, whether it's about peptides training, business life, I mean there's some great people to interact with in there. Yeah. Yeah. No it's, it's definitely not a peptide group. It's about amplifying your life like in all ways physiologically as well as mentally. And so there's tons that we've got a book club as well but it's yeah this is just one of the methods for doing that and we like doing a deep dive on stuff.
And so trying to share the pieces of information that you know, I've gathered or from the people that I brought into you know, my circle through the years to really get some, some deeper level of content on these subjects out there. Because the knowledge is there but maybe not available. And so yeah, join, show your support. Absolutely. Have a great week everybody. And thanks again for joining us. All right. Thank you.