Hello again and welcome to Arch Eats where we take a deeper dive into the things that listeners may not know about the restaurant scene here in Saint Louis with me. As always on this journey is my friend, co-host Copilot cohort Cheryl Bear. And I can say happy holidays again, my friend. Yes, happy holidays. I wish we were doing this with a web cam. They would see our festive gear today. I'm not sure that would be a great idea, but i it's hard for me to take you seriously
in those reindeer antlers. But I'm, I'm glad you, I'm glad you wore them. This episode of Arch Eats is sponsored by Westport Plaza. Joining us will be restaurateur, Ben Pemba. Then we will finish as we always do with a micro rant this time about restaurant appetizers specifically how they're traditionally served and how they should be served. But first we'll begin as we always do with what I can't stop thinking about this week. And Cheryl you gave me a hint and I can't
believe you're going there again. Well, I'm trying to redeem the green bean casserole, so I'm sure I broke a lot of hearts or maybe no one really cares. But when I grandma's hearts, yes, I broke a lot of grandma's hearts and maybe Campbell's Soup Company's heart. When I professed my deep seated disdain for the green bean casserole, I, um, I don't need to rehash that. It's just not my favorite dish. It's not even close to my favorite dish.
It's maybe my least favorite holiday dish. However, I recently went to Cellar House, which is a restaurant in Oakville, Deep, deep South County Chloe Yates is the chef. It's just a wonderful neighborhood restaurant. She's doing a lot of fun things there. And one of the things she's doing is they've turned the entire restaurant into a Christmas pop up dinner.
They aren't just doing some holiday specials. They've basically thrown out their regular menu and their cocktail menu and their cocktail menu and they are doing um, really wonderful kind of traditional, you know, think figgy pudding and goose pie and all of these just very quintessential kind of old school Christmas dishes. One of the dishes she's doing is a take on the green bean casserole. That is wonderful. It is actually a savory cannoli. So think green bean casserole. But instead
it is um, Eric o just sauteed. Um, they stuffed into a house made super flaky cannoli shell, green bean. Did you see green beans? Cannoli? Yes. A green bean cannoli. I promise you. And my Italian foremothers and forefathers, um, they would approve. It's actually quite delicious. Um And then instead of, you know, the Campbell's soup filling, she puts like a mushroom, kind of like a creamy mushroom sauce at the bottom of the plate and then stacks two cannoli on top of there, it is delicious.
It is the green bean casserole for green bean casserole haters. Wow. That really, actually give you a hard time. But it really does sound like a lot of fun. And this goes all through December, I think until the sixth, maybe until the 6th January. January 6th, I believe is the last day of it. It's really a lot of fun stuff. The, um, so the thing I can't stop thinking about this week is
a croissant, uh, specifically a chocolate croissant. I think we've talked about these before, but this is possibly the best one I've ever had. I had it last week at a place called 23 West Coffee, a new coffee shop in, in Webster Groves. And the thing that's different, you know, we talked about these chocolate croissants. They've got those little, um, what do they call them? Little nubs of chocolate, they call chocolate batons. And there's never enough in there as
far as I'm concerned. And it's apparently that's the classic way to make them, but it's not the best way to make them. In my opinion. There's a place called Lucy Anna's pastries, which I've never heard of. It's up in Alton, they supply the pastries to 23 West coffee and they make a chocolate croissant that's, you know, crescent shaped. And instead of those little nubs of chocolate, there's like a river of chocolate. I mean, it's solid
chocolate and it is so good. And what makes it doubly delicious is I think they take a little, it tasted like honey. They brushed a little honey on top. So you've got this little chewy component to this. I cut it up with a knife and fork because it was so sticky. And let me tell you, it was a really, really good croissant. So the chocolate in the center, is it gooey or you said it's solid. It's, it's kind of, it's go OK. I like we point the term on our cheese a
little of each. But anyway, uh this is again, I don't know much about Luciana's pastries. They're up in Alton. Um They have, I know a, a high tea that they're doing in February, which I've got my eye on. I just know their pastries are delicious. They've got, uh in the case they've got almond horns and uh they've got muffins and they've got quiche and, and they've got lemon tarts, oatmeal bars. I mean, I practically memorize this because I want try every one of these, but they also have a
chocolate pecan tart. That might be the best one of those I've ever had. So anyway, 23 West coffee go for the coffee indulge in the pastry. Wow. Well, I will definitely be heading there and I'm told the scones are incredible quote unquote. So all this on my list, great coffee. They don't sleep on the pastries and maybe even take a road trip to Alton too if you want to check out the pastries. Yeah, that's right. I might just go there when we get done right here. I'm ready to go.
We'll take a break and when we come back, we will talk at length with restaurateur, Ben Pemba, who has lots of surprises in store. This fall and Winter Westport Plaza is welcoming Soda Fountain Express. And 360 Westport Soda Fountain Express is a spin on a classic diner and burger joint from the fifties and is a great place to host private events, birthday parties and more. 360 Westport is a modern rooftop bar and lounge featuring
cocktails, expansive wine list and small plates. Come for a cocktail or dinner with a hand picked bottle of wine from the sommelier. Follow Westport Plaza on social media at Westport STL to stay informed about giveaways and upcoming events experience the unexpected at Westport Plaza and now back to the show as promised with us today on Archa's Ben Pamba, a familiar name to just about everyone within ear shot of this broadcast, but just in case, Ben is a three time James Beard award semifinalist.
He's the owner of Benin Hospitality Group which operates six restaurants as well as a O and co that little bit of everything culinary shop in Botanical Heights. Ben is one of the most prolific and passionate members of the local restaurant community. Welcome to the podcast, Ben. No pressure. Hey
George, thanks for having me on. Hey Cheryl. Nice to see you again. Great to see you.
Suffice to say you're a busy, busy guy right
now. Yeah, tons of stuff going on, obviously. Um As uh I've announced before, three of my restaurants including my flagship and the one I'm most known about Ellie and Olio. Uh and Nita are all gonna be closing down uh at their current location at the end of the year. Uh December 31st is gonna be the last day at their tar grave locations and they're gonna be uh relocating to the Delmar Maker District. That's that stretch uh on Delmar between Union and King's Highway
before we get over to that area on New Year's Eve on the last night. I'm assuming everything is sold out but can, can people walk just stop by and walk in to, to say farewell or is it just gonna be too crazy? I, I
actually did something uh probably counterintuitive from the, from a business perspective. Uh I decided not to have any events, uh you know, any ticketed events uh on that night and just really celebrate my staff, celebrate the time uh uh we've had there and so Nita Oyo and Elia are going to be closed um, for, I mean, I shouldn't say closed. They're gonna be, we're gonna just host a big party at Orio starting at 8 p.m. no tickets, like I said,
no reservations. Uh, the bar is gonna be open for business. We're probably gonna put some food out. But, uh, I just wanted people to actually do exactly what you just mentioned, come in, come through. Uh, have a nice time and, and reminisce and, uh, and be sure,
well, so Cheryl and I could just stop by. That's what you're saying.
Yes, exactly as you should as you should. So, you know, it actually, you know, this, this Year's New Year's Eve uh falls on a Sunday, which kind of works out really, really well. So our official service day at El Oro and hia will be that that night and then we decided that the next day we will give my step a little time off and next we celebrate them. So at 8 p.m. we'll just do a big party. Great. These are
places that have meant so much to so many people and obviously they meant so much to you. Um, you know, we're just kind of curious if, if it's bittersweet, if it's, um, you know, mixed emotions, if it feels like the right time, maybe all of the
above. Yeah, I mean, obviously, uh it's bittersweet. It's the, it's the intuitive thing to say. Uh, we've been at, at those locations for, I mean, I started working on Oyo and Elia almost 14 years ago. I mean, it took a couple of years to build. So, yeah, of course. I mean, it's, it, it's my corner. Right. You know, I have, I have Oyo and Elia and I have Nita and I have uh sh and I have a O and co and, you know, I'm proud of what uh what I was able to do over there.
So, yeah, absolutely. It, it feels, it feels uh a little sad. But, um you know, at the same time, I think that there is kind of like a natural expiration date to, to a lot of those things. And uh I'm personally very excited uh for the opportunity, you know, when you're at the same place for such a long time, you, you tend to sort of accept certain things and uh this, this is a huge opportunity to sort of bake in uh uh pour in new foundation and,
and do things that I've always wanted to do. I was just maybe lazy, maybe just uh you know, the inertia of things just uh kept me, kept me away from doing um maybe too comfortable. The opportunity now is, is, is tremendous. And I really, really like that stretch on Del Mar. I think it's, it's maybe uh the coolest
uh yet undiscovered part. Uh There's so much uh budding um energy, a creative energy with a 30 degree glass factory and with uh made STL and with other restaurant operators that are coming over there like uh Steve's hot Dogs and founding on Locust and, and uh Alpha Brewing. I tend to, I tend to look forward in everything I do. So I'm more happy, more excited than I am sad. And, but I am a little, you know, it's, it's that, it's that kind of film. I
remember Ben when you were originally talking about this, I think you were over there in a coffee shop and somebody approached you, I think it was one of the guys from third degree glass. Do I have this story? Right? And he said, hey, Ben, you know, do you wanna do a restaurant over here or how did that come about? Because as I recall the story was pretty
funny. Yeah. So, you know, I, you know, opening Delhi Divine, I was driving uh every day for the last two years on Delmar. Um And um I just, there was kind of, you know, first you just driving right through. I'm probably on the phone and slowly I started noticing some, you know, some, you know, the street looked clean and looked like uh he was loved and looked like there was a lot of energy there.
I remember driving there one night on a Friday night and they, they, they're holding this, uh you know, open house, this Friday third Friday of the month, open house and Glass Factory. And the city was at the city, the street was packed with cars, there was light out there. Uh It has just so much, so much energy.
Uh And at that point, I've always, I've already uh made the decisions to, to leave um to leave uh tar grow and was actively looking for, for either a new neighborhood or for, for a new building. And I, I looked everywhere. I mean, my, my day was packed with, you know, real estate brokers, calling me left and right. Developers uh come to Kirkwood, come to Chesterfield, come to uh cattle bill, uh stay in the city just every day. I saw so much stuff, a lot
of cool stuff. Uh But I, nothing gave me this sort of kind of um um this energy that I saw in Belmar. And then I, the story is that I was sitting at brutal loom. Uh The now uh uh closed uh coffee shop. Um And uh I looked across from bru to Lou and there was a new development, looked like a restaurant was being built and I uh ran into Doug our who's uh now uh one of my, one of my uh uh I should say partners on this is the landlord on, on a few of these buildings that I'm
going into. Uh Doug is the founder and of a third degree glass factory uh with Jim M Kelby and Doug uh told me that the, the, the restaurant they were going to do across the street is no longer a thing. And if I wanted to tour, and so I said, absolutely. And I got a tour of that restaurant. Uh But moreover, uh we just started walking up and down Delmar and he took me to Ma man, which is an architecture office uh right by third degree.
And um gave me this kind of like overview, kind of like his vision for the street. And at that point, I really had this, you know, II I mentioned this to people like I have a kind of like a similar feel like this, this I, I would this exhilaration, this uh you know, exhilarating uh vibe inside that tells me, oh my God,
this is, this is where I should be. Um There is so much opportunity and there's so much opportunity for growth as tons of buildings that, that needed, that needed uh loving, you know, um and right there and then I called my partners and I said, hey, I think I found our new neighborhood and quickly like started working on, on deals and started uh you know, spending more time there. And so what I should tell you is, and this is kind of like how crazy my mind works.
And you're the fir and I'm, you're the first people, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell this to. But before we're doing uh before we're relocating Nita, which will happen in hopefully April and uh and which probably won't happen until the summer of 24. Uh We're introducing two new concepts
to this neighborhood. And so, uh in 2024 we're gonna be opening five restaurants on Del Mar. Uh the two new concepts, uh one I briefly talked about is going to be ESCA that's um kind of a coastal Mediterranean concept that uh is gonna be in right down the corner. That, that's the first building that I saw and uh coastal Mediterranean food, uh with an emphasis on,
on charcoal grilling a very elemental, gorgeous space. And then the, that's gonna, I'm, I'm hoping that that's gonna open, uh as, as early as February, uh Valentine's Day is sort of our peak day. Uh And then once brutal loom closed down. Um It just made all the sense in the world for me to take over that space. There's several aspects you, right. You know, a it's a space in a neighborhood that I'm going to try to dominate as far as the
culinary scene goes. Uh It's a space that's fairly, you know, fully built. I mean, we're going to change uh uh tons of stuff inside. But the big thing for me here is that I uh made a commitment to my employees, especially those who have been with me for a long time that, uh, it doesn't matter if I, if it takes a six months or nine months or a year to open those restaurants, they're gonna be employed with me and that they don't have to go, uh, they don't
have to go anywhere or, or worry about that. And so sure some of them, uh, we're gonna place at the deli and some of them are gonna go to benevolent King and some of them are gonna go to bar moral.
Um, and some of them are going to be, uh, uh, help, you know, some of them are gonna help me open this new, uh restaurant ESCA, but it's still a, you know, it's, it's dozens of people, uh, literally dozens of people that I'm going to, uh, need to, uh, you know, pay for their livelihood and what better way to do this, uh, than opening a new, a new spot. So this brutal loom space. Uh, we're calling Florentine. It is named after Mike's favorite, uh neighborhood in Tel Aviv.
And it's basically a Tel Aviv inspired, uh all day breakfast and lunch spot. Uh, with a huge emphasis on shakka, those delicious, uh, eggs that are basically poached or braised in, uh, in this chunky tomato sauce. Uh, from North Africa. Uh, this uh, menu is almost 95% vegetarian, vegan, vegetarian. It's, it's, it's great. Look, fresh juices. Uh We're gonna open as early as 8 a.m. My hope is to open as early as 8 a.m.
Uh So, yeah, so it's giving me an opportunity to both, uh, give employment or continue employment, retain employment, I should say. Uh It's giving you an opportunity to uh place a lot of my furniture and a lot of my equipment in a, in a, you know, instead of in a store it actually put to use. And it's another element from this neighborhood. You know, one thing I learned from doing, from doing a neighborhood, right, from cooking up a neighborhood is um that you need
diversity of businesses and you need different price points. And so uh you want people there at different times of day, uh spending their money and their and being entertained at different levels. So, you know, ESCA is gonna be a little more pricey uh uh than yo uh obviously less pricey than Elia. And that cafe is gonna be kind of like a super approachable. Um Everybody, you know, basically a place where
everybody can, can, can come to. So this sort of daytime, night time, uh middle of the day, different price points is super important. Uh So you can attract uh a wider, a wider market.
I I think you said ESCA will be, I wanna say unique in Saint Louis in that it's got the only coal burning appliance, right? You're gonna be cooking the meats and the fishes and the vegetables over coal.
Well, the uniqueness of this concept is that we have no other surfaces. Uh I it's not like I have, you know, a, a grill in addition to, you know, a gas stove or, or, or, you know, uh it all we have there is just a charcoal oven and we're gonna try to do the entire menu out of there. So, including possibly baking bread and doing all of our desserts. And so, um yeah, that, that's, that's a unique concept for sure. I think
a lot of people are familiar with kind of more eastern Mediterranean. You know, I think of um Olio benevolent King and all of that. You've said that this is going to be Italian Riviera, French Riviera, um maybe even into
Spain. Yeah. So for sure. So the idea for S Sky is that it's loosely inspired by Western Mediterranean cuisine. So if you kind of think of the Italian and French Riviera all the way down to the Catalan coast, uh um you know, the, the uh western um coast of Spain, a little bit of Sicily, maybe a little bit of the Amalfi Coast as well. Um Just this kind of, you know, the French, call it the cuisine of the sun. And this is really what, what inspires us.
It's very elemental food. Typically. It's a simple salads. Uh a lot of olive oil, um um healthy, a lot of, a lot of acid, a lot of lemon, uh We're gonna use a lot of lemon in different uh in different ways. Um So, yeah, kind of like that vibe uh for, for ESCA um which really is kind of like the difference. Uh The New Oreo. Once we do the New Olio, um, gonna be almost the, the opposite. It's gonna be the eastern part of the Mediterranean.
So, it'd be interesting to see, uh, those two kind of exist side by side.
Then I think it's great that you're able to shut three places down, but keep everybody busy with your other restaurants and then almost immediately opening up two more in a different part of town. You know, usually when a restaurant closes, the, the employees go, why, what are we gonna do? You've got that covered completely.
Yeah. So like I said, I mean, it's, it's super ambitious. Um You know, the obvious question uh that you guys didn't ask me is why not do y and in those, in those spaces, why, why uh you know, why find new buildings for them? When I saw the first building, the ESA building uh that, you know, right there in Del Mar and Academy, it just didn't feel like it didn't feel like it didn't feel like Nixta. Uh but I really wanted to do a restaurant in there.
And so I told my partners that's what we're gonna do. We're gonna do a new restaurant. Uh When the brutal loom space became available, kind of felt a little like es but still not, still not, didn't have that vibe. And one of my managers said, let's just do all you in residence or something in here. And uh I just felt like that was gonna be super confusing and so the New Orlean Elliot buildings are gonna be
pretty impressive and ambitious projects uh architecturally and operationally. So I will, I will tell you where, where they're located, they're right by 30 degree glass factory. We're taking the, you know, the Delmar Lee building. Uh The folks at Delmar Lee, after being in business for, I think almost 40 years have decided to retire. It just again, it's, it worked. Um What's the word, uh,
serendipitously
serendipitously? That's, that's what I, that's what I was looking for. Uh, once they announced that they are going to close, I went to Doug and said, this has to be also a former uh filling station with this kind of a signature glazed white brick on the outside. But we're going to take that building and we're going to take
the building behind it. Uh And then, uh, we're also going to construct a new building and so three buildings, two existing structures, a whole new one and we're gonna, I connect all three of them to house Oro Elia. And then we're going to move our commissary kitchen from, uh, from Cherokee Street. You know, where we bake everything where we cut all of our cheese where we do a lot of, a lot of sort of, uh building blocks
of our, of our restaurants. Uh, we're going to move into that structure and so that's going to be almost uh, eight or 9000 square foot building housing, like I said, two restaurants and then a big, uh, a big production kitchen. Uh, it's gonna be very, very cool. Very interesting.
I am so glad that you were able to duplicate Olio in another spot because you look at Olio and you go, if it's ever done again, it has to be in an old service station and if you don't do it that way, it's gonna lose something. And I'll be darned if one of those wasn't available over on Delmar in that, uh, in the Delmar lease space. And I drove that stretch and I thought to myself, boy, I hope that's where Olio is gonna be. And
in fact, the constellation of the stars, I mean, I'm not a particular spiritual in that, in that regard, but that really all worked out this, the, the, the existing buildings, the audio and I, the buildings are very tough to operate and we're very restrictive and what I'm doing, uh, is, you know, I'm gonna be able to implement a lot of my ideas for you and, and stuff that I wasn't able to do it. It's gonna be cool. Really, really cool. Like some of our planning at least is very,
is very cool. Will
any of the menus change? And Olio or you've got definitely certain things you do at each one and this will give you an opportunity to change that a little bit if you want to. Yeah,
for sure. So, Oreo's menu is probably the most, uh, will be, I mean, we'll keep all of our classics and all of, you know, our customers favorites. But, um, what we couldn't do with Oreo for real is serve hot food. You know, that just didn't work. Uh, we didn't have a, like a hot kitchen and so the new Oreo kitchen will have, um, a grill where we are gonna be able to grill meats
and do some, some more substantial food. Uh In addition to the big hummus and all the, all the things we already do, uh the menu, uh the format will probably stay the same, but we were working on some really, really neat ideas as far as uh the experience itself. And uh um you know, when I have some more concrete stuff, I'll share it. But
uh again, it's about 66 to 7 months away. So, um for now just to suffice to say that things are gonna stay the same, uh the next a menu will largely stay the same except that we're going to introduce uh what I try to do at the existing location. I'm going to introduce Barley Mon, which always was kind of like a more fun, approachable, cheaper version of, of Nita.
Uh And uh this is going to be kind of like a counter inside of Nita itself that's gonna serve uh ceviche and, and to start and, you know, uh as the name suggest things that are cooked in lemon if you will uh cocktails and things like that. Uh the fish cocktails, of course, the seafood cocktails. And so um so yes, n itself will also have kind of a dual personality one. It's a little more uh find an approachable and then a kind of a more fun, you know, um formal dining room
sounds like we're up to 5.5 restaurants banner, you gotta keep going, You got next to which sounds like with, with bar la me, it's like a restaurant and a half there, right? It
is, it actually is going to be a restaurant and a half. There's like a few other elements that I'm gonna keep as a surprise. But yeah, it's, it's Nita is definitely a restaurant in the hair that, that space is super cool. This entire development with Alpha Brewing and, and Steve's hot dog and uh Fountain on Locust is
gonna be really, really neat. We're gonna have some uh shareable space kind of like a little uh green area in the middle of the whole development for people to just come and hang and it's gonna be, it's gonna be fun.
My understanding is that the actual like production side is a key component of that. Like people will be able to see certain elements of things be made and that's part of the experience.
Yeah, that's true. So the whole script, the idea of makers really kind of fits with my philosophy. I've always been a big fan of what I call the element of the make. Uh, where you can actually see. This is why I have a lot of my kitchen are out up front. I mean, at bar more or you could just visibly see it, uh people making stuff. And so, uh that entire philosophy resonated with me and in keeping with what I do. So at Makers local, you're gonna be able to see
uh the big steel at also brewing. Uh And at nar you're gonna be able to see people making uh the tortillas right there in front of you. So, you know, those are the things that in the past people were trying to hide. And for me that's part of the theater of dining, uh you just see how things are made and
it's part of the show, right? Um The biggest uh example of that, that I have at my existing restaurant is with Joseph, our gardener, you know, having all these, you know, potting soil and all of these gardening tools and all of these things right up at the entrance of the restaurants. And, um, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's always changing. It's part of the, it's part of the experience. So
I'm just amazed as I'm thinking about it, you know, in seven or eight months, we're gonna have a part of town that doesn't really have a lot of restaurants. It's gonna have like, I don't know, I lost count. It's eight or nine restaurants. It's that stretch of Delmar that it's just gonna all of a sudden come alive. There'll be synergy right off the bat because these places are basically opening up at the same
time a year from now, that stretch of Delmar will be dramatically and drastically different.
We just love us some Ben Barba. So thank you so much for joining us on this podcast today. Thanks
George. Thanks Cheryl.
So that brings us to what's often our favorite part of the show, our micro rant and this week's rant concerns odd numbered appetizers. I'm gonna set you up for this. You've been, I mean, anyone familiar with, with architecture or, or spatial design knows that even numbers are symmetrical but odd numbers are more interesting. That's why you always see a chef, but three scallops on a plate or five shrimp on a plate, odd numbers are better, which is fine unless there are
four or six people dining at the table. And all of a sudden you have to do some serious, you know, knife work or some serious uh appetizer subdivision, right? And I always thought, wouldn't it be easier as we experienced the other night to be offered a little bit extra, you know, an extra item for a nominal price if there's three to the order and there's four at the table, why don't you just add on the fourth? And this happened to us with a b
cheek empanada at idle wolf. Remember there's three to the order there and there were four of us and we were darn glad to each one of us have one. Well, God knows you, you can't be splitting one of those like each person needs their. It was perfect. Everybody got one. And I thought, you know, this is something that shows the customer that the server is paying attention. It's this subtle detail. It's a touch of hospitality. It's a great Upsell and that's one that nobody's gonna refuse.
Everybody will opt into that extra morsel. So let's pay attention restaurant folks when we do our appetizers and, and always make sure that everybody gets a taste. Sure. That's it. This week, folks for Arch Eats, best dishes and might I say Happy New Year. There are links in the show notes to all the places we talked about today. We encourage you to follow Arch Eats and share us with your friends and remember that we put
out a new episode every other week. You can also subscribe to our newsletters at STL mag slash newsletters or follow us on Instagram at Saint Louis mag or follow me at George Mahe.