Welcome to the OPM podcast. OPM is the childhood body for the project profession. My name is Emma divita and I'm the editor of project apm's quarterly journal and your host in the hot seat. Today with me Zany hair sign, the project management brains behind the fabulously successful, Commonwealth Games and Birmingham. This summer. The games were filled with color and energy, and were billed as the most sustainable, and
diverse games ever. But what was it like to pull off this huge undertaking and will the city of Birmingham, be able to Capitalize on its Legacy. Annie, welcome. I'm delighted to have you here today. Brilliant. Thank you. I'm a delighted to be, it's great to be online with you before we get into the games, I thought it'd be easier. If you could give us a bit of background on your career and how you actually got into project management if you don't
mind. Yes, certainly. So I originally studied electrical engineering at the University of Cambridge and and as part of that, I spotted a couple of guys that were working in the Army on a sponsor Arrangement, which look quite appealing getting involved with. So combining the engineering with sports and eventually training. So I was lucky enough to get an army cadetship, which then meant I spent six years with the re me in the British Army and sort of traveling the world so to speak.
But on a number of number of different engagements and then, I was, I did that for six years and at the end of that, really sort of thought. Okay, what do I want to go to now and look to combining two? Technology management consultancy with project management, and I ended up with a small consultancy that did exactly that based in Guildford. And that was really the introduction to project management for me. From there I stayed in Guilford or with that company for nearly 15 years.
We were taken over as part of that, moved back to Cambridge more into sort of consultancy and operations. And then from there sort of took a sideways step into sports. Project management. And from there eventually ended up in Birmingham. Clothes, keep what you enjoy about project management. What is it that kind of engages
you about it? I think for me it's I really enjoy having that oversight from sort of start to finish or even from the initial concept talking to a client understanding what they want to do and then putting a project together and seeing it through or leading it through to completion that.
That for me, the entirety of that visibility is is fundamental, but at the same time I've been Been involved in so many different projects, different sectors, different industry Industries. And that variety is absolutely fascinating and I could never have imagined when I left the army that I would have been involved in the different projects. I have over the last 20 years. Okay? So, and so, you're well, not your current role. We'll talk about that later, but
your role at Birmingham games. How did you get involved with that and why did you want that particular role? So, prior to the game. So, in late 2019, I'd spent a couple of years with British rowing looking after their technology projects. I saw the opportunity and Birmingham, come up as director of program, management and
integrated planning. And I simply put an application in on spec, I had I had been involved in a number of games, so probably the most significant one obviously being London. I've been involved in hockey and Technical officiating there. And so my interest and passion for these large multi-sport games was just kind of was growing with each and every
game. So I've been to, I've been with Glasgow Commonwealth Games there, I've been out the Invictus games in Sydney and 2018 so the opportunity to combine my career which essentially is how I saw it with my passion was something that I really I really couldn't miss and so as I say I put the application in and then very quickly I found myself in Birmingham and late, twenty twenty nineteen in the role as director taking over the program management for the organizing committee.
Okay? So in that role, what were your what did you set out to achieve and looking back, do you feel as though you did achieve them? So I think it initially this was this was a big step into program management, but at the same time, I was very passionate about being involved in the games and a part of that was almost like this games was going on. I wanted to be a part of it.
I want to be able to contribute to it and to bring my corporate skills and sort of the experience from the different environments that I've worked in. I really felt very passionate about being able to do that with with the team there in Birmingham. And the role was, it was not only about sort of leading program management within the organizing committee, which starts out of it as a very small organization.
So, when I joined, there are probably about 80 or 90 people through to when we deliver the games close to 2,000. So it is a very changing organization. You have to keep a pace with that, but in parallel to it, it's also working with all the partners, all the stakeholders that are involved in the games and as, as you, Well imagine there are many people that are involved and even more people
that want to be involved. So had a key role in sort of that stakeholder management as well and tracking the development, the progress of a number of different programs towards delivery earlier this year. And I think Looking Back Now end of July was little bit frantic, but by the end, well by the 10th of August, when we finished the games, It was absolutely incredible. What happened in Birmingham and I don't think we could have
helped have asked for anymore. We had hoped and in my mind, it, I thought it would be great to create what we did in London and recreate that in Birmingham. And I do genuinely think that we achieve that ten years on almost to the day, which is absolutely incredible. What are you most proud of?
I simply just being a part of it, I think it it all comes together against time and I spent two and a half years planning thinking working through various different scenarios, working with the team's thinking about some of the big risks as part of program management. What if this happens? What if that happens? It was fair to say that some of those risks did materialize but actually to come out the other side and then feel the we had covered all of those risks and a It didn't materialize.
And we've got appropriate plans mitigation in place to deal with them, should they have a risk? And that was a real sense. Sense of achievement for me. Okay? Me it's inevitable, I'm going to ask you what those risks were low and also what were the biggest challenges that you faced? And how did you overcome them?
Well to share a little secret on the inside when I arrived in December, 2019, we had quite a long risk register already and there was one on there that said how to deal with the event of a pandemic. And I remember looking at that and going okay, well, well, we're, you know, we're just park that this was in December, 2019. It's fair to say that by February 20 20, I was revisiting the risk by just giving out exactly what had been written. Probably two years earlier.
In a very generic kind of way. And then obviously 3 March that became very real and I remember the day vividly because we we said, we would do a test with the organizing committee around, how we would handle working at home to. We did that on the 16th of March, and we never went back into the office until the pandemic was over. So it was a real really quick learning curve and a quick introduction to very rapid rapid risk. Judgment with regards to that. So that was, that was the
biggest impact on the program. And needless to say that roll through all the way until the games, despite the fact that we were back in the office, we were working. But it was the effect on our suppliers on our volunteers on the medical team. It was just so wide wide spread that we could never let go of what's the impact of covid.
And it's fair to say that was not something that was on my radar in, in December, 2019, when I took the job, I can't help but think that you're training in the military and as an officer you must have drawn on that for this particular scenario. Am I correct in thinking that Yes. Hugely I think the Army and certainly the training. I did it. Sometimes he's very good at kind of putting you in stressful situations and throwing a lot of things at you.
And so that was, it's that sort of Stress Management crisis Management in that kind of environment was a great training. And I think sort of building on that you just then become or you build into your skill set, the ability to prioritize things and they were What actually is dealing with? And the Army has a particular approach to leadership probably based on the idea of servant leadership how much does that influence your leadership style?
Very much. So I remember, again, the mozzarella salad was served to lie and that was the way that we were, we were trained and sort of all the exercises we did there. And I think that certainly is a part of my leadership style in terms of really working really closely with the team, almost sort of pulling up alongside them understanding, what their challenges are, what their issues are, and then helping them to work through those
challenges. I think one of the impressive things about the games that was its diversity in sustainability. Could you tell us a bit more about that? And it, and whether that was informed, by the, particularly short amount of planning time. You had more Birmingham had for the games because it did step in for Durbin. So you had less time than usual. Yeah, I know that was a really
interesting challenge. So the read set out, I think we had, they had the team had four and a half years from when it was awarded, which has, as you rightly say, is much shorter than we would normally normally plan for and then on top of that. So we're playing a little bit of catch-up but on top of that we then set some really ambitious sustainability and diversity targets and also sort of thinking about what does that mean for Birmingham.
And I think burning was very unique in the makeup. Of the city and the region that we had to, we had to build on that. And so that's what the games had to be about. It had to be the games for
everyone. And so, as a part of that, we had, we set some really ambitious, strategic objectives, which it is fair to say, through covid and through working remotely, then became really challenging because that changed the whole Dynamics around how we're preparing for the games and how ultimately, we're going to deliver the games.
But I'm delighted to say that that Again looking back we achieve those objectives and we really did ensure that Birmingham was the games for everyone and that everybody can be involved and we hit those sustainability and those diversity diversity targets. Did you use a particular program management approach to the Commonwealth Games?
I would say a very typically, it was probably a waterfall program management approach, but at the same time as we get close to the games, the whole, the whole dynamic of planning detail, planning, and procurement, kind of changes as we move into our Readiness and our operational phases. And as a part of that, when you're going through that, everything becomes a lot more agile. And we have to the time lines, become a lot, a lot tighter, so
we're turning around. And turning around deliverables, turning around actions a lot quicker. So I think it's fair to say. We see that transition certainly from a maybe a very standard waterfall approach through to a much more agile way of working. Really curious to find out what your Lessons Learned are from the project. Not only in your kind of work capacity, but also personally,
what did you take from it? And what you bring to your current role, I think the first thing for me in this this just goes back to the really complex sort of environment. The complex number of stakeholders that were involved is making sure that everybody understands their roles and
responsibilities. And in particular in a, we were coming into a city where there's established relationships established, established partners, and we will leave the city as the organizing committee with those Partners as well. And they've got very established ways of working and it's almost unpicking those and making sure that That everybody understands. What does this mean during games time?
And I think if I had my time again, I would have spent more time up front or when I arrived really unpicking that in more detail and making sure that everybody understood what their responsibilities would become games time.
I think the other thing for me and again this is part of a complex project is the level of governance and assurance that that we experienced was huge and I think it's that Asshole for large large projects and large programs, but you have to be really smart around how you manage that governance and that surance and the audits the internal external audits the the project reviews, everything that is being thrown at you. So that so that actually, you put together a shed a schedule
of of what that governance. Looks like what those reviews look like, so that you're not duplicating, you're not burdening. The teams with asks in triplicate Month in month out, and that we had to be really smart about that around how we were reporting, and then also how we were scheduling those, those reviews. If you got any practical tips around those two things that you'd pass on to other program leaders out there. Practical tips, I would suggest it's around roles and
responsibilities. You have to get people around the table early and simply get things mapped out. Again, start with an Excel spreadsheet or whatever that looks like and start mapping it out with a raci matrix, best way to start those discussions and then obviously that leads on to more detailed discussions with regards to the governance. We what we tried to do was almost get a year's plan ahead in terms of just what's the governance?
What meetings, what board meetings were audits, what other maybe government, reviews are taking place so building a year, ahead, calendar, and then sequencing the governance. So that we're not having to duplicate reporting in different forms. So, actually, if we need approval, or if we need decisions, made that we can quickly work up through those governance chains. Okay, brilliant. And I want to ask if he what you enjoyed most about working on Boeing.
Did you get to see any of the sporting action? Did you get seals, you'll spawn on stage, I did there. I think there are so many favorite moments and I was very lucky. And and certainly with my hockey background, the CEO. Ian Reed was very generous in suggesting that maybe I attended a few of the hockey sections and did some hosting. So I was very lucky I saw Both of the hockey finals and then also similarly in a, in a hosting role I was at the opening and closing ceremonies.
So whilst we didn't know about Ossie, we knew that something very exciting was coming and to see that materialized than that, that be delivered in the way that it was just fantastic. It was just incredible. Could you give us an insight into what it was like to be in Birmingham during those weeks? Because yeah, I watch it on TV and there seems to be such a buzz around it so much energy, so much color. What was it like to be in the city during that time?
And actually, let's talk about Legacy. How can Birmingham capitalize on on the games? Yeah, I'll talk about the excitement building. It was just incredible. Obviously, I was in the city every day and we had a daily countdown and we saw the City coming to life. So all of the all of the are all of the graphics went up on some of the buildings. The, the building Centenary Square was going up the clip that the game's clock which was counting down was attracting
attention as well. And so it was just incredible seeing all of these things activate as the Queen's baton relay came into the city. That was another opportunity for the city to really come together and crowds to start building. But then actually during Names. Absolutely phenomenal. We had no idea what was going to happen in the city center. I'd love to say that we did, but when the ball was brought into Centenary Square again, somewhat of a surprise to me.
But could you explain what the Bull is for some listeners who? Perhaps didn't see it? Sorry, so there, the ball which was used in the opening ceremony, which was one of the is, obviously the key symbols of Birmingham, the Birmingham Bull and this Huge. I think it was about 10 meter, high bull been constructed and used in the opening ceremony and and was a key part of it. We naively thought or I naively thought that might be the end of the bull at least for a few
days. We're going to have a little bit of a rest perhaps, but what actually happened was overnight after the opening ceremony, the bull was moved and there are there are videos sharing the ball driving down through the streets of Birmingham into the city center. About 3:00 in the morning and then so 6:00 for the morning when I walk through the square it was just incredible to see it
there. And I'd like to think that I was probably one of the first people to see it but people then came into the city centre in their thousands to see the ball and to see the live site and to visit the shop. But they were in the city centre of Birmingham. What did the game Steve Birmingham the city and actually the region of West Midlands I think, I mean, a huge, a huge amount. We talked about the Legacy for a number of years and and looked at various different
opportunities. So if we look at the different programs, I mean not only have we refurbished Alexander Stadium, which is now a well recognized International Athletics venue for future meets. We've also got a brand new Olympic swimming pool in a
residential area in sand. Well, the throne Paul's being, In somebody's absolutely incredible and that in its legacy mode will be a full Suite of fitness center available to the public of Sandwell and the local community, with various programs running to really promote health and well-being in that region with in Birmingham. And that's just, that's a couple
of the capital projects. But in addition to that, there are various Legacy programs that are still running around engaging youth, engaging schools making sure that they understand what the common Keynes was all about but then taking that forward and taking that Legacy forward. So making sure that they understand the benefits of health and well-being, but they are also going to access ability to new skills. They've got access to new jobs.
So there's been a real focus on how do we really engage the youth community and create opportunities for them? Whether they be in sport or whether they be in in jobs and skills and really leaving those skills with them. And that, that not only sort of that, Not only was organized by the organizing committee, but all the contractors that were involved in the games had various programs that were running to really encourage and embellish that promotion of
skills and jobs. Okay. Thanks, you talk very much about the specifics of the Legacy. I'm wondering at a kind of Vega level, just around the perception of Birmingham as a city, both nationally and and internationally has has the game's changed. That has it given more confidence to the West Midlands to project itself in a different way?
Definitely. Yes, I think without question Birmingham has transformed and and talking to contacts, in Birmingham, city council, they are so proud of what's happened in terms of their. They would always say that Birmingham was probably quite shy.
We knew that they knew that Birmingham had had things to be proud of, but it's had this opportunity to speak to the nation, to speak to the world, to Showcase everything that's going on. And and now very much the light is Is shining on Birmingham and in addition to that, we there's been sort of business and tourism programs running as well as part of the games. So, looking at, how do we bring
more businesses into Birmingham? How do we promote, what's going on in Birmingham to International businesses as well? So that putting Birmingham on the back has been absolutely fundamental part of the games and I really do think that that we've taken significant strides forward in terms of doing that. But what's made Birmingham unique? As a host of Commonwealth Games, and what do you think could be remembered for? I think burning this certain unique in terms of the diversity
of the city and the region. And this was something that Sony Commonwealth Games Federation picked up on when Birmingham was being appointed. Because believe it or not, there are probably representatives of the whole Commonwealth in Birmingham, representative communities and making those links. And fostering it has been a real sort of pillar that we've been able to build on and really sort of Help people to talk about the Commonwealth stories.
Talk about the history of the Commonwealth but also really look forward around. How do we build on that diversity and include all of those communities in everything that's going on in Birmingham in the future? It's clear, you've got a strong interest in sports, the road for Cambridge. In you've been involved in hockey what it sounds like for most of your life but I'd like to ask you what has sport taught to you about working in teams.
What have you brought from that world into the world of program management? I think, for me and I've probably been involved in team sports in the main through hockey and and Rowing. And I also did swimming but that's maybe not team sports so much.
But just working in that environment, particularly in rowing where when you were in an 8, if you don't get things in sync with the rest of the crew, the boats going to go nowhere and and it really is fundamental and that those kind of lessons, but also then more, cerebrally how do you engage Age with the team. How do you work as a team? How do you bring the best of a team to an event to a competition? And that equally applies in the
workplace. So looking at the team that I had and again, everybody that was involved in games, probably had some interest in sport, maybe not quite as much as me. But really, you can really use that and build the team work in a similar way and we had a number of sessions as part of the organizing committee sort of looking at Team Dynamics, looking at leadership. How do we bring that bring that to the fore and what are the lessons learnt from sport? At Association for project management.
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Allah, ask you Annie. If you have any practical tips or pieces of advice, you've got the other project managers could use in leading a team on managing a team. What's worked for you particularly well, That's that's a good question. I think in terms of sort of leading the team is is being present, being engaging being available to your team. You have to remember that all your team members will be a different stages of their journey of their of their experience in project
management. And this kind of then goes back to getting to know your team getting to know them in the workplace but also socially and understanding what makes them tick. How do you get them involved? How do you help them? How do you help them progress?
Because if the team is working together, the project will just will work so much so much easy, more easily and it is, it's around building, that's Energy. Building the energy in the team that actually makes going to work to work on your project fun and enjoyable and and people don't notice what they're doing and I, you know, I'm in the game's world. It's very easy because people are very passionate.
About delivering the games but it's then sort of taking though transferring that into another environment and thinking okay. How do we embolden the team to really work together and, and really sort of synchronize and go forward?
I'm just wondering what the flip side is that, you know, when you're dealing with a team, there's inevitably conflict either within the team or with outside, stakeholders, have you learned anything over the years that has proved helpful in dealing with conflict in the right way and getting everyone on board together? Yeah, absolutely time and time again, no project will be without this and I think it is very easy to put your head in the sand and hope it goes away.
But what you have that you have to be able to do is sit down and have a conversation, understand what? The conflict is, what is the issue and then work with the individuals or work with the team, and that might mean a number of different conversations but really sort of making sure that people can then start. Pulling in the same direction and sometimes that ultimately does mean that you have to have some pretty difficult
conversations as well. But again, it's it's fundamental to not shy away from those and Tackle them as early as possible, because if you let them sit, the problem will only get bigger. The conflict will only grow. So you have to you have to nip them in the bud early. And any advice on handling difficult conversations. Again, it's don't be afraid of having the difficult conversation. I've tried various techniques. Some of work, some some haven't, what's worked?
It's easier said than done, right? I mean, it's one of the hardest aspects of being a manager or a leader. But what have you found works? I think the key is that you have to be upfront and and I would say don't beat around the bush but To getting getting the nuts and bolts of where you want to go or what what needs to be said. So that people understand clearly what the situation is. And if there are decisions to be made, they know what the landscape is and they can make
an informed decision. It is very easy to sort of hide behind and and try and avoid using various words or putting things in black and white and actually put it in black-and-white early and people going to understand, Where they where they stand? Okay, that's great. He recently left your role at Birmingham which is always the plan. Can you tell us a bit about the role? You've just taken on what your
responsibilities are? What you think, the biggest challenges will be and what you take from the Boeing and games to this new role. Yeah, absolutely. So I finished in Birmingham at the end of September, so that was essentially the end of that games contract. I'm now working for the Commonwealth Games Federation, which is the overseeing body for all Commonwealth Games and that includes the youth games, which has been rescheduled to next
year. So, he's games in Trinidad and Tobago in 2023. I'm the Project Lead for the Commonwealth Games, Federation and working with The new organizing committee, which is it, which is located in Trinidad and Tobago. So, the immediate challenge is, how do I work with a team that is few thousand miles away? And a few hours time difference, not having that sort of daily eyes on perspective, around progress and and that will be one of the biggest challenges over the next eight months as we
prepare for that. Okay, pretty. And it just leads me to ask you for any career lessons that you've thought about looking over the, your career, so far that you would perhaps pass on to project managers, starting out. Now, any secrets to your success that you wished, you'd look new when you are first starting out. Again, a good question, I would suggest.
So, When I, when I was younger, I was naturally quite shy, and I think that that still stays with me, and I have to proactively encourage myself to speak up to get my voice, heard to take the opportunity to present. And I think it's again it's very easy to sit in the background to be silent. If you want to be noticed, if you want to progress, you have to speak up. You have to be heard.
And that is maybe one of the key lessons to my Of and I like the one that again certainly off the back of Birmingham is very close to mind at the moment is just not to take things too seriously and enjoy it and relax a little bit. It's very easy in. In project management to get tied up with reviews and governance and I talked about that earlier but actually just relax a little bit and enjoy it and enjoy the opportunity that you have with the project.
And my final, final question I promise is you're one of a kind A few female leaders within program management within the profession is, is that something that is impacted on your career? And do you have any advice to women, younger, sort of female professionals, who are planning their career or early on in their career and you know, would appreciate some advice around
this. I think it's whether it's impacted on me, but I've worked through a number of areas and number of sectors so started off in engineering and then electrical engineering which was very male dominant then worked in the Army where the statistics were probably similar in terms of the representation of women and then really sort of going
into a technology space. So I've spent a lot of time working in a male-dominated environment and I'd like to think that those environments have Prove significantly over the last 25 years and the balance has changed, but in terms of some aspiring for leadership positions.
Again, it goes back to what I said earlier, around needing to speak up needing to be heard and establishing good relationships across the teams that you're working with, and making sure that people recognize you in the value that you're bringing this to the team now. It would be my key word of advice is just make sure that you are heard and playing playing the role that you deserve to be playing within the teams that you're working in but brilliant way to wrap up our
conversation. That's some really thoughtful. Excellent advice thank you. And it just leaves me to say thanks again for your time it's been brilliant to get a behind-the-scenes, kind of view of something, such a public event and just leaves me to say. Thank you and good luck in your new role. Brilliant. Thank you very much. Really enjoyed it and I thank you. Thanks again, Tony for joining us and to you for listening to this episode of the APM podcast.
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