Welcome to the APM Podcast. AM is the chartered body for the project profession. My name is Emma De Vita and I'm the editor of Project APM's Quarterly Journal and your host in this podcast. I'm speaking to three women about menopause in the workplace, specifically working in projects with me a 2 project professionals, Rachel Jackson, a lead planet, Anglo American, and Joe Roberts, Head of Strategy at the Department for Transport's. Also joining us is Ali Dilkes, a
nurse specialising in menopause. We'll be sharing experiences and advice for everyone who wants to find out how to best deal with being menopausal and how to best support a colleague who might be experiencing this. Dalton 2023 issue of APM's Project Journal also covers this topic, so please do make sure you grab a copy. Welcome everyone.
Thanks for joining me. Why don't we begin with everyone giving a brief introduction about what they do, the work they do, and their interest or experience in the menopause. So, Ali, let's begin with you. So my name's Ali Dokes and I've been a nurse for 38 years. Most of my career husband and Women's Health. I used to be a midwife and I've had a special interest in the menopause for the past 15 years since my own menopause. I'm gonna subscriber.
I'm a member of British Menopause Society and I'm British Menopause Society accredited specialists and I have my own private menopause clinic based in Leicester and also in Ely and Cambridgeshire where offer women consultations to discuss their own menopause journey. Explain about menopause, then come up with a plan and I see moment either face to face my clinics or do virtual consultations as well. My interest in the menopause started when I was 40. Actually I was working.
Was in Advanced Nurse Practitioner in a busy GP surgery. I was recently divorced and I had an emergency hysterectomy and nobody ever mentioned menopausal HRT to me. I went more or less straight back to work because I couldn't afford to have any time off work and I had three teenage children and I just suddenly started struggling doing a job that I've been doing for about 9 years. I had no memory, I couldn't concentrate, I lost all my confidence. I felt really anxious.
I couldn't remember simple jokes that I've been describing for several years and if I could have afforded to, I would have given up my job and changed. But a lower paid job. But as a single parent I had to keep working. And the surgery that I was working in had three male GPS, so most of the women with health problems tended to come to me. And I saw a bit of a theme really.
There was lots of women around my age or older, they were complaining of similar things because I haven't had any hot flushes so I hadn't really hadn't crossed my mind it. Could be the menopause but. Then we're going to think, well, there must be something a bit more to this. So I did a little bit of research, went to see my GP and said I think it might be menopausal and kind of have some HRT which she prescribed for me straight away.
And within weeks I felt better. You know, I've got my memory back, I've got my confidence back and I could function again. So that's really where my interest in the menopause came from, because I realised. Far too many women were suffering in silence, so I joined fishermen across the city and then eventually I settled my my own clinic about five years ago. Joe, do you want first bit about yourself and your work and your interests or experience in this subject? I'm Joe Roberts.
So I'm currently head of strategy at Department for Transport. I've been working in project management for the last 18 or so years of my life. My interest in perimenopause kind of happened during the pandemic when one period stopped altogether. I was 39 and I was just really confused and just thought I put it down initially. So not having any female contact us. I live with my husband and my son and after about 8 months they started to come back.
But they came back even more painful than they've ever been before and I just knew something wasn't quite right. I began taking this. My symptoms, I had friends say. I think it's the menopause, but you're way too young. Only 39 and I was like age isn't anything to do with it. I think it's you know happening and it was only just after 10:40 that I managed to get access to HRT. I'm still kind of trying to trying lots of things out, tweaking because I'm not the person that I used to be.
But when when it's right for the month or so that it's all the stars are lying, I feel like 25 year old Joe again, not achy, creepy, brain fog, everything. So I'm particularly keen to kind of really emphasise any problems I come across because I figure if I'm if I'm having difficulty with menopause then it's. Highly likely that my peers are too. Um, so I'm not afraid to talk about it at work.
Even with male colleagues, they all know that I'm perimenopausal and get really hot and get really forgetful. Because I think that we need to be having these conversations. People need to know about it. Everyone is affected, whether you are male or identify as female, because you have a woman in your life and Rachel. I'm Rachel Jackson. I work in mining at the moment. I've been working in project management for over 20 odd years now. In my late 30s, I was diagnosed with cancer and I had
chemotherapy. And then I went very rapidly into the menopause and I I really suffered a sense of identity crisis. First you've got cancer and lose your hair and all that, and then you go out of that and you're in the menopause much longer than expected. And symptom wise I, you know, memory loss, lack of concentration, poor sleep. I was very fortunate because I was already in the medical system to get a lot of help HRT
wise. But I did find in work partly because I was having an identity crisis, it was difficult for me to talk about in a very male dominated environment. And what I also found quite frustrating was to hear people say, oh we're losing women left, right and centre, particularly the senior women. And yet there's not really much done at this moment in time, in my opinion, to to open up the conversation, certainly at the senior.
Levels to say, well actually most of the women at that level will be of a of a menopausal age and they've got a challenge of all of these symptoms. So sort of having experienced it myself, got quite passionate on the subject. Well, hopefully this podcast will go some way into kind of enlightening people and spreading the word about how to
support women. So I think it would be useful for listeners if we could go back to basics and Get the facts about the menopause and what it actually means and what its symptoms are. So Ali, if you could briefly explain what what happens to you in the menopause? So the money, of course it is an option. It will happen to some women at some point in their lives.
The average age of the menopause is 51, and life expectancy for women in the UK is 83. So women potentially spend a third of their lives postmenopausal. And menopause is when you've gone 12 whole months without a period. So you actually have a menopause day. You go 12 months without a period and that's your menopause. You wake up the following day and your post menopausal.
But there's a time leading up to the menopause called the perimenopause, and that's when the hormones start fluctuating and that's when the symptoms begin. And that's on average somewhere in your early 40s. Symptoms can last anything from several months to several
decades and the average. And the symptoms is 7 years, But one in 100 women will go through the menopause under the age of 41. In 1000, women will go through the menopause under the age of 30, and one in 10,000 women will go through the menopause under the age of 20. And then of course, there's other reasons why women have the menopause. There's a chemical menopause if you have chemotherapy or radiotherapy or drugs to stop your periods for different medical reasons.
And of course, there's the surgical menopause. When you have your ovaries removed, typically what symptoms surround it? The Simpsons. I mean, there are 64 different menopausal symptoms and every woman's menopause journey is so different. Some women have all 64. I think I've met women that have had 65 symptoms and some women don't have any. So everybody is just so different. And because hormones are fluctuating during the perimenopause, symptoms come and go as well.
So I think women often think, oh, I'll get better or oh, it's gone away now, so I'm OK. I'm sorry. I've got over it. Ohh. You forget because of poor memory, you actually forget about the symptoms. So when you finally do go to see your GP and talk about it, yeah, just forget half of the symptoms that you had anyway. Things like brain fog, poor memory, lack of concentration. Low self esteem, mood swings, low mood, tearfulness, anxiety, dry eyes isn't really common.
Menopausal symptoms, Tinnitus, heart palpitations, joint pain, dry skin, dry hair, vagina, dryness and saunas, lack of libido. The list is endless, really. Why do you think this sudden interest in the menopause? Especially talking about it at work and how it affects working women. Women's Health has always been the sort of the Cinderella subject in medicine anyway.
It's always been something that's been very overlooked and women often just get on with it because they're so busy putting everybody else in their family at a higher priority than their own health, so they often ignore the symptoms as well. But I think the big difference, which is, is that the average age of retirement is being pushed back. Women are working potentially until they're six or seven before they get their pension. So women are potentially working
for 17 years post menopause. Cost of living is really going up. So lots of families do have to have everybody in the household working because they can't afford to not work or to work. Part side, a lot of women have elderly parents look after because they're living longer. Children may go to university but can't afford to buy houses, so they come back and they're in the household.
So just the whole cost of living and family dynamics are really changing and women are doing all these things and struggling with menopausal symptoms as well. What do you think has changed over the past five or ten years? Even to me, we can have open conversations about this at work and don't have to suffer in silence, which is what I think lots of women did before, certainly, you know, my mum's generation. Does anyone want to give their view on that, Joe?
Yeah, so go back to the pandemic and remember the lives that we lived where we're all, you know, petrified of our own shadows, Didn't want to leave the house. Now that we've come out of that and we are in the new normal or whatever, I think there's a large generation of people my age, you know, early 40s now saying I don't care. I'm going to live my life how I want to live it. And I'm going to tell people that I'm suffering. I'm going to be honest about why
I'm off sick this day. I was off sick on Friday. I had the worst period pain in the world. It was actually like labour pains. It was that bad. I I felt so nauseous and I was just like. Sorry, I'm not going to be able to do anything today, so see you next. Week. And I don't think I'd ever been able to do that before. I'd just been like, ohh, I'd just feeling got flu or I've got a tummy bug or something. But now, you know it, it affects me not just physically but
mentally. There's so much that is impacted by the perimenopause, which is what I'm going through at the moment, you know, got the brain fog. I can never remember people's names now. I used to be so good with names and faces and now I'm just like, hi, how are you? And that just makes me feel quite sad sometimes. I have to write everything down. Absolutely everything. Down, you know, so work wise,
you know everything. I go through so many notebooks and highlighting and what people are saying to me. So I I don't kind of miss things and I'm not missing out on delivery or something because I just have to remember everything, even the doctor's appointment. I literally sit there and I take pages of notes into my doctor and she's just like, Oh my goodness me, because I know I forget. And you need to know all of
these different things. What ways has it affected your project work, and how have you found workarounds? And how do you manage your situations so that you can get what you want, which might be a day at home or more flexible working? I I'm pretty honest as a person. I'm, I'm terrible at lying. So when I first sat down with my my boss, he was talking about something and I went, don't worry, no risk of another child with me. I'm going through the perimenopause.
And he just looked absolutely aghast and I went, you know, and this is how it affects me. And I think he just was genuinely really interested to understand how he could support me, but also quite flabbergasted. He's incredibly supportive. I've kind of had mentioned in the intro of kind of going through different iterations of HRT and how that affects me or disinfects me and means I'm off sick for whatever reason. Them I had what I thought was a
kidney infection. Earlier in the year and it wasn't it was actually vaginal atrophy. And I need pessaries now because I've always literally cannot function. I was in bed for three weeks. Yeah. So you'll have to be really honest now about these things. Well, I don't have to be a part. I am because I think that I owe it to myself and to people that are coming behind me to know that actually it's OK to have women's problems and know that it does really hurt and
sometimes you feel terrible. And actually if it was a man having these kind of pains they they wouldn't be at work like being in an ambulance on the way to hospital, so and and reasonable. I've had to kind of say when we have the really great big heat earlier in the year and last year when it was just so I was like there's no way I can come into the office at all. I'm sorry, you're not getting me
into the office. As government we have to be in I think 40% of our time, but they're just like that's totally fine. It's it's unreasonable to ask anyone to do that. You know, it's it's basics like that. But also we're talking about how we organise and how I can actually do my job. A lot of it is writing everything down. Chatting with people in the round conversations that we're having, a lot of my work at the moment is around influencing
people's government. So I'm definitely using my superior skills of emotional intelligence and kind of working through what people are thinking, what they want and and all of that. But equally following up with facts and having to kind of feel like I'm working doubly hard, double check the actual facts of a situation, how many tonnes of material we're using or something like that. Have to work really, really hard to make sure I have that. OK, Rachel. I mean, your situation is a bit
different. How did going through this more sudden menopause affect your work and how you're working it? How did you manage that at work? How was it for you? And also once I fortunate because I'd already been sick, people were already quite gentle with me, so I didn't really have to explain that much. And I was going through menopause because I I also ended up having a transplant.
So there was quite a lot going on with me medically that I could actually put it under the radar and people were quite sympathetic. So that was quite good. But I I found it was more like how it affected me personally. I found it probably because I was young. Younger and I hadn't had children and I had to deal with that aspect of, Oh well, you know, that ship sailed. I found the identity crisis I had incredibly challenging and that was it then impacting him my confidence.
I felt like I wanted to be a wallflower and and that's not particularly easy in an environment where you're already made to be a wallflower because you're in the minority. So you've got to stand up and speak for yourself in in situations. I found that quite. Hard like I was already struggling with who I was. Who am I, you know who few weeks ago or a few months back I was this woman who could have children who was in a relationship, all sorts of things.
And then it is gone and coming to terms with that. And also I think society still has a certain view of women in menopause and a certain age and it's it's getting your own head around that and thinking now I'm still an attractive female. I'm not on the shelf or you know, it's it's all it's dealing with that negative attitude. As well with yourself because it, you know, my mother wouldn't talk about it. I asked her before I went into menopause, when did she go into
menopause and all. She told me she was in Ireland, so I don't know ever go to Ireland and she just didn't want her generation. She just did not want to talk about it at all. So I think something I would say is that people educate yourselves because because I went into early, I was totally ill prepared. I didn't know like even more than two symptoms, never mind 64 and I think. That was quite difficult.
So for me, work wise, I was able to work from home to a certain extent and be flexible with it. I just found it quite difficult when I would look at somebody and I think I know who you are and I don't know why don't you know, don't know your name at all. And and they could tell I didn't know the name and you think, Oh yeah, I can't explain this. This is embarrassing physically. Again, being younger, people don't think that's what it could be why you might be struggling,
you know. Now the age I am, they'd probably be thinking. That's why. But when it happened to me, yeah, you're younger people don't. Just don't think about it as something that could be happening to you. How have you been able to find support? Or have you been quite private? But I know that that people knew
you kind of were sick anyway. I think I've just been fortunate that I've had line managers who are probably younger and more more modern thinking, who probably have wives who tell them plenty that they wouldn't if they were 10 years older. There is, I do feel there is a generational shift, whereas Once Upon a time, you know, maybe that was a good way to get a day off and say you have like period pains and they just look at you
and run. Now I'm dealing with people who are probably in their 30s and 40s who are line management and they're much more open. To the subject it's they don't necessarily want to know the details, but this they're sympathetic and they're just a different generation thought wise. So I've been quite fortunate in that respect, I think. And have you gone about sort of helping yourself at work? Something good to do is journal
your symptoms. Because then you can go to your line manager and explain this is how this is impacting me particularly. Again in a modern workforce we have like hot desking policies. So you don't have the same desk every day. So you might find you're in the hot corner of the office and you like it or not or you don't have a fan on your desk. So if you can journal and and go and say this is what I need, give them solution. Most of the time they'll be quite happy to help you and.
That, I think is a big thing. Put the case to them rather than go and they seem and you think you're having a moan. That's a great piece of advice, Joe. Any other advice, Freddy? Give him some. But anything else that's kind of springing to mind that you wish you'd known or someone had told you?
I think if you can find others who are also going through similar, we have a a different kind of couple of networks that Department for Transport. We do have a women's network and we also have like a menopause network and I have found that a really valuable place to meet others to have a quick chat about, Oh, I can't work this out. Can anyone tell me how to get an occupational health referral or,
you know, anything that is made? You know medically and work related, but equally we we've just kind of shared how we found different offices, different ways of travelling to different offices and what works, what doesn't and it's just a place
where you can. I definitely feel I can be really really myself there and go I'm having a really rubbish day can anyone help me with this and and stuff and it's for me, it's about yeah just having that safe space to be able to say that And again I'm fortunate that I've had a really great line manager. I've got a really good team around me where I feel I can say to them or, you know, I'm having a really terrible day, I'm having a bit of a shocker.
You're going to have to step up and lead that. And that's the beauty of having a team, right, is that it's not all on you, is that you can kind of let others do that as well. So that has been another kind of another thing I would recommend is kind of making sure that you're not doing all the doing because some days you're not going to be there to do it all. Ali, is there anything, any advice he'd pass on, sort of thinking about all the women that you've helped and and how
they've coped with it at work? Yeah, I think The thing is to have an honest and open policy within the workplace and let people talk about menopause. A lot of companies appoint somebody called menopause champions.
So somebody that you can go to and talk about your menopause which may not be your line management, might be somebody else within the company and may not be of management level, but somebody that could that you can go to and support and talk about the different symptoms and how you can help and support each other. I think flexible working is a
big thing. It's you know, again, since lockdown, lots of the younger generation are are going towards this more flexible work because it fits in around their family lives. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for us to. You know, if you've got poor sleep and you've been awake all night, you don't fall asleep till 5:00 in the morning. You long goes off at six, you're
not going to function at work. So why make women go into work at 9:00 if they're not functioning or longer breaks? You know, going to the morning, work from home in the evening. Just be more flexible to fit in around. There's there's no point in staying at work till 5:00, staring at the screen. If you're not being productive. You'd be better to have a longer lunch break and then work later into the evening. You're just sitting around your
symptoms. We're APM, the only chartered membership organisation for the project profession. When you become an APM member, you'll receive the resources and support you need to make an impact, delivering better projects with better outcomes. Plus, you'll access exclusive training and benefits to support your ongoing career development. Find out how we can help you reach your potential by visiting apm.org.uk. Because when projects succeed, society benefits. Is there anything specifically
about project work? I guess this is for Joe and Rachel that that it's trickier to manage when it comes to sort of also living with menopausal symptoms. So I'm thinking about tight deadlines. I'm thinking that I think there is very much a culture within the project profession, certainly when I've interviewed people, that you have to be not necessarily extroverted, but you're the one in front of the client. You have to have a lot of self-confidence.
There's a lot of presentation being the one to fix things. Is there anything tricky? About project work that has been a challenge or that you've found good ways of dealing with. I think the confidence issue is is a challenge and I think another thing with project work, certainly sort of where I am, I guess I do get to work flexibly, but I'm on the client side. I know if I was not on the client side I would probably be
expected to be in the office. Much more on site particularly because it's a construction project there would be that but also projects are not often that long in nature. You may be moving on. So therefore you're then going back and if you know Ali mentioning symptoms can go on for you know seven years on average. So you're then having to say all against somebody else. So it's it's that that you with projects and and Pete the churn of people on projects, a lot of people don't stay on big
projects. More than a couple of years. So you were often having to have the same conversation 18 months later. And it said if you're expected to go on site, which a lot of people are, unless you speak up and then it's like, well, the spotlights on you, why are you not doing that? Why did you get off the hook? And that's not a comfortable conversation to have. Is it sometimes because you don't want to be the one standing out in the crowd of everyone else that's going on
site? But actually, sometimes you're far too hot to put on all that like this. Is it then just a matter of being brave and doing it and having that conversation? It's also individual. I felt at times when I was going through it, a lack of confidence and a poor night's sleep. Everything else. I was probably the worst person to advocate for myself because I probably would have chewed the head off and, you know, just
have pure tiredness. So I think that's why it's not just menopausal or postmenopausal women. We all have to advocate because you know, we're all going to go through it collectively because it's it's not, you're not always
in the best position. On that, with the greatest amount of confidence to speak up for yourself in that moment when you're challenged and you've got, you know, 12 men looking at you and the only person in the room or any woman in the room, it's a little bit like, oh, I don't really want to tell you all of that right now. What?
Advice would you give to If you're in a project and a project manager or team leader wants to do the right thing and is perhaps thinking about these issues for the first time, and Rachel, I've asked them to think about it. What is helpful for them to do? What is it about creating a particular kind of culture? Is it about the practical things? Is it about the language you use when talking about it? I think it's down to company culture and about talking about all sorts of medical health
issues from mental well-being. So if we keep bringing all of these up, I think it's about culture. There's practical things here on the mine. In every ladies toilets there's sanitary wear available, a variety to you. So if you have an accident you don't have to worry and go searching for another female to ask if she's got anything. It's there.
Simple little hacks like that from a practical perspective, but ultimately it's culture so that you you feel you can speak up without being embarrassed about something. That actually is very normal. What about you, Joe? I was just reflecting on this. I have something called a Wellness action plan, which I share with people I work with closely, which when I'm well, this is what I look like and this is how I will work. But if if there are things when
I'm not well. And Rachel, you were just saying that when you've had no sleep and you're feeling super perimenopause or menopause or you're not your best advocate, sometimes you can't see it yourself. When you're in the thick of it. I get really, really angry and get really, really hot angry and confused and it just takes them to kind of. There's a couple of phrases that I have that I use that to say, Joe, are you feeling OK today?
And I know when they say that, but I think, oh, hang on, they've noticed that something different about me. Maybe I'm not being myself, but I think that that that has taken a lot for me to put myself out there and say here's what I look like when I'm well, here's what I look like when things may not be going as well. But want you to help me either recognise that I'm not doing as well because sometimes you just can't see it, but also help me get better.
And that's something that's really personal to me. But I do think that everyone should kind of consider what they look like when they're, you know, at their 90% laziness. And then when they're kind of sliding down and thinking, oh, I'm really tired, I've got a newborn baby or I've not been, you know, sleeping very well, etcetera.
I think there's lots of things that we can all learn from this because as we've all said I think previously, we're here until we're at least 60-7 at the moment working. We might as well kind of make our time at work reasonably enjoyable or livable while we're here. I think that's really important. And is there any advice you would give to people who are in the senior positions at work about making sure that they do things the right way and that they support women in the right way?
Yeah, I just. Think it's being flexible and being understanding really. And we all know the NHS is very overstretched at the moment and it's actually quite hard to get a GP appointment. So a lot of GP surgeries only offer appointments on the day. You can't have to camp book appointments anymore. And so that might be a day that you're at work. So you can't necessarily book a day's holiday for your appointment.
So if you do need to go and see a menopause specialist, then make sure it's and it's in work time. It might not be you doing it on purpose, it might be that you that is the only appointment that you can get. A lot of GP surgeries do have. And somebody that specialises within their surgery as well, you know a nurse practitioner or GP who has a special interest in manifest and they may be part time, they may only work certain days.
So it might be that you can only get an appointment on a particular day and it might be a day that you're at work. So it's just allowing women to be flexible and access the right care and treatment so that they can get the the correct help and advice and and to help them to function long term. Just thinking about the future and project work. I guess it's for you again for Joe and Rachel about it.
Could things still be done in a better way when it comes to project work that means that menopausal women can thrive? There's definitely room for improvement. I mean, if you about how much effort is made to support pregnant women, they're going through a tough time, but there's a room that they can go and rest in. There's much more flexibility allowed. All right. You could argue it's a short period, but even when they come back, as mentioned, sleepless
nights. So I think there's a lot more room. But I think one of the biggest things is to make sure that you retain women. At the moment they're not retain women and those women who can then help the next generation. And advocate they're losing them. Yeah, without those people then you would each generation is just going to come up and only chip away a little bit. Do you feel sensitive kind of responsibility to be role models to the women beneath you?
Because you mean Rachel, you talked about your mum and saying she never talks about it and perhaps this generational is the one that is can talk about it at work. Do you ever feel that sense of, you know, you're kind of changing things need to be seen to be doing this for the women coming up, you know, underneath you? Definitely. If if I don't speak up, then you know the generation, but behind won't.
You know, we've got, we've just got to have that conversation because as we've discussed, I'm going to be here till I'm 67. That's a long time. You got to try and make it easier for yourself and there are women in generations ahead who made other things for us easier. So if I can do my little bit, I will do, you know, 100 percent,
100%. It's it's so important, isn't it, to lift as you climb, to make sure that as you're advancing in your career or in in your menopause that everyone else understands it and that they have space to kind of follow behind you. I think it's just really, really important. Any last things you want to pass on to listeners or anything? Any advice you'd give that we haven't had a chance to kind of mention, I think Rachel said earlier about journaling everything.
I think even if you're not thinking you're perimenopausal or even if you're a woman who is having regular periods, journal or your symptoms and get to know your own cycle, how you work, what your peaks and troughs are. Because I think that that will help no end. Not just for when you hit the perimenopause and the menopause, but it actually help you right now to know that maybe having a big presentation the day before your period is due, that may not work for you.
But if you can flex around that because actually you you aren't feeling your best physically and probably mentally as well. So why not make it easier for ourselves in knowing who what we are, who what our bodies are doing to us and our minds, so that we can then present ourselves in a better light at work when we need to? Rachel, anything you'd like to add? I just say, you know, to women of all ages, learn about the menopause, understand what
what's coming at the moment. Most of us just hear about hot flushes, really. And then there's a whole raft of other symptoms. Also, I understand that people from different ethnic backgrounds experience different symptoms. So I understand hot flushes and impact Caucasian women more. So you know, learn about it so that when it comes, you've got an idea that it's. What's happening to you? Ali, anything you'd like to add everything? Is don't suffer in silence
really. You know everybody's menopause is quite different and if all your friends appear to self with menopause and you're struggling and don't feel ashamed, it doesn't mean that you're a failure. It just means that you you have different symptoms to your friends. And there is always treatment options are available to all women whether it be HMRC or other medication or diet and lifestyle as well.
This is a chance to to look at the triggers that being observed and often alcohol, caffeine, things like that can bring on hot flushes. So just be aware of your. Person has been aware of the triggers and get the right medical help and advice. Are there any resources you'd recommend? Any books or podcasts or anything that you would point women to to want to educate themselves about this or or find some help?
I really recommend Doctor Louise Newsome's website, which is called Balance. I find it's a really big kind of treasure trove of information. And if I think people want to find out a bit more about menopause and perimenopause, she did a podcast with James Smith who's like a personal trainer, about a year or so ago. I did kind of get my line manager to listen to that because James Smith is a very alpha male, but he completely kind of goal perimenopause and
menopause. And for me, that was quite revolutionary and groundbreaking because he's so alpha male and and young and actually was thinking about perimenopause and menopause and your exercise and diet and stress and how that impacts everything. And I'm Ali, obviously your next phone in this field. How can people find out about you and the resources available to them? So like in this course, simply menopausal. So I have my own website simplymenopausal.co.uk.
There's lots of information on there and you can also follow me on social media. I've got Facebook group called the Simple Menopausal Community which is a safe space that just has women in there. And obviously I don't give medical advice on social media, but it's it's nice to help support each other and so you don't feel alone. And if you are in a workplace where you're not supportive, at least you can get support from other women in a similar
situations. And I also do lots of stuff on Instagram and Facebook. Generally as well. And I've also got something called the Mighty Networks which is more of a corporate type platform which is myself and Cathie Hasty who is the HR consultant that together we give lots of corporate help and advice to help and support women in the workplace is called It's Mighty Networks and it's called Menopause working with simply menopause. Also lots of device on there as well. OK. Brilliant.
Thank you and and and finally, Rachel, any books or podcasts or resources that you've been helpful for you? Davina McCall, She has done a lot with it. I can't remember the name of the doctor that has done a lot of her Instagram posts recently and. Yeah. It's just it's just very human. Discussing how difficult things are and what happens, I found that very relatable. I think we've covered a lot of
ground here. And so nice to hear that you're experiencing what all that person's been sounds pretty tricky and challenging, but the fact that you feel supported and have been treated and in the right way and being brave enough really to talk about this openly is, is really a great thing to hear. So I want to thank you again for your time and uh, wish you best of luck with everything and then, yeah, thank you again. Thank you. My pleasure. Thank you.
Thank you for inviting me. Thanks again to Rachel, Joe, and Annie for joining us, and to you for listening to the APM podcast. Don't forget to look out for more episodes or to rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts. We'd welcome you to get in touch with your comments, feedback and suggestions by emailing us at apmpodcast@thinkpublishing.co.uk. This podcast has been brought to you by APM, The Chartered Body for the project profession.
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