Welcome to the IPM podcast. Opium is a childhood body for the project profession. My name is Emma divita and I'm the editor of project apm's quarterly journal and your host. Today, we're speaking to through the professions Bright Young, things who care, deeply about sustainability, tan cover, what are the younger Generations? Biggest concerns expectations and hopes? What? Do they want to older generations, to understand about
them? What is it about the project profession that motivates them so deeply and what can we learn from them about new ways of working? So, the three talented people I have with me today are some of those I met at the cover, shoot for projects, Autumn issue.
When we featured, nine young people who are going places to spill the beans on what makes our generation tick as a Generation X. ER, I was really impressed with our sense of agency and enthusiasm, listen on to hear how they feel, they are very much part of the solution. Many of the problems we face in the environment society and business today, you can't afford to not listen to them. Thanks for joining us today. Why don't you tell us a bit about yourselves? If we start with you, Stacey.
Hi. I'm Stacy Bishop. I'm 26 years old, and I'm an international integration project manager for SSE Renewables. What does your job role? Encompass, what projects are you working on right now? So I span across a few different projects, all of which are international. But my main focus is to look at policies and procedures. The all currently based in the UK and figure out how we can make them applicable in country. So that could be Japan, Netherlands. The u.s. multiple different
areas but that's my main focus. Okay. Thanks and Ashland. Tell us about yourself. Hi, I'm Ashley and I didn't. I'm 26 years old and I'm a project manager with talent and send in London, okay? Any particular projects you're working on at the moment. Yep. Currently working with Essex and Suffolk water. So doing a kind of range, I'm an engineering and Construction contract p.m. Sunday, ccpm. So I work with them doing about
13 different projects. A range of essential water infrastructure but also mainly on their ill, regs health program, which is a program to help increase the biodiversity net gain of rivers in Essex and Suffolk. Okay, thanks and James. Yeah. Hi. I'm changed the traco at my, background is in Renewable Energy, Engineering. So, that's what I did. My master's degree in and now, I'm an engineering project manager for a company called core energy, who leads hydrogen storage in Europe.
I've been working for the last year, on a base funded project. That's the Department of Business energy and Industrial strategy on a new novel, green, hydrogen storage. Ecology and working with a Consortium to deliver that McKay's, thanks. I think the first thing I'd like to ask you all as kind of I'm going to say that your hive High Flyers in your 20s. I'm curious to find out what Drew you all to project management Ashton. What do you to project management?
I think the first thing that you need to project management was just that, I always felt like a bit of an all-rounder, the whole way through school and especially in engineering, Degree. I picked a range of modules, you know, that might not have made sense for a specific discipline, but gave me a good overview of the whole process and things
that I enjoyed. So, you know, might've done computer, aided design, and also, if they're move and, you know, these ones that maybe don't go together in the most coherent technical sense, but I just really like the overview of the whole process. So, I think, for those who, you know, all around us, who enjoy a bit of everything at school and at Uni, I really like project management.
And I also think it's a really good blend of Technical and soft skills, so you get to look in on on the technical subjects, but you also get to be, you know, involved in team leadership and management which is also really. Yeah, feeling, I think What appeals to younger people about project management because I'm always impressed. I think of project managers as the people who actually get stuff done.
It is that part of the appeal for you to actually see things happen because of, you know, past pot, your efforts on it. Yeah, I think the appeal to me is kind of seeing things from a bird's-eye view. I mean, there's subject matter Experts of Kind of every function that's in every world that alone. Just the kind of corporate world that I work it in but it's being able to see all of that at the same time and organize it in a way that you deliver what you
need to deliver. I think for younger people today and actually a large part of what I enjoy so much as well, is the pretty much unlimited choice of industries that you can work in. So for example, I moved from the defense industry to the Renewables interest industry which is something that I'm really passionate. About. But the possibilities are absolutely endless. Whether you want to work in food or fashion or engineering or construction.
There's so many options that you don't actually have to choose until you choose, if that makes sense. So you really can move around and just keep learning, which is really appealing. How about you James? What do you to project management? It is, I think it's I'm learning that there's quite a similar story here between between us young project managers.
I always found that, you know, through gcses and you have to make decisions quite quite early on in life, as where you want to, where you want to go into and that really Narrows your sort of your horizon of where you want your career to end up. And I found just keeping my options as wide open as I possibly could was what brought me most satisfaction in learning. And then again, as Ashton was saying at University, I found that I just wanted to do
everything. I want to learn as much as I could and have oversight of things and group projects are always most exciting for me. You'll kind of around the age of 25 26. So you're actually I think you're the very tail end of the millennial generation perhaps even bordering on Jen said, so I have quite a big question to ask if you which because because there's been a lot written about generation said, and younger Millennials about what matters
most you in your career. So it's a huge question but it'd be great to have some insight into what Oops, each of you thinks is the most important for you personally, Min, what you get from your career? Is there any one of you brave enough to start on this? I can have a go. So for me, I think and how I align myself in my personality and also my career, what I initially start thinking that a career as a project as well, which is probably very quintessential project management.
But so, I just want to make the largest net positive impact on on lives, bit human or animal, and, and the environment as possible. But while maintaining my own well, being mentally and physically as so you can, you can push it a little bit too far and focus too much, but you have to do something that will enable you to keep going on your mission. Yeah, Funk fundamentally for me, that's kind of the meaning of life, and what?
Just speaks to me as a person. So, and then there's also, you know, getting myself into the position where I can make the, the largest impact that I can do in a, in a positive way. So that will include responsibility having, you know, learning along the way, making good networks with people and That in my career is about people as well. I just love interacting with people, you know, and trying to use, you know, talking to people finding out the personalities.
What people are good at is just, it's brings a lot of color and to working. And also just challenge is very important as well. So finding the right mix of security and chaos. Chaos being not, you do not papers flying everywhere. But, you know, having having change JH at a good at a good rate while maintaining a level of security. I think is important for change to happen in the first place. So you feel very much connected to the larger issues of our days.
Because obviously obviously climate sustainability is massive, is that something that is cool to you finding satisfaction from your work? Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I think, you know, there are there Pillars of personality and pillars of happiness.
And one of those pillars of happiness is to to feel like you're, you know, you've got a name and you have purpose and that you can make a difference and based on your own morals and ethics, what a mind being sustainability and the environment and the planet, and all of those that live there is to assume prove that. So for me, you know, quite a dilemma Choice of going into renewable energy and being an engineer and then becoming a project manager in order.
In order to make that, to make that change happen. Okay. Do you feel that you have a sense of agency? Because there's a lot of pessimism monks older generations, and the sense of responsibility that work are kind of passing down to those who have to help. Find a solution. Do you feel optimistic? Do you feel empowered?
Do you feel listened to In there are some ways you can feel listened to, I suppose there's I don't I don't have a seat at the Prime Minister table, but in my in my own company I think you can after a while you can command a certain respect and and therefore your listen to. So, I think in the work that I do, I can if I believe that there's a positive net gain from
a certain decision. Then I feel like I I can make that decision and happily justify it to the people that I need to justify it to. And that I will be listened to and that they have a certain level of trust that I've managed to build up. But I mean, that's always a challenge and joining a new workplace in having to prove yourself enough that they'll listen to you. And that comes with a certain amount of confidence and
everybody has imposter syndrome. And that's just something that you have to work through and know in yourself that you have the ability to make changes. Change in that decisions that you make will be well-founded based on your own, you know, principles and expertise. And you mentioned happiness, and well-being as well. So they're, they're, they're kind of things are important to you as well. Absolutely. Yeah, I really try to combine both my professional life and my personal life.
I don't want there to be a difference between them really in that sort of, you know, I need to keep myself. You know, well-maintained, mentally and physically and also I like to, you know, put in the same effort as I do into my projects and the other things that I care about. So, you know, I do, I do lots of psychological research, you know, on on what can make me function in the best possible
way. So, you know, optimal morning routines levels of dopamine cortisol, adrenaline, and that I'd like to focus on On. So I can keep myself operating because if I if I'm you know low or I'm not doing things right, you know physiologically and you know neurologically then I'm not going to function well as a project manager and just just in my general life and with my friends, I just want to be present and effective in everything.
And a large part of that is acknowledging, that mental health is important and physical. Health is important. What, what do you think of work-life balance? Is that a term that you think of as it gone beyond that? Yeah. Work-life balance. I think work should almost be a lifestyle that you're living rather than, you know, work versus versus life. I think they should.
I mean, if you have the ability to to make them one in the same, as I sort of mentioned, yeah, it's really important and I think I think people are becoming more, you know, and companies are becoming more aware of that as well, you know, in Powering empowering the person to, you know, they get home from work and they feel like they've really contributed or they've been listened to. And that's, that's just so
important for morale. And so important for your own the employees Hannity. We just, you know, if you're if you're in a renewable field or a field that's looking to better things. Then you know, a large focus
should be on the people as well. The people that you interact with and the people that work for you, That should be you know if your if your moral compass is pointing in the right direction and that should always be something that you're looking into just the well-being of your employees. Okay? Great. Thank you. I'm Stacey. Is that does anything what James has said resonate with you mean what matters most you to you in your career? To me, what matters? Most of my career is a sense of
purpose. I agree with James in the fact that you need to be passionate about something to be able to be effective and deliver on that and working in the Renewables industry, I do feel like my contributions, making a difference and no matter how big or small and without that I do find out lose motivation relatively quickly. I think there's almost a stigma among Just many generations of not talking about money and salary, and that it almost doesn't matter, and I disagree with that.
I think it really does matter especially in our current economic situation and project management is a well-paid career and I think people should know that to be honest for me as long as I am enough to maintain my lifestyle then I'm happy, I'm not going to chase something. I don't need but I think it's good to acknowledge and let others know that. Is well-paid career, and there is job security, which is very
important at the moment. I think on James is point with work-life balance, I do disagree. I keep my work life and personal life, very separate. And for me, that works, I work from home. I constantly work from home. So my office is in my loft, um, and everything below the loft is nothing to do with work. I am a different person inside and out of work. And I think that, that's Okay, as long as you can manage that my morals Etc. Obviously are the same.
My belief system is still the same but the way that I act at work and the way I acted my personal life is completely separate and I think that does work and do you feel listened to do? You feel that you've got sense of agency about? I mean, you've picked you worked in defense, you've moved over to Renewables, you'll see care, deeply about the Environment or bigger issues. But do you feel as though you are being listened to and that you can make a change for the better?
Yeah, I think there's a difference in being listened to as a generation and being listened to as a person as a person. I think I am Listen to I've built up confidence in my ability. In the workspace that says, I know what I'm doing and therefore, there's a trust within me and my team that I know I'm talking about and I can deliver on what I'm telling them that I can deliver. So, in that sense, I do feel My ideas are taken on board and we can work with them.
Not all of them of course, but that's absolutely fine. That's never going to happen but we can work on them because chapter feedback Etc. And I think that really works as a generation. I think it's different in that there's different responses. One of the biggest issues for this generation. I'm actually part of gen Z but I like the year that it changed. So maybe a gen zhenya like that. But I think There's a difference in who's listening?
I think there's a certain guilt for all the generations that this has been passed down to the younger generations. And I think there's also part of those older Generations that, you know, counsels kind of like the woke culture in inverted inverted commas. So I think there's a constant battle to make sure that we listen to and respected in that
this generation. As you know, pursuing careers around the subject of kind of climate change and sustainability, and we do that research, we have that experience and we do know what we're talking about and kind of proving that and making ourselves hard is is a constant challenge, but I think it's worth it. If if we can convince a few people that it's real and that we can do something about it individually, I think it's definitely worth it. Do you feel is there ageism
against younger people? Do you feel as though it's harder to be taken seriously, because you're younger. I've had experiences of both, I think there is a certain stigma around specifically. I didn't go to university. So I've been in the workforce since the age of 18 and at that age, yes, it's very hard to be taken seriously. Now, that I've kind of grown, I mean going to 26 but growing some fun and kind of work my way up and built that trust.
It's easy. ER, to be heard and it's easier to be taken seriously and have those conversations, but I definitely think there's a stigma around younger people being assumed that they don't know what they're talking about. Were, in fact, a lot of the time we do, Okay, that's interesting. Ashton. What would you agree with anything today? So James has said we're in what matters most to you and your career.
Yeah, no. I completely agree with Stacey and that, you know, purpose, super, super important. Like, you know, you have to enjoy what you do in order to, you know, put, you know, be the best the best employee you can be. I think what I really enjoy about project management is the sense of autonomy so much. You know, how much kind of responsibility you're given even, you know, as a graduate scheme that you're on The Graduate scheme that I was just on.
There was a lot of autonomy which I really enjoyed but also Yeah, this continuous self-improvement. So the more experience you get, you know, more different projects. You can do the more you learn. And that's really important to me, you know, as for money like a course, of course, money is important to our generation, you know, we faced multiple financial crisis and our lives and pressed into the vents and all this kind of stuff and to
continue to live and work. You know, money is important as a driving Factor, but I think, you know, we might not be yours. Successful as our parents as a result but I don't think that's a driving factor for me. I think it's just as long as I can continue to. Yeah, live and work. If I am, then that's fine. I think the thing that really matters to me is kind of the longevity of projects.
I mean, I'm biased here. I work in infrastructure but you know, being able to walk past something and say, you know, I was a part of that, you know, being able to say, all that's on that. That's, you know, that's, that's really important to me. So, I think James said it best in times of Challenge and security. You want a good balance of, you know, being able to feel secure
in a job. But also, yeah, continually self-improving and do you feel as though you, you have a sense of agency that you feel empowered and that your listen to when it comes to the kind of bigger issues of the faces right now? Yeah, I do I think, I think delivery PMS have a kind of a difficult, you know, Ridin that in terms of sustainability because, you know, you can only really put into place what the current structure stands there
at the moment. So obviously, when it comes to a new funding cycle for your client, for example, or a new program set up, you can do quite a lot of work in terms of sustainability, governments for the delivery of that set of works. But actually when you're in the cycle in the funding cycle, delivering those projects, if those standards and specs and governance aren't sort of Down. It's quite hard to make a difference as a delivery p.m.
So I think I think that the work that we can definitely do is delivery PM's is you know, advising our clients.
When it comes to the new cycle, what we could do better and then when that you Cycles in place, you know when you've got for example, sustainable procurement targets to me when you've got you know, a kpi is that you're monitoring contact us to, you know, in terms of sustainable performance, making sure that we hit those to the Out of our ability as is definitely way that delivery PM's can make a difference.
But I think I think there's an interesting thing in that, you know, people at top want to want to, listen to people who are passionate about stuff at this. But there's a limited function in which that happens. I also think sustainability is one of those really tough ones that not a lot of clients have a lot of buy into and as a result you know they need the
regulation to do that. So I think where I struggle to feel heard is by perhaps you know governments or people making regulations Allows us to do this allows us to deliver in that way. If any of you found a way to go beyond the 9 to 5 with an initiative beyond your actual day job when it comes to sustainability or doing things differently and actually been able to make a success of it will be listened to as that does that.
Apply to any of you? Not necessarily outside of my day job, but I do outside of my client work which is, you know, 95 5 days a week. I'm really trying to push Stuff like internal training, internal awareness training.
There's a range of courses that, you know, project managers could be more aware of stuff, like, sequels stuff, like, you know, just the basics of scope one, two and three because I think that knowledge is the best way to drive awareness within clients, you know, being like, Oh, we offer this or this Services out there or this tool is out there. So trying to drive internal Learning and Development.
Mint is something that I'm doing and also trying to look at sort of maturity of big players in the space on their sustainability and how we can advise on that. So it's kind of an extracurricular as you like it, but it's not technically outside of my 95. But yeah, I think education on that's really important but you feel you can be proactive on something and actually get something done about it. Yeah, for sure, I think.
Yeah. In terms of educating Project managers of all levels and sustainability, that's something we can definitely achieve. Jesus, the other two of you want to add anything or yeah, I've got one from completely outside by 95. Really, in my personal life. I'm actually vegan and as, as my partner as, as my mom now, but kind of showing people that, you know, the impact of not necessarily going vegan. I don't kind of impose on other people's lives. It doesn't, you know, doesn't
matter what people? it's completely preference, but showing people the impact of maybe a meat-free Monday or, you know, Taco Tuesday with With like, mushroom, instead of normal men's showing people that they can, they can make small changes in their personal lives. That make a huge impact. Not necessarily just for Animal Welfare, but for the environment as well, the impact on the environment of my enemy is, is unbelievable, as well as not consuming Dairy.
So, I think without preaching in my personal life, I just try and make it known, and I often cook for people to show them that. It can be delicious and it doesn't have to be, you know, a stab of meat on the plate with mashed potato or whatever. It can be, it could be something more adventurous without harming
animals in any way. And also at the same time, helping the planet, It's kind of a big question, but you work with others Generations. I'm assuming on your projects and within the organization, what I wanted to ask the three of you would be. Can you identify any ways that you see your generation doing things differently? When it comes to work? Then older Generations do?
And if so what they are and also, if there's anything you'd like the older generations of managers and leaders to understand, And about those newer entrance to the profession. What would that be? I feel like this generation takes the saying, work smarter not harder, quite literally, and it's not a bad thing. I think it's a really good thing.
I've seen peers use technology to automate processes to make systems more efficient and, you know, stop wasting time on Monday night, ivities that you know take up. Most of the Working Day, although it's not specifically generational generational and in my experience, there are other Generations that are more than willing to learn how to utilize that technology to make their lives easier.
But that push I've seen often stems from kind of gen Z and Millennials as for Noticing or getting the older generation to bring in the younger generation and work with them. I think talking is so important and being able to actively listen to what, you know, new hires or younger Generations are saying whether that's changes to how the corporate structure is, or whether something's not quite working from them from a work
life perspective. Or they need something else in their career to give them that sense of purpose and to give them that drive and motivation. I think all of that comes from active listening listening and the visibility of kind of directors, CEOs, Etc, and availability of that availability of those conversations is really important. Can you give any plastic practical examples of specific things that enable you to have a
conversation with those? More experience with you know work do you do mentoring or reverse mentoring or anything that works that others could use perhaps in their jobs. Yeah, there's a few different ways.
There is a mentoring scheme at SSA and I really believe in mentoring where it's so rewarding because not only can you help others kind of find their path and teach them new things but you can learn a lot of new things about yourself and that's kind of mentoring and reverse mentoring all-in-one, and whether it's, you know, finding out that your preference of leadership style or something that you don't know about the industry that you're in every day is a learning day, and I
think that's really important. Not only that there's and I'm sure many corporations do this, but kind of all employee calls where there's our visibility of senior leadership and availability of submit questions and things like that. I think that does work as well and to be honest from my perspective I wouldn't really have an issue putting or trying to find a slot for a meeting with someone on a director level to chat with them about something that I think is
important. Me and should be important to them as well and I think that approachability is really impactful and has the pandemic affected. Things has it made things more democratic, because by Nature video calls, everyone is given equal space and everyone can see everyone else. And perhaps, you'll meeting people online that you would never have had in a meeting face-to-face. Yeah, I absolutely agree really
with what you've just said. I think. the the impact of covid and working from home, is that you're seeing everyone in the house, whether they've got a blood background or a green screen, or you know, someone's dog will jump on the camera or Someone's Child will come and sit on their lap or someone's doorbell will go and I think it just reminds you that the people on your screen are people, whether they're, you know, five corporate levels of blood above you or below you the their
people and their opinion matters if it matters to And then it should be discussed if they want to raise it but I think. Yeah. I think having that visibility and having different people on your screen then you would have
in the room. You may be based halfway across the world but you have that opportunity to talk to someone that you wouldn't have had before and that's not minimizing the negative impacts of working from home and covid of course, but I think that's that's one of the few positive ones. Mmm. Okay. I shouldn't say anything. You want to talk about when it comes to how your generation does things differently?
Yeah. It's also I think the big one for me is that most gendered, I think technically, I'm a young Millennial, but, you know, that sort of young Millennial, Jen said, generation overwhelmingly, believe in climate change and also more than that, something like 75% overwhelmingly believe
in climate. Engine and another 50% off at 75% think that we can't, you know, stop it, but we can do something to mitigate it. So I think the fact that we take it as a fact as a sort of undisputable fact, you know, we want to do something about it, we have the energy to do stuff about it is really positive, you know, and people who want to sort of manage and Lead gen said, you need to harness that I think the best way to harness that kind of energy is Is no
support our passion, you know, in these initiatives and the best way to do that I found is you know act as a sponsor to these groups maybe even if you don't understand it to the same degree. Like I've been incredibly lucky and have done a couple of years and corporate sustainability to have a wealth of understanding. But you know even if you don't understand it to the same degree, I think giving kind of clear useful, deliverables and time scale stuff.
That's going to benefit. You know, how do you want what this energy that we You know what format do you want to earn? And what do you want us to do with it and then sponsoring and supporting that energy? Because you know, we all have that we have a time and energy to run with it. So, so that's I think the big thing for that but I also think in terms of the sort of Our Generation with the most
interconnected generation. But also we had the pandemic where, I think a lot of people felt incredibly isolated. So, I think, what's great about the new way of working is that we've got this combination of working from home coming into the office. And then, you know, a couple of my colleagues are really happy to be back, full-time office
work. And as a result, you know, I think we're very social generation and the combination of being able to meet, you know, perhaps senior directors via for these coffee connects. I think we do at work, you know, even if it's 15 minutes, five teams or 15 minutes in the office to get that visibility and to get that. Of understanding of how they got to where they are. And, you know, do they have you know, an interesting you is really important as well. So I think that's something
we're trying to bring back. I know that there's there's working from home, life is really great. But I also think that for people who've been in, you know, you New York school for the last couple of years who pretty much work from home. The whole time, there is an appetite to get back into the office when I would like to do stuff in person again. Yeah. So people people want to be sociable.
They do. Yeah. Yeah, I think that that should be supported, you know, great for team building and, you know, networking and stuff like that. So our older managers and leaders good at knowing what to do with your energy. No, kind of sense of urgency about the climate and they are they good at knowing what to do about that? How to use that effectively?
Or could they do it better? I think the big thing is that I often find, I have a lot of ideas, but there's not a lot of, you know, I We need specific kind of deliverables and outputs. Like how is this idea useful to you guys? How is it that I can put this energy in this idea into something? That's a useful PowerPoint, that's not just going to get stuffed away and never looked at again, you know what I mean?
What's it, what's something that I can put my energy and that's actually going to make a difference. So I think having that kind of vision that roadmap planning to 2025 or, you know, further, okay? This is what we want to achieve this percentage trained in this. Example or or you know this amount of new hires with this specialism or whatever if that's what you're trying to achieve and you know you can translate that into something that you know I'm passionate about as well.
Then we're happy, you know, to work towards that but I think it's just I think I exactly as a young professional with a lot of energy just needs kind of Direction. Clear timelines and a sponsorship. The Division. I think I'm very lucky that where I work. I was a lot of vision so it's given that but yeah. That's the main thing. It's just how can we direct our focus into something that is actually useful to society? Wider as well? Okay. Brilliant and James.
What? I mean how do you feel your your generation does things differently? Would you agree? We'll station at Ashland have said, would you like to know about what would you like her managers and leaders who are older than you to know about what your generation wants or needs some wore off? Yeah, yeah, I completely agree with Stacey and Ashton. I think they make great points. Yeah, I think I think we are
going further away from you. No more centralized Power Systems and, you know, the sort of management methodologies and work, it's actually a fresh out of the APM textbook. There's a, there's an example of a theory by Douglas McGregor. It's Theory. X and Theory Y. And their motivational theories and Theory X talks about managers motivating, their employees by supervision and, you know, people don't actually intrinsically your enjoy work.
So then they must be supervised, where Theory, Y stresses reward and recognition for employees empowering them to have a voice, and a seat at the table. And the theory is such that the employee does want to work and that they will. I'll work. If, you know, then they're not being strictly supervised, big brother asked. And I think, I think partly the pandemic is helped in showing that, you know, if people do work from home, then then they
are, they can be effective. And to make that that right, you need to have communication, you know, you have to have, you know, updates on how the individual is doing to achieve their clearly defined, you know, goals aims and objectives. If as as Ashley was saying as well. So I think I think that's something that's happening.
A little bit more and it's not just the pandemic, it's the slow moving towards empowerment of the people and against this sort of sort of Rusty, generic capitalist structure. So. And I think the more, the more companies can move into that and just make sure that their employees have morale and perhaps, you know, asking, you know, Anonymous surveys which Which they have at my work as well. So ask, what could we be doing?
Better is is good, you know, my company also has good and they do, they do sort of mental health settlement seminars we have access to counselors if we need them and I think that's that's really fantastic. And again we've talked about mental health in this this conversation earlier, but it's really just being being open, open with that kind of thing.
You know, letting people Express Themselves being listened to, you know, you know, movements with sexism racism and all of this stuff we're slowly becoming more left as Generations. Go on and and I think that's that's brilliant and it's a good age to get into into the industry. If I could text me on to the end of that, I completely agree with James. I think something that's really powerful that we should utilize more, especially in some of the corporate world is reverse mentoring.
So, Obviously having, you know, mentoring is really important, just from those martinis. There's my junior in terms of, you know, drive and focus and interest in them, but I also think as a generation, we are particularly up to speed with, you know, diversity is very important to us. Sustainability is very important to us. Mental health is incredibly important to us and thanks to
the internet. You know, we have grown up listening to people's experiences and listening to people's stories and you know, that's something that that is, you know, the The children who grow up with internet. How about, you know, very much other skill of theirs and I reverse mentoring, you can start to educate those in. You know, perhaps people have seen your experience who haven't, you know, heard those experiences or have the same
opinion. So I think, I think diversity and mental health and sustainability are increasing things that people look for. When they comment entry jobs, you know, does this company have a commitment to diversity? Does this company have a commitment to you?
No environmental sustainability and I think that, you know, they could really learn a lot from what's important to us and therefore it's important to I think, you know, the growing Market in general and as so I suppose it goes again for you know if you do want to suggest something to management it's not to wait until you have the you know you'll offered the
opportunity to do it on a plate. And I think I think all managers would would welcome any good manager and good CEO would welcome you to put together a piece of Thing that you would like to do to benefit the company concise, you know, almost like an executive summary that you can quickly, present an elevator pitch for an idea that you have.
I just say again initiative. If you've got that energy, put it into something, create create yourself, you know, something that you can take to somebody rather than waiting for the opportunity. Because I think I think that
happens perhaps too much. We're nearly out of time and I just wanted to thank you and if your time and your energy but also if your honesty The and for sharing your perspective, there's much food for thought and I very much hope that this will give others within your own generation. The ability to, to see just how important it is the work that you do. And I'm just bowled over by your sense of purpose and not being crushed. Hi kind of pessimism which I wouldn't blame that.
You would have And thanks again for your practical suggestions as well. So it's really appreciated. Hope you've enjoyed it. Yes, been great. Thank you, Emma. Thanks, Emma. Thank you for having me. Thanks again to Stacy Ashlyn, and James for joining us and to you for listening to this episode of the OPM podcast, you can find out more about the nine young leaders project featured in the Autumn issue by going to
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