Welcome to the IPM podcast. OPM is to Childhood body for the project profession. My name is Emma Devita and I'm the editor of project apm's quarterly journal and your host. In this podcast. I speak to hey, coding Unison, Professor project management at the University of Reykjavik, he can't invite me over early, in the year to visit Iceland and find out more about the The projects being undertaken there and how the university specifically through its Masters
in project. Management course is helping create the project professionals needed to take the country through its latest transformation. You can read all about it in the spring issue of the journal, so don't miss that. But now he could talks to me about his unusual entry into project management and how the Icelandic mindset is something we could all benefit learning from. Welcome hair, curlier in Reykjavik. What's it, like, in Reykjavik at the moment? It's really nice.
It's quiet. It's not raining or not, knowing at the moment. It's a quiet. Beautiful morning in Reykjavik. So it was wonderful to visit earlier in the year and I was so impressed by what you're doing at the University and helping to shape the next generation of project professionals, which there seems to be a very strong demand for in Iceland at the You have a little bit of an unusual background coming to project management.
Could you talk a bit about how you you found yourself teaching the Masters in project management at the University of Reykjavik? Yes, that's true. I my background is rather unusual in the School of Technology. So I'm a theologian. I have a strong background in Psychology or so and philosophy but since Early on I was always doing things so I'm very practical in everything I do. I remember when I was a kid, I
worked in a farm. When I was 9 to 17 years old, in the summertime, that was regarded as a something that was good for children to do. So I built houses, I have I know how to smelt. I can do all kinds of different things. So, throughout my life, I've always been very keen on. Getting things done. So when I came back from my PhD studies in New York, I went into theology. I also have some background in economics and but I pursued a career like in theology with a
focus on psychology. So my PhD is in the field called Psychiatry and religion and I worked as a hospital. Chaplain at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York and I also did Training as a psychoanalyst. And when I came back to Iceland, I hooked up with my good friend, health authority in cash own and we had, he had gotten very interested in this new field project management and we wanted to do something together.
So we sat down and he explained to me, briefly what project management is and and actually with a senior engineer that had kind of been his mentor in project management. And a man with a very long experience in the field and kind of kind of The Godfather of project management in Iceland. So after a very interesting encounter where we were three sitting together, I said to them, let me go home and think deeply what I can bring into the field.
Two days later we met again and I came back with ideas about let's say self-management how to cope with stress Negotiations, how to engage people in the conversations interpersonal. Communications, Conflict Management crisis management cultural implications of of our works ethics and I could go on and on. So we kind of brought all of this together and we created a program called project leadership and product management and Leadership and
that became a great success. And out of that grew this Master's Mpm program at Reykjavik University, is a place for professionals who have experience and want to kind of renew themselves or take it further. I teach four courses, it's a product leadership self growth and development. I blend in to it. A lot of insights from the humanities and from philosophy and from social sciences. There's a course on the group dynamics and and project teams. There's a course on Project.
Negotiations, conflicts and crises. And then there's a course on project management in diverse cultural settings. And I'm not eating all of this on my own there at, I bring in Talent from all over the world. Well, impress me was to kind of very deep exploration of you. As an individual, how that informs your style as a project leader, and the idea of how responsible you are, as a professional from your experience, both inside and So
the project profession. What qualities do you make your students aware of? That makes for a successful project leader. Well, I've sometimes said, I'm very proud when my students that have been with us for two years. I meet them few years laters and they say, well, I mean, the course was very interesting, but I'm still kind of digesting all of the things that you touched upon, and I think it kind of Boils down to the idea that we are. Kind of, we are cultivating them.
We are not just teaching them method to deliver project objectives or things like that. We are really cultivating them to take a stand as a true professionals within Society, within the industries within government. So they are not only like people who are just asked to do and deliver but there are also people who Who can contribute and influence and transform. Let's say how things are done.
How we think about things and what what it constitutes to be professional and be a profession and what professionalism means and this has all kinds of implications for, I'm teaching them critical thinking ethical thinking creative thinking Earnest. I basically teach them also things that are usually only taught in in clinical education. Meaning how to deal with complicated people and demanding
human situations? Because that's kind of very much when things get complicated often untie cultural awareness how to respect people who are different, who think differently and I see when we when we are going through all of that in the program, it's stimulating bit. For some it's also very challenging sometimes because they want things to be just
simple. But I think was Einstein who said, let's make things as simple as possible but not simpler, you know, I think that's what that's a good reminder, you know. Yeah. When I came to, thank you, because I noticed how much construction was going on. I mean, they were just cranes. Everywhere and there are seems like a very exciting time for
projects. Could you give us an overview of what it's like in Reykjavik at the moment and the number of projects happening and and the demand for project professionals now I'm born 1966, and the Reykjavik and Iceland was very very different 1966 or when in my childhood from what you see. Now when I was growing up there were very few foreigners here.
The road that we drove to the south coast of Iceland that was a mutt wrote when I was a kid and if you see pictures from the 70s 80s from Reykjavik City, it's very Very it's a very it's like a small town, very few people on the streets kind of. But now it's this has transformed and it's in a major transformation, I started Society. So there's a, this immigration. So we need to really catch up with regards to infrastructure. I mean, we are 380,000 people, I
think, and I think we have now two million tourists a year. 10 years ago, they were maybe like, 200,000 something, Like that. I mean it has really taken off us modern society and so we are kind of catching up. We are building a new house. A new Mega project. That's the new University
hospital. They are building bridges, all around the country made when I was a kid, the you couldn't drive around the island because they were not pretty is everywhere and technological infrastructures Say internet, you have a, you have a fiber Connection in all households in Iceland. It's a very big island, but we are very few. So, yeah, and power plants and road construction, sand apartment houses. But I remember also, before 2008, they were also a lot of
cranes. And I, then we kind of some people said, well, hey, you should be careful if there is like all of those construction cranes, they know something. Is off. You know, you might be heading for disaster, kind of a thing, but the Reykjavik city is growing at a lot. So we really need to very strong demand for housing here. It's a very vibrant place and there is the many things going on. So the demand for project professionals must be high, who
are the people in your courses? And where do they end up going? They come from all sectors of society. I mean, we have We have Engineers who have been building power plants in in Iceland, aluminium smelters in Georgia or Aunt in the Russia and in Iran. And we have people who have been involved in geothermal Enterprises in Africa.
And in South America, we have people from an aviation, we have Educators, Teachers, Health Care Professionals it people, business people, if you have also actor Hours. And now they're actually two ballerinas that are kind of changing their careers. So on the they are very dedicated. Make excellent material for good product managers because they are very dedicated and very disciplined and it's interesting to see how they work. Do you detect a changing attitude towards project
management? It's something that is a big profession and attractive profession to consider. Now I kind of came into this field. When it was the notion of something specific called project management or professional product management
Kind of force gaining momentum. When I, when I entered the field, since then we have been really producing and certifying people with the knowledge and the skills and the competence to go out and prove themselves and to me until key and and our programs have been absolutely in the Forefront. And this now some other up starting to Provide education and project management as well. But but what's happening now is also that our students are coming back with a loaded with
experience. And so I think we are now at the threshold of Alaska and you've New Era and product management in Iceland where we have loads of people that know what project management is they It see themselves as Property Management professionals, and and now it's all its kind of harvest time when when we are really seeing the, the the flourishing of the profession in the, in the fields, or so to speak, or we need to kind of also be at the Forefront.
And that's why we have been constantly being making a deal. Judgments to the program and we are always looking for new or exploring new opportunities. I am almost to talk to you about something. I found fascinating when I was in Reykjavik, which is the exposure to the Icelandic mindset, which is very just do. It, can you can you tell us a bit about that? It was something we talked about a lot when I was there, but what's the phrase you have you
know, about getting stuff done? Because it is very much. Let's just get on with it. And how does that? How is that an advantaged when it comes to project management and then also what are the Advantages that need to be counted. Yeah, well I think when when you were here, I try to inject you with some ideas about how brilliant and bright. And we are, I mean in many case we are just like other people and there are certain things that are not so maybe mature, so to speak.
I mean, we are, we are still learning. We are sometimes not overly organized. We are sometimes a little bit ignorant. We are Lil Bit, sometimes too sure about ourselves that kind of the Islanders mentality. I mean, there is some kind of people are, you know, greedy and, you know, people are trying to get away with things like anywhere else I guess. But if we, if you look at the of the positive sides, I mean there are few things that I think really are good when it comes to
project management. I mean, you don't need to teach us to be Archie. I'll, I think we are very Iati. I'll we are also very very cell tile. We can if we we think it's not working, it's easy for us to turn around and explore new options. But that might also be because we have very small and there's a relatively much trust in like Social Capital trust in society. It must also be informed by the environment in which you live, even you live on volcanoes. That must inform the way you
think as well. Yeah. I mean that's why I plan to much when we you have to be like you have made plans, then there's an eruption and then there's a blizzard then there is this a lot. I mean, I was in London, London bonjour. I think I know obviously New York and all the train system in the UK is shut down. And I was surprised. It didn't feel like, you know, nothing to watch. We send our kids to school in blizzards, you know. So we are very adjustable. We are Very flexible.
We are, we are we can we have a lot of stamina for change? I would say we are curious. We are witty. I think in our own way, we are relatively. We are pretty respectful and very accommodating. I mean we will we will always try to help everyone. That all of those qualities can be really good in project management and the ability to just get on with. I think that was what impressed me as well.
That's right there phrase that you're asking about this this that that red dust separatist because you know people might say oh my God this is now this is going to be a this is a disaster you know, it would be awful in this doesn't work, you know you and we will say oh no the that path that this will be okay, come on, that kind of thing.
We will figure it out somehow. And I think that's I mean, like, Positive cited, its kind of optimism, but the downside is that it's like, you know, lack of planning sometimes and, and lack of willingness to comply to objectives or, you know, we just want to do it our way. I mean, we are independent people. We are like an independence. Here means to be that that you might, it basically means that you don't have to deal with anybody. You know, you're just doing things.
On your own in your own way and and highly highly self-reliant. That's right. Yeah, I'm resilient. And I mean, I mean you're involved with to actually talk to us a bit about the work, you do is DM the rescue service because that must reflect an awful lot on the kind of challenges of working in a night of living in Iceland as well. The athletic search and rescue services are volunteer. It's a big Association that is there like it's like clubs all
around the island. Island and we can be called out anytime and we go out and we just do our best to accommodate on be of help and it can be the farmers. It can be people running working in the facing Factory. So it can be any, Orchestra people, the carpenter the professor whomever. So we just try our best to help
and the help is for free. That's also quite Thing, it has been for free because we want people rather to call us rather than to be afraid of being being persecuted or having to deal with their insurances and things like that. We just want to let answer that kind of equality, that social what you say. It's a very, it's a very beautiful thing that, you know, we are not gonna leave you alone, we will try our best to help.
And I think that It compiles down into the project management, you know, we we try to accommodate, we try to figure it out, we try to all that attached to it, we will figure it out somehow, no matter how Bleak, it becomes it really, it will be okay. You know. I think that's the, I would, if I was in a crisis situation at work or in a mountain, then I definitely think I'd want. And I slander there to tell me that everything is going to be,
all right? I mean, I'm just thinking about the crisis that the crises that people might face a while. Work or just that situation when everything starts to go wrong, have you got any words of advice? If you suddenly find yourself in a crisis situation that that you can pass on from your work working, you know, not only teaching on the Masters but also from dealing with rescue situations, any advice you would pass on to people We'll have a
plan, that's very important. You should have a plan and and you should stick to the plan. As long as you decide. So, let's stick to plan a all the way until you decide to go to plan B. And then, if that doesn't work, you go to plan C. So be organized, have a plan but also be flexible, if it doesn't work, so that is one thing I would also say try to do what is interesting and gives.
Give you Joy, you know, rather than to you know, don't waste your life or your talent or whatever, in something that is miserable. So this is more general advice. I mean, the advice you give to your students to make a successful career in project management. So I mean do do do what you enjoy? So any other advice you would give for those setting out on a project management path. Be critical in.
In what you are asked to do try to understand well what you want to do, and when you are defining, what you want to do and then think of it from different angles and and really try to accumulate as many insights into it beforehand before you start them too. Plan and then, execute your plans. And this sometimes demands that you look out of your convention out of your box. So, to speak. And I do.
It also means that you try to be aware of biases, and noise, and, and politics and all the aspects that might be influencing. You without you realizing it. So I think that's something that I'm trying to make people be aware of because I think a professional has a very dire responsibility, not only to themselves but also to the team and the organization and to Society at large and even to Future Generations.
So, so put things into like an ethical perspective or into a think the Beep, when you're doing things, you know, and then all of the use, all the methods that are at your disposal disposal in from the discipline you, their property management is a is loaded with tools and techniques, but it's also a
philosophy of life. I would say, I mean, when you look around and you can actually see, oh, I can look at this as a project and there's a prototype are the supported here and And that has some implications you you want to Define and plan and execute and see things happen. And then you want to be able to finish it and move on and do something new. I think that's a very good way to look at live. Also, in general, speak to people rather than speak about
people. You know, try to always be encouraging rather than undermining be. Be kind and accommodating. Be open and listen, deeply, let others, teach you also, think of it this way. I mean, what you give out is what you get back if you if you are happy and and kind and you. That's what you get back and also be assertive in the in a constructive way, something like that. I mean it's not it's just wanted to advise not only did Only for project management for living
life in general. So thank you. I feel as though I've got a nice insight into the Icelandic mindset there and into the exciting times that are happening in Reykjavik at the moment. Was there anything else you wanted to add? I think the future for project management is very bright. I think it's actually the method or the philosophy that will prevail in the new era. That is a very living, very
Citing times. I mean, artificial intelligence technological, autonomy Sation the international cooperation between universities and in research something Industries and it's very living. Very, very exciting times but we don't know what it will mean to all of us.
And I think the profession that will be very capable of navigating this If people do things, right is the profession of product management because they will always be projects and there will always be problems that need to be solved with projects. They will always be innovations that need to be designed and implemented. I think I say I will do many of the cognitive skills better than most and many of the behavioural skills. But in essence, what does it constitute to be a human being?
And what does it constitute to be a mean to be a professional? I think that's. That's something that we should really are questions that we should really take to our hearts and try to answer in a creative way. That's a wonderful way to end our conversation today. Thank you. How could that was? So interesting, thank you for your time.
Thank you, too. Thanks again, take her for joining us and don't forget to look out for more episodes of the APM podcasts in to rate and review as wherever you get them from. We'd welcome you to get in touch with your comments feedback and suggestions by e-mailing us at a p.m. podcast at think publishing .co.uk. This podcast has been brought to you by APM to Charter body for the project profession. For more information on a p.m. visit, a p.m. Dot org.uk.