Hello and welcome to the APM podcast brought to you by the chartered body for the project profession. My name is Mike Hein and I'm the online editor of apm's project journal, and I'll be hosting today's episode. In 2020 to our podcast guests have shared their advice and experiences on everything from putting telescopes into space to discovering sunken ships at the bottom of the Antarctic.
Sea, As the year, draws to a close, we thought it would be worthwhile taking a look back at some of the lessons we have learned in 2022. So in this episode will be collating some of our favorite highlights from episodes. You may have missed earlier in the year, we've got insights from NASA, a former cabinet minister, and a BBC television presenter to share with you proof, If ever it was needed that the reach of projects and project management grows ever
wider. Before we kick off, we'd like to give a shout-out to you the listeners, thank you for your continued support throughout 2022, will be back in the new year, with much more content. So keep your eye out for future episodes wherever you get your podcasts. So, without further Ado, let's take a look back at some of the highlights of an action-packed 2022. One consistent theme within project management is change and how to bring people with you as a project leader.
In June, we published a podcast about the people side of change management, which featured Joe Stanford head of corporate portfolio office at health, education. England. As well as discussing the importance of role modeling and psychological safety Joe. Shared her advice on how to get buy-in from stakeholders to make change happen and explain why it is critical to start with, why it really all needs to be underpinned with?
Why are we doing it? And people will buy into a process, they won't buy into a, you know, a financial element or a particular, you know, way of doing. Doing something, you know, say, oh well, we need to do this differently. What they buy into is a sense of purpose, they buy into a cause, or a belief or a sense of belonging. And, and so, the starting point with yourself and with your team is, why, why are you doing this? What's what's the purpose of it? What's the aim of it?
What is it that you are going to achieve? Because people people will rally to a Was and I say yes, that's something. I believe in that something, and it's an emotional response. It's something a personal. And, and when you're starting out with this, you've got to have a really clear sense of why. Why is it important? Why is it going to make a difference? What's the the impact?
It's going to have both on the world on your customer base or what's the value to them and to you and doing it by setting the wire you You can bring people together to help to shape the how and the what and if you've got that ultimately that keeps you connected that, you have that ultimate cause that we're going to work on this. This is a really important
thing. This is why it helps you get past the individual conflicts that you might have where people are, wedded, pursue particular ways of working or particular, you know, what they want to do or particular ideas because if Can bring people back to the thing that joined them together in the first place, which is the, why are we doing this? It helps to get beyond the individual and keep people focused and therefore it becomes not a personal thing.
If your particular idea isn't followed or that particular way of working isn't going to be the one that we take. If you keep people focused on the Y and then you set your measures and outcomes linked to that, why? And how do we Ino. We've achieved that that's the thing for me that is really critical in terms of setting the team up to start with the Team Dynamics.
But also they're going to go out with conviction and with passion and with purpose when they talk to stakeholders and customers and the ends of users and they're going to take that passion and and commitments and in going to infect others with it, they're going to infuse that and that's what gets people to join in. That's what gets people. To go on the journey is that sense of of belief and belonging and wanting to be a part of something. Many of us have just celebrated Christmas 2022.
But last year December, the 25th is a particularly exciting day for scientists engineers and project professionals at Nasa, due to the long-awaited launch of the James Webb Space Telescope. The telescope gives Humanity, a new eye in the sky with infrared sensors, that will peer into the farthest reaches of the cosmos to observe. The universe is first galaxies reveal the birth of planets and stars and look for exoplanets with the potential for life.
Back in March the podcast, spoke to Bill Oaks project manager for the James Webb Space Telescope who is based at NASA's Goddard space flight center in Maryland USA. As well as giving us a behind the scenes. Look at what it takes to lead a team at Nasa. Bill shared his perspective and what makes a great project manager and gave advice on how to handle complex projects. Will you talk about project management?
Every project manager, whether you're within NASA or wherever you're probably working, you kind of have your own style and technique. And one of the things you need to do is to understand within that style and technique your strengths and weaknesses. There's none of us are perfect. So I cannot sit there and tell you I'm the perfect project manager. I got strengths across everything you need to need to recognize where your weaknesses are and then build upon it, you know?
I was a good engineer, and notice how I said was there are many project managers who thinks they're still the best engineer out there and then that takes away from your management skills and your ability to be a project manager. So, I learned a lot about, you know, you need to be a listen to people. I always tell folks. One of the number one things I say is you need to have a bartender's ear. Mark, on your listens, your you are the chief. Chief risk mitigation person on
the project. I mean, you may have Risk Managers and other Engineers but you are the one that makes those decisions at some point. What advice would you give to project? Managers of project leaders, around a hill, working on complex projects? What have been the main lessons? You've learned working on Project like this. Oh, we're closely with your team, you know, communication aspects of it. Listen to your team, find the folks that you really trust.
I mean, you need to be able to trust the folks that are working for you. Direct that you are your direct. Works and you build that just by communicating with them and trusting this the skill set that I have, but that also comes down to understanding the skills that they have. Not everybody is perfect for every job. If you find that somebody has been misplaced in a position, it doesn't mean you have to get rid of Martha project.
You may say, hey, there's something over here, the better suited for your skill set, get him involved with that, get them interested in that. And then you bring the another person into that job that may have the more The better skill set for that position. And that's one of the things I've talked about The Forecastle times.
You start out with a project organization but as you move through the life, cycle of a project, you're going to need the tweak that organization depending upon where you are in that life cycle. So we're sure you have the right, people in the right jobs that you have the right organizational structure for that phase of the project. So that's always important from a project managed to kind of
maybe once a year. Take a look at where you are with your organization and do. I need to make any changes from a Structure standpoint or moving some folks around to really take advantage of their skill sets. Moving from the world of science and technology to the UK public sector. Our next podcast highlight comes from the conversation between
former cabinet minister. The right honourable Justine Greening and a p.m. chief executive Professor, Adam bothersome Justine shared her experience as a senior minister in several government departments and reflected on how well understood, the project profession is within the higher ranks of the Civil Service. Since leaving government Justine has continued to be a strong advocate for social mobility and
her podcast interview explored. How the project profession fits into the goal of increasing social mobility in the UK. We highly recommend. You check out that episode in Full Do you think politicians and civil servants know enough about the project profession and evaluate can add to their careers? Not even remotely enough? No, it's crucial, because you've got to bear in mind for our
democratic system. You know, it works by having people elected and they are as it were lay people, they probably got a special ISM in some kind of very they worked in before Parliament, but then they're put into running departments and so, you know, often the challenge. Has you are literally running those departments.
And yet I was lucky in the sense that I'd worked in some bigger larger organizations as a finance person, I guess if you're in finance or project management you probably relatively numerator and you know what you're looking for in terms of how to check if things are on track and what management information you need. And I think there's a bit of a gap there. Definitely for politicians on the nuts and bolts of their own skill set.
Order to be successful. And then, I guess, within the Civil Service, the the sort of sexy part of civil service has been all the policy development when actually increasingly it really needs to shift to be much more who's great at delivering projects on the ground successfully because there's no point having the best policy in the world. If you can't deliver it, then it won't come to anything.
We've got some a p.m. members of course, who will be in some of those departments which are a bit behind the curve. Of, what advice would you give to them in terms of how they could help to shift the dial within their own Department? I think, I think it's having the consistent approach across departments on project development and delivery and and
speaking with one voice. So for example, I think the government Finance organization across government, had increasingly, learn to work collectively and did work. Collectively on what good look like, what good process look like. How to develop business cases. And, you know, it might all sound a bit Bonkers. You know, of course, you'd expect government and civil service, departments, to develop strong business cases, but that
isn't always the case. And as you said, Adams, some departments are better than others. I would actually say the best is best business cases I had were, when I was at the department for International Development, mainly because there was so much scrutiny on every single penny of spend actually that had led to The department really kicking the tires on absolutely everything before it was ever
signed off. By contrast when I went into education, you know, much less business case development per se. But a real need for it.
Because if you're going to compete, for example, with the department for transport on investment saying, pupil referral units, and you want that investment and you're making the case, it should go into that rather than Fixing more potholes, then you do need a business case approach, that's really bolted down and it's what I always expected to see as a finance person and if you don't have that business case and this is what we really did in differed, you haven't really
ever got that parameter that that kind of game plan against which to then compare progress and you know it's absolutely crucial. If you're going to have strong project management that the project itself is obviously spect up. Well at the very very Very beginning. We are always looking to interview guests, who can provide a fresh perspective on the world of projects and project management. So, we were delighted this year to secure an interview with
veteran journalist. Evan, Davis presenter of BBC fours, daily news program, p.m., and former main presenter of news night and the today, programme Evan is also well known as the presenter of Dragons Den. And on radio for he hosts a weekly business discussion program called the bottom line in his podcast. Interview. Evan gave an informed outsider's perspective on the importance of projects to the economic political and cultural life of a country.
He is talking about how major projects are perceived and the reputation of the profession among the general public. I think we should demand of the people planning projects that they have a high bar for public value. That we do not want to waste construction, scarce construction, resources, public money, and the design, and other capabilities of our country on white elephants.
So we should be demanding and, and that means cost benefit analyses and all the conventional tools of, you know, Raisa. Love projects are absolutely important to society. Can't give up on those. And the treasury is right to say to people we're not just going to throw money at stuff, because it looks great. And they're like, we need to have some vision for the shape of the nation and sometimes the cost benefit analysis adding up the time Savings of the, the kind of the existing customers
on a train. For example, may not capture the benefits of something, a hundred years hence or 50 years. Hence, I think you, you have to be careful about being to accountants. Focused on it. He's project managers are fully understood and fully appreciated in this country, or do you think they just get it in the neck? No I don't think project managers have a bad image. I don't think the public have a very clear idea project
managers. I think what happens is the public gets annoyed when they see crossrail was meant to open in 2018 and is opening 2022. And so that's that the - but The truth is the public Swoon over some of the great achievements of the project managers and they love it when they go.
Right. And I think what you really see out there is a kind of a complex amalgam of different feelings and Views projects, we hate it. When they're being built and there's disruption we love it. When we walk through the Swanky new Railway stapling or travel on the fancy new train. So I broadly speaking, I I don't think they do have a bad image
project managers. And in, as far as it's a complicated Love/Hate relationship, as I think it is, I think probably deserved, you know, the public, the public are entitled to say. You said this would be delivered and it wasn't. And, and we were a bit fed up with that. One major story from this year with the long delayed opening of London's Elizabeth line,
otherwise known as crossrail. As one of the largest Transportation programs anywhere in the world, crossrail had a high profile from the outset but often found itself in the headlines for the wrong reasons. Mark wild took over as CEO in 2018 as a time of Highly publicized budget and deadline overruns but successfully steered the program to its much celebrated opening this year before stepping down. Having successfully turned around such a complex and
fraught program. Mark was ideally placed to tell the APM podcast, why he thinks so many major programs are late and over budget. Here he is talking to project Journal. Contributor Andrew Saunders. Is it inevitable that big projects are always be late and over budget contemporary perspective? If you look at the research from Oxford, particularly you will find that. Yes, the vast majority of major programs run the world. Are they doing over budget?
I think three big things are happening in the world now that are really significant in major programs. Firstly, the getting bigger cross real used to be the biggest in Europe, and the fifth biggest in the world now. Cross real wouldn't get in the top 10 globally and it wouldn't get The top three in Europe, so projects, getting bigger, there is a massive rise of digitization massively. And of course, there's a huge drive to NetZero.
Now. To me, those Dynamics on top of a situation that you've pointed out that they're all laid anywhere, really calls to change about how you manage these programs because I think they are so big and complex. Now, a new approach that the kind of the big learning, which we can get onto out across for others. Maybe he's in your approach, but to your point, yeah, every major A program in the world seems to have problems.
Fundamental lesson across. Rome was setting a singular end date and quite a visible Public Funding envelope. They said December 18 and fourteen point eight billion years in advance and made that very very public. The big learning Ida crossrail is do not set singular, and dates and mmm love. Think about more windows of uncertainty. That concludes our Roundup of the year's highlights, but of course, there are many more powerful lessons for project Professionals in our back,
catalog of podcasts. So, why not go back and have a listen over this festive? Period. We also want to hear your stories. What did you learn in 2022 and what goals and challenges are you anticipating in 2023, we're always Keen to hear your thoughts at a p.m. podcast at think publishing .co.uk. If you've enjoyed the content, we put out this year, please leave us a review wherever you, get your podcasts.
Thank you for your continued support and we look forward to bringing you more episodes in 2023. This podcast has been brought to you by APM the chartered body for the project profession. Find out more at a p.m. to org.uk. At Association for project management. We know your most important project is your career but as a project manager, it's not always easy to make project me happen. That's where our membership can
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