OCD and Comedy

from my personal life really stands out to me. As you know what, I do want people to specifically hear us chat and my friend Andy Kindler, today's guest, had reached out to me when this podcast came out and he was so excited about it. He loved it. I'm saying it in the past tense. I think he still loves it. And I've actually always wanted to have Andy on the show, but just we're in different time zones

now and scheduling can be tough. So he is finally on the podcast and talking to me about O c D. Now, this episode is a little different. There's a lot of references within the episode that I will explain up front that might help you fully understand more what we're talking about.

You know, this isn't your typical episode where some neurologist is leading me through what happens in the brain when you have O c D. But what I think is really helpful about my chat with Andy is that he's giving me some real time uh insight into his brain as he's thinking his thoughts while we're actually recording the podcast. He's telling me what's going through his head and what, you know, kind of what the O c D spiral

is at the moment, and it's really really fascinating. And then we talked about how he didn't get into therapy until he was sixty years old and what it was like to live that long. I guess undiagnosed. Sorry, Andy, if you're listening, God, he's old to be undiagnosed, and

what that really means. You know, when you are not diagnosed with something, but you are doing all the behaviors of someone with O c D or someone with a d h D, At what point does it just become part of you and you don't even think of it as I think something's wrong here. You don't even know you just because you know, we never get to jump into anyone else's skin and see what it's like to

walk around the world as them. And so a lot of times people that have something that's undiagnosed, it's not as if they secretly know they have something that needs to be diagnosed. A lot of times it's like, oh, I'm just bad something's wrong with me. But you know, so things that I will explain to you about what

Andy and I are talking about. What I thought was very interesting about chatting with Andy is there can be this mythology about comedians, and I feel like in the last five years there's been this real media obsession and worship of comedians, which to me is very annoying because everyone thinks they have their quick analysis, Oh, comedians are the sad clowns of the world, And sure, but isn't

everybody a sad clown in a way? Isn't everybody showing up to work acting basically a little different than you would say the day that you're laying in bed thinking, oh my god, I can't get up today. You know, I think there's a mythology that a lot of comedians are making up for a lack of attention or sad childhood by making others laugh and if there's any pathology to comedy as it relates to our past or our present,

it's just it's less about making people laugh. Honestly, I think on a deep I'm talking on a deep the deepest level that isn't the subconscious. It's about controlling a situation. You know, when you're on stage tech Nickelly, nobody's talking back to you. You're not engaging in an intimate conversation. You're controlling the room. You're actually talking and no one else is allowed to talk. You are making people have an involuntary reaction by laughing. You are kind of living

in the moment because you are taking risks. They might not laugh, they might throw something at you. And in a weird way, I know for myself and a lot of other comedians you have O c D or a d h D or depression anxiety. You're so in the moment on stage as a comedian, it's very hard to have your brain doing something else in the background while

you're speaking and moving your body around. And it's one of the only times for me that I can so effortlessly have literally no thoughts in my head except exactly what I'm doing and thinking, and it can be this enormous, almost relaxed feeling when I get off stage, and it can honestly be overwhelming after I get off stage, because it's almost like, uh, for me, I don't want to go out with the fans after shows and party. I've never done that because after I'm done talking for an hour.

First of all, I'm done talking, but I've been in such a mood um that I talked about actually in the first episode with Dr jud It's a flow state, which can be almost if you want to look at it as a spiritual experience. If you want to look at it as uh, you've almost done a form of mindfulness. But I truly have had an uninterrupted one hour without my bullshit running in my brain at least as far as I can hear it, and then it all comes

rushing back. When you get off stage, right, you're not You're not a focused anymore on something, and so that's when I just want to decompress, get back to the sensations of being in my body, being in my own mind, and just go back to the hotel room and watch

some h G TV. But I'm saying all that to say, what was fascinating about talking to Andy about having O c D while doing stand up comedy, is that as someone who's a fan of his work, Yes, I guess I could see that there was like there was some O c D tendencies in the way he did stand up, because he does this incredible, very specific thing where he deconstructs stand up as a medium itself, and he deconstructs his own stand up, his own performance, how the audience

is perceiving him, how that joke went, Why didn't he work harder on it. It's this constant and just fast paced ability to analyze every single thing in the room going on and going on in his head. And it's kind of the opposite of how I sometimes feel on stage, which is a little checked out. But he is alert and aware. But it must be overwhelming at times, right, You know for me that when I think of that, I go, oh God, I don't want to be that

aware when I'm on stage. And so, in a way, unlike the sad clown trajectory, if someone has O c D in a weird way, the way that I see it, the ability to be doing something and be constantly worrying became a style that came very easily to Andy for comedy. So, yes, like our pathologies do kind of define how we perform on stage in a way, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes

they just there's they just totally don't. But so I was interested in talking to Andy about how the O c D affected his comedy and that sense of wait, if I get help, will I lose my magic? And the answer is no, because the thing that is kind of informing your style can also really take you down

in other ways. And we get into that too. We kind of talk about that, that social media anxiety and enacting out our anxiety disorders on social media, even if we think we're doing it for the reasons we're fighting injustices all over the world, you know. But so just to get into we reference something in this interview called the Montreal Festival. So there is a giant comedy festival in Montreal, Canada, every year every July. It's been going

on for decades and it is a big deal. I think it's less of a big deal now than it used to be. But in the heyday of the eighties and nineties, when every single television executive went and people would get off stage and they'd get you know, a million dollar TV deal. It was a really big, big thing.

It's still a big deal, And that the entire comedy entertainment industry descends upon Montreal, and you really cannot have a bad set up there because there will be agents and managers and TV executives and this, and I mean, and then people gossips, so you you can't screw up when you're there. And the festival last for weeks and weeks, and it's international. And Andy has been doing something there for twenty five years called the State of the Industry and it's like a take off of you know, the

State of the Union address. And he gets up in front of hundreds and hundreds of people and he makes jokes about the comedy industry. So you know, if there's a new batch of TV shows coming out that year, he'll make fun of it. He'll make fun of the most popular comedians. It's sort of the point is that it's not a roast like you've seen those shows where comedians it's just him up there, and it is you know,

he is roasting people, I guess. But what's so interesting about his State of the Industry address every year is that you don't want to be in it. You know, and there's a lot of people who are in it that can get really offended that if they're mentioned, even though Andy's punching up. They're the richest comedians, they're the

most famous, but sometimes they're the most sensitive. And Andy, because of his o c D over the years that I didn't really know he was struggling with, was having a really hard time with his State of the Industry address in the sense that he wanted to make fun of certain comedians that we're having sexual assault scandals and who were maybe you know, racist or something like that, and he felt there was it was all getting mixed up in his mind because part of his o c

D is is um, well he'll explain it, but it would get mixed up in his mind as but I'm right about this and and so it was like it went from like just making silly jokes about people to like, I have to change the world with the speech, or I have to really prove that I'm right and that I'm allowed to say bad things about this person because they've done terrible things. And he just said that was where the o c D was kind of coming to a head. So if you hear us mentioned that now

you'll know what it is. So let's just get into it. If you're a fan of comedy, I think you will love the kind of insidery stuff about this episode, UM and learning what it's like to do a job that's all about using your head and your words and what your head is really doing kind of in the background or your mind. I guess your head. I'm no, I'm not a neural neuroscientist anyway. My guest today is UM comedian Andy Kendler. He has appeared a billion times on

Everybody Loves Raymond. He has made dozens and dozens of appearances on Late Show with David Letterman. He is more currently on Bob's Burgers. He has a bunch of comedy albums. His latest album called Hence the Humor, came out in and he is the co host of a podcast called Thought Spiral with j Elvis Weinstein. And you can get that anywhere that you get podcasts if you want to hear more thoughts spirally. But for now, enjoy this Thought

Spiral with my guest, Andy Kibler. Yeah. Okay, so I hear this garbage truck outside right, So all I think about is I can feel the anxiety starting. Because if there's a sound that's extra, that's my fault. I've already accepted that that's my fault. And because my mother. This is a great beginning, because I love when people give me real time examples of how their anxiety is manifesting. So let's begin. Well, you guards you hear the garbage truck outside now, which by the way, I don't hear.

And instead of thinking, oh that sucks, I hate that, I hope it's not going to ruin the audio, because I, you know, I want to sound good. You go to this place where God, I would have to say, it's not even so much of a intellectual thought as it is like a feeling, as it is almost like a knowledge even though you're wrong, that it's your fault. You're

bad somehow because the truck is going by. And had I not had years of therapy, which I have had, and as I have told you before, I was the oldest Jew to enter therapy in the history of therapy. I think I entered therapy almost when I was turning sixty. Gen that's a shonda or something like that. I don't. I think it's a shame, it's a it's another under scord, all the under schords made what are you gonna do?

What can you do? It's not it's nonsense. Okay, So let's take it back to the oldest jew in therapy to ever have entered therapy, which I should call this episode. I never knew what I never knew that I had another. I never knew consciously that I was taking fault for things. I just felt horrible. But I was saying, I've been listening to your shows, listening to the show with a man just turn. I'm just I'm not just trying to

prove on, but I'm I'm I'm with but um. And I was thinking about like this feeling I had, which is almost like the Nazis are almost always going I have this feeling my whole life that the Nazis are about to knock on the door or I'm on LSD which I often wasn't college, and my parents are going to call from the airport Auntie wore in town. We're coming up. And this is what I had as a panic my whole life. I didn't realize until therapy. I didn't was not able to realize and put it all

together because my father kept saying all those years. Your mother has been a therapy for thirty years, and what what did you learn? Nothing? So I had all these terrible things against therapy, but once I've got into therapy, I could identify that that's what's going on when the sounds outside. You know, that's so fascinating. Because you said so much in that small sentence. You know, people might go, oh, the acid things funny, Oh the Nazi thing, that's funny.

But when it's really happening in your head, you try to joke and you can't necessarily like stop and tell everyone what you're thinking. So you, so you are a person, comes up with coping mechanisms to tamp it down or try to cover it up, or try to change the subject in your brain, and it might result in, I don't know, shutting down emotionally or telling jokes or whatever

it is. But when those coping mechanisms hims are things we do a lot for our anxiety, then they become like part of what we do all the time, and then you don't know what possibly therapy could help with and what it couldn't because you don't know what's the illness and what's you right And also more complicated than that. My particular case was that my father, my father was

my hero. I loved my father. My mother was severe and my mom mom mother and father were both dead, dead, And I don't say like that casually, uh to get a shock value out of them, just saying that no one should be concerned, you would be, only you would be. Nothing came out about my parents until after they were dead, and that's the way it should be. Totally no. But I mean, uh, so I'm saying this and I and I also I'm resolving all the stuff you do in therapy,

which is they did in a lot of ways. They did absolutely the best they could. But my father was the only sunshine because he was so hilarious, the funniest person I ever met, funny every day. My mother was severe, really severely depressed, and so I did not have a mother mirroring situation, or so I'm wondering because I've heard Howard Stern talk about this, and I've heard Stephen Colbert talk about this. They had very depressed mothers, and being funny was not a way to get attention. It was

to literally cheer their mother up. They felt very responsible for their mother's happiness, and they learned the skill of being funny. And I'm wondering if that's you or if maybe your dad was doing that and that's why he was so good at being funny because he had this you know person he maybe felt responsible for. I don't even think he would consciously know he's doing it. Maybe you didn't either, But does that resonate at all? Yeah, I mean he was funny. Um, he was funny. You know.

Here's the thing that's so amazing that people need to know, which is very hard to convey on the show like this or in any situation. Right now, I'm feeling a lot of ang anxiety and I feel but not like anxiety, like a panic attack thing, because I mean many people have had pan attacks, have had a similar background with it. When I was twenty one or eighteen or nineteen, when the first half I literally thought I was gonna die, I was on a boss, I was looking around my

nobody had prepared me for it. Uh, And I had those, but mostly and then I've had those have recurred, but not as much as the general sense of anxiety all the way through, you know, and my father the humor must be there or in the family all the way back. I don't know. It's like you know what, Jed, it's probably Jewish and from the Northeast. I really believe that it's being part of the press group. Thank god I

was part of the press group. Yeah. And my father was funny and he was so so he was the savior of the house and he was in that way. But my mother was. I couldn't hear her up because she was and my mother has a great says you were. I loved my mother and I would bring her into my act does to the things she said. But she wasn't trying to be funny, like Andy, you live in California, how are the fajitas? You know? But she wasn't funny

on a day to day basis. She was very depressed on a day to day basis, especially early in her life, when I think, because I talked to my therapist about this, that she even almost she was extremely depressed. She was thinking she was hearing voices, but I don't think they were in her case. I think it wasn't. My Savage explained sometimes severe depression can and then later aren't you got Parkinson's? And she did hear voices, which everybody does on Parkinson's or many people do. She was, but but

it was it wasn't that cute. As I got older, it could be cute making fun of her, and then the comedy definitely helped, and being funny helped. But in the early childhood it was all my dad for the funny stuff. But I wonder if you looked up to him and said, like, Wow, that's the man in the house who's like trying to help the environment. I'm going to emmiline him. I was the youngest too, so I was trying to avoid all kinds of problems that my brother and just went through. Yeah, well, let's take it

all back. So I want to start with your diagnosis. You said a little while ago, different than panic, but you had even anxiety. Now on this podcast, now what is why? And what does it feel like and and all that. Okay, what it feels like is that you hear that right now? You don't, don't, okay, what it is? What it is is that here's what I should have done.

I should have known that on Tuesday or afternoon at three they through the trees for the people, and I should have called you beforehand, and I should have said I have fouled jen and securing a studio. So no, I would have said to the podcast anyway, because we really can't hear it, and the producers clean up the audio, and I'm in a new building and there's like they're always drilling. Know, it's fine, you can't hear it. Yeah, So the the anxiety now is in therapy, in life.

At every moment, I completely forget what I've just Now they've taken out some kind of a mixing tool. They are actually banging metal against metal cans out there, and I'm almost upset that we can't hear it, because I think that would be so funny, but we really can't. But the thing is, you know, the good news is

is that I unlike a normal conversation. You know, I have a plan, and I'm i'm I'm steering places, so I have I know, you're so great, so great I should we should react because I have to remember everything you say. You if you have trouble with that, this is the one time it doesn't matter. So there's that. If that helps. Okay, Okay, that really helped. But my character,

I'm your pilot, so here we go. Now tell me your diagnosis and we'll work back from there, you have O c D and what else A D A D. Well, I don't really understand. One of the things that I'm buying disease is uh, uh or whatever you wanna call it, that I um the A D H D uh and someone the d h D means that it's not I don't know what the hyperactivity stuff means. All I know is that I have a serious A d D. So I don't know it's like even the fact that they

introduced the hyperactivity into it. I don't And then my mind starts to break down. So I have So I have a d H D and I have a really bad O c D. And the O c D was really really bad. Uh. In my twenties, when I came out to l A, I thought I had hit somebody in my car, and I would hear the sound and then I would drive around the block and then I would go, I bet they crawled into the bushes because I've hit them, and I look for them. You know.

I wouldn't get out of the car, but I would just ride all day with the horrible fear that I killed someone in the car. And it seemed totally crazy. Now, can I ask you, how did you actually hit something? And or no you you hadn't felt anything hit your car? Right? I think it it was like you do hit things in the car. You you hit a curb, or you

hit this or you yeah, okay, I see. So you you went in your head and went it was a person and now they're dying and it's my fault, right, So I like the I put the jokes in my act about how you know I would call the police station. Has anybody reported that there were tiny people walking around the street and that has anyone are there tiny people? And have I hit? You? Know? It So funny about that though that I want to take apart is you I get the feeling. It's so real and it's driving

you crazy. You're driving around, but you don't get out of the car. So it's like something there tells me that the person doesn't really think they hit someone, right, No, no, no, absolutely right, because that's the other part of it. But unlike when someone is h O c D about washing, which I don't have my O c D. I didn't think it was O c D. I thought it was a concern that maybe I hit somebody in the car. And even though I knew it was kind of crazy. And when I went to a free clinic because that's

all I could afford. The one it was seventy or eight maybe, and she said she it doesn't seem like a good time for mental health. I mean, you say you didn't start therapy till you were sixty, but you probably got into the best time. Except ironically, if that's the right use of this. My mother told me for what I have. She told me back in I could

get interesting. But I wasn't listening to her because I was still in that crazy That therapy was crazy from my father, of course, and how could you not he was such a huge influence. And so okay, so you go tell someone at the free clinic and they say what they say, I don't know what you're saying. I have to check with the supervisor. I'm not kidding you. They said they had to check with the supervisor. Now, they were also a training you know, the free they

were a training person too. But that's how little anyone else heard you say to them. I'm doing this thing. I'm driving around, you know, I think I hit someone, but I think it's O c D. Did you use the term O c D? No, no, no, I don't think this term was was. I always get in trouble when I tried to claim something because maybe it was being used, but there was nothing nobody identified and O c D, or if they did, had made its way

to you yet, and at least this one. It was more like your warrior, you're a constant worry you can't stop worrying. It was more like that with my they used to call me the worry war and the family. I used to write letters from camp. When I was eight years old. They sent me away a camp for two months, which they should have been arrested for. But I would send these letters saying, don't forget to pick me up. Don't you know you're gonna forget to pick

me up? So that was based on the fact that I knew as from a very very young age, of my parents. They were not good with where's our kids? You know, we'll be right back. But you know what's so interesting about O c D obsessive compulsive disorder. I feel like the average person does not realize a compulsion means that you mostly cannot control it. You have to do it dot dot dot or else another thing you believe terrible is going to happen, and you are trying.

That is your coping mechanism is the compulsion. If I don't keep driving around, then blah blah, terrible things. You are soothing yourself with the compulsion. And that's what people don't understand about mental illnesses. We are taking care of ourselves in those moments the best and only way we know how. It is a compulsion. That's what makes it a disorder that a doctor has to help you with, our psychologist has to help you with. As opposed to

your worrying, you weren't worrying. You were compulsively whatever you were doing, right, And that's the downside of the minimizing of the disease or and also the downside of the fact that everyone is that in a certain way. We're all on a continuum. So I do believe everybody has a d D parts of their brain, right, everybody has quote O c D tendencies. But the danger is if you just look at it like, oh, well, I'm mostly because people will say that all the time, Oh I'm

most c D. Two. No you're not. You just like to wash a lot, you know, Yeah, you like to wash your hands a lot or you organize your pens nicely. That's not O C D. O C D is like, uh, I'm thinking, you're well, I don't have this one, but thinking you can never get your hands clean. Although I did come to the absolute epiphany the other week that I will never think the dishes are clean enough, even though I don't compulsively, I'll never think they're clean enough

no matter what method I use. If I use the air dry method, which is supposed to be the method, some dart dirt will get on the dishes as their air drying. If I use the towel method to dry the dishes, that transfers germs onto the plate bother either or can you just go so with that? Now? I'm letting Now, I'm letting it go because used to be I couldn't get out of the feeling until I thought

I had completed it. I'm getting better, right going, I really don't, because my therapist helped me, really when I first went to her, really go down the road of what could happen? Yes, so like I no longer believe that the fact that I've had so many problems getting my taxes in even though they owe me money, I no longer believe I'm going to go to jail. Because

of that, That's great. I no longer believe I'm a terrible person because you know what's so interesting too, is that what you said that that helped me with a lot of my anxiety recovery. Go down the rabbit hole of what's the worst that could happen? And sometimes you do get to a place that's like, well yes sometimes you know, for me, if it was fear flying, well yes, I could die in a plane crash. And at a certain point the psychiatrist I had or had I had

him for twenty years. He was the one that prescribed medication. He's in this like Hawaiian shirt and he has an office in Hawaiian went in Pasadena, and he's like the sixty five year old guy, white hair, and he's very chill,

you know, but he is his stuff. But he was taking me down the rabbit hole of what's the worst that could happen, and he let me go all the way to the plane could crash and I could die, and he goes in at that point, is the plane's crashing, can you think to yourself, I've had a good life. And I was like I am painting you for this, But he's not He's not wrong, right, Like, Okay, let

me put it this way. I would guess that upset because I don't know a lot about O c D. So I'm gonna try to guess now that obsessive compulsive disordered people think that they're imagining the worst thing that could happen, but they're doing it in a weird, disordered way that gives them control over the worst thing that could possibly happen. But if you really said and went and felt the feelings of different outcomes that could happen,

you can't handle that without professional help. So you haven't been doing that right, right, Well, what happens is just what what what happens is is that what I didn't realize was that when I lost the thread, when it became a thought into an obsession, it would cause a

resulting doom in my stomach that was not real. Just like me thinking that when I that that Susan when she gives me advice about cleaning, you know, when you clean the house game, just that she's saying, she's not saying you're a horrible, disgusting pig who is not capable of cleaning properly. That's what I'm saying to myself. So it's like, you know, once you realize that, just like you've been talking on your show that you're uh that you may think you're gonna die, but you're not going

to die. Most likely you're not gonna die. You may think you're gonna get arrested, but you're not. And then to think that the prison is the compulsion, and that when you actually are able to then stop yourself before you go down. We call it like popping bubbles from my method. Love God, it's a great image too. Yeah, comes up? Are you sure you didn't like? Like? The

thing for me? Since I've been watching True crime is I actually believe that I uh, I'm gonna be one of these people who searches for how do you how was be the best way to kill your life? If the poison doesn't work, I've got try killing my life twelve. Oh No, that's not what I'm scared of. I'm scared of I watched a True crime thing about strangulation, So then I google strangulation, right, why would he be googling scar of strangulating? That's what I do, and I don't

stop it. It can go on forever, and I'm able to stop it. So so in other words, like you're worried that with the FBI or something, they're gonna find your search and you're gonna get put in prison for the murder of someone you didn't murder kind of thing or just that's exactly what it is. It's like, I know I didn't murder someone, but why would I? But

but why am I still talking about it? And and so you're gonna So it's almost like because my parents, my mom and dad were terrible about you better not get in trouble when I was when I was want to see hair in New York City and n at the age of twelve, I got mugged, held up with a knife, hit in the store. I could not call my parents. We had to call my friends. Now I

had a similar thing that parents. You know, I I got in trouble a couple of times, and I was so afraid to tell my parents because I just don't want to deal with the reaction. And it's not like they were gonna hit me or something. I just I don't know. I was like afraid of conflict or being yelled at. And but they were fairly reasonable that they were pretty emotionally unhinged if I got in trouble. That's

why I didn't get in trouble. But what it felt like to me at the time was if I can guess is probably unconsciously it felt like if I can't call them because I did something wrong or got into trouble that wasn't even my fault, but you know, maybe I could have had my head about me better. Um. They only they don't add up the twelve years of my life where I wasn't doing that, where I was like being awesome. It's like that moment is who I am suddenly? Um, instead of I'm I'm basically a good

kid who's smart, but I fucked. That's similar, That's very similar. I think you felt you were raw like I took you know, I was. I was thirty years old. I dated this woman who was going to Columbia and I went and uh someone the car broke down. I called my father's screaming at me, how did you? Why did you take the car there? What do you do? It's like, and that's the and I remember now on therapy, I

was like, you are thirty when that happened. Yes, what's funny, you know, and I love I love my dad, and I love even love of course, and of course we know they're not listening. I mean, and it's not just because they're dead. They probably do have access to podcasts. I mean, you know they're in another thank you yeah kidding. Oh I think that well, that that got in there, Jed. It's so funny though, because I think of my parents who were yellers. They're kind of like they remind me

the Castanzas on Seinfeld. You know, just everything is a huge reaction, and and I look at it now and I don't take it personally. I go, my god, look at their anxiety at handling anything. You know. My dad especially, he's kind of hard to hearing. So if he hears my mom and I yelling and we're not yelling at each other, we're just yelling room to room, like, hey, Mom, do you want to watch that show later? He'll go, how you guys yeas yelling at each other about and

he'll start screaming about how we're yelling. And I'm like, we're not emotionally yelling, we're talking loud, but you're hard of hearing. And it's like, funny, but it really is if you want to over analyze it or just analyze it. He's he's anxious. He's anxious. I can't hear. Is there a problem, you know, whatever? Whatever? Um, he's anxious, not mad, you know. And that's where I learned all my life skills from, is these people that kind of had anxious

reactions to things. And I'm still undoing it. But in other words, my point is that all these little issues that we learned as kids, and all the anxiety comes out in our relationships with friends, husband's wife, and it's a lot of work. And it's interesting that, like we it takes so long to find out what's wrong. Like, it's not a conflict you have with authority. If it happens at work, it's not necessarily a love issue. If it happens in relationships, it's just fucking anxiety either O

C D eight. You know. So let's get back to something you said. You said a thought can turn into an obsession. Now I'm assuming before therapy you probably in most people would not notice when that's happening. Can you notice it now? Can you go, oh, I have to stop this thought from becoming an obsession. And if you can what do you do? Well, I'll tell you exactly what I'll tell you. Luckily, predictably, it's only certain areas that it comes up. It. So I'll give you one

of my big areas. Um give you even the example of protect because I don't think it has anything to do with our relationship. Julius Wheeney is like very much of an atheist, and she's an atheist, and so I'm very discussed. I very get very very disgusted by new atheism and by and and and have gotten so many arguments on line about people. To me, it's like my mother was converted to a Quaker. It was the most

the best thing that she ever did. She didn't like being Jewish, and and she got so much out of being Quaker. So I I get into this part where I'm arguing with Julius Sweeney in my head, not online. I've had argued with her before in line or people who are It always is like I really respect her, She's very talented, and then she has this point of view. And then what happens is I realized I'm absolutely playing

the relationship with my father. Because my father was so intelligent and when I was like twelve or thirteen, and I I was like into hypnotism or whatever. He was like really arguing with me about any beliefs that I had, not just in God, but just uh, like in the ability. Let's say, uh, you know, you know how like women's mimes know when someone died. You know. It's like I still think we do know people have that sense they know.

But my father was so down on that, and I took it that to mean that I'm not as smart as him, and I'm not smart enough. And if I was smarter, I would be an atheist because I was accepted that that was the logical thing. All my friends were doing it, and uh, and I hate. But on the other hand, I hate and so all these people who these new atheists and all these people like I'm trying to argue with Julie about but it's not Julia anymore.

It's arguing with my father. It's like when it gets to rage inside me, I absolutely know it's my problem. And I think that's an area where I've had problems online with it. I've had to uh, I had to and what I would say, it's like Trulie, it doesn't control what I think. My father doesn't control what I think. I'm not mad at Julia. I'm mad at my father, but I'm not even mad at him. I'm mad at

what happened, the process of thinking you're stupid. It's just like it happens like it's like if you hear something like Brett Butler always like or other comics from the South, they're always afraid to be perceived is not that as not as bright least from the South, which is a ridiculous perception, but it affects you. And that the the the idea that I'm not quite as smart as these eighties brings the rage. And then I realized I have to let that go. But what I love is rage.

Once it becomes rage, you know that it's your problem, and a k a that takes it from thought to obsession. And then here's the other thing too, Like I really do hate Bill Maher. I really do hate a lot of the Adam Carolla. I mean, I'm not saying I hate. I'm not gonna go, you know, to war with them, but I really hate what they're saying. I hate that they're making people, that they're feeding into Islamophobia, and I

hate all that. So it's not even so it's this actually has changed me in terms of how I do comedy too, because I used to feel that everything I said about these people had to be justified. If I hated Louis c K, it had to be justified. So I don't want to get to the point where I go, oh, no, I like what he's saying. I like that what you know, I hate it. But but if I'm online arguing about it for three days, which tends to happen, not as

much anymore. But that's because I believe that unless they change, I will be destroyed or I won't be happy. And and it's not even like worrying about gay people are worrying about Islamophobic people. It's more like getting back into that relationship where you feel stupid or you feel like another example of my life. And I hate to go on on, but there's a part of my life where, until I took therapy, I used to think that I

was a coward because I couldn't fight. And when I was in in fourth grade, this kid would say I'm gonna be dressed to day at three o'clock, and he did this on a subsequent amount of day. So when My first jokes came from this was like, no, no, no, I'm not making an appointment to get my ass kicked. You know what I'm saying, like, uh oh, let me let me look at I'm getting my strangle to forty five. Let's put that back. It's like it was the most

horrifying feeling in the world. Two know that I couldn't fight and would not go to another area. I felt nothing but shame about that, Like I wasn't a man. That's how ridiculous this was. Until I took therapy, until I realized that you're not supposed to fight. And that's the fact that I that I watched Billy Jack doesn't mean I go up to a guy and go, you know, I'm gonna take my foot and put it on this

side of your head. And I mean that's and I remembered then that when I was twelve, I had a counselor was very abusive, really abusive, and I told my father and visiting day about it, and then my father said something to the guy like, hey, could you go go easy on my son? And then when he left the council, Yeah, your father talked to me. He even

gave me a tip ha ha ha. And what I learned from that was that the only solution was to fight, which I couldn't do, so I'm doomed or and that was because there was no solution, because I had gone to the best of what I could do. Tell my father about it, and it was hopeless. And I used to understand. I used to think the hopeless thing was I can't go up to that guy and punch him. But then I realized, no, the hopeless thing was thinking.

And I took sixteen years of taekwondo, which I'm very happy I took, but but letting go of the fact that you're not supposed to knock on your neighbors your neighborhood banging your ceiling, not supposed to go knock on his door and go stop banging on my ceiling. And I always thought I was a coward for not doing it, so what I thought I should be and my image of being a small person, everyone's up there and they're

banging on you. It's became a real part of me, you know, and it becomes who you just this like side thing you have called O c D or anxiety, like you are this shame or this you are it. It's so hard, and the desire to overcome it is where the pain is. It's not. I used to think it was like, well, you don't like it because you don't want to get punched in the face. True, we don't.

We don't want to get punch in the face. But since I've let go of the feeling that the solution will ever that I'm a coward because I'm not going to up the anti on fights and that congratulations Andy for doing so well. You know it's changed my life. We'll continue the interview on the flip side of a quick message from our sponsors back to this whole thing with like you know, um Twitter and and and the

guy at the counselor. It's like, I don't know if you relate to this, but I when I'm in my anxiety and I don't have O c D, but I wonder if this is an O c D tendency, I get obsessed with justice and I need it and I need it now. And and that's why, you know, Um, I I do get into trouble online and I really hate when it's whittled down to Jen's fighting with someone online or it's like I'm acting out an anxiety disorder in front of you all you know, Um, please don't

reduce it to that's who I am. Don't bring it up in interviews with me, like it's not fun. If it's happening, if I'm not joking around and messing with someone,

then I'm acting out an anxiety disorder online. And that anxiety disorder is if you only knew me, you would stop telling me that I'm a horrible person for speaking out against you know, and then you feel like when you've acted that online because of your anxiety, that your life is over because people have seen you how as you are, And that's even more pious for therapy to

say they don't control it. Uh, the past is the past, this idea that no one will ever see me be uh unfriendly or And my biggest thing is like, God, i got anxious online and reacted badly, but I'm very successful at my job. Everyone at work likes me. I have great friendships, and I go, well, maybe all that's a lie instead of like, no, the internet thing is

you're a human being, right, but it's thing. I have black and white thinking and white where my therapist helped me because I was like I don't want to talk about Twitter and therapy. But I realized I've had some experiences where I was like, you know, I can't stop, like when someone's teasing me and I and I'll give you an example of teasing for the people listening. I'm not talking about someone saying I'm not funny. That's I always say. The fact that I'm not selling out stadiums.

That's how I know most people don't think I'm funny. Is it makes sense? Like, yeah, I get it, I've accepted that. But but I but I was getting Um, you know a lot of times I speak up about injustices or feminism or sexism. I speak out against sexism, not feminism, and uh, and sometimes people will come down on me and and anyway, my point is that I

was saying to my therapist is I want justice. I want my therapist is like Jen, when you reveal yourself to the bullies and say please, I'm really nice, it makes them want to do it more. No, that's that's what they want. They do want that. Well. It's funny though, because you know we know this right, like people online the average person will say, don't feed the trolls. That's what they want and I go no, no, no, no, no,

you're wrong. But then when my therapist says it, it hits in my heart where she says, you're making yourself a victim and they love a victim. And she goes, they like you because you're so open. That is your greatest gift, but it's also your biggest downfall. You've got to protect it. You can't like you can't, And she's like, except like, I'm in the same I'm in the exact same book. I think it's great though, because my therapist doesn't go, no, no, it's totally normal to do that online.

She goes, that's not your best self, don't do that. That's no good. It's it's dangerous. The whole thing is a such a trap. But I love Twitter, I love everything. I love Twitter is it's not Twitter is not the problem, although it can be the problem, but it's the whole idea that you're talking to these people. It's just an unnatural way to relate. So it's gonna get that way. So this one I wanted to ask you, um, yeah, how did you how did you decide to go to therapy?

I assume things must have been getting unmanageable to where you just felt you had no choice. Did Did your wife say you got to go to therapy? What happened? I think it was probably my father, when my father died in two thousand and sixty. It was I think it was more like the sense that I was slipping away,

you know the word. She could tell that I was just this whatever it is, arguing with a guy, you know, arguing with the as I used to say, I'm agno, Why does Razor Blade and Apple have a problem with my Why does loves to serial kill six six six have a problem with my politics? You know? So I was did not realize that all of these things that I had fears of because to me, the O c D got me to the point where I was frozen with things like taxes and old and then I would

hate myself and I was frozen. And so that's what kind of I think that the feeling like I was really losing control with social media, losing control with my anger and UH and the O c D getting worse. And also when I was fifty, I took out a roll was changed my life. That was even before that changed my life. I was on a plane, I took it. All of a sudden, my stomach upset went away, so the chest changed. I thought, your stomach is upset when it's upset and there's nothing you can do about it.

That's how little I knew about my body and every so so adderall I think started me like to realizing it that this thing I suffered from from I was one. Oh. The other thing I want to tell you was it got better. That particular thing that was what was That's what kind of stopped me from going was like the hitting somebody in the car got better. It got a little better. But so you didn't think of going to there, you mean until later in life because yeh, yeah that

makes sense. Well you know, and now, oh my god, it's the greatest thing I've ever done home. It's funny, like I totally can see that we're the big like the big ticket O c D item that Pete. The average person could go, oh, I recognize that as O c D. And I'm driving around, I think I hit someone once. You're not doing that, I bet it's hard to recognize how it's part of who you are and

it informs a lot of stuff. And you know, also my comedy also the comedy like I would make fun of Leno or make fun and I'd be war read that I would be in controuble and wouldn't get work from it. So so then I began to say, I have to make the joke mean like I'm changing the world, I am fighting Lettoism. And then I realized that that that's that black and white, that that no, someone who that doesn't always have to get the schmall boopy in a joke could be a joke where the laugh comes

from nothing nobody getting hurt in it. But sometimes people get get hurt, and sometimes you feel angry, and sometimes you want to make a statement, but when you're just not understanding it all and you're just I didn't understand.

So even doing the speech in Montreal was getting not harder, but everything seemed to be accelerating to a thing where you I was further away from understanding the root cause, which was that I hated myself for I wanted to, you know, all these issues we've been talking about, I have to convince people about my Islam. Islamophobia is bad and uh and so yeah, I think that that's that's what really started me off onto getting more into myself. I have so much to say about that. It's so fascinating.

So and I'm going to talk about in the intro so people will know when we're talking about, you know that, what what you're really known for. Um, we'll talk about the Montreal Comedy Festival, I'll talk about the you know that you kind of are known for roasting other people in the comedy industry. So well, I don't even need to explain it right now because they already know because

I talked about in the intro. But the fact that so you're making Leno jokes and you're thinking, you know, he could come after me or I could not get work because of this, which is not a you know, Luis c Kay was even worse. Was even worse because before Luis Kay thing happened to him, he was the most powerful man in the bit. He was like, it's so funny when people say, was he really using power? Oh, I guess he was. Since I was scared to death

of him and his sexual song allegations. You were making fun of him, and you made fun of everybody and and people. I got a lot of blowback from his friends and all this kind of thing because he got it's set up and I and I that's maybe thing. Well, it has to be more I have to be more right. Well, that's what I'm am fascinated by that that you didn't say, Gee, I better deliver this in a more of a Don Rickles Hey, Hey, I'm kidding. Hey idiot, No, I love you.

I love you. I'm kidding. Like instead of going, gee, I better make it clear I'm kidding, you went the other way, which is I have to vilify them and sanctify myself. And it's like that's hard to do because first of all, there's some people that are just possible going to believe it, but also like it gets probably

less funny, right, Yeah, I guess that's fine. But it's like when I did when I was a judge on the show UH Last Comic Standing, and I made fun of that show for years and years and years I was I was scared to go to Montreal because what am I gonna do? And so I finally said, I said, look, me doing this show, there's nothing I can come up would be that better than what you're coming up within

your head about it. But before that, I was in this Artists don't ever do things that they are not perfect for them or all of these beliefs, ideas and concepts better people. I'm a better person I'm doing. I'm making fun of Louis because I'm a better person than him. Well, in a lot of the ways, I am basing it on my outrage at his horrible behavior. Yes, that's where

it is coming from. But when it gets to the life and death and all this kind of stuff, then is where the focus always goes back to myself as help my comedy. Tu let's talk about that, because I think people listening, I think I do a good crossover of comedy fans. You know how you know, the old cliche people think they'll be less funny if they get more help. And you know, in terms of your O. C. D. Being just a part of you, your whole life, and

it just is how your brain works. It makes a lot of your comedy funny because a lot of your comedy I'm not explaining me to you, explaining to the audience. Is you getting ahead of what the audience might be thinking. And it's so funny, but of course that only comes from someone with anxiety and it's brilliant. But um so, how did go into therapy and and learning new skills actually help your comedy. Well, I think I think fun on this lot. I think had I again, it's like

not wanting to change the past. Had I gone to therapy when I first started comedy, I think it might have been a way harder because I didn't realize again, didn't realize this one that was happening two or three years into my comedy for a solid I'm not kidding, a solid year, I'd be on stage like this, Uh do they know I am now holding the microphone with the left hand. I'm not saying this. You're not saying this. Should I hold it with the right hand? You know?

And not? I mean I always was saying things that were uncomfortable, but not quite understanding that the act would generally be addressing just like you do, the reality of the situation. I don't want to I sound like one of these guys like come to my master class. So now you're you're on stage pre therapy and you're really narrating in your head. I wonder if they're noticing this. I wonder now now post therapy or keep going? So

I was scared to death when that happened. So if I had therapy that I don't know because I was informed the fact that I was formed as a comedian. It doesn't mean I still don't think but if you're not going to ever be funny again, it does still doesn't mean I don't do the all the O. C D things you do. And part of that would be like should I bring attention to this? But then you realize when you're in therapy and the bringing it. I never my style never really changed. It wasn't like, oh

I went on less tangents. Well, I think you know, I get I say this a lot on the show, and I'm sorry to the listeners, but I get emails from people who say, god, I had anxiety and I thought I beat it, and now it's back and they hate themselves for it. And it's like, dude, you never beat it. It's gonna like be in remission. It's gonna come and go. But don't hate yourself for coming back. It was always there. It's just sometimes louder, sometimes quieter.

So so like you said, knowing you could go have a horrible set tomorrow, Great, You're not gonna hate yourself, you know, right, And I'm also letting go. It's so hard to let this go, but letting go of the it's a form of narcisism because my mother was really a narcissist. But there's a narcissism general narcism that's built in to how we look at art and things like that that we really it's hard to separate from. I

want to be everybody to say they love me. I want them to love It's so hard to just realize that there really is no more. I read b here now when I was twenty one, but now I get it now more than I've ever gotten because I was watching this special on TV with like David Byrne and Brian Yo, and Brian you know, was saying he saw art as more like gardening. So you're seeing it's growing on its own and you're shaping it and it's never

done and it's literally is all about the process. Now, twenty years ago, I go, well, easy, did you dismiss anything anyone successful says or what you deem successful because you're convinced but that the result you see is why they have a perspective and it's not even though all these people have had millions of have been miserable, you know, you still want to kind of believe. Yeah, but if I was a little more famous and people worshiping me a little more, it would be better. It just wouldn't.

And you know, I love what you said about the narcissism because I heard a few things that I wanted to flag as like, let's talk about narcissism, because I think with any anxiety disorder, there's an accidental narcissism where we're constantly thinking about ourselves so that we can protect ourselves.

And so when you were talking about like getting in fights online because you might think this comedian you know, is islamophobic or sexist, it's not even that you're sitting around totally caring about the people that might be affected by their hate. That's right, You're actually just I need everyone to know I'm right about this and that person

is bad, and that's like an accidental narcissism. It's not from a bad place, but it's like it That's something I had to remind myself, was like, when I'm seeking justice, it's like what am I actually doing for anyone else? And it's like nothing, but you know, but that's how you know, like, no, you're not a narcissist in the sense of you're a bad person and I'm not either, but I can get in a narcissistic loop. Anxiety bites will be right back after a quick little message from

one of our sponsors. So you go to therapy, and do you notice, like you you seem to have gotten lucky right away, Like you're there, you just went to one therapist and she was the right one for you, the only therapist to I was just so lucky. I was so lucky. And uh and uh, yes, I knew I wanted to go to a woman. That part I knew, but because you thought that would be more nurturing or something or I don't know. I I just think I'm under the not so false impression that a woman will

always be more sophisticated in these area is. But I don't know. But it worked out that great and and and she's she's so great, and she does like you know, she's it's psychoanalysis, so it's like in the Freudian it's not loosely in the Freudian thing. So I never thought

that would help either. I didn't know, you know, I had all these things like, oh, I gotta know I have to go and maybe one day, well, I have to go take LSD and go through a guided thing because I do want to correct things that happen in my college where I thought I was going crazy from LSD, which turns out without a guide to help you through it, that's kind of what you are going through, you are going a little bit crazy. But so I have all these things I want to do. I don't know why

I got off into that. I'm sorry, but I'm never gonna be perfect, and I'm never gonna be in the desire to be perfect, and the I have to really watch the part of me that wants to yell at myself because my yelling at myself and it only makes it worse for everyone around you. And I don't mean you, I'm just talking about in general. But when we do these things that are hurting ourselves, it is that like it's not it's too much, you know, it's too extra.

As the kids say, it's it harms other people around It makes them feel less seen. Now they don't think that you have any ability to hold space for them in their problem. You know. It's just really a snake eating its tail. It's like, oh, I didn't want to be that person. It's a lot. This is what I wanted to tell you, that that where your O c D and my tiny occasional O c D tendencies do not match up. I don't like true crime murder stuff.

I can't watch it. I can't watch anything where anyone's murdered. And people always go, oh, no, it's not violent, and don't worry, you live in a safe building. I'm like, I'm not worried about being murdered. I'm worried that if I learned too much about a murderer's brain, I will

become a murderer. And I used to have a joke about it in my act, and I don't even know what's funny about it now because I don't remember the punch lines, but I remember the gist, which is, if I learned too much about the mind of a murderer, I could become one and I could murder, which would be fine, sane. If I snapped and went insane and murdered and stayed insane, that would be fine. But what if I snapped back and really regretted it. I would

hate that feeling and I couldn't live with myself. So I just want to pretend that that stuff doesn't exist. Well, the stuff on the murder stuff, like I was, I've talked about this a lot of that when I was a little kid. Uh and and religious school to show the Holocaust stuff at two year old age for me, and so it just piles of bodies and it was just it was just I don't like any of the true crime stuff, for it's like buried in your backyard and let's show you what you look like after you

deteriorated for four years. That's not what I like. I get off, not get off. I love like when you find out a serial when you when they start to put the mind of a serial killer together, you start to see how on a little level, ego like in other words, the ego that could cause you that kills really thinking the only way I will be worthwhile, as if I'm famous from killing somebody. But all of that's in that's in that in us, All of that ego

is in us. So for me, I love it as a lesson, a lesson about where your own mind could go without the worrying about being a serial killer. But uh and also I I I love the psychological parts, but they don't separate. They are not going to tell you what kind they're gonna watch. You may not be able to get from the name buried in the back yard. See, I'm not even willing to turn anything on and and see what kind of whatever it is. Alright, So Andy, here you are O c D, your anxiety disorder, your

panic attacks. How are you like, how are you looking forward to the future? How are you looking forward to I don't know even this year, let's say where the pandemics reagon. I know you've been very careful. Um do you find that this was a good year for you to kind of like get to I don't know, the reset is not the word, but just kind of have permission to stay in Like I kind of felt that way last year, Like I'm glad I permission to slow down.

I am exactly agreement with you. I really do believe that so much of my pain in life comes from speeding up, just going too fast, just going too fast. When I go too fast, I literally don't know what I'm doing. So let's you know, uh, it can be spilling coffee to going down there. So I feel like maybe it's aging whatever I've really gotten over the ambition thing, which I can't think I got over even fifteen years ago. I'm over it and I'm into the I wouldn't mind

going shopping for plumbing supplies with my wife. I'm I'm excited about the garden she's putting out that. I mean, it sounds like it sounds like I'm making it up, but I really have this, like I want soup. We're gonna have soup today, and I think that is the advantage of this climate that's been happening out. But I also wanted to let you know I'm also some people would would knows this, this this kind show. I'm most want prozac, which has saved my life in many many ways.

The pro jac is very good. I'm not saying you have to be on it, but for is interesting lifesaver, a lifesaver for me. You seem to really get a lot from cognitive tools. Just listening to your show, it's not it's like you don't say to yourself, I don't want to hold my breath for four, let it out and eight. You know you like you're a lot of people are closed to that. Just that. Yeah, I'm very lucky. You seem to have a very curious and I was

always like stubborn. I used to, you know, my anxiety and panic used to be an identity and I was very much like that can't help me. And I didn't realize that that was a form of narcissism. And so now that I'm like not unique and I have, you know, things that everyone can have, it's so much better and I'm just so curious and I want to It's just it's this kind of stuff excites me. Like I'm with you on the ambition thing. I don't even feel like

doing comedy, where like doing this. I like reading books, I like just relaxing and and like you said, with the absence of anxiety, I can be in the moment for the first time in my life. And even though I've been in therapy a long time, I didn't really know what to work on until maybe seven years ago when I turned forties. So um, you know, as someone who's been in it since they were in their twenties, it didn't really do anything until I saw how it

was really messing up certain things in my life. It has to be the right relationship to just it. Just it's very strange. It it's hard, you know, I think you'd appreciate this, and I and then we'll end after this. Uh, I had a therapist who thought I was anti Semitic. It was such an Andy Kindler scene. So picture that. It's I'm just a young twenties something comedians starting out in New York City and i have a day job at a real place. I'm like the assistant to the

president of the company. And he had this big meeting with a woman named Judith, and he was like, don't forget at two o'clock, you have to call and connect me to Judith. And he had said it like every ten minutes that day. And I had therapy from one to two, and usually we ended at so I could

run up the street back to work. So here I am sitting in therapy and I'm so in the moment that i don't realize it's about like we went over and it's like five minutes to two, and I'm like not going to be able to connect the call to to my boss and Judith, and I'm gonna get in trouble.

And that's all I'm thinking about. So I'm writing the therapist the check from my check book, and her name was like Dr Shirley Smith, and I wrote Dr Judith Something, and she takes the check and she goes Judith as in Jewish and I said no, she goes because I am Jewish and I said yeah, okay, and she's like it was very subconscious anti semitism um because my last name is you know, it's like Goldberg or something. I was like, no, I'm thinking about Judith this call. I

have to connect right now. She was like, I don't have time to get into it, but just look at that. And I was like, Oh, that's the work, that's the word story. And then I went back to her one more time and she fell asleep during my session. And then when I said I'm just worried I'm not going to make it in comedy, she said to me, well, are you friends with Robin Williams? And I said no, and she said you probably won't then, and I was like what She knew nothing about the business. She just thought,

is Robin Williams someone that could help you? I go, well, I don't know him. She goes, You're not friends with him? I go no. She goes, but you're a comedian. I go, well, I'm starting out and she goes, well, I would think it's all about who you know, and if if you haven't made it by now, and you don't know Robin Williams. I mean, maybe you should look at other things. And I was like, this woman's crazy, and then she fell asleep later in the stud How long your sessions? That

was the last one. That was the last one. I can't believe I came back after she accused me of being an anti Semitic, But I think so I could explain that I wasn't. But well, also, you should tell people that you just spelled Judith j okay. I that's I told you that that's what you thought it was. I hope it just andy. Because this is not normally comedy podcast. I'd say we're kidding, just in case the audience is like, did she also I'm Jewish? So come on?

Would you have me on? No, you're my cover for my anti semitism. So let's say you're looking forward to the future. What can you tell us you're excited about in your journey of getting healthier. It's a weird way to end it, but I want you to inspire people right now. People that person listening goes, I can't be helped with my O C d Well, I'll give a couple of things. I have become a walker, as I mentioned, maybe I mentioned that I walk and it's changed my life,

and so I want to do more walking. I want to do more slowing down and I want to do more. Here's the main thing. When I was eighteen and I was in college, I did the show called Mad Dog Blues, which was Sam Shepard play and it was like a really important thing in my life. It was so emotional. And he had a song called Home, and I wrote the I wrote the music to it because it's a whole long story, but anyway, I always used to have the feeling that I was I wanted to return to home.

That was like my theme artistically since I could first write songs. And now at age sixty five, I realized, without being cliche, like what every like, the home is where you are, The home is right here, and that feeling of home is your relationships. So when I used to come home, because I told Susan this all the time, I would come home to this apartment and I would get depressed all the time until I realized that that's

what I was doing. When I was a kid, I thought it was gonna be depressing, and if you don't know that then you just think, oh, when you go home, it's a fact that your stomach starts to sink. Wow. So um home is so I had this image of it, which is like a straight up and down. And that's my feeling about God, and that's my feeling about a lot of things. Is like, if you really are in the moment, all those fears you have are the problems.

Like you're worried about how are you gonna die? Because I always told the story I was five years old, I thought I was gonna die, as a true story, and my mother didn't hear. Mom. Mom, I had some fever, mom, and I thought I was gonna die. And I got the greatest feeling of peace that came over me. Wow. So I I think that being in the moment is Even though that's the book I read be Here Now when I was twenty one, it still comes back to that. I love it like you are home. I love this

for you, your home and yourself. You've got your own thoughts and opinions. You're not worried about getting in trouble. I just love your journey. I mean I've been I'm so excited for you, and I feel that deeply for you your home. You're comfortable in yourself enough to be okay when you're not comfortable in yourself exactly right, exactly, and when you can really say yourself everything I need to be happy, I have and believe it. That's pretty cool. I hope you enjoyed my talk with Andy. I love

how this episode went. It was I'm so frenetic and silly up front, but I really loved the ending where Andy City feels like he's home. I didn't even know he felt that way. Uh so it was. It made me feel emotional, like I just love hearing that people can get recovery at any stage of their life, and you know that whatever you're suffering from is probably not unique to you, thank God, and so there is someone out there who can help you. And I have just

a few takeaways from Andy's episode. But you know, O c D gets thrown around a lot of em O c D about this O c D about that it does not mean someone who's just washing their hands or doesn't want to get COVID. People with o c D are actually having a compulsion to do something in order

to sell soothe. Some people with O c D can just dismiss it as Oh, I'm just a worrier, but a therapist canna helps someone with o c D go down the road in their mind the worst thing that they're worried could happen in order to see that it's either an unfounded worry or that they could actually handle

the worst thing. Andy's therapist caused stopping the compulsive thought before you take any action, popping bubbles and you talked about sometimes when he's feeling rage for no reason or about something, he has to take a look and say, wait a minute, when this emotion starts coming up, this really isn't about the other person, is it? This is

about me? What's going on with me right now? Obviously, getting the right talk, therapist and medication can make a big difference in living with o c D. The book be Here Now helped Andy with acceptance and staying in the moment. And the biggest takeaway I got is that home is where you are in your heart. So thank you for listening to another episode of Anxiety Bites. Anything that you want to get or learn more about Andy

is in the show notes. The link is in the show notes if you want to send an email to the show about what you do for your anxiety, if you want to help inspire others, If you have any questions, any comments, Anxiety Bites weekly at gmail dot com, and as always, thanks for listening Anxiety Bites, but You're in control. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,