Anxiety and Sexy Times

That's what I found so urgent about the questions in a way, because I did give out the email address to this podcast, Anxiety Bites Weekly at gmail dot com. Please send an email if you have any questions that you want solved, if you have any anxiety tips to give our listeners, send an email and I could read

it on air. But before I even gave out that email address, I was getting d M s on my social media from people saying what what they wanted me to talk about on the podcast, topics that they hoped would be upcoming, And a few people were writing about their anxiety around sex. Somebody just wrote, I have anxiety around sex. Help. Usually I don't want to d m people like that back. You know, I just gathered the info and I'm paraphrasing your questions on behalf of all

of you. But a lot of people obviously have have asked for episodes about relationships and anxiety, and we did cover those in February. But there were a lot of people that seemed to be really suffering in the area of sexuality, whether it is they're married, but ever since the pandemic, they don't feel like having sex anymore. Mean they're having anxiety around the conversation of how do I even talk ab out this? Does this mean we're going

to end up getting a divorce? People who are anxious just about sex in general, People who are anxious about getting on dating apps because you know, maybe they watch too much true crime and they know they know what's out there or what could be lurking out there. You know, anxieties from the very real to the kind of imagined. And as Shan says, you know, anxiety is a part

of life. So it's obviously going to be a part of sex, because sex is a part of life, and it's a part of life whether you're having it or not, and that that can cause anxiety. I mean, it's you're standing there with your clothes off, I assume in front of someone, even if it's someone you have been with forever, that can still cause anxiety. There's performance anxiety, There's what

will they think of me? Anxiety. There's something called arousal confusion that that I get into with Shannon about is this excitement or anxiety? So I'm hoping that you get a lot to this episode. I know that you will. I just knew you know what this is. This is not my area of expertise. So let's have an expert answer some of your questions that I don't even know if you thought I would say on the show. I

didn't say anyone's names. I tried to paraphrase these. These were down deep d m s that that got through that got to me. I mean they made their way to me. I don't mean they got to me like emotionally. And hopefully you're listening and this will help. So. Shann Boodrum is a sex and intimacy educator. She mashes up sex ology and psychology as a certified intimacy educator. Her podcast, Lovers and Friends tackles a lot of subjects about sex, and she's got a lot to say about anxiety in

relation to sex. And Relationships on this week's episode. But she is kicking as she is every where UM as she calls herself. She's kind of like Dr Ruth meets Rihanna. She wants to teach people to be more competent and confident. And she's got a YouTube channel over seventy million YouTube views. She's been on so many shows, She's been written up in The New York Times, Forbes, Time Magazine. She's now a relationship and sex expert on Peacock's new dating show

called X Rated, hosted by Andy Cohen. She's also an intimacy expert and workshop facilitator on Netflix's show Too Hot to Handle. So you can find out about Shannon, I will put the links to her best selling books, to her podcast, to her website. All of that is sitting right there, right now in the UH links in the show notes. And let's see what she has to say

about people who are just anxious about sex. Let's listen to my conversation with Shan m H. Shan, you are a UM sexologist, you have studied psychology or certified intimacy educator. My getting this right? Would you please tell me in my audience exactly what that is I thought it would be more interesting coming from you than than me saying in the intro. Yes, Um. The easiest way I think about this is a sexologist is to sex what nutritionist is to food. So it's the study of how sex

interacts with people. And you can choose a discipline of psychology, of biology of wellness, pharmaceutical, physiological, it could be. Fromn educational standpoint. As a sexologist and uh intimacy educator, I'm a public facing sex educator. So my goal is to take information from way more smarter people who work in researches, research centers, and labs, and then try to find ways to make that interesting and accessible to the general public.

And what was someone who isn't front facing, like, what would they be doing as a career. Would that be the person that taught me sex said in high school? No, it should be, but it's more than likely your gym teacher or somebody who was just thrust into that role who has no idea you know, about language and about the various components of sexuality themselves, and didn't get good sex education growing up. And then also now just was given this textbook and told to read verbatim out of it.

It should. I know, if you went to a grade school, that would be amazing. I don't know one person who had a sexologist teach their sex said class, but that should be a thing. But there are definitely sex educators who do write curriculum, mostly for more private schools or for chartered schools. So that is a pathway to take to be on the educational route. UM a SECT which is uh the number one certification board for sex sex

sex alogist, sex educators in America. They you know, have a sex educator realm and those usually speak to people who are either working in education or are doing one to one work. Got it well, since none of us grew up with someone like you in our schools. This is probably why people are emailing my podcast because I'm just a comedian with anxiety. I mean, that's what my

podcast is. I am certainly no experts, and you know, I was thinking, I need I need you to help um and so somebody wrote me and it was just very generic. I mean, honestly, they didn't give me many details, but they wrote and said, I need you to do an episode about sex and anxiety. I have a lot of anxiety about having sex. I mean, I don't even know where to begin. But how do you begin with such a generic question like that, like where does your

mind go first? Like what do you what are they asking? Yeah, I think our minds should go to empathy because there are a billion different places that our mind goes, which lets us know that this is a place that is extremely anxiety inducing. And there are so many different facets and ways that this can be very stressful, uh and mentally painful for people. So the fact of the matter is that that we don't know where to start. That just lets us know that there are so many conversations

that still have yet to be had publicly. Yeah, And what I'm guessing is they're probably simply asking, like I don't know what to do, as though there's a right and wrong to do, and it makes them anxious. And it's like unlike someone who's saying, oh, I don't like to fly in an airplane. I'm not gonna go do some you know, you're not gonna be with your you know, partner and go No, I need to do some deep breathing in the corner and just a ten minute meditation.

I mean, so if someone is saying, like, look, I don't know what I'm doing, or I hope I won't be bad, my heart starts racing or whatnot. What can someone do physically in the moment if they're, you know, right in front of someone, they're abound to take their clothes off or however people want to do it. Is there is there some quick tip? Yeah, I think meet

yourself where you are. So if your There's Life is not a rom com, nor is it a porn, so you don't have to follow sexual script that you've seen before, you don't have to follow a certain timeline. If you are on a time crunch, that could also be what's

leading to some of the anxiety, and that could be favorable. Like, there's a difference, but in arousal, right, there is excitement and then there is anxiousness, and so if it's not excitement, it's anxiousness, and I'd probably be like, hey, these are not the conditions that are favorable for me. And then obviously high anxiety can interfere with sexual performance and sexual pleasure in general, so that's even more of a reason to be like, these are not my conditions, and that's

okay because there's other activities. So I'm not like, you know, I'm feeling really stressed out and I don't want to have sex. Let me just quickly give myself one to three mantra or a Wussan ear massage, and then I'm going to force myself in it. Instead, I would just pause on that and then think about, like what action because sex is about pleasure, m and it's one of the unique places in life where you really don't have

to do it. And there's health benefits for sure, and there is intimacy benefits for sure, but that's not you know, it's not like paying your bills or like making sure that your car is registered at the DMV, like it's it's not even eating right, Like it's something that you engage in hopefully to improve your health and your happiness. And if the way that you're engaging with it is not taking those boxes and don't gauge, it's okay, Like we don't need you to procriate. We're all good here

on preeditor Earth. And furthermore, yeah, the other person that you're with probably doesn't want a partner who's not enthusiastic and relaxed, and they listen to say I can't get there within our time spent together. I might just need an extra half hour to pause that activity. UM have something called turn on triggers, where I talk about on my website. How similarly to love languages, we have to acknowledge that not everybody gets their sexual engine revving the

exact same way. So it could just be that you are a sabio sexual, which is a fancy term for somebody who just likes to feel mentally connected to people before they feel sexual desire. So what you might require is a conversation where I'm like, I just feel like we just kind of got together and it's all like rush restaurants close off, and I just want to plug into you first as a human, I want you to

plug into me. I want to feel like we're connected mentally before that even feels sensual to me to like think about sex. So your anxiety, if it's a medical condition, that's something different. You talk to your doctor about it, you know, if you've got chronic anxiety. But if it is situational, then I think it's a morning sign to do something different and not something different like a quick

fixed band aid. And don't you think too. I mean, anytime someone's having anxiety, it makes us really self focused, um, you know, anywhere from like we have to focus on ourselves to calm down all the way to like we're paranoid, we're worried what the other person is thinking of us, and sex is really kind of the opposite, right, It's it's really about, you know, focusing on yourself in the sense that you're going to speak up for like what your needs are, but you really have to focus on

another person. And you know, I I think if someone is anxious being with someone they've never been with esexually for the first time, um, it is very different than someone who's just for some reason having anxiety around sex when they're already in a relationship with someone. So I feel like, you know, I know it sounds easier said than done, but I feel like, if that person is going to be a viable sexual partner for you, it's

not really about Oh, I'm so nervous. I hope I please them, because like you said, it's not a porn you know, it's not going to be Oh I have to do this like flip in this trick and this thing. It's like, if you don't feel like you can talk to that person for whatever reason, they might not be

a good partner for you. You know, if they're getting a sense that they might be shamed or judged, then like that's never going to work, right, That's that's not you being anxious so much as it's you being aware of the fact that you're not being accepted. Yeah, I think going back to what you said at to talk about that person right in that question in there's just so many iterations, and so you have to be open to all possibilities, especially if you're not having the discussion

with yourself constantly. So if you're not in tune with yourself in this specific way to be able to decipher the difference between performance anxiety and pressure based anxiety, then yeah, you kind of have to weigh both, you know, options that are possible for you. But also I think it's important to acknowledge, you know, on a non chronic mental illness based way, the anxiety is a natural part of life.

It's a healthy part of life. And yes, like sex is exciting, you know, it's the risk and reward center of the brain is activated. You've got your cortisol levels are going to go up, You're going to feel a rush of dopamine. You're gonna feel a rush of adrenaline, So naturally you're going to feel heightened anxiety and heightened self awareness. And that's not a bad thing, um And nor is it a bad you know, signed if I'm nervous about pleasing a partner, that isn't always indicative of

the person being. You know, somebody who's toxic or somebody who's hard to please could just be like a natural byproduct of the fact that, like, I'm about to get naked in front of somebody and try and engage in activity which should result in like maximum pleasure for both of us. And by product of that that com and makes me a little bit nervous. So it may be one of those things where you kind of have to think about and you go through that checklist of am

I unreasonably nervous? Um? Given the circumstances, Is it something about me that needs to change? Is something about the person? Is something about the environment that used to change? Do I just need to take a pause altogether and figured this thing out for myself? Um? And what is the cost to me if I tried to push through this? And if you can go through that kind of mental checklist really quickly, then hopefully figure you land on the on the side of what's best and healthiest for you.

I was watching one of your videos on YouTube and you were talking specifically about how people can get over their fears and anxieties about doing um like video sex, like you know, like being intimate on video. This is more during the pandemic. And but your advice was great. I think applies to any situation which let awkwardness be part of it, right like it's it's okna laugh during it or before or whatever. I mean, we all feel awkward. I'm sure I would be so happy if someone within

reason approached me saying that they fell awkward. It would open me up to be like, oh, could you know me too? I can I can at least share in this with even Usually I feel like that kind of destroys any awkwardness right away. It doesn't usually hang around after that. Yeah, I think humor is a great way to diffuse as well. If that's something that you're comfortable with. Obviously you are, but it is an incredible way to express anxiety in a way that can be really bonding

for people. And again, yeah, life is not a poorn, It's not a wrong comm it doesn't have to be script doesn't have to be perfect and polished. Nobody is filming this. Maybe they are, but like you know, there's like there's nothing that's going to make this like, oh from here until death do you part? This is going to be a representation of what you're like sexually. So I gotta get this right. I gotta nail this thing. Um,

it's not a gymnastics score. So you can follow to the line, you can bend your knees, you can do something funky midway through like that can actually to me. Um, that's what makes sex good. I always like my husband started out as my f buddy, and I was like looking for a specifically like a strictly sexual partner at the time that he and I got together, because I was I'm from Canada, so it was like on the

fritz of deportation. It's got a long term relationship. But I was studying sex for and I was learning these amazing things, but I had no one to practice on. So I was like, I really want to find a partner who I can just have sex with. And I don't know if I'm going to be in the country or what's gonna come of me in the next few months, so I'm not looking for anything that requires any other

form of commitment. And the reason why I ended up choosing my now husband as my sexual partners because he was just so unscripted and authentic and unafraid of making weird noises, unafraid of saying things or asking questions, and it just made me feel like, Wow, I'll never get bored of sex with this person because they're always responding authentically to what's happening and how they feel the moment,

so it's going to be different every time. There's also something really pleasure love that that happens when you release yourself from these scripts, Like you knew what you wanted and you put it out there and it and it went a different way, which is great, But at the very least, I think people should know exactly what they want from a sexual experience. Maybe somebody I don't know, they want to feel I don't know, I don't thinking of a million different things. Maybe they want it quick

and dirty. Maybe they wanted to feel like love even if it's not. Maybe they want an f Boddy and why I'm saying if I could say a fun buddy. Maybe they want a partner. But you know, it's sort of like getting clear with what you want so that you can organically and honestly see if what the person you're with matches up with that, and if not, like, okay,

no big deal, everyone can walk away. But I think there is a lot of anxiety to like keep someone or keep them interested, and it's like it shouldn't be based again, like on performance or anything like that. It's it's do we both have what the other person needs in a sexual situation? And so rarely is it about like they're good in bed because of some you know, I think what what what works for you might not

work for someone else. I think it's also important to note too that like knowing what you want is really not an easy feat at all. I don't know if you've ever tried to pick a medical plan before, and they're so fucking confusing because you're like the deductible, the co pay, the signing, and the maximum amount. Like it's like and I'm paying this much and then I don't

get a dentist. It's all very confusing because you're not accustomed to the language, not used to making those kinds of decisions, and so it's very stressful to figure out. It's something simple like what kind of health care needs do you have? But if you're not familiar with the system, you're not familiar with the language, you can be very stressful.

So I don't want to discount the fact too, that a lot of people are like, yeah, just like you know, be clear about what you want and voice what you need. But they've never been given the language described that before.

They don't even know what the options are, so that in itself is easier said than done, which you know, is a great point that a lot of the anxiety we face around sexuality in general just as a result of the fundamental educational gap that we have here that from the time that we're young, you know, it starts. You know, we're we're told head, shoulders, knees, and toes, and we don't get a word to describe our genitals

until we're like ten twelve years old. So right, and you know, I'm thinking of our my dear listener who wrote like just a very generic like I'm anxious when I have sex. It's like again, like intuitively I'm feeling the bigger question is I kind of you know, maybe there's a little bit of I don't know what I want and who I am, and like there's just so much I don't know, and it's like go back to

square one, you know. Like for me, if I was, you know, a therapist, I probably would be like, the last thing we need to talk about right now is like what you do the second before your pants are up and you're about to have sex as someone Like, let's take this back. You know, what are your needs? Do you feel like you're even allowed to have them? Blah blah blah. How's your self esteem? I think it's like we've probably disappointing to hear sometimes like oh my god,

I gotta do all this work. But it's it's I don't It can be as hard as it sounds, but it's kind of the only way through, you know. Um, there's no quick like you said band aid for now, just do a quick deep breath and just jump on in there. You know, it's deeper. Um. And I think this stuff brings up a lot. I think that's a great point too, because we're kind of not even told that, right We're not told that, Hey, it's okay if you

don't figure it out. After watching one Sex in the City season it's okay if you don't figure it out after reading a single book or having one partner you know who knew more than you. So we're kind of expecting to get to mastery without the general process that

we know applies to literally everything else. Um and maybe comedy might be even a good example, because people are kind of in that space with that, like it's easy and supposed to just be able to jump into it and if I'm funny, I should be able to do this and I should just find a flow with it. It's often, as you know, somebody who's a career in this,

it's literally the process is not dissimilar. Not to undermine doctors, but that's a similar to becoming you know, an expert in the metal cool field, like the time that you need, the scaffolding, the education, the tools, the amount of hours of practice you require before you're actually like efficient at it or successful at it. So I think that with sex, there's this idea that when you're born with it to you should be able to figure it out with like

limited exposure and limited information or three. You can figure it out along the way from people who are just as ignoranted and experienced as you will be right back. Something that another person had written me that they were feeling. And there's been an article about this that I read. I don't remember where it was, but it was like people are feeling too schlubby post pandemic to have sex. So it's just kind of like a silly article about

you know, people weren't feeling either. They were just disinterested because they've been get used to being alone sitting on the couch watching TV, or they gained weight, or their bodies were out of shape in a differ way or whatever.

But somebody written to me that they were anxious about the fact that they were feeling not attracted to their partner um ever since the pandemic, and it was like they loved spending time with them during the pandemic, but they felt like they're not attracted to them, and they're anxious about bringing it up because they're afraid it's just going to snowball and end up being like, we need

to get divorced. And so when I was researching you, I was looking at something you said where you talked about arousal confusion, and I know that's not exactly what this um listeners asking, but you had some great insights about just the anxiety of partners that have been together a long time and how sex can change. And I was just very interested in the arousal confusion. If you if you think that applies here or what would you say to this couple? And is the arousal confusion is

a totally separate topic. No, I mean it can apply. Basically, it is like my mom's this this morning, that she's a nurse and so she's like on a medical sam you can't put as a symptom for an illness at nausea, diarrhea, and fatigue because that applies to everything. So when you experience those symptoms, you have to like there's so many

different possibilities. So arousal confusion is somewhat similar to that in that you get um heightened anxiety or you know, heightened cortisol in your system, your adrenaline starts pumping your risk and rewards, and of your brain is activated. UM, you might feel like your fight or flight mostart to activate for a variety of different reasons. Sometimes that is because you're on a roller coaster. Sometimes that's because you are about to have sex and your horny. Sometimes it's

because you're extremely stressed out. So that is to say that when people get into these heightened states, arousal confusion is. Instead of you acknowledging I'm just highly stressed right now, you might be like, my body feels really energized. I should have sex, I'm really horny. Um. The arousal confusion actually came from an experiment that these reals searchers did

where they had people go on a date. One couple one in a date on a bridge that was stable, and one couple one in a date on a bridge that was swinging. And in almost all cases, the couple who was on the unstable bridge rated themselves as being more attracted to the person they were on a date with,

and they raided the date higher. And that's an example of a rousing concreason because they're doing something exciting that's geting their adrenaline going, and then as a result of that, they're like this butterflies in my stomach, this feeling like these tingling th things I have my fingers must be

never really attracted to this person. So it can actually work, you know, I just tell your friend to um, go on a date with their partner on a roller coaster without buckling themselves in, they might find that their attraction was right back in there. Well, I think there's something too, like the anxiety of like how do I talk about it?

And again it's like, okay, everyone gets married when you know they feel like their relationship is that it's peak in the sense of you know, you're my best friend, I can tell you anything, and then when it comes to sex, people shut down and they don't talk because I don't know why, and you know, I don't know

even know how she would begin this conversation. I would just I mean, to me, the best advice I could say is just blurt it out and just say I'm worried that I'm not feeling attracted to you, but I hope it has nothing to do with us or you. I mean, Or is that too much? Is that am I? Is that not delicate enough? I mean, you could try to compliment sandwich right, So if you wanted to do it that way, I would probably do some troubleshooting on

my own first. Because Esther Parrel was just a great voice in Spain, especially if you're a long term relationship. Is just someone that everybody should be looking into, and she's accessible and she's got a bunch of free um therapeutic medium routes that you can engage with, but she just talks about something very simple like um. You know, intimacy needs closeness and desire needs space. So if we

think about desire like fire. You know, if you smother a fire, it goes out, it needs oxygen um and it also needs new materials so thrown on top of it to keep it going. So what happens in the intimate relationships is that we end up smothering each other and we don't add anything new into the mix, and we wonder why our fire is not burning. So there's some troubleshooting on your own to do there, and it's

very likely during the pandemic. Where again, like our our risk and reward center of our brain, which is what's activating when you go to a casino, right, it's a part of yourself that doesn't know what the outcome is going to be, and that's very exciting for your brain. So a lot of what attracts us to people in the beginning is this element of the unknown, and that continues for some time. Right every time, even if I have an established relationship with somebody, when I call, are

they going to pick up you know? Are they going to enjoy the sex with me? Are they going to find this new lingerie that I bought a rousing? So there's still some gamble of the unknown, But the more that you become close with somebody, the least that there is unknown. I know if I come onto you, you're gonna come on to me. I know you're gonna start off with a kiss on the neck and trail down to my nipples. Like I know everything. We kind of

know the cadence. I know um that there's no risk with you, right, I know if I try, I'm going to succeed. So I also know what you're gonna eat for dinner, and I know what you're gonna wake up and put on in the morning. And so it's in that monotony and pictability that you don't have an opportunity

to be excited by your partner anymore. So I kind of would reflect on, like, what was it, what environments were you in when you were first attracted to your partner, and do you guys put yourself in the position to do that. So if you first saw your partner at the club and they were dancing and they're they're confident in their flow. They had their friends around, and like there was something like really cool about them. He's your partner. Ever in an environment like that around you where you

see that side of them thrive again. When I think about my husband and like what like turns me on? Like what about you know, what do I think about? When I think about him being attractive? It's him looking over his shoulder and like what is that indicative of? Like he's doing something else, he's on the move and he like looks back to like okay, cool, you're you're here, Like,

oh you're coming, Like all right, I'm moving forward. Anyways, there's something that's independent about that, And so I try to find environments or ways where there's separateness where I feel like he's this independent guy who once in a while looks back, but are you coming or not? And like that's what's sexually, That's that's that's sexy to me.

And if I start to feel like we're in a rut, I need I need to find those over the shoulder moments you had said something um about and something I was watching about, you know, with couples where maybe one person has anxiety and it doesn't have to be about like the relationship or anything. But it's you said, it's

not um that one person as anxiety one doesn't. But it's like the compatibility of how you um the coping mechanisms, like like so it's not like you guys have to have the same anxiety or but but like, are your coping mechanisms compatible? Can you? Can you talk more about that, because I feel like that is this super specific little nugget that I've never heard anyone really talk about that. It's like you almost kind of go hunting for people with the same day mentioned but it doesn't really matter,

right as long as the coping mechanisms are compatible. Well, well, that's actually a psychological principle that comes with just the different ways that people manage stress. And so as we got into the pandemic, it was fascinating because we had the same stress almost across the board, right like we everything was shut down, there was unknowns, there was fear

about our health and fear about our futures. So we were all kind of going through a very similar stress, but that was manifesting in people in really really different ways. And so that's where I thought this theory was so helpful in explaining the different ways. You know, there's forms like the distractor, which are people who look for you know, whether it be a vice um or a hobby, you know, when they get really stressed out, they want to do

something to get their mind off of it. But there are actually people who are wallowers right when they get stressed out. They want to research, they want to do and we saw them the pandemic people who like knew every possible thing about coronavirus and all the different you know, theories on it and conspiracy theories. Like the more that they knew, the more that they felt that that was very relaxing for them. But for the person who's a distractor,

that actually is the opposite. That heightens their anxiety because they're looking for an escape from it. So I thought that that was a really important thing to look at, just to be mindful that, you know, because we can re feel like they're actually part of their problem, but instead they're just going about their solution in a way that's not compatible with us. We'll continue the interview on the flip side of a quick message from our sponsors. A lot of people that write me their partner has

anxiety they don't. The main thing they want to know is not really it's like more about like what do I say so they listen to me so they handle it. It's never like how can I listen? You know? And I would assume that would be a huge part of the solution is learning about your partner's anxiety, coping mechanisms stuff. I think what's important about that too is acknowledging that

there's not a better, more superior way. I would say probably like distraction, especially with vices, and there was a rise in people's alcohol consumption over the pandemic, So those are never the ones that you want to say like, yeah, you should do this one. So there's definitely and there's

people who lash out. There's dumpers, right, people who carry all the stress or they collect all the stress all day long and then they get to the person that they're most close with and then they dump all their stress and anxiety on that person. And that's not a healthy way either. We have to also acknowledge people aren't really taught about successful ways of managing stress. I always say this that like anger management is this class reserved

for people who hit children with cars? Where it's like no, when you're in kindergarten and you want to stab a kick too, took a crayon for the first time. You should be pulled aside and started having these conversations around like angers and natural feeling and when you have about feeling, what are some healthy alternatives and what are your triggers? And like everybody should have the benefit of these emotional

regulation classes, but we don't have them. So that to be said is that you could very well be with somebody who's coping mechanisms are not good, right, Like they're not actually favorable. They just don't know another way, and they figured out something that works, you know, to soothe them.

But there are healthier ways. So when you're in these partnerships incompatibilities to an opportunity for the two of you maybe to be partners and growth and to expose that person to a different way that could be more helpful for them and also put them in a better position overall and maybe even help alleviate stress in ways that they didn't think was possible. I like the word exposed. It's like it's less like tell them that they need to do this, but just expose them let them know, Hey,

you know there's this that you could look into. It's I I know it's hard because people aren't always willing to want to change. But lastly, so for our single friends out there, I that's so and as me that dating apps give them anxiety. It's not about like what to say or what picture to use. It's more like they don't trust people because the Internet to them is not a safe place, so they feel like they're signing up.

I think this is probably true for a lot of straight women, maybe even the same for gay men, if they're worried about someone cat fishing them, you know, in order to do violence. I don't know, but this woman was particularly like, I am afraid that I'm just basically asking a murderer to come into my library. It was it was almost like a phobia. It wasn't like cute little you know, dating anxiety. And I was like, I don't know what I mean to me, it's that's a

kind of anxiety that's like getting in a car. I mean, yeah, there's a risk I think that, um, you know, making accommodations to your life or avoiding activities for your anxiety is healthy in some cases, right, guy, I don't go camping because I'm afraid of bears. Our bear is gonna come to my campsite. Probably not. But the fact that I don't camp is really not that much to my

detriment to my overwell, overall happiness and wellness. Now, I'm sure in a camper was like, you have no ideas for missing out on and you know what, I don't, And I'm completely fine with that. So I know, I don't even want to go glamping, like none of it A hills. Yeah, I'm just I'm not attracted to I don't even I barely like traveling because I find traveling very harassing. So we're allowed to make accommodations for our discomfort.

We don't have to push ourselves in every area. But if again, it's like preventing you from really significant additions to your life that would drastically improve the quality of your life. That's when I would look at it differently. I have a friend who is anti online dating as well, but she's has the most robust social life, so I'm like, you don't have to be on dating apps. You know,

you go out frequently. She is a part of a gym, she's a part of multiple clubs and memberships, she is active politically, So yeah, for that kind of person, I'm not going to be like, you should really challenge yourself. It's the way of the future. Because you don't you have a wit, it's obviously effective for you. Kind Of similarly to somebody who's afraid of driving on the highway. You don't have to lecture that person. If they've never complained to you that they can't get places fast enough.

You know they have routes that are comfortable for that. It works and it's part of their way of life and it's fine. So the benefit of dating apps is it takes away the big stress I think when it comes to dating, which is I see someone that I'm attracted to and I'm completely unaware if they are available or interested um and furthermore interested in me. So not

on a dating app. It like reduces to me six of the stress that comes with searching for a mate, because if you're on a dating app, that means that you're searching, and if we matched, that means that you find me somewhat attractive and that we've got some opportunity here to see if there's something between us. So that in itself is like built into like your first thirty seconds of interaction with somebody. And that's what makes dating

apps positive. Um. Yeah, the negative side is that it is accessible, right, and so with the accessibility, there are people who you would never talk to in real life who have an opportunity to see and get in touch with you. There are people who are not who they say they are, which again, in real life you would be able to pick that up in a second, but on a data app it could take a little bit longer.

But there's also these like I I work with Bumble as their sex and relationship advisor, and it's incredible the additions they're making. They actually have something now like to make sure people are not cat fishing, where they have like they have randomized poses that you have to do. So it'll request like, hey, you have to take a picture right now of yourself by a tree with a peace sign, and if you can't produce that, then your

account doesn't become verified that this is actually you. And then now the video app and the video chats have become really popular and as a results of the pandemic, they're actually really common, so you don't have to wonder, oh, maybe they have a picture of us, not actually them have an opportunity to go on these virtual dates first to actually vet people. So the apps are actually getting a little bit more hip to weeding out people like that.

But yeah, there are still anomalies and there are still dangers that happen, and you still you have to put protections in place. That's with real life too, though. I just think that the technology is doing a better job of bridging that gap. I mean, again, no one's going to solve her irrational fear of murderers. It's a good fear to have, you know. I think there's things to

look for once you're on the date. If they're like, you know, I really have this cabin in the woods, you need to go, and I have an AX, don't worry about it. You know, I dug a big hole, like you know, look for those signs. But um, you know, otherwise, I think it's anytime someone asked me something that's really big ticket item like that, like I'm afraid of murderers, and like, well that you know, no one's going to argue you out of that, Like, okay, you're right, you

know what do you want permission to not date? It sounds like that's what you're asking well, thank you so much. You've been so helpful. I was not equipped to wait, and I found my list. Can of just read you found you found my list of different ways that people can cope with stress. Um, so I love especially helps people have the same stressors. Okay, great, Okay. So there's a distractor. Then there's the dump truck, which we talked about,

somebody who dumps her stress onto one person. Uh. Then there's a denier, so people who essentially reduce anxiety by denying reality or the facts around them or even exist or relevant. Then you have the intellectualizer, which I think is you. Um. Then's these there's the empathizer. So in times of stress, they just focus on the needs of others and sometimes the detriment of themselves. They ignore themselves.

They needs might even be like frontline workers and people who are just like I'm here to help other people and they're willing to put themselves in danger. Not to say that, you know, all nurses are empathizers, but nonetheless, like that type of behavior that you have mirrors somebody who doesn't really know how to feel. So they just absorb the coping mechanism of whoever is around them and this person is definitely kind of out about like how do I cope with stress? And this can be dangerous

depending on who you end up being around. Then you have the projector um they so they help reduce anxiety by attributing their unacceptable behavior to somebody else um. And then you have the compensator, so they try to compensate for the real or imagined flaws in one area by selling in another area. These might be the people who picked up guitar um and slinky making during the pandemic. So I have a question about the denier. Is it someone that just kind of denies reality in general or

do they deny their friends and partners feelings? Does that make sense? So I read what's here? So psychological denier denial is a common coping mechanism. In essential, denials an attempt to reduce anxiety and worry by refusing to accept reality or do anything about it. Many overly optimistic and overly positive people are using denial as their dominant coping strategy. Sometimes denial comes in the form of convincing yourself that you can't changing the outcome, so why bother got it? Okay?

So it's not like it's someone's like gasolining you. It's more about themselves and like denying the reality. Like they have no money in the bank, but they're not going to do anything about it. They're not going to look at their bank account. They're just gonna whatever, the house is falling apart, they're just gonna be like, whatever, I can't fix it. I don't have a roof or whatever. Yeah that makes sense. Oh, I love your list. Oh that's really helpful. It's it's a lot. It's hard to

meet people and make things work. We are all so different, and like, for the longest times I I have done this myself, I've talked to other people. Like I said before, I'm like, if I could just meet someone with the same baggage, I don't think that anymore. But I used to have all of these different coping mechanisms that I thought, like, this would be perfect, and it's I'm never right. I'm just never right. Yeah, it's I mean, it's it's such a there's a billion different things that go into play.

It's hard to make the best friend. It's hard to meet a gym buddy, right, It's hard to meet a cuddle buddy. So when you try to combine all these various roles into one are saying like, yeah, it's it's tricky, but that's the magic of it. When you figure it out, you're like, yeah, this is what it's all about. Do

you have any advice for well? And then this, do you have any advice for Like, let's say you're dating someone and it's going well and they're great, but you're you're just I don't know, you get anxiety by being in the relationship. Do you have a like what what would be a healthy anxiety and what would be like, Oh, no, that's not anxiety. You're you're sensing red flags in your that's that's that's bad anxiety, like get out, get out.

Is there is there any kind of like quick measure for people to take a temperature of like how do you know when the anxiety you have in a relationship is healthy or when it's like, actually, that's kind of a sign. I would change the factors and see if the feelings change. So change environments. So maybe we always meet at their home and they always come to my home and I'm stressed if they think my house smells um or we always go to a restaurant and worried

about the bill, So you may not. You may be again like misplacing where the anxiety is coming from. Um, and maybe that you're not giving yourself an opportunity to be the best version of yourself because you're so obsessed with trying to be who they want them to be. So start hanging out with friends you know and see

if having your usual comfort group around changes things. So keep making adjustments UM to the factors surrounding that person, and if you find the feeling isn't changing, and no matter what the circumstances are, I probably would look at the person rather than something individually that you have to fix. Genius.

I love it well, thank you so much. I was non equipped to answer any of my listeners and conscience I would have been telling everyone to get a divorce, don't go on dating app So you've probably saved a lot of people, um, some loneliness and some save them a lot of anxiety. Thanks for listening to this episode. I hope that it was fun and hopeful for you, and I hope you remember that awkwardness will always be there no matter what you're doing, and a sense of

humor could never hurt. That's just my My two cents. I'm always throwing that in. There are just a sense of humor, sense of levity around anxiety, especially anxiety with sex. Sense of humor, Guy's sense of humor. We're all just humans, and maybe some of us aren't humans. I don't know who's listening to this podcast, but let's get into the takeaways for this episode. So in arousal, there is excitement, but there is anxiousness, and sometimes it's hard to tell

the difference. Shan has named turn on triggers, which are similar to love languages. Not everyone gets their sexual engine revved in the same way, so you have to learn what your turn on triggers are, and you will only learn by tuning into yourself and experimenting. A sabio sexual is someone who likes to feel mentally connected to people

before they feel sexual desire. It's really important to be in tune with yourself that you can know if you're experiencing sexual performance anxiety, or some kind of cultural outside pressure based anxiety. Arousal confusion is the experience of the risk reward system in the brain being activated. Adrenaline and cortisol are heightened, and it could be because you're about to have sex, or could be because you're on a

roller coaster about to have sex. It could be because you're extremely stressed out in your life as well, Andrew about te sex. Couples can experience the same kind of stress and anxiety, like as we saw during the pandemic, couples were going through the same thing at the same time, but it's the different ways that they cope with their anxiety that can be where the disconnect is. It's not that they don't understand the other person's anxieties. The different

styles of coping. The different types of person you can be as as a coper are the dump truck, the distractor, the denier, the intellectualizer, the empathizer, the mirror, the projector the compensator. None are good or bad. You just have to know what you and your partner are so that you can understand why you are either unable to help each other with with your anxieties or why you're not

seemingly understanding each other despite going through something similar. And if you think the person you're dating is causing you the anxiety, because maybe are there red flags? Is something not right? Change up the factors and the environments that you normally get together in and start to see if your feelings change. And don't forget that anxiety is a natural part of life and so therefore it is going

to be a natural part of sex. It's an activity where the risk and reward center of the brain is activated. There will be some, hopefully excitement. Thanks again for listening. If you want to send an email again, that address is Anxiety Bites Weekly at gmail dot com. I won't say your name on air if you don't want me to, just please indicate that in the email. As always, I would never read your email address out loud. I would never say your last name, or your location or anything

like that. We do have a few more listener email episodes coming up this season. Please please give the show five stars. You can write reviews on Spotify or Apple podcasts, post about it on your social media use the hashtag Anxiety Bites podcast. You can follow me on Instagram or Twitter. Both are at Jen Kirkman. And please tell a friend about the show. I think those are all of my commands for you. Just remember Anxiety Bites, but you're in control.

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