With AI, our teams are spread around the world and major shifts are occurring in the workplace. Our guest today says humanity first leadership is the last real differentiator. Hello, my name is Chester Elton and with me is my dear friend and co-author, Adrian Gostick. Well thanks, Chester, and you know we agree with that. So in this technological age, how can leaders re-engage their most important asset, their people? That's our topic for today. As always, we hope the time you spend with us will help reduce the stigma of anxiety at work and in your personal life. And with us is our new friend, Dr. Christy Smith, who has more than 35 years of experience advising the C-suite of Fortune 500 companies. Previously, she was the Global Head of Talent and Organization at Accenture, Managing Principal at Deloitte, and a Global Vice President for Inclusion and Diversity at Apple. Just a couple of companies that you've probably heard about. Her new book with Wiley is called Essential, How Distributed Teams, Generative AI, and Global Shifts are Creating a New Human-Powered Leadership. Fascinating title, fascinating subject. We are delighted to have you on the show, Christy. Thank you for finding the time. Oh my gosh, it's such a pleasure to be with you both. Thanks for having me. Well, Christy, I think you've hit just in those, that subhead alone. You've hit everything that leaders we work with are talking about right now. So, and I know we struggle a lot with our subhead. So when we were writing books, so good for you here. One of the things, I wanna get to the human side cause you talk in the book about emotional maturity. So let's start there. What is that? Give us some kind of the ideas and traits of emotionally mature leader. Yeah, well, let me set the context a little bit and why we wrote this book. We wrote this book because no one is looking at the kind of tsunami of all the issues leadership is faced with today. People are talking about them one-off, whether that's return to work or AI, or having a global economy be disrupted by war in the Middle East or in the Ukraine. So we're dealing with, what we saw is leaders and thought leaders talking about these things one-off. What we wanted to do is say that it is the combination of all of these things that leaders are facing that is unprecedented in our history in the industrial, since the Industrial Revolution. So we wanted to address all of these issues. And in the research, it points to what is the differentiator if you're dealing with these as leaders, what differentiates you and what is needed by you from your employee base? And it's no longer enough to be emotionally intelligent. Emotional intelligence is great. It's been a great framework. It's been a great basis for how we understand ourselves as leaders and an internal look at ourselves. Well, it's not about us anymore as a result of what's happening in the world. We need to shift from emotional intelligence, which is inward focused to emotional maturity, which is suspension of self-interest and looking at the humanity within your organization and how you engage and provide the opportunity for individuals to be much more than they ever imagined to be and give them the tools and the assets and the education to be productive, to be connected to purpose, to be connected to their work and upskill and reskill them. Wow. I'm going to replay that recording. That was a lot right there. I couldn't agree with you more. Emotional intelligence, great start, great foundation, this idea of emotional maturity. So let's go a little deeper on that. So why does it matter to develop that? You've explained a little bit about it, but listeners, I'm sure, are thinking they could recall very few leaders that would be really exceptional and seen as great leaders that they would also say were emotionally mature, right? Yeah. So why should we seek out to be more emotionally mature in a world that seems to be really rewarding more of the narcissist and more of the it's all about me? You know, you said you've got to engage people and it's not so much about self-interest, it's about humanity, right? So how do you do that in a world that's not rewarding that right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so what we've seen is a major shift since the pandemic, right? Where the, you know, we've asked for decades and decades and decades as leaders in an organization, rightfully so, what do we expect from employees? What are the competencies we need? What are the roles they need to play? What are the norms from a cultural standpoint? All of those things, and those are valid. But what has shifted in the last five to six years is employees are fundamentally turning that question on its head and saying, oh no, what do I require of you as a leader and as an organization? And in our research in the book, we found four areas that are most prominent in terms of what employees say that they require from their organizations and leaders. Purpose, your insides have to match your outsides. Leaders and companies are being exposed right, left, and center, especially today with the DEI issues that are coming from our public sector, from this administration, is that employees are saying, no, you've got to live up to the values and demonstrate values and purpose. And, oh, by the way, you also have to help me understand how my work ties to the purpose of the organization. Right? Secondly is agency. And employees are requiring agency to do their work when, how, and where they want to do their work, right? And you might not get all of those answered, but the autonomy that what employees want require leaders to fundamentally restructure the way work is done, right? And butts in seats and swipes of your badge and monitoring and surveilling your employee base isn't gonna work anymore. The third area is wellbeing, right? We are in a silent pandemic that we're not talking about or addressing like we did COVID. And that is the mental health issues facing everyone. And this is what your podcast is about. The rise of employee-based suicide, the rise of depression, anxiety, stress, LOAs, all of these things are happening and we're not addressing them. And so employees are saying, you must give us the resources to be healthy. We must structure work so that I'm not doing it 24 seven. And the last area that employees require of their leaders is connection. And we have unfortunately defaulted to a 20th century solution in connection to return to office, which is butts in seats. We can only create connection through seeing you and you being at work, rather than how do we develop connection, A, on a personal basis, and B, in the way we structure the work to be done. So all of that points to a need that leaders and the emotionally mature leader has a couple of things that they can do to address this. One is that mindset shift of suspension of self-interest. The second is behaviorally to be insatiably curious. This is the skill of the 21st century, not only with the advent of AI, but also with this dual relationship between employees and employers and the lack of skills that are available in the marketplace. We're at a huge deficit, millions and millions of deficit and skills scarcity. So being insatiably curious about your employees, what are their headwinds, what are their tailwinds, what do they need to learn, how do we connect their work to purpose, all of these things. Third is a focus on creating cultures of real excellence. What does that mean? How do you take every quote unquote athlete on your team and have them play to their strength and architect work differently? And then certainly, how do you meet these human requirements that I just talked about? And this is a flywheel that we developed around emotional maturity. Yeah, so I wanna push back with you a little bit because I've been doing a lot of thinking and being curious about this idea of connection. These numbers aren't going to be right, but I remember in the 50s, I'm at the end of the Baby Boomers, and you read about the 50s and 60s, where communities were so connected, right? There were softball leagues and bowling leagues, and everybody went to church and everybody was in like the Elks or the Masons or the Knights of Columbus, whatever. There was this sense of community because you breathed the same air. Now, fast forward to 2025, the population of the United States, let's just take that as the sample, is almost triple and yet loneliness is one of the biggest issues. You say, wait a minute, there's way more people than there were, but why are we so much alone? And you've got the one side that says, okay, because we're so connected to our phones and digitally and we're siloed and we're working at home, we don't have that community and those connections. Now you're pushing back on that and saying it doesn't matter whether you're in the office or not, you can have meaningful connections. There's such a conflict there for me, because we do a lot of stuff virtually. I mean, we're doing this virtually. And yet when I'm in a room and I'm brainstorming with people, it's so much better. And I feel so many more connections and these communities that we create. So help me with this one because I guess I'm old school. I think that from time to time, you need to breathe the same air. Am I wrong? No, I don't think you're wrong, but let's be clear on how that happens, right? One in five employees in office state they feel lonely, right? In the office. Okay. We're not restructuring work around the value of connection. And does connection only happen in a five-day work week? I don't think so, of being in math. 100%, agreed. That's not have to happen that way. I think it's a failure of imagination of leaders to figure out how do you build connection with a remote workforce. So, when I was at Deloitte, we had these wonderful thing called zip code dinners, right? Where the employees in the company provided a stipend where employees who lived in the same zip code or around the same zip code, partners were taking those employees out to dinner or having them at their house and building connection in that way. Not hard to do, right? So I think that there are other ways to build connection. I mean, your point about community is Robert Putnam, the Harvard sociologist, talks about successful societies need two things, bridging capital and bonding capital. Bonding capital is what is the purpose of this company that I'm a part of? What is the bonding that I'm creating within my team, which the leadership is responsible for? What are the connections I'm creating? And how do I create those virtually and not? The bridging capital is, well, how do we bridge across difference? How do we bridge across P&L? How do we, in silos, how do we bridge across differences? How do we hold conversations in the middle? We're so polarized in the world today that people are living in fear and anxiety, right? And we're unable to have that bridging conversation across difference because it's not valued and we're not teaching people how to have that conversation in the middle. Zip code dinners, genius. I love that. Yeah, I love that. I love this has been such a great conversation. I think, and Chess, you know, I mean, we can push back on Kirstie. I think she's going to win every argument we have. But just letting you, warning you there. How do people learn more about your work, Kirstie? Where would you send them? Sure. I founded a company out of the work of my book called The Humanity Studio. So you can find us at thehumanitystudio.com. You can learn more about the book Essential at smith-monahan.com and look forward to connecting with anyone. Awesome. That'd be great. Okay. So, somebody's listened to this. Not everybody listening is a leader. A lot of people are thinking, okay, this is great. I believe in everything you're saying, Christy, but I work for a leader who is not emotionally mature so what do I do here? How can I be the change I wanna be when I'm dealing with someone who is lacking everything you're talking about? Yeah, I think taking ownership for your own behavior. I mean, I don't think, we invest way too much, space in our heads about the behavior of other and what they're lacking. What we can control, which is really out of our control. Now, I've had bosses who are just toxic and horrible. I mean, there's no question about it. It's really hard to insulate yourself. So you've got to think about what is your own resilience plan, right? But then secondly, you have to live the principles of emotionally mature leader to demonstrate that to your team and to your colleagues. Because that you are not, just because you don't have the title doesn't mean you can't affect culture. Everyone in the organization at no matter what level can affect culture in a positive way or a negative way, can be an emotionally mature leader or not. So I think controlling our destiny, if you will, with how we build the personal capabilities of resilience and also live the values of the leader you want to see. Excellent. Hey, you talk about actionable steps, right? That leaders can take, and you've talked a little bit, give me three really quick. What are three actionable steps that leaders can take to become more emotionally mature? One is assessment. Okay. You've got to be able to have an assessment, that we developed one of course, on emotional maturity, right? You need to understand where you are. Then you need to understand where your team thinks you are, secondly. So data's really, really critically important here. And based on number one and number two, is you have to develop a personal plan of changed behavior. AI can help in this, as well as coaching can help in this, as well as team building can help in these things. Awesome. That's awesome. Okay, last thing then, Christine, is what do you do? I mean, you've been a leader at some of the biggest organizations in the world, a senior leader, a lot of pressure, a lot on you. What are your tactics of self-care that help you get through the day and thrive? Yeah, it's a couple of things. I am, despite being in the business world for as long as I have been, I still think I'm just a jock. I love the athletics, whether it's participating and running, weightlifting, biking, whatever it is. I golf, a lot of golf. I take the time to do those things and I never have my phone with me or anything like that. The second is my family. My family, I'm the youngest of eight. I have two children and a spouse. We have a lot of fun together and we don't take ourselves all that seriously but it's super fun. So I spend as much time as I can with my family. And then lastly, I'm a big advocate for anyone dealing with anxiety to get a pet. I have two dogs that I swear to God, you know we can keep my blood pressure very low. So, those are the things that I do, pretty simple. Adrian's big on the pets and the dogs. I don't know if I, I spin this around, I got two dogs sitting here. Yeah. And a cat wanting to go out right now, yeah, so. Yeah, nothing better, nothing better. And especially when you walk through the door, whether you just went on an errand or you've been gone for a week, they go crazy. You know, it's like, why can't everybody, everybody respond to me, that's like, dang it. Yeah, I know, I know. Hey, listen, our guest, the amazing Christy Smith, that's your new title, by the way. Thank you, I appreciate that. Look for her book, Essential, How Distributed Teams Generative AI and Global Shifts are Creating a New Human-Powered Leadership. Go to her website. Give us that website again, thehumanitystudio.com? That's correct. Excellent. Hey, as we wrap up, what would be one or two things you'd want listeners to this podcast to take away? You know, number one is really think about what's required of you as a leader. What got you here is not going to sustain you moving forward, number one. Number two is you please, please, please take a step back, put your devices down, turn your watch off, whatever it is, and engage in a conversation with your colleagues that is uninterrupted and that is more about what they do and more and more of who they are. Learn their stories, love that. That's a great way to end. Well, Christy, this has been just a delight. We've learned a lot and I hope everybody picks up your new book. It's called Essential from Christy Smith. It's available wherever fine books are sold. And so we want to thank you for coming on the podcast today. We wish you the best of luck with the book and with all your work. Great, thank you so much, guys. I appreciate it and hope our paths cross. Well, Chess, we learn so much from wonderful guests like Christy Smith here. I like what she's saying. This book addresses the tsunami of leadership issues. And this is what we face with the leaders that we go speak to or we coach with is that, look, I'm trying to deal with AI. My CEO wants everybody to return to work because we've paid a hundred million for this new office space, the war, rising prices, et cetera. There's a lot that leaders are facing. How do you address that all? So I think she's given us some really effective strategies here. Yeah, well, I love that, you know, human powered leadership. Yeah. I mean, it says it all, right? And this isn't a nice to have, the title is, It's Essential. That, you know, emotional intelligence, good start. Now you've got to get to emotional maturity. It's kind of like what we were talking about, psychological safety in Anxiety at Work, our book, you've got to raise that to emotional safety. And how do you create that? I loved when she said, the best leaders are curious. You know, be curious. And it wasn't like insatiably curious? Let me see, I wrote it down. I'll find it again. And be curious, like we always say as leaders, be curious about, you know, work and your market. She said, no, be curious about your employees. Be curious about your team. You said know their stories and make that connection, which I think is just really wonderful. Oh, it is. Oh yeah, insatiably curious, yeah. But I like where you're going with that. Is that something we need to reinforce? Is that's what human-based leaders in this AI-driven world, return to work, war, et cetera, care about people. And the four things she says, like first give them a purpose, give them some agency in how they work and what they're working on to some degree. You can't let people run wild but you can give them a little bit more of what they want to do, care about their well-being which is of course the whole idea of our podcast and then finally create connection which I know you're very big on. Are we creating a connection for people. And she said, look, it's not a lack of intelligence that people have, it's a lack of creativity. Because I am a big fan of saying, look, every now and again, we gotta get together. However often that is, there's something about humans being in the same space. She goes, absolutely, zip code dinners. I thought that was genius, right? How easy to do. Give a little stipend, you know? Doesn't have to be a fancy restaurant, could be a drive-thru. No, I'm kidding. But, you know. Take everybody to Arby's. Sure, yeah. Yeah, yeah, they've got the meat. Anyway, but this idea of be creative in how you do it, because people are looking. When she said one out of five people at work are still lonely, that's a lack of creativity. You know, I find this with my sons, right, in their workplace, is, yeah, so you have to be in the work three days a week, let's say. But if your three days don't match up with your team's three days, you're still all by yourself. You know, he would say to me, look, dad, I'm in the office, I'm the only guy there. You know, he says, it's great that they've got snacks and everything. I just piled it into my backpack at the end of the day because there's no one there, you know, free snacks. That idea of being creative, like, are we all going to be in the office on a Wednesday? Are we gonna do a zip code? Are we gonna get together and do whatever? But that insatiable curiosity about your people, I thought was such a great thing. She's also saying it, look, it's about yourself too. I liked what she said, it's like assess yourself. I mean, that's why we have jobs as executive coaches is so few leaders are self, or are introspective or self-aware. So the first part of that is be aware of yourself, but then what do we do when we go work with somebody? We do a 360, right? Our mentor, Marshall Goldsmith, taught us this. You do a stakeholder-centered assessment of the people. You listen to what people, and that's always a hard thing for them to listen to, because they think they're great and they're wonderful and they walk on water and there's things for them to improve. And finally she said put together a personal plan of change of your behavior because it's only through that and as we you know as Marshall tells us actions change much faster than perception. It takes a long time to change people's perception of you. You gotta work on this. Yeah, and lastly, she said, think about yourself as a leader. Who are you as a leader? Who do you wanna be as a leader? And then step back and have conversations with your colleagues. Who are they and what kind of a leader do they need? Just really a lot of pensive, like get the data, think about it, and then like you say, put together a plan. Well, what a delight. Pages and pages of notes, and it's going to be great. Hey, you know somebody, what a smart, insightful guest who's pushed us. Her book is doing really well, hit a lot of bestseller lists. So we want to thank Christy for joining us today. When you think of smart and insightful, of course you think of our producer, Brent Klein. Also our booking manager, Christy Lawrence, who helps us find amazing guests like Christy. We want to thank all of you who've listened in, the smartest podcast audience in the world. If you like the podcast, share it, download it, tell your friends. Visit thecultureworks.com also for some free resources, including more information about our bestselling book, Anxiety at Work. Absolutely, and we love speaking to audiences, whether it's in person or virtual. We speak all around the world. We speak on topics like culture, teamwork, resilience. Give us a call, we'd love to talk to you at your event. We love being busy and on the road and preaching and teaching the power of mental health and gratitude and so on. Well, listen, always a pleasure to be with you, Adrian. I second on Brent Klein, brilliant. Christy Lawrence, we don't have guests without her. We've got a great team for which we are very grateful. As always, I give you the last word. Hey, thanks everybody for joining us. Until next time, we wish you the best of mental health. ♪♪
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