#9 Anneke Lucas with Alandra Markman

Hello and welcome to this podcast episode of the Annika Lucas Podcast. So It's been a while since I've been able to do a live interview and I'm so happy that we're here in New York. I'm speaking to an someone I've known for almost ten years actually. that we know each other from survivor groups and um He is in New York just for a few days, so it was just very lucky. Everything just fell into place that we were able to set this up and do this. So very excited about our in interview.

Um as you know I um pay out of pocket for these podcasts. I really appreciate your support. I've had some amazing support from you. Uh thank you so much. Just want to really acknowledge you for sub for the the the funds that are coming in. And of course, as you know, every little bit helps. So if you want to make a small donation just to support the content, um I very, very much appreciate it.

So my guest today um is Alandra Markman and he's a survivor like myself or maybe a little bit differently. So welcome Alandra. Thanks, Annika. Det är bra att se dig igen. Yeah, so we were really hanging out maybe like you said it was twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen when we were spending more time together. Mm-hmm. So very happy to see you again. I'm glad we got reconnected. Me too.

And um, you know, we know each other as survivors of SRA and I just I guess maybe we can start with Having having you tell us a little bit, an overview of um well, your life and and and SRA experiences. Sure. Thanks. Uh I was born into a satanic family, so This was on both sides of the family, um, going back quite a few generations as far as I'm aware. Um probably going back many generations, but it gets difficult to know. Um So um

In her front life, uh sometimes with other survivors I'll say front life and back life. So the front life is kind of your public life that everybody sees and your back life is what most people don't see and where a lot of the abuse happens.

Um Yeah. So in front life my my mother was a a sex worker, um Oh. Yeah. Uh by choice. S I mean, supposedly, um And also an activist on behalf of uh mental patients. And those were kind of the two big things. Um in back life she was uh a slave to some other members of her family and also non family m members who were part of the cult networks. Um So it's very complex and my father, um in front life was one of her clients.

And they never um had any formal relationship. Um but um it's since come to my understanding that he was also from A bloodline that the cult network was interested in. And so their pairing was arranged behind the scenes. Wow. Yeah. I've also observed that there the people that when they took an interest in me, they first had to know about my blood which I didn't know anything about and I don't even know what they did and how they measured it but

And I know that you even have a very unusual blood type. Yeah. Yeah. Some Yeah. A B negative, um, which certain aspects of the network take a very deep interest in. Um unfortunately for me. Yeah. So did you grow up with your just your mother or in front life, yes, it was primarily me and my mother. Um and that's essentially what I was coached to say. You know, I live in a single parent home with my mother.

In reality, I was surrounded by people all the time, um, other handlers in the cult network and um different types of sex workers, and I was made to be a sex worker or sex trafficked. Um so there were a lot of different kinds of adults around. Um and some of them I'm sorry, yeah. Yeah, and some of them had family roles with me or w they would play the roles of certain family figures. Oh I see. But you were trafficked right from when you were very young? Yes, I was. I'm sorry. Thanks.

So that was your first like role because your y well, your mother even, you know, publicly was a sex worker and then you immediately got um sex trafficked. Yes.

And so in the network setting in the back, like say backstage. These are SRA families, so it's the sex trafficking, was there other stuff happening already very at a very young age as well? Yeah, a wide variety of uh torture and abuse was happening. Um I suppose I can just get right into it since we're here for this purpose. Um Yeah, I I witnessed um not just sex trafficking, but a lot of different types of violence and torture. Um

Yeah, some of it um lethal to the participants, murders. So that was also happening. And you were there, um, did you feel that you were not gonna get killed or was there Sometimes that you you might have gotten killed. Did you feel that because of maybe your blood or whatever reason that or because you were your mother was in it? Or did you feel that you there was a purpose there for you?

Yeah, several questions in there. Um Well, there's a complex relationship um between Uh hypnotic suggestions and programming to commit suicide and um the practical need of the cult to keep people alive to use them. Um, so there's this push pull that a lot of us, especially when we're born into it. I mean, we experienced this from birth.

um where uh we're being told to kill ourselves and to live at all costs at the same time. Um and that's part of the cognitive dissonance and the psychic torture aspect of it, just to Um Yeah. Like in your day life, in your front life, did you even know? I was in and out uh in and out of knowledge. Um of course you can't forget things like this, not really. Um they can fade from awareness. Um and that's usually what people call repressed memory. I mean Um

of course my body would be in horrible pain and um I was aware that I was missing time. Um So I couldn't not be aware of it, but I I I stayed as unaware as possible. because um there was very severe torture uh if I if I showed that I remembered an experience, um, there was usually very severe torture. So I learned to hide if I did memor if I did have a memory of something, I learned to hide it.

Um and then over time I learned to lie to myself and, you know, kind of actually repress some of the memories more deeply. So you're talking as a child, if you remembered something and you somebody found out, then you would be tortured to make sure that you would forget again or that you would never even start talking about it. Yeah. And I mean if so

Maybe I should pause uh back up a little bit. Um so uh I was being fragmented into d different personalities from the time I was born. Um, from the time I was an infant. I mean, even before the formation of any coherent personality. um my experience and my sense of self was being fragmented into lots of different altars. So

Uh one thing that would happen if I started telling, you know, about a certain torture experience or a certain um you know sexual experience that I had had. Um that um aspect of me that was telling would be shamed and punished and banished um and made into a separate altar that I wasn't supposed to access. So I have uh many dozens of altars

Some of them quite well thought out, um, and with a lot of thought put into them. And some of them just sort of stopgap experiences like, Oh, that was just a shut up alter, you know, and it Like it's a named individual within me, but its entire purpose is just to stop some certain story from coming out.

Um And so just to ground your beginning of your life, you were in Long Island, basically. Yeah. Um most of most of what I'm describing is taking place in the lower east side of Manhattan. Oh. Yeah. Is that where you lived? Yeah. Okay. So you lived on the Lower East Side and I'm sorry, h when was this happening? When were you born? Um well uh Mm my birth certificate may be a little bit off um

Uh I'm still learning a lot about my background. I um I have other family and siblings who were not supposed to exist um that I was never allowed to be conscious of. So Um I'm still piecing things together. But my birth certificate says I was born in eighty six. Um so I guess I'm thirty seven or so. Okay. So very young. Yeah. Um and everything I'm I'm describing was already happening, I mean, from birth up until

Like around four years old was was when these kind of dissociative systems were pretty solidified. Um so this is very, very early. Like most of this is pre-conscious. So your lower east side and the people around you, some of them are presenting as family members, even if maybe they're not, but they're basically you're surrounded by handlers. Yeah.

While your mother is continuing to be a sex worker? Yeah. And you're her only child? Mhm. Well I mean I'm not actually her only child, but But you're the only one that lived in that place with her. Yeah. So I'm assuming that because she was single also that you were just there's just a lot of people around you all the time that were not. This is true. Yeah.

Good people too? Uh not so much. Um Um When I was a little bit older my uh mother had a a boyfriend who was not in the cult So he was a very positive person for me and he actually later adopted me as an adult and so that's Part of the reason I'm sane today. Um, I did have a few uh healthy people around, healthy adults, um, teachers at school. um, you know, people in outside the family, um and that one boyfriend, but um

He wasn't allowed to see her for very long because the handlers didn't like me having a positive role model. Um so he was cut off from me for uh most of my childhood. Sorry to hear that. Thanks.

So it's... These people that are your handlers, were there any that you were particularly close to? I mean that obviously I mean I was very close to some so Yeah, I had very deep bonds with several of them. Um One uh whose name was Patrick was like an uncle figure to me. Um and uh Yeah, we were very, very closely bonded. Um, I think, you know, um, through all the torture and shame and

confusion, I think there was also some real emotional bonding there, positive emotional bonding. Um so yeah, I have a lot of mixed feelings. Um but he he would be introduced as my uncle sometimes, like if we were out in public um and you know I I was alone with him, that's how he would be described.

But you know for sure he was a handler because he was also abusing you and and he was also training you. Yeah. Yeah, I was being trained um for a wide variety of things. Um Most obviously to accept sexual violence, to perpetrate sexual violence. um to accept and to perpetrate physical violence. Um, I was being trained as a killer. I was being trained also as a breeder for the cult. So I was supposed to create. Many children and I did create many children after I passed through puberty later on.

Um so this is now you're talking yeah, after you pass through pu puberty, so this is in your teens now? Yeah. I'm jumping ahead a bit, but um I'm just saying I was um basically being trained for constant sexual activity from the moment I was born, like absolutely constant. Um and that was normalized as much as possible in my household.

Oh, with your mother as a sex worker, it's kind of normalized already, yeah? Yeah. But she also had a non profit. Yeah. Um She did. She also did a lot of really good work actually rights activist on behalf of uh people with um mental disabilities, especially people who had been um brain damaged. By psychiatric practices like electroshock therapy. How interesting. Yeah. So that's Well, I don't want to get

Just let it flow, see what happens. Um yeah, the the the the cult network uses um electricity, electric torture, electro shock quite Pervasively. Yeah. Um so that was the case for my mother, it was the case for me. Um and me. Sorry to hear that. Um but then also in front life she went through medically prescribed like mainstream psychiatric um electroconvulsive therapy, which is um a whole different thing, similar and related. Um

I mean part of the idea with that was that it would discredit her. Um there's a lot of stigma associated with mental health treatment. Of course. Yeah. So In spite of the fact that her uh issues came from her circumstances. Um, you know, she was kind of isolated and made to feel crazy and um went through quite a few um mental health treatment experiences, mainstream ones. Um some of those were before I was born.

Um Uh yeah, I wasn't there for for some of them, but she she went through um many uh electroconvulsive therapy treatments at at psychiatric hospitals in addition to what was happening at home and in the background. Well, I've worked with several people. You know, I was never in a psychiatric institution. I was never diagnosed even. Yeah, I was just in therapy. But I work with several people who who were surviv who are survivors that have spent a lot of time in psychiatry and have a lot of

And were had handlers right there in on the unit, making sure, basically, that they're not remembering. It's it seems to be always the same the same story. Yeah. That was definitely the case.

So your mother was really in a large sense she was very much a victim and she was very much on the victim side of the network, except that she also abused you? She did. Yeah. Yeah, we had an ins incestuous relationship from birth also. Yeah. That must be so complex. I'm glad it's over. Yeah, my mother also was very much like a victim, always

very sexualized and she also abused me, you know, but she presented very much as a victim on the outside. And of course she was at some point, she was. She was not so much In her adult life when she was my mother, she wasn't really being victimized, but she put herself in these situations all the time where at the very least she got very humiliated.

Yeah, it was m made clear to me uh from the age that I could even hold the thought that my mother was a token and a pawn and I mean she would be raped in front of me and beaten in front of me and you know, it was Yeah. I mean they they wanted me to know that she, you know, w was at the beck and call of others. Yeah. Then you're getting the message that you don't have a mother. Also. Thank you. So th th were some of the handlers perhaps better parental figures or

I guess in some senses. Yeah, some of them were more coherent. Um, and so I was able to bond with them more consistently. That's true. Yeah. But the rape was coming from everywhere. Yeah. They were all they were all um guilty of that. Mhm. Yeah. The normalization of that sex uh sexuality with uh children.

In my public role, I was even supposed to promote that, promote the sexualization. Um But you were supposed to be doing that very much behind the scenes, being an object as well as a perpetrator, and you were were you do you think that you were being groomed to stay in the network? Definitely, yeah. Um, I was supposed to be a breeder for the whole rest of my life, um, after puberty and

Um I was supposed to be supposed to, you know, in their in the cult network way of looking at things. Um I was supposed to be programming others um to have similar experiences to be breeders themselves. Um It was perceived in me that I would make a very good handler myself, that I would make a very good programmer. Um, and so a lot of my training was in that direction as well.

Right. Well actually I know you to be a very creative artistic person. Mm-hmm. Interesting. I mean not not that you don't have many talents, but mostly I know that you you know, you have poetry workshops and poetry classes and you write poetry yourself and you're also a great musician. I've actually experienced that. And uh not just one instrument too, you know, many instruments and uh really beautiful music that you make.

That also runs in my family. Uh my mother was a piano player as well. Oh. Um, mhm. And um yeah, when she was growing up, she uh actually was in piano competitions and things and thought she might make a career out of it. Um I think that may be what she was being groomed for early in her life. Yeah. I mean what a what a turn though. If she was being groomed to be a pianist and then ends up as a sex worker. Yeah, quite a turn. I mean, she was heartbroken, naturally. I mean heartbreak is

Part and parcel of all these experiences. But yeah, I think I think she really hoped. um to be a major classical concert pianist. Um and that was a dream that she dearly cherished. Really? Yeah. Oh my goodness. Well you are The creative person. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's also on both sides of my family. My biological father also plays a lot of instruments and sings and paints and writes and stuff like that. Really? Yeah.

So yes, we talked about that somewhat, but so do you have a sense of what you were supposed to be on the outside? Like your front uh Um well, a few things were It it was ch it was it seemed like it was constantly changing. Um but

I guess what we'd we, uh what my handlers and my mother had sort of settled on um by the time I was becoming a teenager was that I might be an actor. Um, I might be Um there was talk about um going into some sort of comedy thing, being on Saturday Night Live and um that was appealing to me and um thought about it a little bit and um So I'm that may have been a public role role that I was being groomed for a little bit.

How interesting. Um I mean it's sort of like within the network these possibilities are all real. Yeah. So do you remember getting like Trained because I do, you know, like for singing and everything. Well I guess I should yeah. Yeah, I I was. I worked as a model as a child and an actor. Um I was I was supposed to be working as an actor from from a young age, from a from childhood.

Um I did actually work as a model. Um I was on a lot of advertisements and magazines and things. Um As a child. As a child, mm, yeah. Um Supposedly I was you know I was just uh noticed at random in a Starbucks um in downtown Manhattan, like, oh, you know, you have a very photogenic child, like Um I mean uh you know now I know this is Sort of prearranged. Right. There's the that's the story. Yeah. That's the story that's.

you know, it's it sounds very normal. And next thing, wow, you're all over the advertising everywhere. Yeah. So I I did a lot of um magazine advertisements. I did a little bit of T V, um Of course I never saw any of the money from this. It was like totally laundered away, which is infuriating. And your mother didn't see it either. I don't think so. Yeah. Um

But um yeah, and then I was I was supposed to be an actor. Um I had auditions for different films. Um I remember I was supposed to be in a film called Dead Man Walking, I think, or Dead Man on Campus, something like that. Um dead men on camp.

Yeah. I don't know these films they they tell on them on themselves with these titles a little bit. Um and the movie uh the movie came out, it was produced, it's like it's out there with another child actor, not me. um because I totally froze um during the audition process and I didn't do what I was coached to do. Um so I think that kind of threw things off a little bit. Um

And I went through the requisite torture for being a failure and all this stuff. Um and I didn't do a lot of modeling or acting after that. Um so I guess Uh I guess I was on a different track. But it was it was the thing that I found really challenging, like the modeling was easy because I didn't really have to talk. You know, it was mostly still photographs. Um the challenge came when I had to actually

talk and have lines as an actor and I'm like, wait, I'm supposed to be silent and not use my voice and this is like going against that programming. Um and I just couldn't I mean it was Mental overload, you know,'cause if I was using my voice publicly, all sorts of stuff would come out that I wouldn't want to come out. I mean and so that's basically why I froze. Um, I couldn't do it, you know, so it was

Understandable, it's part of the programming. But if I basically if I could get past that hurdle, if I could use if I could learn to use my voice. Essentially as a lie. Um if I could get through that, that's a major crucible. And if you do get through it then Um you're basically on your way to a career as a satanically supported actor. Um but I couldn't do it, I guess. Um and and from then on my voice was very, very shut down.

Um, to the point where when I got away from my mother later on as a teenager, I was practically nonverbal. Wow. Yeah. So interesting.

It was almost like you you're not successful at lying enough so you couldn't even dissociate enough really because I I did some, you know, I mean, not public n I mean, I had a performance singing, but I never acted that but they were preparing me for that also. But it was almost like when I was I felt like I was acting when I was with these m when I was sold to men. I was, you know, going around with this big politician in Germany. Um I

I you know, I was acting too, but but I but I alwa always fully believed it in the moment. And I think that's how the dissociation, the part that I had been made into for to be my persona was gonna be the sort of light and fun and sexy. I was ten. But I was that persona around him and then I also found a lot of pleasure in there because he also really was very nice to me and I think that was a big hook for me.

that these people looked up to me or they you know,'cause they they knew that I'm gonna be a star and so they were already so my treatment was just so much better compared to before but I was completely dissociated and b then believing it hundred percent in the moment, like what you're describing, it almost sounds like you couldn't quite fully hundred percent believe it like you weren't associated enough. I guess not. Thank goodness. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah, and I was ultimately not dissociated enough either, you know, that I I mean I it seems that if you have this um this connection to truth somewhere for whatever reason because the way that you were raised it sounds like you shouldn't have, you know? It's purely sp sometimes it's just pure spirit. It's not You know, I had this person taking care of me in the first three years of my life and I and I felt loved by her and I knew what it was like to be loved, but it but you had something.

that you couldn't do it. It's it's very interesting to me that you the way that you speak about your voice. that you were meant to lie and that you froze because you just not dissociated enough and then somehow shut down completely. Um like if there's no truth there's nothing. That's well said. Yeah. So then yeah, that was probably it's probably about nine at that time, uh, that I'm describing freezing and watching the audition. Um and uh

Yeah, they put me in a in different roles where um non speaking roles. Um It's kind of it's funny how normal acting terms kind of blend with these very abnormal things. Um so then I was I was sort of pulled back and I was used um I was still used sometimes for theatrical purposes, for entertainment, but um usually in a sexually exploitative way or in a silent way. Um I remember being used for a lot of different gatherings, parties, like um

As a sex slave, um and uh essentially as an actor, but mostly a mute one. Um So, um that was definitely the case for some of those years, uh, pre puberty, ten, eleven. Um

And then they started sending me to a breeding compound. Um A breeding compound? Yeah. Okay. What is that? A dedicated facility for for breeding human people? Um in my case, uh this was um in Jalisco in Mexico. Um so I'd be brought down there once I hit puberty and I was on all sorts of Uh steroids and aphrodisiacs and drugs and um I mean it's a it's a very intensive physical program that they put you through when you're slated to be a breeder. Um

Um they, you know, try to induce puberty as early as possible. Um and they put you on different sexual enhancement drugs. Um and different mind numbing drugs and um it really turns you into Uh into I mean it it all you can think about is sex, you know. It's'cause of all the all the drugs that you're on and the environment that you're in.

Um and that's the idea. I mean if if you're in a breeder role you just basically have sex constantly, you're or you're raped more properly. Mm-hmm. Just every day, all day. Mm-hmm. Um so that was the case for me. Um Yeah, starting around twelve or thirteen. So was that place like like a lab? Um, I often compare it to a monastery, to be honest. It was like a satanic monastery. It had kind of a feeling of uh of a cloister. Wow. Yeah.

But it was a breeding facility. Yeah. So there were other children like you? Many, many other children. Yeah. And I would have to rape them, be raped by them, mostly other young girls who had just hit puberty, um, but also f grown women, older women, all sorts of people. So it's a monastery where it's not random sex. But it's sex everywhere all the time. For me that was the experience. I think

there were different roles that I didn't get to experience as much um going on there. But yeah, for me it was basically that. And it wasn't random, it was always someone looking over your shoulder and dri directing you? Pretty much. Yeah. If not in person in the room then, you know, through a camera or a two way mirror or something. Really? Yeah. You know, I actually hadn't heard about the existence of these such a place before. Um, I mean I've heard a lot, obviously, working with people. Yeah.

Yeah, there and there are a few people I can name in connection with this. Um Maybe not at this time, but um Some of them are uh famous or moderately famous people. Um one of them one of them is a m major philanthropist in the Seattle area. Really? Um yeah.

That is connected to that program, that is to say that They have like a big role in it or Um Yeah, a major role. So the philanthrop philanthropist I just mentioned, um, I called her the abbess. She was basically the director, as far as I could tell. I mean of course this is from a child's perspective, so hard to say what's really going on, but

from my perspective she was the abbess of this monastery. Um and basically her word was absolute and um whatever she said went and for me that was usually Yeah, various forms of um Yeah, just sexual functioning. Um I I mean I'd be I would often be chained up for um sometimes days or weeks at a time and um they would just bring in women one after the other. How dehumanizing? Yeah. I do relate. I mean, I was also supposed to be, you know, that persona. Mm that was H nine, from nine to ten.

It was supposed to be a wild sex thing. So I was drugged all all day long. Um all these different kinds of drugs, these little pills I was taking all the time, also to just make sure that I was always constantly I know they were uppers. And uh And then I was also but as the persona but then as the persona even made to participate even in some rituals. But this is all age nine, age ten. So it's kind of really concise for me in the period that this was happening. Yeah.

Yeah, I I should also say um I'm calling this a monastery pretty intentionally. It wasn't just sexual, there was a lot of ritual associated with it. And basically to produce the sort of children that they were interested in, they believed that um different forms of black magic were necessary and so

Um there was a lot of careful planning around that. Um and there was a lot of ritual involved, um prayers and um sacrifices and killings, all sorts of things going into this process basically so that I would conceive um what they consider desirable children. So and this do you think that it's a lot to do with your blood? I think a lot of it has to do with that. Yeah, they're very interested in bloodlines.

Um I mean they're also just very interested in people who um can survive. Um I mean a a lot of Other people, other boys for instance, you know, I would just see them dying, you know, from from just sheer exhaustion, from stress, from all kinds of things. Um And uh but I I was one of the ones who was just there year after year. Yeah. Well I'm really sorry. Thanks.

So you were taken to Mexico obviously and then but you were still officially living in New York City? Officially, yeah. And then did you also go to school and I did. I had many aspects of a normal life in my front life. Yeah. Um So I mean I I I'd be taken away from New York sometimes for weeks at a time.

um during summer breaks for instance, obviously. Or maybe not obviously. But um but yeah, I'd be brought back to New York for a lot of the school year and I p I'd have a relatively normative experience. Um in school during the winters. Yes, and then on the breaks that same with me, like for that year anyway. I was gone the whole summer. I was gone for every vacation and then that was when the training was happening. Or what in your case, what was it? Um yeah, training, breeding, um

I I was brought all over the world and different people were brought to me also because um this breeding process is very intricate. It's very delicate. Um they do a tremendous amount of genealogical research. Um they have agents all over the globe who are looking for um Certain bloodlines but also a certain psychic characteristic.

um other kinds of I don't e I'm not privy to everything they're looking for, obviously. Um but this is a very global program. And so I would sometimes if if it was deemed um helpful to their plans. I'd be brought to other places, other countries. Um or they would bring in women and girls from from outside the US to me.

And like okay, so genealogically you're you're Jewish mostly? Mostly. Yeah, according to Ancestry dot com, like ninety five percent or ninety ninety s ninety something percent Ashkenazi Jewish, yeah. And so

Can you talk a bit because it's just so specific, right? We're talking about bloodlines. I mean for a lot of people that doesn't even mean anything at all. Like who cares usually. So can we can we just talk a little bit about that or what we do know? Sure. Um Well, uh I'm no expert in this area. Um but I do have a lot of experience with people who are. Unfortunately. Yeah. Um

So uh there are different schools of black magic. Um this is my understanding so far. Aga again, I'm not interested in black magic. I don't know a ton about it, like I haven't really researched it on my own, but But for some purposes, um uh the Jewish bloodlines are considered essential to the process, basically. It's like you need a Jewish person to have the desired result of your spell.

Um oh really? Yeah. Okay. I'm not sure why that is. I'm not sure how much is superstition and how much is real. Um but that was definitely the case. Um In many cases, um as I mentioned before this interview when when we were talking, um They uh they need specifically a descendant of Solomon. Um so apparently I qualify for that. Um I have enough of a direct blood relationship to the historical Solomon um that they could use me for these rituals.

Um well I want to stay a little bit with your experience also because you also okay, so I And pretty much everyone that I know and that I speak with was also trained to kill.

And then I know that there are some and that was also part of your experience that are trained as soldiers, children that are trained as soldiers. That is to say more deeper deep more deeply into the Delta programming. Yeah. And then um One person I actually interviewed, uh, Chantal Fray, she didn't speak about that with me, but she has said she has spoken about that, um, I believe in her book, but m maybe also in other interviews for sure. that she was also used for a spectacle

She actually described um a star. It was a birthday present for him and a a famous movie star and she had to fight a large man to the death. And I when we spoke you mentioned that something similar had happened to you. Yes, this is true. Um I was also trained for fighting. Um and uh well, very dirty fighting, fighting to kill. Um and I had a whole period of my earlier life, um

I guess this was um just before I I was uh or it overlapped a little bit with my modeling career. Um I was sold to a man that I knew as Louis Velou. And I'm I feel okay using the name because I'm pretty sure it's a pseudonym. Um I very much doubt it's his legal name. But um this guy named Louis Velou was um Essentially part of um organized crime in in Lower Manhattan in Chinatown. And he was one of my handlers growing up. And I had a very intense relationship with him, um, on many levels. Um

there was a period where he was grooming me essentially to take his position. Um and As a in the mafia then? Essentially, I mean I'm not Totally clear on the details, but it's some aspect of the mafia or organized crime, um uh and I had to do a lot of physical violence towards other children as part of his initiations. Um And some of that culminated in public death matches, cage matches with other children in Chinatown, um, for paying audiences. Um how would an audience I mean this must all be

inside the network. I can't imagine that there'd be something like that that anybody could ever figure out. And it's happening right in downtown. I'm imagining the invitations were very uh exclusive, yeah. I I strongly doubt any random people would find out about it. And what kind of places would this even happen in? Really? I mean to be honest, I was often drugged and blindfolded and taken to these places. So, um, it's often hard to say where exactly they are. Um

I know some of them are in wealthy enclaves outside the city, like in Westchester County, um, you know, upstate a little bit. Um I was taken to places like that. Um but then there are also versions of it that happen right in Chinatown, you know, just in basements in Chinatown. Um which is, you know It it seems like just some sort of racist fantasy that someone would have, but um but it really does happen there.

And the idea that you would want to go and see two children fight to the death, that it could only be network where the people that are really in it and believe in it, they don't even see a child in a child. They don't even see what a child is. They just see creatures that are below them or something. That's true. Yeah. Like yeah, like cock matches, like animals fighting. Pretty much like that. Except more exclusive. More exclusive, more expensive, yeah. Mm-hmm. Amen.

And you did tell me that you saw some uh prominent uh people present at some of these events. Yeah. Um Yeah, I uh there different um politicians would show up sometimes, actors would show up sometimes. Um And a lot of the really wealthy people who are anonymous would show up, of course. Um And um some of them I still don't know their names, but um people in positions of power within the cult. Um But uh yeah, I um

I'm I've been thinking through, you know, different names and if I want to name people and Totally fine. And we can cut it out if um you change your mind also, that's no problem. But also

Yeah, let's just uh let me ask you, is it's like when we're talking about levels, right? Is it like on the on the local level, is it on the state level, is it on the national level, is it on the international level? It's on every level. I I think I I mean I I saw people who I didn't necessarily know, but I understood them to be prominent people of other countries, international politicians and leaders, definitely. Um There are um

Catholics who participate in this practice. Um there was You mean you mean clergy? Yeah. Yeah. Um there were Jesuits specifically. Um Many yeah, many different kinds of there were um officials from from abroad there um So uh some of my ancestry is Hungarian. And um there were people from who I understood to be some basically high ranking Hungarian politicians who would be there, um, who were particularly interested in my career as a fighter, apparently.

Um yeah. Uh so I mean there's seems to be a very established practice of these kinds of things. Um and um Yeah. I I almost died several times. Um naturally. Of course. Yeah. Um had my scalp like ripped off of my head almost entirely and had to recover from that. Um Uh You mean you have weapons? Um usually not. Um but uh people are always sneaking things in, you know, little blades or um poisons or you know it's not it's

Of course, you know, even even even if you place restrictions on it, people are gonna find ways around it. So um yeah, I was taken by surprise quite often. Um I mean I'm just glad I'm still alive. Um, Louie was very fond of needles, um and he was an expert in manipulating these very small needles that could basically be hidden um sort of under a fingernail usually, um that could be very deadly. Um so there were quite a few weapons, but they were concealed.

So I I I I did have an experience that similar but it's not exactly the same because I was never made to fight children, you know, for a spectacle, but I was Um but I I was and it I felt like it was the So the the part of the training in Germany that I that I underwent that was for the killing, it felt like it was the the final like like that that's your graduation. It felt like that. Mm-hmm. And I was

Um put in a in a room that had white leather padding, you know, maybe it was a psychiatric hospital. And There was a there was a peep uh there was a door the peephole and there I know that though it was big enough and I could I could see that the m person who owned me at the time was was was watching. Mm. I assumed that it was filmed. I assume that this was actually a snuff film. Mm-hmm that I was a child you know, I was the the the the little child who was naked.

And two people were brought in adults. Yeah. And I know that I need I had to kill them. And I felt that they didn't know what was gonna happen. And I think that I I have a feeling that the film, the snuff film, it was the the surprise element was what was what they were after. Um so that's the experience I had that resembles that. That it resembles that. But it wasn't it wasn't really a fair match to tell you the truth. Because I had a weapon and they didn't, and of course

Yeah, it's maybe hard to to think that a child, you know, is capable of that, but then we were trained. We were. Yeah. So the idea, I just have the this image now, you know, of the Lower East Side, a basement, children in cages. Being made to fight to the death, I mean Yeah. And I'm sure it was also girls, correct? I usually didn't have to fight girls, but it did happen.

So my next question obviously That seems natural to follow this is that now you did survive, amazing survivor, yet you were not completely on board. There was this little thing inside of you that, you know, your truth somehow, you know. So you go you you w we have to do so much, we have no choice. Um first you got out, like we talked a little bit about it. How do you feel comfortable talking a little bit about it?

Well, a lot of things were happening. Um as I approached uh being an older teenager after I'd been a breeder for already three or four years, um, when I was around sixteen, um

It was made clear to me that they wanted me to assume positions of authority and greater power. Um, that they wanted me to become a handler and a programmer, maybe someone like Louis, someone who could Basically they saw um they saw that I had great aptitude for training, for teaching, for guiding, um and they wanted to use that uh to guide people into these forms of depravity. And for that to work, it became it became increasingly important for them to have my consent. Um because You can't

Essentially they couldn't trust me to do the job unsupervised unless they had my full consent. I mean full, I don't know about full, but You know, they they had to ensure that I wasn't just doing it because I was being coerced. It had to come from inside me. Um I mean any teacher of anything who's good at what they do will tell you that's necessary for teaching, regardless of the subject, regardless of

Whether it's ethical or not. Yeah. Um so I think there's some wisdom there. Um So essentially they there were a period of years, especially it was very heavy when I was about fifteen, sixteen, where they were presenting me with anything they could discern that I desired. Absolutely anything. I mean, you know, I I I would desire some actress, for instance, and she'd just be brought in for me to rape if I wanted. Or, you know, I any anything that I thought of. I mean

you know, like, oh, you wanna we we're speaking within the narrow confines of your breeder training, of course, you know. Like you desire but then you're completely programmed, so you know this I think I mean d yeah, desire I I eventually learned that my desires were much broader than I had been led to believe, um, thankfully, and I appreciate that grounding. It's the Um But um yeah, I mean they they Uh I I went through very intensive um

Attempts to entice, I guess. Um they they took me to private islands um in the Bahamas. um showed me basically how some of the trainers were living. Would that be like the Jeffrey Epstein Island? Um, among others, yeah. You were you were there? I was there. And he was he owned it at that time, I'm assuming. Yeah. And you came across him too, by any chance? I did. I've heard a lot about him from privately from people. Mm-hmm. You know. Yeah, he's relatively safe to name these days. Uh Yeah.

It's been a while since I thought about him. I I I he was never I didn't get that close to him personally. I would just see him around. Um I mean when I was being taken to these islands I would see um all kinds of popular and famous people. Um about about Epstein himself. Um He was really able to switch on a dime. um from you know, absolute murderous rage killing to just completely pleasant and like affable and his uh

I I guess um his programming was more successful than mine. Um because he could he really He was very quick on his feet and um totally changed to suit the situation always. Um that's probably why he was in the role that he was in. Um yeah, I remember that about him, tremendously versatile.

um and very good code switcher and just really you know, he could deal with the high minded and the low minded and um just kind of Uh bring everybody to their basis level and send them on their way to um to experience. whatever horrible things they might want. Um so I mean it was a well run operation. Obviously it wasn't just him, like huge numbers of people on these islands specifically. Um incredibly disciplined staff. Not that I'd want to use discipline in for things like that, but

Um No but uh I mean i there's a lot of science behind it and it's you know, it works. Yeah. Yeah, that's what you mean, right? That th that the staff is very well disciplined, like everybody knows exactly what they do and it works. Yeah. So I can't I can't speak that much to him because I never had that much of it of his attention. It's just like sizing me up for something and then immediately on to the next person. So Um I can't say I was ever

So that was on his island particularly, if he sized you up for something and he went immediately on to the next that was on on his island. Yeah. So y this is at the time when you're a teenager and you're being enticed you're being shown what you can have basically if you if you follow along. Yeah. You can be like him. Uh yeah.

Needless to say that was not so appealing to me, but Um but it is it's really gross. I mean, the amount of wealth that was just on display. I mean, literally anything you want. I c I could have owned my own island if I wanted, you know. Um if I cared about that sort of stuff more, um, I'd probably still be in the call. Um, but thankfully I don't. So um basically it c it came to a point where They just couldn't use me anymore uh without consent.

um or th or not for any role that they would want me for. Essentially they they basically said, We're done with you unless unless you want to join and and make this your own thing.

Yeah, so I've heard about like the five I wills, you know, in the programming that um the children, you know, go through these steps and normally at thirteen is the last I will and then the thirteen is then the age that they become, let's say Willing participants in um all the harm. I guess that rings true for me'cause they were trying to convince me very aggressively from thirteen to sixteen, um, to convert or whatever you call it. Yeah. Yeah. Um

It's not like I was innocent at this time. I I ha I had plenty on my conscience. There's plenty that I was forced to do, you know, beyond just the cage matches. I I couldn't even begin to describe all of it, the rapes and killings that I was forced to participate in. Um so it's not like I, you know, was necessarily above any of this, you know, I had

uh sadistic murderer alters who, um, when in the right circumstances, on the right drugs with the right handler, um, you know, easily could kill dozens of people. So So I can empathize with that experience and that sort of mentality. Um Yeah, so I don't wish to indicate that I'm uh above any of that. But uh'cause you just Oh we can't like no child goes through that experience. that is prepared to be part of it. I mean, it was also the same for me in the year.

Again, nine to ten only, but you know, discovered in at age nine and then trained for one year, but it was a lot of promises, so I think it's the same, you know, the the the promises that were made about m what my life was gonna be like, it had a lot to do with wealth. Yeah. Had a lot to do with well the fame of course, but the respect I was always gonna get, the the apartment the best apartment in Paris and the house on the Côte d'Azur and the Yacht, I mean it was all

told me s repeatedly that I would picture, you know, this very easy and and and and and luxurious lifestyle. Yeah. Yeah. So um So it's a lot to say no to. Just just to just to mention it. Like yeah. We were children and we said, No, I don't think so. That that takes something, you know? That takes guts for sure.

Um there was a lot of back and forth for me from thirteen to sixteen. I mean each time I said no in a different way, I would be tortured in a different way. Um and They would try to basically kill the altar who had said no and create another altar that they could talk to. To start the conversation over. So So you actually went through a lot of torture. I did. Because you didn't want to th from thirteen to sixteen you did not give them the last I will, it sounds like. I didn't.

No. I uh what was really liberating for me was um I think it was fourteen. was my first um real suicide attempt, um, in in the context of being tortured to try to elicit my allegiance. Um and um Yeah, I I was being held um in a cell. Um I believe it actually was in the Bahamas somewhere. Um a very warm place. And I managed to find a way to cut myself to to slit my wrists. Um, and I was committed to it. I was like, okay, this is my only way out.

Um and they wouldn't they wouldn't let me go through with it. They you know, they found me, they resuscitated me. Um, I healed. Um And that was kind of when I started to realize that I actually had some power in the situation. Like I never thought that I did before that. It was like, well I'm gonna you know, as basically like I'm gonna have to yield to this.

at some point'cause I I don't have any other option. But but after the suicide attempt I was like, Oh, I do have other options. Like I do actually have some power. They're trying to get something from me that I don't actually have to give Um and that was very, very empowering. Um yeah. And resulted in a lot more torture and attempts to erase my memory again and a lot of electroshock. horrible, horrible electroshocks, especially at fifteen. Um

Uh yeah, but I just wouldn't do it I guess. Good for you. Oh thanks. Yeah. Yeah, awesome that you're sitting here. Yeah, because I again I speak to many people, but everyone's experience is different. And my my sense of your experience is that it was like nonstop. Yeah. Yeah. All the time, you know, and you have to befriend them and y you know, you you're a child, you have attachment issue, you know, you have no choice.

So that some of those s slaves from uh child slaves, it's like non stop, nonstop. Y and like you said, you know, you were used all the time. Oh, it's unbelievable that you're sitting here.

I'm very happy about it. Um Yeah. So and there are also some more esoteric aspects to this, um, that have to do with raising your spiritual vibration. So that's the other aspect of it. So it wasn't just that they couldn't use me as a trainer, although that was obvious obviously the main practical concern. Um but m my more sensitive handlers were also um Making me aware, not intentionally, but um

Oh, I haven't really touched on this yet, but there's a whole psychic battle that goes along with the physical battle. Um of course. Yeah. Um and it just plays into how I got out, so I I guess it's time to mention it. So it came to my attention essentially that um my core vibration, my my soul signature, um, was raising to a point where they couldn't harness it anymore. Um so I still am wondering kind of what that means in practice. I hear you know, I

I talk about raising your vibration in a spiritual context. Um I'm glad you wonder. Yeah. Because obviously it's it's on everyone's lips today, you know. Raising our vibration is like, okay, let's like not bypass now. Let's like look at what what you who you are, what you do. Well apparently this is a real thing. It's real enough that my handlers perceived it and cared about it deeply. Um the core of it seems to be moving from fear-based experience to love-based experience.

Well, you realize you had power to say no. Yeah. And the battle that begun then that must mm match on a spiritual level too. Yeah. That's true. A lot more of my spirit entered my body after the suicide attempt. A lot more actually. I became a lot more myself. I became aware that I had a massive existence beyond the life that I had known up to that point. Um I became aware of a lot of spiritual information, a lot of past lives and future lives.

Um I was much more in touch with my guides after that. I mean a lot of people say this after a near death experience. It's almost universal. I had one too. Yeah. Um But just to validate that again. F on each person again, you know. But so it seems like for you it was extremely revelatory as yeah in a on a spiritual level and it was.'Cause after that I mean I never

I don't know, I never left myself in the same way after that. Like no matter what happened, I mean I I left my body ob obviously,'cause I was being horribly tortured still. But um but I was able to stay with myself in a spiritual sense and kind of witness what was happening even after I would leave my body. Um and that also was

Yeah, a tremendous revelation, as you say. Um, kinda helped me get a hold of myself on some deeper. Yeah. Deeper levels. Um But I I I know what you're m what you mean because the Overcoming the fear, isn't that the task of all humanity? Yeah. To c align with love and overcome fear? Isn't this the dual the dual realm here that has basically fear on one side, love on the other side, and we're just all in between and

Isn't it our task really? Isn't that a spiritual what we're here to do ultimately? Yes, this is the task of all humans. And that doesn't mean not to be cautious. But it does mean to overcome fear. Mhm. And of course trauma is all about fear. Yeah. Trauma inducing trauma is all about inducing fear. Yeah. And look how we overc I mean, I I feel like this is more recent experience for me. I don't know in my childhood, but in m in more recent in my healing, I reached a place where I had to say, well,

I can't say that I'm horribly afr I'm and I I don't wanna, you know, jinx anything of course, saying that, but I don't feel that I'm horribly afraid. It's more like I feel more deeply aligned with love. But that's a place that I reach through healing. So obviously you must have pre positioned yourself to begin to heal by that by that. Yeah, that's true. Um Yeah. And honestly things kind of aligned to help me get free of the cult at that time in pretty miraculous ways.

So also some some practical results of raising a vibration. Um yeah, incredible synchronicity started to happen. Um where uh Yeah, a lot of things I still can't explain. Um But um I I ran away from home at sixteen

um ish. It's a convoluted story in and of itself, but the short version is I ran away from home and I wound up living with uh my best friend at the time in high school'cause I s you know, I still had my front life. I had high school friends and things amazingly. Um I wasn't verbal, but I would sort of mime what I what I wanted to express. So I managed to create friendships that way. It doesn't take much as a teenager also. But um It's like, oh, we like the same video games. Ah

Um but anyway I I found solace with um with this friend of mine and I wound up living with his family. Um I literally left my mother's house and I was living with this friend and the friend was not a cult person. They were f they were a theater family, which was very familiar for me. Right. Um, but as far as I can tell, a non cult one. Right. Plenty of'em. Yeah. Um and that was that was really good for me. So sixteen turning seventeen.

I never really went back um after that to the home I had come from. Um Yeah, I I just stayed with that family. Um and I went to college on my own um at seventeen and yeah and out of out of New York and um yeah, really just started a process of uh getting free, which continues to this day, on more and more subtle levels. Yes. Um yeah. Well you have so When you know, I understand you first it's about getting out, same for me. Mm-hmm. And then when did the healing start for you?

Well, it really started after my suicide attempt, which I appreciate. I appreciated you kind of pointing that out. It really started there. But my my conscious like self-healing, you know, on the physical levels, on the emotional levels. Um that started well also it started when I when I got away to this family and um they showed me compassion and they showed me what a more sane adult lifestyle might be. For sure. Um you know, they they were not without their problems, but but they were so

So far from anything I experienced. Yeah. So normal. It was that was also a revelation. I'm just like, oh like You know, you just work at a community theater and Like there's no there's nothing secret about it. Like, that's amazing. Or like my my friend's dad was like, Oh yeah, you work as a stage manager. Like It's like it's like I mean I I know there's a lot that can go with that that is cult connected, but it just seemed very clean and very normal and it's like, oh wow, like people can live

without any c connection, like successfully, you know, they can be okay. You know, they can like Yeah. But burning question, um having been trained as a breeder and having been, you know, so you know, manipulated sexually from the beginning of your life. When you then end up in a normal family and you have that training behind you, doesn't what I mean Yeah. Well I was pretty out of it. Um I was very nonverbal. I was

in a constant state of extreme confusion. Um But you were not compulsive sexually. Uh Not really. No, thankfully. I mean Compulsive in more subtle ways, um compulsive with video games, compulsive with other things, but No, I kind of froze sexually, um, which was my solution at that time. Well, that's healthy. I mean that's a great that that's a g I mean

Yeah, that's my celibacy, you know. That's yeah, fantastic. And not that there's nothing to heal, but I have to heal everything else first, it seems. Yeah. Yeah, I was pretty frozen. at that time, seventeen, eighteen, um I started trying to have some girlfriends in my free life and it was extremely awkward and overwhelming and I couldn't do anything sexual for a very long time. Um Yeah, that took s some years to unravel. Um

Yeah. But I guess, yeah, in retrospect, freezing was not a bad choice. Mm-hmm. Um probably saved me from I could have very easily gotten back into cult circles probably acting out sexually, so Um, I'm glad I didn't at that time. Right. Yeah. And of course I n you know, I've been in the healing process and, you know, in the beginning I u used to write a lot and then, you know, always a lot of therapy and then for me yoga and medit I mean it's all everything is in the context of healing. Yeah.

Okay, so Yeah, my healing stuff. Yeah. Um well I went to uh Marlborough College in Vermont. Um that's where I went at seventeen. And um pretty quickly I started getting into Some healing practices, some spiritual practices. Wow. Um There was a Quaker meeting in that area, um, a lot of Quakers in Vermont, um, where a bunch of students from the college would pile into the back of a pickup truck um and we'd drive over to the Quaker meeting. Um

And that was really good. That was my first experience of group meditation, you know, sane group meditation for for actual spiritual purposes. Um it was so nice. Like that was really the first time I experienced a group of people being silent together with that level of intention and um it's very beautiful. Um just these little Quaker meetings in basically a converted barn in southern Vermont. Um so I'm grateful for those.

I had a um actual relationship for the first time a couple of years later and that was, you know, with a non cult person and that was also quite informative and Um found someone who's willing to be patient with my freezing. Um that was really good. Yeah, my my father was helping me a lot.

Um eventually well um I guess my big watershed moment when I really started getting my memories back,'cause at this time they were still pretty blocked off. Like I couldn't talk about them. I sort of still had them, but I they were very far from my consciousness. Mhm. Um The thing that really brought it together was um I had a summer job when I was about probably m yeah, around this time, nineteen, maybe twenty, um, as a summer camp counselor. Um, and just working with kids. I mean,

is guaranteed to bring up all the stuff. You know, if you're a survivor of intense childhood trauma, like immediately like just brings it up. Um And again, like I was just synchronistically guided to these kind of perfect situations in retrospect. Um, the camp that I was working at. um the previous summer to my arriving there um had gone through a molestation event um and so the camp was

Basically on lockdown, everybody was in fear, like, oh my god, the camp's gonna get shut down. Um, they replaced the camp director with somebody who Only does like recovery situations basically. Like that's his job is to go around and like, you know, manage molestation. the issues and and like try to bring camps back to life if they can be brought back. Um so that whole experience was a pressure cooker.

um and just like being a counselor and being under all this scrutiny for molestation specifically, um, Rat was bringing up stuff and um I had my first really big chunk of of sex trafficking memories come back in a dream, um, as I was working that job. Oh wow. Yeah. And um I just woke up sobbing and sobbing and sobbing. Um Cause you immediately knew.

Yeah. It was like intuition. You knew it's an intuitive dream and that there's no question and boom. It wasn't it was a memory, it was a straight up memory. It was not fabricated at all. It was not imaginative. It was like dreams and they wonder. Oh yeah. I just mean for this specific context. Of course there are plenty of imaginative dreams. I just

This was like this was just a a reliving of memory while I was asleep. Yeah. Yeah, I've had memories through dreams as well. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Come always. Yeah.

So yeah, that was I was off to a good start at that point. Um found ways to stumble along. Um I finally went to therapy, like actual trauma therapy, um, which I was terrified to do because So basically nineteen to like twenty four, twenty five or so, I I I was traveling around, um, studying different spiritual practices, doing different art practices.

Um but I was too scared to work with a therapist because I I thought they would just be a cult person and I thought I would understand, right? Yeah. I li look at your mother. Yeah. I thought I would be abducted and electroshocked and stuff and Which, yeah, seems like a very reasonable fear in retrospect. Um I yeah. But um I also started studying Zen Buddhism. I studied with different Zen teachers around US and around the US and Canada. Um started getting more grounded in my meditation practice.

Um that was pretty good. And the kind of militaristic feeling of of Japanese Zen, especially Rinzai Zen. Yeah. It is. It's a little militar militaristic. That was very familiar to me. I was like, oh okay, like discipline bordering on sadism like got it. So yeah, that was actually D did he get a Zen master? Um I did. I I had a few. Um Yeah. My favorite teacher is in Portland, still working. His name's Satya Vayu. He's not really aligned with anything.

particular school, which I appreciate. He's kind of doing his own thing. Um in terms of like hereditary Japanese Zen masters. No. Um that's the one. Oh well I was just gonna mention um uh Joshu Sasaki Roshi. um gave me Dharma transmission where where you kind of are empowered to um do s do some teaching or um to share something with others. Beautiful. Which you do also. Which I do. And then um yeah, that was that was a good grounding in meditation. Um and when I was, yeah, twenty five or so

Um found a wonderful trauma therapy place, the Crime Victims Treatment Center in New York City. Wow. Um yeah, strongly recommend it. Wow. Um What happened over two and a half years going to the trauma therapy was quite incredible. Um W when I began that process, I was still in a semi-verbal state. And when I came out of it, I was like speaking as I am now.

So that in and of itself is quite indicative of the power of good trauma therapy. Um Was there like a specific moment? That your voice was released? It came in waves. My girlfriend at the time noticed it happening and it was basically like, Oh, you're speaking in complete sentences. And then like A few months later, you're talking in paragraphs. So it just it came really gently, really gradually, um over that time. Um

I think it really accelerated after my primary therapist earned my trust. And that was the first time I actually trusted another human being. And trust is radical in what it can do. Yeah. And that allowed you then to speak the truth. Yeah. Right. I was probably about seven or eight months into the therapy. Um, and extremely self-conscious about wasting everyone's time. Like, oh, I don't know what to talk about. Uh

And just constantly getting the message like, talk about whatever you want, this is your time, you know? Very nurturing. Fortunately the therapist that I had had a lot of experience working with teenagers. Um And functionally at that time, even though I was ten years past being a teenager, I was still very much one on the inside. Um, so it was a good fit for me. Um

She just kept holding the space for me and yeah, eventually I decided I could talk about actual trauma. Like we didn't talk about any actual trauma. That was also a really key, like To not overwhelm me. Like for the first easily five months, like, yeah.

So they were we were in it to win it. Um I mean, yeah. I honestly I think this is kind of good advice for providers working with people who have really extreme trauma background and no therapy background, like it's good to start out really, really slow. Like really slow. It depends on the person. You know, when people come to me usually, you know. Sometimes people come to me, they don't know their history, really, but they come to me. Mhm. So

You know, I'll just ask how are you? you know, but some sessions in and they're getting memories of SRA. This is true. I shouldn't speak for everybody. Let's say for P teenagers or people in a teen teenage teenage mentality. For some people f absolutely, yeah. All right, never mind the Blake statements. We'll just throw those out. Well, clearly for you it was extremely important that we had that person who was very but

I feel like these five months this person was creating an atmosphere of safety for you, emotional safety for you. Mm-hmm. That all your parts knew by five months in that all your parts somehow got the message that It's all right. This is true. We could take risks here. Yeah. Yeah, that happened. Very nice. Yeah. So after that things started coming relatively quickly. Um

And I still talked about things in very childish terms, um which was what I needed to do at the time, because it was mostly children speaking inside me. They needed the chance to Well A um realized that they had not in fact died. They were alive and had been banished, but they were not dead. That was a m major realization. And not only were they not dead, but they now had an opportunity to integrate and grow up. It's like, ah.

Oh that's cool. Yeah, I've never heard anyone speak about it this way and you know, because of what you said earlier that the the parts that there were when you started speaking about things, that you remembered things when you were a child, then the programming was you were tortured until you were then told that this part was dead specifically and then now you realize but I've had dead parts show up

And then yes, yes, you know. Uh slowly come back to life. Sometimes me holding that part, you know. And then come back to life and then Yes. Grow up and integrate even. But um I've never heard it's true, it's for you, it's like this realization like not dead. It's true, the parts are not dead. They're just in a a state of extreme freeze or believing that they're dead. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Once all these people inside me realized they were not dead, um then they started to come to terms with being part of a big system of personalities. And that was A big process. I never even got an official DID diagnosis. from my first therapist. Like I got CPTS D, which is like, you know the complex, yeah. The the complex post-traumatic stress disorder, kind of the catch all for everyone who's been through really extreme experiences. Um on a regular basis. Um yeah, but I

I guess I eventually figured out I had alters and learned about what DID was. Not from my therapist. This was actually later. So um I had about two and a half years at the Crime Victims Treatment Center. Um and towards the end of that time they basically said, Um, you're doing great Um, and we ran out of funding. Like basically that's like the longest that anybody would ever go to this place. Like it's like unheard of for somebody to go more than two years.

Um it's supposed to be for like people in very acute trauma recovery. Well, it was acute for two and a half years, absolutely. It could have been acute longer. It would have been very cute if it was longer, but Um yeah, but uh Yeah, basically they're like, Okay, you're you're you're no longer in crisis. There's more to work on. But but you're stable enough that you can graduate from this thing. Okay. All right. Yeah. Which was I had mixed feelings about. I was like, I'm just getting started.

Yeah, but I I respect that, you know. They they have limit it's like a state funded thing. They have pretty limited resources and I I definitely got the full benefit of those resources. So But you had to lose your therapist. I did. Which is a sad painful part. Yeah.

Oh well. So then I went through a period of some confusion like, oh I Don't I went through a few therapists who were just like not doing it for me. Right. Um And that's when I started sort of reaching out a little bit more to other survivors. That's that's when I met you. Mm-hmm. Um and I was going to twelve step groups, I was going to Survivors of Incest Anonymous. Um and like just Opening things up, um finding other people who were trafficking survivors.

And then finding out that most of those people were also ritual abuse survivors. And we had our group even. Yeah, we had a group going on. And that was meeting in person, I mean unheard of. Yeah. That was very normalizing for me, positive. Mm-hmm. Um also around that same time I started to

look into a little bit of YouTube disclosure about these kinds of things, um, like the kind of content we're currently creating. Um I found a little bit of it from other people um and really helped. Like, I mean every time I would watch an interview like this, like a part of me would just activate and be like, Oh, that's real? I didn't imagine that. Like, holy crap. And then, you know, go into like extreme terror.

But, you know, eventually come back and be like, oh oh, that's real. That's I can accept that that's real. Um So yeah, going to the support groups and hearing other interview videos like really started opening things up. And I joined um a chat group. I joined your chat group. Um I didn't know. Yeah. Yeah. Where where people were just talking openly about ritual abuse, like Yeah. Yeah. Hundred hundred people in the s in the chat group at the moment. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Um yeah, and that that really helped me start putting some pieces together. Did you come with your name? I mean I I don't remember Oh gosh, I forgot. Sorry, yeah. Um I think so. Yeah, I think I did. I must have forgotten, yeah. It must have been in the beginning. Yep. It's all good. Yeah, yeah. It was um yeah, just when we changed away from WhatsApp around that time. Gotcha, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I w I was on WhatsApp when I joined. But yeah. Um yeah, and then and then also I had a new spiritual teacher at that time um who uh kind of covered this a little bit, but she helped me integrate more visioning practices like into my meditations. And the way she was teaching was very different from the Zen Buddhist way. It was much more, you know, channeling stuff and um New Age belief, starseed terminology kind of started coming into my life. Um and of course this was all

aligned with the experience I was actually having, but before that I wouldn't have used that language for it. So I kind of acquired some new language and it helped me open out a little bit more. Um Yeah, and between all these things I kind of entered the phase that I'm in now. Oh beautiful. Yeah.

with the the childhood that you had and I know it was from birth, you know, so it's not um like me. Um even though I didn't have a good first year's either, but it was not like yours, you know, where there was so much abuse. happening from all sides and so extreme right from the beginning all the way through that it seems that without spirituality

without connecting to the higher power, without connecting, how could you ever really heal from that? Because you can't How could you ever get y you would be stuck in the ego and the ego is so wounded? Yeah. How can you There has to be a force which is greater than the forces that abused us. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't have to be explicitly spiritual. Uh-huh. Um, although it is definitely for me. Um

you know, it can be just creative. I mean, even before I could bear to talk about spirituality, I feel like I've done that also kind of in stages, like I it's taken some time for me to acknowledge myself as a spiritual person. But like before that, I would just say, I believe in creativity, I believe in creative force, you know. Um it can be pretty agnostic, like it doesn't have to be.

Absolutely. Because it's about experience more than about belief. Yeah. Yeah. But the point is that whatever you're putting your faith in is more powerful than the than the cult network. That's kind of the The big thing. Yeah. And then you have to believe that there is something greater and you had that through your

Suicide um you know, your suicide attempt when you went to the other side and had a near death experience. Yeah, this is true. Amazing. Yeah. So I just I know that we didn't go through everything of your healing, but I wanted to just ask if there's something that you you know, to close if there's something that you still wanna share, that you really wanna share and Yeah, lots. Um Well love love is is is the highest force there is. I mean

Yeah, if if you don't believe in spiritual love, at least you can believe in personal love.'Cause we need that as humans just to function and, you know, believe in our own lives, that our lives matter. So Uh love in all its forms. Yeah, is is the highest power and like there's like no matter what level you're relating to it on, you can't be wrong, you know? It's infinite. And and w however much of it you can receive or even believe to exist Like, Ha ha. Yeah. Thank you. Sure.