Welcome to the Animal Training Academy podcast show. I'm your host Ryan Carledge and I'm passionate about helping you master your animal training skills using the most positive and least intrusive approaches. Here at ATA we understand that navigating the vast challenges you encounter in training requires a comprehensive base of knowledge and experience. It's common to face obstacles and rough patches on your journey that can leave you feeling overwhelmed and stressed.
Therefore, since 2015 we've been on a mission to empower animal training geeks worldwide. We've aided thousands in developing their skills, expanding their knowledge, boosting their confidence, and maximizing their positive impact on all the animal and human learners they work with. We are excited to do the same for you. Simply visit www.atamember.com, join our vibrant community and geek out with us.
And of course, in the meantime, enjoy this free podcast episode as we explore new ways to help you supercharge your training skills, grow your knowledge, and build your confidence so that you can craft a life that positively impacts every learner you encounter. I will start today's episode where I'm excited to talk to Simone Muller. Simone is a Certified Dog Trainer and Dog Behaviour Consultant from Germany.
She specializes in force-free anti-predation training and is the author of the books of the Predation Substitute Training Series. Simone is proud to be an Associate Trainer at the Scotland-based Loflorian Dog Training Club and a member of the initiative of Force -Free Dog Training, the Pet Professional Guild and the Pet Dog Trainers of Europe. So without further ado, it's my very great pleasure to welcome Simone to the show today, who's patiently waiting by on the other side of the world.
Simone, thank you so much for taking the time to come and hang out with us at Animal Training Academy. Hi Ryan, thank you very much for the invitation. I can't wait to learn more about what you do and learn about your story. I've seen you pop up, Simone, here, there and everywhere on the interwebs, so it's great to bring you into the ATA fold. But let's get started and dive straight in, Simone.
I love hearing about people's journeys and how they got started and how they got to where they are today. So I was hoping you could take us back, take us back to where you first started to learn about training, about behavior, about dogs and share some stories with us. Right, I think it's quite a common story and I guess you might have heard it before. It all started with my first dog. It was in, oh my gosh, it was so long ago, 2002, when I had my first own dog.
Before that, we had a family dog, but she was the first dog that I was responsible for training and all the stuff that you need to do when you are a dog mom, basically. So right from the start, I was pretty sure that I wanted to do some training with her and also some dog sports. I did agility with her, which was quite new and hot at that time, at least in Germany. Her name was Malinka.
When she was about two years old, 18 months old, she developed a crazy prey drive and I had no idea how to deal with that. So this was the very first moment when I came into contact with prey drive and how to deal with it. By then, there were no structured training protocols out there available. Nobody really knew how to deal with it, especially in a positive or force-free way. So this was quite a journey and a challenge. And so did you just go straight into positive reinforcement training?
Did you know about that before you got your dog or how did you first come into contact with that kind of training? Were you lucky enough to have missed the bad stuff? Yeah, I was quite lucky that in my area, I had a person who was really proficient at clicker training and I contacted him and we talked a lot and he showed me a lot about what you can basically do with clicker training. But it was all about trick training at that time and I enjoyed trick training really a lot with my dog.
She knew so many tricks. So this was the first time when I learned about positive reinforcement training. Yeah, but I had no idea how to transfer this into more behavior problems. At that time, I didn't even know that it was called behavior modification. All that stuff I didn't know. So I knew that everything was fine when we were in the living room practicing our tricks. We had a lot of fun. Everything was fine when we did agility or when we were in our obedience classes.
But when I took Malinka for a walk, which I live very rural, so we have a lot of woodland, a lot of fields. I always came across wildlife, deer, rabbits, and she was out of control. So the first approach was with a drag line. By that time, it was only known from hunting training. So from gundog training. So I used a long line from hunting supplies. I had no real idea what to do with this drag line.
So can you explain for those listening in terms of gundog training and tell me if I've got the incorrect place from where you got that piece of equipment. But what is a drag line traditionally used for? And I'm getting the sense that you kind of just attach it to your dog and you were thinking, now what? Yeah, exactly. So the German gundog training is very different from English gundog training.
So we basically do not even call it gundog training, but I don't know an English word for it, where you train your hunting dogs to be out with you as a hunter in the field. And these field leashes are mainly used for tracking. So when you have a deer, for example, that was wounded by a shot, but it's not dead yet. And then you put a longer drag line onto your dog that is supposed to follow and track down this wounded animal. So this is where it came from. Yeah. And so what happened next?
How did you figure out what your next approximation was going to be? So this was quite a trial and error thing. So I went to a couple of trainers in the area. I got a lot of tips from the internet. I tried some things, but there was no... I always had the feeling that some things were really quite useful that I was told by other, or by dog trainers or by dog clubs. But it was not the real breakthrough because I thought the pieces did not really fit together.
So I got this tip here and that tip there. And some of them were really nonsense, but I didn't know that at the time. Some were really useful, but there was no structured plan. And the first time that I came across a structured plan was a couple of years later when I stumbled across the first book on frost-free predation training that came out in Germany after the ban of the e -collars. And this was like a light bulb moment.
I remember I read it on holidays and I didn't have my dog with me on holidays. And I couldn't wait to come home to put this all into practice and to give it a try with my dog. So this was the first breakthrough in our training. Well, and then from there it went pretty quickly because after the e-collar ban in Germany, there were quite some trainers specializing in this field because now we had to come up with some other ideas.
And then I went on workshops, some seminars, and then eventually I decided to become a dog trainer myself. And so what's the timeline of this? When was this? The timeline? Well, Malinka was born in 2002, so she had her peak performance around 2004, 5, 6. This was the time when I struggled most with her predatory behavior. And then the professional, so I started to become a professional dog trainer in 2016. This is when I started my dog trainer education.
And in 2018, I started working as a dog trainer. And tell us about the e-collar ban in Germany. We've got people from all around the world listening here. Some of them might have upcoming e-collar bans happening. Some of them can walk a couple of, I'm putting my hand up here, minutes down the road and buy themselves an e-collar if they want from a shop. Not that I want or would do that. I'm just saying that in New Zealand, that option is still available.
This sounds like in Germany, and I didn't know this, that the e-collar ban was quite a while ago. I think it was in 2008. Please don't be too strict about this, but I think it was 2008. And e-collars were banned, prong collars, slip leads without a stop. These were the tools that were first banned. So it was written down in our animal welfare law that there should be no harm inflicted on animals, no intimidation, no pain, no fear through training methods.
And of course, in Germany, you can still use aversive measures. So we still have spray collars, for example, that are legal to buy. You can also buy e-collars on the internet from other European countries because of the free market, but you cannot put them on your dog. So the moment you put them on your dog, it's illegal. So people get used to it. In the beginning, there was, of course, an outcry, how to deal with this behavior or that behavior or whatever.
But now, I hardly ever come across anybody who uses them illegally. It's only some niches where they still exist, but the majority of dog owners, it's simply not in their awareness anymore to use those tools. It spares me as a dog trainer, a lot of discussions and conversations and a lot of energy because I see from colleagues in other countries that work without e-collars, that they always have to justify, always have to discuss.
And this takes up a lot of energy and time for you as a human being. So I think it's really tiring to have this discussion over and over and over again. And I'm really lucky here because I simply don't have this discussion. It doesn't come up. It's not an option anymore. And yeah. Well, that must be nice. It is. It's quite relaxing and gives you peace of mind. I guess as an internationally known individual, your social media feed would be connected with people from around the world.
So this kind of stuff must still pop up in your social media feed, would it? Or does the algorithm like, no, no, she's from Germany. It still pops up from now and then. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So I still think about it and I have already posted a couple of stuff online about e-collars and from the German perspective or from the German legal perspective, why are they problematic? So yeah, I'm still confronted with this, but not on a daily basis.
So when I have my clients in Germany and they come because their dog is hunting and I ask them what have you tried in the past? It almost never comes up. How about your, because we're going to catch up to where you're up to now and what you're doing in 2024, but just to share before we get there, just in case you don't know Simone's work as a listener of this show, you're dealing with an international audience now.
So the focus that you have on predation training, would I be right in assuming that internationally there are different tools used by different individuals for the problems that present from dogs with high prey drive? Yeah, I guess so. So I can only talk about my method that I have developed now. So this is, yeah, I always look left and right what other people develop, but only in the spectrum of force-free dog training and reward-based dog training. Must be similar to me.
Well, from what you're saying, it sounds like you might be similar to me. I don't want to use that word must and assume anything, but we have a lot of horse trainers that are members of Animal Training Academy, but I've got nothing to do with anything but positive reinforcement horse trainers. So it sounds kind of like you're the same. Obviously, you know, these things are going on out there, but you're not attracting that with your work.
And sounds like you've got plenty to keep you busy throughout your day. So you're not going out looking for those things as well. I'm curious about Germany. I'm trying to think back as I'm talking to you, how many guests we've had on our show from Germany. I can think of one. And now I feel bad because there's probably more and I'm forgetting them. And I'm sorry if you're listening and that's you, please let me know because I don't want to do that again.
But I'm sure you can appreciate a lot of our guests, Simone. I'm from North America, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, England. But can you share with the listeners of the show what the training culture is like in general in Germany? And I mean, I know that you, as I ask this question, can't share what it's like in comparison to being somewhere else because you've only got your one experience. But the majority of people speak English, obviously.
And so access to information is, I would assume, equally accessible. Yeah. So what does training look like in Germany? Well, we have a lot of dog schools, but we also have a lot of dog clubs. I guess you know that a lot of dog breeds come from Germany. So we have been quite some dog enthusiasts for the last 250 years. And there is a long tradition of dog training in Germany, I guess.
So when you think about hunting, when you think about Schutzhund, all this stuff was quite developed here in Germany, at least our lines. And so we have a very rich tradition. So almost every little, I wouldn't say village, but little town has their own dog training club where you can just go with your dog and you get some basic obedience training, puppy training. And then the major dog sports like agility, obedience, APG, I don't know what it is in English, the Schutzhund sports.
So this is very, very common. And for us dog trainers, of course, this is the challenge because the regular dog owner does not know about how much work you have to put into your education. So they compare prices, you know. So they see that when you have a private dog school, it's much more expensive than when you go to the local dog club. And for the majority of dogs, it's totally fine to go to a dog club.
But then again, when you have some special effects in your dog, so behavior problems, the dog clubs are often not the right source to get the training. So yeah, you can simply swap over to a dog school. And we have plenty of them now here in Germany. So what part have dogs played in German's history? Have they traditionally been hunting sport companions or have they for a long time been companions that families have? And what's the culture there like in terms of, oh, there's a dog, I don't know.
I'm going to go up and touch it. Yeah. So you hardly have that in Germany. It's so weird. When I was in the UK or in the US, it's even worse. Everybody is like, oh, can I pet your dog? And I was like, why would you come over and pet my dog? So this hardly ever happens to you in Germany. But you see dogs in all the public places. They are everywhere. You see them in all the restaurants.
I don't know if any, yeah, maybe some restaurants are not, the dogs are not allowed, but in general, it's not a problem to take your dog into the restaurant. You see them on the Christmas markets, for example. This is where my heart always sinks because those poor dogs are within the crowds in the freezing cold, standing there with their owners because they want to have a molded wine or something like that. So dogs are everywhere in Germany. You can even take them to the malls.
The only places where they are not allowed are supermarkets and pharmacies. But in my pharmacy here in my place, they have a sign in the summer outside saying, you can't bring your dog into our pharmacy. Don't leave your dog in the hot car. So it's, they're everywhere. Sometimes when it's raining and I don't know what to do with my dogs, then I take them to the mall. So we just go window shopping together and yeah, that's it. So yeah, I think most dogs in Germany now are family dogs.
I think I don't have any numbers, but I would guess it's 90% or even more. It's not allowed to tether your dog anymore outside. So this has been banned too. You can have them in a kennel, but the kennel has to be huge. There are legal requirements for a kennel. Yeah. This is basically how dogs live in Germany, in the house, not in a little, what is it called? The box that you use inside the house. A crate. A crate. Exactly. So crating is not very common here.
It becomes more and more popular, but it's basically also not allowed. So interesting. I didn't know any of this about Germany before talking to you. So very different, very different to New Zealand and very different. I can appreciate some parts of the world. Hey, I'm probably going to have more questions about Germany because I'm pretty interested in everything you've been sharing, but going back to your journey, there's a pretty big gap between 2008, I think, to 2016.
What were you doing in that period? What were you doing? I was a high school teacher. So I studied to be a high school teacher and I started teaching in 2009. And so how did the transition happen? What made you decide? Yeah. So first of all, it was just only for my own dogs. So I will never, ever teach anything, not take money for anything. I only do this for my own dogs and this changed very quickly.
So yeah, I decided that I wanted to do something besides teaching, not that I wasn't busy enough, but I always need something else to keep my mind busy. And I was interested in dog training, did a lot of workshops before that, did a lot of seminars. So I thought I could also start a dog trainer education. And I did this in 2016 when I was still working full time at the school. And the dog trainer course lasted for two years.
And after that, I took three months off from my teaching job and I went to the UK on a European scholarship. The UK was by then still illegible for European scholarship. So that has changed now, unfortunately. So I went to Scotland to La Flore and Dog Services, to Claire Staines, to do some practical training with her. And this was amazing. So it was a very great time. I had one of my dog that I, Nanook, Malinka was not alive then anymore.
She had passed away in 2017, I think, or 18, beginning of 18. And in the summer of 2018, I took Nanook, took my car, packed the car, threw Nanook into the car, and then we drove to Scotland. And there I spent three months learning from Claire Staines. And yeah, it was just a wonderful time in Scotland. I feel like, I have no data on this, but it's just anecdotal based on Ryan's memory, which as a listener of this podcast, you probably shouldn't trust.
But there are a lot of people who make a transition. I mean, not a lot, but if you had to get the jobs that people were doing before they became dog trainers or animal trainers, maybe they're not working specifically with dogs. I feel like there would be a pretty big part of the pie that were teachers. That's interesting. I'm curious, as a high school teacher, you said high school teacher, right? Were you using things from dog training in your classrooms?
I started doing this, but to be honest, it's more the other way around. That today when I teach, I don't so much teach dogs, I more teach the people. And I use a lot of methods, methodology from teaching when I do workshops or when I do online classes or also one-to -one training. So this helps me a lot. I have a concept in my head, how to structure a lesson, what do I need to explain at which point so that it makes sense to the listener or to the reader.
And I think I benefit a lot from this 10 years experience. Can you give me an example and then I ask my other question. A practical example now. One thing that comes into my mind is when I was at a conference and it was only at this conference that I realized from the first two or three speakers that I was supposed to do something interactive with the audience. And I had prepared a talk, basically, and I was like, okay, panic.
And then I thought about what can I do here in my presentation to make it more interactive? And I thought about a method that I used as a teacher a lot, which goes really quickly. So you don't lose a lot of time, but you still make people think. It's called think, pair, share. You give the instruction that everybody thinks for a minute about a question for themselves. Then they talk to their neighbor as a pair, and then they share with everybody.
And so you get really quick, like a highlight from each table where the audience is sitting. So I thought, okay, I can do this here and here and here. And then I changed my presentation quickly into a more interactive style. So this was just one little example where this came in handy. Interesting. Hold these thoughts. Let's jump back to 2016. Wrong. 2016. And you decided to make the switch from teaching to full-time dog training? Oh, no, not that yet.
So I first thought I would only do it for myself. And then I thought, okay, I might do it for one evening per week or something like this. And it only happened after my daughter was born that I decided not going back. Ah, right. Is that because when your daughter was born, you took some time off from work, and that gave you some new insights about, some new reflections about what you wanted. And your daughter is now three years old. Is that right?
So to talk us through what's happened since then. And was that an easy decision or was that quite, I imagine it's quite stressful. Yeah. So after I started training in 2018, it was quite stressful because I was working full -time at the school. And when you're a teacher, of course you stop in the afternoon, but then in the evening you have to do your preparations and markings and stuff like that. So it's not that you are completely done after you finish school.
So this was quite stressful because I first had just two or three clients, then it became more. And so I had to really think about what to do because I just had a little limited time left for dog training. Then I thought about reducing some hours, some teaching lessons, doing less teaching and doing more dog training. But then COVID came and this changed everything. So basically we had the schools closed for a couple of weeks.
We did a lot of online teaching with the students, but I also had a lot of time left. And this is when I started writing my books. So I basically wrote them during COVID, the first two books. And then after COVID, when everything went back to normal, I had my daughter and I dropped out completely. So suddenly everything was very abnormal again, bringing a child into your life. Yeah. But it was an easier transition than just deciding, now I'll have to stop teaching and make a leap.
So the transition was easier for me because it was gradually and I could build up my business because you cannot just stop one thing without having the other one build up. You have to make a living off something. Kids are expensive as is life. Exactly. So 2000 and I'm jumping back and forth here. I'm just trying to understand how your journey happened in terms of where you ended up. And we haven't talked about that yet, but a lot of you probably know Simone, so you know where this is going.
But 2002 with Malinka and when she was two years old, she started to show some predatory behaviours 22 years later with some teaching and some experiences and some books being read and some training and making the transition. You're now specialising in what you call predation substitute training.
So that experience with Malinka, are we right then in concluding that even though there's a 22 year gap there or 20 years from when Malinka started showing those behaviours, that inspiration, that experience in 2004 never left you and that's why you're focused on this now? Or is it unrelated that you ended up focusing on the thing that Malinka was presenting you with 20 years ago? No, it was not a coincidence.
So I always find this, once I started to do some research on this behaviour, I found it so fascinating because it presents so different in very different dogs. And yeah, so I have always been fascinated by predatory behaviour and I have done a lot of workshops on this, even though Nanook, the dog that came after Malinka and Isla, they are not very predatory. When there comes a deer, they run after the deer for a couple of metres and they come back.
So it's not a real struggle for me anymore with predatory behaviour with my own dogs, but I still have this interest. And whenever I had the opportunity to learn something about this, I did because it was just like a hobby for me.
This is making a little bit more sense now, I think, because look at, and this is only one person's perception, which is mine, but if I look at 2024 and Susan Freeman's going, you've got to get Simone Muller on your podcast, Ryan, and I'm seeing you all over my socials and you at these conferences and I'm like, Simone is obviously putting out really great information.
It's great to understand your teaching background and to understand that you have the skill set at packaging information in accessible ways for people. And then I'm thinking that it makes sense that, because I go, well, 2020 when COVID hit and then you had your daughter and you made this transition, I mean, that's a small time frame to suddenly have this global reach.
That's amazing and congratulations, but it's kind of making more sense because it wasn't that you did all of that in three or four years. It was that you had been preparing for that for 20 years and then suddenly, yeah, without knowing, but suddenly your environment and the opportunities that came out of really intense situations like COVID came together. But with you sharing your story now, it makes sense. I was going to say, how does my reflections on what you shared with us land with you?
Yeah. So the first time that I really had this moment of realization that these protocols that exist in Germany do not exist internationally was when I had a conversation with Claire in Scotland. So we talked about a lot of things and then she said, we can tackle all behavior problems with positive training, but not predation. And in my head, I was like, don't you like the training protocols or what? And then we suddenly found out that they are not out there, not accessible in English.
And this is when I thought, whoa, maybe we can do something about that. And then what did you do? I wrote a book. Yeah. So you've asked your journey over the last three, four years. Yeah. So this was when I wrote the first book, Hunting Together, which is it's basically a workshop that I had developed for my German clients before that. And it gives an overview over what is predation? What can you do about it if you don't want to use aversive measures?
And what are the specialties that you have to take into consideration? And also the basic games and exercises. And it was the concept for a two day workshop that I had done in Germany with my clients. So I basically put this structure into the first book that is now Hunting Together.
So it was 20 years of preparation with and I'm using business terminology and I'm sure there's a better way to frame this, but you saw that there was a gap in the market and a gap in the knowledge or information that was out there. Is that how you were thinking? I'm going to fill that space and that's why I'm writing this book. Yeah, exactly. So when you research on how to deal with predatory behavior, then what comes up is a lot about recall training.
So if you want to work force free, it's all about recall training. But recall is, it is important, but it's only a kind of safety net when things go wrong. And I would say that 90% of my training happens when there is not an emergency. So with recall, we only ever prepare for the emergency when your dog chases something.
But the real root cause of the problem has to be tackled when there is nothing around, when we are out with our dogs and there is no immediate wildlife, deer, rabbit running in front of us. So this is when we work on predatory behavior. And yeah, so there is so much more that you can do than just recall or put a leash on your dog. So you wrote the first book and then when was that? About 2021, I'm guessing? 2022? Yes, exactly. It came out during COVID. I think it was in 2020.
Yeah. And then I immediately started with the second one because then we had the school shutdowns and I had time. So I took my second workshop that I had prepared and ready to go and put this one into a book. And this is now Rocket Recall, which is about recall training, but a recall that really works under big distractions. So that is designed to work even when you come across wildlife. And this was then the second book, basically. And did you stop there? No, of course not.
Then it took some time to get into writing again because then I had a kid and I was really busy doing diaper changes and night feedings and stuff like that. But eventually I thought I have to write another one. But I wasn't able to write myself because I didn't have the time anymore to physically sit down and type it on my computer. So I had my head full of ideas, but I didn't have the time to put it into my computer.
This is when I met Charlotte Garner from England and she's a copywriter for canine stuff. So she's a very passionate dog owner herself and she helps me with my writing. So what we basically did is I went for walks with the stroller and on these walks with the baby in the stroller, I spoke her some speech messages and sent them to England and she typed it down for me. And this is how we wrote the second book, Don't Eat That.
It's not about the core predatory behavior, but something that is related when you have a dog that loves to scavenge, which is also orientation behavior that is related to predatory behavior. It stems from the same root. And I had a lot of people coming to me asking me, okay, my dog is not very chasey, but he eats everything that we come across, gross things, rotten stuff. So what can I do? And this is why I wrote the book on this as well. Okay. Are you finished?
We're around here, like 15 more books. Would you like to leave it here now? Yeah. What's coming next? So the fourth book and then we're finished here with the books. This is also a book that I wrote with Charlotte is the latest one that just came out this year. It's called Walking Together. Because when I have clients with, especially gundog breeds or high energy breeds, they come to my training for predatory behavior.
But every time when we are talking and walking and working, then at some point it comes up that the dog is not able to walk on a loose leash. And I saw this pattern in all my clients with high prey drive dogs that I thought long and hard about why is this a problem with these types of dogs that they find it so hard to walk on a loose leash.
And then I talked to colleagues and I read a lot of literature and I puzzled together a kind of cheat training program for those high energy, high prey drive dogs. Because again, the root cause of the problem is the predatory behavior. It's something which is called predatory over arousal. And I think we will talk about this a little later in the podcast. So they need a special approach.
They cannot just go into the next dog training class and do some obedience training because it doesn't transfer into the real world for them. And I'm sure there's more books in your brain. That as you're about to go traveling around Canadian national parks, you'll have ideas in the back of your head. So this has been really enjoyable. I've really enjoyed hearing about your story. And the other thing I'm thinking about and curious about is how you would describe yourself.
Here's how I'm seeing you. Someone who's very, you said you always need something to keep your mind busy. You said in our call we had before we recorded, this was last week before we recorded this for the listeners of the show, I always catch up with my guests beforehand. You said you're very structured. You want to get things in a structured way, piece things together. And I get the sense that you're very curious. I'm a dopamine victim, I guess.
So like the dogs I'm dealing with, I'm always looking for the next dopamine rush. And I get this from learning stuff that I'm interested in, doing courses. So yeah, very curious. Not very structured. If you told my husband that I'm a structured person, he would laugh because I think I'm a very chaotic person. But in my job, I like to be structured because this is the only way that I can keep track of things. So if I'm not structured, then everything will be forgotten and gone.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think if we asked our spouses about traits that others might see in us in other contexts, they would laugh at many of those labels that get placed upon us. I know my wife would. In terms of structure, I feel like working with clients, seeing patterns, articulating those patterns with the help of Charlotte and getting those into a sequenced, a sequential order inside a book that helps others. Maybe one might label that as a structured way of organizing your thoughts.
Yeah. And especially during the last book, during the Walking Together book, I had so many lightbulb moments myself when I thought about various dog breeds and what they were originally bred for and what makes or what happens to them now when they are in a family environment. I had this somewhere in my head, but in order to bring it onto paper, I had to structure it really clearly. And then sometimes it was for me even like, wow, right, this is where this comes from.
So, yeah, it really helps to get your thoughts organized to write a book. I can only recommend this. Yeah. I don't know the saying, I don't even know if there is a saying, but I know there's a concept that the best way to, or maybe not the best way, but a powerful way to grow your own knowledge and to grow your own skills to teach. Yeah. Well, you know.
Yeah. And also to, when you're kind of fresh into an idea or fresh into learning something, that's also a great time to teach it because you still understand what others don't understand. Whilst if you are 10 years into a subject, you start to lose sight of what it's like to be in that place of not knowing. Exactly. And you have to break it down and get back to the basics. Yeah. So, this really helps a lot.
We're all better off for it because of your books and contributions and learning what you guys in Germany know that we don't, but now we do, and we haven't figured out yet. And share with the listeners before we wrap up part one of this conversation with you, Simone, what a week looks like for you in 2024. And I understand that every week is different, but generally speaking. What looks like for me in 2024? A week. What takes up your time at the moment? Okay, good.
So, that's a very interesting question because this changes a lot from time to time. I try to do some clients here so that I think it's really important for me to work with dogs because this is where I get my inspirations from. This is where I can try my methods, where I can try the protocols and I say, okay, now I have to adjust them a little bit. And this is also where I come across the problems that the people have when they have high prey drive dogs.
And I also try not to only teach predatory behavior. I also take on some cases, for example, dog aggression or separation anxiety if it's not that severe. So, I always say I'm not an expert in this. I try to help you because then I also have an open mind and I have to think about other stuff than just predatory behavior. So, I do some clients here more in the summer than in the winter because in the winter nobody wants to train their dogs. It's too cold here.
And then I do a lot of work on my computer basically. So, preparing courses, preparing workbooks, writing my next book, stuff like that. So, I'm always busy. Well, just before you wrap up, can you share for those listening where they can go online or if they live close to you in Germany, maybe go to get personal help.
But for the majority of us, where they can go online to find you, to see you on social media, your website, get in touch, do your courses, read your books, point us to all of the places you'd like the listeners to visit. Okay. So, of course, you can come to me for a weekend or something. Then we can do some training here in the woodland. We have a lot of wildlife here. So, sometimes clients come to me and they are really like, wow, how can you even walk your dogs here?
The woods is full of deers and boars and stuff like that. So, we have a lot to train here. But normally, you can do it from your sofa and just go online, predationsubstitutetraining.com. And there you can also find my newsletter. So, you can subscribe to the newsletter if you're interested in knowing more. You can have a look at the courses that I have at the moment.
I have a very comprehensive online course that leads you through the whole predation substitute training, gives you all the tools that you need to know with your dog. But if you just want to start learning and do not want to spend a lot of money in the beginning, especially, you can always start with the books. I think this is the most easy and yet effective way to learn about force-free predation substitute training. You can find all the books on Amazon. That's the easiest way to get them.
Or also from the local bookstores. They all have an ISBN number, so you can just get them from your local bookstore if you want to support them. Wonderful. We will, of course, link to all of this in the show notes for you to listen to. We will officially now wrap up part one of this episode, but we're going to invite Simone back and talk about everything predation. Simone, this has been so much fun.
So, from myself and on behalf of everyone listening, we really appreciate you coming and hanging out with us today. Thank you so much. Thank you very much for the invitation. Thank you. And thank you so much for listening as well. This is your host, Ryan Cartlidge, signing off from this episode of the Animal Training Academy podcast show. We hope today's conversation inspired you and equipped you with new tools for your trainer's toolbox.
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