Welcome to the Animal Training Academy podcast show. I'm your host, Ryan Carledge, and I'm passionate about helping you master your animal training skills using the most positive and least intrusive approaches. Here at ATA, we understand that navigating the vast challenges you encounter in training requires a comprehensive base of knowledge and experience. It's common to face obstacles and rough patches on your journey that can leave you feeling overwhelmed and stressed.
Therefore, since 2015, we have been on a mission to empower animal training geeks worldwide. We've aided thousands in developing their skills, expanding their knowledge, boosting their confidence, and maximising their positive impact on all the animal and human learners they work with. We are excited to do the same for you. Simply visit www.atamember.com, join our vibrant community, and geek out with us.
And of course, in the meantime, enjoy this free podcast episode as we explore new ways to help you supercharge your training skills, grow your knowledge, and build your confidence so that you can craft a life that positively impacts every learner you encounter. We will start today's episode where we will be talking to one Rose Brown.
Rose is a Karen Breyer Academy Certified Training Partner, FEAR Free Certified Professional Animal Trainer, and member of several prestigious organisations, including the International Association of Animal Behaviour Consultants and the Canadian Association of Professional Dog Trainers. She authored the new Puppy Start Right for Instructors Online Preschool for the Karen Breyer Academy, which is the online integrative component for the original Puppy Start Right Preschool for Instructors.
Since 1995, Rose has been deeply immersed in dog training and behaviour. She owns Dynamic Canines and has extensive education in canine behaviour from world-renowned professionals. A lifelong student, Rose continually updates her knowledge with the latest scientific research to help pet parents incorporate practical, evidence-based training into their daily lives. Her passion lies in early intervention during puppyhood to ensure emotional wellbeing and prevent behavioural issues.
So without further ado, it's my very great pleasure to welcome Rose to the show today as patiently waiting by. Rose, thank you so much for taking the time to come and hang out with us at Animal Training Academy. Well, thank you, Ryan. I'm so happy to be with you today. Looking forward to learning from you, hearing all your insights and unpacking your experience and knowledge. Let's dive straight in today, Rose, to our first question.
I was hoping that you could take us all back to where you first learned about animal training, about positive reinforcement, and share some stories with us from your journey. Oh, my goodness. You're going back into the archives of my brain. All right. So I got my start in dog training because our house was burglarised. Long story short, we had just bought our first home together, myself and my partner. And the first thing we wanted was to get a dog.
But unfortunately, at that time, back in the 90s, the SPCA and shelters would only give out dogs to people who only had one person working outside of the home. So we were like, okay, we'll have to hold off for a while and save up and get our own dog. But the universe intervened and said, you know what, let's just get your house robbed. And then you can, you know, after the insurance and everything is all paid out, you can take the money for the jewellery and go get yourself a dog.
So that's really what happened. And fortunately, you know, at that time, the only way you found dogs was advertised in the papers, right, local breeders. And fortunately, the breeder that I got my first dog, Simba, from a beautiful German shepherd boy, also had her own dog training school. So she gifted, you know, a puppy manners class with her shepherd, her babies. And I just fell in love and went from there.
And so as I said, that was back in the mid-90s, long before we even had dial-up internet. And certification was really unheard of, for sure, at that time. But Helen Proudfoot, who was the breeder and my mentor, was actually a Ballpark certified trainer under Jack and Wendy Ballpark. So fast forward a few years later, after mentoring underneath her, I went to the U .S. and became a certified Ballpark trainer.
And it wasn't until the late 90s, I want to say 99, around there, that you started to hear about this new, quote-unquote, method, clicker training. And what we'd heard of it, you know, at the time, it was like, yeah, it's really good for tricks, but not real obedience. I never forget those words. It's like, yeah, it's good for tricks. And so, you know, as new information, new stuff started to come out, it really wasn't very much in the early 2000s with respect to behavior.
You know, and I was Ballpark instructor. And at that time, you know, that was a pretty progressive, positive reinforcement training method because, you know, we did use tricks. But, you know, hindsight's 20-20, we were also using correction. And I had my second shepherd and my first boy in that. And then after they passed, I ended up getting a third shepherd in 2007. And her name was Bella.
And Bella was the one that literally caused my training world of everything I had learned and done and taught to others up to that point in time. She sent that crashing down on me. And she is the one that sent me on a mission to find a training method to help her and try and undo the damage that I had unknowingly, at that point, inflicted upon her through my training, but also unintentionally from things that I wasn't aware of that were impacting her behavior.
So, do you want me to continue or shall I? Do you have a question? No, carry on. All right. So Bella's story is, it started out great. She had a really wonderful puppyhood. I did know about, you know, socializing what we knew about with respect to socialization at that time. So she had lots of really good early on experiences. And the first sign should have been when I put her in doggy daycare at five months with her breeder. This was a different breeder than where I got my original boy from.
And I started noticing that, you know what, there was days when I went to go pick her up. It was a very small and still is to this day, crowded facility with 30 to 40 dogs in perhaps a five to 600 square foot space with just kind of a large backyard. And I started noticing there was times that, you know, when you go to pick her up, like she was clamoring to get over the gate, right, to come out and meet me.
But yet at the same time, when I go to bring her there, she was what I thought, oh, just really super, super excited. Tank controller. Like she just wants to get in there barking, yipping, pulling on the leash and all of that. And plus she also was there with her breeder and one of her siblings. But as time went on, it became worse, you know, over the course of the year. And my gut was telling me there's something wrong, there's something wrong.
But being reassured by my friend and her breeder that no, she's fine. She's having a great time. Then she also ended up during this time being, I want to say the word attacked, but there was no physical fights of dogs rushing and pinning her who were off leash while she was on leash. And again, I started to see the behavior of other dogs coming towards us and she would bark and lunge and be trying to, or what I thought get to them to say hi, right?
Cause she was so friendly with the dogs she had grown up with. And then on top of that, she also had several emergency visits in the span of like eight, nine months to the vet that were in, again, in hindsight were very traumatic for her. So we had several events and we had some chronic events occurring. And until one day, and I was there with another good friend of mine and we were both, we had the dogs out for a walk and a cat ran in front of us in, in the tall grass.
Well, she absolutely lost her mind, went after them and my friend was there and I had been being told for, you know, about six, eight months by that time that, you know what, you're just really too easy on her. You really need to be a more firmer hand to make her stop that behavior. And so my friend was there and she's like, just be firmer, Rose, just, just be firmer. Right. And she was already on a prong collar.
And so I gave a correction and it's still difficult for me to talk about it to this day, because the sound that came out of my dog literally dropped me to my knees because it was such a piercing blood curdling scream. And I realized in that moment, I was like, Oh my God, I've really hurt my dog. And I came home. I was no distance from the house when this had occurred. I came home, I came through the door. My husband said, Oh my God, what is wrong?
Well, you don't want to know, because I can't say the words that I said at the time because I was so upset with myself and knowing what I had done. And I remember taking the prong collar and just flicking it as far as I could. And I said, Oh my God, what have I done to Bella? And I mean, it was the most humiliating experience that I ever had. And it was all because the world just imploded.
And then I was having all of these continuous flashbacks of like, Oh my God, you've done this, you've done that. No, she's like, you know, these are all. And I was like, Holy crap, where do I go from here? And it was quite difficult because I tried talking to it about it with my peers and my friends. And all I got was criticized and ridiculed and advised to get a shock collar.
So, you know, I lost friendships and because I walked away because I couldn't get them to understand like, no, no, what we've been doing is more damaging to the dog than any of us realize. Like we have to stop this. There has to be a better way. And, you know, that was really personally hard too. You know, people criticizing you, emailing you, kind of poking fun at you and saying, Oh yes, you've now become a Pez dispenser.
While I was trying to figure out, because again, there still wasn't a lot of books or anything on the internet for me to kind of somebody help. Right. So I just, I just went searching. And one of the books that I found was actually Gail Fisher's book, the crossover trainer and Gail Fisher was also originally with the Volhartz. So I knew of Gail because of her relationship and, you know, she wrote books and that with the Volhartz and that too.
And so when I read her book, I was like, thanks be to God. It's not just me. And somebody has taken the time now to help me understand what, and what this method has done. And so it was a great first start down the road to, you know, changing and, and really focusing on the behavior and, you know trying to rebuild my poor girls behaviors, but most importantly, my relationship with her.
Because I remember saying to my husband at one point in time, looking back now that I realize just what an adult that I was doing this to my dog. Like if she could have got out of this house and said, yeah, man, I'm out. I said, I wouldn't blame her. I, you know, because I said, you know, I created an abusive relationship unknowingly doing something that I thought was the right thing to do because of what I, so it's like, I'm surprised she even comes near me.
No wonder she wouldn't pay attention when she, she got a bit of freedom from me. Sure. I wouldn't need her. I'd be, I'd be running after any squirrel or leaf or anything just to avoid having to be around you, you know? And one of, one of the things that I learned as I started to look for more information and help and, you know, then I discovered like Cameron Pryor and, you know, Bob Bailey. And like, I was like, Oh my God, there is there, there there's big, a bit deeper.
And, and everyone's saying, and to this day people still use the term, you know, crossover trainer. I was never comfortable with that term. And I, and I tell you why, because it sounds like it, like it's black and white, you know? And this is one of the struggles that I still see going on today for people who are still teaching, you know, these methods or whatever. It's kind of like we've unintentionally pitted ourselves between we're right. You're wrong.
And, and, and I don't think it's that way because anyone that is a positive trainer now that is of my vintage, you know it would, it's, it's very, very few that actually would have started out with behavior and understanding positive reinforcement. The majority of, of trainers and peers that I know, you know, from the eighties and the early nineties, all started with some form of a correction based training method, because that's what was taught. There was no certification.
There was no awareness. There was no education regarding canine behavior. And so I think by sober, depending on, on who you're talking to, they're saying it like it's a black label. And while, you know, I always say, I don't go around wearing this as a badge of honor or any type of a label because I learned a lot of valuable stuff about dogs that had nothing to do with corrections. Like there was way more in the ball heart training methods. Like, you know, I learned about nutrition.
I learned about alternative therapies. So there was a lot of good stuff there. And even the way that they still did do a lot more respectful things than things that were taught at the time, you know, and they, they actually were very explicit about not using correction to any form of an extreme. Now I know correction is correction, but you know, if you've seen dogs being corrected on leash, there is quite a difference between the severity of which it is applied.
Hence that's what happened to me is when I did reach that 10 plus level of severity, that's what broke me. So I think it's really important that we kind of change that terminology and not use it as something that's shameful for people who have come from a background that involves starting out, you know, using any of these methods because honestly it's not that we're crossing over and leaving every single thing behind but actually we're evolving.
So I like to think that I'm an evolving trainer and behavior person, not a crossover because I've evolved from where I started to where I am today. And guess what? In another three or four years time, I'll probably be after evolving again just because I keep up so much with the current research and information that's out there. So that's kind of where it came to.
And fortunately I did get accepted into KPA in 2011 and then I graduated with distinction and then I went on to do the Puppy Start Right for Instructors program done by Debbie and Dr. Ken Martin when it came out, when it launched in 2012 and that really kind of became my passion and which is also why I had stopped just prior to the pandemic of doing all the cases and instead focusing on puppies and preventative measures and programs.
Because I truly believe that this is where we need to focus is at the beginning. And don't get me wrong, we still need help along the way but if we focus more on preventative and instilling those types of programs, you know, we can do a lot with respect to eliminating some of the more common things that are taking place in the behavior world of dogs. Well, thanks for sharing all of that. How did it feel talking about Bella now?
I had like tears coming welling up, you know, I was feeling the pain and feeling the trauma. It was.
Bella passed in June of 2021 and, you know, one of the things that I absolutely love, I mean, all of my dogs were great teachers for me, but one of the things about Bella is that it's kind of like she brought me to my knees and yet she also brought me to the mountaintop at the same time by me being able to find that education and use that and incorporate fear-free techniques, consult with, you know, behavior veterinarians to get her to medical support when needed and to be able to help
change that behavior and see the fun, the really funny girl who would, you know, basically laugh in your face when she was a puppy come back to me again. And we had so much fun, so much fun, you know, and I'd done competitions with her, obedience competitions and I thought, geez, why isn't everybody playing this game to be complimented and say that, you know, the happiest teams they've ever seen working in a ring to do agility and justice.
And it had nothing to do because when we, when we were in our groove and got our groove on, it was just me and her. And, you know, to be able to overcome that fear and to be able to go past dogs that she couldn't do before because of her fear and anxiety and to see her confidence grow and just for her to be like, Hey man, this life is great and it's wonderful. So it's still really difficult on that aspect.
As I said, she, she, I never ever felt so vulnerable in any relationship with either a person or a dog. As I did at that moment when I realized what I had done with her. And yet at the same time, and I know dogs, you know, they, they can't say, yeah, no tear up, get over it, build a bridge or whatever. But what I did learn from her was, you know what? We'll start again. Each day is a new day.
And what I love about it is that for all of the judgment I received from my quote unquote, so-called friends and critics who didn't even know me because I live in a small area. So, you know, it's a small town. The one that was the most important to me, which was Bella. She never judged me. And I think we could all take a lesson from that, especially when we're looking at people who are coming from a different training background and trying to start afresh.
Don't be so quick to judge because of our animals can, you know, learn to overcome what we do to them unintentionally in our plot to forge and help dogs in life. You know, we need, we need to take it from them. So, you know, she, she is my inspiration. Every client, I told so many stories that like, everybody knows the Bella stories because it was so relatable to clients that I was working with, with fear reactivity, you know, and people who are blaming themselves because of their dogs.
And I was like, Hey, look, you're looking at someone who spent thousands and thousands of dollars on an education that she ended up just thrown away because it was crap. So no, you know what? You're okay. Give yourself a little pat on the back. So yeah. So she's with me everywhere. She still brings tears to my eyes, both in joy and in loss, but she's there all the time.
It makes me think about the words you said before evolution and evolution has some dead pathways in it that don't go anywhere, but that's how evolution works. I don't know if that metaphor is relevant for what you just said, but that's what I was thinking. It's like, it was not, it's just evolution. It's evolution, right? So it was like you said, that's why I named my business dynamic canines because the behavior is dynamic. There isn't just every dog is the same.
There isn't just, Oh, my dog has separation anxiety. Your dog has separation anxiety. Guess what? Their behaviors aren't the same. So, you know, it's very dynamic. It's, it's a constant change. It's ever evolving. So I think I should rename it dynamic trainers and dynamic learners. Yes, absolutely. I'm really sorry to hear that you had to choose between values and friendships. That is, that is so hard.
I've done the same and I'm sure that you, the listener out there can think about times in your life where a conflict has arisen between your moral compass and, and your values and those that you have relationships with, who you might attach label friends with how can you, can you just speak to that? How, how hard was that? And considering that it was, you know, a significant amount of time has passed since then. Like how do you view that now?
Like what is the hindsight that you can have and share with us now? I think, you know, I can go to Terry Ryan who's phenomenal. And I mean, you know, anyone ever been around a chicken camp? Terry's there. And, you know, so Terry was my mentor and instructor when I was going through it, a KPA course. And so I got the privilege of being able to go and do the course in person as an international student, because Newfoundland was so far removed from Canada. I couldn't do it a Canadian course.
We're too far out in the ocean. So it worked out great. And, you know, Terry said something. And, and, and we were talking about a different subject. We were talking about trying to get people on board, you know, when you're talking about clicker training and the pushback and everything else, but she said this one statement and she said, some will, some want others are waiting.
And so, you know, for me, that actually kind of resonated back to the relationships that I walked away from when all of this happened with Bella, because I, you know, at first I was very angry. I was very bitter because I was hurt so deeply. You know, these were long time friends and people that, you know, I trained with and to just be so quick to blame the dog and not take any responsibility for what we're doing, you know, and everything was the dog's fault, right.
You know, or my fault instead of like taking that step back. So for the longest time, I just couldn't even think about them and I could feel my blood pressure kind of go up. But then I realized that, you know, what that really is there, you know, stumbling block or there's something in their personalities that perhaps doesn't allow them to accept that, Hey man, you were wrong too. Right. Because it's, you know, it's not easy when you take your ego and go like, well, you totally suck.
Don't you know? Cause it's quite humbling. And like I said, it makes you feel very vulnerable because you've just opened yourself and you have all of this guilt coming, coming with it. So, but Terry's words kind of really sunk into that level of understanding that, you know, some people will embrace that there's a better way. There's a newer way. Some people will never accept that. They're going to stay stuck in the arcade times. They don't believe in signs.
They believe that dogs, you know, and all other animals are just property and they do what I say, period. But you got to kind of put them back in the closet because you know what? I cannot change a person's behavior. If they're not willing to participate in the change, because there are others waiting.
There are others who, you know, to this day who may have started off because it's the only type of training method in their area where, you know, they're going in with their dog or they've become a trainer and the methods being used kind of don't feel real good sometimes that the stuff they're being seen, right. Or having to do with the animal.
But of course, again, when, when you have those questions and you have those doubts, we often kind of squash that down because we don't have anybody who shares them with us. So it's kind of like you're, you're, you're standing alone. On your own. And you just don't feel you have the support. And it's very, very intimidating when you have people around you putting everything you say down. Now, fortunately, unfortunately, again, the way you look at things, I had been bullied in high school.
So I kind of, kind of grew from that. And so when I get my backup, when somebody, somebody keeps coming back, you're not, I don't let people intimidate me. And in this case, it was my dog. It was my animal that I shared my life with. She wasn't innocent. Right? So don't you dare come and tell me that the only solution is to stick a shock collar on her and hurt her more. Right. No, you're not touching me. I never, ever wanted, you know, to physically hurt my dog.
I just didn't realize that I was doing it on a low grade level all along, you know? So fast forward, you know, to today, many years later, I, I don't hold any ill feeling towards those, those past friends, you know, I I'll speak to them. I'll just have that casual.
But I also understand that again, if they're going to stay on that path, that's their choice because there's more than enough information out there and they've seen enough of it now grow within our community here for them to embrace it. One of, one of my friends actually did, you know, a couple of years later, she, she had her own kind of you know, moments and saw and also saw the stuff that I was doing with Bella.
And, you know, again, it took her a long time to kind of get that courage to kind of make that cut because when you have personal ties, you know, and, and deep bonded friendships, it's just makes it a little bit more difficult than if I were walking away from just a stranger that I'd gone in and tried to do training with, you know, but I don't hold again, my, I don't have anger towards any of them anymore.
I truly wish that, you know, at some point in time that they they'd start to use even just a bit more general ways in their training, because here's the other thing. All of these people love their dogs the same as I did. Their love was on ending. So I, and I think that's what really offends a lot of people is like, how dare you say that? I love my dog. I'd never do anything to hurt them. Right.
So when you can't, when you can't change people's minds, you certainly can't force them to change their minds. You can only provide them with the information and wish them well. And which I do. Forgiveness is powerful. I think not just for yourself. Well, you know, a really good friend of mine told me this and, and it's resonated with me in on so many levels for so many different things. Hatred corrodes the vessel from which it is stored, not on the object of which it is poured.
So, you know, for me, it's like, I don't hate you because that only makes me mad. I don't want to be mad. So it doesn't, it doesn't do anybody any favors when we go around carrying that resentment, you know, focus on what you can do right and making those positive changes within your own life and the animals you work with. And when those relationships are so meaningful to you, it's like tearing your social fabric.
So it's such a hard decision to prioritize or choose your values because it's scary and uncomfortable and sad. Yeah, it is sad. And especially, and I think is even more relevant today in a society where we don't necessarily have the same levels of closeness and friendships that we used to have years ago, because so much is forged now over social media. Right.
And, you know, and again, it's, it's very hard, you know, when you have your quote unquote friend, you know, whether it's a Facebook friend or an in-person friend who's, you know, berating you or telling you you're wrong or, you know, one say something to your face, but we'll talk about you behind your back and you find out the difference. It's, it's really scary to end any relationship, you know, and having that, I don't know if it, I don't know if it was courage at the time for me actually.
No, it wasn't. It was just spite. I was just so, I was just like, no, you're wrong. I'm right. And this is for my dog. This is not about you. So if you think that about my dog, well then fine, I'm done. So, yeah, so it was spite at the time. And then of course, I kind of bet myself up over that. And that's why I tried to repair to see if they would come on board.
But, you know, when you still get, again, it becomes also, I find with people like that, they're very cowardly in that when you do try to have a conversation, they're not honest or they'll, they'll tuck and hide away or say to somebody else and it gets passed along back to you. But I really think, and again, reflecting on so many fakeness in relationships this day and age, that it doesn't matter how long the relationship was or how deep it is.
If it's hurting you and it's more detrimental to you or the animal that's in your care, then you know what? I go back to Terry. Others are waiting because there are other friends out there, you know? So it is scary to kind of break free, stand alone. But yet at the same time, I have to be honest, the love and the relief that I had knowing that nobody could hush Bella again when she was out of my care was far superior to the fear of not having a friend, you know?
And again, why stay in, it doesn't matter how long your friends or your working pairs or colleagues, toxic relationships are no good for anybody, right? So it's just like, yeah, like why am I saying? Because I've known you for like 20 years and we had some laughs and we've done this, we've done that. At the end of the day, you're toxic. You're not helping me. And I just don't need that in my life. I need to focus on my dog. I got to try to help her. So I, and you know what?
I have so many friends now that are on the same path as me, that I forged my relationship, that I forged through all the folks I met through KPA. And you know, it's so wonderful because, you know, again, you're with like-minded folks, you know, and that's the difference. So, you know, dump the toxic so you can make more room for the ones who are worthy of that relationship with you.
I'm currently studying Rose Uof, the wonderful good friend of mine, Jennifer Shryock and the Family Paws program to become a Family Paws parent educator. And I'm doing it partly as a parent, yeah. Four years into parenthood, four years later than I ideally wanted to, but as is life. It's never too late.
As Bethany, one of the teachers, the instructors is talking and she's sharing about some of the challenges and the emotions that come with those challenges of being a parent and bringing a child into your home where you already have animals. You know, I really got the feeling it's not just me. And that was like one of the favorite things.
I mean, there's so many great things about that course and it's such important work because of the dangers that are involved with young children and babies and toddlers around dogs. The work they're doing is so important. It is. I've done Jennifer's course back in 2017. Oh, amazing. I didn't know that. Yeah. And so, you know, there's obviously so many things I'm taking away from that course and so much potential now to create such a positive difference.
But just for me, that part, like it's not just me, just hearing someone explain someone else's going through the thing that you're going through. It's comforting. Yeah. And you said that you kind of experienced that when you found, I think you said Gail Fisher's book, you said. Yeah. Now you've got so many friends on the same path as you, that you've made three places like Karen prior.
Like, can you, I want to insight you have to share with the audience of our podcast show in terms of the importance of community importance of when you're feeling stuck in, in a rat and maybe your peers and your friends are even criticizing you to know that you're not alone and to, to find and to seek out that that community because we exist. Right. Yeah, we do. We do.
And one of the things that I found, you know, when I did start on my, my KPA journey right from my interview with, with Tia guest, who was the school admissions at the time. I was on the phone and I was a nervous Nelly and I got off the phone and she was so sweet and she was so positive and she was comforting. And she was like, no, no, no, that's okay. And I got a phone and I was like, that is perhaps the nicest interview I've ever had in my life. And it felt weird. To be honest, right.
Because again from the background of the training world that I was used in, and especially not that I was really interested in obedience titles or anything like that, but it was kind of the only thing at the time, you know, that was in our area. So you were just there and you were supporting people, but I just found it so cutthroat and negative. Like I, you know, it'd be just a totally different environment.
It's just like, no, Rose can't win because Ryan, we like him better and he does this and, you know, so it couldn't be that Rose and Ryan could be the same, right. It was always this super competitive attitude and, and critical of, of, you know, the teams shall we say. But then when I went and got over in, in swim with Terry and Scotty Harvey, who was assisting her at the time and met, met all of my, my fellow classmates from all over the world, which is great.
You know, from Australia to Hong Kong to England, it was, it was wonderful. And again, it was just so welcoming, so friendly wanted to hear your input. And, you know, it was a multicultural exchange, you know, because we, we were all different nationalities in that. And it was just like, my God, they're all so nice and kind. Like, Ooh, they just don't use it with the dogs. It's with people too. And it was kind of that way.
And it being like, it didn't just change my training approach for working with animals. Learning the, the Karen prior and the principles and the understanding of using this, it actually changed my whole outlook of dealing with people. Right.
So instead of jumping on, Oh, you're doing it wrong, which I still say for my husband, by the way, cause you know, it's, it's just the thing, it's a spouse thing, you know, just saying, you know, that you actually would take the time to actually show and make it easy, you know, so set them up, set things up for success, as opposed to automatically going in and criticize.
And so I really found that the KPA guiding principles, you know, set out by Karen prior really transferred over into all of my life interactions of again, you know, treating people the same way I treat and respect an animal, right. And taking them into account, not forcing my ideas and opinions on them. And what, again, it was just so nice to be in a group where we all joked and carried on.
And I didn't have to worry about people going off in the corner and criticizing, you know, us or the different things. It was just such good, open, honest exchange. And it was a place that you just, it wasn't just a place of warmth and welcomeness. It was, it was a trust, right. And it was genuine, you know, you really can't fake genuine people try, but you can't.
And so, you know, that kind of, that community like starting from there and then going to the clicker expo conferences and meeting people that way. And, and then of course getting involved with fear free.
So building within these communities and you'll, you'll start to find that when you, when you're into the different areas, like, you know like with dog biz with thrive, you know, Gina and Veronica, you know, they, they jumped on and started surviving thrive, you know, as soon as we hit pandemic lockdown, just to offer free support for all of us whose businesses just kind of shut doors overnight.
And everything was so helpful and reinforcing in that what I love about our community is we are so willing and freely wanting to share support and help each other grow. There's no underlying competition. There's no, Oh, I'm not telling Ryan this because I don't want him to go off and do that. This is my idea. We're out there like, no, no, try this, try this. Let me know what you think. I think, I think that's.
So if, if you're looking for that community and again, with the pandemic, it opened up our community even more, which is great. I mean, look at me, I'm in Canada talking to you in New Zealand, you know, and, you know, being able to reach each other on that level. I can only personally speak from the communities that I'm involved with. But I just find them all honest with it and caring and, and generally wanting to see each other succeed and grow in their own respective areas.
You know, I mean, who, who would have thought of, you know in, in the other world, even 10 years ago and perhaps even so today that, okay, I, I, I can't see you as a client, but let me refer you to this person. And if that doesn't work for you, I have another person to refer to. So, you know, we refer to each other. It's none of this mindset of I'm taking it because it's mine. It's like, there's more than enough of us to share and go around. And that's what I love about, about this community.
So, you know, reach out, try to find some of those groups. I'm sure, excuse me, that there, there may be groups out there that are not, not as warm and welcoming. But this is where, you know, you kind of dig in, find your niche. What are your interests?
And kind of, you know, see if you can find someone because again, a good majority of all of our trainers across the globe are actually isolated within their community because there might be the one of, or the two of, like I was the first one in my community.
So that was fun because, you know, I had to go up and put myself out there against all of the, you know, prong users and training methods and my old, my old training school where I used to teach, you know, so I had to go out and, and, and stand alone and, and hang my flag and say, I'm here. And, you know, and I did, because again, when you have, when you feel something so passionately, you know, like, you know what, this is right. Somebody will show up. What have I got to lose? Right.
And so when you offer that, but again, it's still very isolating, you know, by having our global community, especially, like I said, that is expanded so much during and since the pandemic, we've really helped build that community connection where we can truly provide support rather than just trying to poke into a Facebook group and kind of feel it out. There's actual groups that we can be a part of.
We ran some surveys last year and that fact, based on the survey anyway, of being isolated was one of the main challenges that people said in the survey, we, we got a couple of hundred responses. Wow. And to say that they had any positive reinforcement trainer in their locality, geographically, wherever they were in the world. Looking at the time, let's head towards the end of part one. We're going to invite Rose back. I'm excited to talk about puppies.
But can you share with everyone, Rose, what, what you're up to in 2024 and where people can go online to find you to, to get in touch. Sure. Yeah. So currently I'm, I'm on a sabbatical for some professional projects that I'm currently working on. So I'm not taking on new clients at this time. I still see my return clients because let's face it, you can't have two dog withdrawals, right? It's real.
So, but so I'm, I'm working with a, with a good friend on some projects right now that are in development. So stay tuned on that. And, but in the interim, my website in that is still up and active. It's dynamiccanines.ca. You can contact me through there and certainly, you know, go ahead. And I say to people like, check out my, you know, my CV, my bio, my background, you know, just don't take my word for it because I'm talking on a podcast. No offense.
But again, it's just nice to know who you're talking to. But if, you know, if people have questions or just feel a little unsure or want a bit of guidance or something, love to have an email. I love, I love talking to people to kind of help them kind of see if they're, they're stuck or maybe they just have some questions about puppies and are looking at a program for themselves. So yeah, get in touch, check out www .dynamiccanines.ca. Wonderful.
We will of course link to everything in the show notes, but let's officially wrap up part one of this episode here. Rose, this has been so much fun. And on behalf of myself and everyone listening, we really appreciate you coming on the show today. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. And thank you for letting me share the hard parts of, of some of the things from my past. And thank you so much for listening as well.
This is your host Ryan Cartlidge signing off from this episode of the animal training Academy podcast show. We hope today's conversation inspired you and equipped you with new tools for your trainers toolbox. Remember, every challenge and training is an opportunity to learn and sharpen your animal training geekery. Embrace the rough patches, learn from them and keep improving.
And don't forget the path to growing your skills and expanding your knowledge continues beyond this episode, visit www.atamember.com to join our supportive membership, where you will find a community of trainers just like you. Together, we're making a huge positive difference in the lives of animal and human learners worldwide until next time, keep honing your skills, stay awesome. And remember every interaction with an animal human learner is your opportunity to create ripples.
We're here cheering you on every step of the way. See you at the next episode.