Episode 351: A Long Time C*mming (Feat. Gia Casey)

all of that I've heard. But you guys have a book out now, Real Life, Real Love, which is, by the way, an amazing read. I'm I'm not gonna lie. Early on, I cried, I did, because you know, I'm sensitive when I read certain things. But I think I know you guys have told this story before about your face getting slice and you getting into where those girls jumped you, but reading it like in real time, and how Envy was supposed to pick you up but he was working, and then you know that part was like

I just can't even imagine something like that happening. But then and he said, you know, after that, things were never they saying. But what I love is you said you were stronger after that. Absolutely. Absolutely. Growing up in Queen's Brooklyn originally from Brooklyn and then I moved to Queens when I was fourteen, there was just a lot

of things that I felt kept replaying throughout my life. Um. And one of those things was people's people feeling as though they know who you are before they get to know who you are, they see you as one thing, just based on your pearance, and um, for me, it was people assuming that I was stuck up or bougie or conceited, and I'm the exact opposite. People would be like, you're actually nice. Well, yeah, I am nice, but I'm a tomboy. Like It's just I went through that my

whole life. And I've gotten into fights my entire life, um, ever since I was Um, I think onto my first fight when I was maybe twelve, and constantly you know, never a fight that you initiated, Oh god, no, no, no, no, never a fight that I initiated. But I became very tough skinned, very thick skinned because of misconceptions and whatnot. And um, and it also encouraged me to be strong because I felt like I was always defending myself. Do

you know what I mean. And I also grew up with that, you know, like I didn't want people to feel as that they could take advantage of me or play me, do you know what I mean? So it's like, okay, yes,

you go extra the other way, and that's why. And I could totally really you know, been growing up in the city and the pretty girls, we always know how to fight, Like don't I have a sleep on the pretty girls from New York Because we would look at certain girls and they'd be like, Oh, she's looking at us wrong, she's all stuck up, and we will I will always end up in a fight because I have I looked at somebody up and down, or because somebody's

boyfriend was being too friendly to me. Like being a pretty girl you have to be like on a high defense in New York City. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's just I got into a fight one time when I was a freshman in high school. No, no, actually I was a sophomore in high school and I got on the bus and this girl just looked at me and then snuffed me in the face. I never met this girl before, I never saw her. We had no affiliation or anything. We got into a fight on the bus.

That's crazy, just the thing, you know what I mean, And I understood what it was at the time, and that was just, you know, just my life. That's perceptive that you understood what it was. It's hard not to because it's more their issue than you're. You know, it's all there issue with themselves. But the first thing, if you know, you get into a situation with somebody, the first thing is, oh, this light skin bitch or you know, this piss colored bitch or bleach casper, you know, just

the joke. So it's it's not lost on you what's actually going on. You know, why there's issues and whatnot. And I'm not even saying that, you know, it's jealousy, like I'm not putting those things on you know, the people that you have have offended me. I'm just saying that our society, especially at that time, was just um divisive. It was very it was very divisive, you know what I mean, and that divisiveness was encouraged. So it was a whole societal issue within our culture and part of it.

I'm going to be honest, even from the other side of it, and I know it's going to sound strange for me. To say, but I even somewhat understand, just the same way that black people understand white privilege. As a light skinned woman, I understood light skin privilege and it does exist. Yeah, because if you see other music videos or even guys saying I only like yellow bones, only date light skan girl, we used to hear that

a lot. You know, are people being like I like mixed girls, the term good here, all of the exotic and all of that, and so yes, it's a fucked up way for exact people to think. And someone even put myself in the position of being like a darker complexed girl at the time and trying to imagine how that would feel. So not to give permission to it or to say that it's okay, but the very least I understood. And that's kind of how I try to go through life. I don't try to just look at

things through my perspective. I try to look at things through everyone involved perspective. Yeah, I mean, okay, let's talk about how envy even got you, because I say Rashwan was back then, Yes, actually was jan that's right. But I guess when you think about a DJ, envy is also not like the connotation but how he even got you is a really funny story. Right first he was kind of in the friend zone, but then you were dating somebody else and he called on three ways? So

can you tell this what he did? Because this is some crazy shit. So I had moved from Brooklyn to Queens, sorry to hear that night. Um, and then I transferred into a Shawn's school and I was a new girl in school, so I had options, do you know what I mean? And I was It's just the nature of it, right, So I was, you know, talking to different people, and I was talking to this kid from christ the kid, So I went to St. Francis, perhaps Shan and the king was big and bast your life might have been

way didn't first book? You know, I never looked him up, but he was on the swim team and we were talking. And when Rashawn first kicked it to me, not to say that I wasn't interested, but I just had, you know, I had options, and I was trying to figure out which way you want to He likes to tell this story. I wish you were here to tell it. I used to run I used to run track, and um, you know, we would wear these like skimpy little one piece track outfits and one short where I would, yes, like a

little exactly little short short's little you know. No, he did did wear him and I don't know, you know Mono, right, say Mono. So they've been friends longer than I've even known Rashan. Rashan I've been together for twenty seven years, so he's known Mono about thirty years. I remember they're

falling out girl, that's a whole Yes. Um. We wore like partial uniforms, so it's kind of like a dress code, but they gave you what pieces you could wear, so they would wear the slack pant, their little slack pants. Rashan will were like a pastel pink polo button down with the pink scrunch socks, and Randy would come in on the same days. He was a plan, right, Randy were coming on the same day with the lavender past though button down scrunch shocks, and at the time it

was very like swaggy, you know what I mean. So he did catch my attention and I did be like, oh, he's cute friend. At that point, you know, I think I thought he's I liked him, but he kept trying to give me a telephone number, and I was like, oh yea, yeah, I'm gonna call you. I'm gonna call you. And then he would come to school and I day, like, you didn't call and I'm like, he got caught up, you know whatever. He's like in case you lost it again.

And that's went on for some time, and then finally he was like, well, can I have your telephone number? I'll call you since you're like so big, So I gave him my number and then I finally picked up. And then after speaking to him for about like a week and two weeks, I was like, Wow, there's really there's really something to this kid. Like he's so charming and charismatic, and he was very invested, do you know

what I mean. It wasn't just like chit chat and like he was like trying to make me his wife. After like two weeks, you know, but I still had this other kid on the side. I didn't tell about really what Sean was on the side at that point because well, this is true, this is true, Sean was actually my side. Um. So Shan found out and he found out who the kid was, got his number, called him, and then called me on three way and was like, yes, So, um, I heard you talking to some and so and I

was like yeah. He was like, well, he's on the phone. Why I agree to this. It's like he's on the phone. So he was like, so right here and now I'm gonna need you to choose. I'm gonna needs you to pick. It's either me. And he was like, because I ain't share the ultimatum. Yeah, Netflix, Yes. I was like I got all hot and bothered, like I choose you. Yes. Then I was like sorry, Jonathan. Yeah. But because it was very it was very hard, it was manly, it

was assertive. That's not the type of thing you would have expected from a sixteen year old, you know. And he's never faltered on that, Like, that's one thing that he has been. He's been invested literally since day one. So I like that about him. But I like a man's man, you know, Like I like someone that's very manly. And I know when the show, you guys joke and play, and you know, there's a certain persona associated with that, you know what I mean. He can't change a tire,

but no, he can't. He can't put a hole in the wall to hang a picture, but like you know, and you know that's what he would say. Yeah, So I'm like all right, you know, so so I like that about him, you know. Um, and then we started dating and like we fell in love with each other like quick immediately, it had. So let me ask you this, and the time that he was courting you because you were keeping your options open for you the only person he was talking to then, or were they like other

girls that he was entertaining. I'm just curious. It was just it was just tunnel vision. Yeah, No, it was tunnel vision. It was just me, and he made sure that it was just him, so it was yeah, we were exclusive immediately. Did your parents like him right away? Well, the truth is my father liked him because Rashawn always came across as very very protective, well protective you know. Um. My mother liked him, but my mother thought that he

was too immature for me. So one day I come downstairs, she's like, come in my room, going there, and she's like, m do you think that maybe he might be a little image too immature for you? And I'm like, well, why would you say that. She's like, oh, he just walks into the house and it's like I'm Mrs Grante Grant and then he just goes upstairs, right, He doesn't engage in conversation upstairs. Oh yeah, and my parents were

very cool. I was gonna say, because I wasn't allowed to have boys in my room when I was in high school. I had such a dope relationship with my mother and my father that they knew that if I allowed a boy into my room that nothing was going to happen. Did you, well, you're allowed to have boys in your room. I was having slumber parties in high school. I was having some of her, but now a boy like I had coed sumber I had a co ed slumber party when and I'm talking about like from temp

grade all the way through. So do you allow your kids like this is your daughters or sons, like can they have I would? I would at them only because I raised my children the way I was raised. Is there a certain age where you're like it's okay or just in general? Well, I just think it's inappropriate before you know, like maybe like seventeen um. I would trust my kids from the yet. But I would say, like seventeen um, if a parent that of an invitee allows

their child to come and sleep over. It's okay with me as long as you Yeah, I'm both of my kids. I would because I was raised in a very open conversation communication type of households, so where there was so much trust, and my parents poured so much into me, and they taught me right from wrong and morals and you know, all of these things. And they always wanted me to live my best life. They always wanted me to have fun. They always encouraged me to be the

best at anything that I attempted to do. They believed in me. So I would never do anything to dishonor them. And the proof is in the pudding. You know. I was of Shawn took my virginity like I was a virgin. I did you know what he was doing? Um, I mean we both, we both, I don't have to think about it. Like we both were in this in the same space regarding that. So I think we were because he was kind of virgin ish. Yeah, Like we were

both extremely inexperience in experience. You guys were learning together. So we were learning together to that was so fast because he probably was so excited like Atla always came. He not like he was tender, and he took his time and he was considerate, he was thoughtful. He made a whole situation out of it. He asked my permission. He did have a mixed tape. I remember. That was hilarious. It was like the whole It was at the Marriott

Marquis in Times Square. Yes, first experiencing. Yes, here's a horror stories. I had a nice one, you know, like you said, I had a guy who was really considerate and chancel and he made sure everything was really moist. He ate it before he tried anything. It was really nice, you know, and slow, and I felt really loved. And you know, some girls have such horrible stories about their first My face time is terrible. I hated. But we waited a year. We had sex on our one year anniversary.

So it was planned, like this is the day we're gonna do it in the hotel. Didn't decide, but I knew that I would not before one year, you know, like I had to be in love and I had to be ready, you know, I was sixteen. I had to be ready. Watch corner like how did you learn? How did you learn? Now? But what we'll talk about that in a second. To that did you have to ask anybody, like what am I supposed to do? Or you just went in like I just went in, like

we're two young kids, like we'll figure that. It's not too it's not that hard and so long, and like you said, you were already in love. So the passion was there, the chemistry was there, and even though y'all didn't know really what I was doing, I'm sure y'all like we figured it out out. No, yes, okay, did you come? No? Because you didn't, Okay I did. My first boyfriend, I didn't come like I didn't. What did

you think? I didn't. Actually, my son from my first that's my one year old, and the pot dickens, like I didn't know. I thought women can only come from I didn't know that why he was pet so I never knew how to while until you know, that's a whole conversation. And it's crazy because he didn't even teach me that the whole time I was with him. I

didn't know. You just had no ideas. And in my first sex sexual ID, I did because I had an world before I actually you know had Yeah, so I was coming from that before I knew what it was. But I didn't come from into course the first time I had sex. No, not not all right. I also think if you're both kind of inexperienced, he doesn't know how to make you come, of course, right, course, of course not. No. I was sixteen, he was seventeen, and that's perfect. Like I said, like I was a virgin.

He was virgin ish. You know, he had attempted with someone his first girlfriend before, but just never finished. He told you that like early Okay, oh yeah, yeah, I knew, I knew, I knew what the girl was like, you know, oh my god, that was virgin and that was his first girlfriend, you know, but he didn't see it all the way through. I've never heard about his first girlfriend. So you guys all went to school together. No, no, no,

she was just a girl from his neighborhood. Okay, so was he still cool with her like while he No, he never spoke to her again. I y, yeah, that was it. I want to see pictures of you guys in high school. You guys would Probaba came to work one day devastated because he said that you had told him that you weren't you were faking orgasms, And we actually got to you a present. Okay, here you go, it's a T shirt. No fake orgasm both. Luckily I haven't had to fake an orgasm about married twenty one

years and about at least maybe eleven years. What made you talent that years? Truthfully? Because we we're having sex for years and I was faking like all of my orgasms, all all of the through intercourse, okay, and you were like everything what it was a whole performance that it was because it was it because you guys were going through things around that time in your relationship and you were not mentally No, that's not the reason why we talk about it in great detail in the book from

my perspective and from his perspective. But it was my fault. It wasn't his fault. You know, as women, we are well known as girls were raised to think that women are like playthings for men. You know, we are here for the pleasing for the men, and we're taught that subconsciously. When you think about it, billboards, beautiful women advertising everything, sexy cars with a sexy woman draped across the hood.

Even now, Instagram just everything is built on the back of sex and sexuality and anything relating to sex and We're kind of programmed that way when you think about it. Um, So when I started having sex, I was acting on that program. You know, I'm thinking that I yes, and and it also felt good. You know when you when you take a test and you get are like yes, you know what I mean. So when I'm engaging in intimate situations with my boyfriend and my husband and I'm

pleasing him like, it feels like yes. And you all know, the more you perform, the more excited they get, the more they think that they're putting in, the better the whole experience is. But for the fact that there's a big orgasm for you at the end. But you're performing, you're thinking about, Okay, how do I look, How does my face look? How am I moving in life? Yes? And then at the end I would feel like I could just you know, reach over, grab a cigarette of life,

you know, like it felt like that. So it was partially from my ego and it was also to enhance his ego. And then I was going down a rabbit hole, do you know what I mean? Because once I started it right, I can't go back and undo it. Did Okay, enough is enough? Let me let him know what's going on? Like, what was the turning point for you to be like, let me stop this and let him know it's really not So we had gotten into an argument, okay about

something that wasn't even related, and that's significant work. You didn't the garage, but guess what, I don't come like that. It was similar. It wasn't as an insignificant I was taking out the garbage, but it was something insignificant, and I was frustrated because he had no interest in resolving the problem and then to put a patch on it. He wanted to have sex with me because if I bleep her down, then she'd be happy. Because even though

speaking my orgasms, I enjoyed every moment. It was the intimacy, it was the love and just sidebar. You know, for women it's not really when when you have an orgasm, it's not really about the man. I can have an orgasm if for Sean's penis was three inches now, because I know it's about me. It's about the connection, It's about the love. It's about stopping and concentrating on my

own body, my own sensations, and being less performative. It's about taking during the sexual experience and not worrying so much about giving. And once I learned to do that, I'm like, oh my gosh, I have all this power within myself to control my body and to control the degree to which I enjoy it. I have an orgasm every single time. Whether it's oral, whether it's intercourse, it

really doesn't matter. And it's because I dictate that. So what I did that day by blurting it out because I was so upset, I'm like, you just wanna you just want to glaze over this with sex, and I'm not even gonna come. I'm like, well, guess what I'm thinking it. He was like, he was like, well, how long have you been facing it? I was like, well, I've never not faked it. And let me tell you, I'm gonna be honest with you. Um. That was the absolute worst thing that I could have done in my marriage.

It was the worst thing. And it wasn't the honesty that was so terrible. It was the way in which I delivered in the midst of an argument. It wasn't well thought out. It was harsh, it was insensitive, it was hurtful, it was spiteful, and I used it as a tool a weapon. I did I weaponized it that would make him not get when you you know, because for a guy his ego and I saw in the book you talked about how do you tell somebody they're not good in bed? And you're like, you don't, you don't,

you don't. Why would you destroy somebody like that? No, there are other ways that you can communicate what you want to make it better to get to that point without crushing them, because when you love somebody, you don't crush him. And I wasn't loving him right In the book, there's a whole section on right fighting. You know, we would are you just to be right to My goal going into an argument was to that was the only thing that mattered. Getting to a common ground didn't matter.

Resolving the issue didn't matter. And you know, being in a safe space just nothing mad as long as I could walk away and like puff my chest out like it's stupid, like you know what I mean, And that that was so misguided and it was young, it was inexperience,

it was dumb. It was dumb, and um that's part of the reason why we wrote the book, because had I had a tool like that, then I would have seen all the flaws in myself, and I would have been able to identify the flaws in him because it was like a tennis man, like we were just messing up left and right with each other. I would have been able to identify those things and made some changes I could, of course corrected. But the problem is a

lot of girls. They don't sit down. They don't have a relationship with their mother the same way that I had a relationship with you know what I mean. A lot of girls are just out there for themselves and learning from their friends and talking ish and you know doing You're not getting information from a safe place. We've been through. I feel like everything. Okay, let's go back to that, because in the early days I had no

idea that he was this like ridiculously controlling. Now he talks about an incident where, you know, he was going to DJ and you went to a club the armory at the Army and then one of his snitche college party was like gears in the club and he turned around from on the road and came to the club and found you grinding on somebody because you know is by Jamaicans. Yes, he was grinding on somebody, and he snatched you right up sure did not in a an abusive way, like a like a rag doll, treated me

like a rag doll. Yes, what happened was ever since day one, he was very very possessive, controlling and like obsessive even you know, um, I think he still gives me that he doesn't know. I don't think it's he controls it now. It's in a constructive way. Sometimes, you know, it's like he's more so about providing and protecting. It's not about the obsession and the controlling, because now he realizes that I love him for him, I truly love him, and he couldn't chase me away from him at this point,

do you know what I mean? So he doesn't have that insecurity that ruled him because, as he says in the book, he was so preoccupied thinking that one day I would meet somebody more fill in the blank than him, as he puts it, more handsome, more charismatic, more intelligent, more this, more of that. So for him, he felt as though he just wanted to keep me like Rapunzel in the tower, like I don't want you going out, and I don't want you hanging out with your friends.

I don't want you wearing anything that shows your cleavage. I don't want you do you know what I mean. I don't do don't work anymore, I don't want when he literally did not want me out in public unless I was out with him. And where that halfway flew for me was the fact that I truly loved being with him when we were in high school and as it speaks to that day that he wasn't there um when I was attacked. We were together every day after school, like every single day, every day, not one day except

that day were we not together. We left school together, we got something to eat, we went and did something fun, and before the end of the evening he dropped me home back at my mom's you know what I mean? Like we were together. Even in college, we were together every single day. I was at O DU. He was at Hampton. Every day after his last class. He would come and pick me up after my last class, bring me back to Hampton. I slept at his house. Then he brought me back to O d you in the

morning before my first class. And then we did that every single day until I replaced my car because I got into an accident, which is why he had to come and pick me up. But we genuinely enjoyed spending all of our time together. So for me, it wasn't as alarming. I didn't feel as though I was in a vice. I didn't feel like, oh my gosh, I just can't breathe. I just want to do this such a no, I just wanted He was okay, so let's talk about that day, because you did go to the

club and tell them you weren't. So what was going on that day? That day? He was doing a club at Virginia State. So again we're in Hampton, right, and he got hired to do a club ina averrging Estate. I couldn't fit in the car because it would always be me and all of his friends. I was always there to be like ten dudes and me. But I couldn't fit in the car obviously, and he needed you know guys, you know, security type thing his friends and whatnot,

so I couldn't go. So it was a college party at the Armory and he was like, yeah, you know you're not going to that party, right, And I was like, yeah, but I am going to the party. So like, what's gonna happen? He was like, he was like, now you're not going, and it turned into this big argument. So finally I was like, all right, I'm not gonna go, but I am, but I am just and the argument.

So he goes. He gets on the road and then little Sean, who was like family to us, but it started so mad at him, honestly, yes, and he's like my homie too, what I'm trying? What the fun? Stabbed me in the back. So I go with all my girls. I drove and I'm there and yeah, like they're playing dance hole and I was dancing with this dude. How you were dancing, you know, like Brooklyn basement party, already against the world like I used to, with my feet on the wall, the wine on my head like you do,

like your hand. But that was, yeah, that was the thing. That's what the departments and field. We were familiar with each other. Yes, I knew who he was, he knew who I was, but we weren't like cool or anything like that. Sean. Let's exactly. So we were dancing and my head was down, you know, and I just looked up and I saw Rashawn literally charging at me, charging at me. It was like that moment, you know, how he's saying like your life flash before my heart like

that whatever that horrionis. Or I was like and next time I was up and over his shoulder and he just ran me to like the next side of the of the room and he put me down. Everybody's looking. He was like, yo, how could you do this to me? Like, oh, I can imagine like I'm watching you dance with him from across the room, or I could imagine that you

having sex with him. It was just this whole like it really it really bothered him just to see someone else touching me, especially in like a sexual type of way. You know. I saw that, so it really affected him. I was like, we were just dancing, you know, like everybody knows that you're like this, and he and he knows that, like he knew that, and he was like, we're leaving. I'm like, I can't because I drove and

you probably didn't want to. Of course I didn't want to at that point, like I know, I wasn't gonna have fun. Now he's standing standing behind me, like literally like holding me from behind because he's taller than me, and it was just like he was like claiming his property, do you know what I mean? And I literally just waited for the rest of my girlfriends to have fun and then we left and he was heartbroken, you know

he was. He was heartbroken. So let me ask you this because you know clearly like we and I know this is in the book too, the time that he ended up calling you because he did funk up in the relationship. So that must have really cut you off guard because you see him doing all these things and when you're young, showing you how much he's in love with you. He doesn't want anybody else around you. He's so um, possessive and jealous. So did that catch you

completely off guard? To say that I was thrown for a loop would be the biggest understatement. We had our problems, you know, but our problems were rooted in his insecurity, and those are problems that I felt as though I could manage if I loved him out of it, because I knew that once he understood that he was as amazing as he really was and that I was as in love with him as I really was, that he would eventually grow out of that, because that's all that

that was. He didn't think he did believe that he deserved me, when he absolutely did. He absolutely did, so I knew that I just had to give of myself, but I don't know, I just I felt so bad for him at that time. So yeah, I was really caught off guard because he was so affectionate, he was so loving, consistent, He was consistent, he was generous, he was thoughtful, He was more romantic than I have ever been. He always like he's the he's the romantic one in

the relationship. He's the one that's going to think of off the wall things, grand things like he's gonna he's gonna do the words. Even with twelve days of Christmas, it's not even the gifts, because start shopping almost a year about sometimes like he's shopping like a year in advance. He does all of these things, and throughout our entire relationship he would say things like if you like it, I love it, or I live to make you happy. Just seeing that smile on your face it's all that

I need. And he's never faltered in that. So while he was carrying through his indiscretion, he was still that amazing husband to me at home. And again, not that we weren't flawed, but our flaws were relatively specific and surrounding one thing. I would have never like our friends, everyone in our life, my mother grew to absolutely adore him, his parents love you, his parents loved me like. It

was wonderful. Far from perfect, but it was wonderful. I would have never thought that he even had it in him. I couldn't even wrap my mind around the fact that like he could be attracted to somebody else, so that he could. It was hard for me to understand because he put so much into our relationship, do you know what I mean? And then logically you think like, well, there's that, but you're so worried about losing me. But in this situation, you're doing everything that you can to

ensure that you lose me. Because I was raised by very strong parents, particularly a very strong mother, and I have always been very clear and just in my life. You know, at the time especially, I was very black and white, like, not very gray. I don't put up with anything from anyone, not friends, not boyfriends, not husband, not my children. I'm very clear about in my life

what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. And at that time particularly, I wasn't very tolerant and I absolutely was not a forgiving person. If my friend messed up with me, Like, I don't even call you to tell you that a problem with what we what you did. I just not talking to you that block you, like like it's not even worth a conversation. And that's my personality. So he knew, like he knew what he was up against when he

did that. That's crazy because you know, even looking back to that time and you're talking about it in the book and everything and being open and honest about it. I never would have even thought that would happen. But do you feel like, because we've discussed this, you don't like being public. You didn't even really want like your picture out there at the time. And yeah, and at that time, it wasn't like and was like posting. People didn't even know, Like some people acted like they didn't know.

I remember somebody was like, oh, yeah, I mean he's not. I was like, yes, he's definitely married, like because you could google it and see it's not and I had seen a press confidence that you did exactly. Listen, let's just be very clear, Like I wasn't a public person, but people knew that Rashaun was married. We were serious together. I always knew that he was married. People knew. He was on Miss Jones in the Morning for years prior, and he talked about me, he talked about the kids.

And then on top of that, we went through a whole public debacle with another radio show host that I refused to mention the name. I did a press conference that radio jock was fired, his multimillion dollar his multimillion dollar contract was killed. It was done because he was in violation. I mean, it was a very very big thing. It was on tent Tex, it was on the news, We were in the newspapers. I was no way somebody didn't know. Anybody that claims that I was a secret

is a freaking lunatic. So if you're you've never been to their house and nothing, that they've never closed a picture of you, there's no way you could really think that's like a real situation. Of course, not even even if even if he's trying to make you believe that. So you're like, you still know as a woman, we do, we go and do and I mean like like what so what now? Google isn't the thing? Right? Like? Are you just gonna play stupid? Aby? Do you google them? Right? Awes?

I do? If? I okay, I'm not if I don't trust me. The moment I tell him, give me a second, what's their name again? And they're looking like I just said, it's so funny they want my friends because I'm like, well, no, because he's really nice and no, but hold on, girl, what's his name again? How are you spelling? Where do they live? They'll come back with the whole background check. So if I'm not doing it, trust them, believe one

of my close friends. The second I mentioned a guy's name, they're like, they don't forgive me any time I even consider somebody now with God, not worth even if even they're checking. I found a guy that I started talking to, but this was back in high school and it was the first guy that I actually got it. My first orgasm was with this guy at there my son's dad and when I met him. We met him at a club in Miami, play back in the days. It's called six o nine and cocing a girl, and I met

him there. He was just so fine, dressed in all khaki tan khaki um dickies. I talked to my friend about him, and like two days later, while he was in school, she's like, pitch, what girl he was on? Inmate dot com. He has this much record. I just got out of prison, like my job. I was a senior in high school. She said, he just got out of prison. I'm like, how keep finding all that ship out? Like, yeah, yeah, I will tell you everything. Sometimes you'd be like, girl,

stop telling me right, Like I don't want to know. Yes, so with him, Like if you're in a position to take a particular interest in him, then yes, I'm sure that you can google it. Let's be real. That was it for you to actually come out like and be more in the you know, like you guys have had the podcast together because you were so private before that. Yes,

I wasn't deliberately private. I I am not a private person, um, the type of person like I'll share everything because I just feel like when you share your life with people as we do on the podcast, as we did in the book, it's there's a sense of community in that where you share your reality and it gives other people, particularly you know, for us women, um, something to relate to, and you realize like you're not the only one. You're not the only one that that bad things happen to.

You're not the only one that felt that way, and it's like a sisterhood in that. So for me, being open and sharing the good and the bad is very, very important because in our day and age, you know, everything is about image, and you only know about people if you're based on something a platform like social media, what they want you to perceive them to be. They create exactly, and it's it's very particular, and it's in

a way manipulative, do you know what I mean? So if you're just sitting back and taking all this sin and believing it, then what does it take for you know, a young girl to look at somebody or even a grown ass woman to be like, damn, my life ain't should because look at this, this is reality. There's something wrong with me. There's something wrong with my relationship, maybe there's something wrong with my upbringing, and it just breads insecurity.

But when you can see people for who they really are and what they really go through, you could say, Okay, well you know what, maybe it's not great, but at least there's a sense of community here where I feel as though I'm not the only one I can relate. There's a reference point for you, you know. So for me, it's always been important to share and to be open about it. So I just I was never interested in social media at the time. I've never been to this day,

I've never even opened up a Facebook page. I don't even know what the Facebook home page out there keeps telling me that, right that I've never been on Twitter, I've never tweeted, Like, I've never tweeted, you know what I mean. My daughter was I don't know, be eleven or twelve or thirteen whatever and put me onto Instagram. So if you go to my Instagram, the very first picture is just a picture of Madison's eye because we were sitting on this and she was like, no, it's

like you take a picture. She took a picture of her eye, she posted it. She showed me how to do it, and I was like, oh, that's what this thing is. I didn't even really understand or grasp social media. Meanwhile, Rashawn was on Twitter, Shawn was on Instagram. Sidebar. All the evidence like stuff was there. And I mean, so I wasn't deliberately like one of your friends because she was like connected in the industry and that yes, I had met this older woman and she was in the industry,

like she had managed some people and whatnot. We had daughters the same age, My daughter in Madison were the same age, and we started hanging out. The girls went to camp together, and every week he found a reason for me to not hang out with her or I think that she's this, And it was reminiscent of how he was in college, you know, is like, yes, he felt like she would be the potential to closer to

the truth, right what had happened she well, listen. I feel like, and I always say this, like on on the Breakfast Club and I say it in real life, but whatever decisions people making their relationship, like it is what it is. If you decide something happens, if you want to stay, that's on you. If you decide something happens, you want to leave. Because I also feel like women get like demonized for leaving and giving up too, Like

I've heard that so much. Like really, I'm all the time people act like something wrong with you as a woman if you don't want to stick through something, if you're not right or die if I've definitely and you know what part of it might be because I work with men, and I've always worked around a lot of men, so they make it seem like from a man's perspective, right, and they feel like writer Die is important, right, Like, you know, listen, all of us have been through a

lot of things in this room, and we've made decisions and it's not a right decision or a wrong decision. It's just a personal decision, you know. And so for yourself, it took a lot for you to decide to stay. And I think that's important too, because I'm sorry to instrupt, but I didn't stay because I was a writer die. I just want to put that out there right right reason and listen on the Breakfast Club, and he was

so distracted every single day at work. I was like, we would be doing interviews, we would be doing a show, he wouldn't know what was going on. He would be on his phone the whole time. I would be like, I didn't know if the show was going to continue because he was so and it was early on he was so like every day he wasn't doing all interviews, he was leaving. There was days he wasn't coming in at all, you know, because he was trying to figure

out what am I gonna do? He was so devastated and like normally for myself, like I think about You know, I've been in situations and clearly I'm not married, but you know, I've been in situations where something's happened, a guy's cheated, and I'm like, I'm not dealing with that anymore because i know how I'm going to be. It actually made me look at things different really to see what your guy's situation was, you know what I'm seeking

to see, like how he was reacting. I actually felt bad for him, and normally I wouldn't feel bad for a guy who did the things that he did. But it made me look at things differently. You know. So let's talk about that time period because there are guys that really do mess up, and there are women that want to stay in their relationship and fix things but they don't know how. Oh no, I didn't want to stay in my relationship with Like I said, I was

very black and white. So as soon as I found out that what I had had a notion of was true, um, and you would have to read it in the book because it is a very Yeah, it's a long story. I don't want to tell that because if you need people to buy this book, but it's a very it's a very interesting story. That pulls at your heart from different directions. But once I found out that it was true, Um, we were in a car. I'll tell a little bit.

I realized it, and I decided that I had to confront him, but in a way that would get him to confess because you didn't know all the details, you know, we did. I had to absolutely mind bleep him. I had to make him think that I knew and that I wasn't coming to him and asking him if it was true. I was basically telling him that I knew it to be true, giving him giving you an opportunity

to have a conversation about it. You can tell me whatever you want me to know about it, or you can say nothing at all, because I know, while really I knew nothing, I just believed it to be true. You wanted to You weren't sure, and I wasn't sure. My intuition told me that it was true. And it's just it's that it's that thing that you try to shoot away. Your intuition is telling you something negative that you don't want to believe. But you know, damn well,

there's something too. And it was nothing he was doing in the home. But I couldn't figure out in my own reality, why this particular information would be on a block. Do you know what I mean? So I confronted him. Long story short, he confessed. It was very heart wrenching. We were in a car in a home depot parking lot. I called him. I told him I was on my way home, and I was like, we need to talk. He's like, we need What do you mean we need to talk because watching on TV after dinner tonight, you

know what I mean. It's like, I was like, just meet me at home. Now. Both of us are about maybe twenty five minutes away from the house. I was like, meet me at home. He's like, now are you at right now? I was like, I'm on seventeen, about to pass the home depot. He's like, pull into the parking lot. I'll be there in ten minutes. RIGHTS like now he couldn't wait the extra twelve minutes to get home. Pull

into home depot parking lot. He pulls up. I confront him again, Long story short, he confesses, and I pulled away from him, and I remember looking at my real re view mirror and just seeing him sitting on the curb crying. I went straight to my house. It was a few days before Christmas, my mother in law was there, his mom. Yes, my mother in law was there and we were decorating because we were hosting Christmas that year. And I walked right upstairs. She was standing right outside

my kids play room. I was like, yes, so, um, we're Shan and I are getting a divorce. Who And she was like, I said, yeah, there's no Christmas this year, so you could just let we could pack everything back up because this marriage is over. And she's lying pretty much that he sent to me in the car when I confronted him, whoever told you, they're just jealous? That's what his mama said. So his mother said the same thing, Mama, God bless her. I love her to death. But no,

But you have to understand, nobody would have believed. Nobody would nobody, our friends, our family, because he did not present himself in the world that way. And honestly exactly because even me, like I had been in the club with him, you know, we were doing the breakfast class. I've never seen him do anything. Yes, I think he had an indiscretion. I think that he made a bad decision. I don't call it a mistake. He made a bad

decision and sidebar a huge catalyst. A huge cause of the reason why was because of what I told him just some years earlier about I was going to ask you that. Yes, that was the biggest reason, because now he had this huge hole in his ego and he was hurt, and now he needed someone or something to validate him, you know. And when he's at home, you know, he's just for Shawn, husband and father, you know what I mean. But when he's in the streets, he's empy,

you know what you mean. And it wasn't until you know, sometime after I went out with him, I'm like, well, you got groupies girls dance is seductively in front of the DJO get your attention. Like the times he's been at me and I've gone like, I really don't see, Like it's literally June um. And then if I'll come like me, I really don't, so I wouldn't imagine yes,

And then that's another thing. He's like, yeah, we're going out, and then it's like two and the one las two in the one, right, So I really have I really seen Yeah? Yeah, June, like I've never really seen you know, women really around one time. Yeah, but it was your home girls. I believe that I met, but it's because like he keeps and I'm not saying I'm not saying that he was out there. He was for the streets like he I mean, like it was a situation that

he got himself into. I'm not saying that it happened over a long period of time. I'm not saying that it happened with multiple women. I'm just saying that And it could have been one woman, that could have been fifty two women. For me, it didn't make a difference. It was the betrayal. It was the lies that you had to tell me to get this done. Considering what we have and what we had between us was very special. So it's particularly devastated. Is it pardy that it was

public too? Like? Because I feel like that's another layer. It's one thing when something happens and the whole you know, everybody don't have to know about it, but it's a whole other thing when people are like, you know, having people wait in in on it. It would have carried out the same way. Um, whether it was public or private, nothing would have changed. But of course it was more difficult because after he said what he said on the breakfast club public apology. I was like, don't do it.

He seemed very remote. It was it was the last ditch attempt for him to try to do something that he thought was a grand gesture of his love, because he had been trying for quite some time after I had found out to relinquish what we had and it was failing. And um, the night before he did that, something significant had happened. Again, it's in the book, but something significant had happened, and he realized, like, oh, it's over. Over, Like this isn't a bluff. He knew it in his heart.

A heartment, he was trying, it's not a bluff. Like she's already paid a divorce attorney, she's already told her, her mother, my parents, the kids, like I was preparing everybody, and the worst party was over. He had the narrative, asked June to come to you and talk to you. Come on. I don't know doing was the right person

for that, because it's a great now. Dune is a great guy, but you're not like you got to know if I have a called June to try to salvage nothing him about a geek and I'm looking at him the same way that I look at people that don't know me, and that I don't know Rashawn, that's say, oh, she stayed with him for the money, right, And I'm sitting there and I remember looking at him that day

when he's like, you're gonna leave all of this? You know, we were in a club when he said that to me, and I was like, so, you're gonna compare my love in my heart to like material, some pounds of leather, to like some handbags, some shoes, some jewelry. Jewice said this, Yeah, yeah, but you were not the right person, like you misunderstood this. It's actually that's actually the thought that I had in

that moment. I was literally thinking to myself, like, you're going to compare like my love, my emotions, my life to some leather. And you know, that's why gets really think about it, like people try to act like Gea was like there because honestly, and he says this all the time and it's in the book, but you were

the one that was the breadwinner. At first. He really did not want you to leave and go work and everything, you know, and you were very supportive of him and has come up and he's always very making sure that people know that story because you were together from such a young and sixteen seventeen and so that's why even with the Jesus and Marrow situation, he was so angry. He knows the real he knows what really was going

on versus people see you today. Yeah, and you know, I think that with the whole Jesus and Merrow thing, Um, I think what bothered him. I think that he felt as though he was defending me, but at the same time, what they said, what is that insinuating? Yes, I know it was poised as a joke, but we all know that jokes, all jokes are rooted into something, do you

know what I mean? And that something is what bothered him because it suggests that that's all that he's worth, that all he's worth, all that he's good for is right. And I think that that was the message that was a little disturbing. And in this business they do act like if a man is providing and financially making sure you're good. You've got a nice house, you got the family,

you know, a little cheating is okay. Yeah. No, not for me, No, not for me, because I think that as women we do deserve it all you know, if we are deserving. When A. J. Johnson was on the Breakfast Club and I know you've seen this A J. Johnson and we asked her, like, you know, would you want to know Gia ever when out with somebody else during the time that y'all had a break if anything ever happened. He said he would never want to know that.

Did you see that, um she was in house party? Yes? Yes, yes, yeah. Oh he's telling the damn truth, right. He does not want to know him. I have asked him like, just you know, you're laying in bed, you having stupid conversations, you know. And I've asked him on several occasions, you know, like so if I ever had an indiscretion, would you ever stopped out on you? Would you want to know? He's like, keep it to yourself. He does not want

to know. He was like, I can't take it. We know that, but yeah, because you know that she's I mean, that was crazy because that turned into a whole conversation of like why would you not want to because you guys did have a period of time when you were not together, Like I mean, when you were like it's over and you thought, see because it would have been okay for you, right you think at that time to

be like, let me go out with somebody else. M At that time, my focus was on how I was going to co parent, how I was going to be divorced. But keeper Shawn insane because when I told him I wanted a divorce, which was that same day, he sunk to a very very very low place, and I couldn't necessarily think about my feelings at that time. I was thinking about him, and I was thinking about my kids. I still wanted my divorce, but I would say things

like we can co parent. I don't hate you, you know, was pre I just don't want to be married to you. I just want to be your wife's morning. If you would have said I hate you, I think it might have. I think I think it might have. But you know, like for me, I feel like women, particularly men too, But I'm talking about women. You make a lot of bad decisions because you make them with your heart. Do you know what I mean? For me, it's the head

and it's the heart. And I always listened to my head before I listened to my heart, because you know your heart will be like yeah, girl, like forgive him. Your head is like, um, so should I remind you about all the to put you in this situation? The head keeps you straight, do you know what I mean? So for me, it didn't matter if I was devastated, if I was crying my face into a pillow every night, it didn't matter how I felt. I didn't care about

how I felt. I cared about what I had made up my mind to do, and I was going to do it. And you know how they say only God could come down. God literally had to come down and intervene in my relationship in a way that I couldn't chalk up to coincidence. My marriage that and you got this. Let me tell you that has got honestly that story, um in the book it it has to be, if not the most significant thing, one of the absolute most significant things that has ever happened to me. It's the

reason why I don't regret what we went through. It was like a gift and a curse because I benefited so much more from that point than I ever suffered because of what He did to get us to that point. So you think your relationship is stronger now, that's like, that's an understanding. You know, I've said this before. I feel like sometimes that doesn't do it. Just things like that, when you go through stuff in a relationship, even cheating, that can't make your relationships stronger if the work is

done to correct the course. Yes, Um, there's a chapter in the book called the New Deal, and for me it's probably I don't say I dare to say my favorite chapter, but it's a very very important chapter that's near and dear to me. A lot of women asked like, how did you forgive? How did he get back in your good graces? Like how are you able to laugh about that now? Because I could laugh about it now. I don't hold anything, not a morsel in my heart

because of what happened. Because you know, like, if you've ever been cheated on by someone that you love, that could be like fifteen years down the line you're still thinking about You're still harboring resentment. Exactly me. I've absolutely been able. I've been given the blessing of being able to completely let it go and move on and be in a happier place than I ever thought was even possible. Are there ever triggers for you? Like not anymore? But

let me be very clear, it took years. This happened. Um, this happened about twelve years ago when I found out. When I read that blog, it was already about two years old. It had already ended two years prior to when I found out. So I was finding out about old old stuff, do you know what I mean? It just happened to resurface where I could like see that

it happened to see what I mean. But yeah, no, I at the time, it took I would say, about maybe three or four years for me to learn to gain wisdom, to really understand what love was, and to even more importantly understand what forgiveness for what real forgiveness is, because a lot of women you get cheated on and you stay, and it's like, well, of course, because you stay. You know, when you forgive, you don't forgive to relieve the other person of that burden. You forgive for yourself

so you can relinquish yourself with your onfernity. I know your parents for giving him. Well, here's the thing, So my father had already passed away. My father passed away when I was nineteen, and when this happened, my mother was probably three years into her battle with dementia, so she was never able to even know or understand what had happened. I don't no one to really talk to like that. Yeah, but I didn't need anyone, okay, Um,

I didn't need anyone. I've always been like the type of person that if something happens, I deal with it on my own. But you have friends together that you had had from when you were teenagers. We do, right, So what about with them? Like, what kind of advice were they giving you? Nothing? I didn't bring this to any of my friends, so they weren't calling you like, girl, we've seen what's going on, like are you okay? Rashid See, at the time, we were being approached by different production

companies who we have to do a reality show. We were approached by Real Housewives of New Jersey and just you know, producers that wanted to produce a family show. And it was like in the blogs. I don't even know how the blogs found out about that stuff, but you know, they found out and we were seeing like different posts and everything. So my best friend who lives in California, um l a with my other best friend.

It's a couple of Sasha and Raschid. He had heard about what had happened when ra Seawan apologized and he thought that it was like fake to drum up public publicity for reality TV. So when he called me and he was like I heard and so and so forth, he was like, and I'm like sitting it like it's this phrase. I was like, oh no, no, no no, honey, it's all true. It is all true. Everything that you read,

it is all true. And he's like blown away. And he was the one person, the only person in my entire life of friends and family that did not support Rashwan. And he always said he's too controlling, he's too obsessive, he's too possessive, and I just he needs you too much. And if you're ever to leave him, I just don't know what would happen. You know, you need to consider maybe moving on or moving away slowly. And I was like I would tell him, likeny, like it's not that seriously, Rashaan.

I've never been afraid of Rashwan. I've never been like, he's never been physically abused, like nothing like himself. He would do something to himself. He would, it's not even before he would never, but he never, Yes, he would do something to himself. And it's always been Rashawn's thing, like if we got into a bad argument, if I was throwing now, mind you, I've We've never broken up a day in twenty seven years. I've tried, just like

when I tried to divorce it. Don't think when you guys are going through your things that you were broken up. It just seems like I was trying had to be delicate with him because I was worried about his mental state. Is the most responsible person I've ever known. He's never late. He shows up to work like everyone if he does. If he does, it's because it's something that's beyond his control. Like he doesn't wake up late. He doesn't like disregard, you know what. Like he shows up to work, he

gets he pays bills on time. Like he is someone that you can really really rely on on. And at that time I would hear like he would not show up for work, not he's coming to call his boss and not call his co host and say hey, I'm not coming in or whatever. I would go in the room in the morning and he would just be laying there because wectually be in the same room. He was sleeping in the guest room. So I'll go down the hall, and I would open the door and it would be

locked up. They had a credit card, and I got to break into the room. I get in there and I'm like, okay, I'm like, you're not going to work. He's like f work, He's like F life. I shouldn't even be here. He was on a slippery slope, you know. So we didn't actually break up. I'm like, okay, you can stay here. Like I felt that I could kind of take care of him and just get us to a place where I got what he what I wanted, but that he was safe. Do you know what I mean?

So no, we we've never actually broken up. Okay, So man, Yeah, I appreciate you for coming out here and being still open and honest. I love hearing your perspective, you know, because I see why you told him to stay home. I see why woul everybody over talking. You know what

I'm saying. We all know his side of the story so many different times we've heard him talk about it, so it was nice to hear things from your point of view, you know, as always, And you know, I'm glad that you guys wrote this book because there's a lot of gems in here. I know y'all are doing a ton of press even just thinking about marriage and the importance of marriage and how do you know it's time for you to get married? You have a whole like questions about how you know that. But I think

this is really helpful. Like I said, I've seen a lot of these things transpired, but I didn't know the full story. I only knew things from Envy's point of view, you know, But I've always been team Gear, as you know. At one point he was like, you're the only girl that's allowed to be in my phone for work purposes, you know, and even for yourself moving forward, right, you have access to everything, so you don't even have to Yeah. Yeah, Like it's kind of like we're one, do you know

what I mean? Like with his Instagram, Like I'm in his Instagram, he's in my Instagram, so I could just double tap and then all of a sudden, I have control of his Instagram. He calls it a phone up a phone up relationship. So we have access to each other's Instagram and to each other's email. And it's not through a sense of control or anything like that. It's

just that you're completely open. Was this like that prior to the incident always or do you feel that I'm not the type of person that would ever go through a man's phone, because if I have to do that, then I don't want to be with you. You know, I'm not playing detective work. I'm not like even when I found that blog that day, I googled looking for pictures from a photo shoot that he had just complained. I was like, you know, it's about been about three weeks,

like the picture should be up. So I google and I was looking for like the magazine photos and whatnot. When I google dj Envy, this blog came up and I was like, what was that? And I've never been on that blog, so I'm like, men, I'm like, I know the blog exactly to take out and we're not gonna talk about that, right, but yeah, it was. It was that blog, but I've never so no, I'm not doing anything extra. I feel like, you have a cage

as a burden it. You should be able to leave that door open and if the bird flies out, then he is not for you that to sit his ass right there perched on that little that little swing and be happy and if and if it flies then you're like Okay, we'll have my answer, you know what I mean. So that's awesome because I always felt like he could

do whatever she wanted in life. So I always tell Envy all the time, he's really fortunate than that dedication to your mom that probably, like you said, she was already going through the manship reading what you wrote, it was kind of like that helped you get through that even though she wasn't able to be there at that moment. But everything that you know, you wrote, that, what she taught you, and everything in let up to you being able to get through that situation with a clear mind.

That dedication was everything I am my mother's daughter, you know. I always comparing your dedication to God and was like, what's up with j Shout out to you guys. Make sure you pick up in real life, real love. You get to hear some of the most amazing, interesting stories from both points of view. And I do appreciate the fact that and he was so transparent in it because

there's things that I never looked at. I was like, I gotta to make fun of him for some things like what things like the dildo situation or even like you know, I know that like we joke about the fact that he broke out of the mental hospital. But that was reading it in the in the book was so different because when he tells us a story, he tells it in a joking. He makes light of it, right,

But when he made it it was not light. Yeah, you know, so like he'll talk about driving out, you know, my feet hanging out, his picture his feet hanging out. Because the way he tells the story, it doesn't sound as serious as when you read it in the book of what he was going through. He really did not want to live, and so he can tell it to us in a certain way. And I know that sometimes that's like a defense mechanism, you know, to be able to make a light of something. But what was having

to go through having to call the cops? You know? I saw him that night because I was or whatever. The next night, I was having a birthday party and he was DJ, and he showed up and the cops were looking for him, and I was like, because we had a bolo out for him. Yeah, he came to the job and then where he didn't come to work to the station. But then he shows up to DJ the party and I'm like, empty, what are you doing? There looking for you. But I'm like Empy, it's insane.

He was a little insane. He was a little saying but you know, that was a very It was a every dark place for him and saw us, you know, but that was the thing, you know, when I told him that it was over, just like previous times when I told him that it was over for other reasons that were far less significant or serious, you know, it would bring him to a place where he felt as though he didn't want to be here anymore. It was like, if I can't have you, if we can't live life together,

then I don't want to be here. And he meant that with every five from the things that visits me, I'm gonna be him tomorrow. He takes he takes you through what that feels like, like what got him to that that point, you know what I mean. So um, but we've healed from all of that. You're having orgasms. Yes, Live Service, thank you so much for coming out for the first time. It's been Listen. We've been wanting to do time coming. Yeah, but I think this listen literally

you got that all right. List Service here, Casey