Episode 300: Killing Mr. Perfect (DeVon Franklin)

Kimberly god When actually is a graduate of Florida A and M University, the School of Journalism and Graphic Communication, and she's also a veteran award winning broadcast news executive. She'll be overseeing Good Morning America, World News, tonight, Nightline eight of You and this week, which is huge, So congratulations.

She is joining ABC News in May. At CBS. Prior to this, she supervised four hundred domestic and foreign affiliates, the units, national News Deck and its bureaus and standards and ethics, among other duties. So congratulations to Kimberly god When. She is our woman on top of seek Women's Old Top. And yeah, Gloria, we are drinking and Friday, I got that rapper on it and everything. I felt bad drinking in front of you like this, but I'm gonna have

to do it you. It's all loved. But Divine Franklin is here and he has no expectations for you, guys, Just damn quite that he loves us to stop it and he loves you guys. It's just but he has no expectations. I just want to have. So let's talk about this because Divine you have a new book that's coming out made for it, So can you tell us a little bit about it. Yeah, it's called Live Free Exceeds Your Highest Expectations, And it's all about how to

set expectations. You know, in my experience, so often everyone is living by the expectations of others, their friends, their family, their upbringing, their partners, but not really living by their own expectations. And so as a result, they're not living free. When you and I don't live free, we under the control mostally specially monicely, by someone else or something else. And so this is all about the our learning to set expectations for yourself. You I can life created to

live and that's what the book's about. It's all about expectations. Are you by are they You're choosing in the area of personal expectations, cultural expectations, relationship expectations, and professional expectations. And this book gives you the tips and tools on how to set expectations in every area of your life. Navin, thank you for writing this book for me because I

definitely need it. Okay, you heard it comes out me for I think you had me and mind while you was writing this book, because I definitely can use this type of motivation and push to um realign myself into where I need to be. You know, we got a little preview of it, right because they did send us

something right before we actually are recording this. And one thing that I want to bring up is, you know how people always say, okay, it's not you as me in relationships when there when it's time to break up. But according to you, if you have a problem with your spouse, the problem isn't your spouse, The problem is you. So can you explain that? Yeah, because so so often my experience, this is the easiest thing to do. I'm in a relationship, I'm having a problem, and I do

this a point the finger. That's easy, so easy, and most of the times in my experience, it's not this, it's this, It's like, okay, is how I'm looking at it. Is this here? Because if this, if this is coming up of my relationship, is their work that I need to do on myself that I hadn't done in the past. I was in the past, I got the note I needed to work, I didn't want to do it. I broke up with that person, and now I'm in a situation when the new person work comes up again. Right?

So am I just gonna keep pointing the thing or say, okay, wait, maybe it's me. Maybe I got to do the work on me. But I gotta look at my perspective. Maybe I am actually contributing to the situation I really don't like, and maybe I got to communicate more. Maybe I have to set my expectations clearer. Uh so, yeah, I don't believe that it's them, it's actually us when there are relationship problems, because so many of the problems in my experience we can resolve. Now, it doesn't mean that that

person or that situation. Maybe it's incompatible. But before jumping to that place and say, oh, you know what, this person will treat me this way, well, do you treat yourself that way? You know this person doesn't do what I want? Well, have you ever asked them? Have you ever here's what I expect? Can you meet the expectation? So often we, especially in a relationship, we act like just because the person loves us that they know. It's not true. They don't know. Just because they love you

doesn't mean they can read our minds. So I wrote that in the book to give the reader really a clear view to say, wait, maybe I gotta look in the mirror. How to think about me and what problem I'm actually contributing to instead of just being so easy to point the finger, and here's the reality. We point and we get out of something. What we take, who we are, where we go, and whatever work we didn't do, it's gonna be there whenever we get to the news that it's always so why not do the hard work

of getting the work done in the situation? Even if you I'm not talking about anything abusive, but if you're a situation you don't like, the relationship isn't great, I would challenge you to do the work that you need to do on yourself, get that work done, and then you move on from a place A piece Why this relation was a great teacher I would have never dump deep into my trauma if I wasn't forced with particular individuals. So instead of leaving an anger and frustration, I leave

in a blessing. Thank you. Doesn't mean we're compatible, but I'm so glad that we had this moment because I would have never figured out who I was. Well, what if the issue is that, like you keep picking the same type of person and in a sense where it's like not working for you, because maybe maybe it's not really you, you know what I mean as far as when it comes to having to effects inner issues, but maybe you just fell like, all right, let me give

this person a chance. Now that's still like do you feel like that's still like an inner issue within someone where they keep picking somebody that may needs to be

like helped a little bit along the way. I just found this out, which was kind of shocking to me in that, you know, I'm the middle child of three boys, and my father was an alcoholic and he ended up passing away when I was nine years old, when he was thirty six, And I recently found out that a lot of children of alcoholics, adult children of alcoholics, one of the defining traits is finding people that you can save because you couldn't save your your your your your parents.

You you took that in and now you find now you find projects people that save right. So so in the question, it makes me think of that because so often, if there's that pattern that's repeating itself, it maybe because you got to go back and look at your upbringing, look at what was the trauma that you may have experienced,

and how come you're seeing these patterns. Maybe there's some unresolved issues or maybe there's a revelation about your upbringing that you got to come into alignment and agreement with that then will help you break the cycle, you know. And then also look at what if I'm finding the same person and that person is someone exactly want, then I have asked the questions and I who I want be? Am?

I am I actually who I want to be? Because maybe I'm attracting those that are being attracted to my presentation. But I was gonna say, that's interesting because we're always told to have expectations, right, aren't we always told to be like, Okay, you gotta make sure that people are at a certain level. You gotta have these expectations and people should live up to that. And we also have

a lot of expectations placed on us. And I know you discussed that in the book, because it just feels like people will always tell you, Okay, well you know you gotta stop settling. Well, well, you know it's it's it's settled by whose definition? You know. Too often, especially when the competing everybody got an opinion, got something they don't know nothing about. What's right for you? Is what's right for you? And and just because someone especially when

it comes to day, there's so much pressure. You know, you gotta get in this type of relationship, and you gotta do that, and then now you're now you gotta get married. And then once you're married, now you gotta have kids. And if you don't do what's expected at every turn, there's a temptation to internalize that, what's wrong with me? Then I get in a relationship, what's wrong with me? They haven't asked to marry. What's wrong with me? I don't don't have kids yet? Then you get kids,

what's wrong with me? I don't have the right cred you get You see how crazy it is because we keep living for everyone else's expectations. That's what I wrote this book. It's all about living for it. You gotta set expectations for yourself. You decide who am I, how do I want to live, where do I want to go? And guess what. I'm gonna take control over my life because I am tired of living for everybody else and not live for myself. And there's a difference. This is

really important. I don't ask people to be selfish. I ask people to self prioritize. And there's a big difference when you and are selfish and we want what we want and we don't care how we get it and who we hurt along the way. What myself prioritized it means I take care of my well being before I can help enhance your well being. Now, Divine, you know this is lip service. And now we've got to take it to the bedroom as we're having these conversations about

expectations and about prioritizing yourself. So how does that translate into the bedroom with a partner. Look, don't get the scratching now you hell, hello, I wasn't scratching. This is this is great, This is so important. So a couple of we talk about setting expectations. It's comes down to two questions. One is a realistic or unrealistic. How do you know is it in or control to do? If it's control, I argue that realistic for you to expect Number two is it's spoken or unspoken. If you have

an uncommunicated request or expectation, it's an unset expectation. So in order to set expectations in the bedroom, you gotta look at both of those things. What's in your control and what is what needs to be communicated. In my experience, too often you come to the bedroom and you one try to control what's it what's not in your control, which is how the other person performs. Two an expectation of what they're supposed to do that you never even communicated. Hey,

you know, let's talk about this. Here's what I like, Here's what I don't like. What do you like? What don't you like? Too often we just you just get in the room and expect Oh, magic just happens, right, and they don't reduce the magic. That wasn't good. So no, if you really want your sex life to go to the next level, you gotta set expectations. You know, I say, okay, well, what's in my control? And maybe when you want someone to please you or us, it's like, okay, well, what

are the things that I like to begin with? And how do I start to communicate those things instead of just expecting that somebody who does not even know me as well as I know me is gonna know how to please me. And then here's the other thing. When we talk about living free, this is where the issue of sex, especially when you're single, and and this is

where sex completely imprisoned so many people. How because when I, when we talk about living free, living free means I am not under the mental, physical, or emotional control of anyone or anything. So now let's apply that to sex. You you in them or wherever you choose to do it. And it's mind blowing, right. But the person they don't know you, but they have spent thousands of hours perfecting their ability to blow a one or man's mind in

the bedroom. Right, So now they got you. So they may not even be right for you, but it felt so good, right, it sounds amazing mind blowing. Right. You don't live free because you need it, you know. And then what happens is that is the sex begins to then cloud the judgment, in cloud the perspective. And then let's do the opposite, right, the opposite is what if you're in a situation and it's not meeting your expectation and it's less than what you want, it's less than one.

You know, it's not blowing your mind, you know, not even uh, it's stimulating you anyway, because maybe there's a comparison to what was before, having an expectation that somebody that you're sleeping with now is supposed to perform like someone you slept with them it m hm, And that expectation could be that expectation could actually be destroyed a good thing, Davion, You've said so much, just now hold them. We gotta gotta some of these things. Can you give

me going that slow down? Have you ever have you ever had a conversation about things like before the first time you have sex, things you don't like and you know, like, please go to that. I haven't, so what are those things? G One thing that I don't particularly care for is when receiving oral being fingered at the same time, like I don't really need your fingers, you know, your mouth

is just good enough. So um, if in fact that comes up in conversation, that's something that I'll definitely will let how does that come up in conversation because I just look at it like this, if we're going to dinner and we're like jilling and we're like vibing, and it's just like, you know, just to let you know, ever had that yet? But if you do eat my pussy, please don't check your motherfuck finger off. One of those type.

I'm one of those type of women that I will ask a man if he if he does it, like you, are you eating pussy or no? Because a lot of men say they don't do it. So if they do, if the buffalo wings you like, you ain't gonna put that finger in me? I don't know. Yeah, So that's how it will come up because I would really ask a man if I plan on having sex with him, Um, are you a pussy eater? Is this is something that you enjoy? Is this something that you like to do?

Because and then when I enjoy and once he says yes, yeah, like okay, by the way, when you're don't put that finger there. So I'm not. But y'all know, I'm very blunt and open, so I think more so in the moment I would do it, and I would be like no, like I would stop you. I wouldn't just be like,

let's talk about this. I'm more of a like in the moment kind of person that's like no, no, no no, Like I don't like that, Like if a guy, if I tried to stick my finger up a guy, if you know what I mean, if you tried to, I wouldn't talk about it beforehand because I feel like that's not so sexy, you know what I mean, Like that's not in the moment thing. And I'm like more of an in the moment type of person. So I feel like if we're discussing everything, like listen, when we do

have our first kids, don't da da dada. I don't feel like I want to give an instruction guy, because I feel like and not to say that that's what you were doing, because obviously you were saying what you like. But in my mind, when I say it or lay it out to me, it would be like an instruction guy, And I'd rather be like, oh, I don't like when he did that, and kind of like either explain to

him at that time or cut him off. But I can't me personally, I can't see myself being like, all right, before we have sex, don't put here, don't do this, don't do that, and I like this, and don't use loud because I'm wed enough, like I don't you know what I mean? Like I don't. I wouldn't understand how to do that personally. But you're already identifying what's important

to you what isn't. So you're organizing exploration. You have expectation of exploration where you just want to initially explore and then you can sort off the finer points. You know, there's nothing wrong with that. The expectation is like, hey, I like to explore. If this goes down, let's just see where it goes and we can talk about it after you it's clear. Okay, great, bet. Now if there's certain things you know, like the deal breakers, and he say, hey,

just goes down, we are going to future. So I need to let you know if it's that important to you. Okay, cool. You know, it really comes down to what works for you. You stick that finger up there, You're done. Now you

come in. You should communicate that. And then also what expectations do you have of your partner, Like do you have things that you're like, he better make sure that I blah blah blah you know, because think about it sometimes, as we all know, the first time you're with somebody, it might not live up to what you want, but it also is a period of time where you have to figure each other out and be able to, Like you said, after you explore talking sometimes like Tobama saying

those expectations are so how you wanted to be mind blowing, and then it's not, and maybe you just give up instead of saying, let's try to you know a few times. Not compatibility, because maybe that's where I mess up on things because I look at it like, all right, let's see what's gonna happen, and if it works out, then

this is meant to be. And if it's not, then maybe it's just not because we're not compatible, maybe our parts don't fit right, or because you know, like some people could be like, oh my god, this sex us so crazy, and God forbid. You might know that same guy or a woman that had sex with them. You're like it was like it wasn't terrible to me, you know what I mean? So I just feel like some

people are compatible and some are not. So I feel like even if you break down the rules, it's like it's not gonna work because that's just not your fit, you know what I mean, And that's how I usually move and live and maybe that's why I'm not married in a relations But honestly, in that that it's like, yeah, okay,

you could live that way. Maybe it's like gambling like roulette, but maybe but maybe because there isn't enough communication about what is expected and that it's just like you get to the point where you get frustrated because you're like, yo, you need to know if you know about not everybody knows you know. And then also not only people can be teachable, but also sometimes it takes time to say, oh, got it, this is how this is and this is

how the rhythm goes. And then also if it's somebody you really care and love, as you all growing in love, it becomes a greater capacity to give them the opportunity to learn how to please you, and then also for you to be willing to learn how to place Then you just in this area you can't communicate enough, and when it comes, if everything else is going really well and the sex isn't quite there, you know, maybe that's the area where you gotta set the expectations most And

also give the most prete for growth and to learn because you can listen, you have known you for as long as you've been on this earth, right, it maybe maybe the only couple of months, maybe a year, right, So it's like you know, and again it's like, yeah, sure somebody can hit the mark immediately sexually, but then you gotta look at like what else is going on and how happy are you in other areas? You know, you gotta find the balance to right, It's like, all right,

I'm happy in this area. The sex still needs work. All right, I'm gonna do the work on the sex because I want to be with this person. I see a future. You know what, I don't see a future, So all I want is this sex. All right, Well my expectation. If the sex ain't good, I'm about you gotta then determine how you see this person, what you really want from the situation, to then know how to

navigate the right expectations. Now, I want to ask you this divine about something at the game put on social media, and I want to get your thoughts. Okay, he said, everybody different, but it just ain't in me to let my woman share the worry of paying for anything I

feel good carrying that load. And I'm not changing. If you're lucky enough to land an independent woman who works her ass off and still come some to cut clean, take care of kids, and go crazy sexually, let her stack what she makes in case y'all need it one day and still handle everything as a man. Why she got to pay half the rent? She had given you half the pussy And then he said, m wire's killed me. Since the beginning of time, real men have always taken

care of shelter, providing and protecting. And if you ain't got it, go get it. Because that is some high expectations to place on a man, that he's got to take care of everything, even as you stack your own money as a woman. So what are your thoughts about something like that? You know again, I think you gotta live free. You can't, as even as a man, be under mental, emotional or physical control of the humanity or

the idea. And and too often you know that works for a man and a woman in their relationship, and that works for them. I think it's dangerous when you to take ideas and apply it across the board, because you know there are some women that you know are saying Hey, look, I make a certain amount of money and I actually want to contribute, you know, like that actually briefs joy, you know, and and I don't want to who just wants to do everything because then what happens.

Come on, let's just be honest about us as men. Not every man is doing their work. So when a man pays, there's an expectation with what comes with that payment. Control. Yeah, I'm ringing Mario's bell because I've been there, scation, because the man was taking care of everything and he held it over my head and where he got and and at this point in my life, I am not in

that situation any longer. It feels so much better to be able to still maintain my same lifestyle and provide these things for myself without a man, you know, like I'll take gifts and I'll take help, but the fact that I can do these things on my only, it just feels so much better to know a doct it on my own. So absolutely. And also I think there's a there's a thing you know that this is why I wrote my last book, Truth about Men. And also when I'm writing this book is that but oh, thank you,

thank you. I had three copies and two of them are missing, which means people, well, I love it, I love it he as men. To me, part of where we are right now is not falling into the traps in the tropes of what it needs to be a man and and defining a lot of that with money and dominance. You know, No, to me, manhood is communication, care, consideration, of course, lead, but leadership through about what works for you. You You know, if you're in a situation where that's

what the woman wants. But let's say, as the man, you are not able to do that, not because you have the passage, You're just not there on your journey. So then you then try to live up to that expectation and you feel less than I don't think that's very healthy at all, you know, I mean at all. I mean when Megan and I got married, you know, she way, she made way more money than me at time.

You know, now we've been married nine years, and you know it's about even if not me making more Like if her expectation was, man, I gotta marry a dude who's making as much as me, we would be married. Sorry, I have capacity to make that amount of money. It just takes time. You know, and so I understand you

know where my brother is coming from. I would just challenge any person, any man, any woman, it's not fall into these these different uh roles without identifying if they If that's really what you want to do, don't just go into it because what society wants or you saw some post on Instagram got a lot of trash. That's

the worst reasons to say that. But because then that makes me think of guys like Derek Jackson or whatever that actually come out and say like they like they have these certain values and people follow behind them thinking like, Okay, well this man is married, he's been in a relationship for eight years, that's relationship goals. You know. So what you even saying that, like just because it's on the internet or whatever the case, don't you shouldn't necessarily follow it.

But this is what you you're bringing up a really great point. And I just I want to say this the whole thing with Derrick Jackson. You know, I don't know the brother. I didn't even get into the new show watching all the videos, but of course I understand what happens right here. Here's here's one thing, one observation that I took away as a man who's in the public eye, who obviously has written books and has a lot to say about relations my affect to what men

women should and shouldn't do. I looked at the situation and said, first of all, we as men have to do everything we can and are to make ourselves uncomfortable to tell the truth. And what I mean by the truth is that it's very easy for me as a man to come on show like this and advise and give great wisdom. That's easy. The truth of the matter is every man is an imperfect messenger because I'm still a man, and so yes, I have ideas and thoughts

and I live by those as best I can. But I also understand the internal struggle of being a man, and it's not easy. And so when I saw with that Derrick Jackson thing, Mike was like, whoa unto any man that just takes a position about this is what women should do without any understanding of saying, yeah, I think that this is what women should do. This what men should do. But like, I'll be honest, world, can

I figured this day out? We are now, we are human, We all human, and none of us have this figured out perfectly. We're all learning, We're on a journey, and so it just it just was a word of caution, even to me to say, I'm not trying to put myself in a position where I know everything. I don't. You know, I want this book, I say, hey, man, I had to. There was a part of me, uh, growing up what people called me Mr Perfect because I did everything right. And I of course I said, oh

this is great. I'm missed a Perfect. As I got older, I was like, oh, I had the perfect. I work on killing Mr Perfect because it's just not true. It's a facade, it's a persona, it's not reality. And so again I don't know the brother. I don't I'm not hating on that brother or any other brother. But as as men, we have to be cautious the tone in which we give advice to win them. And we had every man knows the struggle. It is hard, it's difficult. And so if I stand up on this platform and say, oh,

you know, that's why I wrote truth about men. Yo, we got this dog in us, it's in us, it's in me. Right, I got master that. I work on mastering it every day. I gotta do my work I can't come out here and say, oh, I've got it mastered, everything's great. No, I don't. I work on it. I deal with it. It ain't easy some days or easy than others. But to not try to get on a pedestal for a profit and act like we got it all when we know we don't. That was my takeaway

from that situation. And any brother that I can talk to who's giving advice, I try to share with, like, yo, nothing wrong with the advice, but take the edge off of you know it all. Take the edge off of that and offer it with some humility, with some grace and saying, hey, I'm still working through this too, right.

What were some expectations on you that you feel were unrealistic because you had them coming from everywhere, like from the church, from people who are paying attention to your marriage, from the community, social media. What about you, like, what are some things you're like, Okay, this is impossible, And what did you have to change about yourself and your

own expectations? Yeah, you know, I mean, I I was raising the church, you know, been Christian all my life, and so you know, just the idea of my reason my initial goal growing up was I want to go to Hollywood. I want to become, you know, a producer. And so coming from a religious background, that was from you like, you can't Hollywood and Solomon Gomorra, it's the devil's playground. You're gonna lose your faith, You're gonna have

to compromise. And so that was one of the first expectations that I had to say, guess what, y'all I live with in my heart. Hey, if you don't agree, pray for me, because I gotta go, you know. And I went, came to the entertainment business, you know, became successful, worked at Sony Pictures for ten years, and now we're in my own production company. So I had succeeded in that way. But one of the other expectations is this, yes,

the journey right. One of the other expectations was with success if you're not careful, comes a chat of like, oh, finding too much of my identity in the success and the expectation that if I'm not producing a hit movie or got a successful book or you know, on television, then I'm not making it. What's wrong with you, divine man? Dude? What's with you? Man? You just did this thing on social media? And like that, what's wrong with you? Like internalizing?

So the expectation is like, oh, I have to be this all the time. No, I had to learn one thing I should expect it myself is to be who I am. I really keep working on who I am. And when I say, well, on who I am, like work on you know, times when I'm angry and frustrated and you know, deal with my issues and being an adult child of alcoholic and deal with my perfectionism issues. The more I do that, the more it has allowed me to resist the temptation to live up anybody else's expectation,

you know. And so it's been a process because we all listen, I'm I'm. I don't know if you'all have this that I like to be like, because you know, I like people's approval. I liked it um but at times I liked it too much. I liked it so much that I keep my value in it. And when they like me, I feel fantastic. But when they don't, I feel devastated. And that was an expectation that I had to remove of like I can't live for anybody else. I can't live for my wife. I love her, I

can't live for her. At the end of the day, I only life that I'm responsible to live is the life that I have been given, and I have to make sure at every turn that I'm living based upon the expectations that I choose. Others can have expectations of me, and if I choose those expectations, great. It doesn't mean that someone having an expectation of me is wrong. It just means if I do it without them, without me and thinking about it. My religious you know, from the church.

You know I have gotten to the place where I love the Lord. I'm completely you know, a follower of Christ. Have no problem with that. But I don't do anything to live up to someone's religious expectation of who I should be and what I should do. I don't do it. They say that, and I'm about to switch gears a little bit, and you know I was. You see it in my face, So dude. They say that people that's in the church sometimes to be a little bit more

freaking than the regular people. Now have you come across that where it's been like women in the church and stuff like that, I kind of throw them pennies at you, even though you're married, or even maybe before you get what I'm saying that you like hold on because we see a lot of preachers and pastors that get caught up and caught out there. So did you ever have to be like I know I talked about relationships and all that, but like find yourself since I'm not here,

and find yourself in God, not in me? Right, right? I have not had that experience so much being married. Um, you know, but you know, prior to marriage and going to your question about you know uh by you know our women or men in the church, you know he and not one of the reasons why that idea persist. And there is truth. There's truth in every stereotype and and usually truth in every rumor. Uh is that suppression? Right?

So what happens in in religious communities? You know there's no healthy outlet to do what you won't do on this podcast you talk more things in sex, but you talk about sex, right, That's like it's like an outlet to talk about sex and talk about every aspect of it and in a non turtamental manner where where they are space, there's a safe space to talk about sex. Uh. The church is not to say it's the most unsafe

space to talk about sex. Now, God made us all sexual, right, and and in in a church community, most of the time people are being taught to repress an aspect of their creation, and so in order to fit in and everyone's expectation, you go along with the presentation, I'm not gonna talk about it. Hey, it doesn't exist. Oh, I give God the glory. You know, everything's good. God is good all the time. I'm good. Why are you doing? You?

You and the your horny has ever nobody? No, no, no, no, no no no no no, don't don't know you sposed be holy over horning? Okay. The reality is, without an outlet to talk about these feelings doesn't mean you have to act on the feeling. Just talking about it, it's cathartic enough to be able to deal with it in a healthy way. Because the church seems to repress, those

feelings get suppressed. And so when someone has been suppressing those sexual feelings and they get into an environment where they can let it out, a lot of times it goes to the extreme. You know, because again going back to what we talked about earlier, no one perfect person I believe to walk this earth was Jesus Christ himself.

None of us are perfect. And so if I try to present, even as a minister, even as a person in the public, that hey, I've got it all together and no, no, no, I work on it, right, but I know who God created, and I got to do my work so I can be the best of the creation because if I don't do my work, this other

thing and me is gonna gonna come out. And so yes, you're yes, there is some truth to that idea that you know, when you have repression, especially in religious communities, that that can come out and what we call man being real freaky certain situations because there has never been a healthy outlet, like a lip service, to talk about these things and to know how to deal with them. You can God create ahead too, so you can't act

like it. There's everything too, and that's how we got here. Okay, but you know you you have that in the book. Anything that you suppress, you in power, right, and so it's kind of it's kind of like a damn bursting literally literally, and that's why work. Now. I want that damn you know what I mean? Like I want people unless Megan's okay, you're talking about the damn of spression. What is the difference between stage expectations and wow, where's

your mind expect expectations, expectations and standards. What's the difference? So so so? An expectation is a strong belief that something will happen in the future. To me, standard is a is a commitment to how you want to live your life. Here is the danger when these two get mixed. Here's what I mean by that. I have certain ways that I have committed to living my life, certain disciplines, certain way I like to work out, what I like to eat. Those are how I like to work Those

are my personal standards. It's dangerous when I treat my personal standard as an expectation for everybody else should operate, and then I judge them when they don't meet my standard the way that I do. It's okay for me to have standards and this because this works for me. But I talk about this in the book. Be careful when you project your standards onto others and then you judge them or vilify them because they don't meet them the same way. I don't want anybody else to make

their standard. My standard is the same way. We should resist the temptation and do the same. So that's the real difference and expectation is a belief. It's a hope. It's an idea of like, Okay, here's what's within my control that I'm hoping for, that I'm working towards. That I am working towards right, And if I want to find out if somebody else will agree to that expectation, I have to communicate that to them. So let's say I have a standard. Let's go back to what the

game posted. Let's say, as a woman, you have a standard. I want every and I go out wait to pay for me. Okay, that could be your standard? How you set that expectation through communication? Hey, before we're on the date, here's my expectation. Do you agree to that? Or no, oh you don't agree that, Okay, no problem. I don't want to take guys that don't pay or that's what I have. Here's my standard. I don't let any guy pay for me, period. Are you cool with that expectation?

Because I don't want to get to dinner and then you come in there and you secretly pay the bill because I'm gonna leave because I don't like that stuff. Now that sounds crazy. I've never I'm gonna tell you why. I'm gonna tell you why. I think it sounds crazy because I'm thinking on the man's side, right, So say he already knows he's gonna pay or whatever the case. So he calls you up like, hey, you know today we're gonna ask t K right, We're going in a

nice day. I'm gonna pick you up. Everything's gonna be great. You can order the lobster and get the shrimp skin, whatever you want to get. Lamb says, do what you wanna do. But at the end of the night, you're gonna suck this. Dick likes because I look at it like this, and I'm gonna tell you why. I'm gonna tell you why because as now, it might be one man that I go out, say it's two guys, right, and we do the same date, same thing, we're vibing with one of them. I might just want to feel

like that. At the end of the night, it might be the other guy that I feel like I don't feel the connection there. So even if we have that conversation, to me personally, I'm a vide person. I'm a you know, or a person like when we get around each other, how are we laughing? Do we feel that? So just you chemistry, just you telling me or we talking, and even though we might be like, Okay, I get what you're saying, and I get what I'm saying, but when we get in at the table, it's awkward. And now

we're not talking. So now you think I'm gonna suck your dick just because you told me at the beginning of this conversation after dinner. This is what you're used to, you know, And you can also always change your mind, and you can again because if not, that's rape and I'm gonna call the police. You But this is so good. This is so good again. We're talking about expectations and setting our expectations and and getting the power back right when you when you when you talk about nothing wrong

with it. Everyone can live their life. What I would say is, has that way of operating producing the result you like, as far as working on based on like how my failings are working for me, only living in the vibe. I want to get a vibe. I don't want to over communicate. I just want to feel it out. If it has wonderful, but if it hasn't, maybe it's like,

all right, are there some adjustments? I can make that I can communicate a little more clearly to just create a little bit more structure around what I want, because I vibed out a lot in the vibe without the communication. Okay, you know, my best cancel, there's no more vibe bag because there's these expectations, you know, to come up, and we didn't actually set a lay foundation of communication. When things start to get a little weird, I want to rely on the vibe. But the vibe has no structure,

you know, and so our foundation has no structure. So when things get tough, we don't have the foundation to to dit to to get to talk about it. So again I understand the act. The idea that I'm presenting sounds completely before and I get it, and of course i'm painting in the most extreme example, but communicating what

you want and being clear about it. I'm a firm believer in that, even if it's uncomfortable, because you know, what's more incomfortable investing time of your heart and your body and somebody that you thought was gonna give you something you may have wanted and then you realize didn't. Mm hmmm. Starting for Lobster, I mean I bought my whole list. But I do feel like sometimes when you're talking to somebody and you're just meeting them in the beginning, and we say this all the time, it's like you

meet a representative. So sometimes a person, Yeah, they'll paint out a picture of somebody that they claim they are or they seem like they are. Even their expectations like oh, I want this and this is down in the thirty You may feel like you're on the same page, but once you really get to sit down, it's like, I thought you said this is you know, this is what you want it, and it's like not that at all,

you know. But but what the beauty of that is when we set expectations and we communicate them, we then can have accountability. That's true, somebody accountable said you weren't, then why are you doing this this that I like, I said that you did, I got the messages here it.

We want to say, okay, divine, but what's your tough couples And I've heard people talk about this a lot, where they're the amount of times that they have sex doesn't match up, Like sometimes one person wants to have sex three times a week, the other person is like, I'm good every other week, So what do you say? And that, like, how do you compromise? I'm in like every other week once. Now we gotta get a divorced. I'm sorry you didn't tell me that in the first day.

I would tell couples, especially when it comes to sex and you are getting married first and foremost, one, you need to set expectations. But two, I would take every expectation off because here's what happens. And I talked about this in the book. When we're single, the issue of sex is not nearly a problem because there's there's less expectations. You don't even know this person, You're not where it's gonna go. No problem, right given sex, no problem. It is what it is. It see me, Shane's part of

the process or whatever. When you get married, it's totally get involved in because now is the expectation. What does that mean? Okay, wait, now you're my husband, you're my wife. Oh I've been thinking about this my whole life. Now it's here. What does it mean? What am I supposed to do? And as a result, sex becomes much more

complicated because there's so many more expectations to play. So I would really encourage a couple, Hey, go easy on each other, take the expectation off, and work to communicate and find the compromise. Everyone has a different sex drive, you know, and unless you happen to marry the person with the perfect sex drive, there's always going to be a compromise, you know. So it's like, all right, you know, he may want to do it twice a week and

she's like I needed every day. Okay, great, let's just try to find the happy meaning we do it a couple of times a week. Okay, Right, you gotta just find the happy medium and compromise because if you don't do what, you're gonna drive each other crazy. And uh and also mind are is when, especially in marriage, if the sex isn't happening at the frequency that you want.

A lot of it has to do with everything is half but outside the bedroom, you know, if there's some issues, resentments, things that didn't get discussed, the quality of your marriage usually is revealed and what does or doesn't happen in the bedroom. So if you're good at compromising, good at communication, then you can bring that into the bedroom and you

can find the right communication. But if outside you feel like you know one spouse feels like they're giving more than the other, and then in the bedroom that spouse that keeps receiving and never giving, wants to keep receiving. One who's given say no, I don't know, I don't feel like doing that. I ain't in the move for that. No, no, no. When when you give me some equity out there, I

think it's equition here. So I just to go easy and take the expectation off the bedroom and build it together so you can find what works for both of you. What about cheating in a relationship, Like, say you're in a committed relationship and somebody steps out, do you feel like that should be a deal breaker because maybe y'all spoke about things or whatever and they knew how you

it's about that or whatever the case is. Or do you think that maybe that person made a mistake and it is that you can give them a chance, You know what I mean? Like, what what do you feel about that? You know? My feeling is that in any situation where trust has been breached, first and foremost, there's no rule book. Every person in every relationship has to do what works best for them. What I would say is,

if trust has been breached. You gotta get to the root of where is the cheating come from and why? And my experience, people sometimes stay in a relationship with us has been violated, not because it's what they want, because they feel expected to do it. And so for me personally, UM, I don't know what I would do, you know, if megan cheating on me, I don't know. I that's not even put that out there. That's not question like how do you deal with you? Right? Got

to decide, you know, what works best for them. But you gotta get to the root of it. You know. I don't believe that it's it's unsalvageable if somebody cheats, you know, but it's a personal decision. You got to really do the work to say, Okay, well why did that happen, where did it come from? And can I get over it? If you're the person that was cheated on, and if you did the cheating, the one thing I would say is you don't get to set the terms for the for kiding. I feel like the cheating always

wanted trying to set the terms. You like, I don't want to talk about this anymore. You gotta get over it. But let me after this as a man, because I feel like this right. I feel like as women, we always want to know all the details, like what happened? This is and that we want to talk to the other one, like all that stuff. Would you want to know all the details? You think it's better to not have those moments in your head forever. Here's what I would say. I would say that, did you look like

you just got cheated on? I don't like space mentally face like, no, ain't no cheap that going on over here on either. But But the reason why I pause and really got pensive is because this is an issue so many people deal with. You know and and and how much facts? How many of the facts do you need to know? And what don't you need to know? You know? Because what happens is what you don't know can drive you crazy. M h. But if you know, you go so so. I think that some details are important.

Detail you know? Um, But I would I would resist temptation ask so many things that then you're just it drives you crazy, asking enough so you can get a clear picture of why it happened. But I would exist the temptation that has so much that you could never repair it, because you're you're replaying all the details in your head, right. And I also felt like, and I know this might sounds sick as fuck, but I also felt like that's what makes the person believe that they

can get away with those things. Like if they tell you, like, you know what, we had sex without a condom and you ultimately forgive them and they do it again, that was like, well, you know, last time. I feel like, I know I made a mistake, but you forgave me last time. Like literally, I was in a relationship and the guy said to me, we broke up obviously, but he said to me like, well, in the beginning, like

you dealt with this. So when it was when we started transitioning into like a real serious relationship, I didn't think that it was that serious of a deal because I felt like, you got over it, you know the vibes girl, the vibes came back, Well that that wasn't a vibe situation. That was my friend. He was a friend that turned into somebody. I said, the dating eventually and that was a mistake too. But like he would say that, he would be like, well, you dealt with

it before, so what what doesn't matter now? And it's like, because I grew up and it's been mad years and we're tighter now, everything is different, and I I communicated with him, but he still used it as an excuse. Right. But because early in the in the dynamic, sounds like expectation was said that maybe you know it was was incorrect, you know, the expectation of like, oh, she'll ride with me through whatever. That's not what you were actually saying.

It's like, no, I'm gonna give you a moment of grace, but don't mistake my kindness for weakness, right, I know, to die, I would tell you I am not a rider. Die. Okay, you could die if you decide to let somebody else ride on you, if you know, let me out. I like to ride, but I don't want to die, baby, Okay, she wrote you. Now it's not for you to die. All right, Well, look, Divine has to go. But I do appreciate the fact that you took good time. I

have to talk with us, and we're so excited. I got a chance to read part of the book already, so I'm already read thinking some of the ways that I act in life. And I've also been paying attention to your singles conversations that you've been having on Instagram as well. So that's what I need to tune into. So put me on because I wasn't tell me about the singles conversations, so other people like me can join and you have a single. I mean I've been doing

singles zooms, zooms for singles and it's been amazing. I mean, people from all over the world, all races, all ages, you know, coming into the zoom. We've spend a little bit more than hour. It's amazing because you know, singleness is a hard walk. I remember how difficult it was before I got married, and you always feel there's a community around singles. You know, there's a community around relationships

and marriage, but not communities around singles. So you know, we're going to do to help promote free but also to really encourage singles in their walk, give them information, give them tips and tools and most encouragement. You know it's gonna be all right, You're gonna make it through.

And uh, it's been amazing. So we've been doing the very week leading up to the bull and he seen during this pandemic because it's been tough, even tougher being for people who are single during the gonna pull out, right, yeah, we pull it out. I think I'm almost over being single. It's fun, but I'm bored now. I worked too much. I'm married to my job. I like money. So if somebody could fit into the end between, then that schools. But otherwise, yeah, I don't have no time. Mama tid Well.

Divine as always be really appreciate. People always are like, Divine's gonna do lip service. I'm like, yes, yeah, it's not a problem. He doesn't mind discussing anything. And he was just talking about getting heads. So we'll make sure we make that the headline the headline. But you know, listen, people have these expectations of Divine that he won't do lift service, and look at him breaking that. Hey, that's it. You live in free, You live in free, free, free drinking.

Helly on y'all for having me appreciate. Thank you so much for coming. Let's service