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You're listening to and This is why I love.
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Hi everyone and welcome to the and This is why I Love Comics podcast. We are so excited to have you here. I'm your host #1 Andy, and there will be other hosts as well that we'll introduce later. We are so excited to try this first episode of and This is why I love.
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Comics I clearly. I love comics and I wanna talk about them and I wanna talk about them with my friends and this podcast.
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Is an excuse for me to talk about a hobby I've had since I was 8 years old. I remember laying down and reading a comic book. It probably was a DC comic. I'll admit my my love for DC outshines my love for Marvel, but not by much. I still like a lot of Marvel.
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But that's we can talk about that later. You can argue with me later about it just hit 50 years old. So I've been doing this for a little bit now and I've been a nice size collection. Not too bad and I just want to talk about comics.
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I enjoy talking about comics with my friends, and why not invite them on and learn a little about what they love and about what I love, and we'll go over some issues I don't know. I have a lot of plans, so we'll see where this direction goes. It's not just about me. We will try this out my first.
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Guest is a longtime friend that I met in high school.
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My first co-host, I'm going to call him a co-host because I hope he does a lot of these shows with me, but it's my friend Mike, and I promise he'll show up shortly and he's got a number of stories. I'm sure he'll tell over these these podcasts episodes and it'll be a lot of fun, at least for me anyway. And hopefully for you too.
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A little bit about me. Let's see my favorite characters, Doctor Fate, Hawkman, Nightwing. I'm a big Superman fan, big Justice League fan. The original. I'm also a big legion of superheroes fan so I loved Legion superheroes. It's probably my favorite group. I love almost every an iteration of it.
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Even the newest Brian Michael Bendis stuff, there was parts I loved parts I didn't like too, and we can talk about that. Maybe there'll be a legion episode, but yeah, big legion of Superheroes fan.
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What I want to do with this podcast is start out, at least I want to do a discussion, perhaps some older series that people aren't talking about on other podcasts. Event series, something like that. So we're going to open up the first two episodes, so this episode and the next episode, we're going to talk about DC's. I think it's 1988.
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Jim Starlin, Mike Minola cosmic odyssey. So let me introduce my co-host and then we'll start talking eventually about the issues.
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And welcome back to and This is why I love comics. As I said earlier, we were going to do a conversation about a comic that I picked out. I'm not sure why I picked this out. Do you know why I picked this out, Mike?
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Mike, you're just having flashbacks to acid days when you're tripping out.
00:03:39 Speaker 1
You're right, right. Right. Exactly. Uh, with me now is my friend Mike. As I promised Mike. How do we know each other?
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Man, let me count.
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The ways. Yeah, it goes back quite a ways now.
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Right.
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I think we've.
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Known each other more than we've not.
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Known each other.
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Yeah, that's that's definitely true. We're we're, you know, of the older generation, so.
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See, I don't know how else to explain that. Uh.
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Yeah, we're, you know, acquainted with the invention of dust.
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Right. Yes, I think you, you invented it.
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Right.
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Yeah. If you look at any of my collections, they all seem to be collecting.
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Yeah. Mike and I have been friends since high school. As I said in my intro, which Mike hasn't heard, but you know, I've been collecting since probably eighth. Well, since I was eight or nine. I have a picture of me on the carpet at my parents house reading the comics. When did you start, Mike?
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Yeah, there's a difference between collecting and just acquiring.
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I had a lot of hand me down comics, you know, just random one off issues here or there. Nothing that was like collecting was like I had a stack of comics, but it wasn't like aggressively going after it. The first one. And this is very telling of what tastes I are lack of taste I have, but it was. I officially started with the.
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Godzilla from the Marvel run.
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OK.
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And it was.
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The herb trippy, and I think it was Doug Mullins. As a writer, mispronouncing his last name. But that's how I've always had it and always will have it, gosh darn it. But yeah, those were, you know, that's the first one that I I went picked up mid series. I think I like picked it up from like issue 8 or something like that. It.
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Only had like 24.
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She was in the full run, but then I found what was called the direct market, where there was like comic shops. Back issues was like, what the heck is the back issue? I thought they were just gone forever.
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If you missed it, you missed it. Go back and get it here. So then.
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I started collecting the back issues.
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I think oh, crap, didn't that come out? It must have been maybe late 70s, early 80s, when the Godzilla madness was about.
00:05:45 Speaker 1
Yeah, it was definitely late 70s because I picked up probably two issues of that run. I wasn't collecting that at all. I just. I've always loved Godzilla. I guess maybe that was.
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The start of.
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It but.
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Something that could give us this?
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Information, right? Well, I don't wanna, you know, just Google it. Wait, I'm already doing it. Let's see. Now. Let's let's sound factual. And yeah, and knowledge.
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I'm a little super educated.
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I think right now I only have like 1 issue of Godzilla. I used to have an earlier one, but of course I got rid of.
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Yeah, but I.
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Love the run 1977 for phones.
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OK.
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But yeah, I.
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Love the run because they decided that somehow Godzilla.
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Needed to be infused into.
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The Marvel Universe and I'm kind of wondering just kind of one of those like quizzical moments of looking back at.
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It it was.
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Which one needed which one? Or was it a mutual back scratching? You know, did Godzilla need the Marvel Universe like they needed to have the heroes from the Marvel Comics appear in order to bolster sales? Or was it the other way around where Godzilla was so popular at that time with all?
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The movies coming.
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Into the US.
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That they thought well.
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This would be a great gateway into the Marvel Universe that you could like. I love Godzilla, who's crazy? Costume characters.
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And then that would lead.
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You to being, you know the, you know, into the by and other Marvel Comics.
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Yeah, I'm not sure who benefited more. Probably got Silla for the Americans at least. I don't know.
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Yeah, yeah, but I can't imagine like.
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When they marvel.
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Cadence came in.
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In force was like the latter half of.
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That series, if I remember.
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Right. I remember the X-Men, and I know The Avengers had.
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Like the Red Ronan in their own issues.
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Oh, that's right. Yeah, that kept turned over. It's kind of a Shogun warrior knockoff.
00:07:37 Speaker 1
Right. Yeah. Like 197. Like just before 200, they had that like a 2 issue, Red Ronan thing.
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Right. So Mike and I are longtime friends. And so I, of course, wanted him to be on this episode first because he's the one that kept me going on comics. I think I was probably ready to quit. And then in high school, I met him. And then I thought, ohh.
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Ohh comics are pretty cool. I made a friend out of this meeting in our algebra class and then that probably kept me going on comics for a while now. And then I I think you quit and then I kept.
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One but.
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It's been kind of a back and forth. It's one of those words of mutual interest in comics. I hadn't. I wasn't really into comics. I just knew about it, you know, on the periphery, I couldn't say, like George Perez issue that was this run that they had done. I mean, I when I really got, you know, obviously like I said, Godzilla was the first one. But then it's just a dry streak. Can tell, really, I think.
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The next real kind of collecting kicked.
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In with Kevin McGuire.
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Where his run on Justice League and I think that's when I really started getting into like comics on the regular and really trying to pay attention to things. But at that point, I mean, what was that high school era? Yeah. So then at that point, you and I were already, you know, mutual friends at that point. So yeah, it was over.
00:09:00 Speaker 1
Yeah, pretty much.
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Comics that we kind of really kind of.
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Connected and so the.
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Things fitting that we're connecting again in the podcast.
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Format talking about comics.
00:09:15 Speaker 1
Right, right. Exactly. And you know, like you collected different things than I did. And and we've kind of, I mean we collected similar things, but you have different favorite characters than I do. And you know, it's just interesting that I'm going to probably have probably questions about comics that I don't know your answer to, so I'm hoping.
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To get those answers.
00:09:38 Speaker 2
Yeah, it's a. It's a Reese's Peanut Butter cup. You know, it's like you got your chocolate I got.
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The peanut butter.
00:09:43 Speaker 1
Right, exactly.
00:09:45 Speaker 2
Peanut butter. But whatever. No, but any that?
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You know, but.
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The meat will combined amount of information we might have about country.
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Absolutely tasty.
00:09:53 Speaker 1
Let's have the fun favorite characters. Well, let me see. Do you know who my favorite characters are, Mike?
00:09:58 Speaker 2
Oh, that's a good question. Little spin on the normal anticipated like I always thought I was gonna get a reprieve. Favorite characters. I'm gonna say timber wolf at one point was from Legion of superheroes.
00:10:05 Speaker 1
Right.
00:10:13 Speaker 1
OK, that is my favorite legionnaire. So A+ on that.
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OK, I didn't know that was a.
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Deep cut, so it seems like I was in.
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The right ballpark.
00:10:22 Speaker 2
I would say.
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The Cyclops from the X-Men.
00:10:25 Speaker 1
Favorite X-Men is definitely Cyclops.
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And then and then I would say as far as other characters go, I knew that wildfire also from leaching. But then I'm, you know, the fixation with the legion was always strong.
00:10:40 Speaker 1
Right. I like anything of Legion, even the new, even the even the newer stuff. I like a lot.
00:10:45 Speaker 2
It's like the like the new 52.
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The The Brian Michael Bendis Legion. I mean it's it's not my legion. I I hate to sound like an old fart, but you know, but it's it's I still enjoy it. It's it's not my preferred legion. I mean, he tried to do some different things to it, but I still enjoyed it. It it wasn't my favorite.
00:11:08 Speaker 1
Version of it, but anyway.
00:11:10 Speaker 1
I would. I would.
00:11:10 Speaker 2
Think beyond that, I would go. I don't want to say Batman.
00:11:15 Speaker 1
Definitely not.
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Cliche, but it just seems like you know the.
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The character has kind of.
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Morphed over the years to a point.
00:11:23 Speaker 2
Where it but at one point.
00:11:26 Speaker 2
You were kind of a Spiderman fan.
00:11:30 Speaker 1
Well, that's funny because I dislike Spiderman so much right now.
00:11:35 Speaker 2
I remember you as even in high school, you're like, yeah, but that's what we actually connected on. I was drawing the little Spiderman characters on the guys.
00:11:43 Speaker 1
Yeah, I happen to sit behind you. Yeah, when you were slinging your Spiderman.
00:11:47 Speaker 2
And I think you're the one who told me it wasn't zip. Zip, I think.
00:11:51 Speaker 2
It was that whip sound effect.
00:11:52 Speaker 1
Right. Yeah, that's me for accuracy.
00:11:55 Speaker 2
Get it right. If you're going to be a nerd, then get it right.
00:11:57 Speaker 1
Right, I'm sure I pushed up my glasses right after I said that. Yeah.
00:12:03 Speaker 1
Get that there. Get that right, please.
00:12:05 Speaker 1
Yeah, my favorite character is Superman. Definitely been a big Nightwing fan, although I haven't followed him lately or anything like that. My flash is Wally West, of course in America and Doctor Faye.
00:12:17 Speaker 1
And hawkman?
00:12:18 Speaker 2
Oh, Yep. Yep. Yep, man.
00:12:20 Speaker 1
That's probably. I mean, I like Hawkeye and and marvel.
00:12:24 Speaker 2
Yeah, back in the West Coast, Avengers era when he was leading his own team.
00:12:27 Speaker 1
Exactly. That's the classic stuff for me. But for your favorite characters, I think it'd be even harder for me to pull out who you like because you I think you collected more stranger titles like in my memory, in my memory, you're collecting haywire and.
00:12:46 Speaker 1
What's Kevin O'Neill's martial law? Yeah.
00:12:51 Speaker 2
Yeah, it was man, those are like the teen angst.
00:12:55 Speaker 2
Comics, where it was all.
00:12:56 Speaker 2
About hate the.
00:12:57 Speaker 2
World hate everything and how can we convey that hate in a glossy 4 colors? It's definitely martial law. That was. I still enjoy it. I mean, there's still a level of like, you know, just.
00:13:09 Speaker 2
That ridiculousness, the over the top, the satire of the comic world. There's like, just red meat, you know, the Marvel characters and.
00:13:19 Speaker 1
So favorite character wise, how would you answer that?
00:13:23 Speaker 2
Geez, yeah, I don't know. Honestly, you know, I still, I think you and I, you know, enjoy Captain America, but for probably different reasons.
00:13:33 Speaker 2
You know, I was a I loved the Kirby run and had nothing to do with the previous era of Captain America leading.
00:13:42 Speaker 2
Up to Kirby's return to.
00:13:44 Speaker 2
Marvel the mad Bomb, the amazing collaboration with Barry Windsor Smith and that Treasury edition, the Bicentennial.
00:13:53 Speaker 2
Special where it's like Jack Kirby and his very blocky artwork.
00:13:58 Speaker 2
Meets the fluidity of Barry Windsor Smith inks. You know the fine detail hits the thick, thick, thick lines of Kirby you know, it's such a weird combination, but it worked, you know? And it's just like, man, it goes together like coffee and doughnuts, just like this weird combination. But somehow it all pays off.
00:14:18 Speaker 1
I just like the shield.
00:14:21 Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. And there is something about that level of just, you know, the character is kind of ridiculous. The character has flaws, but there's a a purity to the character that I always like, you know, like. And I think a lot of the fandom on the Captain America front from me stems from.
00:14:39 Speaker 2
The power record.
00:14:41 Speaker 2
Was what made Captain America a little bit more lively.
00:14:45 Speaker 2
You know, Captain records present power records present.
00:14:48 Speaker 2
And it was, you know, tell me again, Sam and maybe.
00:14:51 Speaker 2
This time I'll believe.
00:14:52 Speaker 1
That's funny because I actually used that.
00:14:54 Speaker 1
Mine in one of my comic groups on Facebook I use that that line right there. I I still own that Captain America one, I I.
00:15:02 Speaker 1
Love that thing.
00:15:02 Speaker 2
It's a random issue. It has like nothing. I was like. Where did it come from? Why was that even like they said it? Of all many hundreds of issues that Captain America appeared in, had in his own title, that one was what they said. Let's convert this one into a power record.
00:15:20 Speaker 1
I'm not sure why they chose that one, but I mean it entertained us as a kid, so.
00:15:24 Speaker 2
To the point.
00:15:25 Speaker 2
Where you know?
00:15:25 Speaker 2
How many years later, I'm still quoting it.
00:15:28 Speaker 1
Right.
00:15:29 Speaker 2
You know.
00:15:30 Speaker 1
Ohh ridiculous adhesive acts.
00:15:33
And he said.
00:15:36 Speaker 2
Just like it was saying with such venom. Love that you know, as far as all the characters you know, I mean, I I love the archetypes, so I will always like.
00:15:46 Speaker 2
The Wonder Woman man Batman. As you know, The Pioneers.
00:15:51 Speaker 2
If I were to pick like.
00:15:53 Speaker 2
Who would be my?
00:15:54 Speaker 2
For it, I would probably say I'm strong Ellen Moores. I'm strong character. I loved that character. The concept of it, the, you know, the potential that, that character.
00:16:05 Speaker 2
Has the whole like run was just like the imaginative of going back to.
00:16:12 Speaker 2
What comics came from the roots of the comics?
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Of the pulp heroes of you know, the the doc savages the shadow, the all that.
00:16:21 Speaker 2
And then saying like, well, what would that be like in current comics?
00:16:26 Speaker 2
And I thought that was absolutely amazingly fun read, and there were crazy angst ridden. It's such a dynamic slick from like the Martha Law, the haywire comic, the shadow that I had gotten into for quite a while at that time saying, man.
00:16:43 Speaker 2
You know that kind.
00:16:43 Speaker 2
Of thing where it's just like.
00:16:44 Speaker 2
You know the dark, broody.
00:16:46 Speaker 2
Grim comics that Armstrong was just.
00:16:48 Speaker 2
Like Wow and Chris Sprouse's art all.
00:16:51 Speaker 2
Is always impressive.
00:16:52 Speaker 1
Yeah, I was. I was gonna mention Chris Sprouse's art. It really made that comic alive. And I I totally agree with Tom Strong. I have the I have most of that collection too. It's such great material.
00:17:04 Speaker 2
Those things where it's like the story potential was so open-ended like the world building that was done for that character, you know, was.
00:17:11 Speaker 2
Just wide open and then like the there was 1 character that just I can compare it to like Douglas Adams, like Hitchhiker's guide of like How to Fly.
00:17:21 Speaker 2
Is to throw.
00:17:21 Speaker 2
Yourself at the ground and miss the same thing happened in Tom Strong and I think the.
00:17:26 Speaker 2
Characters name was Tom Strange.
00:17:27 Speaker 1
Yeah, strange Jim.
00:17:28 Speaker 2
He decided to like, well, I'm going to start walking.
00:17:31 Speaker 2
And he just decided.
00:17:32 Speaker 2
To like walk off the planet and just kept on walking through space until.
00:17:36 Speaker 2
He hit Earth and I.
00:17:37 Speaker 2
Thought. Yeah, why wouldn't you be able to?
00:17:39 Speaker 2
Do that. Just I'm gonna just start.
00:17:41 Speaker 2
Stepping away from the planet and just keep on walking away.
00:17:43 Speaker 1
Right. It's got this John Henry kind of feel to it where he's just. I'm gonna do this and I can do it and boom.
00:17:49 Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:51 Speaker 2
Almost like a character on a folk.
00:17:52 Speaker 2
Tale, you know just.
00:17:53 Speaker 2
Whatever they wanted to.
00:17:54 Speaker 2
Do they could do so? I mean, I would say, you know, as getting older.
00:17:58 Speaker 2
My choice of character types.
00:17:59 Speaker 2
Were evolving, you know, and I that's what I kind of liked. But like I said.
00:18:04 Speaker 2
You know I will. It was a.
00:18:06 Speaker 2
Good Batman story, I'll.
00:18:08 Speaker 2
Enjoy it with a good Superman story. I'll enjoy it just.
00:18:11
Kind of getting harder.
00:18:12 Speaker 2
And harder to find those in.
00:18:12 Speaker 2
My opinion.
00:18:13 Speaker 1
Right.
00:18:13 Speaker 2
I just. I won't go out of my way.
00:18:15 Speaker 2
And buy Batman comic. It won't go out of my way to buy a Superman comic, but I love the characters. I just. I would rather read something that is a little fresher. I mean, like when the Hellboy came out, I was all about that.
00:18:28 Speaker 2
Yeah, you know, I loved that. And I loved everything about it, you know, because it had hit all the right buttons. Honestly, I I gave up on that series because it was so sporadic and it just kind of like, yeah. Then that was kind of towards the end of my.
00:18:42 Speaker 1
Regular comic buying era. I'm sure there's an omnibus out there that's probably gorgeous and worth getting, but I just haven't looked into it yet.
00:18:50 Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, I I will say leading into the Hellboy in the Mignola Manuela era. I remember waiting in line forever and I had like the art of Hellboy hardcover. And it was like a, you know, first printing and all that stuff and.
00:19:04 Speaker 2
Waiting for him to sign it.
00:19:06 Speaker 2
And I was like, super, super.
00:19:07 Speaker 2
Excited. You know, kind of the fanboy thing this guy goes up and goes in line in front of me and have Mike Mineola sign it. And and he had like like, a a flimsy trade paperback. And he started up a little, like, conversation. I kind of gave a respectful.
00:19:24 Speaker 2
Distance so that I.
00:19:25 Speaker 2
Wasn't like right over this huge.
00:19:27 Speaker 2
Older and Mineola just starts sketching on the inside cover as they're conversing. I thought. Ohh man, if he's doing a full kind of quick sketch, you know Sharpie sketch and said the cover what's what, am I going to get? Cause I'm bringing this like cloth bound hardcover art of and.
00:19:46 Speaker 2
This dude you know gets this.
00:19:47 Speaker 2
The conversation wraps.
00:19:48 Speaker 2
Up and it's like next, so I come.
00:19:50 Speaker 2
I take a.
00:19:50 Speaker 2
Step forward. Kill. You know, it's like, yeah, bit of a fan, blah, blah, blah. And I'm talking to him, trying to engage in the conversation.
00:19:56 Speaker 2
He opens up the book and put to.
00:19:58 Speaker 2
A. You know a certain page looks at it, draws A Sharpie crown floating above Hellboy's face, or his head and closes the book and hands it back to.
00:20:09 Speaker 2
Me next. So I was like, huh? OK, so.
00:20:13 Speaker 2
You never can't tell. Maybe it.
00:20:17 Speaker 2
Just tired him out to.
00:20:18 Speaker 2
Do whatever it was with the other guy. Maybe the other guy was so annoying that.
00:20:22 Speaker 2
It's like I.
00:20:22 Speaker 2
Give him a high quality drawing. He'll go away.
00:20:26 Speaker 1
Is that when you yelled at?
00:20:27 Speaker 1
Him and said you're dead to me.
00:20:28 Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:29 Speaker 2
No, I I did my passive aggressive and I.
00:20:32 Speaker 2
Was like, I'll never buy it.
00:20:34 Speaker 2
Again, and you'll feel it.
00:20:36
This is the.
00:20:37 Speaker 2
Way and then you'll you'll feel it.
00:20:38 Speaker 1
This is the end of your career.
00:20:40 Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I I carry that kind of clout. You know? It's almost.
00:20:46 Speaker 2
Like the Gypsy and.
00:20:47 Speaker 2
The Richard Bachman book theater like.
00:20:51 Speaker 2
I I put a death curse on him and within the next 90 years he will die. I I am that powerful of a mage myself. I can. I can curse people like that, right?
00:21:02 Speaker 1
Yeah, we'll have to have another conversation about our convention experiences that we've we've done. We've done a few together and and a few separate. I'm sure we have some really positive and negative stories to tell about those.
00:21:14 Speaker 2
You know, would attend the San Diego Comic Con at its turning point from when it went from being comic centric to pop culture centric and you.
00:21:25 Speaker 2
Know as the halls.
00:21:27 Speaker 2
Continue to expand and the additions.
00:21:29 Speaker 2
Made to the billions and people that we met, some conversations that they had and then the best not to you know, tease something out is how long we waited in line just to see that before we had drivers license.
00:21:44 Speaker 2
Of our own.
00:21:45 Speaker 2
And cars of our own that we waited.
00:21:47 Speaker 2
In line for these people and then.
00:21:49 Speaker 2
And who drove us to these conventions?
00:21:52 Speaker 2
Just to sitting down and talking with people.
00:21:54 Speaker 2
You waited an hour for this person. My mom. Just.
00:21:57 Speaker 2
Sits in the lobby.
00:21:58 Speaker 2
Area and has a conversation with that same person. The conversation was.
00:22:01 Speaker 1
Right.
00:22:04
Like what the heck?
00:22:05 Speaker 1
And she had no no clue who she was talking to. And we were like.
00:22:09 Speaker 1
No way, right?
00:22:15 Speaker 1
Ohh, that's terrific. Yeah.
00:22:19 Speaker 2
So amazing.
00:22:20 Speaker 1
Right. That's funny. Uh, OK. Well, you actually mentioned the artist on this series that we're gonna talk about here, and I still don't know why I picked it. It just was random and we both like the artist, Mike Minola. You can say it a lot better than I can. I always said Magnola because that's how I thought it was pronounced. Then later on.
00:22:39 Speaker 1
Realize that's not how you say it.
00:22:41 Speaker 2
Yeah. You you broke it.
00:22:43 Speaker 2
Up like it's cola. Coca-Cola, some Nola and then Mig's like.
00:22:48 Speaker 2
A Russian fighter jet and it's like Meg Nola. OK. Yeah. But I was told, I think, by of all people, Jeff Darrow, he's the one I think you corrected me in the pronunciation. And he said it's more like filet mignon. And it's like it's pronounced more that way, you know?
00:23:05 Speaker 1
Minneola minola.
00:23:09 Speaker 2
Yeah. So.
00:23:10 Speaker 2
So yeah, Minola, which seems like it's almost reversing those letters of the G and the N.
00:23:17 Speaker 2
Think it's just I just dropped.
00:23:18 Speaker 2
The key and just went min.
00:23:19 Speaker 2
Ola and that might.
00:23:20 Speaker 2
Even still be wrong, I might still be butchering. I I have a hard time speaking.
00:23:24 Speaker 1
Words anyway, right words. Hard. Yeah.
00:23:26 Speaker 2
My puzzler hurts.
00:23:27 Speaker 1
Right.
00:23:29 Speaker 1
But we're going to talk about at least issue one of cosmic odyssey, which is written by Jim Starlin and drawn by.
00:23:36 Speaker 1
You know.
00:23:37 Speaker 2
Mike Muller.
00:23:38 Speaker 1
Him and see this came out. Let me look and do my little research here. I had it and then we had issues earlier.
00:23:48 Speaker 2
Ironically, phrase.
00:23:50 Speaker 1
Shoes. Yes. Came out in 88, so we were. We were still in high school.
00:23:54 Speaker 2
What I liked about.
00:23:55 Speaker 2
This and one of the things that.
00:23:56 Speaker 2
Attracted was this was at the height.
00:23:59 Speaker 2
Of the Prestige format.
00:24:01 Speaker 2
That DC had.
00:24:02 Speaker 1
Yeah, the little square bound addition.
00:24:05 Speaker 2
The perfect binding the book so like I think amongst the first ones were I think The Dark Knight returns Frank Miller and then a lot of other things came about post that and then there was a glut. I mean they were just pranking these things out right at the earlier part. But like, I was getting things from, I think his name was.
00:24:25 Speaker 2
In Truman's hawk world or something like that.
00:24:28 Speaker 1
Yeah, and Batman, what was his Victorian one that came out? Yeah, that's. Yeah. That was about the same time. Yeah.
00:24:35 Speaker 2
And then, yeah, I ain't got Howard Shakin Black Hawk.
00:24:39 Speaker 2
That came out.
00:24:40 Speaker 2
Just because it wasn't, I wasn't really familiar with the character whatsoever.
00:24:44 Speaker 2
But I you know, it's prestige and Howard taking stuff and I had already been getting like I had this mini series on the shadow and stuff. So it just seemed like a natural fit. And I was like, I gotta get all these prestige from it and then.
00:24:56 Speaker 2
The price kept.
00:24:57 Speaker 2
Going up and I had, you know, typical American.
00:24:59 Speaker 2
Teen no money.
00:25:01 Speaker 1
Right.
00:25:01 Speaker 2
So I was just kind of like.
00:25:04 Speaker 2
Gonna pause on did the books of magic come out that Neil Gaiman, a black orchid?
00:25:09 Speaker 2
I think came up before the books of Magic did.
00:25:12 Speaker 1
Yeah, it definitely did.
00:25:12
I know prestige.
00:25:14 Speaker 1
Yeah, I don't have the the original books of magic. They came out in 90 so.
00:25:20 Speaker 2
OK those well.
00:25:23 Speaker 2
But yeah, back to the cosmic odyssey.
00:25:26 Speaker 2
One of the things that really appealed to me, and I don't know if it was just because of the format of it.
00:25:31 Speaker 2
Being prestige that.
00:25:32 Speaker 2
Was obviously.
00:25:32 Speaker 2
One of it all.
00:25:34 Speaker 2
Of us, I think his first name is Steve.
00:25:36 Speaker 1
Yep it is.
00:25:38 Speaker 2
His coloring was this whole digital coloring wave.
00:25:43 Speaker 2
And I don't think.
00:25:44 Speaker 2
This was digital. The the color separations were.
00:25:48 Speaker 2
Allowed for a lot more vibrancy and a lot more.
00:25:52 Speaker 2
Options for color.
00:25:54 Speaker 2
And that always was.
00:25:56 Speaker 2
Like and, there's a couple things in this.
00:25:58 Speaker 2
And I don't want.
00:25:59 Speaker 2
To dive into some random factoids. But.
00:26:03 Speaker 2
You know it's coloring while pretty much you know on model for most.
00:26:07 Speaker 2
Of the stuff. There's one or two.
00:26:09 Speaker 2
Moments where it's like.
00:26:11 Speaker 2
I think this was amazingly well done, obviously. I mean his coloring is always great.
00:26:17 Speaker 2
But there is a.
00:26:19 Speaker 2
Gold that's on a light rays helmet. He's like back of.
00:26:24 Speaker 2
His head.
00:26:25 Speaker 2
That you can see like.
00:26:27 Speaker 2
Photoshopping kind of gold. Gold.
00:26:31 Speaker 2
And it's like, man, I remember when this was like.
00:26:34 Speaker 2
The best you could do in.
00:26:36 Speaker 2
Digital coloring and you know, that's like transition all and made it look like it was really gold.
00:26:42 Speaker 2
And that's kind of hard.
00:26:43 Speaker 2
To do with the CMYK break out.
00:26:45 Speaker 2
It makes the thing.
00:26:45 Speaker 2
Look, truly gold. And it's only done purely in color. There wasn't like lines indicating and I kind of.
00:26:52 Speaker 2
And jumping the gun cause I think what, uh, the particular panel?
00:26:55 Speaker 2
That I'm referencing.
00:26:56 Speaker 2
With that gold.
00:26:58 Speaker 2
Was like I think an issue too.
00:26:59 Speaker 1
Yeah, I think you're right.
00:27:00 Speaker 2
You can cut this.
00:27:02 Speaker 1
Out. No, that's OK. We're keeping it. But yeah, I agree. The the coloring in this was phenomenal. And like, yeah, like having this be a a reread. And I haven't. I don't think I've read it since it came out. Like I I don't remember. And like my first and my first.
00:27:20 Speaker 1
Look at it again. Definitely the color it it, you know it could have been done yesterday and it would still pop out.
00:27:28 Speaker 1
And like was so sharp and well done.
00:27:32 Speaker 2
Yeah, and it kept to the comic. I mean, now there's so much like, let's say there's a scene like early on. Like, it's like the fourth page end where there's like, you know, Superman's face and his face is somewhat casting shadow, but it's not like when you think about mineola's artwork.
00:27:49 Speaker 2
It's in the bottom right corner of I.
00:27:51 Speaker 2
Think page 4, let's say.
00:27:53 Speaker 2
And for those who are looking at the comic, the home viewers playing the game at home that it's all like the dimensionality of.
00:28:04 Speaker 2
Superman's face is all done by color. Yep. And that was kind of one of the first times I ever saw volume indicated by color. You know, the shape of a face. Usually it was like.
00:28:14 Speaker 2
This just color of.
00:28:15 Speaker 2
The skin in and whatever color Pantone 470.
00:28:19 Speaker 2
4 or whatever.
00:28:20
There it is.
00:28:21 Speaker 2
Or 162 if you.
00:28:22 Speaker 2
Want to go? I think.
00:28:23 Speaker 2
A little paler, but you know.
00:28:25 Speaker 2
The specified colors were just like my gosh.
00:28:27 Speaker 2
And this is.
00:28:28 Speaker 2
Like what? You can actually.
00:28:30 Speaker 2
Do that and it's only done by color. This is almost like a real painting, and that's what was pretty cool that they could actually replicate.
00:28:34 Speaker 1
Right.
00:28:38 Speaker 2
You know that kind of coloring on it and it was like Lynn Varney's colors on Frank Miller's Dark Knight returns was amazing as well. Don't know what happened on The Dark Knight return or whatever Dark Knight strikes again. I think you covered Photoshop and it just went to.
00:28:53 Speaker 2
Like, look what I can do but this.
00:28:56 Speaker 2
Is just great, I remember.
00:28:58 Speaker 2
Ebola was one of The Pioneers.
00:29:01 Speaker 1
Getting lots of colors and.
00:29:03 Speaker 2
But I mean within like a good.
00:29:05 Speaker 2
Solid color palette and that was something that appealed.
00:29:09 Speaker 2
Is this Manolas like first work for DC Comics or had he done anything?
00:29:14 Speaker 2
Prior. Yeah, because I think Gotham, my gas, like came out.
00:29:17 Speaker 2
Well after this.
00:29:19 Speaker 2
But it was still that one shot prestige thing he had done. But after this attack and but I just remember this is, you know, he had been a Marvel person. In fact I have, I think one of the things when I met Manuel at a different comic men.
00:29:36 Speaker 2
I I brought a daredevil issue. One of his first things he had done, and it was only as an anchor, and it was not so good. I mean, for a person who's known for lavishing on ink today, I mean like, to the point where it's like they know 90% of the each page is covered in black ink.
00:29:55 Speaker 2
Almost to the point where you should.
00:29:56 Speaker 2
Just reverse it out.
00:29:57 Speaker 2
Of black paper and just only indicate where things are at. You know, his inking on a daredevil was, it was OK. It wasn't stellar. It was just kind of OK and I was.
00:30:07 Speaker 2
Like, Oh my gosh. But everybody's gotta start somewhere.
00:30:10 Speaker 1
Right.
00:30:10 Speaker 2
But it was kind of like what I liked about this issue was.
00:30:12 Speaker 2
Like I think this.
00:30:13 Speaker 2
Was the first representation of a lot of.
00:30:16 Speaker 2
The classic DC.
00:30:17 Speaker 2
Characters and that that he had drawn, you know, I mean, screwing off with the the cover, you know, I didn't know anything about the. Well let me let me put it this way. One of the things that caught me about this title.
00:30:33 Speaker 2
And going back to your point of rereading it.
00:30:35 Speaker 2
I honestly I don't know.
00:30:37 Speaker 2
If I ever really truly read.
00:30:39 Speaker 2
This comic, when it came out, I was so enamored by the artwork that I may have read like a couple pages here or there, and then I just got hypnotized.
00:30:49 Speaker 2
Like deer in the headlights, looking at the artwork and just that kind of at this point, Manuela was in that kind of like transitioning from Frank Frazetta into his more blocky, recognizable Hellboy look, you know, so.
00:31:04 Speaker 2
There's still a lot.
00:31:05 Speaker 2
Of black, but not as much. People are more.
00:31:09 Speaker 2
And it's.
00:31:09 Speaker 2
Chemically superheroic, as opposed to more of his, now have emaciated.
00:31:16 Speaker 2
Representations of human form.
00:31:18 Speaker 1
Yeah, it's got look.
00:31:19 Speaker 1
Yeah, it says here. According to Wikipedia he did. He did his Marvel work in 83. He did some daredevil as anchor and I know he did a show of Alpha Flighting rocket.
00:31:30 Speaker 1
Coone and then an 87.
00:31:33 Speaker 2
Yeah, because he was on the Hulk and he and John Byrne switched places because I, from what I remember, and this is all like pre Internet. So I don't know how I.
00:31:42 Speaker 2
Got I came across this information and.
00:31:44 Speaker 2
What there there's any accuracy here in it?
00:31:46 Speaker 2
Not on it, but.
00:31:48 Speaker 2
It took over alpha Flight.
00:31:51 Speaker 2
From John Byrne.
00:31:53 Speaker 2
Because John burned.
00:31:54 Speaker 2
Left to do Hulk and that's what Manuel was doing. So Manuela, I believe was doing the era where.
00:32:01 Speaker 2
Hulk was traveling through different dimensions.
00:32:04 Speaker 1
Yeah, I think you're right.
00:32:05 Speaker 2
That's where I came across like rocket.
00:32:06 Speaker 2
Raccoon and and.
00:32:08 Speaker 2
He did that.
00:32:09 Speaker 2
Rocket Raccoon Mini series as a result of that.
00:32:12 Speaker 2
And then there was. Then they had to.
00:32:15 Speaker 2
Kind of like.
00:32:16 Speaker 2
Burn was like I drew every Marvel comic out there. I need to Draw Something different, so I haven't drawn a Hulk yet. And so Marvel was like.
00:32:23 Speaker 2
OK, we'll give you a Hulk.
00:32:24 Speaker 2
And the gave manual of the book.
00:32:26 Speaker 2
And shoved him on out the flight and put burn on the.
00:32:30 Speaker 2
Hulk and I think he only.
00:32:30 Speaker 2
Drew Hulk for maybe.
00:32:32 Speaker 2
About like 3:00 or 4:00-ish.
00:32:34 Speaker 2
And then left and that's when he redid Superman post crisis. So he wasn't on that. He had the opportunity.
00:32:40 Speaker 2
To do Superman.
00:32:42 Speaker 2
Now Manuel was doing Superman on this. One of the things that threw me off is.
00:32:47 Speaker 2
I understand almost. I understand.
00:32:50 Speaker 2
Like who they picked because of this cosmic guys, you're like, OK, we gotta pick giant characters. The best that DCS.
00:32:57 Speaker 2
And then obviously.
00:32:58 Speaker 2
Because it's cosmic DC's main cosmic family, if you will.
00:33:03 Speaker 2
Is Kirby's fourth world new gods?
00:33:06 Speaker 1
Right. Oh, and we're gonna spoil this book. So if you haven't read it and it's and you consider this a spoiler after being published for so many years, you know, maybe you should go read it first and then come back and we can discuss it with you. So.
00:33:21 Speaker 1
And we're back.
00:33:22 Speaker 2
Go on to the spoiler territory. One of the things that threw.
00:33:24 Speaker 1
Right.
00:33:26 Speaker 2
Me off.
00:33:27 Speaker 2
Was what Starfire doing?
00:33:30 Speaker 1
Yeah, she was kind of misplaced there on the cosmic people, but at the time, Teen Titans was, you know, really hot. So maybe they threw in and they needed a female cause other than her, it's pretty much a sausage fest, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:46 Speaker 2
Oh yeah. Yeah, because.
00:33:48 Speaker 2
You know, there's no big bar to.
00:33:51 Speaker 1
Right.
00:33:52 Speaker 2
You know, but.
00:33:54 Speaker 2
They could have thrown and I don't.
00:33:55 Speaker 2
Know it was.
00:33:55 Speaker 2
Because did she need?
00:33:57 Speaker 2
To fly, and at this time one woman can fly.
00:34:00 Speaker 2
So was it the fact that she?
00:34:02 Speaker 2
Could fly, and that's why they didn't go with.
00:34:04 Speaker 2
Wonder Woman and the Jon Stewart inclusion.
00:34:07 Speaker 2
As opposed to.
00:34:08 Speaker 2
I wasn't the Green Lantern brand. I knew you were.
00:34:11 Speaker 2
A huge Green Lantern.
00:34:12 Speaker 2
Man. But it was like, was he in the was he kind of a core character or were they trying to breathe some life into that character after being kind of dormant?
00:34:23 Speaker 2
What was John?
00:34:24 Speaker 2
Stewart's status in the DC universe.
00:34:27 Speaker 1
Yeah, I think Jon Stewart was, I think there was just a few Green Lanterns left at the time, and I'm not even sure he had a ring, cause he even talked about it in the story, how he was one of the few that had it left. And they didn't explain how.
00:34:44 Speaker 1
He got it.
00:34:45 Speaker 1
His ring. I'm gonna have to go back and look to see what they were doing in their regular series.
00:34:50 Speaker 1
But I I know there wasn't many left.
00:34:53 Speaker 2
And I kind of remember when this series came out, you even clarified because like I again, I wasn't huge into comics until you and I met in high school. And then I got into comics.
00:35:04 Speaker 2
As a kind of like a little bit more.
00:35:07 Speaker 2
Of a a true collector, and I remembered when this series came out, I kind.
00:35:11 Speaker 2
Of recall, you saying something about the fact like?
00:35:14 Speaker 2
It does.
00:35:14 Speaker 2
Sure, it shouldn't have a ring.
00:35:16 Speaker 1
Right, yeah.
00:35:17 Speaker 2
Because in that series they all went away.
00:35:20 Speaker 2
You know the.
00:35:21 Speaker 2
Core was destroyed and so that was like there was only hell Jordan left, you know, and.
00:35:27 Speaker 2
You know to have him show up here and it's almost one of those things where, you know, kind of going back to what I said earlier about Captain America when Jack Kirby came in and he ignored all previous, like, history to Captain America and decided this is my Captain America. I want to do it this.
00:35:42 Speaker 2
Way like OK, continuity is gone.
00:35:45 Speaker 2
I kind of wonder if this.
00:35:45 Speaker 2
Is the case where.
00:35:47 Speaker 2
It's like I have an idea for the Green Lantern and it's like, but we have something. I don't care.
00:35:52 Speaker 1
I need a Green Lantern.
00:35:53 Speaker 2
He's got a he's got the ring.
00:35:54 Speaker 2
I guess as much as.
00:35:55 Speaker 2
I love the Kirby.
00:35:58 Speaker 2
I didn't know anything, you know, like it is.
00:36:00 Speaker 2
New gods that.
00:36:02 Speaker 2
Technically, I think that series, the original new God kicked in when.
00:36:06 Speaker 2
What infants? And then I hadn't any ideas like, you know, but I I knew of some of these characters. I think they had started introducing dark side on like the Super.
00:36:17 Speaker 2
French cartoon.
00:36:18 Speaker 2
And that might have been the only introduction or any knowledge I had of the new gods.
00:36:25 Speaker 2
Orion only because he that famous curvy cover for the new guys. If you like won that had him on this like flying harness.
00:36:35 Speaker 1
Yeah. Now that you say that I my knowledge of the new gods probably started other than a couple issues of the Justice League of America where.
00:36:45 Speaker 1
Wear dark side and they and Superman and some of the Justice League fought each other and stuff like that. It was probably pretty limited until this series. I think this is other than also a dark side appearance in the Legion of superheroes. Not to spoil that. Not to spoil that big big setup but but other than that the this is probably my first real introduction.
00:37:06 Speaker 1
Ohh the new gods and even like the new Gods series that I started, it came from this. After this series they started a new God series which I pick.
00:37:17 Speaker 1
I think you did too.
00:37:18 Speaker 2
Harris, Cullen. They did the art.
00:37:21 Speaker 2
It lasted for a while, but it wasn't. It wasn't.
00:37:24 Speaker 2
Cosmic like this?
00:37:26 Speaker 1
Right. Yeah. They tried to bring it, bring it down. I don't want to say down to Earth cause it was still kind of godly, but it was more about new Genesis and Apocalypse, kind of focused rather than DC Universe. Space odyssey like this one was.
00:37:45 Speaker 2
Aspect of it was clearly.
00:37:47 Speaker 2
And which is good? I mean like of all the people that could do a cosmic I would hope that Jim Starlin, you know, having basically really, you know, invented the cosmic universe.
00:37:58 Speaker 2
For Marvel's you know with.
00:37:59 Speaker 2
All the you.
00:38:01 Speaker 2
Know Infinity Gauntlet, the Thanos the eternity. I don't think I don't know evenity eternity.
00:38:07 Speaker 2
But Dang it, you used.
00:38:08 Speaker 2
It you know with a.
00:38:10 Speaker 2
Lot of those type of things.
00:38:11 Speaker 1
Yeah, Silver Surfer and all that stuff. Adam warlock. Yeah, definitely Jim starlin. I was surprised. I didn't remember that he was the writer on this until I reread it.
00:38:22 Speaker 1
For this I thought ohh that makes total sense why DC would hire him to do this series.
00:38:29 Speaker 2
It's just, you know, as far as.
00:38:31 Speaker 2
Like universes that could.
00:38:32 Speaker 2
Support a cosmic level Marvel, I think.
00:38:35 Speaker 2
Is a little bit.
00:38:36 Speaker 2
More better suited.
00:38:38 Speaker 2
You know, they got a lot more in the way of like.
00:38:40 Speaker 2
You know there's.
00:38:41 Speaker 2
No floor. There's no Hercules per se.
00:38:43 Speaker 2
In the DC unit.
00:38:44 Speaker 2
Numbers where they have pantheons and mythology, mythological beings that kind of still roam the world, people of that high level.
00:38:55 Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, I think they've tried and they're certainly characters out there that they could use, but it hasn't been as popular as Marvel's definitely.
00:39:04 Speaker 2
And you know, they've they've given, you know, I mean Marvel's got Galactus, he really I mean something along those lines a being that each planet you know there's not an equivalent in the DC Universe I think they did introduce somebody recent you know not recently.
00:39:16 Speaker 1
Right.
00:39:19 Speaker 2
Since it's supposed to be kind of a galactic knock off, I think when Ed McGuinness was.
00:39:23 Speaker 2
Doing separate DC.
00:39:25 Speaker 2
They created a character that was kind of curvy, asked. That was kind of that cosmic giant being.
00:39:31 Speaker 2
Yeah. So I mean, as far as the.
00:39:33 Speaker 2
Cast of characters. I don't know how.
00:39:34 Speaker 2
You want to kind of tackle the.
00:39:36 Speaker 2
Review of this particular issue.
00:39:37 Speaker 1
I'm not sure I want to go page by page, but certainly things we want to comment on as we look through it, I think maybe that would be the route to go and if what, what do you think of the book overall at least the first issue?
00:39:50 Speaker 2
OK. Yeah. The first issue was.
00:39:52 Speaker 2
Is kind of a.
00:39:54 Speaker 2
Fun romp. There's clearly some questionable moments, and there's definitely some.
00:40:00 Speaker 2
Aspects that I was like, whoa, that was.
00:40:02 Speaker 2
Something that could?
00:40:03 Speaker 2
Be done in the comic. At that time, I.
00:40:05 Speaker 2
Didn't know you could.
00:40:05 Speaker 2
Do that, you know, obviously the the front cover.
00:40:08 Speaker 2
Does not show the.
00:40:10 Speaker 2
The comic book code comics code.
00:40:13 Speaker 2
So that you know instead.
00:40:14 Speaker 2
Of having blood being black.
00:40:16 Speaker 2
You can actually have red blood.
00:40:17 Speaker 2
That kind of threw.
00:40:18 Speaker 2
Me off a little bit, I kind.
00:40:20 Speaker 2
Of like I guess.
00:40:20 Speaker 2
You could at that point obviously this whole issue.
00:40:24 Speaker 2
And you know one.
00:40:25 Speaker 2
Of the gimmicks that was done in this.
00:40:26 Speaker 2
Whole 4 issue.
00:40:28 Speaker 2
Reasons that every book title starts with the letter D and this one being discovery is basically we are setting up all the players, all the points and that's all we're going to do this issue you know.
00:40:42 Speaker 2
We're going to set.
00:40:43 Speaker 2
Things up and.
00:40:45 Speaker 2
After that it was kind.
00:40:46 Speaker 2
Of like.
00:40:48 Speaker 2
So I mean I I enjoyed the story, but it was a little I would have.
00:40:53 Speaker 2
To say a little.
00:40:54 Speaker 2
Bit by the numbers.
00:40:56 Speaker 2
And I think the biggest.
00:40:58 Speaker 2
Revelation and against spoilers for those who still didn't.
00:41:01 Speaker 2
You know that ignored the.
00:41:03 Speaker 2
First speed bump of spoiler alert.
00:41:06 Speaker 2
The biggest thing the biggest take away was the resolution revelation. Either way, you want to say the revelation of the anti life equation.
00:41:17 Speaker 1
Yeah, the big villain of the the series, and it's certainly a different take. I'm not sure they I'm. I'm pretty sure they didn't take this villain anti life in this direction in in later issues.
00:41:33 Speaker 2
No, because I think it's like something now to do with like the human, you know the the anti life is in all humanity and all mortal living being.
00:41:43 Speaker 2
Things. And if you tap into it.
00:41:45 Speaker 2
Right. There's something. It's very convoluted.
00:41:47 Speaker 1
Right. And it's dark sides quest to find it. But I mean in this series he knows what it is and it's it exists and it's this big bad it kind of defeats the purpose of his later search for it if he if this defines it as this dimensional being. You know it's amazing powers which I've the question whether he really does have amazing.
00:42:08 Speaker 1
Yours says.
00:42:09 Speaker 1
Some of this, some of the series that he kind of like. Oh, that's that's all he he did. OK, that's that's great. That's this is the big bat. This is the big bad. Yeah. The first issue I mean it's all set up which is fine. I mean that's what you do on the first issue. I found it fun that even like in the first intro pages.
00:42:30 Speaker 1
That you have all these parademons, who nowadays, they're kind of drones and they just they hail dark side, you know, and they they don't speak, they don't have minds of their own kind of thing. Right. And then, you know, in the opening issue the opening pages they have you know ohh they're just surprised that they made it on the earth you know and like oh you know here's.
00:42:51 Speaker 1
Here's what should we do? And then you know, they're all they're all talking. And when? When Superman and Lightray appear.
00:42:59 Speaker 1
Initially, you know it's a big battle and I mean, I think they even look a little different. They all have like an individual kind of look where in current current versions, you know, they all have a uniform look, they're all, they're all identical. And like you said, they're all just drones. So I found it kind of odd.
00:43:19 Speaker 1
And and I'm. I was glad this made it more unique. You know, this version of it, I almost wish they'd go back to it.
00:43:27 Speaker 2
Yeah, I was going to say because what it did, at least in my opinion, was by doing that. It gives them all you.
00:43:35 Speaker 2
It it makes the chaos of Apocalypse.
00:43:39 Speaker 2
A little bit more.
00:43:39 Speaker 2
Real, you know, as opposed to orderly.
00:43:42 Speaker 2
You know once.
00:43:43 Speaker 2
They all are like a trained army. They're all exactly the same. They all look identical. Then it just seems more like, you know, that there's.
00:43:53 Speaker 2
A lot of order on Apocalypse.
00:43:55 Speaker 1
Yeah, you know.
00:43:56 Speaker 2
That they think this by having everybody jumbled up in their own uniforms and of their own making. It looks a little bit more like, you know, we cobbled these pieces together. That's all we could.
00:44:07 Speaker 2
Get, you know and it.
00:44:08 Speaker 2
Just seems more of that pandemonium.
00:44:11 Speaker 2
It's. Yeah. It's it's a grim.
00:44:13 Speaker 2
World and you just cobble whatever you can get you.
00:44:16 Speaker 2
Sword. You know, one of the characters name, but you forward for whatever uniform and armor and bits and pieces you can get and then that helps you survive an apocalypse.
00:44:27 Speaker 1
That's what you need to do.
00:44:29 Speaker 1
Yeah, and I love the character light ray. I think. I think that's probably my my character that I I loved the most out of this series. He's really powerful, but he's light hearted and he's all you know, it's surprised me rereading him, how much it's like, oh, I I really like this character. I wish they'd done more with him.
00:44:45 Speaker 2
One thing that I would say there's a.
00:44:48 Speaker 2
Couple things that that struck.
00:44:49 Speaker 2
I mean, and I I laughed unintentionally, and I love this is a.
00:44:53 Speaker 2
Matter of.
00:44:53 Speaker 2
Like Silly 80s, you know?
00:44:57 Speaker 2
But there was.
00:44:58 Speaker 1
We're going to get, we're going to get that for the T-shirt that we we sell, you know, silly 80s.
00:45:03 Speaker 2
Yeah, but Batman dressing up in disguise as a hobo.
00:45:09 Speaker 2
But he's still wearing.
00:45:10 Speaker 2
His entire family.
00:45:13 Speaker 1
Yeah, I I got that. Actually in my notes too. And my question was why did he dress up? Why did he go in disguise? Cause it would really was pointless and not needed even in the story. It's like, why, why did?
00:45:23 Speaker 1
He do that? Yeah.
00:45:24 Speaker 2
And, you know, granted, you didn't know what?
00:45:26 Speaker 2
Kind of creature.
00:45:27 Speaker 2
It was that was taking him out.
00:45:29 Speaker 2
You know these, you know, killing people.
00:45:31 Speaker 2
And you know, there's somewhat.
00:45:32 Speaker 2
Related, but the fact like you know it, it goes back again, I keep going back to Kirby, but the fact like when Kirby would draw like the thing wearing you know trench coat.
00:45:42 Speaker 2
And hat to help hide his.
00:45:44 Speaker 2
Ginormous proportions is like.
00:45:47 Speaker 2
Is that really enough to hide?
00:45:48 Speaker 2
Somebody who's got rocks skin. Is he gonna hear him walk? He probably sounds like, you know, gravel in a Tumblr. Kind of crunching every time you move.
00:45:51 Speaker 1
Right.
00:45:59 Speaker 2
You know, and then this is like, ah, I am hiding it with a fresh coat. And. But clearly my cowl, it's like, where did the little pointy ears go? Batman, you know, because of that hat is still sitting in the right spot, that it would on a human head. It's like little ears. You'd have to cut little holes in the ears.
00:46:20 Speaker 2
Like you know, I don't remember that Jumanji movie, the original, where they had to cut the.
00:46:24 Speaker 2
Hole in the kids to let the boys tail stick out.
00:46:27 Speaker 2
It's like they cut holes in.
00:46:29 Speaker 2
The hat in order for his little bat ears.
00:46:31 Speaker 2
To stick out, but that one.
00:46:33 Speaker 2
And then there was some weird dialogue. But like, I was honestly, you know, I think one of the biggest shockers was, you know, this was at, like, the point in which.
00:46:43 Speaker 2
Comics were still very, very kid friendly and you know the biggest bad guy is dark side and he's still like, not like shown as his, you know, murderer, which he is. But but then to get to that one page with all the hanging bodies, that's what kind of threw me off as well.
00:47:04 Speaker 2
Whoa. You know, kind of like the meat locker.
00:47:07
Scene if you would.
00:47:08 Speaker 2
And how detailed?
00:47:10 Speaker 2
It was, I mean obviously that it.
00:47:12 Speaker 2
Shows you where mineola's predilections, or where things are going to lead in his work, but it's like, you know, to show it in that kind of detail. It's like, wow, OK.
00:47:24 Speaker 1
Yeah, that's a that's a great page, I mean.
00:47:27 Speaker 2
Just it's beautiful artwork, it it's very emotional and evocative and.
00:47:32 Speaker 2
Posturing that he.
00:47:33 Speaker 2
Gives. You know Batman kind of like stunned into, you know, basic frozen. And unlike Kevin Smith, you know, infamous.
00:47:41 Speaker 2
You know, I wet him.
00:47:43 Speaker 2
You know this?
00:47:43 Speaker 2
One is like.
00:47:44 Speaker 2
I think I want to get sick, so he just ran out of there and you know, it's like that's a reasonable response now.
00:47:50 Speaker 2
Like I just I wet my pants.
00:47:52 Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah, it's very it made it made Batman very human, which we probably don't see a whole lot now. Like everybody pictures him as this experienced, experienced crime fighter. But you know, even he gets sickened by this smell and the sight that he saw.
00:48:08 Speaker 2
But one bit of you know, some of the dialogue was.
00:48:12 Speaker 2
A little peculiar. I think he has a moment.
00:48:15 Speaker 2
Here where? Yeah, he has Batman actually kind of thought balloon scene Eureka.
00:48:23 Speaker 1
Right, yeah.
00:48:24 Speaker 2
It threw me off as.
00:48:25 Speaker 2
Well as like.
00:48:25 Speaker 2
You know the The Dark Knight thing. Eureka.
00:48:29 Speaker 2
You know it's.
00:48:29 Speaker 2
Like you leave.
00:48:30 Speaker 2
That for like mad Scientist, it's not like a Batman phrase. And I know that this Batman wasn't quite at the bat God level that he's at now, where as you were mentioning earlier, he's like he's got a solution for everything. And I'm just.
00:48:43 Speaker 2
Dark, grim, brooding character. The whole Dark Knight right. You know, Dark Knight returns.
00:48:50 Speaker 2
The ramifications of that hadn't quite sat in, so he was still a human. You know, detective level and still had some foibles. But yeah, the Eureka part. And then the other one. And again, not knowing enough of continuity of DC and the new guy.
00:49:10 Speaker 2
But is this lonar's character legitimately Kirby because he does not look like a curvy character, and it seems like the the ambassador that was sent from New Genesis. It's like, boy that just doesn't feel like a Kirby character. You know, all the other ones are very distinct.
00:49:30 Speaker 2
Derby, but that one? Nothing so much.
00:49:33 Speaker 1
Yeah, that's funny cause I had. I had Lonar in my in my notes too, about like I wasn't familiar with the character. I don't remember if I've ever seen them since.
00:49:42 Speaker 1
What is his history?
00:49:44 Speaker 1
Apparently he's been 20. He's had 22 appearances.
00:49:48 Speaker 1
But certainly not anything.
00:49:49 Speaker 1
He's in some some issues of blue beetle forever. People. Yeah. I'm not sure his origin. And I I'm not sure I would. You want to take the time to look up this guy? He seemed like he seemed out of place. Like, were they trying to get a Thor character or, you know, with the helmet and the wings?
00:50:08 Speaker 2
And and the name. I didn't know if it was like to me. It felt like is this? I mean like obviously you.
00:50:15 Speaker 2
Know no, I know a little.
00:50:17 Speaker 2
Bit more about.
00:50:18 Speaker 2
That the characters from you know.
00:50:21 Speaker 2
The 4th world.
00:50:22 Speaker 2
You know, there's the Stan Lee, you know, analog.
00:50:26 Speaker 2
Of that was a.
00:50:28 Speaker 2
Godfrey character glorious Godfrey. You know, there's a lot of those type moments where it's like.
00:50:33 Speaker 2
Ah yeah, that's this, you know.
00:50:35 Speaker 2
Kind of tongue.
00:50:36 Speaker 2
In cheek and I kind of wondered.
00:50:37 Speaker 2
Like with Lonar, it's.
00:50:39 Speaker 2
Like, yeah, this guy's on loan.
00:50:41 Speaker 2
He's not really, you know, it's.
00:50:42 Speaker 2
Like if your car is in the.
00:50:44 Speaker 2
Shop. What do they give you? Ohh they give.
00:50:46 Speaker 2
You a loaner? I kind of wonder.
00:50:49 Speaker 2
A ton in cheek reference to this character's name of.
00:50:51 Speaker 2
Like, yeah, he's a loaner. We're loaning.
00:50:54 Speaker 2
Him to the earth as our ambassador, and it's like it was that intentional. And that's why I wondered, like, was he a character before? Has he ever.
00:51:02 Speaker 2
Used him again after this.
00:51:03 Speaker 1
And if you know why don't you write us and let us know if if there's a loan our expert out there, we'll, we'll we'll read your comments, yeah. Loan our fan. There's gotta be a loan. Our web page out there somewhere.
00:51:17 Speaker 2
Well, they're probably like, you know, deviant art.
00:51:20 Speaker 2
We've been like.
00:51:21 Speaker 2
Finally, flow charts and recognize.
00:51:23 Speaker 1
Right. He's getting the love.
00:51:25 Speaker 2
Yeah, but you know, again going back.
00:51:27 Speaker 2
I think Minola does a fantastic job.
00:51:30 Speaker 2
Capturing a lot of the Kirby tropes.
00:51:33 Speaker 2
As far as like you.
00:51:34 Speaker 2
Know the mechanisms the you know.
00:51:37
I mean.
00:51:38 Speaker 2
Mula has his.
00:51:39 Speaker 2
Statuary. You'll always have his statuary, but when there's that two page thread when they land on New genesis, there's a lot of Kirby, a lot of his like, you know, random bridges, random support beams, random, you know, just detail for the sake of detail.
00:51:59 Speaker 2
Little nuances and.
00:52:01 Speaker 2
You know, floating, you know, bits of, you know, to try this is.
00:52:05 Speaker 2
Like what is that? What is?
00:52:06 Speaker 2
That supposed to be is like. It doesn't matter it.
00:52:08 Speaker 2
Looks cool. OK, that works.
00:52:10 Speaker 1
Yep, whatever. Whatever visually is great, you know, we'll keep it. And yeah, he definitely captures all that he captures. I I like. I didn't realize I knew from Hellboy stuff that he could.
00:52:21 Speaker 1
Do fight scenes, but that Batman and the paradigm and fight scene. I think it's great, like it's just I I was. I was into every panel and felt the sewer fight with the parademon.
00:52:32 Speaker 1
And like I've seen this lone pair demon before, I think I think Jeff Johns and later with the Justice League reboot had this the lone pair demon trope or whatever like that. But I mean, obviously they did it here first, but that fight scene was great. He just I he fits this series like without him, I can't imagine this.
00:52:55 Speaker 1
Would be half as fun, so I mean, definitely the art and even back then, I felt it. You know, the art, the art makes this story. I mean, no offense to Jim Starlin, but.
00:53:05 Speaker 2
Yeah, it carries a bulk of the weight is the artwork. I said this may have been the first time I actually really sat down in Reddit. I was more of a just looking.
00:53:15 Speaker 2
At the pacing.
00:53:16 Speaker 2
You know, because like that again.
00:53:17 Speaker 2
Going back to the fights, because you.
00:53:19 Speaker 2
Were mentioning, you know, there's a lot of the Mignola like vignettes.
00:53:23 Speaker 2
Where he'll like.
00:53:24 Speaker 2
Put a bunch of panels together that are just cropped in you.
00:53:28 Speaker 2
Know just kind of like pop pop.
00:53:30 Speaker 2
Pop, pop and these are things you need to know. This guy walking Batman's tents.
00:53:35 Speaker 2
He's got a.
00:53:35 Speaker 2
Gun and closing in, he's got really teeth. Batman focused on his eye and then the the.
00:53:42 Speaker 2
You know, hand is.
00:53:43 Speaker 2
Well, we're going to Click to assist and it's like.
00:53:47
These are things.
00:53:47 Speaker 2
You need to focus in on you know, and it's just, you know, it gives you that pacing of this back and forth and it adds more tension in still imagery. And you know, when the monster appears above them, that's a great panel.
00:54:03 Speaker 2
Just to kind of indicate scale, almost in the same pose and to.
00:54:07 Speaker 2
See that you know.
00:54:08 Speaker 2
Like ah.
00:54:09 Speaker 2
OK, this is huge.
00:54:11 Speaker 2
And then you know the restoring to holding a gun. And then I thought that was kind of cool too, you know. You know, especially firearms, you know? But it's like, hey.
00:54:21 Speaker 2
I I have to do it, I have to do it.
00:54:23 Speaker 1
Right. Yeah. I have a ray gun. I'm going to use it and just blast blast the hole in them. And it was. Yeah. Such such great visual storytelling there.
00:54:32 Speaker 2
Yeah. And then that repeat of those 3.
00:54:34 Speaker 2
Panels was like OK, you know.
00:54:36 Speaker 2
That which is kind of like, you know, setting it up for again, spoilers for future issues, but it's like he did. He's motionless, indicating he's dead, you know.
00:54:46 Speaker 2
And then like they go back and.
00:54:48 Speaker 2
It's like man, he was clearly dead. He blew a whole way through.
00:54:49 Speaker 1
Right. Yeah. Yep.
00:54:53 Speaker 2
Him this is also one of the things.
00:54:55 Speaker 2
About his artwork the lips.
00:54:58 Speaker 2
You know heavily.
00:55:02 Speaker 2
Gave everybody kind of a slushy feel like they all kind of had expressions. They all had a distinct head shape, you know, it wasn't so formula. Like, like again, not to keep trashing on John Burn, but John Byrne would draw Hank him the exact same way he drew.
00:55:22 Speaker 2
Not Hawkeye, but like Johnny Storm and.
00:55:25 Speaker 2
The same way he would.
00:55:26 Speaker 2
Draw. You know, it's like you could not identify.
00:55:28 Speaker 2
Who this character was?
00:55:30 Speaker 2
Because burn relied on a lot of shortcut.
00:55:35 Speaker 2
You have like a muscle memory.
00:55:37 Speaker 1
Yeah, same same face, same, same body type.
00:55:40 Speaker 2
But this one you know, with Kevin McGuire was the first one that I really felt because I think, you know in my I know Adam Hughes came around at the same time as Kevin McGuire, but he wasn't on a big title. I think Kevin Adam Hughes was doing like maze agency or something like that. But Kevin McGuire was on Justice League and to have like.
00:56:01 Speaker 2
Through expressions through like if you smile.
00:56:05 Speaker 2
Your eyes went, and if?
00:56:07 Speaker 2
You do this, you know.
00:56:09 Speaker 2
Muscles and things have flush.
00:56:11 Speaker 2
Where you'll get back to this. Then you'll love lips.
00:56:16 Speaker 2
He really loved giving people thick Kardashian lips, and it's like, my gosh, there's a couple of scenes where it's like, that's acreage you.
00:56:29 Speaker 2
Know on those lips.
00:56:32 Speaker 2
Painted base and a couple of.
00:56:34 Speaker 2
These panels, and I don't know why I was fixated on it, but there's just.
00:56:37 Speaker 1
Something about that luscious lips.
00:56:40 Speaker 2
And one other aspects of that I thought was and I.
00:56:44 Speaker 2
Don't know Manuela.
00:56:45 Speaker 2
Defined it, but you know looking back at some of the Kirby stuff, Kirby's Dark side had more of a human face. It was, it was rocky, but the proportions were tall, you know, like a human face this.
00:57:00 Speaker 2
Dark side had more of the, you know.
00:57:02 Speaker 2
A formidable brow that really protruded.
00:57:06 Speaker 1
Right.
00:57:06 Speaker 2
And the face is a lot wider and it was flush with the helmet. You know where I think Kirby, like the face protruded out of the helmet. So this I think Minneola did a lot to define dark side. And I think dark side. Obviously one had a Cape during the Kirby era and wasn't as.
00:57:26 Speaker 2
Blocky I think.
00:57:28
It was just.
00:57:29 Speaker 2
Alki, you know, and this is like, he's really a barn door, you know, I mean, this really wide, really slot. Really. You know, just built like the Kingpin. I don't think Kirby captured that when you were, like, so Mignola.
00:57:45 Speaker 2
Kind of took dark side and made him his own, and I think that carried the that look carried quite a ways.
00:57:52 Speaker 2
To go into the toy.
00:57:53 Speaker 2
World, you know the superpowers action figure from the.
00:57:56 Speaker 2
80s that dark side is what people think of the dark side character, and then this was like, wow, that's distinctly different, you know, physically. And it gave him a very unique presence to the character.
00:58:10 Speaker 1
Yeah, I remember the Superman animated series when they portrayed dark side they it kind of more looked like this dark side than anything else and that that's how I remember dark.
00:58:20 Speaker 2
Yeah. So that's really interesting and again.
00:58:24 Speaker 2
You know, I still.
00:58:26 Speaker 2
Floored by the inclusion of Starfire, but I think you're right, it has to.
00:58:31 Speaker 2
With the Teen Titans being popular and so.
00:58:34 Speaker 2
If you're, you know, the teen.
00:58:35 Speaker 2
Titans. You'll love this series.
00:58:37 Speaker 2
Because he's in it presenting.
00:58:38 Speaker 2
The Teen Titans, you know?
00:58:40 Speaker 2
It's kind of like when they have like we we want to get fans from everybody everywhere, but I think he was like the one that was probably the least.
00:58:48 Speaker 2
Affected and then.
00:58:50 Speaker 2
Least utilized.
00:58:52 Speaker 2
But I think it was just like.
00:58:53 Speaker 2
That to avoid these sausage fests, they wanted to throw somebody in.
00:58:57 Speaker 1
And that? Yeah, I'm not sure why they didn't use Wonder Woman, but maybe they had other plans for her or something. And.
00:59:02 Speaker 1
Continuity wise, they couldn't use her. I don't.
00:59:04 Speaker 1
Know it's.
00:59:05 Speaker 2
Yeah, because I think you know, this obviously kicks in after you know, I mean was when did Perez take?
00:59:13 Speaker 2
And modify the Wonder Woman mythos.
00:59:28
Strange things are afoot at the circle.
00:59:31 Speaker 2
See what you know the value or what? When Godzilla that that series came out, I I found a site that came like when the issues came out, but it also listed like what is currently like if you wanted to buy some issues is applicable links to like eBay created.
00:59:47 Speaker 2
Started issue number.
00:59:48 Speaker 2
One, take a wild.
00:59:50 Speaker 2
Stab at the what you.
00:59:51 Speaker 2
Think those are going?
00:59:52 Speaker 1
For Godzilla, I don't know. I'm now. I'm going to think higher than it probably is. I I don't know, 1000.
01:00:01 Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. I'm honestly, I could you not? There's one that's listed here for a carded 9.8 for $985. No, there's some other ones that drop down like it goes to 9.4 for 300, and then it drops even.
01:00:17 Speaker 2
Further for like an 8.
01:00:18 Speaker 2
At either 99 or $171.00 but.
01:00:23 Speaker 1
I know, I know, I know all issues are going up in price, like anything from the 70s and 80s. They're just astronomically going up for some reason, speculation and all these, it's it's quite the market right now, yeah.
01:00:37 Speaker 2
I kind of wonder what?
01:00:40 Speaker 2
Figuring on that and how long will that last?
01:00:42 Speaker 1
But I think you're right. I think you know, DC had plans for Marvel or for Marvel for Wonder Woman, and they just they just didn't include her in on this for some reason.
01:00:52 Speaker 2
Yeah, because I.
01:00:52 Speaker 2
Knew I'm trying to remember because like Perez changed the whole mythos and introduced.
01:00:57 Speaker 2
She was.
01:00:58 Speaker 2
More Greek myth centric.
01:01:01 Speaker 2
And I think a lot of her adventures were.
01:01:03 Speaker 2
That way, so that might have been. Why.
01:01:05 Speaker 2
They didn't want to pull her.
01:01:06 Speaker 2
Into this story, because the other characters had.
01:01:08 Speaker 2
Already been reinvented? If they were or going to be reinvented.
01:01:13 Speaker 2
So I think that.
01:01:13 Speaker 2
Was kind of part of the issue or I wondered if that had anything to do with it.
01:01:17 Speaker 1
Well, and and even like you you we've talked about Starfire and Batman and I don't, I don't know if we have to really talk about Superman, but John Stewart, we talked about a little bit and you could just tell that they wanted to set him up for something and then they they had, you know, even the texts on this is said. And lastly, an old man with the unusual name of Mr. Blood.
01:01:38 Speaker 1
No, I wasn't too familiar. Like I probably reading this, I didn't know who.
01:01:42 Speaker 1
That was at the time, and I'm a DC guy, and I I'd probably just never encountered at you again at all, you know? And. And so I I was along for the ride on that. It's like, OK, here's this old guy, you know, didn't didn't have a clue on who he could be or what he tied to. And then John Jones, Martian manhunter.
01:02:02 Speaker 1
Was pretty familiar with him and could see how he would fit in on this cosmic level.
01:02:08 Speaker 1
You know, he was Superman type strength wise. At least those characters. And then the new gods. I I wasn't familiar with. And then it gets into the history of the new gods and that's probably all new stuff for me like ohh. They're on a different universe or you know a different plane. You know, they could only access through boom tubes.
01:02:28 Speaker 1
OK, you know, I was, I was probably learning that for the first time reading this series.
01:02:33 Speaker 2
I just learned it reading it this first.
01:02:36 Speaker 2
Here it's like you realize that.
01:02:38 Speaker 1
So that was all pretty cool. And of course, I mean, the art is gorgeous, you know, and the coloring, I think, like, you hit on it before it just.
01:02:46 Speaker 1
Really captures just the choice of colors, oranges and the yellow. Just great stuff, and then you know, it talks about the anti life as this separate universe creature who's beyond scale of power and how he he is.
01:03:04 Speaker 1
Sent out four aspects of himself before the universe shut again. That's what the heroes are going to go.
01:03:14 Speaker 1
And try and defeat the dark side has created some cootie catcher, Gizmo machine Kirby machine to to capture the essence of these four minor powered aspects of the anti life equation. And that's that's the cosmic odyssey that the heroes are going.
01:03:34 Speaker 1
And and of course, we haven't talked about Metron at all, but maybe we'll hit.
01:03:39 Speaker 1
Than him in a different segment.
01:03:41 Speaker 2
Couple things that I wanted to, you know, check in on. You know there's the the real Star Trek red shirt moment when they have the the space map that dark side shows and it's like Earth. OK. Yeah, that's your Captain Kirk. You're not going to do anything. Nothing.
01:04:01 Speaker 2
'S going to happen to her.
01:04:01 Speaker 2
Can't destroy earth so.
01:04:04 Speaker 2
You knew that one was going to happen, obviously.
01:04:05 Speaker 2
You knew that the heroes were going.
01:04:07 Speaker 2
In there. But Alpha Centauri with ran.
01:04:10 Speaker 2
I'm like going.
01:04:11 Speaker 2
I feel like I remember something about that, but I knew Staniger was Hawker. Hawkman was like, they're not gonna White Hawk man playing it out. There's no way.
01:04:22 Speaker 2
And then when they said, you know, and then, you know, reading it again, I'm like, well, I kind of think Adam Strange is on ram.
01:04:30 Speaker 2
I think that's where he came from and sure.
01:04:32 Speaker 2
Enough, but then.
01:04:32 Speaker 2
This peg Pego Ron, is that ever a register? Was that ever in the DC Universe prior to this?
01:04:38 Speaker 1
Right.
01:04:42 Speaker 1
Not that I'm aware of. Well, it's the the planet is zanchi and and yeah, that's. I mean, no one as far as I'm aware. And maybe maybe there's an obscure thing that they pulled out of out of some previous issue, but.
01:04:56 Speaker 1
Yeah, like you said, you knew if there was anyone that was gonna fail. It was whoever's gonna go on to these planet, this planet, you know, just so just for the for the drama of it. You know, someone. Someone's not making it out of here alive. I'm gonna guess it was them.
01:05:12 Speaker 2
Yeah, it was that one was. Like I said, it was.
01:05:14 Speaker 2
The classic red shirt moment.
01:05:16 Speaker 2
Of like we.
01:05:17 Speaker 2
Need to send down a scouting teams and McCoy back, Kirk.
01:05:22 Speaker 2
And Anson Jones?
01:05:24 Speaker 1
Ohh crap.
01:05:27 Speaker 2
You know Anton Jones isn't gonna go any further.
01:05:29 Speaker 1
I think it's. I think it was enson, Ricky.
01:05:33 Speaker 2
Exactly. So ends in Ricky, so that one was like Ohh boy. You know, you kind of set that one up. I wish you know for this being such a cosmic thing by doing that it kind of lowered the stakes a little bit. I would have liked to have seen a little bit.
01:05:47 Speaker 2
More of like.
01:05:48 Speaker 2
True, you know, not a disposable thing, but like a legitimate.
01:05:52 Speaker 2
That, like holy crap, something that.
01:05:54 Speaker 2
They would have talked about you.
01:05:55 Speaker 2
Know and had ramifications to the DC universe afterwards.
01:05:59 Speaker 1
Right. Or maybe?
01:06:01 Speaker 2
Fancy. You're like? Yeah.
01:06:03 Speaker 1
Yeah, even thought like, oh, they included Starfire. So they might have something in the Vegas system, you know, which is where her system is from, you know, maybe. Ohh. You know, there's something at stake for her to be there.
01:06:15 Speaker 1
But Nope, it's it's some civilization we've never heard of.
01:06:20 Speaker 2
Yep, Yep. And to the.
01:06:21 Speaker 2
Point where you're like and then.
01:06:23 Speaker 2
The other aspect that felt a.
01:06:25 Speaker 2
Little weird? A little wackadoo was the.
01:06:29 Speaker 2
Pairing of the heroes.
01:06:31 Speaker 2
Again, you know someone made sense and they all.
01:06:34 Speaker 2
All pairing made sense, but strategically speaking they didn't make sense. Starfire could fly fast, light right, can fly faster. Superman, incredibly powerful, incredibly strong Ryan, incredibly powerful, incredibly strong Green Lantern and a green alien.
01:06:51 Speaker 2
Both with amazing powers that can almost do anything. I mean like Martian Manhunter was a random generator.
01:06:59 Speaker 2
Of power.
01:07:00 Speaker 2
Quarters. I mean, the dude can float through walls. You can turn invisible, he can read.
01:07:04 Speaker 2
Minds. He can. I don't know what other I.
01:07:07 Speaker 2
Mean like fly? He's.
01:07:09 Speaker 2
Incredibly, he can increase it and decrease.
01:07:11 Speaker 2
His density he can.
01:07:12 Speaker 2
Yeah, it's just he's a catchall of powers.
01:07:15 Speaker 1
Martian vision and yeah.
01:07:18 Speaker 2
It's just unbelievable.
01:07:20 Speaker 2
And the Green Lantern can make his ring shape anything. So he this one character has any.
01:07:25 Speaker 2
Power and then.
01:07:26 Speaker 2
The other one has a power that can make anything. It's like, OK, so they're kind of paired off, almost like, OK, you guys are identical.
01:07:33 Speaker 2
You go together. You guys are identical. You go together and you guys are identical. Batman and forger. They're both like the peons and they can go together because they're not neither one of them have superpowers. But on a strategic level, these guys were really, you know, dark side was a true strategist. Why wouldn't he have gone like Orion?
01:07:53 Speaker 2
Because you're super crazy powerful. Why don't we pair you with?
01:07:57 Speaker 2
The least powerful.
01:07:58 Speaker 1
Right.
01:07:59 Speaker 2
We're gonna put you.
01:08:00 Speaker 2
With Batman and then.
01:08:03
We're gonna put.
01:08:03 Speaker 2
You with forager? You know that way the.
01:08:05 Speaker 1
Right.
01:08:06 Speaker 2
Foragers come along for.
01:08:07 Speaker 2
The ride. But at least paired off and so to me it just seems like these guys were all super powerful and this anti life aspect is crazy powerful wisen too.
01:08:18 Speaker 2
Weak, barely lacking, superpowers completely to save a planet that most of these people are from or defend as like you send the weakest to defend the most.
01:08:26 Speaker 1
Right.
01:08:31
I mean that would.
01:08:32 Speaker 2
Be all earth centrist. Sorry for people who are from other worlds listening.
01:08:37 Speaker 1
Well, you have. You have fanboys just screaming into their into their computer. Batman's not the weakest, but you know, I'm sorry. He is in this group.
01:08:46 Speaker 2
Yeah, like cosmic level. So it's just like that, just seems like, ah, and obviously.
01:08:51 Speaker 2
You know, there was a story point, and there's all these other things and you know it would.
01:08:56 Speaker 2
Lose the plot and it moves the plot.
01:08:58 Speaker 2
Along. So I mean this is where it's just a.
01:09:00 Speaker 2
Matter of like.
01:09:01 Speaker 2
Yeah, this is.
01:09:01 Speaker 2
Just a story.
01:09:02 Speaker 2
You know you don't. It's not like.
01:09:04 Speaker 2
You know this is.
01:09:04 Speaker 2
All Bobby Fisher check.
01:09:07 Speaker 2
You know, game.
01:09:08 Speaker 2
You know, level of strategy.
01:09:09 Speaker 2
It's just, you know, it's fun comics.
01:09:12 Speaker 1
Right. Yeah, it would be one thing if there was a a stealth mission part of it, you know, and ohh we'll send forager and Batman cause you know they're the stealthy ninja type guys. But that's not the case. There was there was nothing. There was no must move quietly through the night part of this mission.
01:09:30 Speaker 2
And then the.
01:09:31 Speaker 2
The last thing that was kind of a curiosity baby goes over to a payphone. I don't think any listener today, if they're under the age of 20, has any idea what he's holding in his hand.
01:09:42 Speaker 1
Are you sure you didn't read my notes?
01:09:46 Speaker 2
Yeah, it's not gonna.
01:09:49 Speaker 2
Go for two hours to get to your.
01:09:50 Speaker 2
Place in in the middle of the night, look to.
01:09:53 Speaker 2
Your notes and then came back and.
01:09:54 Speaker 2
Was like I gotta get but he.
01:09:56 Speaker 2
He makes this phone call and.
01:09:58 Speaker 2
While it's cool and it makes.
01:09:59 Speaker 2
Some sense you know at the time.
01:10:01 Speaker 2
Was like, who did he call?
01:10:02 Speaker 1
OK, there's so there's so many things wrong with that scene. For one thing, why didn't he wait till he went to the next location where they were going to do it?
01:10:11 Speaker 1
Because it didn't save him that much time. And and who he called. Really. You're gonna call him on a pay phone? Like you didn't have a direct number through the Batcave or or just shouted out his name. Probably would have been just as effective, you know, like.
01:10:28 Speaker 2
Yeah. And I think Madame Xanadu and I think Zant, Anna or.
01:10:35 Speaker 2
Zantar, or whatever her name is.
01:10:37 Speaker 2
Aren't they also out of Gotham City? That he could have gone to somebody of that magical like that is already operating in that town and just said, hey, can you place a a call using your ability to hire ability?
01:10:51 Speaker 1
Yeah, even the even the conversation was funny because he'd say things like great. I'll be talking to you, you know, I'll keep. I'd like you to keep an eye on him. Can you handle it? Like the whole thing was kind.
01:11:02 Speaker 1
Really odd.
01:11:03 Speaker 2
Yeah. And to me it almost seemed like, you know, between the Eureka. Ohh and the other one, this is I'm.
01:11:10 Speaker 2
Gonna throw one more.
01:11:11 Speaker 2
Curveball at you there was a line that threw me off. Superman is punching.
01:11:17 Speaker 2
Don't know if this is the first issue.
01:11:19 Speaker 2
Of the I think he he punched someone.
01:11:21 Speaker 2
And said to them.
01:11:23 Speaker 2
Say goodnight, Gracie. That may not been the first issue.
01:11:26 Speaker 1
No, I think it was. Was he fighting the parademons at the beginning? Maybe.
01:11:30
Yeah, I thought it.
01:11:31 Speaker 2
Was, but I'm kind of paging through right?
01:11:33 Speaker 2
Back to this and it's like.
01:11:34 Speaker 2
No, it's not.
01:11:35 Speaker 1
But yeah, I remember that.
01:11:36 Speaker 2
And it's like sweet Moses, who remembers George Burns and Gracie Allen's commentary even in the 80s. This would have been obscure.
01:11:46 Speaker 1
Yeah, I'm sure I didn't get that reference when I was reading it.
01:11:49 Speaker 2
Yeah, it's like George Burns would end every episode of their TV show together, saying say Goodnight, Gracie. I think he was on the radio program I.
01:11:57 Speaker 2
Mean yeah, this is a little.
01:12:00 Speaker 1
Uh huh, you know.
01:12:01 Speaker 2
Just say Goodnight Gracie, and he punches that guy and I know it's in a different issue because I'm I'm paging through here really quick and he's not really out of that first few pages. A lot of this is just exposition, but yeah, they can they, Gracie and I was just like, you gotta be kidding me.
01:12:17 Speaker 1
Yeah. And I don't know if it's just Starlin. If if that's just his uncomfortableness with the DC universe at the time, you know, it didn't really have a feel for some of.
01:12:26 Speaker 1
These Superman lions or bats.
01:12:28 Speaker 1
Landlines or or is it just that's the way they wrote it back then and we're feeling uncomfortable about it now. Like, you know, we're looking back at it now thinking, no, they would never said it, but maybe they did back then cause it was still the 80s and it was still kind of campy or it was kind of in in between the campy and the serious said it was adjusting.
01:12:49 Speaker 1
And and moving into, you know, maybe we just looking back at it now or saying really you know that's that's.
01:12:57 Speaker 2
Yeah, the, the, the joy that's in, you know, counts of this era, you know, is like everybody having their kind of own catch phrase of, like, great.
01:13:07 Speaker 2
Your great Caesar's ghost or bahara, or you know that they all have their own, you know, exclamatory response to things that you knew it was like kind of their own catch phrase was something of note. But you know that that felt very DC say Goodnight, Gracie. That threw me off.
01:13:27 Speaker 2
And I I'll have to feel I'm doing a quick scan to see if I can find.
01:13:31 Speaker 2
It's gotta be an issue too or.
01:13:33 Speaker 2
Something like that.
01:13:36 Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, the first issue, I mean as we're nearing the end for this first issue, it's it's really set up. It places all the characters on the different planets and so they can pursue this anti life fragment, whatever and we'll get the next one. We talk about the next issue I'm going to, I'm going to sound really disappointed on the powers of this anti life and what he chooses to do with.
01:13:56 Speaker 1
This well, what the anti life creature chooses to do with his powers seems very uninspired when you think about the potential of what he could have done with his powers and it it just seems really toned down I'll get. I'll get to that when we talk about the next.
01:14:11 Speaker 1
You, but it sets them up. You know Batman sets up this phone call and the last page is is dark side and High Father who we haven't talked about, but he's the leader of the new Gods and they show atragon that known as the demon, as another Kirby creation. If I'm if. If I'm not mistaken.
01:14:30 Speaker 1
So you know they're. I love that they're bringing all these Kirby creations into this, but they say, well, they have to combine the two.
01:14:39 Speaker 1
Because Etrigan and and Jason Blood were merged before and and I don't remember the story of how they were not at this time, I didn't. I didn't do any research on that, but apparently they were.
01:14:50 Speaker 1
Did it. I think that there was a mini series based on that. I seem to remember, but.
01:14:55 Speaker 2
Matt Wagner might have done the art.
01:14:57 Speaker 1
Yeah. Yep, exactly. And. And so that sets up for the second issue of apparently they it's important that they they merge.
01:15:06 Speaker 1
You know, and you, you.
01:15:08 Speaker 1
You get this feeling, the dark side.
01:15:09 Speaker 1
Is up to something and.
01:15:11 Speaker 1
It would be. It would be disappointment if he.
01:15:14 Speaker 1
We didn't have this secret plan to take, you know, the powers of the anti life for his own use. And you just know that's going to happen eventually and and hopefully that sets it up for the for the second issue overall, you know, it was just it was a setup issue, but beautiful coloring, beautiful art, some questionable dialogue on some of this.
01:15:35 Speaker 1
Yeah, it it felt felt cosmic. I think to me reading it.
01:15:39 Speaker 1
Know certainly.
01:15:41 Speaker 1
Good first setup issue and the.
01:15:44 Speaker 2
And I like, you know, there's a a couple.
01:15:46 Speaker 2
Tip of the.
01:15:46 Speaker 2
Of the hat. Again, artistically speaking. You know that when they're new genesis, you know, I mean, you're really captures that Kirby feel to things, you know, the buildings that especially that map room sequence. You know, there's all sorts of random technology that just looks.
01:16:05 Speaker 2
Cosmically or beyond the the mortal mind can't comprehend how this works or what its purpose is. I mean there there's in the upper right corner of the map room, there's a tuning.
01:16:16 Speaker 2
Fork with a little.
01:16:18 Speaker 2
Hot spot on it.
01:16:20 Speaker 2
And it's like, what the hell is that? And why was there emphasis put on this, like tuning for? It's like it's a perfect pitch. It's like it's a B flat or something like that. And then we use that every time we want to instruments tuned.
01:16:32
We go to.
01:16:32 Speaker 2
The map room. But why is that you?
01:16:35 Speaker 2
Know. Sparkly like.
01:16:36 Speaker 2
But very curious. But then there's also very Ditko.
01:16:40 Speaker 2
When it goes into the anti life world, it has a very Doctor Strange cosmic, you know, weird world feel to it and it's like I thought that was great with the like the eyeballs. All it needed was like mouths with fangs.
01:16:55 Speaker 2
That you could walk through.
01:16:56 Speaker 2
But it's got like these pathways, these.
01:16:58 Speaker 2
Vegetation narrowed.
01:17:00 Speaker 1
Right, it needed a a giant mouth with a tongue and they walked through it, you know.
01:17:05 Speaker 2
Yeah, you know the stuff that.
01:17:07 Speaker 2
Was like you know.
01:17:08 Speaker 2
You're tripping out pretty bad when you're.
01:17:10 Speaker 2
Looking at Steve Ditko.
01:17:11 Speaker 2
Doc early Doctor Strange as he travels.
01:17:14 Speaker 2
Like the negatives or you know?
01:17:18 Speaker 2
Yeah, not. Yeah. Yeah. He's a doorman. Move, you know. You know, world and stuff like that. So it was kind.
01:17:25 Speaker 2
Of cool to.
01:17:26 Speaker 2
See, you know, have like, I wouldn't. I don't know if it was intentional or not, but I guess very.
01:17:31 Speaker 2
Very trippy and.
01:17:32 Speaker 2
It's like, OK. Yeah. So you got.
01:17:34 Speaker 2
Kirby and Ditko like you know, pioneers in the comic book industries, you know, being paid homage to, at least, you know, if intentional or not, it's still there. But yeah, one of the other aspects was like, I don't know why, but I by your own just human nature, you want to see.
01:17:54 Speaker 2
Faces you want to see the human elements of the things but the anti life equation looks like a hunchback dude with a hand sticking out and it's like.
01:18:03 Speaker 2
Ah, it's just a giant.
01:18:05 Speaker 2
Humanoid looking thing it's like.
01:18:07 Speaker 2
You know when you have.
01:18:08 Speaker 2
Cathedral like creatures that are human like bodies, but tend to go heads or you know, it's just like you want to have some that would drive you insane and just kind of seeing the jet black cosmic creature like this is like I don't have to drive you insane. Or is the setting.
01:18:24 Speaker 1
Yeah. And I I wonder if they let minola create that himself or if Starling?
01:18:29 Speaker 1
Ideas like I wonder what, what impact or what description Starlin had, and then what what it was interpreted as cause it seems kind of, yeah, blaze. And yet it fits right into.
01:18:42 Speaker 1
Nola Magnoli's art style with the shadows and the Darks and the blacks and you know, so I don't know.
01:18:48 Speaker 2
Yeah, there's a lot of elements that are.
01:18:49 Speaker 2
Clearly, playing to you know the strength.
01:18:51 Speaker 2
So it was a.
01:18:52 Speaker 2
Good writer, artist combo pack. You know, it's like.
01:18:55 Speaker 2
Mean Girl loves to do this and then.
01:18:57 Speaker 2
Girl loves to do this aspect or that aspect.
01:18:59 Speaker 2
So I'm going to throw.
01:19:00 Speaker 2
Those things into.
01:19:01 Speaker 2
It you know and.
01:19:03 Speaker 2
So that kind of made you know some sense, but again, it's just kind of like and even when the four aspects are flung out, it initially looks like it's a hand, like reaching out and trying to grab Metron.
01:19:16 Speaker 2
So you read those fingers.
01:19:17 Speaker 2
But then, Even so, the little you know.
01:19:21 Speaker 2
Pseudopods or whatever you want to call.
01:19:22 Speaker 2
Them that are standing out almost have human like.
01:19:25 Speaker 2
Here's the head. Here's the shoulders.
01:19:27 Speaker 2
They have one big red eyeball and.
01:19:29 Speaker 2
They're zipping around and it's like, maybe, but then they finally get cut off and they're just like these black dots with red centers. And I was like, OK, but yeah, I mean, All in all, I.
01:19:41 Speaker 2
Mean it was even.
01:19:43 Speaker 2
Decades later, I'm still floored by this.
01:19:46 Speaker 2
Artwork, is it like I said?
01:19:48 Speaker 2
It's a very interesting.
01:19:50 Speaker 2
9 from enola's work you know cause now his stuff is so minimalistic. It is just like I'm going to represent things in a few.
01:19:59 Speaker 2
Pencil lines as possible here. He was just throwing everything he could at every panel he could, you know, everything's got, you know, very few backgrounds are devoid of background. I mean, very few panels are devoid of backgrounds. You know, there's something going on and a lot of.
01:20:19 Speaker 2
Tremendous amount of detail. Now you know most of this stuff just has this like, you know, nebulous quality to the.
01:20:26 Speaker 2
Background it's just kind.
01:20:27 Speaker 2
Of like people are.
01:20:28 Speaker 2
Floating and things are, you know, very, very limited as far as like you.
01:20:33 Speaker 2
Know I'm giving you a represent.
01:20:34 Speaker 2
Location of space.
01:20:36 Speaker 2
Almost like you know, because it's more high art.
01:20:39 Speaker 2
Than it.
01:20:39 Speaker 2
Is classic comic book illustration. You know, it's it's more of that.
01:20:44 Speaker 2
I want to.
01:20:44 Speaker 2
Just do what?
01:20:46 Speaker 2
You know enough to kind of represent so you feel as if they're in a setting, but you don't know what kind of setting it is here. It's just like, my gosh, every panel. Here's.
01:20:55 Speaker 2
All the leaves.
01:20:56 Speaker 2
Here's all the space. Here's all the.
01:20:58 Speaker 2
Alien worlds and planets with different you know continents and different fields to it. It's like I don't think manual.
01:21:06 Speaker 2
Would draw like at all.
01:21:07 Speaker 1
Yeah, I don't. I don't think it.
01:21:08 Speaker 1
Would take the time to do it anymore.
01:21:10 Speaker 2
No, no. And I don't know.
01:21:12 Speaker 2
If it's a.
01:21:12 Speaker 2
Mix, because like he's writing more than he's drawing, you know, he kind of.
01:21:16 Speaker 2
Crossed over a bit, but.
01:21:18 Speaker 2
But you know at this point, but.
01:21:20 Speaker 2
I did get.
01:21:20 Speaker 2
It you know, because obviously Frank Frazetta had a tremendous impact and influence on his art style, that there was that panel when it talks about like what happened after the anti life equation blew up that thing. And then there's like and.
01:21:35
The world was.
01:21:36 Speaker 2
Rebuilt and we became, you know, one.
01:21:38 Speaker 2
Planet was hard.
01:21:40 Speaker 2
Users and the other is the Barbarians, the Cain and Abels. You know, we're shepherds and we're, you know, warriors. But and I I can't use that word. But somewhat intentionally there's a female on that page that's clearly a Frazetta. I'm going to put the legs in shadow but that ****.
01:22:01 Speaker 2
It's going to be out on display.
01:22:03 Speaker 1
Right. And watch what I do here and that's why I love comics is because of that kind of stuff.
01:22:09 Speaker 1
I mean.
01:22:12 Speaker 2
You can get away with it and come for.
01:22:14 Speaker 1
Right, right, exactly. This is why I love comics. Yeah, it's some great, great, stylized stuff.
01:22:23 Speaker 2
And you know, you know, there's.
01:22:25 Speaker 2
Some goofiness here. There's some of.
01:22:26
It feels a.
01:22:27 Speaker 2
Little dated, you know, but.
01:22:28 Speaker 2
Then also some of it holds up amazingly well.
01:22:31 Speaker 2
I mean manuals, art looks great.
01:22:33 Speaker 1
Yeah, I was surprised how how well it looked still and I think.
01:22:38 Speaker 1
I'm not sure about the story, but definitely the art is still amazing.
01:22:43 Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, there's assets that I I love about it. But you know, there's also very formulaic. I mean, not everything's gonna have as, like, deeper meaning and deeper. Some of this stuff is is intended to be. It is the surface. It's the surface level comic. You're not supposed to read.
01:23:00 Speaker 2
Too terribly deep.
01:23:01 Speaker 2
To it, there's not like plots within plots. You know, schemes within. It's not like it's a dune where all this backstabbing you know and, you know, subtle intrigue going on.
01:23:14 Speaker 1
Well, I don't know. There's quite a bit, you know, later on in the series. I'm a little bit of intrigued, but we can save that for for future issues probably.
01:23:23 Speaker 1
Up on this issue, we will definitely get into issue 2 the next time we chat. For now, I think we should.
01:23:32 Speaker 1
Off and I don't have really a good closing commentary on this, so.
01:23:37 Speaker 2
I think that's perfect.
01:23:38 Speaker 1
Yeah, I think that's that's good for now and.
01:23:42 Speaker 2
Don't have a way to.
01:23:43 Speaker 2
End it and.
01:23:43 Speaker 2
That's it.
01:23:44 Speaker 1
And that's it and that's it.
01:23:46 Speaker 2
On that note.
01:23:47 Speaker 1
On that note, uh we'll, uh, we'll.
01:23:50 Speaker 1
Talk to you next time.
01:23:51 Speaker 2
Good. Thanks for listening.
01:23:52 Speaker 1
Thanks for listening. We'll see you at.
01:23:59 Speaker 1
OK, as I closeout the show today, I just want to remind everyone that we have a Gmail account if you want to send us a note, an e-mail, anything about the show, what you like, what you didn't like, we're all willing to hear about it. The the e-mail is [email protected].
01:24:18 Speaker 1
We're also on the Twitter that is at and This is why I L1 on 2.
01:24:25 Speaker 1
Order or on the Facebook and This is why I Love Comics podcast and I'll post updates on new recordings and other happenings that that I think you would want to know. My thanks again to Thunder chicken for allowing me to use your music on this episode. Go check them out. They are on Spotify.
01:24:46 Speaker 1
Just search the Thunder chicken and you can hear their great music. I'm going to closeout with a sample of their song. Enjoy. We'll see you next time.
01:25:30
1/2.
01:26:04 Speaker 1
And that's why I love comics.
01:29:02 Speaker 1
Hey, I just wanna take a moment and talk about a.
01:29:05 Speaker 1
New love I've discovered, mostly in part because the current heads of Marvel and DC haven't really focused on me as a as a consumer. They're really allowing me to take a break from collecting.
01:29:22 Speaker 1
Current stuff that's coming out because they're not really writing for me and that's OK, I get it. But there's not a deep desire for me to collect anything by.
01:29:32 Speaker 1
Them that they're producing now, page counts are down. Comic book prices are individually up for new stuff, and every few years they feel like rebooting.
01:29:44 Speaker 1
I mean us quote old time collectors. You know, we're not the target audience anymore, which is a shame because I've, you know, I finally got some spending money I'd like to use on these new comics. I'm not the target. That's fine.
01:29:58 Speaker 1
If they lowered the prices, gave me a continuity and some characters that I cared about, you know, I'd probably buy most of the.
01:30:05 Speaker 1
Line, but they don't.
01:30:07 Speaker 1
And that's OK. It really is. Their decision has allowed me to discover something else in comics, and that is back issues. Back issues have allowed me to really enjoy and fill in the gaps that have always bugged me. I've been able to collect the entire runs of series that I've always wanted.
01:30:28 Speaker 1
But never.
01:30:28 Speaker 1
At the funds or the time to get because I was spending at new stuff. But you know my collection of Marvel two and one my DC Comics presents my commandee they've never been fuller and I'm getting series, you know that I've always wanted and just have never had the time before. I love back issue diving now like that's my main focus. I don't have to waste time.
01:30:51 Speaker 1
Looking at at new stuff on the racks.
01:30:53 Speaker 1
You know, every once in a while I will. And you know I love the new star girl. One shot special that came out and focused on the JSA. I loved that. That was great. As I've said before, I'll collect anything like the superheroes. And that was great. But other than that, you know, if I'm going to spend money, I'd rather focus on completing my run of the original.
01:31:14 Speaker 1
West League of America and I'm so close now. You know, I've never enjoyed comics.
01:31:21 Speaker 1
Than right now.
01:31:22 Speaker 1
And these last few years have been exciting for me in a hobby that I started to lose excitement for because of the new stuff just wasn't wasn't for me as a long time collector. You know, I'm really excited for people who do like the new stuff. You know, my sons, when they read the latest flash or a Miles Morales and they talk to me about it, they're.
01:31:41 Speaker 1
Really excited about it.
01:31:42 Speaker 1
You know, I'm sure there's more on the subject than we'll talk about it.
01:31:45 Speaker 1
Maybe a whole?
01:31:45 Speaker 1
Episode will be about it, but you know on this this episode of what I probably could call get off my lawn, back issues, back issues have kept me enjoying the hobby. I would have missed if they weren't available. So thank you comic store.
01:32:00 Speaker 1
And This is why I love comics.