And that's what you really missed with Jenna.
And Kevin an iHeartRadio podcast.
Welcome to you, and that's what you really miss podcast.
We have a very special guest today, Alex Pittsavas very Are you so excited? Kevin?
Jenna Alex literally has shaped our world. No, truly, she has shaped it as a music supervisor. Well she tells, she breaks it down also like sort of the unknown world of what music supervision is and how all of us have been directly I impacted by it, our entire lives, and yeah, it's specifically impacted by her.
And also like I will say, like I don't think I unbeknownst to me, like a lot of the way that I consume music is through film and TV mm hm and not you know, turning yeah, of course turning on the radio or not even in these days. But like the way I used to be influenced by music was what I was watching and what I was seeing. And so this is so she really did shape the way that we or had her hand in shaping the way that a lot of us were consuming new artists, new music.
And even like how you said, you know, there's other ways to listen, like the radio. I it's so good at her job that she so many times has influenced what's played on the radio. Yeah, it's getting played on the radio because she has such a gift at matching up song with story. Yes, and then therefore we're all obsessed with it because we're no longer just hearing a
song out of context. We're hearing a song in context and related to an emotional story moment, and whether it's in like gossip Girl or Bridgerton or Riverdale or OC or the Twilight films or Scandal or the Hunger Game soundtracks. Like she has done it all, literally everything. Wow, I just anyway, I enjoyed it. We can't tally really enjoyed this conversation.
So yeah, I know it's really great.
Strap in get ready to hear just a wonderful breadth of knowledge and a career from Alexford's office.
Hi, Hello are you? I'm good? How are you good?
We are? We feel very lucky that you agreed to talk to us.
Come on, no, no, no, no no, because you know, I feel like we talk to people who are in our position a lot, right.
We don't get your perspective.
You're the taste maker, really like you are the.
Well, that's very flattering. Thank you, thank you, thank you. So are you guys here in LA?
Yeah, I'm in New York.
You're in New York.
Yes, New York as amazing two and a half months ago.
Oh gosh, you just moved.
Yeah, but I've been in LA for I was in LA for twenty three years.
So no, I'm not in from Chicago. There's also a little bit of snow.
No, but I've been here for thirty five years. Wow, I'm an Angelina at this point.
Yeah, I think.
So.
How did you end up in LA?
I came out to be in the mailroom at a talent agency right for college.
Wow.
How long were you in that position?
Six months?
I didn't really know how to drive very well, and but I had I had done some booking in Champagne, Illinois, where I attended college, and I uh sort of contracted a lot of acts from Triad, Mark Giger and Frank Riley in particular, and was lucky enough to be able to come out to LA and work work in the mail room. Soon after, I worked at BMI Broadcasting, Inc.
And then.
I was the second assistant to the vice president, and then a good fortune of working in the film and TV department.
Wow.
So in college, what did you go to college for political science?
What did you think you were going to do when you went into the mailroom agency.
I thought, I mean, I understood what a big opportunity it was.
I was this is the Midwest in the eighties, and to me, the music business was really the live music business. That was what I understood, and I loved this organization, and I loved the opportunity to get to work in the in the big industry.
So I didn't really know what I was going to do.
Because I didn't have a lot of knowledge yet about how things act, how things worked on a big scale.
So you go to college for polysei and then you're just a big you love music. Yeah, music there, and you're like, you know what, this degree's here, fine, whatever. I got to get to LA.
My dad taught political science, my mother was a high school librarian. I'm an only child, so I think I was hoping to check some family boxes.
And also, but I really was a music kid. I loved it. I loved to me it was more than a hobby.
It was sort of in those days, especially, it was how we self sorted the kids that went for you know, went sort of vinyl Vinyl deep diving, and my social life was very very much revolved around live shows.
Do you remember like what got you into music, Like was there an act or anything in particular?
I think I was an MTV kid and so it had it debuted or like, I don't remember when it debuted, but I remembered being pretty fascinated by it.
Soon after. So I love the arrhythmics, I love.
The Police and all the yummy eighties.
Yeah, I just because in your position you've been like music creative production, like you have to have I imagine you would know better than me some sort of crazy good taste too, work your way up and be so successful in your career and so like for me finding out how you know, how you got your taste and so then you get to be am I and you have all this wealth of music knowledge as you're a music nerd. Like what happens then, like.
How did I I think?
I think my taste was developed very much by my friends and sort of what my friends were listening to in high school. What we discovered together was very inspired by the John Hughes movies that were all shot in the suburbs of Chicago, and how masterfully John Hughes introduced what we now think about is alternative music, which of course became very mainstream music to fans all over the world.
And then also in college, my friend we were just introducing each other to music and I loved and I think when people asked me later in my career, like what does it take to be a music supervisor, I think, more than anything, you really have to love music. It's a crazy job to have if you don't, and love discovery and sort of understand there's discovery and music from all eras and maybe we'll talk about it a little later.
I was able to do some period shows and really do some deep dives, and that's as satisfying as new music. I think for my time at BMI, where I worked in the film and TV department, really at BMI, which is you know, Broadcast Music, Inc. Was the first time I really understood that the music and film, the TV and film music part of the industry was very organized. It wasn't something that had occurred to me before that. And to understand that music super like music supervision, was
a gig. Of course, you know instinctively that there are composers. I wasn't yet following composers, really following bands before my time at BMI, and I was there probably as a twenty two or twenty three year old, and it was just really seductive to understand that there was a way to, you know, perhaps do what John Hughes did.
And yeah, yeah, I think that's way so interesting because for a lot of people like you, you didn't.
Know that that was a job.
So for for our listeners, can you just like kind of high level explain what a music supervisor's job actually is because it's so fascinating and it's special, but I.
Don't think a lot of people know.
I think you're probably right well.
At its core, music supervision is a team sport, and I think that is the headline. So a music supervisor is one of is one of a group of key creatives. On the film side, you are really looking to carry out the director's vision. On a series side, you're really doing the same thing for the showrunner. And I think those terms have become more and more commonplace and sort of folks understand what a showrunner does and what a
director does. We sit alongside editorial, the costumer, the production designer, and I think we all work together to make sure that I'll just use showrunner as an example, that the showrunner's vision for their project is carried out.
So when you when the.
Viewer here's the dialogue, they see the production design. So everything is seamless and is telling the story as it is intended.
To be told.
So a music supervisor, as you know, oftentimes I got involved very early, and for example, Josh Schwartz and I would talk about outlines for the OC, like very early in the process. He uh scripted and you know, sort of built conceived of the Bait Shop, which was the
which was the live music venue for the OC. So I had a lot of conversations with Josh, and my job was to not only make sure we brought live bands to perform on the OC, but also to to really keep music coming and so I would send new music. And I think it's really about identifying the sound and so having conversations with the showrunner and director to what is the sound, what what does what does that creative want the music to sound like in the show, And then of course how.
Do we get it into the show on budget? All you know, and here's the here's the on sexy side, on budget.
And fully cleared. And of course there's a complicated clearance process where the artists and writers we ask permission in a in a sort of uncomplicated but complicated legal way to make sure that the rights holders are giving a granting permission and that permission is given in very specific ways and so the scene is detailed, that timing is detailed.
None of it is like haphazard or vague. And so a music supervisor has to have creative chops and and a real connection with the with the create the key creative the showrunner or director, but also be organized enough to make sure that the right song is mixed in, that the rights are cleared, that it's on budget. So it's a it's a left brain right brain thing.
Yeah. Organize seems to be the keyword there.
Organized, organized good And.
I feel like a lot in this business you have people who are super creative, but they don't have any of the organizational capacity right or they just do the
organizational stuff and don't really do creative your music. Sure provision is one of those spots that really straddles both sides and has to be able to seamlessly execute that because music is the underpinning of everything we consume, Like all media, it evokes all these feelings, and it's like, if that is not right and locked in and not being cleared, then what do we have Because the music often is informing are the audience's emotional response to whatever we're consuming.
I think that's right.
I think I would add though that that sort of the production design in the same way.
Oh yes, an editorial also have to be both incredibly creative and also like the organization and the detail work in those.
And those capacities are important too. But right, it's like it's a it's a special it's a special skill.
So often in your work you're talking about budget and you're talking about what is the sound for something you may be working on. You've worked on a lot of projects where I feel like you've almost broken a lot of new artists, and I wonder if that does that come from a taste thing you find this music, you're like, oh, I think this is exactly what this either showrunner or director may be looking for and also their news, so maybe it's cheaper, like or is it.
Okay? Fair enough?
That was kind of along the lines with the same question. Kevin it's more specifically like Gray's Anatomy, for example, right like the Flea, the Fray and Snow Patrol, which shaped a lot of our the way we listened to music, what we were listening to. You changed the artists lives, You changed the consumers' lives. The show was so clear because of that music also in addition to you know, the writing and the performances. But yeah, what is that?
What was that process specifically? Like realizing that these artists were then you know, you changed their lives in a lot of ways, and it was like such a big cultural shift as well.
I mean, I really I really care about new artists and new music, and it was incredibly satisfying to see, really satisfying to see careers launched. To your point earlier, it wasn't a budget. It wasn't a budget decision. I worked on the pilot for Gray's Anatomy and of course through through many subsequent seasons, and I remember sitting with Shonda Rhymes and Betsy Bears and you know, during the pilot, and really back to that conversation that I said that that like you really have to.
Have, which is.
Shanda wanted the music to reflect and she talks about it a lot like the youth and the like the beginnings of the Interns journeys and the residents journeys, and so the music had a hand knit quality that had a very youthful quality. Especially in the early seasons, we leaned into female vocals, We leaned into both like you know, up and coming American artists and European artists. And that time was was a big shift in how a music
supervisor could do their job. So when I started, I did my first project in nineteen ninety five or six, So that was my first, my first movie, which I did.
For Roger Corman.
And you should look if you don't know, if you're not a Roger Corman fan, you should, the listeners should spend some time a legendary movie producer.
An amazing way to learn this craft.
And when I started, everything was through the fact X machine clearances took forever I was male, sometimes like male, you know, the actual male. I I would male a request to somebody and hope to get it back. By the time Grey's Anatomy was on the air, we were now you know, we were faxing, you know, International music was becoming more accessible, less like, less steps yes, So all of a sudden, every band was a local band, and I really embraced that.
I had an amazing staff.
And in those days, it wasn't we weren't really getting music digitally yet. So mounds of CDs would show up.
We would you know, in the mail, and I had a tiny office and the walls were stacked with submissions, domestic and international, and we would listen through those submissions and create, you know, quite painstakingly compilations that took forever to make, forever to copy, and those would go you know, to Shonda to Betsy to editorial and so slowly, Uh, you know, I was able to understand what was working for Shonda, what was like, what songs were sticking, what weren't,
and like, you know, the beginning of any first season of any show, and certainly any movie is a long conversation what works and why.
Yeah, it feels like you're putting the pieces of a puzzle together and just trying to like throwing it out the wall and seeing what, let's say, Shonda in this case responds to what she sees for the characters and the story. It also felt like for Gray's Natomy specifically, and I'm wondering if this changes project to project about
like what about the music? May you think, Oh, because I feel like in Grays in that first season, there's a lot of like vocal similarity quality whether female or male singers, but there's like a sort of like vulnerability and softness and like maybe really honesty and a vocal that is happening in that season. Is that something when you hear that, you're like, Oh, maybe this is the emotion Shonda needs in this or what she's looking for.
Yeah, I think I think that.
I think you really that's really accurate, you know, sort of sense of it. And there was a lot of vulnerability. There's you didn't hear a lot of vibrato in the vocals. It wasn't right, it wasn't very polished. Yeah, And I think that those sounds very specifically reflected.
How Shonda was telling the story.
And I think I think that's if there's anything to say about supervision is like we're in support of the script, like the music muse supervision, although like I really obviously thought about soundtracks and playlists as well, and a great soundtrack is a companion piece.
To the project that really.
Sums up, summarizes however you want to say it the best of whatever is in a season or a show. Is it a key moment, is it a really special song? Might be an on camera, it might be a special artist. But I think you're right. I think there's a certain I think I keep on saying hand knit, and that's what comes to mind for me. There there's something about the music, and of course Seanda's characters evolved, the story evolves.
And so does the music.
The music has to you know, has to live and breathe with the story. You know, there's moments, you know. I think another thing that that Shanda did quite particularly was really think about using songs as score.
And to play songs for five minutes, for six minutes.
I mean I think that, you know, obviously the snow patrol chasing car scene.
Gets referenced quite a bit. It's really scores.
Yeah, multiple scenes coming together in a very huge moment. And this was before splits were so easily if that makes sense to you to your audience, when you could strip out a vocal and just hear the instrumental.
I mean, we really had to work.
With the music in a way that has become easier over the last decades.
Well, because I imagine that on a technical level, to get permission to do that, is that a whole separate ask, as opposed to we want to use your song for thirty seconds in the scenes, like, oh no, we also want to maybe just use an capella for a bit, or just an instrumental for a little bit, and stretch out this three and a half minute song to maybe five minutes, Like is that a whole you have to paint that picture for the artists.
That's clearly that's an excellent question, and it's exactly right.
It's really about.
Might not be like second by second, yeah, but it's you know, it is definitely letting the artists know how the song might be changed and why, and it's you know, I think.
It's used for good.
It's really about it's really about the most impactful use of that piece of music. I don't Obviously, another key component in the music team is the music editor, whose job it is to do all those things, to support both the composer and the editorial team and the music supervisor and really making sure that these songs are expertly, exquisitely perfectly placed against picture.
Yeah.
So when you when say a showrunner a creator Shonda says, Okay, we're going to use this song in this scene. How involved are you or are you able to see that in the process of putting that those pieces together and seeing if it works or not, versus like you know, in the editing room versus just seeing the final cut later.
For sure, a really good question.
I often got asked, like how does how does the music actually get in there? And and it really happens all sorts of ways, honestly, So something that I always did was do these compilations as I see, you know, in the old days took a long time.
In the modern era, you know.
Picking the music is just as is intentional and and time consuming, but the you know, the physical process of getting it to a it needs to go is now a snap. But you know, picture editors are often so musical, like editing is a very rhythmic, you know, musical process. So these compilations would sit an editorial. Sometimes the picture editor would would end up picking the song from these compilations. Sometimes the showrunner would script songs at the very beginning, so like.
The very for the first draft of the.
First outline, we might include a song that inspired the creator and then there were many times that the mute that I or any music supervisor pitches music for specific scenes, and that scene might come over dry without any music.
It might come over, uh to to my office with like this is almost right but not exactly right, or and so then you know, I might have gotten the song right on the first try, and I might have gotten it right on the three thousandth try right, And sometimes silence wins, and sometimes the best storyteller.
Of all, Yeah, what's the most exciting to you? If it comes dry? It comes with a suggested song? Like is there one that you prefer?
When the right song makes it in?
Good answer?
No matter however you get to wear, it comes best answer.
Yeah, Yeah, really like that is that is like, especially when you're thinking about multiple songs over multiple seasons.
Yeah, back to Team Sport.
Like Team Sport, I feel like you have been a part of like the OC sort of changed. I feel like how we as an audience interact with music and a TV show or movie, and I feel like we see that in most of your career, where you are so good at tapping into what is culturally relevant regardless of what we're watching, Like there's always a way and it fits, you know, not like trying to shoehorn in some song. You know it always is the right song.
And is there a point when when you started doing this and you start using these songs and making these artists big or seeing you know, how well it's being received as from the viewers, that then you're now being pitched from labels and songwriters as opposed to you know, I guess my question is how much of it is you hearing music already and knowing, oh, I think this might be good, and how much of it is we got back then, you know, sent a stack of from
labels trying to push Yeah, I mean because I've been into record labels, you know when they have their store rooms of all you know, the promotional CDs or whatever they're sending out to people for things like this. So like, what is or is it both? Is all of that happening at the same time?
Big question, A lot of a lot of way back machine. But let's see, I want to answer this thoughtfully.
I knew when I when I was lucky enough to be on the OC like and to talk to Josh Schwartz and Stephanie Savage that and that.
There was a it was.
There was a real opportunity, especially because of Seth Cohen and like the characters, Seth Cohen was such a music fan.
It wasn't going to make it.
It wasn't going to be difficult to tap into Josh's love of me music, Stephanie's love of music, and Seth Cohen's love of anima of you want to see shows. So you know, we saw posters on the wall and it was such a fun, intoxicating ride. And I sort of can't overstate that, like how how fun it was to really dig into music that I loved. But also to your point, like when when was when was I stopping to pick up the phone and ask? And when
was the phone ringing? And it was It was a real It was a strange moment, honestly for me because I had started in the in the music business as
like a college kid booking. I moved over into b M I and then I worked for Roger Corman and did many many movies on a shoe string, which really taught me and I had the experience to like sort of be ready for this opportunity, but I also understood like how special it was and music music marketing, like marketing departments that labels and publishers were really starting two to realize that sync was a thing. And synchronization is,
you know, the sink. I don't know how much how much detail you want me to get into what sinc is, but.
No, if you could do a little at the people, awesome people.
So sink is derives from synchronization, which is the which is the act of pairing music to picture. And there's always been really powerful, organized, amazing SINC Teams for labels and publishers whose whose job is to make sure that music supervisors and for ads for film, for TV, for games like really have the latest music that their companies might be putting forth.
There's also.
Sink agents, and sink agents have companies that represent that that's really their main focus is maybe representing indie artists or many artists to music supervisors. They are often really talented, have great ears, and if a music music supervisor sends out a brief like I need a song about dying.
It needs to have this lyric, it has to feel like this, It needs a female vocal, I only want one obo and you know, sort of these incredibly specific briefs, those talented people on the other end are the ones listening through their catalogs and hopefully sending the two that fit rather than the fifty that don't. But but those become really trusted partners to music supervisors.
Around the time of the OC.
I remember when the first soundtracks came out and we were in partnership with Warner Brothers Records, very specifically a very talented woman named Laurie Feldman who was sort of running the efforts from the Warner Brothers record side.
We would put.
Up the list of songs for when the episodes aired, and imagine that that's a concept instead of what happens, because it is, you know, twenty years ago, and so we're trying to figure out how to how to get the songs up, to get links to the songs, or at least a place for.
Fans to understand what they just heard. Because Shazam is right, none of this is the same. How are we finding how we find out?
So sync agencies are becoming more and more important part of the business, and labels are certainly understanding the power of SINK as far as reaching an audience. In addition to radio and MTV and record sales and touring, here's a new way. Yeah, and so my phone really started to ring. Always my first the most important thing to me is that we are putting the right music into
the show. But there were plenty of times that we got to debut new music, and I was so grateful for my label partners, my publishing partners, to be able to debut a Beastie Boys song which came through you know, management, to be able to debut be able to do a beckisode, to be able to debut Coldplay mm hm.
You know, Stevie Wonder.
Wrote an original song for the last episode of Scandal Crazy. All of those opportunities are.
Well because also, like you're putting this out there and people are hearing the different genres or style of music that is going with each thing, and so at some point it's sort of like a homing beacon of like, oh, here's another place for us, or you know, or this artist didn't know how to get discovered, and the labels like we don't know how to break them, and all of a sudden like oh this whoever's running the music on the show, gets the style of music we can
get to them to do that. So it did become another place too for sure.
My phone went, you know, ring a ding ding, for sure.
Yeah.
But I think.
The other thing, the other thing that is different about SYNC is that the music supervisor is does not need a whole album or or an amazing tour. What you really really need is the one perfect song for a scene, which is a very different set of parameters or you know, then why you might why an album does well or why it's you know, it's definitely a moment, making sure that moment is right right.
And then there was Twilightlight What.
And again, like Kevin said, all of these moments that you were a part of, from Grace to the OC which came, you know, around the same time, and then Twilight and shaping the way that people were consuming and the way that films were consuming music and putting out these albums. What was the conversation like, they're using this insane body of music from new artists to artists that are you know, we're already established. I'm curious about that process.
What a ride like? What a what a amazing movies?
Set of movies right to be a part of. I sat with Summit executives Eric and Jillian, who introduced me to Katherine Hardwick back to the first movie. Catherine had very very specific, like sort of wonderful ideas about what the music should be. Super talented editor back to that, like the director editor, and.
You know, it was really special to be able to work on I was.
I was older than than the typical Twilight band, but I remember gobbling up all the books, reading the script first and then reading all the books that were available. And of course Stephanie herself dedicated Twilight to Muse, so we had we had a music property already and that was really very specific, right, very specifical, And of course Muse became a you know, the Muse scene in the baseball scene certainly became uh a, uh a very talked
about moment. And I was we were so pleased to be able to have music agree yeah, to be in
the scene. The other thing I want to say about Twilight is that because there were such crazy fandom, and I think I realized it when I didn't go to the Comic Con event, But there was a big comic Con event, and there was a palpable and enthusiasm by the fans for this, for this book, for the film, like real fandom, and I think we use the word fandom a lot in twenty twenty five, and maybe it was used when Twilight came out, but it didn't hit me in the same way, and it was like it
was just palpable, And I remember hearing about that. I remember going to subsequent like there was we did concerts, we did all sorts of stuff. Incredibly talenting, talented marketing exec at Summit, Nancy Kirkpatrick really leaned into the music, and our partners at Atlantic Records did too, really understood it.
And so the other interesting thing about working on a movie that has sequels is that I approached it in this you know, obviously I had a series of different really talented directors who had different sensibilities and we were telling different stories.
But I understood after the first.
Movie, which I was just looking at some notes earlier, which like debuted at number one the soundtrack on the Billboard chart, which was like so exciting. So the first soundtrack had a combination of already released music like of course muse, brand new songs. We had some beautiful tracks by our star Rob Pattinson, and there was a combination of paramore.
There was new things that.
We could introduce the audience to there were some things I think that we all understood after Movie one, that we could debut every single song and that we could make sure that the fan when they experienced moving forward was going to be the first time they heard the song was going to be something connected to Twilight. And so obviously there was like a very wistful, dark, bloody like.
You know, all the all the fun, all the fun stuff. But when I was looking for music.
For the next five summers, essentially because that's when that's when we posted, the movies were posting in time to come out around Thanksgiving, and so the meat of the editorial work was sort of that time of year for me. And some songs were versions, some songs were you know, we had some unbelievable like duets that came together, and that was such a like a special thing to be able to debut all that music.
For all for all the movies.
You talked about building soundtracks, you know, or building an album is so different from choosing a specific song an
episode of television or even in a movie. The way you are such a fan of music and grew up being such a fan of music, and then you're now being able to help facilitate some amazing collaborations in soundtrack form and make an own companion piece to a movie that's successful in its own right, and then an album that's successful in its own right, and you did it for a Hunger Game series, and you like it felt like like I was even more excited for some of
those albums than I would get for the movies because the depth in some of those songs, the artists that I would necessarily see on a soundtrack for a movie that was so like a blockbuster that was so commercially successful, right, and you had some great indie bands on those soundtracks
with huge stars, and sometimes they would collaborate. Like what was the satisfaction of sort of getting to introduce and continually do it from that series to the next series you were doing, and really make an album, you know, because normally you were doing you m'd be doing one song at a time, but this was a full companion piece that like, when I listened to this album, I know exactly what's happening in the movie, yet I can also just enjoy this album separately.
Thank you.
I mean seriously, though, Like I grew up in the music business, and I, you know, as a teen who thought I knew everything and was you know, it could be snobby about music. I just remember as soon as that first Twilight soundtrack came out, I was like, what this is different, Like this feels very different. I had never experienced anything like that.
Back to team Sport Sport, so I think, thank you again, thank you. I can't be understated, like how heady it was and and how like when do you have an opportunity to work on on a series of blockbusters that right, that.
There's such focus on the music, and the directors were so excited to debut and introduce.
Bell Brigade or Saint Vincent and Bonnie Vere who needed no introduction, but that they did something together. We're standing like in an airport and hearing that radio head, I mean the Tom York was going to say yes and like being quite loud and you know at the Southwest terminal.
That's the thing though, like, at what point do you think you can ever get Tom York to agree to do a movie soundtrack.
I'm gonna I'm going to tell you my story that I've told before but really was key to my approach to music supervision. Before I did the OC and Grays, I worked on a show called Roswell with.
The great Jason Cams and Ron Moore.
And nothing but Hits, Nothing but Hits.
And I and I am co supervised with a with a really talented, generous fellow named Kevin Edelman who had done a lot of television and I had come from the indie world, and he really helped me understand the cadence and the click of a series versus an indie movie, and I have so much gratitude to him. Roswell we also like lean into into some into some alternative in
indie music. And an editor had temped in how to disappear completely because I would not have been brave enough to send down how to I would not have been brave enough to send to the editor editing Bays or to the showrunners Radiohead. At that point it seemed impossible. And with a lot of effort and a great deal of help back to sync teams, a lovely gal named Alexandra robertson uh WE Radiohead said yes, like, ah, all the all the you know, the firecrackers go the you know,
there's a party in my tiny office. Yeah, but it changed how I felt about asking and I was no longer after that moment, Like, you know, I felt like, well, no matter what, if it's if it works and the showrunners love it and it's the best thing for the scene, I am going.
To ask because you conquered the mountain at that point.
Yeah, it's brilliant. And that was like years before at this point, right early two thousands, Yeah, maybe two thousand and one or two.
What a great lesson to have though, in that risk taking of you know, so early in the career that you've had to be able to do that. It's probably why you've conquered so much and accomplished so much is because you are willing to push the envelope and ask and do the things that seem impossible.
Impossible is fun, don't always work.
I gotta try, but what it does, you gotta try.
So But no, I think the Twilight experience was was incredible.
Was that your favorite one to work on?
I mean, how do you pick a favorite one out of it?
I know, it's really incredible, incredible.
It's it is really amazing. And I also think you know, when an artist or label hears that you're a part of a project, there has to be this association with you know what you're talking about you. There's a body of work.
I think they know that I care exactly, and I think what else can I say?
I think.
It's really about more than anything, you know, it's how does.
A director see the music?
How like it's it's like, it's really important to understand that about music supervision. How does a showrunner is it if it's Shonda Rhimes, like, if she's her incredibly huge body of work, how are we telling the story in Grey's Anatomy or Scandal or Bridgerton.
It's really about what makes sense?
And for I worked on the first season of Bridgerton, and vocals did not make sense to Shonda right, It was like, how how is Bridgerton's brilliant.
Beautiful, brilliant strings right, beautiful story told in only the way that Shondaland can tell a story.
Engaging dialogue, but like the costumes, the production design, when we thought about how music was going to how songs were going to work, Obviously, the unbelievably talented Chris Bauers does the score listeners. If you don't know who Chris Bauers is, uh, definitely introduced to it.
You unbelievable composing talent.
Uh, how is the score and the song is going to fit seamlessly with those beautiful costumes. The dialogue, and it was really about a modern quartet, you know, modern quartet cover of a of a song that the audience was familiar with. Come closer, Yes, like come closer, not through lyrics, not through voices that that we already know, but that that slow recognition, Oh my god, wildly effect, like I know.
This come closer exactly right, And it also really sets the tone not only emotionally right of getting us into the scene, but also continuously was telling us what type of show, what Shonda and co. Were doing with that show, and it's it's amazing how just the first time you realize what's going on musically, like, ah, that's what we're doing here.
I also remember after the OC, Josh and Stephanie's very next project was Gossip Girl, also incredibly music. Oh yeah, but like I remember sitting with with the two of them, and how is it going to be different? Like the story obviously the Gossip Girl I P. You know, was so popular, very New York like the music is more polished if.
You think about the music, very New York based, very.
Like yeah, things and like and you know, back to those conversations that you have, like how is it going to be different? And and as I said, they're both such music fans. They brought so much to the table as far as like I want I want it to be like this, and we have.
We went on a grand.
Adventure like and of course Lady Gaga was on camera, which was so fun. I still have the that she was on in my in my collection.
Wow.
See, you've always been breaking artists like this is just and the rain hasn't stopped. It's like you, I love hearing about how much you just love music. You really do care, you really do respect it. You've been like such a champion of independent artists and big artists, like you don't discriminate, and it's it's really wonderful to see because it is being a team player and whatever makes the story work the best. And like you've also been a part of like a wonderful organization like Music Cares
for a really long time. So it's it's just nice to see that you care and work and out of work, can you tell what people tell people a little bit about Music Cares before we let you go, just because it's.
A wonderful way to end. First of all, thank you for the.
Good conversation today, like so fun too, ye remember, and to talk through some of these really important moments to me, it's great that it's that it's.
Yeah to you too.
And and I think, like to your point about big artists or very popular artists or or up and comers, like great is great, yes, great is great, and like there's there's we should highlight the best, you know, always the best music. And I don't, you know, I try try to not get caught up. And if somebody besides me knows about it, it must not be good.
To pretend, you know.
Music Cares is the charity arm of the Recording Academy the Grammys more colloquially, and it does great work for music people, so not only artists, producers, but also the the folks in the industry that support those artists, sound people, managers and as they do great work.
They do hearing.
Clinics, they do mental health work, uh and have supported musicians and music people in need for many years now. They did great work with the tragic Eaton Canyon and Palisades fires in LA last year and not you know, they're not.
Natural disaster focused but of course there's an extra special.
Need sometimes in those times. But it's really close to my heart. It's it's a it's a life raft, I think, for for folks who need it when they need it, right, So thank you for highlighting that.
It's great organization and it's you know, it's they're better for having you involved. And it's just an honor to be able to talk to you for shaping our musical world seriously legitimately as people who grew up doing music, both of us. Those those little things that you know, go from you making decisions in your office with your teams and talking to all these people and then OC comes on and I'm in Plano, Texas, and I'm like, what is this music? Reach Like, yeah, like what is this?
This is like, Mom, come listen.
To this glorious Death Cab.
Truly, are you kidding me? I remember making my mom drive me to Best Buy to go get Death Cab for cutie. Yeah because of that.
That is a good story. Yeah, that is the story, right.
And you've done it time and time again. So thank you for your work and contribution to you know, our world.
She'd be very proud of the work you've done.
Thank you so much, thanks for having me.
So nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you.
Bye bye bye.
The the resume is resumeing. I I cannot get over the body of work that she has done and the care that she has given it since the day one.
Right like you, it's very evident that.
She cares deeply about the stories, and not just about the music and her role in it, but the team and the people and the importance of getting the right piece of music to tell.
The right story.
For very unselfish. Yeah, that is a team player.
And what a wonderful job to have, my gosh.
I mean, also, like we need to bring up all the accolades and like three time Grammy nomination. She's been bill Ward Magazine's Power one hundred Executives and Top Women in Music. She's been in Cosmo, Wired, New York Times, Financial, wouldn't she reattime like?
She's just really incredible.
It's interesting to be able to put a face to so many musical important musical moments, and she.
Had her hands on and Yes was a part of Yes.
And it's wow, what a what a gift she has Like taste, I.
Know, really good taste, and I'm just such a an Encyclopedia of Music Knowledge. My god, I would not want to go up against her and Trivia Alex Putsavas. Thank you so much for joining us today. We hope you guys enjoyed such a fruitful conversation about music in film and TV so important, and thanks to you guys for listening, and that's what you really missed.
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