And That's what You Really Missed with Jenna.
And Kevin an iHeartRadio podcast.
Welcome to and That's what You Really miss podcast. Kevin, we got Jenna, We got him, We did we got him. Brad Beaker is here. Everybody. You've heard his name about a million times on this podcast. He was such an integral part of the shaping of the show, which we'll learn about about directing a thousand episodes.
The season's worth of episodes.
He always did the big ones because there was just he always could. He could handle it. They just knew and we are always in the best hands. He did excellent work. We love him, his family and you guys are not gonna want to miss this now.
This is one of our favorite interviews that we've ever done. This is Brad Beaker. I remember us.
Oh my god, it's been so long.
I was just saying that, that's it's crazy.
How you doing.
We're good, How are you good? Thanks for coming on.
It's great to see you guys.
Likewise, also, Brad is like the busiest person in the entire world, So thank you for finding the time to talk to us because it means a lot. We needed you. You were an integral part of this damn show. Yes, we talk about you all the time.
I'm so excited to be here. It's like it I texted you, guys.
I don't know if it ever actually went through, but it was like when I saw you were doing the podcast, I I was like, oh, I have to hear this. And I listened to the first two hours when Ryan was talking, and I mean, I can't even tell you, guys, I just cried, like, I mean, I really and and it was that thing where it was like when it ended for me, it was like there was kind of just no time to look back.
Yeah, right, Like there was.
No I had no reflection and there were all these complicated things all tied up in there.
Yeah, and it just all all came flooding. Is just like yeah, yeah.
Wow, Well thanks for listening to those. It was an important those were an important two episodes.
Yeah.
Sure.
What's interesting too is we've talked to a lot of crew members and they didn't say it exactly the same way, But I think a lot of people who just you know, you're onto the next show, You're onto the next thing, and you have to keep moving. And obviously we experienced a lot during our time in Glee that I think a lot of people had sort of like the deferred emotional like look back at our experience and so yeah, it's so interesting to hear you say that too, like Aaron Kruger was saying.
Yeah, really well and it you know, it's like it was one of those things where I could At the time, it was like, you know, I couldn't afford to stop, you know, there was no time to It was like you have to you have to pay the bills, right, and it was like you just have to go. You had to go find the next It was like hustle, hustle, hustle.
But it was so.
It was just such a I mean, the show really defined my career without question. You know, It's I sort of felt like it was the.
Birth of my.
Entire entertainment experience. You know, it's like I had I had had I was an editor before you know, I was an editor. I worked on Niptuck and and then it was like, you know, I cut the pilot right and crazy, but but it was like everything that I learned, everything that I used today, I learned in that time when we were together, right, it was like all of it was like school. You know of like, hey, this is how you make this is how you make great television.
Yeah, and you did over and over and over again you became It's from our perspective, I don't think it ever felt like, oh, I'm learning on the fly, and you know, doing this you always felt like a really steady hand, which I think is why you ended up doing the more complicated episodes, the bigger you got stuck with all the competitions.
That's right, that's right, that's right.
At some point like oh, you know who could do this affect efficiently? Let it again, make our day.
Get all the shots, get all the footage. Sweet, Let's go back a little bit because there's a lot to cover here. And I'm you said that you cut. You were an editor first, and you cut the pilot. I want to know what you're feeling. What is when you were cutting this pilot, like what your thoughts were, and also what was the journey of your ask reasons to be a director, to go from editor to director and how did you get on to season two and then become like one of our resident directors.
Okay, So I mean it was hilarious because so I'd worked with Ryan and Brad right on Nip Tuck. They had this pretty handsome pilot that they wanted to make, and you know, Ryan went all in on this pretty handsome pilot and I cut that and that didn't go, you know, and then they were like, oh, there's this you know, there's this thing about a glee club, you know, and and funny enough, it was like in high school, I auditioned for the glee club three times.
Never made it. What never made it? Yep? I could sing, but I couldn't dance.
Oh pesky dancing.
You know.
It didn't stop a lot of our cast.
Very good, Kevin, it was very.
I was always very aligned to Finn's story, right but h and I grew up forty miles from Lima, mm hmm, right in a small town in small town Ohio.
That was where I grew up.
You're the closest connection we have to Limo.
I may have been the only person on the producer's side that actually has ever been to Lima.
Oh for sure. I don't think that's a maybe.
But you know, I was like, I remember being like, oh my god, this is this is so interesting and this is so fun. And at the time Ryan was in this wonderfully collaborative phase of his career where he would bring Chris Baffa and I into his office while we were shooting Nipped, and at lunch we would sit and we would go through the Glease script and he would be like, Okay, if you were going to shoot this, how would.
You shoot it?
Wow?
And Chris would be like, Chris and I were so different. But Chris would be like, I would shoot a nice close up of you know. And I would be like, I would take the camera and I would go I would do this and this, and I'll go over here and go over there.
And but Ryan would just sit and listen and be like okay.
And and you know, he used He didn't use a lot or I don't know how much he used of anything that we said, but we we had talked through what the show was, almost seen by scene before he ever started shooting it.
Wow.
And so you had this idea of like what he was going for that was so fun.
Wow. I really yeah. I never knew that even happened. Because in that pilot, as you do with pilots, one of the best things about it is the way that it was shot. All of those handheld moments also, you know, with the big sweeping numbers and the cranes and Andrew on Steady came like all those things combined made a very specific sense of what the show is.
Yeah. Well, and he just he spent.
I mean, Ryan is so brilliant and he just he spent. But he spent a lot of time thinking about it. Yeah, and he really wanted it to feel special and unique, and and you know, he's very close. He'll ask and then he'll sort of look and you know, study what you You never know whether he likes what she said or necessarily you know, and then he just goes and does his own thing right, which is brilliant. But but it was fun going into it because it was like we sort of had this idea that it was like, oh,
this is this is going to be fun. One of my favorite memories of the pilot was like we were almost done with the pilot. I've almost got it put together. You guys are finishing shooting.
And I called.
Him and and I was like, Ryan, the pilot is so good. I'm not sure you need don't stop believing.
The only person in history to ever say that, right, But it.
Was like we we just hadn't we hadn't put it together yet.
I had no idea, you know, and of course it was like as soon as I put it together, it.
Was like, oh my god, that was the dumbest thing I've ever said.
And he still kept you around.
Well, it was it was we were on the phone.
Maybe he didn't hear me, I don't know, but he didn't say anything.
He was just like, uh huh, yeah, that is nice though. That is I think that it's good as a collaborator to just like let people say their piece. You hear them,
and so you're not critiquing, you know. I think if I were on the other end of that phone like no, no, no, just just wait and see you're wrong, you know, something like that, Like I imagine, you know, in that collaborative process where you guys worked hand in hand for so long that you need to be able to say things good, bad, whatever, and not have any judgment on it.
And it wasn't It wasn't an anti dunk stop. It was just like it's so good. It was like and it was like, you know, at that point, having we just watched it and it was like you got to that point and it was like, oh my god, this is great, like I'm in yeah, yeah, sure, And it was like because that was as as as much as defining as it was.
It was just a button on the end of it.
Yeah yeah.
But and the only other thing that was really fascinating it was like we did test the show very early on, and in the original pilot there was a whole long thing with the adults, right, and and the kids didn't come in. You guys didn't come in intil ten minutes into the pilot, right, and you know, you know how they have that line across the screen. It's like, if you've ever been to testing, they have these lines, and it's all the people in the room, right that they
all have this line, and they ride these meters. So if Hawk makes a fart joke and everybody's everything goes up. Right, It's like if it's adults sitting in a room talking. But if you get to the bottom, right, if you click out, you change the channel, that person becomes to zero. Doesn't matter what they do on the dial after.
That, Yeah, they're out.
Interesting, we had a very high number of click outs in the first screaming right, and we're sitting you know, we're sitting at a table and that there are people in all these rooms. You can see those one way mirrors, right, and it's Ryan and Brad and Dana Walden and Jen Selke and and it's like, you know, I have an idea about how to get the kids in in minute five, like if we restructure the whole we could just move
some things around. And and Ryan looked at me and he was like go And I was like, what do you.
He's like, go do it.
I was like, okay, all right, He's like, I'll be in in the morning, right, And we we each had we'd probably had two glasses of wine, you know, like, and it was and so I drove back to Paramount and I was up all night long, right like to you know, trying to re rework it and rework it, and rework it. And Ryan came in at ten and watched it, and then I think Dana and Jen came in in the afternoon. But we screened it again the next night, right, and it was like and it made it.
It made a huge difference, like everything went way up.
Wow.
It's crazy wow.
But it was like you know, we nobody knew, right. It was like it's sort of initially like you know, the pilot was like it was the teacher. Yeah right, it was about the teacher trying to save the glee club totally, and then it became no, no, no, no, no, the kids, the kids, the kids.
It's sort of like that West Wing story, how the president was hardly ever supposed to be in the show. And then as they were doing the pilot and we're testing it, like, oh, we need more Martin Sheen and this as as possible. Yes, the numbers were going off
the scale. You were talking about, you know, the conversations you had with Ryan beforehand about how it would be directed stylistically coming into the editing because you know, we talked to Paris the other day and how we haven't really talked to editors.
We didn't.
You were the only editor really that we had any contact with, and that was because you started directing.
You broke the wall.
Yeah, you broke the wall. So the process of editing is like this great mystery to me because you guys sit in a dark room all day and really make the thing. You can change something from working to not working or vice versa. Like you just said about the beginning of the pilot, So like, what was were there conversations with Ryan. I'm sure that we're besideistically about going into it how he wanted it to be edited, or you already had that history together so he knew your style.
Well, you know, Ryan is so he's so hands on, and at the same time it's like he's also you know, he finds his people who he trusts, right, and then he sort of empowers you to.
But what I'll always say is like.
That first year, i mean, the whole editorial team, we just had this great It was like a it was like our own little family. Yeah, we lived we lived in those trailers. Yeah, we were there weekends, we were there nights. And it's like every time we'd finished, every time someone would put together a cut, an editor's cut, a director's cut, we'd all come into the room and we'd screen it right.
And there were rules.
It was like you had to open with, you know, with you were going to talk after. You had to say, this is what works for me, this is what's working for me, like positive positive.
Right, be positive? Yeah right, yeah, and then this is what's not working for me. Right.
It's like what you like is irrelevant, right, It's like it's like it works or it doesn't or it's not working. Yes, yes you're emotional, and it's like and but we were, and you guys would be gone and we would go over to the stages and like take photographs of each other.
Like jumping off the stage. You know, like it was our own little we were.
We but we spend all our time like trying to make you guys talk and make you guys.
You know, it's like get the last and.
Get the camaraderie and get the connections, and you really, you know, editorial is one of those places where it's like it just takes what it takes.
You know.
It's like for every one day of shooting, I call it three days of editing, my right, So it's like three days to sort of get through all the footage and find the moments and just get it up and together right. And it was like, you know, one of the fun things was like the the way that we used the a cappella singers as the score. Right, there was a group called the Swingle Singers that we used in the pilot that just felt so it was so wee weird and offbeat but yet so right for a
glee club. Yes, And then you know, Jimmy Levine, our composer, was like, we found he found a way to put it into his keyboard so he could literally play voices on his keyboard.
Yeah.
Right, But those were the things we were doing, you know, in the dark, behind the scenes. So point nine percent of the time, everything is great, right, and it's like, you know, and whatever.
We're figuring out, it's like, hey, this is what we're up.
Against, and like, but we're getting it, and you know, and then at five o'clock, you know, Ryan would come in and watch something r right, and he would watch something and it's like and he would give you notes, right, it's my first The first thing we screamed. We screamed the first act of the pilot, and he just kept saying, it has to be emotional.
It has to be emotional, it has to be emotional.
And so I kind of patted it with all this like piano score, you know, and and the act one ended and he was like, it's not funny. And I was like, oh my god, like I have that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's it's not funny. And it was like I was like, come back in two hours, come back in two hours, right, you know, and then you just go back to what originally put together, right, and it was like, oh, yeah,
this is it. Yeah, but you just you know, especially with Ryan, I always played the game of like tell me what you feel, tell me what. Like Ryan was really good at not being too micro. It was the macro. It was like, you know, it's flat, it's boring. I hate him, you know.
Right, but that helps, I mean because you can still do like your art in it and then have him give you the general sweep of things.
Right right, and then it's like, okay, I know what we're working toward, right as opposed to you know, and it's like some people they have to go shot shot by shot, right, and it's like that's that's difficult, you know, or it's not.
You become more of a set of hands.
Yeah, you know than a contributor, right right, right.
Well, he trusts you to do the thing that you were hired to do implicitly, right, and your your taste, your judgment.
Yes, and we had that yeah right.
I'm just so curious of like when that was then you were like hey Ryan, can I can I move?
Let me out?
Okay?
So as this was all going on, right, it was like there. So there was Niptuck, right, and then Ryan did Running with Scissors, right, and I was the assistant editor on Running with Scissors, and then I became an editor on Niptuck. And at some point Ryan and I had this. He he invited me to dinner and he was like, I want you to be my editor, right, And I so naive and like and you know, I was just like, oh my god, Ryan, I'm so flattered
and that means so much to me. But I'm not going to be an editor forever, like I'm going to be a director. And I just I couldn't ever tell you that I would just be your editor, because this is always I'm going to be a director, you know. And I was like, I will edit for you as long as it makes sense and as long as but it's like I will not always be an editor like that. Just and it was like I'm sure he doesn't even remember this, but it was like I stepped on the tablecloth.
Oh no, and I'm not a glass of wine.
Often no, rad Nora.
And he.
But it was like we never spoke about it again, right, but it was it was it was there, you know what I mean. We got up the next day we got up the next day, we went to work, you know. And and so as Glee was starting, right, there was Nip Tuck and ten episodes into Glee, there was Eat Pray.
Love, Yes, right, yep, And and I cut. I was I was overseeing the editing of Nip Tuck and.
Overseeing the editing of Glee, and I cut Eat Pray Love?
Right, So how does that work? How are you? I imagine when you cut, you're cutting Eat Pray Love. Maybe it's some more hands on every day thing. Well I mentioned all these are every day, but like, wow, what capacity are you doing each of these things?
So here's the thing. It was like you know a movie.
You shoot it, you get it together right, and then you really like massage it like you think about you think about it, you screen it, you talk to people, you get feedback, and then you go in and you make micro adjustments. Yeah, you know you lift this chunk, right, you rework this scene.
It was such.
Great training, yeah, to be a director, Yeah, because you realize it's like you make decisions quickly, right, you have to make you have to be able to distill something down to what it is very quickly, right, and and kind of you can obsess all day long on like do you open on the close on the insert close up or do you open on the wide shot? Doesn't really matter, right, It's like it will you make a decision, try it one way, go on, finish the whole thing. When you go back, you'll know, right.
But if you know that as an editor like that, I think that's probably also makes you such a great and effective director, is that you know exactly what editing can't do.
It was great training to actually to start directing, you know, And I'd be lying to say I wasn't. I wasn't taking notes from every director that came in, every director that you saw. It was like, you know, I had a notebook of things that I loved that they did,
and then things that I never wanted to do. Right where it was like, you know, hey, if we're going to start the scene and you're going to come in the door, right, it's like when you go to reset, you only walk to the doorway, you don't actually go out the door.
Right.
This happens all the time. Yeah, right where it's like and then you go back in the in the bin and it's like you can't use that take because you didn't go.
All the way out the door, right right, yeah, And it's like just a simple reset yeah right, yeah.
Yeah, And it's like okay, just always please reset.
Right.
That's an editor director right there.
Right when it came time for you to direct your first episode kids never yeah, I mean such a great one. How did how did that come about?
Okay? So uh.
And we finished so so basically so, Ryan had sort of offered me, hey, so when do you want to direct? Do you want to direct to Nip Tuck or would you rather direct a glee And at the time there was so much I just kept saying, I want to do whatever makes me most valuable to you, like I want to direct. But so in season one, my name came out on hairography mm hm, right when they put
the first draft of Hierography out. But the studio called and said, Ryan got on a plane to go to India, right, uh, scouting for Eat Pray Love, And you've never directed, and it's like you have to wait, right my script. My my name was on the script for SmackDown, right uh. And again you know, it was like, oh, it's too soon. It's like there's too much you know.
Yeah, And so.
So it was kind of like it was there were all.
It was in the it was in the water.
I actually the first thing that I ever directed, I don't know if you remember this, Kevin, was the porta potty in the pilot when you were stuck in the porta potty.
Yeah there was.
Ryan hadn't shot the inside of the porta potty when you were trapped.
On Yes, yeah, that's right, that's right.
And he sent me out and he was like, go over there and set that up and you shoot it.
I do remember. Oh, I completely forgot about that. Oh my god, because it was like a quick thing. We like came over just did that piece, just.
That little thing. Yeah, right.
That felt really fancy to me too, by the way, like it was the first time I had been called to like, oh, we have to go do this thing that we didn't do before, and I don't know why. I'm like, oh, we're really making a TV show, right. That felt really like on the fly, you know, go get in that costume, go do this. I'm like, yeah, great, this is so exciting.
Do you remember we took the back out of the Yes, the back out of it, so it.
Was like real movie make it like that's what it was like to be yes.
But but so when r so basically Ryan came to me after he play level was like, I'm going to give you, ah, I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna make it a special episode. I'm gonna make I'm gonna give you an episode that counts, right, And I mean that script was such a gift to be able to. It was just such a you know, it was it was such a turning point. It was a twist in its
own way. It was like wheels like wheels was that it was like it was such a revelation that on the page that was hands down like the biggest thing that we did in season one, right to reveal that Sue you know, had a soft spot, right right right, and then it was like to take the bully and you know, make the give the bully a secret.
Right.
But so that was you know that that was the I mean, he completely set me up to succeed, you know. And it's like, in hindsight, had you know, had been hierography, that may have been the only one I ever.
Did, right, Yeah, you know what I mean, because some of those were trickier. You know, we'd have directors in there, yeah, and we're like, oh, how are they going to do this? Because yeah, some of them are just trickier to make, like some of the kookier things if you would lean into them a little too much, like is that going to work as well? You never know?
But well and right, And it's like some of them were. And it was one of those things where it was like, look, I always wanted to direct. I've had no idea that I would really get to transition out right, you know what I mean, Like it was like and had that
episode not been what it was very easy. It's very lots of people get one episode, right, you know what I mean, Like you get one chance, and it's like I've always you know, it's like they say, better better to be lucky than good, right, And it was.
Like it was I was so lucky.
It's both, I mean, it was yeah, and I'm sure you had you had also had an advantage of like coming in as an editor, knowing what what you're sending to the cutting room, right, you know what you need to get, you know if you have it or not, if they can make it work with what you've got that day, and then also just having the wherewithal like we don't need that. There's a bunch of you know,
to make your days. I think the skilled part that comes in is like you were so actor friendly, and most of our directors that we we liked working with the most worthy, actor friendly ones who came in and knew the character or helped us kind of like what we already know about these characters, right, they're like, this is your house, tummy, and let's collaborate and make this work.
And then having the big picture. So it's it's interesting to me because you came and so actor friendly from the start, and also just with the wherewithal to be like, Okay, this is this is the vision, here's the plan. We've got it. You know, we're crossing its shots off the big whiteboard.
Yeah, it's incredible.
Well, I felt like I listened to most I listened to a lot of the podcasts and listening to people talk and like, you know, the things that you guys talk about on the show is so interesting because my experience was so different in so many ways.
Like I felt like.
My job was to just tell the story right and whatever the story was, whatever it was given. You know, people lots of people had thoughts about whether this story or this It was like my job was to make it work right, and that was my training from the editing. So it was like, in order to make this work, the only way I know how to do this is
this right. And it's like as time went on, you know, or it's like you know, it's like when we lost Corey and it was like there was always that thing that was like.
Should the show have ended? Or like.
I could never think about that right, Like that that just to me, that wasn't my job, right, Like my job was to show up every day and try to inspire you guys to lean in in the best possible way to tell this, Like I I have some funny memories of like like it was very it was always just just stay with me, right, And so here here a couple of good ones. When we were shooting uh
the funeral. During the we're singing pure imagination. Yeah, everyone's everyone's in the like lined up in the choir and we we start rolling and I walk around the back and there's a curtain back there, and when I opened the curtain, there are two cast members standing in the back playing a video game on their phone.
Like during the number.
Oh god.
Yeah, and it was just like, okay, cut, we just don't do that, right, let's go again. Right, they were on camera, they were on camera, they were standing in standing in the back row.
Everyone was like, so they couldn't have been me. They couldn't have been me.
You remember this, yes, I do.
Oh my god, that is bold.
It was a weird It was a weird energy day. I'll never forget it.
That was a weird day.
Yeah, for sure.
And then it was you know, there'll be things like someone would come up and say, you know, like during during one of the competitions, someone will come up. Let's say, okay, well, the cast is decided they're not going to sing the background vocals in the song, right because they didn't record them. Yeah, And so they've all gotten together and they've all decided that they're not going to sing the background vocals.
We did that.
So I call everybody together and I would just be like, you, guys, I've heard that you don't want to sing the background vocals.
I know your voices aren't in there. I'm so sorry. I just want to tell you that.
Like I called Adamanders and I've set up a recording session after we wrap tonight, so you guys can all get your voices in there, but I need you to sing the temp track today, right, And if you don't want to do it, we can wait and we can put And it was like, no, we'll do it, We'll just sing it.
It's like when I've heard stories of like other shows where there are potentially more challenging actors in how they stage a scene or block a scene before in their rehearsal, and you know, the director would know have the wherewithal to be like, okay, I know this actor is going to be like, well what if I went left instead of going right? And so the director would then go, okay, I think maybe you should go right here at this point, and they the actor would be like, no, I think I'll go left.
I would do things like set my backpack on a chair that I didn't want you to sit in when you came in, like and I would, you know, and it was like I was sort of arranged.
The room right.
I shook And a couple of times.
This was like on that New York set, like someone would come in and be like, you know what, I'm gonna sit there. I've never sat in that chair before I love that idea.
Ah, I can't get We were such poles, were going to sing backgrounds well I.
Remember, I don't remember which competition it was, but it was the introduction of the Brad Beaker wig. We were doing some insane nationals regional sectionals one of those which Brad always got those because it was very organized. He had a big whiteboard with all the shots we needed from all of the different choirs, including interactions, and literally it would be like people would be crossing these shots off and it's the way we got them done. He
got them done so efficiently. And if you saw Brad at one of those in one of those episodes, we were like, we're just gonna get it done, like we just knew. We were like, okay, we're in good hands. But there was one and we were working really late, right, it was a really late night, and I don't know where this came from, Brad or who you got this from. I mean, there is a hair department, but Brad put on a wig and it really shifted the framework for how we went about the rest of that day, like
it's not that serious, let's get it done. We're here and it's funny.
I don't know.
There was something about it. And then when I came to shadow you on American Horror Story, the wig was back. The wig lived on.
Wait really, yeah, no way the wig lives.
Where did the wig come from?
Brad Okay?
So the you know the first time the war the wig wants as a joke, right, I think I wore it at that competition as a joke and it immediately created a levity on set that I've found so valuable.
You knew your audience and so yeah, and just but.
Just I would just come around the corner and you would forget that it was me, and it would be like, it's not so bad. He's wearing a wig, you know what I mean. But there was one during in I Think It's wedding was in season six. Right in season six, I was I'd been sent to New Orleans.
I was on American Horrse.
Story, and I had shot all night and I had to fly back.
To shoot the wedding.
And so I'd shot all night, got on a plane, flew to LA. They picked me up and and I was coming straight to set to go. But I decided that the only way I was going to really be able to get through the day was to just take on an alter ego. So I put on the black wig. And the best part was that Jennifer Coolidge was there, right and at the end of the day she got on the on the golf cart with Nya and Heather and somebody else and she was like, I really love that black haired director.
She didn't know.
What an episode to direct.
It got me through.
It got me through that day, and you know where it was like I just all of a sudden, I was someone else.
Yeah, you needed some levity. That's the power, the power of drag. Yeah, that's right, right, it really is.
You've also had some other difficult, complicated episodes, like Shooting Star.
That was a tricky one.
You've had some really great ones. I mean, like I have a list here of like Frenemies, which we loved, and the wedding and obviously the series finale you got to do, which was such a blessing to have you there. But like, yeah, something like Funeral, which is kind of stranger, like Shooting Star was, I'm sure incredibly challenging.
Well, let's talk about that for a second. It's like that, you know, one of the things that I always try, you know, It's like I listened to a couple of paris Is, you know, and you know, Paris would say like he wanted to keep it simple, to keep it about the acting, right, and it's like I love that.
I didn't feel like I always felt like what I tried to do was let the content drive the shooting strategy, and you know, we really you know, it's like Brian and Brad and Ian would each do their own unique things and as auteurs, they could kind of go wherever they wanted. And I always tried to kind of, you know, use the inspiration that people brought in, right, but then channel it to and what the content was, what the story was.
And when they said they wanted to do.
Shots fired in school, right, it was like you really go down there and it's like.
How do we do this organically? Right? And I really upset.
The camera department because I went to the camera department and I told Andrew and Dwayne that they weren't allowed to come to rehearsal and I needed them to go outside and they couldn't be on stage.
While we were rehearsing in the scene.
Yeah right, yeah, wow, yep.
And they were so they were so mad right.
But if you remember, it was like and Jenna, you weren't you weren't there, No, it was you were on the you were on the bus, that's correct, right. I believe you were in trouble at the time for some reason.
Was I No, I was in the episode though.
Oh you were in the episode for sure.
Yeah.
Oh, I was just stuck outside.
You were stuck outside, yes, right, uh.
But the you know what we did was we went in and I just said, we're not going to rehearse, right, and I put I put a note in three different spots in the choir room right where it was like, Okay, when you hear shots fired, go hide. There are three places you can hide when you get there. If you don't know what to do. There's an order of events. And if you need to talk to someone and they're not hiding, where you are all across the floor and find them.
Yeah, oh my god.
Right yeah.
And then we brought the operators in and we put the operators and they all put thousand foot mags on, right, which is about ten minutes of film.
Yep, oh my god.
And we had a little you know, starter pistol, right, m h. And then we just ran extras. We ran background around the outside.
Of the thing.
Yeah, oh my god.
And we did eight takes.
We rolled out every single time, so we shot ten minutes and we all sat in the village and cried. Right, It was like we were so it was terrifying. Yeah, right, but we wrapped at lunch. We shot ten pages before lunch. But it felt like the only honest.
Way to tell that story.
And so the camera operators didn't know where to look, right, so they were having to find the story right, and you guys were having to find it in the I mean I remember you were out of your you were out of your chair up against the wall, right, and you were the filmmaker, right, But it felt like the only honest way to do that, Like if we it felt to me like if I had shot that conventionally, it would have felt so manipulative. Yeah, for the show that we were right, Yeah, so I should you know,
but it it wasn't. I wasn't trying to show off or just trying to make it work.
Yeah, And as like being an actor in that situation, because we were all also worried about how do you make this work? Like is this should we even be doing this? All those questions that you were saying, like, it's not really our problem, we just have to figure
out how to make it work right. And the tone set that day by you and your plan got rid of all those doubts and extra questions for us because now we had a plan something that we had never done before that was immersive in that way, and because it was new for everybody and sort of unsettling for everybody, you certainly pull up and figure out, we're going to make this thing work, and it's exciting and it's a challenge, and it made it so much easier to get into
that really horribly dark place of what was going on in that scene, but it was from like a working perspective. It was really really exciting in this episode that we were all really nervous about doing right, and it made it probably isn't the right word, it made it really fun because we were like, oh my god, yeah, it felt honest. It felt like we were doing sort of like a short one act play without any rehearsal of
like do we actually know this scene? Like that's why you put up those notes, and it really really helped, but it also felt safe of we by that point we had this great relationship with you. We knew you would catch us and make us look good, and you that day made us all feel like there, you can't do anything wrong, Like if the camera finds you, then just say you're lying. Then like just you were just
going to make it work. And we'd sit there for like ten minutes in that scene, which feels like an eternity because it's silent and it's dark and it's you're not calling out to do anything. Every few minutes you hear a background actor running through the hallway. It was really terrifying. But the way you set that up hopefully made it, you know, so successful for us to be able to operate in that it was fascinating.
I was proud of it.
It was like that it was one of those there were a few times, you know, it's like when I don't when we did the Beatles and Blaine came in to tell you guys all that he wanted to propose to Kurt right, and you know, it was like they've been broken up, he cheated on him, you know, And you come in at the top of it and it was like, you know, you look at it and you're just like, how am I going to.
Make anyone believe this.
Yeah, yeah, and it's a five minute like the way that I what I ultimately decided was that we couldn't cut right and it was completely choreographed. But it's like, you know, he goes to each person and it's like I need it because of this, and I need because of this, and yep. The way I felt when it was it was like, well, I don't know if I completely agree with this or this, but it's like, you know what, he's really committed, and I guess we should just help it.
Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, you know.
That was it was, And that was always the way I liked to approach. That was just like, okay, what's the visual way to tell this story?
Yeah, very clear, and it always felt like that. It always like your respect and it also makes obviously we knew you had been involved in the show from the very beginning, but hearing now about how you really helped or were there at like the birth of like what the DNA of the show became, so you knew it in a way that only maybe Ryan did, and you had because you have those early conversations because you auditioned for show choir, like you had this like really specific
experience to be able to do those things and make them work and just trust that the story was gonna somehow come out in a way that you wanted it to.
And always it was always with respect, right, and always with it was like always trying to just make it the most honest version of it. And it's like, look, it didn't always work, and I wasn't always right or like, but you know, I always remember in season six, it was like that first episode back put a lot of extra stuff in there, right to try to sell what I thought the story was. It was like I think Jim Rash came in to tell Leah, you know, tell
Rachel that she was fired from the show. It was like yeah, but but but we let him improv and he sort of really it didn't make the cut, but it was like Ryan was upset, like it was like it's gone too far maybe you know, yeah.
But there were always options.
Yeah, it was like it was always done in this way of like trying to uh honor what was there, right, it was like take on me, remember that we did the sketches, but it was like none of that was in the script, right.
It's like that whole the homage to the video.
Yeah, and that's the whole I mean, that makes the whole number Like that is that is what the number is about.
The comic strip into the Yeah so cool and everybody there. What about the final episode, Like that's not a small feat to have a series finale that you have to close out a store. Now, obviously you're on that journey with us, you're not coming in out of nowhere, you know, But did that feel like it had more weight to it.
When a two thousand and nine I always thought may have been the you know, it was like could have been the finale everybody you know, right, and it's like but but I'll tell you there were a couple.
Things about about the finale. For me, it was like.
I really thought that last line, that that thing that they posted on the on the wall, you know, it takes a lot of bravery to look around and see the world not as it is, but as it should be, you know.
Like to me, it's like that was the.
Show always right, like always pushing the way the world should be, not the way it really is, you know, and that always touched me in such a way that it was like that was worth it. Yeah, you know, and you know, look, it was a huge like I carried it like the way to the world. It was a huge honor to be able to shoot the last episode.
Right, It feels right too, especially you know, your involvement from the conception of the show.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But Brad could have done it, you know, it's like, you know, and and it would have been it would have been great. And but but I think that for me, it was like that moment really was the one that
hit home, right. It was like at that point, I think there was still it was like I really if you guys remember that opening shot through the mirror where we pushed through the mirror and it's like, you guys, some of you had to run around the other side of the you know, from one side of the stage to the other, and there were like doubles and and it was like we were pushing through the mirror and that idea of like pushing through our reflections and.
You know, there was some fun stuff there. Yeah.
Watching that episode is one of those cases too, where you have so much to do emotionally. It's not just what's in the episode, it's also six years that have led up to it, and because you have these time jumps where that's also something that I feel like can get off the rails pretty easily and quickly. And when we were watching it this time, it's so grounded and so moving or I think a lot of series finales do the time jump thing, and some work better than others.
And I was really proud watching it because I felt like it works so successfully. It still feels like the same show, where a lot of times when you watch a series finale, sometimes they do a big swing and it feels like you're watching a different show. So it's not satisfying. And I don't know how you did it. I mean, I think maybe you've told us, you know, the ways that you look at a script and try to make it come across on screen. But it was such a feat, I think, to be able to do
all of that. There's so much that happens in that episode, but everybody gets the moment. Everybody gets like a nice wrap up. It doesn't feel rushed, it doesn't feel like you're trying to get an eight billion different plot points. And it was because you know, our memories are terrible, but watching it, it was like, oh, this episode is so good. Yeah, it's great.
I'd have to say.
The one thing I did watch it too, and it's like the one thing that I noticed was like, you guys didn't really get your I didn't think you guys got a proper moment.
Yeah it's there, it's.
There, but it's not And I was like, oh, really, I don't. There's there's a kiss on the steps. Yes, right, that's pretty cute.
Yeah right, there's only so much time you have, like forty two minutes, you know, so.
I know, I know, but it was like it was funny because I did, I really did notice it.
I was like, oh, yeah.
No, I feel like we got our moment earlier in that season when we and I think you directed this too, if I'm not incorrect, having our favorite scene that where Arty and Tina say that they're going to marry each other. Oh it's the wedding. Yeah, and Arty and Tina sit in the choir room and say they're going to marry each other at thirty if Yeah, yeah, that's right. But that to me felt like Larti and Tina.
Really yeah yeah yeah, And that was also that that felt so different to film as well. I think, Jenna, you can speak to this, but I know I just keep saying how good you are as the director.
But.
That that was set up for a really simple scene felt so different where like you really allowed us like I felt like an adult and that you know, we're playing high schoolers, and it felt like maybe the only time being on that show where I felt like I was having like a grown up conversation with another character.
And I remember again like it was we shot out really quickly because just two of us, it's really simple, but you kept you would come in and like whisper one word to me or whisper one word to Jenna, and just kept it simple and it made it feel again like one of those moments I was really satisfying
as an actor to just get to do it. And it was about I felt like it was about me and Jenna in real life, like our friendship that we had built over the years, and you know, and it felt like you were just like respecting all of that. And like Jenna and I talked about that scene all the time because it meant a lot to us. And that is sort of arting Tina's wrap up.
Hmm.
Yeah, yeah, I never thought about that. Uh that's really Uh.
I want to go watch that again, it's a good scene. It's simple, it's.
Very but it's very grounded and honest, the most grounded because Ardientina can kind of fly up the.
Handles a little bit to marry Mike.
Like we know.
We were given a lot to do but therey but but yeah, it was like very grounded and very Jenna and Kevin ask if you will like it just felt really honest, right, Like Kevin said.
That's what we want, isn't it right, And it's like, and that's the it's you know, it's it's it is fun because it you know when I when I listened to Ian talk about it and like and it's like, look, it's like the funny.
I love the funny, and I love the Ian weird, right.
And the and kind of you know how he talked about season one and season six is being like his favorites, right, But it's like I love it when it can go weird and then you can really land it can just be honest, yeah, right, And because there is some we could we're all weird. Yeah right, It's like we're all weird in our own way, right, And I think.
So it's the beauty of the show. We've said it like something crazy will be happening in one scene, then the very next scene you're having a really serious talk about race, and it's grounded and beautiful and moving almost in the same you know, forty two minute episode and it.
All works the journey.
Yeah, yeah, And like that was the tightrope that the show constantly walked, and I think worked almost every single time most of the time.
Well, and it's.
Look, it's like whether it whether it worked all the time or not, it always tried.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, And it's like, I mean, it's funny because for me, one of the biggest I feel I felt like my big moment with you guys, there were two moments as a cast when I felt like, you really like, what are we doing? And the one was original songs, right, and it was like, sorry, but I told you guys all together and I was like, listen, we're gonna shoot this until you guys really decide. You have to love these songs and you have to lean in and sing them like you think they're the greatest things ever.
See when we tell you people who have been listening that we were really concerned about Loser like me, we were really concerned everybody knew.
Yeah, you could see it on our fas.
But by the way, it was like when you cut it all together and it aired right.
So it was one on iTunes yea how it worked, you know?
Yeah, and it was, but it was and it was that thing, and I had this feeling from the get it was like your faces.
Will sell it, yeah right, yeah yeah, and.
It truly it's like when you all of a sudden, it's like you forget you're not listening to the music anymore. You're you're feeling a thing that you guys are doing.
Yeah.
It was that and the and when we did the it was on my Way, you know with the Kroski, you know when when it was Team Suicide and they're getting married and Quinn and it was like there was a moment where everyone was like what I don't understand And I just remember being.
Like, you guys, just go with me for a minute. Yeah, just go with because we can do yeah, you know.
Yeah, And sometimes that's all you need to hear is like I got you, I got I'm in this with you. We're a team. We're gonna make this work. But you got to do your part and I'll do mine, you know. That's all we kind of needed. Sometimes was like, oh, all right, Brad's asking us to do something right now that we literally are not doing.
We're not doing anything we were hired to do. Let's remember why we're here. Do you have any favorite scenes or numbers that you got to either direct or edit?
I mean, honestly, you guys.
Truthfully, it was like I went into every scene like I want to fall in love with this scene.
You know, yeah, And it's like.
There were you know, there were I'll tell you one of my and I've given you a lot of them already. But it's like, so when they were going to do the first kiss between Blaine and Kirk, okay, we went in to rehearse, and I said to Darren, I was like, you know, Darren, like I remember my first kisses very well, and I remember always having a plan as to how I was going to do it or where I was going to stay, and and it just they never worked out.
So when you come over to sit down, I think you should scoot your chair all the way over next to him and sit And he was like, oh, no, I would never do that.
I want to sit here. And so but when he wanted to see was they were.
They were literally like six feet apart, right, And I was like, okay, great, okay, got it. I turned around and I just said to I said to Chris Bafa, light the whole room, get three cameras. This is going to be great because I knew he couldn't possibly kiss him from there. Yeah, right, And I just I didn't say any another word. I was like, you know what, we're done. We're not going to rehearse anymore. Let's just
go away. Turn the cameras on, and it's like when he's sitting there, you can see this moment's where he realizes he can't possibly get there right and see he has to get up and sort of awkwardly move around on the table and like leave.
And it was like it felt so.
Honest, I love it.
I don't know, it was just like we're done.
Yeah, yeah, gotcha.
Oh that's it, that's perfect.
Well, we literally I could we we have a thousand questions for you because we haven't seen you in years. Also, but we obviously don't want to keep you. We know you're so busy. We have to ask you if you listen to the podcast, you know, and I'm sure you've thought about it, but what is the feeling that Glee leaves you with.
So many feelings? But honestly, it's like pride. You know. It's like I just I'll always look back and I feel so proud that I got.
To spend that time with you, right, to spend that time. You know, it was like it truly, you know, it defined my life. You know, I learned so much. And it's like there were horrible things and there were great things, yep, but but we were all in it together for better or worse, you know. And when I look back, and you know, it's like for all.
For whatever whatever you thought or whatever the it's like when you look back at what we did, I'm just so proud of it.
Yeah you should be, I mean we all are.
But yeah, yeah, do you have you guys answered that question?
We're going to we have an episode coming where we have to answer this good.
Okay, good.
I might lift a lot of your answer, Brad.
Thank you so much for coming on. It truly would not have been the same to do this podcast without you. You are such a massive part of the heart of the show and for us and just really just shaped the experience on it. You know, behind the scenes and then also the story for everybody else. So we're just so grateful that you were on the journey with us.
Yes, thank you so so much for having me, guys, I really it meant the world to me.
Thank you.
It's great to see you.
But it was so nice to see you. I'm so glad everyone now can like feel you're sweet thinking here. This is a sweet man who is very talented and put up with a lot from us for a long time, you guys, and always made us look good.
Thank you so much.
Thanks Brad, Thank you, Brad, Brad Beaker. I can't believe that we couldn't talk to him for another hour, Kevin, because we probably could.
Have these director talks, you know, Brad Beaker.
And.
They see they do. They're the leaders. They run the ship. They run the ship well, I mean excellent excellence. We are working with the top of the line, top on.
The line, and Baker's fingerprints are all over Glee, like Glee would not be the same without him, and he I'm so glad. I'm just so glad he got to come on here or we got him. All of you could listen, because he's brilliant, he's so kind and so nice. Yeah, yeah, he really is. Thank you Baker for spending so much time with us. Thank everyone for listening. And you know that was one of the titans of Glee right there,
and that's what you really missed. Hey, thanks for listening, and follow us on Instagram at and that's what you really miss pod. Make sure to write us a review and leave us five stars. See you next time.