And that's what you really missed with Jenna.
And Kevin an iHeartRadio podcast.
Welcome to you, and that's what you're the miss podcast. Well today, Kevin, we've got We've got him, the.
Man, the myth, the legends. Telly is the Glee Club. Yeah, he is Glee. He is what made us like us Glee Club members show up.
He's the glue.
He's the actual glue.
He doesn't really need an introduction. If you know, if you know Glee, you know Telly. If you know the cast, you know Telly. But he was a PA that started it and basically created his own role in dynamic on the show as basically our our wrangler in corraling all of us fools together. But it was our strategy to keep Kelly around. It was I don't want to listen to who's that. It's not Telly. No, okay, anyway, here's telling kusagas enjoy. Hi.
Hi, Jenna, and I haven't seen you in forever.
I know, a really long time. How are you.
Oh, I'm okay, I'm good.
It's just okay's had a.
Great time in Thailand. Okay, back in the real world, I know. Is it hard to adjust back to this life. I mean, you don't want to know.
I'll call you after this, because I do want to know, in fact, and actually maybe I should. We should get lunch after this.
Oh boy, oh man, it's good to have you here.
It's so great to be here.
If anybody has ever listened to any sort of Glee behind the scenes, anything, seen any photos, then you know who Telly Kusakis is, because there is no Glee without.
T to say.
It's true, it's true, like you were such a vital piece of making the show work. You know, We've interviewed a lot of crew members and it's amazing how much weight everybody was pulling, because it really was this gigantic team effort.
Yes, yes, but.
Damn Kelly, you had a job that no one else could do well. Yes, and nobody nobody else wanted. You had to pass the torch personally to make sure somebody could handle us.
Yes, yes, that's true. That's true. For those who don't know, I started on Glee as a set PA, and typically on a TV movie that there's one PA who's dedicated to the handling of the actors, or the first PA, and so I was the first team PA. Hungrily for the first three seasons.
And you started immediately right. You didn't work on the pilot started. I did not work on the pilots. I am a NEPO baby. My father worked on the pilot.
And then when it was ordered to series, he was like, I could give you this job because I didn't have a job and I was twenty nothing. And then I was like, I don't know, I've never done it before. I don't know if I want to like chase around
a bunch of factors. I think what really happened, which was helpful for all of us, was that like, for the most part, everyone that was an actor on the show, or at least playing one of the teenagers, was so green, and I was so green that we kind of like worked out our own system how to be on the set, how to go to and from the set, because you know, it's like the ad team, the prepas are, you know, sort of meant to just like keep tabs on everyone
on the set. So it's like, you know, and I feel like, just because it was such a large group of people, like, yeah, we kind of worked out our own little shorthand our own little thing because we were all kind of like what the youngest of us was twenty eighteen and the oldest was like twenty nine or whenever at the time. So yeah, we were all the same age. We all had similar experience in life and work, and so it's just like, yeah, I kind of like worked my way in there.
And it made yourself it replaceable.
On many I wore many hats in that role.
You really did. You made yourself irreplaceable. Nobody would listen to anybody except for you. Yeah, And we kind of hadn't made it that way. So we were like, well, we'll just have Telly around and we won't listen to anybody else, so we'll make sure that they know that we need Telly.
We acted up. I think the only times we collectively acted up was if like you weren't there for some reason or like you were taking like if they had somebody else come in. We were not easy for anybody else.
No, And I think it was like a lot of you know, on there's a lot of hurry up and wait on sets, and and a lot of like a lot of the time you'll get an actual will get called to set at the right time, you know, but then there's eventually going to be some you know, the final camera checks, the final hair and makeup, so it's like you're never writing change when they're ready. No one's
ever really ready when ready is called. But I think because again there were so many it was like of you that it was like, well they're not going at so I'm not going to go, you know. And that was exact a lot of like false calls to set and like a lot of like, well you guys need to go now, and it's like, well do we really need to go now or or is it just going to be another fifteen people standing in that room doing nothing?
Oh god, it just all came back. Then it was like like my voice coming through would be like, okay, it's actually time for you to go. So sort of like and I always like employed the method of just like touching someone's shoulder or need making eye contact to say ever even to go do your job now.
I mean think your personality it was built for that because you know, you like to say this what other people tell you. But you are the universally most like last I've ever met.
Like, thank you, that's very sweet of you. Yeah. I I think I work best when just working with other people. And this is like working with other people because it's well I also, like you know, have no personal boundaries. So that's right, none of us did, which is great. So you know it'st important.
That was the most important.
Ye be there talking it out, working it out, figuring it out together just kind of like that's sort of just naturally how I like to be. And I think again, like another there was so much to learn in those first few years for all of us in so many different ways, and like so you know, I think it's
just like was always good to be there. I think like ultimately what ended up happening was that like I took on a lot of a role as like a lot like an emotional sort of, I took on a lot of like emotional I don't know what the term is other than like baggage, but it's not really baggage.
But like you know, as things come up and like tempers flare and it gets on to our sixteen and so many various things that happened that can you know, and then everyone's got personal lives for shit, you know, stuff's going on in your personal life, and but you're there, you are on set living as I'm sure you guys have talked about like scenes of fifteen people where only three people talk. So it's like, great, I'm so glad I was here all day to stand in the background, right.
But you know, it's like those things, there's a lot, there's a lot to take on, a lot to learn, and then especially once the show is like catapulting into this like insane stratosphere of of like same and just like everybody knows who you are now and you know, all eyes around Glee. It's like there's a lot of emotional tension that comes up with that, a lot of things.
I think a lot of what came from that. I think a lot of where a dynamic ended up in that third season especially was sort of just like being there to make everything, make sure everybody was like okay on that level, on that emotional yeah, and to just yeah, make things so smoothly, especially like with such a revolving door of cast as well, like on the special guest level and on just like the day playing co star level,
there's like tons of people. So I like really took on, you know the role of like being that first person that they meet at base camp, being the first person
that they see on set, you know, being there. Yeah, and just like you know, so that it so that nobody that I took it on personally, So it was like nobody that came on to be on camera, be they like a dancer or Carol Burnett, like, you know, I want them to know that there's someone here that's not the fact that that will show them where to go or tell them what to do, because it was really I mean that when that machine was up and running, it was like it was fast, it was big, and
it was loud, you know, so it was it could sometimes be really hard for so as much as I took on and loved being there, is sort of like the support for the main cast, it was like I also really did take on. Yeah, you did that role for the other cast of just you know, just being there, and.
There's a much bigger role than any PA I think on any other show has taken on ever.
Because I imagine that's not in the job description. Were like, it's like you're welcoming, and we were all very proud of what we were doing, and so it feels like you were welcoming people into our home and making sure like I'm going to be a good host and make sure you're taken care of, so like when you leave, you feel protected and that you had a good and safe experience.
And you know, like I think in a in general, you know, there's a lot of talk I think around Glee and in other shows and like other like outsiders looking in. It's like you think, like, oh, how is that. How do the cast treat this new person, or how do the cast treat this bring this other person? Like, yes, we're all humans, so we like should be treating each
other with respect. But also like it's not necessarily a regular actor's job to like bring in another actor and show them the ropes and like make sure that they're okay. And you know, like everybody has their own thing and their own laying to be in on a set, so it's like right, and like, I don't think anybody did it. I don't think anybody was overly like rude or didn't take care of people in that way. But you know, it was nice that I could be that somewhere, you know, fill that space in so that.
For sure, it's a good point that people knew.
That they were they could do their job. And then also right if there was anything else going on that it was like could be a safe enough place to just like talk about it, let it out, or at least just like recognize that not everything in life is like sunshine and rainbows and roads sometimes bad days.
I was just thinking, how that's such like an unquantifiable quality or attribute to a set. But I think that's wrong. I think it is quantifiable in the sense that you probably were the piece that connected all of these different departments. Obviously there was overlap with you know, Heather Knew, Brittay and Hannah and the dance department, and obviously Zach and Broke and we were close with them, or makeup and
hair or any Kosters that were coming in. But you were the singular person going between all of those things, right, and the reason why we probably are also all felt so comfortable, I don't know, mixing or being like we're all on the same level here. It's not like, oh, we're the first twelve people on the call sheet. That doesn't mean anything. We're making sure everybody is, you know,
having a good time and like we're hanging out. We're all young, and at the same time, you could do that and be the emotional support for everyone but also make sure the ship was running how it was supposed to be run.
Yeah, and also like I noticed two and you know this.
I don't think we'll ever go away. But there's like there's this attitude around actors sometimes on a like on a set with the crew, where it's like they're like there's special attention given and sometimes they're like handled in this way that's like, you know, you hear these horror stories of people living like you can't make eye contact with this person or like you can't do this that, and it's like whether or not that happens or is real, it's like there's still sort of this attitude where it's
like for the crew where it's like okay, but the cast is somehow like unapproachable or like leave them to themselves or like you know true, And that's again part of just like being respectful of people in their jobs. But I also think, like to what you're saying, Kevin, like maybe I had a hand in helping like everyone more accessible to everyone. Yeah, you guys needed to talk to someone who It's like I don't know who this person is on the crew, but I need to get
this done. It's like, oh, I can link you up with that person. Yeah, Vice versa, because you know, it's like there's a lot of people, you know, people like if a crew member had like a friend or family on set and they wanted to like meet you guys, all talk to you guys, it's like they'd always kind of like I remember a lot of people coming to me and being like how should I handle this, and
it's just like, you know, like break down. So I also like felt like, yeah, you did conviously breaking those walls down and making it so that like everyone everyone can talk to everyone here.
And it makes me think of like we go into crafty and see these beautiful drawings, like who did that, right? Jason?
Jason?
Right, Jason did this drawing?
Oh my god, really, I just found my teena card that Jason.
Yeah.
It's like I don't even know. I don't know if that's normal on set, but we were all the different departments were fully just intermigrated.
Yeah, and again I think that like had a lot. I'm not going to say that was I was the reason for that. I think a lot of it. Most of it would probably was what you referenced that sort of like Glee to me was like everyone was being called upon to go above and beyond like every day, yes, every department that is, there's a commiseration there or like a camaraderie where it's like we're all we're all being pushed here to like a limit. So it's like I think that bonds you as well.
You said, like the emotional like by season three, because we we did season three, watch season three recently and we're talking about how the wheels were falling off.
Oh yeah, and it was just where you guys were out in your rewatch.
We're in season four now.
But season three it was a lot of like oh my god, like, yeah, did we block this out of our memories? Were we even like conscious of what was happening because it was just so hectic, But you were there as like the emotional support, which I know is not part of your job description, but I don't know, like how do you think that impacted you or does
still impact you? Or like a lot was being asked of you about and beyond of what a normal PA job would be, and I don't think we knew any different that maybe that wasn't fair to you because we were all best friends and so there was that weird line of like what we said, like being a coworker being a best friend, and it was fully, it was very blurry like there was no separation.
Totally, totally yeah, And I think especially by that point, well, I guess my first thought about that is like at that point, there was like we're dealing with like we're going on the third year of like some intense like exhaustion because we've gotten like season one, we had that big long break between the first like the first twelve and the back nine, but then it was like back nine concert tour, season two, concert tour, season three, and so it's like at this point we've.
Had the same schedule as us, minus like the press stuff, but like you saw us through all of those moments as well, which nobody else did. So I think like, and I think.
When you mix it up like that way with the show and then the tour on the off time and then we're socializing as well, I think it's just like you start seeing like you're all feeling it, you all know it, right, It's like you know what we've been through professionally. And then I mean when you're spending all their time together, we also just know each other so well, we know what's going on in each other's lives. We know those stresses, and so I think, you know, I
think it was just a natural progression. I think as far as like taking on more of that personal stuff or like being available for that, like just seems like a natural progression because it's like we're friends, we're and and I know what's going on. It's not like your friends that have to work and you are on the weekends and you're sort of like, how was work this week? Like, Oh, it was all right.
It's like no, I know that I intimately knew everything.
I intimately know what's going on, Like I know who's you know, I know if there's tension between two cast members. I know if someone's having some issue at home like yeah or Pritner or whatever. Like we're all aware of all that stuff. So I think, yeah, I think that
was just like sort of naturally happened. But I think what also came with that was like by season three, for me personally on set, like there I would I had lost some of the like more traditional PA responsibilities, like I was now no longer like in place of you know, like locking up doorway and like right like handling the walkie talkies like I had kind of graduated to a place where I could be on set with the actors, be at base camp with the actors, like
be running in between and doing all those things that I needed to do that were maybe not part of the job description. So it's funny here there's like a bit of a balance in that, like because I was maybe taking on more nuanced personal like matters or like emotional heavy lifting. Yeah, it's no longer doing some of the.
Physical annual labor, yeah.
Or like you know, so it's like their balances out in that way, like with time comes seniority as well.
So it's really crazy because I think it's like when things happen incrementally, you know, over time, you don't necessarily realize it. I was like, yeah, I think the reason I probably like sort of came out to everyone was because of you, Like you helped me sort of like you know, get there.
You also had no choice.
I had, it was but it was like I didn't have for example, like a lot of gay friends. I was around a lot of gay people. You were very close, we were very close in age. You were someone who felt so secure and free within themselves. You created this I don't know, probably subconsciously, unbeknownst to me, this really safe space and someone to like look up to and admire and in a way where because growing up in the entertainment business, I thought this was something that would
always have to be hidden. Obviously, you know, Jenna and Amber and Chris already knew, but you were the next person. And I think once and like, how it even happened. I remember we were in Vegas. I remember sitting on the floor. There was the family bed and I was sitting on the floor charging my phone, and You're like, so, Kevin, what's up you like guys? Oh no, you said, did you.
Say you wanted to tell me? Yeah? And I'm like, uh, like fun, what do I do it?
I'm like, yeah, I guess I like dudes.
Oh my god.
Yeah wow.
But I can't I can't probably express the ways in which that was so helpful, just being around you, being able to like truly be myself at home and at work. And I think, you know, the whole set felt like that, where I mean you saw it on the actual episodes reflected where like everyone was welcome, everything was celebrated, and
then behind the scenes it was even more so. I think where the crew was so accepting of each other and of us, and everyone was like, you're going to work with like some pretty tough dudes, and like they loved this show and they loved the gage so much, like people that you would necessarily like I probably wouldn't have felt comfortable like being myself in front of it was like that didn't matter, and so like it was very educational for me, and you sort of like held my hand. I think through all.
Of that, Oh, thank you, Kevin. I'm glad I could
be there. And yeah, I mean I think and I think again, that's just like I think that has a lot to do with, like, you know, those lines being blurred between like personal life and professional life and and a lot of times I think that's tricky issues and yeah, I can be but I think a lot of times that it creates maybe those environments you're talking about where everyone's a little more comfortable to be themselves a little bit more or like you know, and then ultimately, like
I am against the idea of like holding back any part of yourself anyway, So I think probably my natural tendency is to like draw that out of people. If there's yeah, for sure, holding something back.
Which is sort of like you and Meg's ended up being like the perfect duo because she very much I think echoes that in her own way, like everyone trusts her, Yeah, nurturer, which is I felt like she was the correct successor.
Yeah, I really did need. That was a funny thing too, because you know, luckily with being in a position like a pare, you're easily replaceable, but like in the sense of like because you were not when we come in and like there's it's it's again. It's all those like once you know the ropes, you can kind of get
to the ropes anywhere. But as funny as I like was moving on from this set, I was like, oh God, who's gonna like this just can't be anyone like trying to be a successor in that you know, it's someone who's yes, it's really not you know, and it's like
there's a lot of leadership that goes on with it. It's like it's a funny position where I always said it was like on set I had to tell people what to do without making it seem like I was telling them what to do or like it was their idea or it was you know this sort of or interrupt conversations without being rude, Like it's just these weird little soft skills that you need, yes, and ultimately end up in being like being able to command the room or
get I mean. And this was not and it's not even a way of saying like everyone was acting so crazy that they needed someone special to like rein it in or it's like no, just like the sheer volume of people like fifteen afters touched up and on.
Set, yes, is like at the same time, it's hurting Castle more.
And it's like not any that's not the normal. That's not the normal thing.
So yes, it's not, it's not. It was a lot to take on and then especial, Yeah, you was crazy.
I was actually thinking about this the other day because I was like thinking like, oh, Kevin must be like he must almost he must be like almost thirty two or something. And then I was like, wait a second, he's only like a few years younger than me, like he's thirty five. And then I was like when we met and you were like twenty four, It's like that's what there's like. So it's like I remember being like,
oh my god, I'm so much older than this kid. Yeah, learn and dah da da da and it's like and then jenneb you being like two years you know in between oh she knows you know and I are basically the same age, but like the young kid is not. And then now I'm like, okay, no, we're the same age.
I remember feeling like all of my twenties, I was like Chris and I felt like I'm always around older people.
Oh I'm always Oh my god, Wow, okay the kid comes out.
Yeah, well in the same age.
Yeah, yeah, we are.
So yes, I was young when I thought I wasn't young starting out fly. I look back now and I'm like, it was a baby child.
Now when you were when you were passing the torch over to megs d after all those we did we pushed you. No, we're encouraging you, but tell us, like, I'm curious to hear in your mom mind. Did you hit a breaking point? Was there a point where you're like, I got to get out of here, or what was it that made you How did you get to the next level? In the Ryan Murphy camp, well.
What happened with my so I guess it was very early on. It was like season one. The producers were very much, like I got really good feedback from them, and in that like we want you here, we want you to work with us, we want to promote you when we can. We don't know what that is or what it'll look like, but that was sort of like part of the discussion for me really starting early on, which was great. At one point. I think it was actually season at the end of season two into season three.
Matt Hodson was Ryan's assistant at the time, and it was being promoted and he you know, so that position available. I talked to him about that. I was still at that point, so to answer maybe the breaking point question, like at that point, I was still like into being on set, wanting to be on set, like being Ryan's assistant like had its appeal, but like, wasn't weighing out
the on set job at that time. It's funny, I have lots of like sliding doors moments of like what if I had done that, Yeah, right, would have changed.
But anyway, so so I think then and then I guess it was midway or you know, towards the end of season three that the script coordinator was fired or left or something and so that position was available, which I didn't really know a lot about the position, but after finding out that it's sort of like a you know, a liaison between the writers in the production office and you sort of handle this the formatting and proofreading of the scripts and the continuity of the show and things
like that. That definitely felt like also in my wheelhouse as skills were concerned and seemed appealing. And so by the time that came around, I think with the season three and just feeling like, yeah, maybe I felt like there was enough appeal there where I was like, Okay, I can leave this behind. I think maybe I feel like also i'd maybe like hit a ceiling on set
where it was like what more can I do? As fart like there, you know, because it's like taking on more responsibility on set is like a whole other DGA, like a d thing, right, which was like the path I wanted to go down, right.
You sort of like maxed out what you could do.
Because it was like a new thing that didn't really exist. It was like its own thing. It kind of felt like it had grown to where it could grow. And then yeah, and there was something really exciting about for me about like taking on new responsibilities in the writer's office, like getting closer to the writing process and in turn just learning a lot more about actually about how the product, how production works, you know. So it was so it
didn't I didn't reach a breaking point. I think I reached a point where I think with like with anything, there's like when you're doing the same thing over and over again, and there's like maybe some resentment that builds up that was like the job, not so much of
the people. And then so yeah, I think I was just ready to move on because I also loved the idea of having regular office hours and not because the thing that is so wearing about being on set in a crew is that you're there the whole time, right there all day long, right, and so it was like, yeah, so it's just like a lot of time and so and.
You're there before us and after us.
Yeah, and for the scene. You know, it's like if we have you know, acchoir room scene in the beginning of the day, but then the rest of the day it's just a little start. It's like, you know, you're there for everything, Yeah, all scenes with one or two actors to the big group numbers. But I think a lot of the reasons maybe I didn't take that first opportunity to like get off set. There was a little bit of like fomo too and like part of the
group and like being there for those times. And then I think when it looked like I don't know, maybe it just happened this way, but like it sort of felt like after season three anyway, like with this, you know, story wise, with the half of the group going to New York, and then like it felt like a disjointed different thing anyway. And at this point again it was like I was secure enough with all of my relationships
with people on set. I was like, okay, well and we're all still working on the same project, so it's like I'm not right. It's like we're gonna maybe spend a little less space to face time together and that's okay. And and ultimately, yeah, it's just like going to every department and getting their time sheets and just those little like as it's been three years, like I can't keep doing this.
I remember us having conversations with you. We were like, Telly, like we want you here, kind of like you kind of go and I remember you like really taking your I remember at the end of season two and you're considering that, and it also just felt like, well, I also want to be with like these people I love every day, and like you built this position into like what it was right, and it was like your thing, Like this was like fully your position that you created
out of nothing on set, and like it felt like there was pride in that. And also it's like going to do something else, you have found something you were really good at and you were irreplaceable, and it was sort of like, okay, then I have to just like even though you're in the same production, you're working with other people at your already know but a different capacity, it still felt like that would be scary and terrifying because it's like.
Yeah, there's felt like something I think too, Like I always had it in the back of my head, like I know this isn't going to last. Like I know this isn't going to last, like you know, Like again, being an EPO baby, I was very exposed and from a very early age of like the realist the realistic nature of of TV and that yeah, there's you know, scarce times and there are good times, there's everything in between, and that like you know, like so to try to
enjoy it and know that it wasn't gonna last. But then at the same time, there was this feeling of like, oh, it's like so precious and if it ever changes, then what's going to happen? Like it needs to be this way. And then I think that that maybe was more in the water at the beginning of season three, and then towards the end of season three, I think it was like, you're already something should change here in order to sustain this, because this isn't sustainable.
It's not.
Because you started at the very beginning with us and went on tours with us that nobody else in production did like that until Meg's joined. But what was that experience like seeing I don't know the public or like the growth of the show because you were in that bubble where we did the first twelve and nobody saw it and then it went from now we're doing an international tour. Like from your perspective, what was that experience?
Yeah? That was it was wild. It was yeah. So you know when I started, I you know again like I've seen my dad, my members of my family like make shows and then they are great and then they disappear and then who knows. So it's like I knew this was happening in a vacuum. I think it was the day that we were shooting Stay a Little Prayer that I saw that because I had never seen a rehearsal. I hadn't seen it whatever like I did. I'd maybe read a script at this point, but I was sort
of like, okay, like what is this show? And then like saw it and saw the like like the way that it was like on the page, it was just like they've performed a song. And then it was like, oh no, like these these are like singers and dancers who are like Corey Group dancing to a choreograph song like and like the way that it worked in the
story too. I was like, oh, this is really going to like hit in a way like I was like, so I knew from them that it was going to be like wild but interesting, and then to see the rest of the stuff we did that season was just like wow, and no one's even seen this yet, like this is right. So I think that going from there. I mean I remember being on the first tour. It was the last leg of the first tours, was like Radio City Music Hall and Ryan would call the show.
You know, we'd have like a little moment at the beginning and everyone would make a speech, and I remember I was like, I'm going to say something here because this was like the last you know, so this is the last leg of this trip and where Radio City Music Hall and I referenced and I said to all of you, like I remember being like in that dark auditorium watching You'll Do Somebody to Love, like over and over and over and just like as an audience won
and just like loving it so much and feeling like it was so special and so intense, and then like and look where we are now. Now you're performing for thousands of people at Radio City Music Hall. Like that wasn't lost on me then, and then it just kept compounding,
like the next year. It's like going from I think always going on tour was like a way to check the temperature of what is happening out there, because yes, we all had Twitter, and Twitter was new, and it was like there was definitely a sense there of like what the fandom was like, but it was like to be to be like physically barricading your bodies, just like going from a van to a hotel lobby and like hearing the screams of that arena and like I remember
Indianapolis for some reason was like it was the best wow smelloping and just to you know, so to see that and to have, you know, to have literally witnessed it going from this like little thing and like sneaking into rehearsals in the tin shed and like right, oh, and like getting to know everyone and like knowing what people's backgrounds were and like, Okay, this person has a lot of experience in dance, and Jenna has the experience in theater, and like you, Kevin has experience in music,
and like and that, Like I always thought that was really cool how everyone like brought a little bit of something but that of their own, but like the like speed with which it like became one cohesive thing, and like it became like emblematic and iconic in this way of like you know, you're characters were, and I think like a lot of that had to do with the show and the costumes and everything, but it's like there was just this like thing where everyone became it became
this phenomenon and then it was that and it was like unstoppable.
Hmmm. I remember on tour there was one city. I don't know if you remember what city it was where we were able to go see the fans. Like most of the tour, we weren't able to go and meet the fans. It was just impossible. There were too many people and it was dangerous. There was one city there was chainling fences around the parking lot and somehow till they got a golf cart, yes, and you round. I think it was Chicago, and we were like waving at the fans and we would drive up and we would
sign through the chainling fence. We would sign people's posters.
Maybe it was I don't know, the Chicago we were able to like actually interact with the pot It was.
You know. I think I remember that because man was tweeting me about they have like shirts.
Yeah, gifts for us, right.
Yes, That's the other thing I'll say is about sort of when I realized too that like maybe this has gone beyond like what was expected. Was like also a radio city music hall, and I like was like having a bat. It was a stressful day and there was like some shit going on. I was like I just
need a second. I went out of the stage door and I like sat down on the curb and just like looked at my phone for a minute or whatever and just like took a breath and came back in and like checked my tweets and it was like four tweets being like oh we see you Toddle or like whoah,
like people are tweeting me and having recognized me. And then it was like the next year it was like people were screaming my name as I left the arena, or like I would walk or and everyone would scream and ask me for autographs or they'd be like I have gifts for you, and it was sort of like, uh, like what's going on here? Like it's very like if you know you know, but also yeah, where it was like how do you know who? I'm the guy who like it's cool? No, no, no, you know, I think yeah
it was. It was It was definitely nothing i'll witness like I you know, I'm lucky to have witnessed it. I think it was a totally singular experience of life to like have like been with the show as it went from you know, it's infancy into this like into today where it's still this thing. It's like on Wheeldy growing like massive things that's just like he's creating and
keeps reinventing and living on. And you know, I don't think there was a day that I tried to that I took it for granted that I was pinching myself throughout the whole time, because it was just, Yeah, it was definitely in the back of my mind, I had that like, this is never really going to happen again.
Do you have any numbers to stick out in your head that you remember when you you were watching while we were shooting that, or anything that was of note or yours one on.
I definitely got a lot braver as far as where I would be and what I would be doing during the filming of the seas because like the first season thing, I was literally outside the auditorium, like making sure nobody walked in a lot of the numbers. But so and you know, things like stealing away for a rehearsal when you guys were in ursal and stealing away and then like someone's missing, so like I'll stand in for someone for a whole rehearsal. So it's like, right, a lot
of that happened for me in season three. And you can learn choreo total, we can dance, yes, thank you. It is one of my many talents. Give that. I remember standing in for Corey for Empire State of Mind, so I knew that whole dance, so it was like
I could do that dance. I always always, always loved the Treble Tones trouble Tones, and they're any of their numbers and have distinct memories of dancing in the wings with both to those numbers when ye just and to be like upper body of choreography too, yes, exactly, I'd love the new directions, but yeah, geographically challenged people in that group, which really maybe limited the scope of choreography.
But I'm calling for Trouble.
Tones was always fun because it was like, oh my god, you're moving your You're moving your neck and your hips all the same time. But you know, I think there was always there was always something really special for me about like being in the auditorium, especially if it was like dark and I could just like sit there and take it all in. Like I mean, any time the amber had a solo, I was just like sitting there completely wrapped yea.
Mm hmm.
But you know, I think and so I think I just like lots of little and fun memories and always what was always great and exciting about it as a PA and as a script coordinator was like seeing it on the page, how it was written and what it was, and then in the first part of the show, being like so surprised with like whoa, I had no idea, like the set was going to look like this, so that there was going to be pyrotechnics or like everyone was going to be dressed in this costume or whatever.
You know, It's like it's kind of that stuff when you're not in a production meeting. You know, no, that's all happening. And so the excitement of like showing up on set and being like what is it going to look like? It was exciting or like hmm, or you know, like I remember with like True Colors, it was just
like they sing True Colors. And then like showing up and it was like Jenna as it was your solo and like I had no idea, and it was like, it's just so exciting to have that like and then it's like, oh, like listening to it for the first time, yeah, for the hundredth time, just like you know, like finding that excitement in it each time. So I have like lots of great memories of watching the numbers and participating in the numbers when I could and always yeah, yeah,
and just like being there. I was, but you know, always loved the group numbers. The big splashy one Somebody to Love was always, you know, I always have fund memories of that one.
And yeah, that's a special one for sure.
And then yeah, on the tour, I like worked my way into the safety dand so that was always a nice big number Riverdee Mountain High. It was like willing to watch. Also there was the aspect of like watching everyone else, like when it was solos or duets, It's like watching everyone else's reaction was always really fun, especially if it was like a special guest star or whatever like. So it was like, right, numbers were always a big fun thing to do. A lot of other there were.
They're huge undertakings a lot of the time, so they were a daunting But it was also especially those rehearsals, for its very very exciting.
Speaking of guest stars, yes, you got to interact with everyone, like yeah, and form close personal relationships with some of them, that's right.
I mean seasons four or five and six, I was no longer on set, so I while I did meet some of those guests I didn't really like interact with some of the most The last special guests are on set that I like was working with was Woo Pee Goldberg, which was like so cool. I was like, I literally still sometimes I'm like what she was Also like it was crazy that how many people were all the time.
But yeah, again, like I think I approached that in a in that same way of like they're just like they're they're here just like any other actor or any other day players here. So like I went in with just like that's you know, it's always helpful to like have what you're gonna say rehearsed. And on that show, it certainly was just like a very routine thing to like welcome someone to set. But yeah, I think I never was I never really was like intimidated by anyone.
So I think that helped in like helping to establish that that dynamic. But also it was like so exciting.
I mean, your bond with Gwyneth was hilarious.
Gwyneth loved you.
Gwyneth and I hit it off really well, which was amazing and hilarious, and yeah, and it was always it was again, it would just come out from like hanging out on set and just like we would all just be like Gavin and with each other. And it was like there were some some start some guest stars who you knew were like there to do the job and that's great, and they're like they've got other shit going
on and they're in and out and whatever. But it's like some were like also just there to hang Yeah, totally and wanted to and they're sitting there in the chairs between takes, like getting the goss and wanting to know who's who.
Yes, and yeah.
So she she was definitely there. She was into play.
She was there to play fun. And you know, also it was really cool and kind of like humbling to see a lot of these huge stars that you've like admired for your life and then they come in and to see them kind of like because you throw in like music and dance and and then all of a sudden they're you know, back at sort of square one, and you can see how nervous they are or how like this is so far out of what they normally do, and it's like it's sort of this humbling thing where
you're like, oh, yeah, like are people too all people that are terrified and dancing, you know, you know, whatever it is, it's like, it's like so just to like be exposed to it on that level too, was always really yeah, humbling and reassuring that just like nobody here really knows. That was another thing too about Glee. It's like you had to kind of maybe realize a little later, Like and certainly as I'm listening to episodes of your podcast and hearing from people like Ryan, it's like none
of us knew what we were doing. Everyone was flying by the seat of their pants. Yea, you know, and that includes like everyone starts, that includes the guest stars. So your pa, Yeah, then you do script coordinator for how long? So I started script coordinating. I think the first episode I script coordinated was promised source So that was end of three. So I did a few episodes of season three, and then I did all of season four, season five, and season six as script coordinator. And season six,
which was I think only thirteen episodes. I was actually in the writer's room for those episodes and wrote one of those episodes of the six I did have the credit of writer amazing technically by the end, which is very cool. Moving on up, Yeah, it was like it was a It was very It was a nice place to end up just in terms of like the scope
of my own like path on the show. It felt very accomplished, but also like felt like, yeah, I sort of like when I left Glee moved on to Scream Queens and was there, it sort of felt like, oh, okay, I'm now at like the bottom of the next like there had been a graduation of sorts where yeah, I like moved you know, being in being in the writer's room with Glee was super fun super different than being
on set, very uh yeah, a very different environment. And it's funny because, like I know, it felt like Ryan like maybe checked out or wasn't involved as involved in the later seasons, certainly on a production level, but to the end he was like still coming into that writer's room and pishing the stories and telling us what the songs were going to be, like coming in and just being like it's going to be this episode, and it's going to be this, this, this and this and then
and it's like so it's like to the end, he was still involved, and he read every script before it went out, and he looked at every page, every scene. I think there was maybe one episode that he did not like personally read and sign off on before it
went to production. But you know, so he yeah, so he was always still involved to whatever degree, but to be in that writing room and see like how it worked and how he clicked and how the shorthand, even though it was the full staff at that time, like the shorthand he had with Ian and with Brad and with everyone really and sort of and like ultimately, you know, because I had I don't have. I didn't have a lot of writing experience. Didn't want to be you know,
like stepping on any toes. But what was cool about Glee is the music and the fact that like that's a super really easy thing to pitch when you're like starting out in a room you're like where you're like you might feel a little bit funny about pitching a storyline or like especially when so much is handed down from above, Like it was. Having that sort of like that very basic element of the script was like a really good, like easy sort of like playground to play in.
Yeah that went because you got I got the sense of a pitch falling flat, I got the sense of hitting I got you know, like I got songs on the show that I pitched and that you know, never would have been on there had I not, which is great, but but it's but it's just songs. It's not like it's not your own ideas and your own writing, which you know as a writer that that definitely comes up
that sort of those feelings of rejection. But m yeah, So it was definitely a different pace being in the writer's office and a whole different beast than being on set. But it was What was nice and similar is that I feel like there was a chance to sort of put my own stamp on things as far as like how the job was done. It helped that I knew everyone in the production so well, because right definitely you're you know, you know the right people to tell the
right information too. But ultimately, I think it it was like a way for me to pivot to working a little bit more directly with the you know, creative producers and get a little bit closer to the writing process and eventually in in the writing process, and you know, so that was sort of I don't know, looking back, that's sort of just like a really dreamy track to have taken.
Selfishally, I loved it because I would come hang out with you. It's alternate between the loft and megs. And then I would come to you and you like, have this couch in your office.
I did.
It was the best. I would disappear. Oh god, it was great. I loved those days because I would just completely disappear.
That's the great thing about working on a Ryan Murphy shows. Every office is just decorated so beautifully, so gorgeous. The taste. Adore the taste. We've got, the taste we have.
Got the I have two questions for you.
Yeah, let's get hit me. I'm in the hot seat now.
WHOA.
That's the different master of games as well, that we would play hot seat, we'd played Mafia, all kinds of dream wedding.
Yes, if we're all just tactics to keep you all in the same place, and the word they loved to play them today exactly.
Is there anybody that sticks out to you in your time on the show, in the crew or on set every day that just sticks out to you because you you were like the the meeting of the minds for everybody, And I'm just curious you like really encountered everybody on the day to day.
Well, yes, I did feel very strong connections with lots of people, and even if they weren't strong connections, like yeah, I was interacting with almost everybody, and to have so much deep love for so many top of mind, it's like got to be my girls. Aaron Kruger, mccash and
Kelly Mitchell makeup department heads. Yeah, because you know, work euro based camp, working closely with the actors, ads and hair and makeup are kind of always working together, and you know, they really kind of took me under their wing early on as like a young green pa and really kind of like helped me understand what my role was a little bit better, especially in terms of their
roles were. And they were also I mean just amazing people to talk with, like incredible experience in the industry, right, and so just yeah, lots of like I just have memories of lots of late nights of you know, picking their brains, having them tell me stories just like of their youth, of their early experiences like cracking jokes, having a good laugh, lots of dancing together, and then like mornings in the trailer just like sack whatever, talking about
anything and everything and just sort of hanging out. And like also I was always just so in awe of the work, their work that they did. Yeah, incredible, she could be said of Zach Woodley. I mean Zach was more of like a rock star kind of like I'd like cool kid on campus vibe. Like never did I feel like he was ignoring me or anything. But he
had that like a bit of an elusiveness. So it's like there would be times where Zach would pass by and he'd be like, you come with me, and we'd like go out and have a cigarette, and I was like, oh my god, Zach wants to hang out with me. This is the coolest thing ever. Yes, Yeah, so Zach
definitely I had. I always cherished time spent with back on set again personally, but also just like always in awe of like how quickly he could work and how quickly he could adapt, and you know, the ways in which he interacted with with the cast or whoever it was. You know, that's all stuff that like I picked up on.
And you know that's the cool thing too about being on set as a PA is like you're kind of in the middle of everything, but you really get a great idea of like what every department does, what it's possible for and how they do it to the point where you know you're you're able to witness like everyone's impeccable work from like one vantage point and that's really really cool. Yeah, I mean there was the list could go on and on, but you know, those are some
top of mind people on it. But every day was like it was like summer camp or school in this amazing way where you could just like it's like, wow, we get to hang out again tomorrow all day and like I'm when I talk to this person or it's like you know, if it's like this from Electric or you know, Joey from the Camera department or whatever, it's just like I'm gonna sit and learn more about these people because I'm spending more time with them than I am with my own family. So true.
Second question, what is the feeling that Glee leaves you with?
Oh God, how was time to have for that one? There are many feelings that Glee leaves me with. I think most of all it's pride, Like I'm so proud of myself for the work I know I accomplished, but you know, more over everyone else, you guys, especially like those people I just mentioned in the crew, it's just like a sense of like you like a deep satisfaction and pride of like wow, like look what we did,
like what look what we did every day? And yeah, so I think that that it's among many many other feelings. There's definitely just yeah, a strong sense of pride.
It's a good one, Thank you, a good one.
I just got TEARI eyed.
I can talk about the anxiety, the anxiety if you want that.
For another episode.
Yeah, we watched the breakup the breakup episode, and there was a flashback of Corey and I sobbed Telly. Yeah, not to bring up sad things, but after Corey passed, you were in the writer's and I just remember you texting me because we were all obviously very off, you know, like shit was weird. Everything felt weird. It sort of
felt like we were trudging through deep water. No one really wanted to be there, right, we know how to be And I remember you saying, it's just so weird to keep showing up to the same place where we spent the most time with him, and like we have to, right, you can't like you can't leave escape it, right, and we're like we're still within the same four walls every single day, And I remember in one brother was like, oh my god, he's right. That is so sad and upsetting.
But the flip side of that was, Oh, thank god, I'm surrounded by these people who know this specific experience and there's.
So many of us and you don't have to laying it to no.
And it was my first time, you know, dealing with grief in any sort of way like that, and it was nice to be able to have people around me who could voice it in different ways, verbalize in different ways, to explain things that I didn't know how to identify within myself.
Yeah, and I think like those are various experiences with grief in my I've always learned and noticed that it's like you do learn like everyone does it a different way, and there's something you can kind of learn or pick up on from everyone that year that's with you there in that In that case, it was it was a strange time season four though, is uh. I feel like there was a little bit of like creative freedom in
those episodes that they put in three. So I wonder if on a rewatch that I might not like season four a little bit more than I remembered liking it, just know, I'm really big swings. I don't know what are your impressions.
So people are telling us it's not that good, but so far we're what four episodes, and I guess at this point, yeah, I'm really liking it.
There are big swings, but I think they're pretty successful thus far. Yeah, yeah, we'll see.
This is like all of the new It's very like Lost when Lost season four was new People last four wards? Where are what we do? That's not like Lost at all?
Right, you're totally right.
So Kelly texted me, I don't know, probably a year ago now, being like, I've been listening to the podcast and you've been getting some things wrong. I did, and I don't know if you have a running list or if you remember any of this.
And then I did. I sort of did, but then I didn't. I wasn't listening consistently enough and then and it wasn't that things were wrong, it's just that Okay, So you know, the three of us often are speaking together on the phone, especially you know around Christmas. Yes, we're having lots of convos, having lots of face time. Anyway, So there there was something about there is something about listening to your podcast that makes me just feel like I'm on a conference call with you, so being like
where you guys will be like what was it? Like was it this? Was it that? Like where were we? And I'll know the answer as all.
Are you yelling at us out? Yeah?
And then so there were just like some examples of that, you guys being like, yeah, maybe it was this, and I'm like, no, no, it was the other one.
That's funny, that's really funny.
There's been any likeagious inaccuracies.
I wouldn't be surprised if things just little things.
Well, no, Telly's got a steel trap.
You know. Now you're in the now, you're in the later, the latter half when I was in charge of the continuity. So maybe I'll have some more great some more. Maybe So I'll listen. I'll listen to a few and see if there's anything. But I was thinking, and I will just add this. I don't know if this is even something that you want to hear, but I was thinking about how I was so good at the continuity right because I was like I was on set for all
these scenes. I know exactly what who was talking to whom and about what, Like no, this reference is wrong. It wasn't that. But there's this like one thing that
still haunts me to this day that I missed. Oh yes, tell us please please, probably coming up in the Thanksgiving episode season four, is there's that scene at the prom Maybe it's at the prompt anyway, it's the end of season three with Rachel and Quinn in the bathroom, and like, someone gives someone a train ticket, doesn't Rachel give Quinn a train ticket to visit her at visitor whatever? Yes, So many episodes later.
Q gives Rachel, Quinn gives Rachel the ticket.
Okay, so later in the Thanksgiving episode it's referenced and where Quin's like, she never even used that train ticket. I got her, but really it was Rachel who got it for Quinn and not Quinn who got it for Rachel. And I made that mistake and I went all the way to the show and I don't even know if anyone ever caught it, but I was like, this is my this is.
My glaring, this is you publicly outing yourself.
I'm responsible for that.
Look, there are worse things. Yeah, telling the worst thing. I wouldn't I wouldn't worry too much about it. I hope you don't just sleep over it.
I hope you seen really well tonight.
Chest There's no way.
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
I'm glad we could provide you a platform for that.
Yeah. My salvation is here and it's always been us long.
Well, You're welcome.
So much. Anytime. I'd love to talk.
And I think it'd be really fun to do an episode recap with you.
Fabulous you know which one. I'd love to do that.
Okay, great, look at look at for and see if there's anything that sticks.
Out for sure. Thank you so much for doing this. Bye bye bye, Oh Kelly.
Oh sweet tea. Man. I honestly it's like without Telly there is no gly No.
I don't I honestly don't know how anything would have gotten done, and it scares me to think about. Obviously, the rules were sort of the structures were a little bent when we were making the show because Kelly did feel so many different obligations that are not part of a normal job description. And if you had someone come in who was very by the book about it, I
just don't know what. I don't know what that experience would have been like, because it's it's hard to separate the joy that you see on screen from the joy we felt behind the scenes on set, right, and I think a lot of that was created. A big part of that was Telly, but it was also every crew member where we were all.
Just well, Which is why I think when people say a lot of guests on the show come on and they say it, you'll it'll never happen again. Like I it was a really special crew, a really special set. I think that's why was because it felt like a family and everybody did integrate in a way that doesn't always happen on set. And it's also there's not always time for it. But we were spending time more time
with our crew and our cast than our own families. Yeah, and so when it's a lot of like to you know, two hand or scenes onlike you know what I mean, Like, it's it's a different dynamic.
Yeah.
So but you're right to your point. I don't I don't want to imagine a Glee without Telly and without our family, you know.
Yeah.
I think it also speaks to like the type of show we were making. I think it had never really done been done before in this way. I think people felt really proud of it, right, and it was something their whole family could watch. It was something that they could be proud of us punning awards.
It was very.
Successful, right, and there was no when you are singing songs every day and getting to watch those performances, I think it does something for your like psyche of Yeah, we may have to be here fifteen sixteen hours a day, but.
Look what we're doing.
Yeah, we could do something really fun.
And then also on top of that, once it came out and you could see how positively it was impacting people right and representing people, that's just the whole other thing. And so I think it was just I think Telly was right to say pride, you know, is a great word for it, because all the departments felt it.
Yes, Ian used the same one. Well, thanks Kelly for coming on. I hope you guys enjoyed that episode with our team. Man, thanks for.
Joining us, and that's what you really meant.
I came more.
And finally I gotta tell you thanks for listening and follow us on Instagram at and that's what you really miss pod and make sure to write us a review and leave us five stars.
See you next time,