And that's what you really missed with Jenna.
And Kevin An iHeartRadio podcast. Welcome to You, and that's what you really miss podcast. Mister Shoe. We got him. He's here. We finally got him. He's here, he's here, locked and loaded. We have a long talk and it's great. It was just so nice to catch up. You know. That's the best part of this, isn't it, of course a reunion. It is genuinely like I got you, now get You've got you in my grasp just a FaceTime and then we're recording it exactly a really great interview. Really,
I'm honest and wonderful. So we'll let you just listen to it now and you don't have to listen to our voices anymore. Well, kind of hi, friends, it's good to see you.
It's so good to see you.
You know, you look wealthy. I'm looking at you. You look rested, and I feel like and you look rested. You look that's like wealth You look good.
Yeah good, I like that, you know. I feel I don't feel yeah, I do feel wealthy. I feel rested. I don't know about rested, but like my heart is happy. I my family's great. Yeah, I feel really, really good. So thank you for noticing.
Well, it's so nice to see you. Thank you for hanging with us clowns.
Thanks for inviting me. I didn't even invited me. I was gonna say, like, it's about timey inviting, but you have invited me before and I.
Just have a few times. No, that's okay. It's hard to get a hold of you, but you always respond, which is so nice. And before we get into the glee of it all, you're doing Chicago in Japan and did the whole announcement in Japanese, which was mind blowing. It was really impressive. I saw it. I was like, oh, of course he did. Like I was shocked, and also it was zero person shocked. At the same time, I was like, if anybody can figure this out.
Uh, you know, I thought to make a bigger impact in terms of ticket sales, especially when like you're in a culture that they do speak English a lot there, but there's you know, a predominant probably most of them don't speak English. So yeah, I wanted to speak to the people. So I called my friend Charlie Okumura who lives in Tokyo, and him and his wife kind of put I said what I wanted to say, and they kind of like put it together for me. I sent it back to them and they're like, no, this is
what you can. They basically gave me work for a word, like how to pronounce it and stuff, and so it.
Was very convincing. I feel I thought you were going to say like, oh, yeah, I've been learning, I've been learning the language, and like I've been working on it, because it was very good. I mean from what I the little we know, but well, yeah, I mean but awesome.
Yeah, thank you. I mean, you know, I love language, you know, doing that light in the Piazza show on Broadway, like how to speak how to speak Italian. I just love immerse myself in language is such a beautiful challenge. But then you get to challenge yourself in trouble when you actually have a good accent and you start can speak a few words. Then people just start like talking to you like yes, sorry, sorry, Oh.
Have you spent a lot of time in Japan before?
Yes, I have. Actually I do a lot of concerts in Japan. Yeah, it's been. It's it's a lovely market for me, I think for all of us. I think, you know, Glee was well, very well received over there, so you know, that opened up a lot of places to go and to perform. So I'm gonna be doing that show. And for me, that show is kind of to see where I'm at in terms of live performances again,
because it's been a while and since twenty fifteen. Yeah, and so for me, it's just to kind of say, like, Okay, you know, I wanted to give myself a big break to you know, be there for this, you know, pivotal time in my children's lives. But for right now, I feel this call to go back to the stage, and I just don't want to jump right into a Broadway show and be like, oh, this is a lot. So I thought it would be a good, like kind of stepping stone to yeah, see how I feel about it.
I have a feeling we know what that's going to be for you, but I do. I do love it. But it's smart. It's a smart move. But that's awesome. It's very exciting. Okay, mister Shoe, it's been a while and everybody's been asking for you, and so we just I think we have to talk about Glee.
Okay. I just want to preface this my memory is horrible, and you might spark some memories. I'll be like, oh yeah and stuff, but yeah, yeah, I am. I'm really interested to where this conversation is going to go.
So you know, yes, I think it's important for everyone listening, mostly for us because our memories are also not good. So it makes me feel seen.
You talk about this all the time, you know, and yeah, I'm sure.
We're reminded, but it's it's so don't feel bad if you don't remember things because we do not I won't. Yeah, Okay, we're watching things like that. We're into season three now and there have been full scenes for the first time where like I am speaking or singing and I have no recollection of being there zero and it is.
I saw when that started kicking in for sure.
Yeah, like every day is the same. We don't know what's going on anymore, and you're just like shooting once like yeah, yes, yes, have you watched any Glee since you since we finished?
Oh I haven't.
Wow.
Yeah, I'm still triggered by don't Believing though for sure forever since the end of time? Uh No, but I haven't. I'm actually waiting my son, Reveel, who's six years old now having the experience of seeing me being recognized in him, kind of knowing me as a famous person. It's so weird. It's so I mean, I hate it. I hate it because it's like, you know, I want you to love
me for me as as your papa. You know, I don't want you to be influenced by any these and that's kind of like why I wanted to get out of Los Angeles as well. So it's it's it's weird kind of navigating that as a parent. But it's still, you know, as you all know, it's probably it's still very much a part of people's stores and upbringings and the zeitgeist and all that.
Are you recognized a lot more? Because I feel like when I leave LA, I'm recognized way more than I am with in LA. People actually come up to me. Here everyone's you know, sort of jaded or used to seeing people who are on TV, So like, does it happen I feel like it must happen to you a lot more there.
Where I live, it it actually doesn't. Everyone's very respectful. I can see like the acknowledgment of it, but rarely do the people come up and say anything to me. It's usually the most I get it is overseas. H. I don't know what that is, but yeah, it's it's mostly overseas, but here like small town. It's cool.
That's nice. Now, I can't remember we watched the pilot together back in the day. You we came over Lee and I and we all watched it together in between waiting to be picked up and shooting the pilot. Can you remember, though, you guys are watched shooters. Yeah, but I can't remember. Did you have what was your audition process like or did you just get offered?
No? I definitely didn't get offered the role. So my audition process was just a regular audition. I was doing so specific on Broadway at the time, and I just got an audition. I went in the room to put myself on tape, and so they would send all the tapes to LA and I sang on the straight relive of course, my go to song, and then I did the scenes and from there, I you know, Ryan and Brad and Ian and some other producers. They came to
New York to have like the New York audition. I think I was doing a play called Naked Girl in the Appian way and it was this. The woman playing my mother in the show was this brilliant actress named Joe Clayburg and she was nominated for oscars and stuff back in the day, but she took a long hiatus to raise her kids. I don't know if you know Lily Rabe is one of her daughter. She's a she's phenomenal. She's she's passed now, but she's She was someone who
was like really like the figure of my life. But she had worked closely. I forget what she and Ran did, but I can't even she said the story, but she said, when you go into the audition, just flirt with Ryan. I was like, what me, And She's like, you know, just just just flirt, just just be you, just be flirty. And so that was my like going in. I just felt like I'm just gonna, like, you know, just like give him compliments, you know, and stuff and it and
it totally worked. He was like he was just like loving what I was doing. Uh yeah, he was like I remember one thing, he complimented my shoes. He was really my shoes, like we're like these motorcycle boots or something.
And we know.
Of course, when I said, oh, those are.
That's a big compliment.
Yeah. I don't think he's ever called me on anything else in my life, but but the boots were a big part of it.
Okay, So yeah.
And then from that AUDI, I had a really good feeling about about it, and they flew me. I think I was the only one that flew in from New York for this for the network test. And I remember before I went into the room, you know, I kind of my agent was kind of saying that I was the guy, but you never want to know that at the time. It's some pressure on you. But Ryan came and had a conversation with me before I tested, and
he said, this is yours to lose. He's like, he's like, we all want you, but this is yours to lose. And I don't know if that was exactly the exact phrasing, but that I was the guy.
Just don't get up because we want you to yea.
And I I believe I was shaking, but I I, you know, I have a lot of obviously live performance experience, so I went in there. I felt pretty good about it, and uh, but it been in my head. I kind of I remember saying, I bet you he's saying this to every person who's auditioned for this part. And I think there was two other guys in there as well. But that's how I tricked myself to be he's just smart.
Smart.
But yeah, then I auditioned, I went, oh, oh, so you know, I think you know the story. But between my first audition and that network test, I learned how to play some over the rainbow in the mm hm that was that was kind of like my new audition song. Uh and and of course that didn't help them. My fingers were like cold, my oh.
God, that was another challenge to it. Yeah.
I didn't really set myself up but but but it was but it was right and then I went down I remember going down the parking garage at I think it was at Disney the Words where the uh the test was and then uh my agent called me and I got it like right away.
Whoa that was quick?
Yeah, thank god. It was like the waiting is that.
I think mine took like two hours to hear and it was two hours it was. Yeah, mine was like ten minutes because they had to get in touch with the other person to tell them they didn't get it. First I was with him. I was with him, Yeah, with the other person, yes, because we were all flying back to New York. So who it was, I'll text you right now. Yeah. What's crazy is is he's so so talented. I'm sure working so much more chalm like it was. It was a full because now he's like
doing he's got his own journey exactly, exactly. Yeah, he's got his own journey. Okay, okay, okay.
Yeah.
So that was that was basically it. And then uh and then there was like a while to wait until we actually started shooting it, and I remember it was it was challenging for me because yeah, I wasn't South Pacific and I had to get out of the show. I had to ask the producers to let me out to the show to shoot the pilt, which was a month.
And that's amazing.
It was amazing, you know, Lincoln Center, they were so incresible.
So nice, I got it. Some people have never let you out though, Like I was also in Spring Awakening at the time, and thankfully Jim Carnahan, who cast it, was casting Spring on this side, so or it was like so they were all includes about it. But that's lucky us. Few you also were, you were twenty nine when you got it because you turned thirty right at like the last day, the last day of the pilot, which is crazy to think you're basically right where we
are now, Like that is mind blowing. Like I don't know I was twenty, but you because I think you played our teacher. I automatically looked at you like you were like you were, yes, like you were at least twenty years older than me, right, not that like we all treat each other as equals, like we're all around the same age. But it felt like I looked up to you in that way, like you and you are my elder. I have to like follow you. That's crazy. I'm five years older now than you were when you
started the show. I huh, I'm going to go. You guys carry on.
Well that makes you feel better. I'm fifteen years older than that day.
So look at you. You got a family smashing it. We had Ryan on this show and he said that the role of mister Shoe was originally written with Justin Turner. Did you know that?
I didn't know that. No, I never knew that piece of information.
So we all found that up together. Yeah, yeah, did you think that was true?
Or was that like like he wanted to like to get.
The reverse engineered that Maybe no, but I would believe that.
I mean, he was hot at the time. But how old was he? Well, yeah, I guess he and I are kind of He's like a couple of years younger than me.
But yeah, but and look, you guys are like, you know, similar types. Like it would make you know, but I think the move to like not go with Justin Timberlake was like or else Clee would have never been what it is.
You know.
That's that's a great point.
In Jenna, like because it was you know, the show was because nobody knew who any of us were.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you had just In there would have been like the Justin show, you know, It's just it would have been a totally different vibe.
And then to think about like what we went through on that show and how the trajectory of his career would have changed, like we would we wouldn't have known the Justin we know today been able to put out all you.
Know You're So album. So that's interesting too, right, Lucky for us it was, you you know, like it would have been such a different I can't imagine the show without anybody that was I'm sure everybody says that when they do their projects or whatever, but like it all
just we know it worked. Like you can't go back and be like, oh, what if this person did like well and it worked exactly became like phenomenon that I did with all of those pieces that were in it, and if one person was not there, especially you, you were like the anchor of that whole. Yeah, I mean in so many ways, like it went beyond just you being mister Shoe. It was like you were the sort of like adult in the room. To us.
Always say that because I, you know, knowing what I know now about television and like being number one on the call sheet and like the leadership role that you would want that person to have. I feel like I let people down because I didn't I didn't know any of that stuff back then and I didn't know what
it meant to be. But at the same time, like there was so many egos in that in that you know world that I don't feel like stepping in and trying to lead the company in a positive way would have been very beneficial to anyone, because you know, there they were like fighting back against that. But but yeah, I think if I was going into this now, I think I would have done things a little differently.
Yeah, but I don't think you. I mean I didn't feel it down by you. And also because you were in the adult role, which was a little bit different, like within the group, like Corey did take on that role in a way where you were kind of seen as like the adult and kind of like a father figure,
if you will. I mean, it's weird to say that now because we know we're all like similar, very close in age, but you know, like a father figure and age, and you kind of had your like your own trajectory and journey on the show, and then you know, we had us on the other side of the room and we're going through a completely similar and yet different experience, And so I think you're right, like it maybe not would have not been beneficial in a way that was
like is he preaching at us? Is he talking? You know, like there was some inequality that kind of Corey had with us that also helps in him leading by example
and leading in the ways that he did. But I felt like you're still a leader when you stepped in the room, like there was an energy that like we looked to you on an off screen But I'm just curious, like looking back on your experience now the show and being the adult, like what was that like for you And do you have different reflections on it now being so from it.
On being the adult in the show or just being on the show in general.
I think being on the show in general, well, it's.
Interesting, like like spitball. And since we're talking about this, I felt like in the beginning and the way the show was kind of pitched to me was that it was it was kind of mister Schuster's journey and like like it was like in the first few seasons, it was it was a lot more adults, you know, and then the shows the show changed to be something else. But for me, I felt like I wanted to be involved with with everyone, and you know, we all would sit in video village. We all had like you know,
it was a million cast chairs all the time. But then slowly, I just I'm kind of like I'm an only child. I like my alone time. I slowly, as you all know, started like to to distance myself from the kids, and you know, I would always be in mister Shoe's office and that's where you are, like in my own kind of space. And I was also you know, I was trying to do other stuff. I mean, like Chris, you know, he was writing books and books while he
was doing there. I was going off every like two weekends, like going off doing my solo concerts, and you know, it was I don't know, I was just stressed. God that, like, our bodies are not designed to go through that kind
of pressure. I mean, we had a full time job, more than a full time job, and then our job was promoting the show, and on top of that, trying to get one foot in front of the other and your your own reality and your own life and you know, your relationship with yourself, with your friends, those are kind of and then you know, going off and do these concerts on the weekend, and then I don't know, I all the energy, the positive energy that was put into us from that show was so beautiful, and I wanted
to give that back to the people because I so appreciated like them and fans and wanted to kind of live in that and to be you know, filled with gratitude for that. But I don't know, And then there was all this other stuff too, you have, like these news speeds coming out like bashing the way you're playing your character, or you know, people trying to tear you down, and you know, that got interesting, and I found myself like building this armor, you know, and trying.
To to.
But not but trying to protect myself and not completely shutting out my friends and family and everyone, and and all of this has had a huge impact on my life. Oh, some super high highs, but also some really devastating lows. I mean, something I'd never really talked about but on the show was like I really like was so stressed, like broke into like the craziest psoriasis.
That I know, but it was it was like I didn't know who Wow, Yeah, I.
Think it was just everything building up and and for me that was just like the physical manifestation of just like what I was feeling I think inside. And it got to the point. I remember there was a few episodes in particular, like I remember watching it back at the time and being like, oh my god, like they
had to do so much. I remember, because it was like the siris was everywhere in my body but my face was okay, but then it slowly started coming to my ears and then on my eyelids, and then Kelly Mitchell, the makeup artist. You know, she she did her best to like cover it up, but at the end of every day she had to take it all off and like skin would come off the backup so painful and oh gos it makes me like get emotional. It was
just it was like, so, yeah, it was really challenging. Wow, Like it was like I loved the experience and I appreciate it for what it was, but it was it was. It was really challenging. It was hard to put our bodies through, you know, sixteen hours a day and then you know all the other stuff we had to do on top of it. And not like woe is me because it was so totally big opportunity, but but yeah, we were all there. It was it was like it was like a war. You know.
I think that's something like I never thought about from your perspective, even though we are like not too far off in age for me to you at least that decade of lived experience and like you have worked a lot, you've been on stage, you are able to view the success or like what it means, the value of it, the pressure of being number one on the call sheet.
I your perspective was probably so much different than ours in a way because we were sort of like these asshole kids who were like, this show is super successful, we're all super famous, and like this is hard. Where you saying like you did sort of like create those you created that alone time, that actual space for yourself to try to like get your head right to also then capitalize on what's happening on the weekends and going
to these concerts. It's such like a thirties mindset of let me value this experience for what it is and also the meaningfulness of it, retain and like take on that responsibility of the mantle of what this is and what it means to me and what it means to people. And I don't think that was something that we necessarily I think we did to an extent to the best
of our abilities. But hearing you say that, I do think you probably understood it in such I don't know, a deeper way than we were able to at the time. And like seeing that come out through like the psoriasis, and we're because you're always like this, if anyone knows you, you're always so calm, so chill, and it's like nothing's affecting you. But at the end of the day, like you are at the top of the sheet and like
this is it became this gigantic, gigantic thing. So of course, and like to get any to get a job period in the entertaining business is like a great thing. It's hard, and then you like you end up on this you get the job, You get the job, and like you get the part on the job, and it's like you originally knew like the show was supposed to be like Will's Journey, So it's no wonder that that happened and
that like you felt that. It's just you know, it's interesting to have to look back and like, of course I didn't think about what your experience was, like you, it's interesting you.
Say that stuff that have hearing you say that brings up some other things for me, just like I A, yeah, yeah, Like I love the first two seasons because I felt like I had so much stuff. I felt like I had so much, like just juicy stuff to like get like sick my teeth into as an actor, as a singer, and then and then uh, then the other seasons it kind of became like I was the exposition of the show. Like, this is what the show is going to be about
this episode, and this is what we're going to do. Everyone, like in my big speech I have in the beginning.
We used to laugh about those because you'd come in it would have a huge dialogue about nothing.
It could be like connect to it. I was awful at memorizing it because I no connection to it. And then all of you were just not paying attention at all and maybe not everyone's stuff.
And I just like, yeah, it was.
It was challenging. It was really challenging. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And and and I don't I don't know if you two know this, but I I actually was trying to get off the show really yeah. In season five, I h I asked to be like, be off the show because I was just like I'm I'm I'm no longer being like used and like you know, yeah in the way I wanted to and and no disrespect to the show, but I was just like, I was just like I
I And also we are at a height. I was like, maybe if I get off the show, I can go do something else to a movie or and they they agreed to let me off the show, and then Corey passed and then they said they couldn't do it because you know, the two main guys on the show.
Of course.
Oh wow, So yeah, it was it was interesting, interesting time.
How did that affect you?
I obviously I understood. I was like, yeah, I get it, and you.
Know, trying to.
To reconcile my own you know, wants and selfish needs with the grief of losing an amazing friend. You know, there's a lot of just mixed emotions and stuff. But but I'm a professional. I showed up, I didn't get my job, and it was a good pancrease.
So yeah, I think I think we all felt that way at some point in our not that you know, we were number one on the call sheet and you know, we're told this this story is about you. You know, this show is your journey, but like we all felt underutilized, I think at some point in this show, because exactly there's a lot of a lot of please there's a lot of storylines, there's a lot of Yeah, there was a lot of stuff to do, and.
I think I think I took it or so like I was bad and that's why my storyline kind of went. But then I look at the demographic of the what the show ended up being. You know, it's like, you know, they don't want to see mister shoots.
I want to see so I mean, right, right, is that why you secretly have held a grudge against me because I started rapping more than you did.
Didn't even I would pass that torch happily. You know.
It was like no, no, please, no, I can't do this, Like why do we have to wrap? We are not rappers. This is you were the two last rappers of the crew, which is saying a lot.
I thought it was a one off for me. I was like, okay, great, you know me too.
They're like, oh, you guys could do it. Though. It's like sometimes that is a thing there was sometimes you didn't want to show things you could sort of do because they would just have you do it all the time. That's right, Like this is something I can do behind the scenes to make people laugh, but this is something I need to do in front of millions of people.
This would be a special talent on my resume that I never wanted to use.
Absolutely, And I also maybe lied about yes exactly, don't make me do exactly hulu hooping.
Oh yeah, I definitely.
Yeah. There was the one episode where you did you pulled out every tool, you did thong song and you were break like you were sliding around. I remember seeing you that episode where like Emma is talking about getting married and you're helping her and you rapped, you sang, you did eighteen different styles of dance. You swing, swing, danced with with Jane you did. It was like the
craziest episode. We were like where was Matt this whole episode and you were like in the rehearsal studio because you literally were in every number doing something different, like like, oh, Matt can do everything, so we're just gonna have to do everything in this one episode, which which.
Was I think worked out for me because I think that was my submission episode for These in Golden Globes, which I got nominated for, so I think that.
Was worked right. It works right well. You were being utilized and you could show all the different things that you could do, and that was so cool and really yeah, really awesome. Do you feel like the armor Do you feel like the armor that you put up that you created during Glee? I feel I feel that. Do you
have you had like corrective experiences in the industry. Do you feel like you have corrected that or do you feel like you've taken that with you and feel more guarded, Like what is that like for you now?
I think I've just recently, in the last couple of years, kind of come on the other side of that. And I think it's thanks to you know, talking to professionals and doing the work and on myself and finding because I think the insecurity has come from a place of
not enoughness, not feeling like enough. I feel a lot more self love than I've felt in a long time, and you know, I feel and also just just experiencing, you know, how people come up to you and you know this is a big moment for those people, and it's almost easier to just be like yeah and just go with it, be nice and cordial for like a couple of seconds, and then be on your way. And then instead of being like, oh no, I don't really feel like taking a picture, and then they feel bad
about the experience, you feel bad about the experience. So it's just I think, just going through life and learning what it's all about. But yeah, I think I think the armor has definitely gone down. But also with the armor going down, I'm more of a realist about the situations that I'm putting myself into and knowing what to expect, because you know, I've been in since situations where I just didn't think things through and and it turned out
bad for me. So I think I just need need to go into situations a little more prepared for what I'm walking into. And I think that goes the same thing in life. But I think I do that a lot more.
You also got to do two really cool things. You got to sing one of your own songs on the show and you got to direct. How are bost of those experiences for you? Yeah?
Wow, Well, singing one of my own songs on the show was really cool, like a really just great experience. I was just so you know, tied to the music I was creating for myself and and and it just also testament too because you know, that's the song was
so personal to me. But the brilliance of the writers and how they just incorporated any song into the show when it's your song, You're like, oh wow, yeah like that, you know, it was it was, it was, It was really interesting, and directing was a phenomenal opportunity and what
a great experience. And I I think I became a better actor and a better uh better teammate overall in terms of how everything runs and how every cog in the machine, every department has its own kind of thing, and I had I got to connect with all these different departments and and seeing and especially our show because everything was so last minute. Seeing the professionalism of people like when they're under the under pressure like that was
really incredible to see. I wish I had the full experience of it, because you know, a typical director will go in and have like at least a week to prep. On our show, we didn't get They're not starring, you know, right, no, But then you know a lot of people didn't didn't get the scripts until like the day of shooting, so there was no prep telling it. But the advantage I had, Yeah, the advantage I had was I knew all the crew. Everyone,
I had my back. I felt so supportive even with the cast, like everyone was just like, how can we help you win? And and yeah, I learned a lot about just also writing and because one of the main are the biggest takeaways was from Ryan when we had a meeting before and he said, uh, the biggest part of directing is the transition from the end of a scene to the beginning of the next scene and how you tie those two together. And that has been just like instrumental in even just acting of how I do it.
And I'm doing some writing and stuff these days, so that like just little kidments have really carried through from the experience. I don't know if I'd want to do it again. I don't know if I was like I want to be, if I really was going to be invested in directing, I would want to, you know, learn the lenses and learn the angles, and I want to be Alfonso. You know.
Yeah, So but.
That's that's like a whole nother lifetime of you know, in the world.
Totally yes, Yeah, but you were. I mean, we just watched that episode one. It was great, and there were you can also see like your stamp on it, or there were some extra like pushions and whips of like really funny shit and shot in a way that hadn't
been done before on the show. And then do you think, Yeah, And I've had that conversation with my friends who are directors too about if I get asked if I want to direct, and I see the exact same thing, you just said, however, you pick all that shit up along the way, right, and you surround yourself with people who do know what they're doing, and if you have like the vision for it, and all that is to say that if you you know, don't stop yourself if you
want to keep doing it, because I think you were naturally quite good at it, and.
I think like anything we saw, yeah, like you see, like we saw enough bad directors and we saw enough great director to be for me to feel like, oh I can I can at least be in the middle of somewhere, you know.
Yeah, So I felt.
Confident in that and yeah, and like I don't I don't want to like to my own horn as a director, Like there was a lot of hand holding in.
That experience, I mean, a perfect place to do that. Yeah, yeah, it was.
That's why I wanted to do it right. It felt like my back totally. Yeah. But I feel though for those guest directors that just go into procedural shows and Okay, here's everyone who knows each other so well, and.
You're supposed to be the captain of the ship. Yet you're coming into some on somebody else's ship, you're driving somebody else's ship. Basically, you don't know.
Mister Shuster, you don't know like how I was directed to do.
This thing exactly. Yeah. Yeah, A good guest director is it's a very It's a specific skill as a director to come in to somebody else's house and be collaborative yet still be a leader. Yes, walk that tightrope. I am in charge, but I'm also respectful of what I don't know, and like you all who are here every day, like that seems like an unwinnable feat. But we we, like you said, we worked with some great directors who were amazing at that. It's amazing to see.
Yeah, And I don't know if we were the easiest cast to.
Oh, I'm sure we were not. It's a really nice way of putting it, Maddie. And there were a lot of us, and you're adding musical numbers on top of it. I mean, they remember our names. That's like a win right there. It's like they called us by our name, our first name. That's a lot of people most of the time, remember oh gosh, oh my gosh. Ah. Yeah,
where the this is? After season two when you said that you're the adult storyline seemed to dwindle in comparison to Actually, so we got questions from fans, and Hitchcock brought in and he said, how do you feel when many of the adult actors on Lee were not featured as much? So as his question, that's my own how when that actually started to happen in real time? Like, could you tell there was sort of this shift? Yeah?
Absolutely, there was definitely a drop off. I mean it was you know, I felt, like I said before, I felt like, is it something I'm doing that I'm not. I'm not showing up and and giving the performances that that are worthy of me having more scenes. But I knew the audience of the show, and I knew where the ship was kind of being directed and and tailored to. So that was really short lived. But honestly, I I appreciated the time off. I had a lot more time myself,
So I was like not mad at it. Right, it was I feel like Glee had its top or its explosion into the into the world, and then slowly I think it started to come down off off its you know, away from the sun.
And there's a direct correlation. There was less mad and there was less success. So maybe that's maybe that's what it was.
No comment on that one, but no. But I honestly and that was like when my relationship with my now wife started to kind of intensify. And so for me, it was it was like the perfect storm was like great.
Timing and right, yeah, it's not bad at it.
And I was able to go off and do like more gigs and I even I think I did a movie in there somewhere.
Yeah, so it was you did. Yeah, you're expecting that's right. It's funny because for people who don't know, like, you know, those musical numbers they take like seven hours, you know, on a good day, like it's a seven hour formula. You shoot it, and all the different camera angles are
pretty you know, set in their ways. But when Matt was not in the numbers and doing the mister shooting where he's sitting in the back of the auditorium watching, they would call you in, you know, to get ready and to come in and you know, shoot your stuff. And sometimes we'd be behind the ca you know, in front of the camera onto you and sometimes we'd be like, oh, Matt's here, he's in his trailer, he's been here for seven hours, and you just be waiting. Yeah, that is brutal.
Did you just learn like, oh, I mean, like we all kind of knew, You're like, this might be a really long day. I don't need to be here. How did you fill your time making albums or not? Right? Oh my god?
How did I fill my time?
I don't just I just I became a good napper.
I'm not an Apple at all, but I came and became a good napper on that show. I think I was playing I was playing music. I had my in there and I was I was like, that's when I really started to kind of get into that instrument. I'm looking back, I was like, oh gosh, I wish I had filled my time was so much more productive. Like Chris. I'm so envious of Chris, like the way he just kind of did his back there. But I I do have to say, I'll tell you my longest time waiting
in the trailer room. Oh god, eighteen hours.
No, I gotta leave it. Wait, Can I guess the episode?
Yep?
Was it Super Bowl?
Yep?
In Long Beach? You're student stuff in the field and stuff all day. I waited eighteen hours and then they said, oh, we don't need you. No, I did it didn't even use me.
Oh my god, Oh my god. I think there were a lot of times like to what Jenna was saying that, I think he was probably waiting not seven hours, but like twelve on the regular because we'd see you, probably for blocking in the morning, and if we had two musical numbers or there was like another seat, like you'd only see at the beginning of it and at the end of it, and they like, have you go away, and then it would be a full day would happen?
Yeah, Well, I became better at asking to Lee because I didn't live very far from the studio, so I was like you just I'm you know, five miles away. Just give me a head like an hour heads up, and I'll be back.
That is nice to Eventually we built that rapport with the eighties and things trusted that we could come back. Some of us, yes, yes, not the ones who transfer how to go pick up because they slept through their alarm in the morning. Did that ever happen to either of you? No, No, it never happened to me. It was always such a huge fear of mine. Though. Okay, so we've been rewatching the show, and like you and Sue in those first three seasons are just it is
pure communic goal that I mean, all of it. But I think we have to talk about you your experience working with Jane, because you guys have such incredible chemistry. The you're so far on the end of you know, the spectrum, on each end of the scale, like it really it just works so beautifully. But tell us about working with Jane And how did you not laugh like all the time? Did you just get used to it? Comedic legend makes you think.
I did laugh all the time. I was laughing. I ruined so many times because I'm not old.
Together, Okay, okay, good to know I was laughing like.
All of the Yeah, she was a godsend, Like I mean, just like we became like really really close on that show, and we still we don't talk as much, but like we still you know, communicate every now and then. And
I just I love that woman. And and for me, as you guys like looked at me as the adult and you know, the kind of that figure she was that for me, and she was that person I was like, oh, I need to like look up to her and see what she's doing and and and yeah, so I I I loved working with her, and I don't know what it was, but I made it my mission because I was always, you know, looking up takes and laughing. It was my mission to make her do that in a scene.
And finally, I don't know which what episode was or anything, but it finally happened and she and I broke her and I was like, yes, I'm so proud of myself. It was like such a moment of like a complishment.
I was just like, yes, yeah, wow, but like there's a deep love for that woman, and uh, and I know she feels it too, Like we we just really respected each other.
And yeah, we became really tight on the show, and it was one of those things where you know, we would hang out outside of the show, going to dinner with her, and I wanted to ask her a lot. I feel like I asked her more questions than I did anyone else. I'm just curious about her journey, and you know, she's very self deprecating and just like doesn't think she's as amazing as she is, but she's. Yeah, she's someone I really look up to and have learned a lot in my life from her.
I remember one of our first scenes with her because we did not get to work with her, especially in the beginning, very often. And after that scene, I was so it was like a terror because I didn't want to like this comedic legend. Yeah, I didn't want to miss it the scene and the other half was like, oh my god, I'm on the edge of bursting out with laughter this entire time. Yes, And my only thought walking away from that was, how does Matt do this
every day? Like every day all of your scenes. It's like, how does he do this? I am intimidated and I want to burst on the scenes with laughter all at once. Yeah, And there were those episodes were filled with you guys where she would be saying the most asinine shit, like would go off the rails, and you guys would be at each other's throats like this is the best thing ever. And I don't know how you get through any scenes.
I think it, you know, I'm just recalling now. It did get easier for me because I knew her so well and I knew how she would say the lines. I knew how she.
Would deliver it because Jane Hading and some rhythm. I mean, yeah, she's a rhythm, but you know, obviously she does go off that rhythm. She's not like just some like but and then that's when she did that. That's when it would get me because I was expecting something else.
But and this is not good for me to say as an actor, because I was expecting her to say it. No actor was saying. I was just there listening.
But after one hundred episodes and kind of had to do.
I think you protect the take. Yes, I start doing that because I didn't want to keep ruining the takes. So I did start to develop her rhythm inside of my head to prepare myself to not laugh.
No, that's a good that, that's a really you have to there has to be some mechanism, yes, otherwise how do you get anything done? You can kill someone with just a look. That is the funniest shit I've seen today.
I get the intimidation thing, though there was for a while I was really intimidated by her. But it works because that's her character.
Obviously, right, which is also hilarious because she is like the softest, nicest.
I don't think anyone in Hollywood has a bad thing to say about Jane Lynn.
No, there's no way. And that's the reason why she has eighty jobs at once always, that's right, that's right.
She'll say, I'm never working.
Yeah, it's okay, Shane. Sure, and she takes care of all those animals. This sweet sweet lady, sweet sweet human. Should we do some of these fan questions? There were a lot of questions for you, Matt, oh boy. Okay, we obviously are not going through the hundreds of questions. Here's one. At what point did the hair jokes stop feeling like jokes?
Uh?
Pretty early on? You know, it's funny. I've had such a journey with in my own life with my hair. My hair used to be stick straight and blonde, like super blonde, stick straight, And when I went through puberty, that's when it started curling up. So I didn't know what to do with it. And for years I was just like trying to like manage these curls that just came out of nowhere, and I hate I used to wear depth gel jelly, yeah, like hold your hair, and then I I got into lubraderm like the body.
I'll never forget that.
Yeah, yeah, that was kind of my thing. Yeah, but it never really bothered me, because you know, I love my hair. I think it was more Ryan Than because he didn't have hair. He was just kind of like keep going. He would say that he was very jealous of my hair.
Yes, yes, yeah, you did have great hairy He was just playing at you. He's saying, here you go, Maddie.
I think there's a little contempt there from from Ryan. But but I don't think it ever lost. It's it might have lost. It's like kind of luster with the audience because there was a.
Lot of hair jokes. I never got one of my fa.
They say they were always fucking hilarious though, so I was. It was great.
I was like, where is Ian coming up with this? It's like, get out your thesaurus of hair jokes. Truly. Also, the funny thing was it was like your hair always looked nice, Like she'd say this crazy stems, like his hair looks normal, perfect, And yeah, I like that. She hated it so much, but there was something wrong, Yes,
exactly she was. If you actually had bad hair and then they were picking on it, it would have been that wouldn't have been funny, though exactly exactly someone wanted someone just wrote anything about working with Jama.
I mean how long you got exactly? Uh, just the the kindest, most open hearted, beautiful and respectful not only actor, but just human being. I think I know she is just she wears her heart er sleeve. She's so thoughtful, she cares about the work, she cares about the person she's working with, and she is just you know, Honestly, if I if I missed one person from that show the most, it would probably be her. Like I don't keep in touch with her very often, but I yeah,
I loved working with her. Every time I saw that we had seen together. I think I put more attention into those scenes because I know I knew that she would always show up, and I really wanted to make those scenes just as dynamic and as strong as as can be because she I mean, she comes off as a little you know on the show, like a little ditzy little but she is. She was so present and so in character and so just like she would just
give it every time. So I felt like I had a really solid co partner to work off of.
So she made it look so effortless.
People talked to her every.
Now and then, Yeah, because I'm obsessed with her, like she's an excuse to see her. Two funny as people I've ever met she's yeah, yeah, it's like you wouldn't necessarily think it's exactly she says some crazy shit, but you're right. She's really sweet and it makes for a really good actor and a good scene partner because she's so giving, she's you know, and she she brings out the best in everybody, so you could definitely tell like
rewatching those scenes. I think the adult scenes stick out to us more now because you know, back in the day you're watching like, oh, what did we do and what clowning were we doing in this number? And you know you're watching yourself. But to rewatch it through the lens of in the space and time that we've had, you're like, oh, wow, I get it, Like it was really it's really profound and different and exciting for us to watch it now.
You're making me want to go back and start watching it.
I know. I mean those first few seasons too were just like it's it's really really great and the work is really really good. Everybody really was giving it, So let us know if you do.
I will.
Somebody asked, what do you miss the most about playing Will?
Jeez? I know there's there's been like a lot of backlash for that character, you know, in terms of of his proximity to the students and all this stuff.
And of course that's a different time, no.
But I I I think at the time it did take that personally. But yeah, so you're I'm an actor showing up, saying my lines and being directed in a way in a certain way. So I didn't like what the character became, I guess. But for me, I think the thing I loved most about Will, what I think was his proximity to to the kids. Because for me, personally, I had like great mentors in my life and people that I just really you know, I knew them personally,
like I knew their their kids. I went to their kids baptisms and all these these things, and they were just like really just I was really involved in their lives and them in mind. And I feel like that was Will Shuster, you know, even just cared so much. Yeah, out a a lens of twenty twenty four, where we are, I'm sure I'm like I said, I don't remember show that well, but I'm sure some of this stuff was
a little probably creepy. But yeah, I come from a time where, you know, having mentors meant so much.
Yeah, really.
I was really proud of that, of being a mentor, and I think in the beginning I really wanted to be a mentor to all of you as well in real life until I got scared. Oh but yeah, so I uh yeah, I think the mentorship role was something that I really connected to.
Yeah, I hear that. Do you your favorite guest star?
Oh that's a really tough one.
Yeah.
I think GP for me would would be my favorite. Gwyneth Paltrow. Yeah, I just loved her.
You guys are great together. Yeah. It was really good.
But I mean I have so like, Okay, Kristen would be the top. Ye yeah, you know, yeah, I was really lucky with guest stars. I feel like I really got to like have some great scenes with with guest stars.
Yes, and yeah, you got to do all of this stuff with the guest stars. Well, somebody asked about dream On. It's like, you know Neil Patrick too, Like you guys, it's like unreal, so good.
That was fun. I just remember him. He was like hosting the Emmys that year.
He was so like, what am I doing? It was so any hosts like the Oscars the night before or something. He did the Oscars yeh was it the Oscars. It was Oscars Emmys and we all went to the parties and then we showed up to work the next day. He's like glowing and we're all like, oh, he has like monologues and he's like, I'm not going to get.
This sorry, sorry guys in advance.
And then he won an Emmy. He's like, remember when I didn't remember my life?
That's why I'm getting emmything because he won the Emmy for that episode.
Yeah, oh my gosh, he.
Was so great at it. And yeah, that that number in particular was one of the highlights. But also like like Jama was is just like one of those giving people and just and we have gone on to like have just an amazing friendship. And you know now she's married to Brad and like.
Yeah, we love them. Yes, so yeah, it's great. Now she's family. She's family forever. Okay, so we ask everybody at the end of the episode, Oh.
Geez, one of these questions. Okay, here we go.
We're a self health podcast. No, I'm kidding, we should not be giving advice. No, what is the feeling that Glee leaves you with.
Connections going out?
So I'm dead.
It is so mixed. I don't have a single answer for that question. Like I said, it was the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. But when I look back at it, and I'm so proud. I'm proud of the impact that we had in society. I'm proud of all the things that we did for so many communities that were underserved or underrepresented. The show opened people's eyes to diversity, to people who weren't the status quo, who looked different, who acted different, and and I feel
like it was the beginning of such a revolution. And for me, that is so beautiful to have been at the kind of nucleus of that whole, you know thing. So I can't look back and be you know, I can complain about being overworked and you know, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. But just like the impact, that's the thing that will will stand the test of time. And for me, I think that is that's a beautiful thing. Because most shows, most TV shows do not have an impact.
They're they're binge worthy, they're fun, they're you know, you might learn something, But there's there are a few and far between shows that have like a cultural impact and a societal people. So yeah, I love, I love being a part of that legacy.
Beautiful, well said. Thank you for taking the time to chat with us. This is it was just a podcast. No, no, no, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. If you see anything on line, it's a lie.
Oh I can't wait wait to see what sound bites kids. Thank you for having me and whatever. Glad we just to catch up.
Yeah, I'm so good to see you. Thank you for spending so much time with us. It's very sweet of you. Pleasure, Thank you.
Love.
Yeah, let me too.
Bye.
Wow. Matt Mattie mo Mattie Morrison, mister shoot himself. You know, what a joy, what a joy. He's a kind he's a kind, soul calm. So yeah, it was very enlightening to hear his his experience and for him to be so honest about it, you know, because I think we kind of, like he said, we separated around season four, five six, like we didn't really see that much of Matt and so you know, it was like we didn't
we didn't get the insights like we used to. We didn't you know, we didn't get him as much and I think we were so bogged down in our day to day that we weren't. It wasn't like we had time to even like hang out with him outside of work. Yeah, you'rest we were hanging out with whoever we were with shooting well, I'm so grateful for Maddie to come and share his experience. And I hope you guys can show the episode and remember when you're talking about Shoe that
Matt is not Shoe. You don't hate Maddie. People don't, though we can, but just just to be safe, you know, people are very good about separating the two. I just want to state it. Thank you, Matt Morrison, our mister Shoe forever for joining us and that's what you really missed. Thanks for listening and follow us on Instagram at and that's what you really miss pod. Make sure to write us a review and leave us five stars. See you next time