Remember, as a communicator, your job is to deliver a message. It's about the message, it’s not about you. This isn't about me. And that takes the focus off yourself. So to me, that's just foundational. Rick Rhodes. So you have spent decades, in ministry, teaching things like that. You, lived in Grenada for a while on the mission field you were at IGO in Thailand for a number of years.
You're back in the States now, and you run a conference, among many other things that you do in life on good communication skills or developing our communication skills. This is a huge topic, and I'm sure we won't cover everything, but I want to hit at least some of the fundamental principles of this and why it matters. So let's just jump right in and I'll start with the first question of why does it matter? Like why should we care about good communication?
And I guess convince me because some people are like, oh, that's not really that big a deal. Okay. Well, I believe the greater the value of a message, the greater the need to deliver well. The greater the value of the message, the greater the need to deliver well. So for anybody out there who does any type of communication, how important is your message?
If if you're in business, it's not always the best business or the best product that gets the job or that has the most sales, it's usually the one that's been presented the best. Okay. So if you're in business, and you have a message to get out there and you're trying to sell products or whatever it may be, your message matters. It's your livelihood. Okay. If you're a team leader, you lead a team. Communication matters that you can do that well. It's got to happen, if you're in ministry.
And for those of us in ministry. And what we do is present the word of God, whether we're teaching, discipling, or evangelism, obviously we know that that message matters. So the greater the value the message, the greater the need to deliver well. If we've been given a very important message, we want to deliver it well. So that's why good communication matters. So in that case where do people start developing these skills.
I call it a skill because I think it's something that can be developed and honed and improved. Well maybe first you should convince us though that it can because some people you hear statements like, I'm a terrible public speaker, I just I'm no good at this. I can't write well, I can't whatever. They make these definitive statements about their abilities. Is this something that can be improved and. Yeah. You want to look at it as any other skill.
So, you know, if you're in construction, you don't say, well, I wasn't born with this skill, so I can't do it. Anybody that does well in construction, they learned, is a learned skill. Some people may be gifted in different areas, but good communication. It's a skill that you can learn. So to say I check out of this one, you know, because I wasn't born with this gift. No, it's a skill that you learn. So it is something that you can learn. It is something that you can develop.
And so all of us can do it, and all of us do a measure of communicating somewhere. In fact, what I like to tell people when we're we're doing our communication conference and we get to the stage presence, we do one, one session on, on delivery. And you talk about, you know, what do we do with our hands, what you do with, you know, where you're at. When do you stay behind a podium when you move in this type of thing?
I said during break, I'm looking at 50 communicators who aren't trying to figure out where to put their hands. They're not trying to figure out how do I stand? Like everybody's being themself and so, so in a sense, we get it. We know how to communicate. What happens is when we get on a stage or we get to a we're performing, or whether it's in sales in a meeting, all of a sudden we think we got to be somebody different or do something different.
But no, you're to be yourself, in line with the message. So again, communication is something that you can learn. And for myself, you know, I started with, with just reading books. So I read a lot of, a lot of books by different authors. And it's good to read from different perspectives. You know, so I read a wide range of communicating books. And what I found was these authors would have their, their grid that they go through to develop their message or their speaking.
And there are some that I like, some that I didn't like. Some of that felt really clunky and I didn't like that. But what I found a common theme. And this is what you want to look for as you as you study things, is look for a common theme coming from different perspectives. And the common theme is the greatest need in communication is a crystal clear focus. You need a clear focus.
Okay, So like those times when we've heard a sermon that has 12 different points to remember at the end, is that an example of whoa, too many things to focus on? Is that what you mean, or am I taking this down the wrong stream? that definitely is. Yeah. Is in this line. So you listen to a sermon with 12 points two days later. How many of those points do you remember? Well, that's kind of always been my challenge.
Like, right, if there's too many pieces involved, it's like, I don't know if I can remember this, you know? So as a communicator, what we've got to ask ourselves is, can I give a message, develop it, and then package the delivery in a way that my audience will remember it? That's what we've got to do. If I give a message and two days later, nobody can remember what I've said. I've wasted their time and I've wasted all the time I put into it. Like, what was the point?
If if I'm speaking to somebody and all I'm going to do is. Keep them entertained or they're listening, filling their time for 45 minutes or whatever it may be. And if they're not gonna remember any of it, like something's wrong with that. And the responsibility of that is on the communicator.
So what I need to do as a communicator is when I have an opportunity to speak, I need to say, okay, I've need to study, develop it well, and then say, okay, how can I package this message and deliver in a way that they'll understand it and they'll remember it. And when we do that, to me that's being a good steward of our opportunities. So, so yeah, when that whole thing of a crystal clear focus, some, some I've heard people say this, you know, I just have.
I want everybody to be able to get something. And I have a wide. I have a wide range in this audience. So, you know, so I'm just, you know, a little bit of this, this kind of like a buckshot, you know, when you're hunting.
And it's about as successful as using buckshot to shoot an elk, you know, the thing's going to run off and be stung a little bit, but you're not going to get to the game when when you speak and you have all these different points, what happens is everybody remembers very little, but you want a crystal clear focus. So that's in in as I read from different communicators, that came clear to me. Okay. It's a clear focus. We need clear focus.
So I did a lot of reading books, then, bought a DVD series that had a, from a training conference and went through that, so, so that was good. But there was something that I was missing, so I knew I enjoyed communicating. I knew that's what God had called me to do. And so a lot of my work was involved in that, in teaching and, and then preaching. But what I lacked was personal coaching in this. And interesting what you know, I don't get that from a book. I don't get that from a DVD.
And what can happen is we don't realize how we're coming across until somebody who knows communication listens to us, watches us, and then speaks into it. So, back in 2013, when our family was, living in Thailand, yet we were in the States for a one year furlough. One of my goals was to go to a, communicating conference. And so I did went to that conference. I think I paid $2,100 to go to this conference to fly out to Colorado, where this was went to this conference.
I had already read the The Communicators book. I already had this DVD series. So I didn't learn anything new through the sessions like I, because I'd been through it all. I devoured it all. But what I wanted to get was that individual coaching. And at this conference, you you were part of a speech group and you had a speech coach. So there are eight people in my speech group, and there's a speech coach, and that's what I knew I needed.
I need a speech coach to listen to me speak and to speak into my communication skills after my first speech. And so you're given five minutes to present a speech. After my first speech, my speech coach said this. Your voice is way too intense. It makes it hard to listen to you. Nobody ever told me that. And then he went on to explain. He said, what you need to do is just speak in, in your optimal, your normal voice. And then when your message is intense, then be intense.
But for short periods of time when you're always intense, you become hard to listen to. It's like, okay, I had 2 more speeches to give so I could work on that and, you know, point out a few other things. That honestly is the only thing I remember from that conference is you’re to intense. It was worth my $2,100 to have somebody tell me that I went back home, and two months before the conference, I just was the evangelist at a big, area wide tent meeting out in Holmes County.
And had preached, I think, ten, 12 sermons in these tent meetings. They recorded these, put them on, on CDs, and then they gave me a set when it was done. I'm not sure why. Maybe they said, you know, have some of your own medicine, listen to your preaching. What? I don't know, but, you know, they gave me a copy when I got back from, from this communication conference. Oh. I'm going to listen to myself speak, put one of these in my CD player and listen to it.
And the first thing that jumped out of me is how intense my voice was. And it didn't let up, like, I was just intense. And I was like, my coach was so right. This is hard to listen to. I shut it off and I never listened to another one of my those CDs. It's like it hurt. I'm like, oh no, what did I put all these people through? And, so I say that to say, if we're going to develop ourselves as communicators, we got to have feedback into saying, look, this is how you're coming across.
Because in our minds, we can think, this is what I said, and this is what I meant, and this is how I said it. But the true gauge is, what did your audience hear you say? How did they hear you say it? And when you think about it, as communicators, there's very few places where you get that.
So if you're a team leader at a business and you lead in communicating to your staff, who in your staff is going to come to you after the meeting and say, you know, this is how you're coming across or this is this is a weakness. This is a distraction. They don't really want to do that. Then if you're in ministry, you know, you're preaching a sermon.
Who afterwards is going to say, you know, that was good, but there's some things that were distracting me or this is or, you know, you had a great sermon, but there was no application. I don't know what to do with it. What happens is we have almost no place to get personal feedback into our communication. Therefore, I'll continue in my bad habit of being intense all the time unless somebody says it. So that's where to develop yourself. You.
You want to read, you want to watch. Good communicators. I've done that. You you learn from these, but you need feedback into how you're coming across. And, I got that at that conference from the coach speaking directly into that. And you can seek it, as you know, from your audience.
So if you are teaching Sunday School class, outside of the class, you can go to somebody that you know and trust and that somebody that would trust you and say, can you tell me how am I coming across, you know, what are some things that I could work on? And you can give people permission to give that to you? You know, as, as a preacher, you can do that. But you've got to be you've got to be willing to take it or you'll shut it down. They won't give it again.
And and honestly, as a communicator, we really want to do it well, like I do want. And I believe everybody we want our audience to understand it. We want them to get it. We don't want to have roadblocks in the way. So how do we get there? We get there by understanding what is effective communication. And then how can I deliver in a way that I'm not a distraction to the message?
Yeah. That that's really helpful because you know you could go on like Amazon right now or something and type in communication books or something and get like I don't know, 500 million results or something insane. And some of those are very helpful. Some of them are very good. I've read different ones and whatever. Or you can watch good communicators. It feels like you would tap out at at a certain level though. Yeah. Of improvement. If you don't have that active feedback. Right.
You're saying to get that feedback you basically just have to ask for it then, right? for the most part. Now, being a dad, after I preach, I can get some honest feedback without asking for it, and it's great. Driving home from church not that long ago, and I preached that morning and, my one said, said the PowerPoint. Dad, that picture was terrible. Like you never should have used. It just looked unprofessional, like, okay, so let me, you know, plug into it.
I thought it was a great example of what I was going to use. You know, I earlier this past summer, I preached one and one of my boys said, dad, you weren't really on your A-game on that one. Like, and sometimes, you know, what we could do is become defensive when people give it. Or you can be curious and say, so why do you say that? What were you thinking? Okay. Yeah. It's good for me to hear those thing. So apart from some of that, you can get it in-house. Where do you get.
Where do you get that feedback? And that's where. That's where being at a conference where you will speak to a group that they know their job is to listen to you and then to give that feedback that's really helpful. And you're not going to get that in a book. You're not going to get that just by watching good communicators. So that's where you can take your communication on to another
level is okay, I get feedback now I'm going to work on these things. So so one option might be having some kind of structured practice or something like you could even get a group together and say we're going to let's practice and and take notes on each other or something. It seems to me though, to do this well, you'd have to be very vulnerable and very humble. Yeah, yeah. For sure. So, let me let me say a couple things with that.
Out of having been to a communication conference that, Darryl Weaver went with me. We were missionaries together in Grenada. Had kind of stayed in touch. And then during that furlough, I was teaching school at the school where he was a principal, and I wanted to go to this conference. And so I said, hey, Darryl, would you go with me? We went there together, and it was really good.
But we knew that most of our Anabaptist people wouldn't come to this conference, wouldn't be very comfortable with it. And there were some things that we were glad were there together. And it's like, and yet as we looked around in our, in our Anabaptist circles, we weren't offering this, in fact, I think the only opportunities there are is maybe at Faith builders, you'll get a class, a two week class, and a winter term. Or maybe at SMBI you could take a term.
Or maybe in high school you got a little bit. But to get in-depth teaching and then coaching, like where do we get that? And so out of seeing that, that lack of, of of opportunity that need in our conservative Baptist circles, Darrell Weaver and I set to work together and developed the Impact Communication conference where we we do this, three and a half day training on communication. Everybody's in a speech group where they get that feedback and that enables you to get that honest feedback.
And while you can set up your own group and do this and we encourage people to go from the conference to do this, you know, a couple of your friends were here or your whole leadership team was here. Your work team was here. What you've learned now, you help each other but if you're going to try doing that completely on your own, like, what are you looking for? You've got to understand good communication. You got to have a basis to go on before you can start.
So, so what we should do here is just underline what is effective communication. yeah. So yeah. Which, which was where I was going to go with that is could you give us some fundamental principles I suppose. Or yeah. Principles at the base of effective communication. And I would assume we could apply this to not just public speaking, maybe writing, whatever the case may be, but yeah, give us some of those principles. So, so this is to me this is foundational.
Effective communication is always going to do three things for us. The first thing we're going to connect as a communicator effective communication happen if I connect with my audience, if I condense my message, it's not this dump load of information. 12 points said, you know, on whatever it may be in two days, I won't forget it. No, that's not being effective. So I'm going to condense my message. And then thirdly, I'm going to compel to action.
So three C's of effective communication connect condense compel connect means you've got to know your audience. Who am I speaking to? Know your people condense. You got to know your point. Why am I talking this morning? Why this meeting? Why this sermon? What's my point? So to condense, you got to know your point. Then everything points at that. Okay, then to compel, you know, your purpose. Why do they need to hear this?
Okay. And to compel it, it takes away the, this idea that we can just have informational meetings or informational, you know, times, sometimes we'll call them that. Maybe a business or church. We have an informational meeting. If you're having a meeting, and it's simply to give them information, but you do not want them to do anything about it. Cancel those meetings. Let people have an evening at home. You know, if you're a business. We have an informational meeting for all our staff.
Let them stay at work. Okay. But we get some resistance like, no, no, no, they need this information. They need the data. They need to see the figures. Okay. Why? There's a reason you want them to know the information. So figure that out and then compel them to the action. Yeah, that makes sense because then you. Yeah. Communicating without a why. That's just seems like that. That's confusion Yes for sure for sure. So let me where I get the connect convince compel. Straight out scripture.
God's a great communicator and Scripture is full of great communicators. So here's one for us. If I were to ask you, Reagan, who is known as a man after God's own heart, who who comes to mind? David. Right. So that's what we know, right? There was a time in David's life when a man after God's own heart would have not been a title for him. After his sin with Bathsheba. He was an adulterer. He was a murderer. He had her husband, Uriah the Hittite, who was one of his top 30 men.
He had him killed in battle to cover what he'd done. And then so he could marry Bathsheba. So he's a adulterer, a murderer and a liar. And he's just acting like everything's okay and it's not okay. What's going to change the course of David's life? You know what pushes me to keep going as a communicator, is God's not coming down here himself to do the work. He's not sending his angels to do the work. He's using us as human beings to be the messengers. So I want to do it well.
God needs somebody to go to David and say, David, you've sinned. Who's going to do that? Nathan the prophet. Nathan comes to David knowing that he's he's the most powerful ruler in the country. He's just killed one of his best men to cover his sin. And Nathan is going to come in and say, you have sinned. What's going to keep David from saying, I don't want to hear that from you? I'm throwing you in prison. I'm taking your head off. Whatever. Like that's a pretty high stakes message, right?
When you look at that story, it's easy to say that was probably a five minute speech that Nathan gave to David. Look at what Nathan did in that five minutes. And we're going to see the connect condense compel. Nathan comes to David. And so he's going to confront him about his sin. He comes in and he says, David, he said there once two guys, two men, lived in a city. One is wealthy. He has flocks of sheep, one very poor. He doesn't have flocks. He doesn't have a flock. He has one ewe lamb.
It was the only one he had. So it stayed in his house it ate from his table, slept in his bosom like I don't know what all that, but it's very poor, special lamb. Nathan then says, the rich man who has the flocks of sheep has a guest come from afar, and so he wants to treat him well. And rather than take one of his many sheep and serve it to this guest, he goes to his poor neighbor, he steals his only lamb and offers that for a gift for his friend. David interrupts this story and he's angry.
It's touched his heart. His emotions are involved. He says that man should die for this. And then Nathan says, David, you're the man. And when Nathan is done speaking to David, David's no longer angry. He's no longer trying to cover his sin. David's response is, I've sinned. And Psalm 51 create in me a clean heart o God. It comes out of David hearing Nathan deliver a very important message, and he delivered it well. So why did David receive that? Look what Nathan did. He connected with him.
Okay. How did he connect with him? He used a story. Jesus use stories. So that's always a great way to connect so we can learn from that. But his story used sheep. David's a shepherd, David, so he gets it. Okay, so when when Nathan was preparing for this five minutes with the king, who's he thinking about? He's thinking about his audience. Always important as a communicator. Our focus is always about the audience. What do they need to hear? It's not. What do I want to tell them?
It's what do they need to hear? Okay, so. So he's thinking about David. David grew up a shepherd boy. David grew up poor. David would connect with a pet little lamb. David's very wealthy now he's the king. He connects with having lots. He connected. Nathan connected with David through this story. Okay, that's the first part of effect. Communication is where you connect. When you connect with your audience. Okay, I get it. There's buy in there. Okay. So he connected to connect. Know your people.
Who am I talking to? Nathan did that. Secondly, condense. How many points was Nathan bringing to David that day? Like he could have talked to him about, about his leadership as a king. He could talk to him about being a father. You know, you got one kid run around that's a rebel. He's probably gonna overthrow you someday, you know, work on your parenting skills. He could have talked about a whole bunch of different things. No, there's one point today that you need to hear. You've sinned.
He condensed his message to a crystal clear focus. And David got it, and he remembered it. And we as communicators need to do that. If I've got 12 points that I want to give, will I remember these 12 points without looking at notes? If I won't, then why am I going to put that on my audience? They don't even have my notes. They haven't had the time to study. That's not even realistic. Don't waste their time. Cancel that message or let's condense it. Do these 12 points.
First of all, are they 12 points that my audience needs to hear? And if so, then let's take one and let's develop it well. Let's teach it well so that they get it. Okay. I'm not saying that a message can't have more than one point to it. It can have multiple points that are all pointing to the point of the message. That's the key. So Nathan condensed his message to David. You're the man. You’ve sinned. Okay? So he condensed it to that and then it wasn't an informational meeting.
Okay. You know, when he was done, David didn’t look at him and say, that's a cool story. Thanks, man. Like, what do I do with this? No. What did he say? I've sinned. He was compelled to action. He knew what he needed to do. He needed to repent. And when we communicate, we're never communicating just for the sake of communicating. There's a reason to it. Why am I having this meeting? Why? Why am I, meeting with this customer? Why am I speaking to this class? Why to this congregation?
And I want to compel them to action. So we've all probably sat under under a message or teaching where we've come away saying that that was really good, but I don't know, what am I supposed to do with this? And as a communicator, it's our responsibility to say, okay, I'm not just going to tell you, here's truth. Here's something good for you to to think about. What do you do with this? I'm going to say, here's what here's how you apply this. In fact, we see that with Nathan in this one.
Let me give an illustration. And this is from Jesus, the master teacher. Jesus was asked a question. One day, a teacher of the law came to him and said, master, what do I need to do to get eternal life? And Jesus, knowing his people, the people that he's speaking to, you knowing his audience, he said, well, you know, the reading of the law, what's it say? You know, said, well, you know, you love Lord to God through your whole heart, soul, mind, strength, love your neighbor as yourself.
Jesus said, you've answered, well, do that, and you live and then it says that this teacher of the law saying, wanting to justify himself, says, well, who's my neighbor? So here's the question. And what is Jesus, the master teacher communicator? What does he do? He could have said, well, your neighbor is anybody you come in contact with, End of discussion, end of teaching session. How many people would remember that? Not very many. You know how Jesus answered that question.
And who's my neighbor? He answered it with a story. The story is what all of us know as the Good Samaritan. Jesus tells this story in a way that connected with his audience. They get it. He lists places. It's a real place. Pass from, Jerusalem to Jericho. They've traveled that road, fell among the thieves. They probably pictured the, you know, the place where that can happen or, you know, on these roads, whatever fell among the thieves, a priest comes by. They know who a priest is.
So he's using a story that his audience connects with. Okay, a priest goes by, priest is a good guy. Sees the man lying there half dead. Passes by on the other side. Well, that's not very nice. How does this answer the question? Who's my neighbor? You got curiosity in your audience. That's a good thing. You want, you want. There's going to be some tension. Like why is he saying this? Or how does this apply? So Jesus has that. Okay. The priest, he went by over there okay.
Next a Levite comes by, sees the man in the ditch, half dead, passes by this side, and they're like a Levite. That's a good guy. Not really. Like. So what Jesus doing a priest Levite, good guys. they’re the bad guys in the story. Jesus says, then a Samaritan come by and I can almost hear these guys groaning like, oh, brother, that they hated the Samaritans, the other bad guys. We don't like them. Jesus is probably gonna make the Samaritan be the good guy. And he does.
The Samaritan comes by, he sees the guy there. He gets off his donkey. He bandaged his wounds. He puts him on the donkey. He takes him to an inn, says here, take care of him. I'm paying the bill. And if there's more out, I check back and I'll take care of it. When Jesus done, he turns back to this lawyer teacher of the law who's asked this question. And he said, So, who was neighbor to him that fell among thieves? Now the man asking that question. And that audience did not go.
I know it was the Good Samaritan. You could call the story the story of the Good Samaritan. Not at all. You know what he did? He wouldn't even say the words he just said. The one that showed mercy on him. But he got it. He got the point. And then Jesus said, go and do likewise. He compelled him to action. So in that story that we have there, what did Jesus do? He connected. He connected with them through a story that they understood.
They understood the place. They understood the people. He connected. He condensed it. How many topics could Jesus preached to the to the religious leaders of that day? You know, he could have hammered a whole lot of things. The pride in your heart that's why you look down. No, no, no, no. Your neighbor is anybody come in contact, go and do like he condensed it to one point. He compelled him to go and do likewise. So to me, good communication will always do those three things.
I'm going to connect, I'm going to condense, and I'm going to compel that to me as effective communication. that's incredible. I've never thought of that story with Nathan the prophet and David. That is powerful right. Like how he connected with David in that way. It just it makes so much sense when you describe it like that. Yeah. to me, you look at how pivotal that moment was and and here's to me, this is why I want to grow myself as a communicator.
How many lives am I going to come in contact with? That it is a pivotal moment. And if I deliver, well, a message they need to hear that it could be a good moment in their life. What if Nathan would have done this? Okay. God. You want me to go talk to David? He's committed adultery. Murder, and he's lied. You just got to tell me what to speak, okay? Nowadays, like, okay, I'll just rely on the Holy Spirit. I don't know if I would have said that, but we'll just do that, okay?
I'm just to rely on Holy Spirit. I'm going to go. So he comes in to David. Well, David, you've sinned. I don't think it would have went over. When I look at that story he prepared, he thought about who am I speaking to. What does he need to hear. Why does he need to hear it. He answered those questions. He prepared well for that. And when he went in there he delivered it. Well. And when he was done David didn't say, wow, Nathan, you are an amazing storyteller. Not at all.
This is one of the misconceptions that people have in getting trained for communication. If you become good at it, you'll get proud. Okay, the goal in growing yourself as a communicator is so that you're not a distraction to the message. To me, the highest compliment I can receive as a communicator is for people to say, I was so taken in by the message, I didn't think about you. I don't want people to think about me. I don't want to be a distraction.
Nathan gave that message in a way that David connected with it. He understood it, and in the end it wasn’t like, wow, Nathan, you're really good. I have, you know, have you come back in story time with Nathan? No, it wasn't anything about that. The message hit home. You want to grow your self as a communicator? Not so. People say. Wow, but so people get the message comes back to this foundational belief I have. The greater the value of the message, the greater the need to deliver well.
So for Nathan to say, well, I'll just rely on God, he's gotta lead me. That's being lazy. Okay, now, I believe we rely on the Holy Spirit to help us, but to say, I'm not going to prepare because of that. There's one time when Scripture gives us permission to do that. That's when we're brought before kings and governors for our faith. And it says, don't study ahead of time. Don't worry about what you're going to say.
The Holy Spirit will give you what to say in that moment when I'm on trial for my faith, I don't need to sweat it out. God's going to give me words to speak, But when I've been asked to teach Sunday school, when I've been asked to preach a sermon, when I've been asked to address a topic for me to say, well, I'm just going to rely on the Holy Spirit that is not studying to show myself to be approved unto God. That is not being a good steward of the responsibilities.
I need to work hard in preparing fact. That's where most of the work of effective communication is. It's ahead of time and we need to stop and say this. It's not do I work hard or do I depend on the Holy Spirit? I think we do both. Like where do we get this idea that depending on the Holy Spirit means I don't work, and that the only time the spirit leads is behind the pulpit? I'm teaching Sunday school spirit just gonna have to lead because I don't have time to study. That's laziness.
Okay, that shows my priorities aren't where they should be. If I've accepted responsibility to teach this class, I need to put myself into it. And I want the spirit to lead me while I study. And while I present to see I don't need to prep. The Holy Spirit will lead me that saying the study is all our own work. No amazing things happen when we're working hard in the study. There will be times when we may study well and we get up to present and God's Spirit will say, you know what?
That's not the message. I want you to do this. There'll be some times for that, it can be. And then you, you follow what God's Spirit leading to do but to use the excuse to be lazy in our preparation. So the Holy Spirit leads me. That is not honoring to God. Nathan didn't do that. I'm confident of that. Now, maybe Jesus could do that, right. He could, you know, come to him.
But none of us can do that. So. So the whole idea that I don't I don't need to prepare well because the Holy Spirit lead me. No, you need the Holy Spirit to lead you. And he can lead you in your study, and he will lead you up there. Another question that can come along with that is so how much notes do you take? I will yes. Okay. So what. Okay. To rewind a little bit I think you made a there's two things that's sticking out to me when Nathan comes to David.
That package that he delivered so essentially had an incredible level of potency. You know, he didn't need a 45 minute sermon, right? It's like five minutes. Boom. You know, so you have that and just want to grab that as it passes by. Because that really affirms what you're saying about the investment in time to hone that in and make it potent. The other one is proper communication or good communication effective? Actually lowers like it's not about you, right? The person presenting it.
That's kind of a new thought for me. And I wonder if that has a lot to do with what people hesitate with because like, well, I don't want to be proud. I don't want to be. It's almost like if I'm too good at this, then then that lifts me up. And I think you make I think you're making a really good point there. I don't know.
And then back to so there's that piece and then the whole preparing and study and then of course the question about notes, you know, do you use notes, all of that anyway, do you have more responses to what I just showed there? So let me go back before the notes. Let's come back to that. But the whole thing of if I do good, you know, people think I'm proud. Whatever. We believe as Anabaptists, we believe that we can do business really well and not be proud.
We believe that our wives can cook really good meals, and not be proud. And we actually, we want our wives to cook good meals and stay humble. What I don't want to do is go home tonight for supper and come inside. There's a fog of smoke and my wife pulls, you know, some burnt offering out of the oven and is like, you know what, honey? I burnt this one on purpose to stay humble. Like, don't make us suffer, honey. Stay humble and keep cooking good, right?
So somehow we had this foundational belief that we can do business well, we can cook well. We can do these things well and stay. Stay humble. Why do we think that if I get good at communicating, I'll become proud? I don't think it should be that way. And I think part of that can come from is we think about communication as about the communicator. And what we need to do is switch the focus. It always should be. Receiver oriented or we need to think is the receiver.
That's what effective communication the focus is on the receiver. It's not about me. So what do they need to hear? You know, what's their need? Why do they need to hear this? How will this help them? What do they need to do with this? How can I present in a way that they get it? It's all about them and all we are as a communicator. We're just the messenger. So our job is just to deliver it. So all my preparation is thinking about them. What do they need to hear? None of it's about me.
And so it's getting the focus off of me, which again, is in line with with being a Christian. It's about God. I really think that might might be one of the most key pieces that that you have here. Because there's if there's a foundational belief that, oh, what?
You're proud if you're good at this or, oh, I don't want to be in the spotlight because because, you know, hey, if you're if you're giving a sermon or a devotional in church when there's a lot of people looking at you, you know, it's a public thing, right? And so it oh, he, you know, it gets we get kind of nervous about that and okay. But maybe we've got the more maybe misaligned there or mis oriented.
I think you're really on something there that can we not keeping the focus on what's the message. And who are the people that need to receive it. That's, that's that's a really key piece. I think it's it's in line with the principles of Scripture. It's about the message. It's not about the messenger. Paul said in Galatians when, when he heard the church there was was being deceived by the Judaizers.
He said, it doesn't matter who preaches this, even if an angel comes, if it's any what what matters is the message. If it's any, then what is truth? It's wrong. That's a great point. I never thought of that. It's about the message. We as communicators exist for the message. And when we make that, as I prepare, I'm thinking about, okay, what's the message? How can I see in a way, they understand it? Why do they need this? It's all about them. We're really not even in the picture.
Our job is just to deliver it. And we want to deliver in a way that we're not a distraction. And when we do it well, our audience will say, I get it. It makes sense. And then God speaks to the heart. When I don't do it well, I become a distraction. See that? It's this is really resonating because I'm just thinking of like, okay, a high watermark for good public speaking is something like Ted talks, for example, right? And there are some out there that are just just phenomenal.
And you learn a ton. Right. And I'm trying to think I'm like, yeah, I've seen some. And I can tell you what the topic was. I couldn't tell you who the speaker was, you know, because I'll remember. Oh man, I remember I heard this on a Ted talk. And that idea just was really neat and it was presented super great. No idea who that guy's name was. You take your favorite communicators, the ones that you like to listen to. And you know why we like them? Because they deliver well.
If I think of my favorite speakers, I like them. And I keep going back to to hearing them, I know they deliver. I get a message. and so, again, along the line of why we want to develop ourselves so we can deliver well, is, if I go to hear my favorite preacher and he doesn't give a message that connects, that makes sense. There's gonna come a time where, like, I don't really want to go hear him speak anymore. What draws us to any communicator is the message.
You can take your favorite speaker, your favorite podcast you listen to or whatever it may be, your favorite communicator. If they stop delivering a message, you're going to stop listening. But when we go back to places where we know we're going to get a message. So really, while we may say we have favorite speakers or authors, the reason we like them is because the message they really are delivering. you know, like I learned something. This this actually mattered. Yeah.
Right. Man. That's that's that's huge, though, because I think I think that is a big stumbling block for people is like, oh, I don't want to lift myself up or like, I don't want to put myself forward in this way. And and maybe I'm misconstruing this or perhaps maybe not misconstruing it, but we're perceiving ourselves incorrectly or something, you know? So yeah, let's, let's hit a few practical things. So, so back to the notes thing.
I'm curious, you do a lot of public speaking, a lot of teaching and things. Do you use notes? You have notes right now, but or are you the kind of person I'm going to wing it? You know, I, I have gone through different stages as a young preacher. There was a time when I only used three by five cards. You know, I, I just wanted it to flow. Okay. And I preached a few good sermons from only a three by five card, and I preached some really lousy ones from that.
I have, ranged, in different, different aspects. To me, it's not about how many notes you take down. Now, what I do is I put a lot of notes down. Okay. Because it helps you process your message by putting it down on paper. So. And, and if you're going to reuse it in the future, then you have something to go back to. So I think you should put a lot of notes down for the first goal is to make sure you got your thoughts organized. Okay. So you see it there. Something happens when it goes.
It goes from here down to the paper. Something happens within us. It helps us process, helps us get it. So, I take a lot of notes. And then I make sure that I've gone through them enough that I can internalize it. And my goal is not to use them, but I will always take them with me. Okay. So, recently preaching at a wedding, a wedding. You don't want to be a distraction as the preacher at the wedding, right? And, yeah. I had notes, but I internalize it, so I don't need them.
But I kept them with me, folded them up, tucked them in my pocket, gave my message, internalize it so I didn't need them. But if I lose my way, I know they’re right there. I can get to them. Okay, so I always take notes with me. And sometimes I'll need them. Sometimes not, but I think it's it's good to put a lot down on paper. So if you do lose your way. I was preaching, and also a wedding, several years ago. And all of a sudden, my mind just went blank, and it scared me, like, where am I?
What am I saying here? Like, I lost my place in the sermon. I was so glad that I had notes that I could just pause, look back, okay, get back on track. Okay? Because that's going to happen to us. So take a lot of notes, but then internalize it so that you can connect with your audience. There's a difference between memorizing a message or a speech and internalizing it.
I was at a conference and, a leadership conference, and they had a number of speakers throughout the day, and there were a few that were really good. And after the day was done reflecting back, I'm like, so why were those so impactful? Why did I really like them? A few of them weren't really dynamic, like they pretty much just talked in their optimal voice the whole time.
They, you know, they weren't all over the stage or that type of thing, which sometimes we think goes with being a good communicator. No. They but they really it was like it was really good. And here's as I process this, here's what every one of those communicators that really that I really got some out of that day. Here's what they had in common. All of them had internalized their message.
So throughout their entire presentation, they were connecting with us as an audience, and they weren't continually in their notes, in the notes. They were just talking to me. And it's like, wow, I got it. So there as a communicator, part of internalizing is writing it down and then processing it, so that you can give it it just comes from the inside out and you can get it. So back to the note taking question. I encourage people to take a lot of notes. So you have it there.
But then you want to internalize it. and when you internalize it and you can just stay connected with your audience, that's the best. Now, there are times when maybe we're not able to internalize it completely as we like. Will then have your notes there, and have your notes in a way that you can easily look down, find your spot. And and know where you're at rather than you've got to look through it. You're, you're digging around what you're doing.
So the internalizing piece feels significant. It, it feels like if you if you did that properly, whatever you're presenting will come across as very authentic and genuine. It's like you're not making stuff up. You're not reading from from a book or something. You know, it's like, oh, you actually believe this? You've got like, that's something I know that speaker has really got it. Yeah. That feels like that in itself would add quite a bit of impact. It does, it does.
And the fact too, that, I'm looking at you and I'm, I'm not putting on a my preacher voice or my professional voice or I'm not trying to be somebody else. I'm just being who I am in line with the message. When you think about delivery, and when we teach at Impact communication conference, we have one session out of eight. We have one on delivery. And it's fitting because most of your work as a communicator is beforehand and in processing, developing, preparing.
And then we do one on delivery and in delivery. I'll just give you these real real quickly. Two points for delivery. The Eminem's of delivery m the message. The second m, the messenger and what we need to do as the messenger. I need to deliver the message in a way that people get it at. I the messenger. Am I presenting the message? In a way they'll get it. There'll be some talks I give where I stay right behind the podium. I stay right my seat. And I should.
It would be a distraction if I was up on my feet, if I raise my voice. Okay. There's there's some message I give where I come down off the stage and I'm moving around and I get loud and I, you know, all these type of things if it's in line with the message. Okay, so when we think about delivery, I, the messenger, I need to give it in a way that they get it. And if I'm not myself, and if I'm not giving it in line with the message, it doesn't feel authentic.
It's like, why is he all of a sudden speaking in this voice like I just talked to him beforehand. That's not really him. It makes people makes people question that. Okay, if I'm telling a personal illustration and I read it, people will be like, is that true? Did that really happen? All I have to do is pop my head up and just tell them and they'll get it. It's like, that really happened.
So when it comes to delivery, we make sure we're doing in line with the message again, always our focus is on the message. So we've, we've went through some some critical pieces on the fundamentals of effective communication. The why like why it's important. Answering some of the questions around it. Will this turn this into, you know, will this turn into pride or where we put the focus on the wrong thing. I think again, I think you had a I think that was a really key piece.
So very practically, what is one thing people listening to this can do right now to improve their communication skills? You want to understand what makes for good communication. So to do that, I'm going to give you the five laws of IMPAC communication. So now and you can take these laws. Each of them answers a question. And this is what you can use to to help yourself understand communication. So when Daryl and I developed the impact medication conference we spelt impact IMPAC no t on the end.
But we do know how to spell. There's a reason it’s IMPAC okay. So each one's letter stands for a law I is inspiration m motivation P personalization a application and then C clarification okay so the law of inspiration it states an audience is impacted when a communicator can build content. That's your action word built content that's relevant to them. Answers a question what do I want my audience to know? That's the law of inspiration. What do I want my audience to know?
Okay, that's something that you need to, you need to wrestle to. So what do they need to know? And again, how you know that? Who am I speaking to? Am I speaking to one person? Am I speaking to teenagers? Am I speaking to a thousand people? You know, by knowing who your speaking to. So that's the law of inspiration. Answer the question, what do I need them to know? The second law motivation. That law states an audience is impacted when a communicator can articulate the value of a message.
Answers, why do they need to hear this? Okay, so why do they need this? We take law of inspiration, law of motivation and combine them to make what we call an I-M statement. So I want my audience to know answers the question what? So that or because that answers the question why? And then that guides me through everything. I'm giving that presentation. Everything's in line with that goal. Your inspiration. What do they need to know? The motivation? Why do they need to know it?
That's foundational in our communication. And that works as a preacher, as a teacher in sales, it works in any culture. It works in any type of communication that works. So that's the law of inspiration, law of motivation. Then the third law, the law of personalization that one states an audience is impacted when a communicator can demonstrate experience with the message, answers the question, how does their message impact their life?
Now I have heard some pushback from people saying, well, I don't use personal illustrations in my speaking because I don't like to talk about myself. And that sounds good, right? So let's just let's just follow that line of thought. You're not going to use person illustration because you don't want to talk about yourself. So what illustrations are you going to use. You're going to borrow from somebody else, you know, search online like... person illustrations are powerful. They're great.
We don't give them to talk about ourselves. What happens is we give person illustrations because it shows how we practice the message, how we put it into place. So the goal in personal and using in the law of personalization is to say, here's how I use the product, here's how I practice the habit, here's how I believe the truth, and three key three words that guide us in using personal illustrations. Thinking about the law of personalization. Three words you need to be humble.
Don't just share your success stories. In fact, there have been messages. When I've look back at my illustration, I'm like, you know what? All my stories are success stories. So I'll pull one out and say, okay, how can I put a story where it was a fail story and I needed to learn from my mistake? So don't make all these stories your success stories, okay? Or don't make you the hero in all your stories.
Okay. In fact, when I teach this session at IMPAC, I have four stories that illustrate in this. Of those four stories, in three of them, the hero is somebody else. Okay. And in one of them, it is very clear my failures. Okay. Only only in one of the four stories am I the hero or I did the success. I think it's a pretty good ratio. Only one of four where as the communicator, it's success on me. So your three words that guide you in the law personalization.
Humble, honest, like be honest, be real in sharing, about your struggles and how you're wrestling with presenting this truth. Okay, I've heard people say, well, I don't teach on this because I don't do it very well myself. Okay, that sounds good, but follow that through. Does that mean everything you speak on, you've got to perfect it. That's not going to come across very well.
And so the law of personalization doesn't state, an audience is impacted when a communicator can demonstrate perfection. No, it's when we demonstrate experience. Here's how I do this. Here's how I failed. And I should have, you know, so personal situations are never to bring attention to yourself. It's to point to the message. And when you tell a personal story, it helps if people say, wow, he wrestles with that too. Wow. He believes in what he's saying.
So that's why we use the law of personalization answers the question how does this message impact your life then the fourth law, the law of application, that is an audience is impacted when a communicator can identify change to put into practice, identify change because your action words answers a question what do I want them to do? And like I said before, we don't do such thing as informational speech, okay? We always there's a reason they need to hear this. So what do I want them to do?
That's as we present. So we've the inspiration. The motivation. Here's what I want you to know. Motivation, why I want you to know. And we're going to teach that. Okay. Now, what do you do with it. So now let's get application. So that's a lot of application. And then the fifth law and I love this one. And this is the one that I think is the most underused because I think people don't think about it. The law of clarification and this law is this.
And audiences impacted when a communicator can package the delivery in a memorable way, answers the question, how do I help them remember? When I have done the work of preparing a presentation, I have my content down now. I was like, okay, let me go. Give it to them. No, stop! How can I package this in a way that they'll remember it? Okay. What are the three words that guide us in using, law of Personalization? They all start with H. No, I didn't change this or make it up. Okay, we're going to.
I can remember that. Honest, humble. And I didn't give you the last H humor. That's good I said there's three H’s, remind me to go back to so when we use a law personalization also humor is a great way and people people connect with humor okay. So when when we give personal personal illustrations, humble, honest and then use humor and humor using your own stories, if you can laugh at yourself, your audience can laugh with you. That's a great way to connect.
Exaggeration can be a great form of humor. And it's not lying is not dishonest if it doesn't deceive. Okay, so we talked about it, living in northern Minnesota. so let me tell you some about Minnesota that I learned after living there for eight years. They have four seasons in in Minnesota, northern Minnesota, early winter, mid-winter, late winter And next winter That's so true. Okay, I know that's exaggeration. Yeah, but what do you get out of that? Yeah, there's long winters. Right.
Okay, here's here's what I like about Minnesota too is the people Minnesota are really excited this year because summer falls on the weekend. So yeah what that tells people is okay it's really cold. It's really long. It's exaggeration, but it's humor. People here that they laugh, made a point. Those are good ways to use personal illustrations. So but back to the law of clarification. Three H’s I can remember that. Okay.
So when you have a message you're ready to give, how can I package in a way that they're going to get it? How can I deliver memorable in a memorable way? What did Jesus do when he answered the question, what? Who's my neighbor? What did he do? Told him a story. We know the we know that the story of the Good Samaritan Jesus package in a way that he got it. What did Nathan do. When he went to David, he packaged it in a way that David would remember it.
And so when you know what they need to hear, why they need to hear it, you put your personal illustrations in, you've gotten the application. Now let's do one more thing. Use the law of clarification. How can I help them remember, and what you want is that two days later, a week later, a year later, or whatever it may be, I got it, I got it, and often that will be because the communicator put the work the time into packaging it in a memorable way. How you package delivery.
Now, I'm grateful that that's where God's Spirit, he will say things that sometimes we don't even say that people need to say. And we we thank God for that. But again, we're not going to be lazy. We're going to do our part in saying, I'm going to try to help you remember not I'm like, let's work with the Holy Spirit and trying to give them what they can hear, what they can remember, rather than just dump a load of information on them. So those are the five laws of of IMPAC communication.
And our core values in this, which go right along with what we're talking about. Here are four core values with IMPAC. Our first one is humility okay. Valuing the message rather than promoting the messenger. So that's why you want to do it well, you want them to get it okay. David didn't say, wow, Nathan you're great. No, he said I've sinned. He got it. And that's our goal. Our goal isn't to make ourselves look good. So our first value is humility. Our second one is teach ability.
And so you talked about this. If you've got people speaking into it, if you're going to be a good communicator you've got to accept people speaking into how you communicate. And if all they do is say, well, it's a great sermon, what you know, way to go that doesn't help you anything. But if they say, you know what, you're too intense. It's hard for me to listen to you. Oh. Okay. Now I've got something to work on. Okay. So we need to be teachable. That's a core value.
And again, one of the things we do at the IMPAC communication conferences, you have feedback where you get commendations, where those in your speech group and your coach say, this is really good. Keep doing that. And then you have critiques. This was a distraction. Here's some things you need to work on okay. And we do that three times that you give three different speeches in your speech group so that we work on things. You see themes that you need to work on.
So second, core values teach ability. Third one is maturity valuing the growth that comes through feedback rather than taking offense at it. If I want to grow myself as a communicator and I become offended when somebody says, you don't, Rick, that was a really lousy message. I'm not going to grow. But when I can be curious with what they say and say, okay, why? Why do you say that was a lousy message and I can really listen to it. They can help me out.
So even if even if I don't agree with everything they said or even it's like, no, I don't think I said no. Listen to them, listen to them. So the third value value, maturity value and the feedback that comes and then our fourth value is clarity value in a concise focus message rather than teaching broad amounts of information. And again, we go back to Jesus for this Jesus told the disciples, said, I've got many things to tell you, but you can't bear them all right now.
But I'm going to give it to you anyways, right? No, that's not what he said. And yet how many times do we as communicators say, okay, I got to hurry through this to this message here because I've got so much information I want to cover. Okay, time out. Is your goal to cover a lot of information, or is your goal to give a message that impacts to where they understand and they get it?
If we're trying to hurry through to cover, like, I believe it's the late Howard Hendrix that says, you know, why are we trying to cover it? Oh, let's get it out there where they can see it and understand it. So our goal, if I have so much information that I go, it's like I'm putting myself ahead of my audience. I have so many things I want to say to you, so listen well. Yeah. Oh, I see that. You see what I'm doing.
So then what I'm doing is I'm sacrificing the impact of what this message needs to be for them. For the sake of I just want to say all these things. That's so selfish. For me as a communicator, what I need to do is say, how much time has I've been given? Especially in American culture. We're very time conscious. How much time have they given? Have they given me 30 minutes and I have a 60 minute sermon. Then I better condense it to where I can give it in 30 minutes what they've wanted me to give.
And I can do it in a way they'll remember it. And if I have more information to give than what I have time for, then narrow it down. Maybe you have two sermons. You should. They should be broken into. Or maybe you're saying some things that aren't really pointing to the main point. So the aspect of I'm going to make sure I'm going to say, here's what you can handle. That's a, that's a really important aspect.
And, and that's valuing, clarity value in the concise message rather than broad amounts information. So that's our core values. And I see that when we follow those, that's when people can that's when people will get it. And we're not in the way. We're not a distraction. Not being a distraction and, and really, pushing in on clarity or honing in on clarity.
Yeah, that's key though, because it's so easy to just, for it to feel a little rambly sometimes, like, you know, sometimes, like, that's easy to do, you know, a sermon or a teaching session or something. It can feel like, oh, I'm starting to lose it a little bit. You know, where, where is this going? And really pushing in on clarity. so as we, as we wrap all these pieces up, there's a lot here. I think it's the big is the big one. Okay.
So we've covered a lot of territory and there's all these books and trainings and courses, all this stuff on this, it can feel like a lot and where to even start. But I feel like you gave us a couple really, really key pieces. The. Yeah, the humility part and good communication done well, shouldn't be focused on the presenter. It's about the message. I still feel like that's that one's huge. And the, the outlines you've given us. Yeah. This is there's a lot here to think about.
So as, as we wrap this up and people listen to this and say, okay, I want to take this into my own life and get better at communicating. Is there any piece of advice you'd want to leave us with? Yes. Two things. The first one is this. Remember, as a communicator, your job is to deliver a message. It's about the message, it’s not about you. This isn't about me. And that takes the focus off yourself. So to me, that's just foundational.
It gives me freedom to put myself into it because I'm putting myself into it. So they get it. I'm putting myself into it so they understand the message, and then I'm not a distraction. So it gives you freedom to do your job well. And just like, you know, you go home and your mom's cooked a good meal, you know, wow, you're so enthralled with the meals. Not like your gaze and your mom saying, wow, mom, you're awesome. No, you're it's like the meal is right. She delivered it, right.
So you want to deliver a message in a way that people get it. They're taken in by the message. It's about the message, not about you. And that just takes pressure off of us, too. It's not about me. That's a good point. Yeah. So to me, the first thing I want to leave you with as audience is it's about the message. Remember that. And then the second thing is grow yourself as a communicator. Don't just say, I'm just going to keep do my best because we can learn from others.
I need to keep studying. I need to keep listening. I need to keep having people critique me so that I can grow as a communicator. So grow yourself in, in as you, as a communicator, so that you can become more effective. Because it is a stewardship, I believe when you have an opportunity to teach, to preach, to communicate, you want to do it well. And I think Nathan is a great example for us. He puts some sweat into it ahead of time. Let me quote, again, Howard Hendricks.
When you get up to speak, somebody sweats. Either you sweat beforehand or your audience sweats during. So what he's saying is put the sweat in ahead of time, work, develop yourself, and then study so that your audience can relax and they get it rather than they're sweating because this guy doesn't have a clue he hasn't prepared well, or he doesn't know how to do it, or he hasn't connected. So Wow. That's that's some powerful stuff to to leave us with.
And again, that sense of stewarding this message God has given us and and presenting it well. Well, you've given us a lot to think about today, Rick and I really appreciate your time coming on the podcast today. Thank you. It's been a privilege and honor to be here. Thank you. In this episode, Rick Rhodes outlined principles for good communication and why that matters.
And that really sums up one of the main goals we have here at Anabaptist Perspectives, where we want to have honest conversations about the things that matter most to Christians and their walk with Christ. This podcast is made possible by listeners just like you, so if you don't mind, take a minute to leave us a rating, a review or a like on this episode helps more people find this podcast. And of course, you can find all our content on our website at anabaptistperspectives.org.
In the description down below. We'll put links to some of Rick Rhodes's work and any other resources that might be helpful for you. Thanks again and we'll see you in the next episode.