And when I got to the door, he took me by the arm, walked me around the corner, backed me up against the wall, and then he just kind of leaned over me and he told me what you did was wrong. And if you're ever going to be the kind of person I thought you were going to be when you are an adult, you have a lot to learn about how to relate to people and how to deal with problems and what you're going to do now.
You're going to go back in the shop, you're going to find that shop foreman, you're going to apologize to him for what you just said, and you're going to tell him that you are willing to drive that front end loader as long as you need to the way it is. And if he ever gets it into the shop to fix it, you'll say, thank you. Well Merle Burkholder, thanks for coming on the Anabaptist Perspectives podcast. You have a lot of varied life experience. Been in ministry for something like 45 years.
Served in church leadership. You've traveled quite a bit in ministry. all around the world. And As we were prepping for these episodes, we were thinking, you know what? What are some topics we can do with you? And one thing I know about you is you're a bit of a storyteller. and, and people really enjoy your stories. And so we're like, well, it'd be great to, to do some stories with you. And one of the things you've worked on is things
you've learned throughout your life from these different experiences. So. Maybe a little different than our typical episode, where I have a topic and ask all these questions and things. I would like to just hear some of those lessons and some of those stories. So however you'd like to begin and wherever you'd like to go with it. and we'll just, see where it takes us. Okay. Thank you Reagan. Yeah. God has given me the opportunity to do a lot of things in life that have been interesting, and.
And, I am a storyteller, so that, is true. but here's some things. one of the things that I've learned in life is that there will be misunderstandings. I will misunderstand other people, and other people will understand me, misunderstand me. And trust is so foundational to just trust that people's intentions are good and that, there's probably things I just didn't, didn't understand. things that that, happened that I, I misunderstood what was what was being said.
I think about one time, in Canada, there was a man that I would buy firewood from, and we lived about ten miles outside of town. and he would bring my firewood out there and, and then we were going to move into town. And so he came, brought me a load of firewood, and we were talking and he said, I hear you're moving out of the country. And I'm thinking, oh, he knows I'm from the United States. And he thinks I'm moving back to the United States.
And I was like, no, I'm not moving out of the country. And and he was like, well, that's what I heard. I heard you're moving out of the country and it's, No, we're just moving into town. And he said, that's what I said. You're moving out of the country. And I was like. Oh, yeah, well, yeah. I am moving out of the country and and, I realize, you know, I, I totally misunderstood. I put my own assumption onto what he was saying.
because I'm thinking I'm sensitive about being a dual citizen, sensitive about being an American living in Canada. And and so I my mind immediately went to he thinks I'm moving back to the, to the United States. another time I think about was, well, we lived in Haiti for a year, and, we were, we were, building a church building when we got there, the people knew that the mission had land to build a church on, and they had the money to build the church.
And so they automatically assume that this American family's coming here. And so they're going to build the church. And so after I got enough of language ability, people started asking me, when are you going to start building the church? And I was like, I don't know anything about a church. I'm not building a church building. I'm not a builder. You don't want me to build a church building. It's not going to be good. And, and, so they were, they were disappointed.
And I was disappointed because they were disappointed. And so we talked about it and I said, well, in Canada, if that was the case, what we would do is we would hire a contractor to supervise it, and we would get together and we'd volunteer, and we would build the church building under the supervision of a contractor. And and there was a man in the church that was a mason. Let me talk to the mission and see if they'll hire him to supervise it.
And we could have workdays and we could all work together and we could build a church building. So the mission was agreed, and they were. And so we started building a church building. It was 36 by 72. And we had to dig a foundation. We had to dig a footer, about 48in deep and to hit the subsoil. We didn't have any power equipment. Everything was done by hand. And so we worked and worked. after about a month, we were up to ground level and and then, we went on from there.
But every week we would have a workday, when everybody would come and and work together on the church. There was one man in the church that had a job. He had a formal job, he was highly respected because he had a job. Most people well, he was the only one in the church that had a job. And he worked from Monday to Thursday, had off Friday, Saturday, Sunday and could never get a day off.
So at the end of the service one Sunday, the pastor said, okay, on Tuesday we're going to have a work day and who can come raise your hand if you can come help with the workday. So I noticed that Brother Jeremy raised his hand. I thought, That's interesting. I didn't know he could get a day off of work, and but apparently he's he's going to come. So after church, I met him before he went home and I said, okay, I'll see you on Tuesday. And he's like, Tuesday, Tuesday, what's Tuesday?
And I said, well, the workday. Oh, he said, I can't come, I'm working. And I said, well, I saw that you raised your hand and said you were going to come. Oh. He said, well, I raised my hand because I'm a church member and I should come and I want to come, but I can't, and everybody knows I can’t. but I'm just saying that I would come if I could and I'm willing to come and. But everybody knows I can't come. So that's interesting.
So I asked the pastor, I saw that Brother Jeremy raised his hand and said he's, you know, for the workday and, and, but do you think he's going to come? No. He said he's not going to come. He said he works and he can't get a day off. But he said it's really good he raises his hand because then everybody knows that he would come if he could and he wants to come. And then the people who can come, They realize, well, yeah, he would come so I can so I should.
So he said he gets more people's hands up and it's good he raises his hand. So I was like, okay. So then the workday came and I thought, I'm going to ask some other people. So I would get beside some of the men and there's no trees there. We're all working in the hot sun and and you know, it would have been nice to have a few more people. And so I'd get beside different men.
And I would say, you know, this is really hard work and, it's hot here and we could use more people and I'd try to get them in a negative frame of mind. And then I would say, and you know what I saw on Sunday that brother Jeremy raised his hand and said he was going to come and help with the work project, but I haven't seen him and you know, have you seen him? No, and. and every one of those men, without fail, they would say to me, you shouldn't talk like that. Like he would come if he could.
And he raises his hand because he wants to come, but he can't. And I realized I was the only person in that church that thought that because he raised his hand, he was physically going to come and help with the work project. Everybody else knew it just meant he wants to come, and he would if he could. But I didn't understand culturally. I didn't understand what was what that what raising his hand really meant.
And, you know, sometimes we get into other cultural situations and we see things and we interpret it in one way, but maybe everybody else interprets it a different way and we can start saying, well, people lie. They say they're going to come and then they don't come and, and, but maybe, maybe we didn't understand what was really being said. And, and and then we lose trust.
And when trust is lost, then relationships really nosedive and things go downhill and and eventually it can become almost irreconcilable. And so, communicating and finding out, what didn't I, where there things here that I didn't understand and or did I misunderstand what you were saying? And that can clear up a lot of, a lot of mis just misunderstandings and, and often the things that we think people mean when it doesn't seem right isn't what they meant at all.
And, and communication is the solution to that. And just being able to talk and just ask people, well, what do you mean? What were you trying to say? can clear up a lot of those things. Like not jumping to conclusions right, or assumptions or judgment of that person until you know more, right. So what other lessons would you would you have? Well, another one would be that I'm not always right. And, I need I need guides and I need the Holy Spirit’s guidance in, in my life.
And there are times when I need people to tell me when I've been, when I've been wrong. I grew up in a bit of a business family. My dad had was partners in a business, and it was a concrete business. And so I would work in his business, in the summers when I wasn't in school. And I was probably the stereotypical boss's son, I thought I had a lot more authority and power than I did, because after all, I eat dinner with the boss every night.
So maybe you should pay attention to me. And what I say and what I think. And so I think I was a little arrogant and, and, I had a bit of a overrated opinion of myself. And one summer I was driving front end loader and there was a cement salesman that came into that business. He came every week and he would sell my dad's cement.
And when he would come in the summertime when I was there, he would go in the office and talk to my dad about buying cement, and then he'd come out in the plant and find me and and, he would take me to the break room and buy me a mountain dew. And he talked to me, and and he would take me to places and do stuff with me. And I knew he didn't have to do that to sell cement. I knew he I knew he liked me for some reason. And I was 14 and he was 50.
And it was just it was a significant relationship for me. And so I was driving this front end loader and there was a problem with the steering. And I had talked to the shop foreman about fixing it and nothing was happening. So I was kind of frustrated about that. And one day the steering wheel spun around and there was a knob on the steering wheel, and it hit me on my crazy bone in my elbow, and I was like...
So I jumped off of the front end loader, went into the shop and I found the shop foreman and, and, I told him what I thought of his ability to schedule things in the shop and fix things, and I just told him how it was and and how or I, how I thought it was. And then I turned around to go out of the shop, and there was Sam, this cement salesman standing in the doorway, and he had seen the whole thing.
And when I got to the door, he took me by the arm, walked me around the corner, backed me up against the wall, and then he just kind of leaned over me and he told me what you did was wrong. And if you're ever going to be the kind of person I thought you were going to be when you are an adult, you have a lot to learn about how to relate to people and how to deal with problems and what you're going to do now.
You're going to go back in the shop, you're going to find that shop foreman, you're going to apologize to him for what you just said, and you're going to tell him that you are willing to drive that front end loader as long as you need to the way it is. And if he ever gets it into the shop to fix it, you'll say, thank you. And he said, I'm going with you. So. So we went into the shop and I found the shop foreman.
I apologized, I told him, I'll drive the front end loader as long as I need to the way it is, and if he ever fixes it, I'll say thank you. And then Sam took me to the break room, bought me a mountain dew, and everything was fine. But that was tremendously valuable. I hadn't seen him. He could have walked away and said, well, I guess Merle's not going to be the kind of person I thought he was going to be, and.
But he cared enough about me to take me around the corner and tell me what I had done wrong, how to fix it, and then go with me to actually actually fix it. And I need people like that. in, in my life. probably another story, probably, 25 years ago, my wife and I were in we were facing a decision that she knew in 30s what we should do.
And it took me about three months to figure it out, because I felt like I was in a situation where no matter what I did, I was going to violate something that I really believed in and that I tried to live by. And so I just couldn't. I couldn't make a decision. And I was stuck. And it affected our relationship. It was a difficult time. And, so during that time we were going to visit a, we were came to the States
and we were going to visit a couple that, is about 20 years older than us. And, this man's been, you know, a man who I talked to and, like, who I knew cared about me. And and so I thought, okay, we're going to be at their house. I'm going to tell him this whole situation, and I'm just going to do whatever he tells me to do, so that's what I'm going to do. So we went and, our wives went shopping and we're sitting in the living room.
So I told him my whole sad story and where it was at with this decision, and he just kind of leaned back in his chair and said, well, you'll be all right. Like my wife and I went through something like that when we were about your age, and and, you'll be okay. And I thought he didn't understand what I said, like, no, I'm not going to be okay, like, I need I just need him to tell me what to do. And so I told him the whole thing again. I said, so what shall I do?
And he just kind of said, you'll be okay. and we went through something like that to and and you'll be all right. Well, I went away from that. I was really frustrated. I was like, come on. Like I was going to I was ready to do whatever he told me to do. And then he doesn't tell me anything. And, and, that wasn't helpful at all. And I was kind of upset about it. And then about three days later, I thought, wait a minute. Like, what did he say?
He said, when I was your age, we went through something like similar and you'll be okay. So he's from his perspective now, 20 years later, he's not even worried about me. And so probably 20 years from now, I'll look back on this decision and say, well, it turned out all right. And I just needed, I just need to make a decision. And, and that helped me to get off center and get unstuck and feel like I can decide something.
But it was that perspective from a little further down the road that helped me to. So I just needed that encouragement and that confidence that you're going to be okay. don't don't worry about it. and then we, we have those people who are influential in our lives and who are directed to us, and then we also get to do that for other people.
and we get to, we get to, to give guidance and some input and direction to other people because the whole principle, the book of Proverbs, is that wisdom can be passed on from one generation to another, and that but we only do that if we're willing to invest in the lives of other people, and we're willing to some of what we receive, we pass on to others. So there was a man that there is a man that I've known for, probably 40 years now.
And, when he was nine years old, his dad was a, a Mennonite pastor. But when he when this man was nine years old, his dad came home, gave him a bag of candy and said, I'm leaving. I'm never coming back. You're the man of the house now and left and never came back.
Well, this man and I have had a lot of conversations about the impact of that in his life and just living without a father, and how that affected, affected his ability to make decisions and just his own sense of confidence and direction in life and and the pain that he experienced as, a child and as a growing into adulthood without a father in his home. And, and it was just devastating for him.
Well, almost unbelievably, when his he had three boys and when his sons were about the age that he had been when his father left, he left his wife and moved in with another woman. And I just couldn't hardly believe it. I just and his wife came to our house with her three boys said she doesn't know what to do and she knew where he was. and the town where he was was about three hours from where we lived. And she knew he worked in the grocery store.
Well, I, after a couple days, I decided I'm not going to let him do that. Like, he he knows what his dad did. And I'm, I'm not going to let him repeat that. So I went over. Drove over there. I walked into the grocery store, and I found him there stocking shelves. And so I asked him, what are you doing here? He said, I'm working here. I tell him, well your wife and sons are at my house. And you know how you felt when your dad left. And I don't think you want to do that to your boys.
it's just wrong. And so you need to come back with me... figure out whatever you need to do with your wife and get things resolved. And and be with your family. No, he said, I'm not not going to do that. And, I said, well, you know, it's the right thing to do, and you know, what you're doing is wrong. And, so why can't you come back? And he said, well, I'm working here. I have a job. I said, yeah. And up in the corner of the store is the office.
And two weeks ago you walked in here and you asked that man for a job, and he gave you a job, but what you did was wrong. And what you're going to do now is you're going to go up to the office and you're going to tell that man, you can't work here anymore because you're getting back together with your wife and you're leaving town. And if he's any kind of a man, he'll respect you for what you're doing. So. And I said, I'm going with you. And, so we went up to the office and he quit his job.
And then he said, well, I have to go get my stuff at the house. And he said, that woman's going to kill me. No, she's not. I'll run interference with her. And, you get your stuff. And so we went over to the house, got his stuff, and went back and, and, and he and his wife got together, talked about their issues, and, you know, he and his wife are still together today. It hasn't been a an easy road, but.
And he and I have talked about it a number of times how his children's experience is so different from what his was. And he knows his grandchildren and he's there with his family. But we when people do things, when we experience things and we can we can do those things for other people as well, and it just becomes part of generationally helping each other to to walk on a good path. But I need guides and so do others.
And I can be part of, of, receiving guidance and input and correction and also giving it. Yeah. It's, it sounds like you were given a gift at one point in your life of some correction when you needed it, and then you're taking that on to the next in your own life and doing that for others. Yeah. It's not easy to do to do what you did, but it was it just this is the right thing to do, and I need to stand for what's right. And it was also somebody that I knew really, really well.
so I wouldn't have done that for just anybody. But yeah, I did know this man really well. That's powerful though. That's powerful though. yeah. What other what other lessons? Well, a wise man told me one time, you'll never make yourself happy with your own money. You can make other people happy with your money, but you'll never make yourself happy with your own money. That's. Ooh, I like that. That's pretty profound, actually. And I. And I think that's true.
And there are people that chase wealth and think that, well, if I just have a little more. I have this or that than I'd be. Then I'd be happy. And, it's a false narrative. It's not really true. It's, it's it's, it's a false dream to chase, to think that wealth is going to bring bring happiness. of course, we spent most of our lives in, in ministry, I have never, I haven't done things in life because of how much it pays. And, so, Yeah. Never have been, never will be a wealthy person.
But, when we lived in Dryden, there was a, a couple there business couple that we related to, and it was a wealthy business couple and, and, he was an agnostic. he felt like, well, he believed that you can't know if God exists. Maybe he does. Maybe he doesn't. And you don't find out until you die, and then it's too late.
So. And he and I had a lot of conversations about it, but, anyway, that was he maintained that that position he got in his strategy was that he would get involved in the church just enough that if he died and God did exist, he thought he'd be okay, but not too much so that if he died and God didn't exist, he hadn't wasted a lot of time and money in the church. So that was sort of his his strategy and. Odd philosophy Yeah, but it was kind of how he, he lived life.
And then and we had been to their we'd go to their house for dinner, they'd come to our house for dinner some times and, and, and we enjoyed talking to each other and, and then we went to Haiti. We lived in Haiti for a year. And when we came back from Haiti, he said, Merle, I want to have you come over to my cottage and, and, talk about Haiti. So he said, I'll meet you up by the Trans-Canada highway because it's a little challenging to find my cottage. And so he did, and it was good.
He did, because there were a lot of turns back, these little gravel roads back to his cottage on the lake. And, and my problem started when he met me by the Trans-Canada highway because he was driving a Jaguar, and I was driving a Ford Escort station wagon that wasn't too new. And, looking at his car and thinking, you know, we parked beside him when we got to his cottage and I'm looking in his car and thinking, that's a real car. And like, I wonder what wonder what he thinks of my car.
And I wonder what it feels like to drive a Jaguar like that. That would be. That would really be something. And, then went to their cottage. Well, their cottage, we'd been to their house, but this was their cottage, and their cottage was bigger and nicer than my house and that. Oh, this is yeah, this is really nice. And then he said, well, dinner's not quite ready yet, so, I'll take your family sailing. while we wait for dinner to be ready.
So he had a 40ft sailboat, and we went out on the lake sailing, and and I'm out on the lake with him sailing and I’m thinking, you know, this is how a person ought to live. This is. This is the way life should be done. You have the jaguar, the cottage, the sailboat. And this is this is living. This is this is how life should be done. And then we go back into the dock and and we were going to have dinner down on the dock and, and he said, now we're going to have dinner down here on the dock.
And, but after dinner we're going to go up to the cottage and talk about Haiti and, but we have a Jacuzzi on the dock. And so if your children want to go in the Jacuzzi while we go talk about Haiti, they could do that. And I'm thinking, now, he has a Jacuzzi, too. And and, so we're there, and we had steak and baked potatoes, and my steak and baked potato didn't taste very good because I was feeling sorry for myself. And I'm thinking, you know, like, I don't have anything like he has it all.
He has the Jaguar, the sailboat, the cottage, the jacuzzi, and and I had nothing. And the problem is, the way I'm living my life, I never will, and I even have to go to somebody else's house to eat steak. And it's just like my life is so miserable. And, then we get up to the cottage and we're talking about Haiti. And partway through the conversation, he turned to his wife and said, you know what, Pat? We should have got more involved in the church.
because he said, we never have done anything for anybody. We travel, but we just go look at stuff and come home. And he said, look at the things that Marle and his family did. Like, we don't know anything about that. Like we've never done anything like that. And you know, I just kind of find it kind of felt God talking to me and saying, you know what?
Like you were down there crying into your steak and baked potato and feeling sorry for yourself, but actually, if anybody should feel sorry for themself, it's him. Because, yeah, he has all the stuff. but he's never really done anything of significance, for people. And, you know, if I get to the end of my life and I had lived 70 or 80 years, and all I had was a sailboat and a Jaguar and a Jacuzzi, it's not. It's not enough. Like it's not worth it.
and the world's filled with people that are 45, 50 years old that met all their financial goals and are bored and don't know what to do with the rest of their life. And so chasing wealth is just kind of a it's a phantom and we'll never make ourselves happy with with the pursuit of wealth and the things that make a difference for eternity are the things that are really fulfilling and.
You know, the the path that God takes us on is it's a, it's a it's a life of adventure, because you don't know what he has coming next. And we'd like to have the 20 year plan, but he doesn't do that. And, and so it's it's exciting because you never know what God has around next year or that round the next bend. And it's also fulfilling because you realize it's making a difference for for eternity.
So, I think you had something, something powerful there where you said money, our own money won't, won't make us happy, but it can make other people happy in this sense of you can use it in service to others. Do you want to elaborate on that statement at all? Well, I think of, like when people have have needs and we are generous and give, we can bless people in their moment of need and what they experience is way beyond the joy of what we'll experience by keeping it.
And so it's true what Jesus said, that it's more blessed to give than than to receive. And in the church community, that giving and that caring for one another is just there's a blessing there that that is really, really powerful. When we lived in Haiti. one Sunday morning in Sunday school, the lesson in Sunday school was, I've been young and I've been old, but I've never seen the righteous forsaken or his seed begging bread. And the people were like, yeah, that's right, that's that's true.
And so that afternoon I was talking to the, the Haitian pastor, and I said to him now we had that verse in Sunday School, I've been young and I've been old and I've never seen the righteous forsaken or his seed begging bread. But you and I both have people coming to our house every day asking for food. So? So how can you say, yeah, that's true. When we have people. coming every day asking for food. So they are begging bread, right? And he's like, no, what you're what you're thinking is wrong.
He was saying, you will never see a person in our church at the market begging from the public. But we do tell each other what we need and we give to each other and we help each other. And so you will never see one of our church members begging bread from the general public. and there's that dignity in being able to give to someone else in their time of need that brings joy and and, yeah. To both, to both us as a giver and to the person who receives it.
That's so powerful because of the deception that comes with wealth is, is really hard to untangle. Yeah. Because it can feel like such a solution to life's problems. And maybe it's a, it's, I heard someone say money doesn't solve all your problems. It does solve money problems, but it doesn't solve the really deep things in life. You know, the search for joy and meaning and fulfillment and purpose. wow. That's that's. There's a lot to unpack there.
Yeah. I will say I'm glad you didn't, go for the sailboat and the Jacuzzi and the cabin because I feel like. Wow. You know how many of these stories that you have wouldn't even exist if you'd went that route? What other lessons do you have? What other lessons do you have? Well, I think, another one is, there is a god, and it's not me. And, God is sovereign. He knows what he's doing. And the reassurance is not only is he sovereign, but he's good and he loves me.
And so there are things that have not gone the way I thought they should go. And in Romans chapter 11 it talks about, you know, who is God's counselor, who's been his counselor, or who understands the mind of God. Well, I've had times when I was God's counselor. I told him what I thought he should do. And, and he doesn't... He doesn't always do it. And he doesn't do things the way I think it should be done. but I rest in that he knows what he's doing. I don't know what he knows.
And, And he he's good, and he loves me, but, there are things that just, didn't go the way I thought they. They should go. And sometimes we misunderstand who God is. Back when we lived in Dryden, I was on the board of the food bank, and it was just, a little. We rented a room that was just a small, small room. And the grocery stores donated all the food. And so our budget was basically the rental of, of the room, but we were giving food to between 90 and 100 families a week.
Out of that, out of that space that we had. But we had plans. We wanted to do Bible studies and financial literacy classes and cooking classes, but we had no room to do it. So we thought, well, rather than rent a bigger space, we should buy a building, and then we'd be able to do all those all those things. So we looked around at buildings and, buildings the size we needed at that time would have been maybe $150,000.
So we started a building fund and and we started talking to people about money for the building fund. And we weren't getting very much because people didn't think we were going to be able to raise $150,000. So we wound up after a number of months with maybe around $3,000. And, so we're thinking, oh, you know, the thing is, and there were people who would say, well, when you get close, let me know. Yeah, I want to help you. when you get close, let me know and I'll give you something and so.
But they didn't want to give us $5,000 or $10,000. Just have it sit in a bank account forever. So, at the point where they realized we were going to make it, then they were going to help us. So we thought, you know what? We need somebody who will give us a donation of $25,000 that will kickstart our building fund. And if we would have $25,000 in our building fund, then we could go back to all those people and say, okay, we're we're going to make it. so this is the time to help.
So we were praying for somebody to give us, $25,000. And during that time we had a, there was a trade show in Dryden, and the food bank had a booth at the trade show. And as board members, we were taking turns manning the booth at the trade show. So, I was taking my turn, and this man came by and he looks at the booth and goes, oh, the food bank. Tell me about the food bank. So I told him about the food bank, and he said, what do you need? And I said, well, we need spaghetti.
and he said, how much spaghetti do you need? I said, I don't know, but I'll give me your phone number and I'll call you and I'll find out and I'll tell you how much spaghetti we need. So, okay, I'll see that you have all the spaghetti you need. So he said, what else do you need? Well, we could use macaroni and cheese. And he's like, well, how much of that do you need? I don't know. When I call you about the spaghetti, I'll tell you about the macaroni and Cheese too. So he was like Okay.
And, then he started walking away, and he got maybe 20ft away. And then he came back and he said, do you know who I am? And I was like, no, not really. I've seen you around town, but I don't really know who you are. And he said, well, I own a restaurant here in town, and my wife is a doctor, and we've been in town about five years. And he said, I'd like to give back to the community.
And, and, I always thought the food bank would be a great way to do it because I'm in the food business and you're in the food business and we're Christians and you're a Christian organization. And so I just thought it was a perfect fit. But I never met anybody from the food bank before. And and so he said, this is the first time I've ever met anybody from the food bank. And so I was interested. And in what do you need? I said, well, do you want to know what we really need?
And he said, yeah, I've been trying to find out for the last 20 minutes and you won't tell me. And so I explained the whole building thing to him and, and he's like, well, what's the problem? And I said, well, people don't think we're going to make it. And he said, well, how much do you need? So we need $150,000 and we have a building fund. But he said, how much is in it? So we have 3000. And he just laughed at me and he said, so you're looking at $150,000 buildings and you only have 3000.
Yeah. Because we know God's going to give us some money. We just don't know when. And we want to be ready so that when he does, we're ready to buy a building. So he said, well, what's the problem? So I told him that people don't have the confidence we're going to raise it. And we've been praying for somebody to give us $25,000 to kickstart our building fund. And he said, my wife and I will do that. And I said, I'm not joking. And he said, I'm not either. You have my phone number, right?
I said, yeah, he said, call me when you're ready for the money. And so I did, and he gave the money. And today the food bank has a building. But, you know, sometimes I think when we're done praying, God would like to turn around and say, like, do you know who I am? I think we're asking for the spaghetti and macaroni and cheese of life, and and God's interested in those things. But but we're talking to the person who is the sovereign of the universe.
And and there's things that no human being can do for us that he can, and just bring those things to him as as the King of kings and Lord of lords, the person he really is. but then he doesn't always do things the way we think.
We had, my wife and I had a, well, we helped with a Sunday school on the reserve, and, on the reservation, and we tried to have, an adult Sunday school class, but the only adults that would come were people that would come and a few couple of ladies that would come when they were intoxicated. So, then we went to home Bible studies, and we started doing home Bible studies. And my wife had a ladies Bible study. There were a couple of ladies that came to the Lord and became Christians.
And, one of those ladies was the daughter of one of the ladies who would come to Sunday school, when she was intoxicated. So she was quite concerned about her mother. And and we were praying for her mother and, and then one day her mother was found passed out in a house and unresponsive, went to the hospital and things just started going downhill for her. And she got worse and worse. And, and, her daughter, who had become a Christian, was quite concerned about her mother's eternal destiny.
And, and her mother had gone to, Catholic school as a child. She and, of course, we had had interaction with her. She knew the gospel. And, we were, praying for her salvation. And I told her daughter, you know, they say that when a person dies, one of the last senses they lose is their hearing. And so your mother can probably hear us.
And so we went to the hospital room and we talked to her, and I told her, you know, you know, the way of salvation, like, you know about the Lord Jesus Christ, and you can receive Christ in your mind. You can you can give your life to Christ. And you know you're not well. And before you die, you can you can be sure of where you're going when you die. And, so I said, I'm going to pray a prayer and you can pray the prayer with me in your mind and, and receive Christ.
So I did, and and because there was no response. And then her daughter wanted to know, so did she do that? Like I, I don't want her to die without me knowing where she's going and what, where she's going to spend eternity. And so we were praying and I was asking God, like, just have her become conscious for 30s or something just so she can let her daughter know whether she accepted Christ or not.
And one day we were in her room and just telling her, like we, your daughter really wants to know if you become a Christian and if you have, if you could just squeeze my hand. but there was nothing. Well, she died, and I was really mad. I was really angry. I was like, God, that was really bad. Here's this lady who is a new believer. All she wants to know is where her mother is for eternity. You could have had her become conscious for 30s.
You could have had her squeeze my hand and you didn't like that... That wasn't good. And, well, in their community, after a person died within a week or so, somebody would have a dream about them and they would say, well, I saw that I had a dream about them last night, and they were in a good place. They were happy and and, and so then, then people would be okay. So they're okay now and, and well, nobody was having a dream about this lady. And, went a few weeks, then went a month.
And people started to talk about it like, why isn't anybody dreaming about her? What where did she go, what happened to her? And and why is nobody dreaming about her? And then after about two months, there was an old old man. And in their community, the elders are just highly respected. And this very old man came to her daughter and said, last night I had a dream about your mother, and she was in a good place.
She was happy, and she had one of those things on her head that the Sunday school teachers wear. And, because it had become a topic of conversation in the village about why nobody was having a dream about this lady, then that story spread. All. Over and everybody heard it, and everybody interpreted the fact that she had that thing on her head, that the Sunday School teachers wear, as she chose to go the Christian way, and it was just it was so powerful.
And I was like, oh, like, if she would have squeezed my hand and we would have told people that they would have said, yeah, lots of people twitch when they die and it wouldn't have it wouldn't have had any impact in the in the community. But the way God did that, it was like everybody, everybody was sure that she had chosen the Christian way, and it was just so much better than what what I would have done. And then we had, well.
We were praying for a man in the village to become a Christian, and I had some guys that I thought were pretty good prospects. They were pretty good people, and I thought it wouldn't take much for them to get saved. And so I'd be fishing with them and doing stuff with them. But I couldn't get them interested in studying the Bible and, and, and then a man, came to Christ who was an alcoholic. He would deal drugs and, and, he came to Christ and his wife got saved.
And so I started doing a Bible study with them. And he was the kind of person that nobody in the village could say, yeah, it'll work for him, but it won't work for me. Like, it was like, if he got saved, turned his life around. Anybody can. So we're. So then we said, okay, let's put our Bible studies together. My wife had this ladies Bible study. I was doing Bible study with this couple and let's put them together. So we're going to put our Bible studies together.
And I took out a list of Bible study books that we had. And so we're going to choose a book that we're going to do. And so I'm trying to direct them to something in the New Testament like the Gospel of John or something like that. And so we're going through the list and we, we had a Bible study book on Leviticus, and this guy, this man was like, so what's Leviticus about? And I said, it's no, you don't want to study Leviticus. Well, what's it about?
I said well, it's about sacrifices and dietary rules and, and and he sounds interesting. I said it's not like, believe me, it's not interesting. And so I'm trying to get them to we could do John or we could do this or that and but he kept saying well, I still think Leviticus sounds interesting. And then one of the ladies was like, well I sort of think Leviticus would be interesting too? And I realized I'm going to lose this. And so we agreed, okay, we're going to study Leviticus.
And then on the way home, I told my wife, that's a disaster. Like, I don't even want to study Leviticus. And here these are new believers and to study Leviticus. Like, why? Like it's it's going to fall apart. We're going to get two weeks into that and they're going to, they're going to lose interest. And, but I couldn't, I couldn't persuade them to do anything else. And, and so we started doing Leviticus. We got there the first week and we get into Leviticus chapter one.
And it's the sin offering. And it has to be a lamb a year old without blemish and you bring it. And the the person who, sacrificing it, has put his hand on its head and slit its throat and and all that. And they were like, that's really interesting. Like we have a sacrifice kind of like that. It's a different animal, but it has to be, a certain age. It has to be without any spots. It and there's a procedure you go through as to how it's killed and, and and it's, it's to be to atone for sin.
It's the same for the same purpose. And then we got into the, the grain offering and they were like, we have something like that in traditional religion. Like there's things you have to mix together and then you do it and it's, it's very similar to, to what this is. And then we get into, the wave offering where you wave the thing through the smoke and it's for cleansing. And they were like, that's like our smudging. And, and you wave, the smoke over you. And it's for cleansing.
The purpose of the smoke is the same thing. And and then we got to, some of the laws about personal hygiene and stuff and the ladies were like, that's what our grandmas told us. Like they told us that stuff. And then we got to I think it's chapter 25 where it says you can't own the land because it belongs to God. And they were like, we've been trying to tell you white people that for 500 years, and you think you can actually own. And we knew it belongs to the creator.
Then they started to say, so why is this so similar to our traditional religion? Why is it so much the same? And we well, where did you come from? Like when when human beings came off the ark, there was already a sacrificial system in place like, Noah sacrificed. So their people left the ark with a basic sacrificial system. And that sacrificial system pointed toward Christ.
And so just like the Jewish sacrificial system that's detailed here and in the Old Testament, pointed to Christ as the ultimate sacrifice for sin. The sacrificial system of traditional native religion points to Christ the need for a sacrifice and points to Christ. So Christ is the fulfillment of your traditional religious practices.
And and so this, man that was in the Bible study said, I'm going down to the medicine man, and I'm going to tell him, you think that this is our original religion, but what you don't know is all this stuff comes from the Bible. And and it was just like it connected with them, like a tendency would be for people to think, well, Christianity, that's the white people's religion.
But all of a sudden it was like, no it's not like it's our religion pointed us to Christ and we had a sacrificial system that pointed to Christ. And it it did something just for their sense of, of inclusion in the story, and that the Bible story is also about them and about their system. And so I just realized, you know what? Like I had plans and I have things that I think ought to be, but God is like, he’s just. He knows more than I do, and he has ways of making happen what needs to happen.
And so I just need to rest in. I'm not God. I don't know what God knows. And I can't do the things that God can do. And so he is sovereign, but he loves me and he's good. And so I can rest in that even when things don't go the way I think they should. That's powerful. And it's also hard because we humans, humans like to want to be in control of things, you know, or know what's happening. And, Yeah, be able to figure everything out. so learning to rest in that. Wow. That's a powerful lesson.
And it's probably pretty hard to to live out. It is. So, do you have more stories or anything else you would like to add to this episode? I think that's that's it. Wow. Well, thank you for sharing. and I think there's a lot of value in people that have had experiences like you've had and, and done a variety of things and being willing to pass that on. so I guess that's an encouragement for people listening.
You know, if they have stories of life lessons they can pass on to the next generation to encourage them to do that. And and I thank you for, for doing that on this episode. Yeah. You're welcome. Thank you for listening to this episode with Merle Burkholder. If you found this interesting, leave us a rating and review. It helps more people find this podcast.
And of course, you can find all our content on our website at anabaptistperspectives.org We also have an exclusive podcast that's available to people who support us. For a monthly donation of any amount you can get access to bonus content and a whole nother stream of content that we release there. It's available through our website or our Patreon page. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll catch you in the next episode.