Everybody. This is an episode that we originally ran on October of twenty twenty three, but April is a National Autism acceptance month, and in honor of that, we wanted to bring back to you one of our favorite episodes, which happens to be about autism with Army member Stacy Horst.
And it's kind of that epiphany moment that either we're going to do something or this might kill us and
we have another child and we can't do that. So we sat and talked about all those times when Aaron didn't get invited to birthday parties and didn't get the invitation to go to the football games, and didn't get asked to do things, and realized that if she had had somewhere to go where she felt safe and could have fun and it had absolutely nothing to do with therapy, just fun, just fun to be with other kids and meet other kids and create friendships, that she probably would
still be with us today.
Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in Inner City Memphis and the last part it unintentionally led to an oscar for the film about our team, which
is called Undefeated. I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits talking big words that nobody really ever uses or understands on CNN and five, but rather an army of normal folks, US, just you and me deciding, hey, I can help. That's what Stacy Horse the voice we just heard has done. Stacy's daughter Aaron, was bullied and excluded by her peers because she had autism, and tragically, that isolation led to her taking her own life at only
sixteen years old. Stacy and her husband Darren chose not to be victims, and they started the nonprofit Aaron's Hope for Friends to create physical clubs where kids with autism can hang out on the weekends and just be buddies, you know, enjoy friendships as we're all meant to. I can't wait for you to meet Aaron right after these brief messages from our generals sponsors. Stacey Horst, how are you.
I'm good?
How are you good? Welcome to Memphis, Thank you. I before we even begin, I've got to uh I got to give you props. You're one of what I hope is the first of many. But you're a groundbreaker for an army of normal folks. Did you know that?
No? I did not.
You are. And here's what it is. So far, every guest we've had, Alex, our producer, and Ironlight Labs and the people that make this show happen have worked really hard to find compelling stories of normal folks doing extraordinary things all over the country, and they found them through pouring through media and articles. And I guess it's good we're talking about this because one of the questions I get often is how do you find all these people?
And that's how they've done it. But you are the first of the organic what I'm gonna called the organic guest in that we didn't find you that way, you found us. I remember opening an email from you not that long ago. What was it a month ago? How long ago?
Probably two two and a half months.
Again, I think so. Yeah, early on in our release and Stacy Horst is our first organically grown army of normal folks guests. I wish I had a belder. Yeah you are. You are a woo hoo. This is a woohoo moment for us. And really you exemplify a microcosm of what the whole idea is. We're trying to grow a community that celebrates and listens and learns and and and grows off one another, and so you are the first of that community, and so you will always hold a special place in the history of an army of
normal folks, being the first organic guest we have. So, in a very real sense, welcome and thanks for being here.
Well, thank you, thank you for what you're doing.
Oh well, thank you for what you're doing. And I got to tell you when I read Juriemel and we're not going to get to it yet. Ah wow, my heart skipped to beat. And I find the work that you're doing to be remarkable. Frankly, the the depth of the of the person you and your husband are is immeasurable in my opinion, and and we're going to share all of that. So tell me about Rachel. Oh not now, Rachel coming up.
Rachel coming up. Oh wow, she's a lot of fun.
She loved fun.
No, she's just she was a very fun kid, very sassy, but very sweet. She was a good older sister. She you know, just she she loved the arts. She loved to she did. Both of our girls did everything. They played sports, they did arts, you know, involved in church and Rachel ended up both of the girls ended up going finishing school in Atlanta because that's where we ended up last. And she ended up going to Savannah College of Art and Design. And she's a photographer.
That's very cool. Yeah, she and she's married.
Now, she is, she's married. Her husband also went to SCAD and that's where they met.
Wow, that's the Archie family. Do they have kids.
They have one little boy who just turned.
To he's probably a meathead football player. And I'll never do the arts. That'll probably what will happen.
I don't know. We'll see, We'll.
See pretty art. We'll see, all right, And so tell us about erin Oh.
Aaron loved animals. Ain was a very sweet little girl, as we'll talk about. She was diagnosed with autism when she was three, and really her passion was animals. She also played sports. She played every sport known to man, and she loved to give away her stuff. Nothing that she had was hers. Everything she had could be somebody else's. If she saw that somebody needed something, she would come home and get it and go give it to him without telling us. By the way, she played the drums,
she was an awesome drummer. She was in a band and one of the kids at school, who was also in the band and played the drums, needed a kick pedal, and she had two. No, if you have kids that played musical instruments, but this stuff is not cheap.
It's expensive.
Yes, And she came home and took the kick pedal kick pedal back to school the next day and gave it away and we found out weeks later.
So she's a sweet kid, oh yeah. And loved animals, yes, and had a big heart. I gotta ask you how you know people listening to us are going to hear this whole story end up. But I gotta I gotta get to get to what you're doing and why I really want to put a face on both Aaron and your family. Three. Now, when you say she was diagnosed with you said level one autism. Is that how you say it? I think that was formally referred to as Asperger's.
Am I right about the Yes? Why don't we call it Aspergers anymore?
That's a good question. I'd like to know that myself. They chose to change the DSM five which is where you go for diagnoses, and they put they lumped everything under ASD, which is Autism spectrum disorder. Why they did that, I don't know. Because these teens, young adults, children who are in level one or aspergers are and can be much different than what level three would be, which could be nonverbal tantrums.
How many levels are there?
Three?
There are three, so I'm assuming then one is the slightest level, then two, then three is the deepest level. I'm asking. I don't know, I really is that right?
Yes, that's right.
So many people are blind to autism that they don't really understand. I mean, you know, is a level one person functioning in a way that maybe you wouldn't know unless you just got up close and talked to them. Because I hear you say, she'll have animals, she played sports where she you know, mainlined in school. You see what I'm saying, explain that existence.
I think that it's yes. I think that you can look at people in level one and unless you go up to them and have a conversation with them, because basically one of their biggest deficits is their social interactions like you and I are sitting here looking at each other in the eye having a conversation, where they find that extremely difficult to look you in the eye and
to have a conversation on point. For example, if Aaron was in a group and they're talking about going to a football game, and they were having a conversation and she wanted to add something to the conversation, she would be standing there thinking about what she wanted to say for probably sixty ninety seconds before it would come out of her mouth. Well, for us, sixty or ninety seconds is a long time, and we've already we've already moved on,
Like we're not talking about the football game anymore. We're talking about where we're going to have dinner or what we're going to eat. So when they choose to say something, then they're behind And sadly, that's where a lot of them get ridiculed or bullied because they're trying to fit in and yet they're behind the eight ball in terms of the conversation. And it's really a social thing, but they're you know, their brilliance is amazing.
Could Aaron verbalize the world she saw differently than everybody else to you, and would she do that with you?
Oh?
Absolutely? What would she say? What would the what did the how did the world look different to Aerin as a child with autism level one than it would do you and me? Can you give me an example to help me? And the listeners kind of go oh, you know, I didn't realize that they would see it that differently. I mean, how would she verbalize that she would see things that were different than the way you would see them.
I think the biggest thing is the level of compassion, the level of emotion. So how how she felt and saw in certain situations, whether it's at school, whether it's at home, in the neighborhood with friends. It's like a richer emotion, if you will, of caring for other people, where I would say, I don't want to say, like we're more crass and we just go about our day and do what we want to do. But she, you know,
we do sense other people. But she would sense other people's emotions, and especially in the essence of someone was sad, if someone was hurt.
And now a few messages from our general sponsors, But first I hope you'll consider following an army of normal folks on all of our social media channels for more powerful content, which is also great for sharing to help grow the army. Our handle is at Army of Normal Folks on all of them except Twitter, which I gets this is X these days, which is interesting because everybody says X formally called Twitter, so we might as well
just call it Twitter whatever. At Army normal folks. We'll be right back, I said earlier when I got your email that you know, it resonated with me deeply. So my wife is she might kill me. She's fifty one, and she has a sister that's in her forties and that's the youngest, actually late thirties through youngest. She has a brother that's in her forties. But when I met Lisa, her little brother was eight and his name's Ben, and he's special needs, and his special needs is a result
of him having encephalitis when he was an infant. Ben is highly functional but has the mental capacity of you know, maybe a first grader in that range. And one of the beauties of Ben is that he can go to Florida on trips, right, He can ride a he can ride an airplane, and he can go with us to family vacations and go out to eat and eat well, and he can feed himself and dress himself and bathe
himself in all of those things. But I have watched my in laws spend the last thirty two years of their life caring for Ben in a way that is heroic. They gave him every opportunity that they could give him within his capabilities, to have as normal life as possible, while also protecting him from the things that he can protect himself from. He's been beaten by staff, care staff before, he's uh, He's endured trauma, and he has at times
expressed his deep sadness and grief that he wasn't normal. Heartbreaking, but in the same respect, a real blessing to our family. When I read your email, I felt you deeply. And the reason I want to know what you felt like when you found out that at three that Aaron had I don't know to call it Asperger's, but I think that's woke, incorrect, level one whatever was a child with level one autism. I think that's why I was supposed
to say it properly. I mean no disrespect. I think I know a little bit about what kind of shock that was to your family dynamic, and it is to be perfectly candid, gut wrenching, but it's also what God's put in your life, and it's a blessing you've been giving and you go to work.
Absolutely, So what that work look.
Like from three to call it eight or nine years old for you and Darren? And and why I asked so much about was Rachel because I also understand the dynamic of my wife when she was a teenager trying to figure out her stuff, having a special needs brother, and that's tough. H So tell me about that dynamic you did?
Well, Like what you said, you go to work. I mean you find out whatever interventions you can do, whatever treatment you can do, training, anything to try and give them. I mean she went to speech therapy, occupational therapy. I mean, I think we did every kind of therapy known to man.
You're driving her all over the place, huh, everything you can. Yes, And there was if it's anything like my experience, that there was no thing that might make her life a little bit better that you wouldn't drop and go do.
Yes. Absolutely, and y'all did that. Oh yeah, how did it affect Rachel? That's a good question. Now I think that it's I mean I saw it as you're talking about your wife, Lisa. Uh yeah, yeah, I mean you're you're a teen who's trying to figure out your own way in life, and you have a special needs sibling, and I know that a lot of time and energy is spent trying to I want to see, make that right, but to help Aaron. And so therefore, you know, there is time that I think that's taken away from the
other child. And then it's hard when Rachel's trying to figure out her own thing and she has a sister that wants to come with everywhere, everywhere, and you know, Rachel would have people over to the house and they'd be down in the basement, and you know, of course Aaron wants to be a part of it. One of the beauties of aspers And I call it that because that's what she was diagnosed with.
Good if you call it that, I can, yes, you can.
You know she would now lest we turn it back, because we talked about that. But you know, Rachel, Aaron wanted to be everywhere, and oh, I know the blessing was that Aaron got along really well with people older than her and young kids. It's the it's the peer to appear relationship. That is the struggle. So all of Rachel's friends.
She loved her, oh yeah, well, and she.
Loved him because she could go over and she could talk to them. And I'm sure for her it was like being normal, what she thought normal was like. But that also got in Rachel's.
Way so well. And the reason I ask is, you know again, I think it's really important for people listening to us to understand that when and Aaron or Been come along in your life, it's a family occurrence.
It is a.
Life altering and many times for the better. I don't want to make it sound like it's all negative, because but there is. But you know, frankly, people cringe when you say there's negatives, But there is negatives. It's just the reality of it. There's difficulties, it's tough. It does change family dynamic. It doesn't mean it's all bad and it doesn't mean you resent. But the reality is there's some tough there's some tough things that come along with
all of it. And it's important for people to understand that parents and families with kids like Ben or like Aaron with Aspergers are going through their own difficulties to try to make the best life they can for their child, and a little understanding and support not only for the person with Aspergers, but the family's caring form is really important. Absolutely, did you have that?
I think in the beginning, you feel like you're on an island exactly why asked? Yeah, you know, you feel like you're on an island and you're trying to figure out how to get off and what's going to be the best way to get off, And through time and being involved in different things, I think that you acquire that group or that support, but in the beginning, you definitely feel like you're out there all by yourself.
Which we will come back to in terms of the importance of the work that you're now doing, because I think the work that you're now doing is not only really vital for people with Aspergers, but also for the family surrounding them. So as a parent with a kid struggling with this, and you're struggling, and I know, you've got to be proud. I mean, she's sweet, she's cooking, she's caring for kids, she's playing sports, doing all these things.
But then she's also a kid with autism. And I'm not making excuses, but I remember Ben, And you can't really expect twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen year old kids to really deeply understand someone who's not like them. And I'm not excusing bullying or being off putting, but I've seen it, you know. And did Aaron feel different.
In what way?
Well? Did she get invited to birthday parties?
Ah? No, oh, absolutely they feel different? Yeah, no, they don't.
And did she verbalize how that hurt her?
In the essence of saying, you really found out about it more after the fact, because you wouldn't really know as a parent if my child's not invited, I don't know that that's happening, right until she finds out that so and so had a birthday party and she wasn't invited. Well, then you find out, Well, did she ever.
Come to you and say, Mom, why am I not getting invited to the birthday parties? Did she ever verbalize that kind of thing? I?
You know, I think that she did. I'm trying to remember one specific occasion, but I can tell you with the beginning of social media, I mean, that's made it.
Because she's seeing all our friends on Facebook at parties and stuff, or not her friends, but her classmates yes, or peers right and she's not there correct, then I hurt her.
Yes, and you knew it, We knew it, and she would say stuff. But I can't. I can't remember like one specific situation where she came to us.
And I can't imagine.
But yes, I mean, the social media is, although it can be beautiful, it's awful.
I can't imagine the I mean, you had to have just your heart had to broke for her.
It breaks now just thinking about it.
I'm sorry to take you back through it. I just looked, well, I really want people to understand why you're doing what you're doing. And until people really get the depth of this and I understand the depth of it, I've I've watched it. I've I've watched people do the you know,
the making fun of bad jerking hands or whatever. I can't even verbilize what I'm saying, but you know, people will do certain things that simulate or articulate non verbally special needs people, and I've watched them do that behind Ben's back before, and frankly, I've wanted to beat there.
I'm right there with you, so I said earlier, nobody better give me a gun.
Yeah, I mean it will not end well, it's it's it's wrong on so many levels. But what it is is it's it's a lack of maturity and understanding again of what an entire family goes through. We'll be right back.
I think that it's and I say this because for anybody who hears this podcast, if you're having struggles with a child, regardless of whether they have autism or not, if they're being bullied, you have to have to have to just make sure that you are alert. Aaron was bullied at church, she was bullied at school, she was bullied in sports.
And did you see it? Did you see it happen?
Again? You find out after the fact, But how can you go, you know? And at church she went on she went on a camp retreat and she was in a cabin with three other girls. And the three other girls went to the counselor sor it's okay, asked if they could leave the cabin, and they let the other three girls leave the cabin and left our daughter there by herself on a camp at church. So it can
happen anywhere. It could happen online, which it did. It happened through email and all these things and to your point when you asked me if she told us before when that email came to her, she walked downstairs with her computer and showed us what it said. Yes, I said, basically that she was horrible and she should kill herself.
Then it came from a classmate.
Three classmates at school, and she went to a school for children with disabilities. Oh my gosh, so nowhere is safe, I guess you could say. And I hate to say that, you know, it breaks my heart, but it's true. So anyway, these things were happening, and she had talked prior about not wanting to live, and we had been going to a counselor and a psychiatrist and you know, put her on antidepressants because she, you know, was obviously not happy
and didn't want to be here anymore. And that's when we went through the big snowstorm in Atlanta that shut the world down, and we were actually looking at different schools to move her to a different school. And she had gone and tried a new school the day before, and I think that she was scared to death that she was going to have to go back to the other school that she was currently at. And she made
a huge thing of Lasagna. We were having the neighbors over because everybody was stuck in their houses because it had snowed, And I went to pick up one of our elderly neighbors in my car across the street because you couldn't walk it was so icy, And unfortunately Aaron went upstairs and took her own life in her room.
I'm so so sorry. I cannot imagine that pain. And I guess you'd come home to that.
Yeah, my husband was at home. He found her, and then I came in and we tried to called nine to one one and tried to resuscitate her.
Nobody deserves that, I h do you need to take a break? You good? I'm fine, strong woman. So that's what happens when people get bullied, and that's what happens when kids with special needs have to live in a world where people are too uninformed and too selfish to care beyond themselves. And like I said before we heard the outcome of Aaron's life is that this is a thing that an entire family deals with in life and
in death. And I think we can all agree it's one of the worst things in the world, is the thought of a parent outliving a child and the trauma that that causes a family. You, however, have managed to figure out a way to turn that on its head, which is what we're going to get to and celebrate. But one last thing before we get there, what happens next?
Before you go to work? You're dealing with grief. You've got your kid's belongings, you've got another daughter, You've got a husband and a wife who are both traumatized in both feeling all of their own and stop, probably oddly, including maybe even some guilt and what ifs and all of that crap you got to go through. How long did that last?
What's today?
Yeah?
Seriously, it hasn't stopped that. You know, it's I don't I have met I haven't met another parent who's lost a child. That still, to the day that I meet them, you still are going through all that. You still go through the what ifs, You still go through the guilt, You still wonder what could I have done? What you know, what could I have done differently? So I don't think it's there. There is no end to that. There won't be an end to that until I see Aaron in heaven.
Say you carry with the rest of your.
Life, I think so.
So when I was in ninth grade on Daddy number four, I got into a fight that I started. I didn't really start it. He was kind of a jerk, but I started. I started the fight part. And it was an unwise decision by me because he doted by pretty good. But anyway, I had to go to the coach's office because back then, if you were a football player and you got into a fight, that incidior print of all you went to coach office. Coach Spain, who's past now, was my coach and he took a pretty special interest
in me. He was a guy from a little town called Myland, Tennessee, where they go cotton, no nonsense, old school, raw boned guy and was that way as a coach. But was one of these guys who had the ability to really be in tune with not just a football player, but the person you know, and he took He was really a mentor somebody. I just I think every high school kid kind of worships their football coach, at least they did back in my day, but it was on
another level with him. And so I was in his office at the door closed, and he asked me why I did what I did. And I just told him I was angry, and he said, well, you got a lot to be angry about. He said, you know, I understand you're going through a lot of stuff. And he said and he said, but you know you're you're a strapping young guy. And he said, you really have a decision to make. Billy, back then, I was Billy. He said,
you really have a decision to make. Billy said, you can decide to be a victim of all of the chaos and trauma and dysfunction that's in your life and be just like them.
Or.
You can denounce it, recognize it's a wonderful illustration about how not to live your life, and you can be a rock that other people break themselves on.
I love that, he said.
You can decide, he said, And I can tell you this right now. You at your age, can't control any of the dysfunction you're dealing with in your life, but you can absolutely control what you decide to do about
it with it. And I'm not going to say it was that very instant that I had an epiphany, but it was the beginning of me deciding that I was going to denounce victimhood of my circumstances and be a rock other people can to break themselves on, and that I was going to rise above it and quit feeling sorry for myself and recognize that everybody has trauma, everybody has problems. The level of the difficulty in some people's lives are certainly more than others, but everybody experiences stuff.
And I could either fall, pray to it and be a victim of it and feel sorry for myself ended up just like them, or I could be a rock other people are going to break themselves on. And I think there's certain times in our life that we all have an opportunity to demonstrate our willingness to be a victim or a rock. Absolutely, when is it you decided to be a rock?
Four days after she passed away?
Tell me about that day.
As you were talking about before we you know, you were obviously living in the house and all of Aaron's belongings are there, and she passed away in her bedroom, so we were going through her stuff.
Oh gosh, I'm sorry to interrupt you that. How do you do that?
I don't know.
That's a days after your child's gone and you're going through her stuff. In her room.
We just went in and sat on the floor and it's kind of that epiphany moment that either we're going to do something or this might kill us and we
have another child and we can't do that. So we sat and talked about all those times when Aaron didn't get invited to birthday parties and didn't get the invitation to go to the football games, and didn't get asked to do things, and realized that if she had had somewhere to go where she felt safe and could have fun and it had absolutely nothing to do with therapy, just fun, just fun to be with other kids and meet other kids and create friendships, that she probably would still be with us today.
So, with Aaron still heavy on their hearts and minds, Stacy and her husband Darren created that place and she tells that incredible story in part two, which is now available, And I'm telling you, guys, you do not want to miss it. But if for some strange reason you do, make sure to join the Army of Normal Folks at Normalfolks dot us and sign up to become a member
of the movement. By signing up, you'll also receive a weekly email with short episode summaries in case you happen to miss an episode or you prefer reading about our incredible guests. Together, guys, we can change this country, and it starts with you. I'll see you in Part two.