Hey there, everybody. It is Saturday, April fourth, and there is a new theory out there that might explain a lot for women who are confused because yes, we all say we want to be with someone easy going, but according to the plastic bag theory, we actually don't.
And with that everyone, welcome to Amy and TJ.
Who said that's what women want. What'd you say? They said?
Someone easy going?
I think we all think a lot of times as women that we just want a guy to just go with the flow, easy going, non confrontational.
Does that sound good? I mean, as we sit here now, like women listening right now, does that it sounds pleasant?
Does it sounds peaceful.
In theory, yes, And I think they say, especially women maybe who have come out of a previous relationship with something that felt toxic or exhausting or combative, and so they just want a guy who's like, yes, dear, yes.
Dear, yes, dear, So beyond a chill demeanor. It's one thing somebody could just be a little more laid back, but it's beyond that. It's someone who is not going to confront a yes man. Yes, Okay, that sounds bad.
Though exactly, but this is what women if you ask them what they want, a lot of folks, a lot of women might just say, I want somebody who's just easy going, who's a go with the flow kind of guy.
Okay, th will sound great. What I'm saying this sounds like it puts it in a different category, easy going, go with the flow versus we'll do what I want and won't put up resistance.
Part of yes, part of the example.
So here is what the This is how a plastic bag man is described.
That sounds awful.
I know it does sound awful.
Plastic bag came up.
With this term that's basically doing like bananas on social media.
Everyone's talking always Okay, some man came up with a theory for what women want. We should stop the episode.
Now, yes, this is a guy on social media.
He has brought this back to light and now several news articles have been written about it because it's.
All over social media.
But they're talking about basically low maintenance men who don't This is how it's described. They don't initiate or plan anything. They go with the flow, wait for the partner to make all the plans in the relationship. They don't argue or overreact, go along with whatever you want.
But here's the deal. This is what.
Was described, not my words, someone else, is that a plastic bag man has the spine of a flaccid plastic bag just going down the river has.
The spine of I hear you say that, right, yeah, okay, I want to go through your list again. Low maintenance. That doesn't sound bad, right, not at all? Do you say, don't plan ahead, don't plan anything? Wait? Right?
So from where we're eating tonight, what we're ordering in tonight, where we're going on vacation, who we're hanging out with any.
So, all right, I'm so sorry. And folks, if you don't know, we do these sometimes on the weekend. I don't get a heads up about what these new trends are. So I'm learning about it as we go and as you all go along. I want to go through your list. They describe it low maintenance was the first one. What was the next thing?
Low maintenance. They don't initiate or plan anything, okay, all right?
And that was the next one.
They don't argue or overreact.
Don't argue okay, okay, all right. That was the next one.
Goes along with whatever you want.
That was the last one.
Yeah, they were even giving examples like, say you are dating. Well, I'll get into the red flags in a moment, but there are some very funny red flags that I think might resonate with some women, like oh wow, yeah, I've been there, done that, that happened for you.
As a woman, dating low maintenance is not something that turns you off to somebody you're dating, not at all. Okay, don't initiate or plan anything. It's not the end of the world, you know. You tell me then, is that it's so?
Initially it doesn't sound bad because it sounds like, okay, well I can steer the ship I'm.
Okay with that doesn't overreact to things, doesn't.
Anger that's amazing.
Yeah, that's great, right, and goes along with whatever you want.
It can be annoying, but it sounds good in theory.
Yes, it looks like at least three out of the four things. And maybe even this doesn't sound like a bad.
Guy to date exactly. It actually kind of sounds perfect for especially.
Look, a lot of us women know that generally speaking, a lot of us like to be in control of our house, in control of the social calendar, kind of in control of what we do and how we do it. This is a lot of what women do. We nest, we kind of like to be the matriarchs of our family. So yes, in that sense, if you're looking for a man whose husband material, who you want to be with, this seems like it would be the perfect partner, the
perfect mate. But here is why it doesn't work. And this is when it gets really interesting, because the point being that a lot of women are allured to this type of man, to this type of relation and ship for all the obvious reasons we just stated. But here is why a lot of times and most of the time it's being argued it doesn't work because easy going actually can just be another way of saying not caring,
like completely detached. So what could look like someone who is easy going and passive actually is just detached and removed.
Oh, you're never going to get the connection you're looking for.
Oh I want to stay with that. But is it possible? How does it describe easygoing and what and not caring?
Oh?
But can easy going just be that easy going?
They say that there are examples of men who are like that, but oftentimes it's a symptom of something much deeper.
That you need to be aware of easy going and could that be nonchalance is what I kind of Yes, that's also going with the flow. All those things could be described as. But it could also be described as indifference, which is a.
Cool exactly, and so that is what women don't think about or and look, this could be men or women, but in these articles it's pretty much all directed at men. But yeah, for just not caring, for being indifferent, for being detached, and that actually can be one of the most isolating, lonely experiences in any relationship. So it seems like it's all great on its face, but you dig a little deeper, and there's a problem.
The other issue the workload.
Then, because it does become work, even if it's planning vacations or planning the next meal or planning whatever you do, suddenly completely falls on one person for booking every reservation, initiating every conversation about what we're doing, where are we going?
And so they say, you've got your partner.
He's like a plastic bag merely drifting along merrily. Sorry, not merely merrily drifting along. I started seeing a plastic bag when the wind whips up, and it's just floating and flying and just going wherever the wind takes. Yes, And they're saying the other partner is because the other person now is basically they can just sit back, relax and the other person is steering the ship and directing it and getting it through the tough waters, and they don't feel.
Like they have a partner, which is exactly what you just said. You want it right and you want to.
Control exactly Okay, But there's a difference between chill and detached, having a chill partner and a detached person a partner, having a easy going partner and a completely indifferent partner. You end up feeling more alone in these relationships oftentimes than you do as a team. And that's where people. Women miss calculate, they miss judge, And if any woman has been in a relationship like this, you will say,
oh my god. In fact, they say, give it a couple of years in your marriage and all of a sudden, this perfect person that you thought was just going to be the easiest person to hang out with and go through life with suddenly.
Is so you don't even know who they are.
And I think so when you don't stand for anything, you fall for everything. You just end up losing respect, You end up losing patience, and you end up really actually resenting this person after you.
Get the exact man you want it, who had all the characteristics you had on your list exactly, who was low mainance, didn't like to plan or ask anything, he never overreacted, and he went along with everything I wanted. That guy your guy.
Yeah, and now you're miserable and now you're unhappy. But this, I think this is so interesting to think about because I never considered this, But anyone who's out there dating, anyone who's in a relationship, you might not what seemed like a good thing, what seemed like the draw towards somebody, may end up actually being the exact reason why you shouldn't get in a relationship with someone like this.
Is I have a lot of questions. I'm not sure if this is the right time for it. But is there any suggestion that there are some women and some personalities that do match well.
With this Uh, it didn't seem to suggest suggested.
This is a cautionary tale and a trap.
Not that these men are necessarily trapping women into these relationships, but you almost you trapped because you think you want something and it turns out to get that thing you want, you actually lose so much of what you need in a relationship.
But nobody knows what they need in a relationship, right, That's why we end up with partners we end up with because we pick the thing we want, or our mom says she want it.
According to my therapist, we all are working out our childhood issues with our parents with the partners we choose, and it's all subconscious and we don't even know we're doing it. So maybe you need to go through one of these relationships to work some things out in your in your previous, in your childhood so that you can become a better human.
So what you're working out in this relationship that's from your childhood.
Oh that's a whole other episode, babe.
Is it a race thing? Okay?
Now, so how about this? I love that you have questions. Would you have another question for me?
I got tons of questions. There are all kinds of notes here. Nobody suggest you swing back the other way. Right, What if it's the guy who has a woman who is low maintenance, doesn't plan anything, doesn't overreact, and gets along with whatever you want, goes along with whatever is there any suggestion, and you're deep diving into this, that that works better in some way or because it is those traditional roles where the guy is leading everything, they
could work better. Any suggestion that a guy would be good with a plastic bag woman.
I don't know. You'd have to answer that. Does that sound good to you?
I've been looking for my whole life. I'm just obviously kidding Steel Cage. No, that's not the case. But I'm just who wants I don't know. It's why we think about there's some business sometimes and oftentimes bosses and managers they hire people to because they want them to all get along, because things seem like it's going easier. So sometimes maybe for a guy or somebody in a relationship, is it easier she just goes along with everything. This
is easier, This works, not what I need. I might get annoyed later, but I don't know to heat his in her own I was just wondering if there are plastic bag women and maybe guys might not find the same challenges.
That's funny.
This was not discussed in any of these articles about this particular theory. It was related to men, but that is an interesting thought. I don't know how many women out there are plastic bag women.
And I would imagine that.
The same thing that ends up being true for women in these types of relationships, I would think would be see the same for men, because eventually, at a certain point you start you start questioning, like, what.
Is going on in their heads?
What are they thinking about, who do they care about, what do they care about, what motivates them? You feel so detached and you don't know who they are, and so it's hard to build a relationship with someone that you would want to love and respect.
And they're even saying like.
It's better to have somebody who stands their ground, who has a different opinion than you. When you're in a relationship, and this is a lifelong relationship that you're trying to enter into, you want to be with someone who challenges you, who who opens your mind, And eventually those are the kinds of things that create a bond when you can go through and learn from one another versus just one person saying whatever.
Well, it doesn't this the plastic bag man theory here, doesn't that to some degree go better? Along with what we are seeing in a new and upcoming different generation of women, who have do have more power, who do have more say, who are encouraged to speak their mind and to be independent. It seems like partnerships there are anti partnership partnerships. People get into marriages because of what it can do for them, not because they want to enter into something and lose a part of who they are.
I'm saying, do we have a different generation of young women who oftentimes are now the theory, don't compromise at all. You don't have to compromise or change a single thing of who you are, right, That's what they're being told. So my question there, does this plastic bag man kind of work with a mindset I guess we've seen.
More of I think the answer is initially yes, Okay, they do think that might be why this is being discussed now, because what you just described is absolutely true, and women think this is what they want, they think this is what they need because now they're in complete
control and they can handle it all. But what ends up happening is, wait a couple of years, get into that relationship, and you're going to end up with a major problem, a much bigger problem than you would have had had you not had someone who is equally invested.
Because our parents to that point that, okay, you're the reason is being talked about now is because yes, a lot of women are making it our Can you imagine our parents' generation, my mom wanting a plastic bag guy.
No, no, of course, Yes, this is a new phenomenon that is being talked about now because it is something that I think a lot of women think they want and think they need. So when we come, we're going to tell you the red flags that would indicate you might be with a plastic man and what you can do about it.
All right, we continue here on this plastic man version of Amy and TJ. If y'all didn't catch that, it's not like a bunch of Ken dolls out there, it's not what we're talking about.
You're like, babe, you just said plastic man instead of plastic bag man. My apologies. Was not trying to imply that you all are Ken dolls. But actually maybe that is a little bit of what they're employed. It's a plastic bag man.
But if you say a plastic woman, you would have conjured up a different image.
Yes I won't, Yes, that's another episode, but here are the red flags that you might have a plastic bag man?
Does your guy never take initiative?
Never take initiative? Huh okay.
And I will tell you that I have said this to you plenty of times, and I think I've said this on different episodes of our podcast. Definitely talking about it with my mom last week when we saw her.
It's one of the sexiest things about you.
You are a leader, You take initiative, you do steer the ship, and strong men are out there.
I know, but.
This has been a an eye opening relationship for me with you because you are the opposite of a plastic bag man.
I will say, which would be what what's the label? What cute label does social media have for the opposite of a plastic bag man? I'm trying to fresh direct bag full of groceries man.
Yes, you're a I don't know, it's someone who what's what would I how.
Would I describe that?
No idea? A guy who's not just floating in the wind and going with it what? I don't know? The opposite of that.
You're a steel rod man, but maybe somewhere on that level where you've got a strong spine and you can handle tough situations.
The name I don't think we should go with that though, add too much in window in the title.
All Right, maybe we'll come up with it. We'll do another episode on it, because.
I think I've just now spawned off three separate episodes from this one conversation the other red flags that are out there. He subtly forces you, and it's like a passive aggressive way to carry the mental load of deciding, planning and caring about everything.
Wait a minute, he suddenly was subtly.
Subtly, he's like passively saying like and sometimes it can be as easy as as easy as agreeing, like hey, you know, would you be willing to go for a weekend?
Like can we do a weekend getaway? And you say sure?
And then you never once ask a follow up, never book anything, never say where do.
You want to go?
Just the trip never gets booked unless you the woman starts nagging about it. Hey, you said you wanted to go. But just basically it's like eh, meh about everything. So if you're realizing, wow, I am the only one who tries to get us out places or going out to meet friends or creating a vacation, or if you just realize and there is a mental load to that that starts to weigh on a person. And they're saying that easygoing can easily cross over to a voidance. Here's another
red flag. He doesn't have his own opinions. It's whatever you say he agrees with. And they were even pointing out and this one really struck a nerve with me. Imagine somebody you are dating who says, oh, I hate the city or I would never move here. Suddenly you get a job in that city and they're happy to go.
It's just like, wait, what so kind of uncompromising. It sounds flexible, it sounds wonderful, but at a certain point it starts to just get strange because that's not something that's attractive to be with someone who doesn't have their own opinions, even if they're different than yours. They're like, it's better if someone actually says no, here's why I think it's this way, and even if you disagree with them, at least you're having a healthy conversation and a healthy interaction.
Stents aren't a lot of people. Women will be relieved to not have to fight with their partner over where they should move or when they should move in big decisions. Like that being me. Doesn't that sound Some women might be listening now and say, wow, that sounds like a dream.
And that's why this whole theory is out there, because yes, it does sound great, it does seem wonderful, but in actuality, keep going on, that's not it is not. So.
Yes, they say, you want.
Someone who has thoughts of their own, like, think about that. You're not there to dat a reflection of yourself. I mean, I know some people might think that sounds great, but truly that doesn't lead to a happy relationship and it doesn't lead to a happy life.
So you want someone who has thoughts of his own.
That had to be opposites.
Yes, independent, exactly.
This is how it was, but not in an uncompromising way, but in a grounded, I have a backbone way. I wonder how many men out there are now raised around seeing these women who are powerful, strong, financially independent, and think, well, if I want to keep a woman, or I want to I want to get a woman, I want to keep a woman, I should probably just say what she says and agree with her and then it'll all be good.
I wonder if, on one hand, we're raising women like this and that's leading to men making choices to act much differently.
Perhaps in their fathers and their grandfathers.
They still tell that joke at weddings that toasts where some idiot always gets up. I'm sorry, I shouldn't say that. Somebody out there. I'd be listening actually did this just you know, some guy because of the two the most important words in your marriage. Yes, dear. If they still do that, I think so okay, so that it does get in your mind that whatever she wants goes. And then at the same time we talk about guys always being in charge of household and trad wives and all
this stuff. So I don't know which way we're going, but it seems like that has been a I don't know, we talk about marriage or something less than a partnership, and I know it's supposed to be funny and jokes were made and pop culture, but it really the difference is in all this world is just a partnership. This
is not complicated stuff. It's just a partnership and respect in a partnership that you are now a part of, which means you do have to compromise, which do mean does mean that you wanted to go for seven nights on that trip and end up being five because you had to negotiate your way. That's just it. Everybody gives a little something. We always do these things. It's this or that, it's all or nothing, and marriage and relationships are dead center between steel rod guy and paperbag boy or whatever.
It is, plastic plastic brand. Okay, see it's hard.
I actually it's funny enough. I wrote paperbag too, and I was like, wait, no, it's plastic bag. I'm so confused. But I do think you make a very good point that a lot of us, when we watch these relationship shows, people go into relationships wanting what they want to get out of it. What am I going to get out of this? How is my life going to be improved? How am I going to feel safe and happy and loved?
When in actuality, when you're entering into a marriage or relationship, it is about putting the greater good of the whole above your own individual needs.
And that is hard, that.
Is tough, that is complicated, and so if you're looking for somebody who just says yes all the time, you're going to end up most likely in a very unhappy, imbalanced relationship period. And it sounds great when you're the person who's getting everything they want, but it actually isn't great when you live in that environment because it's not a relationship.
You said, But I know every show our watch says, need to accept me for who I am. This is me I am, take it or leave it, but you don't love me enough if you don't. That's what I see on all of these shows is that someone needs to be fully accepted and does not have to compromise a single thing, a single moment, a single friendship, a single night. I don't this is me, take it or leave it. I thought that's how we were all Now.
I do think that is how a lot of folks see it. And then if you are invested in the relationship, you might start to evolve and grow.
That is the hope.
Just encourage anyone if you want to learn more about this. It's Alessandro for Sally. He's the one who kind of brought this back into the forefront end. Yeah, it's true, and his theory has taken off.
But he is a men's coach.
This is the coach men.
His mantra is.
I help men become better husbands. Yeah, he's telling them to have a backbone. He's telling them to have an opinion. He's telling them not to be a plastic bag man. That women ultimately don't want that they think they do, they say they do, but in the end, that is not who we want to be in a relationship.
So this was by a man and four men all of this. So we're getting together and manipulating how we are now going to go further tell women what to do, and we're just doing it now in a subtle way. So we're putting this thing out and letting you know the type of man you don't want, and then we're gonna flood the market with guys who now know you don't want that. This is some perfect male shit. I didn't know. I thought this was at the coach women in some way, it's not even what this is.
Ah. You know what's funny is, folks, the writers who have then taken some of this and what they've seen on social media and put it out there have all been female.
Writers hilariously talking about this.
But I do think it resonates there are enough of us women who have been in relationships like this that know it doesn't work.
Huh. It's just that's wild.
You know.
One of the funniest thing A R. Bernard over in in Brooklyn Church here we love faster Bernard. One of the funniest things I've ever heard him say. And a man said it, and I was in the room with thousands of people. He said, we know what women want. Everybody's sitting up. Men have figured out we know what women want. Everybody's own. He said, Oh, you want me to tell you? Yeah, yea, yeah, they don't know.
We know what we don't want.
That's it. And he gave a million examples. You say to your woman, Hey, you want to go to a movie tonight? Yes, what you want to see?
Ah?
Whatever's cool? All right, Hey, here's a new horror movie. I don't want to see that. That'll immediately. What do you want for dinner tonight?
Ah?
Pick anything, I'm cool. What about Mexican? Well, I don't want that. You won't say what you want, but you will clearly identify and are clear about what you don't want. And it might be paper bags floating around in the wind, as we've already determined as men in our secret tribunal that's going on with Alejandro.
His name is Anyway.
So I just This was an interesting conversation.
It is something to think about in terms of wondering not just right now what I think I need, but what do I actually need or want in a lasting relationship with a partner who I can actually have interesting communal conversations about. And most importantly, we want we do want a partner who is engaged, a partner who is invested, a partner who has some skin in the game and and isn't afraid to voice their opinion, not in a.
In an aggressive way or in.
A confrontational way, but in a way that we can say, wow, he's got a backbone.
And remember, ladies, if you aren't sure, if it's not clear, if you're still figuring out what it is you want in a man, just ask man. We will have the answer. I'm with that. Can I believe this all was because of men talking amongst the men.
And with that, everyone, thank you so much for listening to us. I made me robot alongside TJ. Holmes. We will talk to you soon.