Hey there everybody. It is Wednesday, January seventh, and families have been waiting for years for justice, for accountability after that uvolda school massacre. But on day one of testimony and the Uvaldi trial already a shocker and talk of a mistrial, and with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes. We were getting set for weeks of testimony, day one of testimony. I can't imagine what these families are going through after all this. There is
real talk of a mistrial, yes there is. It's not just speculation, this is for real.
The headlines are took an unexpected turn. And that is an understatement, because yes, testimony was underway.
It was gutting.
It was frankly shocking to rehear and to relive some of those moments, and then to have a teacher who is up on the stand say something that upset the defense so much that arguments ensued, and then they now had to remove the jury that they won't even come back into the courtroom until Thursday while the defense and the prosecution try to hammer it out with the judge.
But yes, the defense has said they may ask for a MISTRYNG.
Clear for what we're saying here, folks. On day one of testimony in the trial, Day two of testimony was canceled because there's a problem, and this is a really big problem, a Brady violation. You might have even heard of that. You hear it every now and again, even if you can't recall what it is. But it's very simple stuff. Hell, even in the movie My Cousin Vinnie,
they hit on this. The prosecution cannot withhold evidence that could possibly help the defense, and it appears at this point at least the defense is going to argue, you all just ambushed us on day one of testimony, and Rodes is hard to argue with the point they're making right now.
Yes, so this was a former third grade teacher. She was the third grade teacher at rob Elementary School on the day of the Uvaldi shooting. She testified that she saw the gunman on the same side of the building, in the exact same area where the officer who was on trial, Adrian Gonzalez, was. The defense said, that is a completely different statement than what you gave during a twenty twenty two investigation, something that she specifically said to
a Texas ranger. They say what she testified to in court is not the same and a very big difference.
And of it obviously would be to the detriment of their client. If what she's saying is true.
This is a huge no. No, this is a huge problem because the defense has been preparing for months years based on her official statements, which are official evidence in the case. They've been preparing based on that. They show up on day one of testimony in the trial and they go, oops, actually it's not that, it's something else. This is a very serious violation. The judge seemed a
little annoyed and put off by this. But folks, what we're saying is today they are dedicating the day in the court today to only trying to work this out road. The problem here, right, they get declare mistrial, Sure, judge hates to do that after all this, But Rose, what if you go through what if he gets found guilty. What's the first thing they're going to do appeal based on this Brady violation?
Potential violations?
What do you do here? Rose? Think about those famili and look, we should remind folks, full disclosure, not full disclosure. Everybody knows you were there the day after that shooting, took place. You and I were on the air together, me and New York. You there. This is something from day one. We've kept an eye on. This is something from day I can't imagine what the family are going through.
Yes, because you know it's to have been there and to have reported on it. I get emotional reading this that I am so far removed being a parent of one of these kids, and the allegations here are so serious because to think, because we learned this and I look, I don't this exact detail, but this certainly came out in the opening statement from the prosecution yesterday when testimony began, he said.
That officer Adrian Gonzalez was there on the scene before the gunman entered the building.
I don't know how you get over that one passed that one.
I have chills from head to toe as a parent.
And look, we talked about at the time, we reported when we were there on the scene that parents were begging officers, trying to get into the building themselves, wanting to run into harm's way to try and save their children when the police would not.
This is the most devastating detail I've heard in this entire story is that before he went in and killed nineteen babies. There was an officer there before he went into the buildings that you can't live with that, that's Abe.
It's it's it makes you feel gutted because when you know that something could have been prevented, and the person who was charged with that duty, who had a firearm, who was trained on what to do in these types of situations, and I understand in the moment it's very different. It's scary, But the question is the responsibility. The whole purpose of his position and his job was to protect and to serve and to run into harm's way, and when he knew there was an active gunman, the prosecution
kept saying, effectively, Adrian stayed. Adrian radioed. Adrian basically gave a blow by blow of what was happening on his radio. But he did nothing. He took zero action.
That's tough for Robes. Again, criminally, I don't know what he faces, right, I don't know if he committed a crime, what the law says about it. But Roges, that is you said, scared, you said, and you know, in all these cases, we always try to give a little grace to the person on that side. So trying to find some way to give grace to Adrian Gonzalez. And you said he was scared. Possibly, that's my job, because I'm a citizen. I can be scared and stand out there
and coward and be a coward. I can do that as a citizen. You signed up to protect these people. Signed it says to protect and serve on the side of those cars. And a part of that is, yes, possibly taking a bullet for a seven year old, that's your job. And to see some of them explain and some of the officer this is not us. These are other officers who say no. The training is to go in. You engage, even if you don't shoot and kill the shooter.
You get us a attention, get him to shoot at you instead of elementary school kids.
The very least you distract him.
Oh my god.
A Texas ranger actually, to your exact point, testified yesterday for the prosecution, and the prosecutor prosecutor asked him, are there limitations about going into a shots fired active shooter situation? Here is the exact quote from that Texas ranger. There is not a limitation. I wouldn't say so. The rule is to engage and to stop the killing.
Period.
I don't know what else to I don't know or if this is and again Adrian Gonzalez, we don't know him, not suggesting he's might be the best guy, a good guy who made a really bad call based on whatever he was going through, his emotions, his energy, his fear, whatever was happening that caused him to freeze.
I was gonna say it sounds like he was paralyzed with fear.
Fear in a moment that people called for his help. That is a devastating ropes to think it is a possibility that those nineteen didn't have to die. He beat the shooter to the school.
Yes, they described where he was.
He was actually on duty at the high school, which was nearby, and he heard over the radio a car crash, right, so a massive car crash. That's how this all began. The shooter crashed his white vehicle, and the funeral director of the funeral home, which was directly across the street from the rob Elementary School, immediately starts calling nine one one, begging, begging, please I can hear the shots. The officer arrived. They actually have the time stance, I stamps. I believe the
crash happened around eleven thirty in the morning. Officer Gonzalez was there by eleven forty, so he was there within like minutes and before the shooter even had the.
Opportunity to go into the school itself.
And a teacher, well, the prosecutor testified that there was a teacher who got up right up close to Officer Gonzalez's face and said, basically, please, he's over there, Please go get him, and was pointing Officer Gonzalez into the direction because she had just faced the shooter and knew what he was doing and said, please go get him. And Adrian Gonzalez, according to the prosecutor, prosecutor did nothing and it wasn't just a split second decision to do
nothing seven seven minutes. Imagine that an hour and seven minutes of terror of shots being fired, and no one goes inside, no one does anything.
And Gonzalez is we should mention he's the first of two. The other is the former school police chief. Actually that's going to be facing trial as well. These details that have been coming out of this case now we're going to get more, but there is a real possibility people that this trial won't continue this week. What is the judge going. He doesn't want to declare mistrial robes, but I don't know. Maybe they were. There's some deal they can work out, but they are going to have to
discuss it. And what was the case is what the judge is allowing the defense to interview the prosecutors about.
What they did, ye what they knew and when they knew it in this testimony or this very important piece of evidence and from the testimony of this teacher, when did it change? When did they know about what she was going to testify to? And we should point out on Monday, when they were seating a jury, they actually had to dismiss more than one hundred jurors who admitted and said I cannot be impartial.
Yea.
They said they had already formed opinions. Some of them were teachers, some of them were husbands of teachers, people who said, I already know that if my wife or my child were in that building, I would blame the officers for not going in period.
End of story.
I'd admit I was surprised I got twelve.
So they actually even said it was pretty remarkable they were able to see twelve jurors and four alternates.
Quickly within one day.
But to have all those folks just walk out and say, nope, I can't be impartial.
I don't know that I've ever seen that before.
Well, we had so many yes, the jury the way deer right, this whole process that they go through, but robes every once in a while, don't you Usually hear jurors trying to make sure they I don't want to say fool, but you want to sound like you're important, like I can be impartial here and whatnot? They just raising their hands. Nope, he's good. I know what I would do, So you want me here. This is what's going to happen.
Yeah, I'm going to tell say that he's guilty.
I don't really I appreciate that.
I do too.
I'm sure the defense actually appreciated it as well, because you don't want somebody. And then you think about if all those people walked out, the people who did, because I think they.
Had about four hundred plus jurors to go through.
But if a quarter of them immediately just raise their hand and say I'm not going to be impartial.
It's just easy to eliminate folks.
Yes, imagine the people who might say, cool, I'm not going to say it out loud, but I know exactly what I'm going to do.
You may that's probably some of that on the oh Man, you don't want to say that about the jurors, but you guess to think that's true. This is happening in Corpus Christie, it's happening down there in Texas. It's happening in an area where that how the whole country is familiar with this story, but ropes, How can anybody there not be impacted? Maybe not know somebody who knows, somebody whose kids play on a team with somebody, that kind of a thing. It's impossible.
And even for someone like us, who are far removed.
We covered it, but I don't know anyone personally who was involved. And yet I feel very impassioned by it, as do I would argue most human beings, especially those who have children. It's just an impossible thing to ignore that feeling of why wouldn't you do your job? And if you had done your job, lives would have been saved, period, Maybe not all of them, but at least some of them.
That's got to be an argument. So it's hard to go back in the ifs and what I just can't imagine a scenario where all of these kids would have died if he would have acted. I just can't imagine a scenario with fire shots in the air, do something to yell and screen there's an officer here, just get is I just I don't know the training roles, but it's hard to imagine that the outcome would have been the same had he acted.
I know, you remember the interview I did with that teacher who described how long it took the shooting. He would just pick people off. It wasn't like just a big mass shooting.
Yet he ran out.
This went on and on and on. So by the inaction of.
Those police officers allowed him to continue to kill people. And this poor teacher actually was hiding and watched almost his entire class get shot and killed, and there was nothing he could do about it. He had no weapon, he had no way to protect those children.
And it's just a horrific scene.
And by the way, Adrian Gonzales is facing the potential of life in prison twenty nine counts of child abandonment or endangerment. He is facing two years per count, so that would amount to what sixty years or so, and at his age, that would be basically a life sentence, but the judge does have a lot of discretion in terms of how much he wants to sentence this officer too. But this is a tough case to overcome for the defense. When you look at the facts.
You look at the facts. But folks, would you believe there is precedent for a case like this? And would you believe the precedent in that case might be one that's in favor of Adrian Gonzalez. We'll explain it. Stay here.
We continue here on Amy and TJ. After a dramatic first day of testimony in the Uvalde trial, a dramatic first day that ends up getting us to this point, which was supposed to be the second day of testimony, but it has been suspended because of an issue that's come up that the defense has accused the prosecution of withholding some information that could be material to this case. So today robes are going to spend the day no jury.
They get first day on the job, they get in the day off the second day essentially, so the prosecution, the defense, and the judge can try to hammer this out, but a mistrial.
Is on the table, and that is certainly concerning. We already heard from one of the family members of one of the slain children, and they were very upset about the potential of a mistrial, as you might imagine, and they spoke to several reporters outside of the courthouse when it was adjourned yesterday late yesterday evening, and here was their quote. We are already anxious and now we're upset.
All we want is justice for Jackie. It's been three and a half years and here we are, and it has been well documented over these past several years, how upset. Understandably so, these parents are at the police's in action. They have been vocal about it, and many of them are in that courtroom and they want justice for their children.
You remember, I know you tube, but yeah, we were trying to piece this together and we heard how many kids were killed. And I remember a press conference that the might have been the first, but it was an early one when they declared what the police action was. And then they came back and there was another press conference and that's when they were reveal that seventy seven that that gap and the whole country collectively were just astonished.
And then they tried to explain their behavior, tried to explain why this was okay, why this had to be done. It was a shit show, to be quite honest, absolutely about it, because nobody can comprehend. But Robes, here we are three years later. I cannot believe that I continue to be surprised and shocked by information that comes out about that day that makes it worse. It makes it worse. Every new detail makes it worse. Oh, it was even
worse than we thought. There is So I try. I try to give this guy some kind of grace.
Robes, I hear you, and the jury is hearing the nine to one one calls that were happening as Adrian Gonzalez was on the scene. Oh Jesus, please protect those children. Hurry, begging officers to arrive, hurry please. Oh my god, he's jumping into the school yard. He's just jumped over the fence. These are the nine to one to one calls that the jury is hearing, and knowing when they see the timestamp that officer Gonzales was there, that is hard to overcome.
The defense can say that he's not responsible.
They said there's an animal involved in the situation, a monster, and he's no longer here. And because that monster can't sit in the chair. My client's sitting in the chair. But I don't think that is going to That didn't That doesn't move me.
Hey, how about that question if the shooter had lived, If the shooter had lived and they were able to bring him to trial, would they have taken the time to bring these officers to trial.
I think so because it's so egregious, It was so much a part of the story, how egregiously terrific the inaction of these police officers were. It wasn't just that they were cowards. And look, that is a question. Is being a coward a crime? Okay, that's a fair question
to ask. But when your cowardice behavior leads directly to massacre, a massacre that you could have presented prevented if you hadn't been a coward, And if your job is to not be a coward, if your job is to be brave, I think that it is fair to say that being a coward in certain positions is potentially criminal.
It sounds like a strong and such an offensive word, coward. I don't I don't know what else to say. Because I'm only listening to the law enforcement community. I haven't gone through police training. I haven't gone through active shooter training, but I am pretty sure every officer in this country pretty much has.
Yes.
Oh, and they do them regularly, right, They do refresher courses on this stuff. They focused on this. We haven't focused on it since ninety nine and Columbine. So if you're telling me that his action that day is in line with training, then all training in this country needs
to change. If you're telling me, if you're going to make some argument that he was justified in his behavior because of fear or he did and he didn't have a responsibility to put his life on the line, then we have to change standards for police officers.
The defense is saying that he didn't have all the information he needed to proceed, and that is such a tough argument for anyone to get their heads around.
When he was there and saw it and hurt it.
Any officer in the country, I will ask this country this question too. If you show up to a school where you're told there's a shooter inside, you hear gunfire, you're on the scene, what do you do? And if you're telling me your correct response is to stand outside, stay on the radio.
And wait for seventy seven minutes and again other officers.
I'm not sure when the other officers arrive, but there were plenty on the scenes. But I'm saying, first officer, what is his I would love to and I will we know officers. I will ask a bunch of them, what is it? What would you do? What are you supposed to do? I don't know what training is somebody in their shooting kids.
They're testifying and they will continue to, I'm sure, bring up to your point exactly that exact question. And so far those who have answered have all said, your job is to go in. Your job is to stop to shoot.
Do you remember what did they have to physically keep parents from going? Yes, Okay, here's the thing. This is text.
They were tackling parents who were trying to get past the police to get to their kids.
This is the thing. This is Texas. And if a Texas parent who is armed had made it to that school before Gonzales, I bet the outcome would be different.
I agree. I just got chills thinking about it.
I walked in that school. You would have walked in that school, oh, like like.
You would have to tackle me, you would have to restrain me. And that did happen. That did happen. They were restraining parents, Babe. That is what is so disgusting.
We're not gonna save your kid, but you can't go save your kid.
You gotta be fucking no way. So we mentioned that there is precedence. This is the second time in US history that prosecutors have tried to hold a member of law enforcement accountable for their inaction to a mass shooting. This was just in twenty twenty three, so just two years ago. But a Florida jury acquitted the officer. It was a Broward County Sheriff's deputy. He was charged with similar charges because of his inaction during the Parkland shootings, and he was acquitted.
See I'm sorry I didn't look into it enough. But what was the argument? Like was the defense arguing there? Yep.
His lawyers argued that his role as an armed school resource officer did not amount to a caregiving post and that the response to.
The shooting was muddled by poor communication.
So it seems as though they're doing or using this defense is already kind of taking on that similar defense. It was confusing, he didn't have all the information he needed. There was confusing communication. Do you the guy break yes, exactly. So it worked in Parkland and I think they're hoping that it will work in Uvaldi. But they are very different scenarios. And that's seventy seven minutes those nine one
one calls. You're gonna have parents going up there talking about what they saw, what they tried to do to get in to save their children. It seems like it is going to be a very tall order for them to convince a jury.
Otherwise.
We are going to keep an eye on this one. We will certainly hop back on what time is their starting today in court?
One pm local time, So have a little bit of a later start today to hear these arguments.
All right, We'll keep an eye on this one, folks. As always, top right corner of your Apple podcast app on our show page as a little button that says follow Click that and you can get our updates. Don't have to go looking for them. There will be some updates today our morning run. It's coming here in a couple hours as always, but a busy, busy start to twenty twenty six. We always appreciate you spend some time here with us on TJ. Holmes on behalf of my dear amy blobosis and talk to it. Put in T T