Hey, folks, He's won three Super Bowls and you probably didn't know his name. He gave one commencement speech at a tiny college in Kansas, and now everybody is talking about him. Welcome, folks to this episode of Amy and TJ, a special episode that we didn't plan on doing, but robes a lot of conversation privately here was prompted by what we're now seeing, as I guess you could call it backlash for the speech that Harrison Butker of the Kansas City Chiefs gave at a college in Kansas.
That's right. I first saw some of the noise the reaction to his speech yesterday and went on to actually read the transcript under you actually watched the speech. I watched some of it to see what all of the fuss was about. But I came to you and my jaw dropped. I was and initially felt much of what I'm seeing A lot of women felt when they heard or read what he said. To sum it up, he said a lot in his speech to the graduating class giving the commencement speech there over the weekend.
And context though who he was giving this.
He was giving the speech to the graduating class of Benedictine College. It is a conservative Catholic college in the Midwest, very close to where I spent my formative years in Missouri, going and attending Catholic schools. I want to at least put this out there. I am no longer a practicing Catholic, but I was raised in the Catholic faith in the Midwest. My parents are still devout Catholics, as is much of my family. So this was all a very interesting speech
that I did take offense to. Interestingly, TJ, you had a little bit of a different reaction initially before you kind of got into the details of the story.
Well, I saw someone's reaction to what we often do, right with social media and things that can become hot button issues and clickable, I suppose. So I saw a lot of the reaction I was reading about his speech before I actually saw the speech, and once I saw the speech and got a little more context, not in some agreement one way or another with anything he said, but rather where he was coming from, what he was saying, why he was saying, and how personally it was to
him and the audience he was talking to. It changed a little. It didn't change what he said, but it changed some of the I guess some of the things I read, I believe were meant to be a little more clickable if you will. And this, you know, it always drives me crazy. And things like this happened. Everybody just here, we go, go to our respective corners, let's come out, let's fight, and then let's go back to our corners. And nobody learned anything, and nobody got anywhere.
And this is just another opportunity I thought, to have a better and a broader conversation and more understanding about what exactly he said, but also about the church and how many other people might feel the way he does.
Yeah, and there were a couple of groups who were offended by what he said, a lot of especially working women, I would say, and members of the LGBTQ community as well. So there were there were two things to address. But I'll start with the women just because, as again, I was raised in the Catholic faith and am a working woman. So it's an interesting position to be in.
And it's fair to say, right, there was a lot in there. I mean, he went after President Biden on abortions. He threw in diversity, equity and inclusion, a lot of stuff was in there, But is it fair to say I think I felt that way that the thing that most people were worked up about or writing about had to do with his comments about women and being a homemaker. Is the word he Yes, would you say that's the thing that got most correct?
Yes? And then and then I actually went into a deep dive as you did as well this morning, because even though I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school in the Midwest, I still was a little bit unclear about where the Catholic Church officially stands on women working outside of the home. And I feel like I got some clarity. Although there's always you can read anything anyway
that you'd like. People take the Bible and things that Pope say, you know, literally, and sometimes people take it to fit the context they want it to, so it's
always up for interpretation. I'll put that out there. But the biggest thing that I took offense to look, he's talking to a bunch of men and women who have just spent four years at university and are graduating, And I mean I encourage everyone to go and listen to the speech or at least read the transcript of the speech as well, because this is just a summation of
a few parts. But he he spoke to the women in the in the room specifically saying I want to speak to you directly, he says, and I'm gonna quote him here because I think it is you, the women who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross the stage and are thinking about all of the promotions and titles you're going to get in your career.
He goes on to say, some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.
He goes going to stop, Yes, go ahead, and now, so right there, where does what in that I don't want to completely break down word for word here too much, but in what he's saying there, you're you said you're offended. So the offense in that I'm aware for you.
So yes, I understand the audience. And by the way, he received a standing ovation at the end of this speech, we should point that out. You could say he knew his audience. This was a conservative Catholic university. But I guess I also just have initially an issue with a man telling women saying I would venture to guess that
the majority of you. I feel like that's a very presumptive way to start any sentence, and then to go on to say something about, even though you just spent four years educating yourself and getting your career, you're more excited about being a wife and a mother. I think that's incredibly presumptive, and that therein lies some of the offense.
Now if I'm not the weeds, but not even semantics, but words matter. But I'm looking at this, the quote you just read to everybody. If he would have changed that language that said, I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you'll bring into the world. If he would have said, but I bet some of you are
most excited, I would guess a few of you. If he would have changed that to not a presumption that I know what most women in this room are thinking. Would that have made a difference, It.
Would have softened it. But I think you are stepping into dangerous territory when you are presuming, especially that the majority of a sex you don't know anything about truly to be and what it is to be a woman. I think that immediately raises eyebrows and makes people feel like, wait, who are you to speak for us?
That is, and I'll go back on a lot of emphasis is put on him, an attention on him, but he's speaking to an audience like you said. That gave him a standing ovation at the end, and he was not booed, nobody walked out. There was no protest when he said this. Can we venture to say that this idea, that line, that sentence is something that a lot of people in that room, and maybe a lot of people outside of that room in the Catholic faith would completely agree with.
There are people inside and outside of the Catholic faith who would agree with that. I'm sure, and I'm not here to say that it's wrong to be excited about those things or for that to be the thing you want to do after getting a college education or foregoing an education, becoming a wife and a mother. I have no issue with that at all. I mean, my mother herself was a wife and a mother before getting educated.
Waited until we went back to school to get educated, and waited until we were well on our way before she became a teacher. So you know, I applaud all the women out there who are able to be able to make that decision. And that's a clear distinction, because so many women don't have the choice to be homemakers or to not enter the workforce for financial reasons. So you know, there's a whole group of women who I'm sure feel very upset about the fact that somehow it's
a choice. It's not always a choice. I think that's a very clear distinction to make. But also I just want to say, being raised in the Catholic Church, in a very conservative Catholic school in the Midwest, I never once ever felt or heard anyone, no priest, no, certainly not my parents, suggest that at my main vocation in life, my main purpose in life was to become a wife and a mother and that would be me serving the church. I never ever heard that. Now, I will also just
say this because I want to be fully transparent. One of the reasons, and I would say the main reason that I felt I just didn't feel comfortable in the Catholic Church and I ultimately left the Catholic Church was because of many of their stances on women's reproductive rights.
So I don't agree with the Church's stance on much to do with women, but I will firmly say that I never felt like there was not just a push for me to not work, but even you know, a duty of me not to work outside of the home.
But can that also be not women aren't allowed to be priests? This idea here of the vocation there is a sacrament right as a vocation is called. It's a vocation of marriage in the Catholic Church, is it not? Yes?
No, And I have I have completed all the sacraments through marriage. And both of my daughters, by the way, have gone through Catholic school, Catholic upbringing, and have completed all of their sacraments through confirmation.
So I'm getting in what I'm sticking with this this quote here, the idea that someone in the Catholic Church who is making a a devout Catholic who is making a speech to a conservative Catholic school saying something like this isn't far fetched? Is it? For me? It was to that that guy at that school making that speech is not far fetched for us on the outside potentially, but for his audience, and they invited him in this. This didn't come out of left field, is what I'm saying to this audience.
Yep, No, I hear you and I and to your point, yes, I don't know that school intimately, obviously, I just know that I have had the experience of being in a conservative Catholic educational system and those points were never made. No one ever said anything like that. So this is the first time I've ever heard that. I'm not saying that this isn't in line with what this school teaches, but I have I personally and I've had the experience
of being in a conservative Catholic educational system. I have never heard anyone say anything like that.
About the idea of being excited about being married and having children. Because I'm just looking at his wowing.
A career and being more excited about that.
I don't want to put words in his mouth. Where did you see him say for tell them to forego a career. This is one of the things I always get. Do you know this, because we dealt with a lot of people.
May not have directly said it, TJ, but he certainly indirectly said it because he then talked about his wife giving up her career to be a wife and a mother and to support him so to be his wife, to be their children's mother. And he then went on to say, if she has any regrets on her decision, if you're asking that, she would laugh out loud without hesitation and say heck no. So he was certainly applying,
and I will say this. He also said that women and he was saying that could be much happier doing this than being in the workplace. I'm just saying again, he is taking something that he has experienced that a
lot of people have experienced. And I'm not saying that that isn't true, but to be saying this to a group of women who have just spent four years preparing to be in the workforce potentially or at least to be educated, to have the opportunity to to say, you could be so much happier if you disregard the outside noise.
And I'm assuming he's referring to the media and to liberals in the world, because he does reference them throughout this speech to move closer to God's will, implying that God's will is for women to be wives and mothers, and so that is where the offense or that's where the rub lies. Therein lies the roub. I guess the phrase, but that is where I think a lot of women it took issue.
Well. I would encourage everybody to not even just read it, if you greet it, if you get a chance, but I encourage you to actually listen to it. And again there's there's everybody can disagree about the position of or anybody who takes a position that women should be in the home. That's silly, that's outdated, that's not even in existence necessarily, or shouldn't be something we should talk about
in a serious manner. Quite frankly, I just in this conversation where it gets it looks like everybody's dumping on this guy. And I was trying to understand as a whole the stance of the people in that room, of Catholics, of Catholicism, of the religion, and what it actually says. And in listening to him, you can infer or jump to a conclusion. But I in him talking about his experience gives an impression and why isn't that okay right
if his experience was as such? And the rest I don't know if you have there as a part of the quote you gave about marriage and children you bring into this world. Quote he says, I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother. I'm on stage today enable to be the man I am because I have a wife who leans into her vocation. I'm beyond blessed with the many talents God has given me.
But I cannot it cannot be overstated that all of my success is made possible because of a girl I met in band class back in middle school and would convert to the faith, become my wife, and embrace one of the most important titles of all homemaker. Now getting through that quote, he was tearing up and got emotional. After he made that quote, he got what I believe was the only mid speech applause, and it went on for or ten fifteen twenty seconds on that line in
that audience. Now that quote, do you also take issue with him? He's explaining his situation, what his experience has been in the vocation of marriage.
So I would say this, first of all, he has every right to say what he feels, and there are certainly plenty of people who want to go back to that way of life. That and the reason why the.
Minority aren't they those people? We have to say that I.
Think so, I believe so I wouldn't. I wouldn't want to speak to just how many people feel that way. But I can tell you how I feel. Women have spent the last century fighting for rights not to have a choice. We've spent, you know, since the beginning of history our lives as women on this planet in subservance to men. We didn't have any rights. We couldn't own property, we couldn't get educated, we had no opportunity beyond being
a mother and a wife. And so all of the women who have fought for women's rights, from education to opportunity to equal pay, all of that to hear a man say that he gets to be the man he wants to be because the woman is sacrificing, because the woman is subservient, because the woman is foregoing any professional career or aspiration she may have to serve him so that he can be the man he needs to be.
He also invited men to lean into their masculinity. So I just think that's why you know, you've spent all this time trying to have But that's what it invokes. It invokes that feeling, and that's why there's a motion attached to it.
That's why I say that it invokes a feeling. But I think, and I didn't want to do this here, but there's so much context, And I say context, we're paraphrasing some of the direct things he said and jump to conclusions about what he said. I don't want to do that. You can have an opinion about what he said, but to us to assign how he feels and what he's telling everybody else based on his experience, I think, I just I want to be careful about going too
far there. Yes he said it, but some of the idea that he is saying you need to be subservient, you can't. He's talking to a graduating educated people who, like you said, Now, the women in that audience do have a choice. They have a choice about the vocation of marriage, and they have a choice in education and what they want to do because they just got it.
So I.
Want and I'm curious about a wider view that Catholics have about this this idea and again, it's a vocation of marriage, it actually is a thing that's assigned in the Catholic Church. That's it is your role, your job, your duty, both though, But I just I just want to hesitate to jump to a conclusion about what I think is in his heart versus what he said.
Oh, and I think he was extremely genuine and I think what he is saying works for him and his wife and his family in a beautiful way. And I don't fault them for that. I think that's incredible. I think to each his own in terms of what is good for you and your family and how you view your faith.
But I'm just not full stop right now because.
He's encouraging other women, and I just feel like he was absolutely encouraging other women and implying that they would be happier if they leaned in on that vocation rather than pursue a career outside that.
I just didn't see him say that anywhere. I felt that, and nowhere did I see him make that statement that you need to do this, do not go to work.
He didn't say that, but he was encouraging.
Okay, I'm sorry, you just said it, so I just want to make sure we're clear on that. You said. He's encouraging them not to work and to actually just go be homemakers.
He was encouraging them to do that by saying they would be happier if they did that.
Again, we need to go through and find the direct quote. I just I don't want to assign that to him, and now here in this space give people an impression. So I keep saying, go listen to it for yourselves, or go read it for yourself.
If not that, then TJ, what would you believe his intent was?
He knew his audience, and I do think he was speaking from the heart, but also his intent if we go to that being the intent is he speaking to an audience that is welcoming that message. Meaning We've been in Catholic school here for the past four years, a conservative Catholic school. We've heard a lot of teachings about the vocation of marriage and Saint Peter's saying that women are the weaker vessel, right, So that might be in their minds. They might be struggling with that idea. What
do I do. I want to be a good Catholic, I want to be a successful so I don't know that part and how welcoming it is for that audience to hear. Ah it worked for him. Ah, it worked for them. Oh it's okay for me to be this way. Oh it's okay for me to express myself. Because he's doing so, he's expressing something you could absolutely have issue with, right. I am just trying to get more of an understanding of his relationship to the people in that room.
Yeah. No, And to this, I will say this, and I think this is true for any institution, especially a religious institution. There are factions within churches. So the Catholic Church is not just one unified church, even though I know we're all under the Pope's umbrella, but you've got the conservative faction. And then he even points out, as you mentioned Joe Biden being a Catholic and yet supporting
abortion rights. He thought that was ludicrous. And you know, I will argue that, you know, there are a lot of phrases for Catholics, cafeteria Catholics, where you pick what you like. But the point being is if you're all unified, you know, to try and be better people. I just I am I struggle with and I think probably a lot of and I want to say a former Catholic, so I don't want to put myself in that pool.
But a lot of Catholics get frustrated. They want there to be more of a unified vision, and I think it is confusing and different popes have different ways of
looking at it. I actually looked up some of what religious Catholic leaders have said about women working outside of the church, and I actually I loved reading a little bit of what Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger spoke about because he said, I'm going to quote him here, women who freely desire will be able to devote the totality of their time to the work of the household without being stigmatized by society or penalized financially of aka the homemaker, while those
who wish also to engage in other work may be able to do so with an appropriate work schedule and not have to choose between relinquishing their family life or enduring continual stress with negative consequences for one's own equilibrium
and the harmony of the family. And I also like he went on to say talking about the genius of women, and he said that women should be present in the world of work and in the organization of society, and that women should have access to positions of responsibility which allow them to inspire the policies of nations and to promote innovative solutions to economic and social problems. But they all make the caveat that it somehow, any of that work is in the detriment or somehow you know, is
a negative to the family life. Then the woman needs to choose her family over work. And so that has been an absolute current, like a consensus that women can work unless it affects the family.
Well, I suppose any woman who makes that choice for herself no one should take issue with. But if anyone, any religious leader, is encouraging her to do so, there in lies the problem.
Yes, true, yeah, yes, I mean well, yeah, the.
Choice itself is not is just the woman makes the choice.
That's correct. But and I do think there is an emphasis though that it is a woman's responsibility to make sure her children and her family are good, basically in addition to working outside of the home. But I also love something else that the Catholic I want to try to read something. It was something really cool about the
reference in the in the Bible to me. Sorry, I had something I wanted to bring it up, and maybe I thought it was it was basically not referencing that it was a woman's responsibility or a mother's responsibility, but it was a parent's parents responsibility. So there was no distinguishing between women and men. That it was this was in the this was in the Catholic doctrine, that it
wasn't specifically women, that it was parents. And I mean, I think that's what I would argue most women, and I think a lot of men, most men believe as well that this is a shared responsibility, isn't solely based on the shoulder of women.
Yeah, but that same Bible we speak of says that husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as airs with you of the gracious gift of life. That's Saint Peter, right, So you can there's all kinds of stuff later throughout there, but all this stuff was written at different times. We all know there
is and should be equality these days. If you choose to be only a working woman, or we want to be a working mom, you can just be a mom. Everybody can make that call. But if that line the first quote you gave had been delivered to that audience by a woman. Would you feel differently about this? Would anybody be talking about.
Oh, it would be a little different, but I think people would still be talking about it.
This would make the same headlines, He would get the same back.
It would not make the same headline if.
A woman got up then said, I would venture to guess the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.
Yeah, I don't think it would not have the same fever pitch for sure. And didn't you say, by the way, this is interesting and speaking to a point you made when we were talking about this before the podcast, about the role of Benedictine College and what they knew was going to be said and what they probably knew what they were getting when they asked him to speak. He gave a similar commencement address at Georgia Tech, his alma mater, correct, and no one picked up on it.
It wasn't as long and he didn't go as hard, but he made some of the same some of the same claims. I think he even stopped or paused in that one kind of tongue and she kind of smiled a little bit where he said I'm going to say something here about your future or something you need to do to be successful. He said, get married, had a family. He said this to the graduating class of Georgia Tech, so it's not it was a shorter speech and didn't
get much attention. But yeah, this is something he has been talking about for a while.
And it's also interesting. I just want to point out his mother, his own mom has worked outside of the workplace in a very distinguished way. In fact, his mom Elizabeth, but she's a medical physicist in the Department of Radiation Oncology at the Emory University School of Medicine in Atlanta. They're in Georgia, so she is and was a working mom. So it's an interesting I would be really curious to
see what she has to say. And she may be in full support of her son and agree with everything he said, but it is an interesting position to find that she not only worked outside of the home, but you know, in a very very elevated, dedicated way.
Well, we don't want to go as far as we're not. Don't suggesting he's anti women working.
I don't know what he is. I mean, it just
it felt. Look, here's the deal. I will say this, I think women who choose, And by the way, when I say choose, not everybody has a choice, but the women who have the incredible ability to choose not to work for whatever reason, they're financially secure, because of their husbands, or for whatever reason, they don't have to work outside of the home, which is a very important caveat because that and I know everyone says this and it sounds even cliche, but my god, working at home as a
mother and a wife is absolutely the hardest job any woman could undertake. It is thankless, it is selfless, it is it never stops. You're on call twenty four to seven. And my hat go. My hat's off to any woman who chooses that, because to me, that is incredibly difficult and incredibly beautiful and something to be proud of. So love, I would have loved the idea, if you know, I'm all about those women need more support. Those women need to feel the love and the support from not only
their families, their husbands, but their communities and this world. Frankly, that their jobs are important, probably the most important there is to have. So I want to make that very clear that I feel that way, and I think those women need to have more support. So if he could have freezed it in a way where it just felt more supportive, unless you'll be happier if dot dot dot at a commencement address.
Isn't that But if he made the commencement address at the University of Arkansas, it would have been received differently.
It would have.
But he's making it to a place that he knows is and maybe that's why he didn't go as hard at Georgia Tech because it's.
I'm pretty sure why.
But the more connected people are to one another, the more they feel alone. He said. I'm not sure the root of this, but at least I can offer one controversial antidote that I think though that I believe will have a lasting impact on generations to come get married and start a family. That's his quote from the Georgia Tech speech. Wow, right, the techn engineer sitting out there and he's encouraging them to do so. That tells you he really sees in his life the importance of family
and marriage. He didn't go as far as with really in that speech, but he was waiting on a conservative Christian college to call, and he led loose on this one a little bit. But at the same time, but that idea is not crazy, It's not far fetched. Like you said, you just had issue with.
His tone, his tone, his message. And you know, he does not speak for all Catholics. I know that for sure, and he certainly doesn't speak for women, and I think that was a big part of the problem. But I did appreciate you know, it's funny I brought this to you. I had a very emotional reaction. Initially, I was outraged. I actually felt it like in my chest it tightened. I actually felt like emotional, like I felt like I
wanted to cry when I read what he said. And then you're very measured and said, why is everybody jumping on this guy? You know? And so it was cool to hear your take on it from the perspective of everyone just wants to jump on the messenger, make them into villains, make them into bad guys, ask for an apology, ask for I know. The NFL did respond, yeah.
Just that they don't agree that his views aren't in line with the nfls.
And speaking to that, I think a lot of that was in reaction to what he said about Pride month. You have the quote right, because you know he wasn't just women. That was probably the biggest headline, but he also made It was a very quick one line, but it certainly packed a punch.
And it seemed done necessary. It was the one part of the that seemed a little mean, seemed a little unnecessary. Again, sorry to assign mean to it, but that was the one thing I mean made like you said you talked about He talked about Biden and some political.
Stocks, abortion, IVF sarrogacy.
Yeah, but this line, he said, I'm saying all this here. He was hoping what he said wouldn't be met with anger, but instead met with excitement and pride. Not the deadly sin sort of pride that has an entire month dedicated to it, but the true God centered pride that is cooperating with that d D DA DA. So it was almost a line that wasn't necessary. He just used the word pride and took an opportunity to take a shot at
the LGBTQ plus community in Pride Month. I thought that was a little that was a little harsh.
Here's my big issue. Look, there are a lot of amazing Christians and Catholics out there. I would say most of them are, but The problem is when you take religion and then you're divisive with it. I have an issue with that. I mean, I just the whole What would Jesus do? What would Jesus say? I do not believe Jesus would have said any of those things. And I think that is the frustrating thing for me to
see someone. And he has absolutely entitled to his opinion, but I just don't think that's in this spirit of Christianity. That's my personal belief and judgment. There's no place for that in a commencement address. And that's absolutely what he did. And he chose those words. You can tell he is an incredibly intelligent human being, the words he chose, how he spoke. He is a thoughtful, introspective, intelligent person. So he chose those words carefully and he chose to say them.
And so yes, people get to react based on that. This wasn't something that he said offhanded, a quick remark and ad lib something he didn't think through or out. He wrote this down and he said it deliberately with a lot of intention.
And my issue again, I was re You told me about it, and you were fired up about it last night, and I just wanted to I had no reaction because based on what you were telling me and based on headlines, I just didn't have a reaction to it. See why people reacted, But so much of what I saw didn't involve thought. It didn't involve a conversation, It didn't involve any type of grace or an attempt to understand. It was the same old stuff we do in this country
when things like this come up. This is an opportunity for me. I learned a lot about Catholicism today because of this guy, by looking it up and reading and researching. But my issue was that why are we Why are we not having a larger conversation or trying to get some kind of an understanding to why a guy that everybody is trying to cancel on social media, people even calling for him to be let go by the Kansas
City chiefs. That where we're attacking this guy, then why is there not some thought or criticism or conversation to the college, to Catholicism, to the folks who invited him, to the folks who I don't remember seeing a single person sitting down at the end, and he got that ovation. So something's going on. I'm trying to understand that better. I understand, and it's unfortunate what happens on social media that I get because we've been through it, and it's hate, hate,
hate that. So we might be missing an opportunity to actually have a learn a little something about each other, for men and women to have a better conversation, for religious folks to have a better conversation.
Uh.
And it just sucked that was getting a.
Little lost well, you know, and I appreciate that measured response, and thatiate Your immediate response was to learn more. Your immediate response was to first of all, watch and read it all, but then to actually dig in and figure out where he was coming from. And I think that
is something that the majority people do not do. And I will admit initially, I mean, I do have the background of I don't believe me, I don't know everything far from it where it comes to the Catholic Church, but I did have, you know, a fairly intimate understanding
of my experience in the Catholic Church. So it was just I had a very visceral emotional reaction as a former Catholic and a woman, But it was I actually appreciate your response because it wasn't what I thought you would respond with, and I respect it because I feel like if more of us can react with an open mind and a willingness to dig in a little bit deeper and to take the emotional part of it and
just put it aside for a little bit. I mean, I say that as somebody who reacted emotionally when I first saw it, and I still feel emotional about it, and I still feel pretty strongly about it. But if we can all have conversations about it, we can get a little bit closer to just understanding one another. We don't have to agree with each other, and I don't think we ever will, but if we can just understand each other and show a little respect, you know, that
would go a long way in the conversation. And it's been an interesting reaction between you and me about what we both read and saw.
And the completely miss this one. I didn't miss, but we even forgot this one because there was so much stuff in there the world around us says we should keep our beliefs to ourselves whenever they go against the tyranny diversity, equity, and inclusion. That was his other line.
It bothered me a lot.
They go against the tyranny of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Now that's other levels. He threw it in there. Now that one seems he didn't give any he didn't allow for any more conversation. He made a statement there and left it for our interpretation. But to call it the tyranny of diversity, equity, inclusion. I know there's a movement in this country to get rid of those offices and whatnot in companies and schools and states around the country. I get that, But they call it the tyranny.
Well, easy to say for a white man, I just I'm sorry, but I think that is part of the offense, that his experience is so singular, and most anyone who isn't a white male, I would never say, I know
what it's like to be him. But to then say for inclusionists and diversity and all those things to somehow be something negative, that's also I have a I take a huge issue with that, and again I think just goes against the teachings of Fellowship and Christianity at its base, at its root, we should be inclusive, we should be diverse, we should be accepting, and certain parts of this world, in this society do need extra support based on history and current status. That's just the truth.
And yeah, I'm bumpstill looking at his tyranny line. It was just it's hard to put it in full context of what he was trying to say and why he said it. He would have to explain I would lead to hear what he's talking about here. But just on its face, you you jump to a conclusion that he is, you would the tyranny of diversity, equity and inclusion. That's just that's just one to defend. But it just there's
no fuller context in the paragraphs. So I don't know exactly what he was trying to say, but that that don't look good. But yeah, it's it's we'll see what happens that I don't I don't think as of this recording, the Kansas City Chiefs have made a statement about it. Then they might not. Look there's a lot of stuff going on in the league that well, sometimes guys do a lot worse than say some words that offend people. Yep. So don't know if anything will come of it in
the NFL, but this was no. I appreciate it. I didn't even want to do this episode, yes, because I said whatever I upset about. I just don't want to pile on or throw in some oounts. All right, Finn, some outrage here, but I don't actually have it. And I just saw it as a great opportunity to have a conversation and to slow down a little bit. And we do encourage everybody to read it or listen to it and listen to the crowd and how the crowd
reacts to certain things. He says at times, Yeah, it wasn't a hospital for out for him.
No, it wasn't. And so I love that we're I mean, we're having a conversation about having a conversation before you know, going on to social media. And I argue that most people who have well I shouldn't say this, but I would imagine a lot of people who are hearing or reading about this have only heard or read about it on social media. And so take the time for yourself to watch it and have a measured conversation about it. Maybe we can all learn a little bit more about each other.
And thank you women who are mothers, thank you women who are wives, thank you women who are daughters, thank you women who work. That is from Pope John Paul and a letter to women in which he was almost it's almost a love letter to women, you could argue, but he that's quoted a lot of times back in nineteen ninety five to where he said thank you to women who work. Quote, we need only think of how the gift of motherhood is often penalized rather than rewarded.
Even though humanity owes it's very survival to this gift, much remains to be done to prevent discrimination against those who choose to be wives and mothers. Paul John, Paul your guy, what used to be your guy?
Yeah, I mean he's the people's the people's fault. Now he's beloved, and that's the reason why he was canonized. Yeah, yeah, I know. I mean, I I think I want to close with this that you know, us women we're I think we're we fill many roles. We work really hard, whether we're working in the home outside of the home.
Uh.
And I just hate to make or for any woman to feel like they're less than or more then, or better then or worse than if they choose what's right for them and for their family. And I think that was my biggest issue, just you know, support women no matter what they do, and a man shouldn't. I just don't think a man should be encouraging a woman one way or the other. I think we need to support
whatever a woman feels is right for her. And that is where I would like to end my contribution to the conversation.
Is this a thing where it's going to turn into one of those things where you the only option you have in commenting about this story is to absolutely condemn him, and anything short of condemning him in everything he said, you are then opening yourself up to criticism. Is this one of those things?
It's a tricky It's a tricky conversation that's been had for decades and decades, and I just don't think there's a right answer other than supporting women and their choices and supporting women who don't have a choice. And no woman should feel bad or guilty about doing what's right for her and for her family.
What would you like to do today? Meeting one? No, I just didn't want to. I didn't want to suggest or encourage you to do something that you didn't already. I just want to make sure you have a choice.
Yes, yes, I appreciate that. No One, I don't feel that pressure. Thank you. Honey.
All right, folks, I encourage you to read it or go watch it, but thank you as always for hanging out with the two of us and hopefully this conversation helped and move things forward a little bit and not backwards. See y'all.
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