Hey there, folks. Sure, Michael Phelps has a bunch of Olympic medals, but he only got his for swimming, so we ain't impressed because our guest today has medals in several different disciplines and in summer and winter games. So take that, Phelps. Welcome everybody into this episode of Aby and TJ Roapes. This is I'm excited. Our guest today is someone I want more people to.
Know exactly, Oksana Masters. She is the most decorated winter para Olympian of all time. And it's funny you mentioned Phelps because I was looking up the many articles that have been written about her and they said she dominates sports to a Phelpsian degree. That is exactly how they described her, because yes, she's a multi sport athlete. You don't see that when you look up Olympic athletes this level. No, no, because you have to be focused singularly on what you
do and do it best, you know better than everyone else. Correct, But no, she has multiple sports and I love summer and winter Olympics.
Are you kidding me?
Right now?
How do you do that?
And if you're not impressed enough already, Just before we came on to record this episode. We were just chatting with her before we bring her in, and she told us she just went for a ride, a recovery ride for an hour and forty five minutes.
Just an easy just an easy bike ride, an hour and forty five minutes. That's basically the equivalent of running a half marathon. Yes, well for us, for us, for Olympians, not so much.
But for us, let's please say hello to Aksana Master's dear lady, thank you so so much for being here and explain to people like you explained to us, why isn't an hour and forty five minutes cycling for you just a cool down, a recovery ride. Explain that.
Well. First of all, thank you guys so much for the like the extremely generous behind intro. Oh my gosh, I have never been compared to like, oh Phelps cnsque like comparison at all. That was so funny. Also, you guys are runners, like you guys run, I have three
wheels and gears and stuff like that. A big difference doing an hour forty five cool down to running for an hour and forty five for sure, But because it's an hour forty five cool down, my races can vary, like the time trial is between it can be like a five mile race to about a fifteen sixteen mile race all out you and the clock, no drafting, but a road race and pack racing like the one coming up in Paris is seventy seventy one kilometers long, so it's like it's and it's gonna take a while. So
it's like just about double of the marathon. So because we'll be racing for three hours on the bike, it's just putting in that sweat equity in that time.
Yes, that's a lot of endurance that you have to prepare for. So we mentioned you have competed in para rowing, para biathlon, Paris, Nordic skiing, paras cycling.
I can't even keep it straight.
And you've been competing in the Paralympics since twenty twelve. What are you What are the specific events or I should even say sports that you're competing in for the Paris Paralympics.
For the Paris Paralympics, I'm getting old. It's just cycling. I'm sticking to two events only and doing that and in cycling the road events, so the time trial and the road race, and yeah, and then in two years from now is the Milong twenty twenty six Games, So I'd be lying if I'm not training for Paris going into it with literally I already checked out the gym and the minute my events start, I'm going to transition
to the winter side of cross country skiing. But yeah, it's just those two events, and it's going to be It's going to be, honestly really challenging because in the US cycling is such an underrepresented sports and the resources for it isn't as equal as my European competitors, where endurance sports and cycling is the Olympic level of their team, they put the same resources and investments in as to
their paracycling team too. So it's going to be really interesting but fun, and I'm hoping to put cycling more on a map for the US, especially for la coming up.
You know, why isn't it there yet? Why is the European Why are the European countries so better or making more of an investment and has it been getting better over the years that we still got a long way to go here?
Oh, in the US, I mean, it's gotten so much better for para sport in general, there's still so much that can be done, and it's very easy, simple things like you guys allot to share my journey in my sports with you and letting the world hear that because that's something that we can get better on and hear more stories of incredible Paralympic athletes that I have a lot of teammates who are gold medalists and our world record holders, but you don't hear it because it's not
the culture within our country for endurance sports besides the marathon. Really, but like the viewership is getting so much better. The sponsorship opportunities are so much better for para sports than it was in twenty twelve when I was an athlete. But in Europe in general, like cycling is just a way of life, and endurance sports in general are just more. Like it's so cool racing in Europe because in cycling, when you're a world champion, you get the rainbow stripe jerseys.
In the US, if I'm out writing or walk in or something with my rainbow stripe jersey here, no one understands what that is. We were at a hotel and Belgium and just this regular old couple were like they see the Jersey and they're saying something in and they're in whatever language that they were speaking in, and they're like, oh, champion, champion, because they recognized because it was so universal.
Axana, you should walk around with your seventeen Olympic Paralympic medals and then they would know you you have seven gold, seven silver, and three bronze. I bet you'd get some attention.
I don't know about that. I just want to help inspire the next generation of young girls, specifically to see all the different sports and to not limit yourself to try just one from a young age. Try them all until you find that one that you love, one that means yeah. And if that means you have like seventeen medals along the way, then.
Which one is your favorite event?
Oh that's so tough because it's like which one's your favorite child.
My mom could tell you which one's your favorite child.
It's not.
He's like, it's me.
She knows me already.
Yeah, I would say probably rowing to be honest, it's the one I don't compete in now, but it's that sport. It's it's like that first one, my first games. A lot of people don't know. I tried to actually make the Paralympic team in two thousand and eight when I found out about the Paralympics and I didn't make it
in rowing. In that and it was that moment where I did not make that team in rowing is when I realized how badly I really wanted this and how much more it meant to me than just representing Team USA and going to the Paralympics. But you have also better to handlines in rowing than cycling. No handlines. You just look deathly pale.
That's so funny. I love that. I love that you even went there. That's great.
You know, I want to bring people up on your story. It is you say you want to be an inspiration. I mean, you just read the first few sentences of what your early childhood was like, and it's it's mind blowing that you are where you are and you're doing what you're doing. You were born in Ukraine and you were born with multiple congenital disabilities.
Correct. Can you tell us a little bit about that.
Yeah, So it wasn't actually until I was adopted. When I was almost eight, went to my first dentist in America where they took X ray's my teeth and they saw radiation signs of radiation in my adult teeth, and so linking it to where I was and the path of Chernobyl and the nuclear power plant leak that went off there, even though it was two years prior from when I was born or three years wow, like the radiation levels rise even higher throughout the years, even more
so than what it was the first explosion of it. Also, my village where I lived in one of the orphanages, had an active nuclear power plant that would also leak frequently, and so when I it was Yeah, so they just concluded because of my birth, defects were everywhere. There were my teeth, my organs, my hands. I don't have a bicep on my right side, so if I'm not focusing, I felt weird veer off to the left because I's not just have to have that much more focus on
it and in utero deformities or BRIT's effects. It's the only reason, how what that explains for all of my body having a little bit of an impact in the developing stages, where if it was just like oftentimes it's other one side of the body that has an impairment like a left and a right or it's very specific limbs. But to have organs and to have enamel stripped from my teeth when inside, like that's the only thing I
can do it before birth is radiation. And I'm just so bombed because when I found out about how I got to be born with all these disabilities, are this deformities? Like why couldn't I be like Hulk, Like he gets that all that stuff, But I have this thing where my hair won't curl, Like that's not cool, but I mean it is.
It is remarkable, and I love that you can look at it with humor, because that is sometimes the best medicine of all, dealing with everything you've dealt with. But this is all from the aftermath of Chernobyl. I mean, it's just it's crazy. But you had your legs were different lengths correct, and you didn't You had no thumbs. Each hand had web fingers. Each foot had six toes.
I mean this and your biological parents.
I was so proud of that six toes. I should have stuck to swimming. I was born with web toes and web feet.
Why it's true.
I guess that would be helpful.
I'm sure you probably Yeah, you'd get in trouble because you just had an advantage over everyone else.
Yeah, then watch out, Michael Felts, right, and then you really could do it.
But your biological parents left you at an orphanage, correct.
Yeah, And before I really realized how the adult understanding of why one would do that, especially to the orphanages that I was left, and I was so angry at them because I could not understand why somebody would do that. And my mom, who adopted me, is so kind, so loving, and always gave them a benefit of the doubt, and
she was correct. Everything that she told me was growing up is I'm sure they loved you, and it was the hardest decision they had to make that they just didn't have the resources to provide with all the things that you were going to need to be healthy. And later on, that's what I find out was one of the reasons is the government just basically eventually just told them like she died, to stop trying, like they did not want to give me away, and the government just
said she died, so they just relinquished me. Little did they know I actually did not die. I'm too stubborn for that. I think die and I've lived my first years and three different orphanages, And the way it works is you go into like from birth to two, you're in one orphanage, and then from two to five you're in like a baby home, and then five years old you're considered an adult, so you move into the adult orphanage with other kids that are also up to fifteen
at fifteen for a female, sixteen for men. And if you're not adopted by them, they just you're just put out on the street, or a lot of the men go into wow military.
Did you ever have a follow up or connect with your birth parents afterwards? Do you have any idea where they are, what happened to them?
I do, so I do now through more, I found out I have two biological brothers, which is so crazy all through because when I was I had the opportunity to go to the US Embassy in Kiev for a diplomatic reason in twenty fifteen, because at that time it was around the twenty fifth anniversary of the Ada Act, and also because in twenty fourteen, not to get political and bring it up, but right at like between the socio Olympic and Paralympic Games, Russia invaded Ukraine and a
lot of the military men were coming back with amputations and all these injuries, so it's kind of a twofold. I went back there because of the anniversary of the Ada Act here in America and how to make society more accessible for civilians, but also for the servicemen and women who are fighting to protect their freedom, and to
show what's possible through prosthetics through wheelchairs. Little did I know I'd have to climb up four flights of stairs to get up to where these people are in their hospital, which was wild. And then I also went there because this is kind of like a short story. I'm just making very long now at this point, I'm so sorry. But I also went there because Ukraine's trying to get rid of orphanage government ran orphanages, and there's two different ones.
There's local orphanages and then there's government ran orphanages, and those are the government ones are where all the corruption happens and the mistreatment happens, and that's where I was from birth. They're trying to turn it more into foster care and to provide these homes were kids can understand and grow up with a homely environment instead of an institutionalized environment, and so that was kind of strange. But because I was there, I literally my birth parents found
out I was alive. I was there. I did not get to meet them there. I wasn't ready for that, but I do want to one day. I want to meet them so bad. So I do want to ask them where did I get this awful hairline from? Is it? Who is it from? And why I ask that on to me? Out of all the things you could. Yeah, like, I'm in communication with my two biological brothers right now, and that's the hardest thing to be honest, is with
what's going on right now with Ukraine. Is just like I have a dream that can only come true in Ukraine, and I really hope one day there is a Ukraine to go back to to meet to know where where I'm from and just get to know this identity. I've always had a question mark that. Yeah, so I just hopefully that will happen.
But yeah, well that is I wasn't expecting that story. But how long I'm sorry, no, no, no, what I'm saying it was, I'm not exactly sure what I was expecting to hear. When you you know, given all you've gone through, what you would feel about your birth parents, and to hear you now, it sounds like you had to get to a place. But how long did it take in life? What age were you before you some of that anger you even talked about started to maybe subside, and you didn't hold a grudge against.
Them, Oh my gosh. Honestly, honest, I'd be lying if I say I didn't have a little bit of anger now. But it's not to them. It's just it's just that. And I get this A lot A lot of people are like, how are you so proud to be Ukrainian? Why do you still love a country and so proud in where the Ukrainian flag when you have all these horrible memories, And yes, I do, but that wasn't the country that it wasn't Ukraine. It was just a few
bad eggs. They're everywhere. They're within our families, they're within our communities. There's a few bad eggs. And I could choose to let those few bad eggs determine how I view where I come from and my identity, which is that's my identity. I'm very proud to be Ukrainian and I have really good memories, but I I don't know, like it was sports for me is what helped me process that and rowing and every time I had to process and understand, like what happened to me was a
not okay. And I think it just one of those things that like a little bit of anchor is gonna always be there, but not to them specifically, just a little bit of like why do people have to do
this to young kids, powerless kids without voices? And then when I released my memoir, I got an overflooding amount of messages from kids in Ukrainian orphanages, but orphanage in general like too that said, oh my gosh, I went through the exact same thing literally they and this was and they were just getting adopted or their new lives somehow. And this is just within like three four years. So that's the anger that I have more is that this is still happening. It hasn't changed.
The abuse of young children in these institutionalized orphanages exactly.
Yeah, And you know, it's it is hard because I have I can be angry about my disability, about my hands, about my legs, but I think the hardest thing for me that I had to overcome was the scars on my body. That's not resulted from my disability. It's a scar that a story has been written for me. I never got to choose how I got it, where it was placed, or why. And that's that's when I think about the anger, like that's just what it has. But then like for me, the power of sport just really
helped me process it. I had to heal physically with my new imputations and everything else, but it helped me heal mentally and emotionally in ways I had no idea that I truly needed. And it was a way like when you're a kid. I got into rowing when I was thirteen. A lot of my memories I was suppressing around sixteen to twenty, they were all flooding back. There's like that's so true, Like where you can only put a box and tie it up and you just get a bigger rubber band around it and put more tape
on it. Eventually that box is gonna explode. It's a matter of time. It's not sustainable. And I had sport in my life when everything inside just exploded and went often. It gave me a path and a direction and a way to be able to express and scream. I always say, like a way to scream without needing to physically scream and process when I didn't have the words to explain and talk to someone of what I'm feeling. And I think in that way because sports became such a healing tool.
Not I want to be an Olympian Paralympic athlete, I want to have a gold medal. It was it was my escape and I loved it so much and that became a secret weapon in a way. Now heading into my seventh Paralympic Games, is that love for sport not just that love for winning.
That's incredible. Yes, sports, you're forced to be in the moment. How did you I'm curious just with with all of the just issues stacked against you physically, and then you said you had amputations. I believe you had both of your legs amputated. What made you think, I know, I'll get it to sports? How were you led in that direction? That would be a lot of people would think the last thing they thought they could do, But you did it.
How did it happen?
It was the last thing I thought I could do too. Actually, I had no idea that I could be an athlete. I was always active as a kid. I was always climbing on things, getting in trouble and just loved moving my body and so my legs. Literally I was missing the main weight bearing bone and I had double of the non weight bearing bone, but it looked like assault Shaker was when you look at the X ray of the bone. Assault Shaker was just sprinkled across. So the
bone itself wasn't formed correctly at all. And I taught myself how to walk to be able to get around in the orphanage, to just survival instinct. But because I was so malnourished, it hurt, but it wasn't affecting me to the point where when I came to America and I grew about I think like eleven inches within the first two months, which is a lot just based on
food alone, and the weight couldn't sustain that. So I had to have amputated above the knee, which in itself is very different than being a below the knee amputee. Like missing every joint you're missing, it just makes it that much harder. And so of course when I was nine and then fourteen, when I had my second leg amputated, I was thinking about, I'll never have my knee pop kiss now. And that's where, like you know, like most knees and stuff, you're just like the knee pops up
and Anne Hathaway and Princess Diaries. I was never gonna have that moment to do that, like, yeah, well okay, now I just got to destruct from what your original question was based on.
That, Well, it was based on after you know you're having amputations, and how do you then think I know I'll be an athlete?
I mean, where does that come from?
I think it's I did not think I was going to be an athlete. It was right before my second amputation I was rowing and I was introduced to rowing my mom and got me involved with ice skating when we lived in Buffalo, New York, and it was more so to learn the language, make some friends get stronger. And then when we moved to Kentucky, I tried rowing and that was my mom too. She's very persistent. We could not be more opposite. She's not athletic, she does
not want to sweat. She's more a homebody who loves reading, which I'm starting to appreciate reading now. But I just wanted to be active. But she did say, just go out and try rowing. We don't ever have to go back there if you don't like it, and I did. It did take some persuasion from finding out there was a cute boy that was volunteering there in my middle school. So I was like, okay, I'll.
Try it is always comes back to some cute boy.
But then when I was in that hospital, have it gone through my second reputation. It was that moment where they amputated. They promised to amputate below the knee, they ended up amputating above the knee, and so when I woke up and I saw both of my legs gone above the knee. It was also a last minute decision. They didn't leave enough skin to close up the incision, so it resulted in addition to the epidural shifting and numbing the wrong leg as well. It resulted in six
months day, followed by more months after that. And it was that moment with the first time I had to be still in my life, and I remember just looking at the tree and just like I want to be I never want to be in this moment again. I want to move. The minute I can get out of here, I'm gonna move. And I thought about rowing getting back on that water and that's the only thing I really thought about to get me through that. But I wasn't thinking about it to be an athlete at that point,
like I just wanted to row. I just wanted to be outside and feel that breeze I face and to not ever be still in a bed. And I think that moment of being an athlete kind of came when not making the Paralympic team in two thousand and eight and making the choice to go and try and make it for London in rowing twenty twelve, moving away from home and spending that whole winter on my own training
with my growing partner, Rob Jones. That's where I think I want to be an athlete and represent Team USA and do it for something so much bigger than just the love of my rowing sport.
Can you help folks for a second, we think about paralympians or people who are disabled have differently able to how or folks often want to say it, and they often lead with that, like that's the first thing that they want to ask about, or they sometimes see or oftentimes it feels like that's the thing that will define someone who has that is differently abled. But it was cool on your website, the about you page, the first thing you say about yourself, I'm a coffee drinker, animal lover,
and world traveler. And so when we started this podcast with you at the top, people didn't We didn't even get into the fact that you have you were born with this defect or that, and how does that and how do how are you an ambassador in that way or how or what advice even would you give to people who might come in contact or get up face to face with you and they don't know what to say or what to ask about or how to treat you.
That kind of a thing. I think that's always still that thing for some people that are uncomfortable and don't know how to how to handle the moment.
That's one hundred percent true. Like I think when we when I see people like literally staring so hard, but they don't want to turn their head to stairs, so they're just choosing to be They think they're so subled by staring their eyeballs to the point they're about to pop out. Guess what, guys, I can still notice that. It's okay, just go on and look. I would look too. If somebody with bionic legs is walking by, and I
don't see that every single day. I'd be like going on here, like don't try and hide it and act like you don't see that. Like it's okay to be curious. Also, it's okay for kids to be curious and ask questions. And you know, I'm too. In the bathroom and this little girl, gosh, she's just so cute and she was so curious and she had to be like four or five, and she's like, what's wrong with their legs? And she's just screaming and the mom's just feeling mortified and she's like,
just stop. She don't say anything, does anything, and that's all that's wrong. She's like, but why, but because and she kept saying, but why, what's wrong with her? Like what's where are her legs? And I've had two, I've had her parents where there like these aren't cool?
Right?
I bet she can run really fast or this this allows her to walk probably better. I'm sure we can ask. That is a great way to like, hey, would you mind, And it's okay to do that. Every person's going to be different. I'm very open to it. I would not be showing my legs and I'm at the point now where I do show my legs I didn't always. It's okay to ask questions, and for those young kids, allow them to be curious because they're just so genuinely authentically
wondering what is this. They're probably think like when they see me in my sit ski or my hand cycle, they're like, oh my god, that was like a rocket. They just see like they're so pure and curious and
genuine and just genuine for individuals. Though, what it is so hard is when I'm at a gas station getting gas or buying toothpaste and dioda and those things that no one likes to buy, but we have to those little small things like I don't want to hear I'm inspiring for those reasons because I'm choosing to be out there living my life, getting gas, buying toilet paper, like because my also, my fiance is a paralympic athlete, and you guys can only imagine the kind of looks we
get or the kind of crazy thoughts people get when they see my fiance who's in a wheelchair and a girl with no legs walking together and he's holding the door for me and I'm walking and we're going to date night for dinner and then this person looks back and like, oh, good for you, that is so sweet. Good for you guys for being out. And then Aaron's like, oaksanna leave it, leave it because well that was a fuse. I don't know if you've guys seen the inside out
the movie, and it's like the angry one. I'm that angry one, and all all of my emotions are just pure anger when it comes to comments.
Like that, because it's past, it's patronizing, it.
Is yeah, and I was like, well as opposed to what, like why should I stop? And I get there are some people that for them it's hard. Everyone has a journey that's going to be their timeline to get to where I am now being okay walking out and being seen. But it's look at me as a human first, don't look at me and think, oh, there's a girl's no legs. First. I love coffee, I am planning a wedding, I love sports.
I don't like the cycling tainlines at all. Like I like just all these like I'm so normal and because I have, my physical appearance is so different. It's not any different from someone if you have curly hair, straight hair, blonde, hair brown, hair, gray, whatever, skin color, language you are glasses, Like why these prosthetics and wheelchairs and canes have to all of a sudden be that, Oh my gosh, that's two different kind of thing, And like, I think it's
going to be different for everyone. I think learn how like people can like read the situation, see how the vibe that individual athlete with a disability has. Maybe, but it's okay to ask questions, genuine questions, but do not automatically assume I'm in the military and come up to me and thank me for my service.
Oh people do that probably a cringe moment because and do you know what they do afterwards or like, oh, thank you for your service or in the military, and I say no, and they're like, oh okay, I walk away and I've literally screamed out, but I still have no legs, Like dude, Like, I.
Mean, that's bizarre. Wow, I mean I can't even imagine the stories you have.
But that's a good point to human being first. If you lead with this is a human being first, and everything else will come. So Yeah, I just liked how you put that on your page. I'm a coffee drink, I'm a world trip. You mentioned all these other things, and yes you you're also a paralympian. That's just a part of.
The so happens to have seventeen medals.
That's so crazy. So I forgot that because all Winter Games. But yeah, like I think it's the more normal. The more society shows and includes people in wheelchairs and prosthetics and shows the Paralympics alongside to the Olympics, it's going to become more normal. We're going to start seeing it
more and more and more. And it's so important for the next generation of young kids for it for them to see all walks of life be represented and seen in the same light as a successful businessman, athletes, all these different areas, so it becomes more normal for them. It's going to be a generation change and we start by now.
That's amazing, and you're one of the main ambassadors. It's so cool to see what you do and just reading up on you and it's just you are remarkable in all that you do. When you are inspiring the next generation in every way, tell us what you're gonna do in Paris? What are you bringing home with you? What are your goals? If you look up like the top ten athletes to notice. Ort of look at you're on the list for your events. So what do you think you're gonna do? You're gonna bring home more metal?
Uh, that's the goal. That is the goal. I hope I can bring back to very shiny yellow esque gold medals, golden squ metals. If not, I just want like a metal I would be so proud. I think, you know,
even those is my seventh Paralympic Games. The one thing I never really had going into the other ones is being so proud of myself and feeling like I truly belong and deserve being on that start line, and having the guts to just race with like, just fearlessly, just believe in your training and just make those attacks be that one to push the pace, push your be uncomfortable,
to make everyone else be uncomfortable. But also, like I do, I do want those medals because I made a promise to myself if I can, especially and because shanellebag's got so expensive now it's just to a gold medal. If I get a gold medal, I'm gonna buy my first Shanelle bag because you can only buy it from there.
I love that. That's awesome. That is awesome. That's that's very incentivizing on Sonday.
It is such a pleasure to talk to you. We were very excited to do so. We've been reading up on you for the past week or so, so we uh, we were excited, and you have exceeded all expectations. You are an absolute hoot and just as normal as anything. Like you said, folks, it's okay, she's a human being first, but I.
Think I'm just over caffeinated as all.
Oh, when's the wedding? By the way, that's a good question.
Ask Aaron that it took him You guys, don't let ever do it to your partners. But it took him eight years and three months.
To proposed days eight years three months.
And it was three weeks and I think it was like around like six days five days. As this is Aaron. No, he's not my fiance and my boyfriend. Still we've been dating for eight years and three months.
That's amazing. I love that.
But you saw the racer, the runner in the Olympics. She she finished the race, she got fourth, but she went over to the stands and proposed.
Herself after nine years of data.
It was nine years, so Hey, give it. Don't be so hard on Erin. Don't don't you do back him just saying it could have been worse.
It is all we were dating for for that, but we were together and I've known him more than that.
Well, good luck, give him our best and at least tell him I'm rooting for him. But let congratulations. We will be watching you for sure in Paris. It's an absolute pleasure talking to you and good luck and we absolutely want to talk to you down the road.
All right, Thank you guys so much.
Thank you, Exana, have a wonderful day you too.
Then, folks, you know where to find us as always on our official Instagram page at Amy and TJ Podcast