Hey there, everybody. It is Friday, October thirty first, yes, Halloween twenty twenty five. And well, first it was Bill Owens, the executive producer of sixty Minutes. Then it was Wendy McMahon, the president of CBS News. Then it was Nora O'Donnell. Then it was Stephen Colbert, then it was John Dickerson. And now we're getting word that it is Gail King who could be leaving CBS. And with that, welcome everybody to this episode of Amy and TJ Rohobs. This is,
I guess, a jolting headline for the industry. We shouldn't be surprised to see this at all, though, right.
Well, there were predictions that there were going to be major changes in shifts and potentially what and who we see basically headlining CBS News, And if this is true, this would be the biggest jolt of them all, for sure.
You say, if this is true, and we're speaking on it today, because it does come from a reputable outlet, Variety, citing at least four sources with knowledge of the situation, say that the anchor, the head anchor, the star, the celebrity, and the one who's been there longest at CBS News on their morning show. Gail King would be leaving, is expected to leave that show at least robes starting next year when her contract is up.
Yes, the headline specifically reads this, Gail King expected to depart as CBS Morning anchor amid CBS News overhaul and then says exclusive.
And it says she could stay with CBS.
That's part of their story or their reporting that she would just be shifting roles in May when her contract is up. But they say that CBS would like her to stay with the company, but just perhaps not in that role. It's unclear if she would be initiating this change, if they are initiating this change we've seen in the past or at least recently the folks who have left. John Dickerson didn't say why, but the other folks have left has specifically referenced the change in editorial direction.
Yes, and you're talking specifically, Wendy McMahon, you're talking specifically Bill Owens sixty minutes. Again, we talked about that when he stepped out. That's a job, that is the ultimate job. You do not leave something is going on of the utmost seriousness. If you voluntarily step out of that job. So of course folks are familiar with the mergers that have been going on Skydan Spy's Paramount. They plays Barry Weiss someone. Is it fair to say she's an entrepreneur
when it comes to journalism online? But is she certainly a conservative? She's been.
Yes, she was a conservative voice and a conservative of republican op ed columnist for the New York Times at one point. Even so, she has not been shy about sharing her political leanings.
Okay, so she is the one now in charge to be in charge of CBS News, and yes, they're going through some changes. They just announced a round of layoffs over at Paramounts, some of them touching CBS News. They expect more, but changes. This is what happens. But when you start seeing robes, it concerns people. But we've now been seeing it for a couple of years. If you go back to hod of cod by Lester Holt, who have been leaving jobs, these are big, big jobs and
they're voluntarily stepping away. At least that's what we're being told publicly.
The idea is that the ratings just aren't what they were, and so the money isn't what it was meaning the profits.
And so these folks.
These big names, these major broadcast news anchors, have major salaries, and so the reporting has been that these folks have been offered or were offered a version of staying at the networks just for a lot less money. And so a lot of these big names have chosen to leave or massively scale back their duties to justify this lowered salary.
More power makes sense.
And some of them have stuck around in different capacities. And that's fine, dude, am I'm not overstating, right, She's the biggest star of CBS News.
She might be one of the only stars that people could still name. Yes, there's Jane Pauly and Leslie Stall. I think there are some other names that you know of, like very I mean we're talking women though in their what eighties at this point.
They have been big names for a long long time. But in terms of like.
Modern current biggest talent at CBS News, I would say it's absolutely guiltcare right, yes.
And she has been in that role for I didn't realize it was that long. Was a twelve twelve year twelve that is a that is not a small feat to be able to do that these.
Days, especially when you're the third ranked morning show and everyone around you has been moved and changed and has left to try and change or pick up or do something to the rating. So the fact that she's survived many different iterations of including a name change for the morning show, the fact that we actually didn't know what the show is called anymore.
We were a little confused.
It is right now CBS Mornings, but it was CBS this Morning when she started, and it wasn't twenty twelve. That was Charlie Rose, Nora O'Donnell, and Gail King in twenty twelve. Of course, has gone through several iterations and several anchors since twenty twelve, and she has been the constant look. She's brought all a lot. She is the face of that network in almost every way. She is a celebrity.
She's brought Oprah on board over there. We all remember with that R. Kelly interview and how she handled that absolutely brilliantly. That raised her profile even more. She's kind of it. But we say all that robes they have barely no excuse me, they have never gotten out a third place.
No, not in modern history. I don't remember a time since we were in the network morning show game. They were always not just a third, but folks would often write distant third.
It wasn't even a competitive third.
So but still get away from the ratings for a second. There's a matter of value that she's adding to CBS that I can't imagine them voluntarily giving up.
We've talked about this look. When it comes to morning show ratings wars. A lot of times it's about the bookings. Who you can get to sit down with a journalist on your team, and when you have star power, when you're Oprah's best friend, when you've got the name and face recognition that Gail King has, that makes a big difference in terms of getting big interviews and beg gets. They're always competitive among the three morning shows. You want your star talent out there recruiting for you.
And she's a draw. I mean she If you're if you're having a conversation with somebody, Okay, you want to go to the number one, the number two, or the number three. Most people say, wow, I don't want to go to the number three. Oh wait, Gail is over there. That is really a part of the game, and she is a part of a draw in that way that has nothing to do with a viewer deciding I want
to watch Gail Kane this morning. What's after that. I'm sure they do their research and they're looking for whatever, but I don't know what direction they're going to go, but she just seems to be a household name in a way. This made me concerned when I saw this robes about what's going to happen to morning shows because we never thought that in late night show would get canceled, and CBS has already done that with Colbert, not canceled him, canceled the show exactly right, So it's hard to fathom
broadcast morning shows going on. It.
Actually it makes me feel it's sad.
I hate that.
It's sad because you see the.
End of an era and something that not only was important in terms of bringing information to people watching in the mornings as they were getting their routine down, they're listening to the news, and of course that's important, but just as a part of our culture and a part of life, you know, I remember growing up all of us, do I think probably listening having a morning show on in the background. It was just a constant and to think of it, going away, And certainly it's obviously become
less significant and less relevant. We know that, but to see it potentially even become just a shell of what it was is sad.
And specifically when you talk about CBS.
Yes, we just got word John Dickerson, the co anchor of the evening news program, is stepping down.
Two days or three days ago.
Well I've lost count now.
But no word about whether or not his co anchor, Maurice Dubois is sticking around. But certainly, Barry Wise, this has been anticipated. She actually and this has been acknowledged, has even floated names around about who she'd like to bring into CBS News. She wants a diversity of opinion and a diversity of culture. And I'm not talking about black, brown, white, We're talking about political diversity.
Yeah, because they see it for so long, some do as it's been one voice and one side there say okay, fine, thank yourself out. There's just a matter of Look, it's important to there are plenty of folks listening morning shows, you all talking about it so fondly. It has never been a part of my life, is not a part of my day. There are people who have no clue
about broadcast morning shows. There folks probably under the age of you take a poll walking down the street under twenty one name a couple of morning show anchors might take them a minute.
Yeah, I bet you. They wouldn't be able to.
They might even have a hard time coming up with the name of the program at this point when you're talking about that young of an audience, because they simply are not watching morning news show, and the ratings will show that when you look at the demos, it's actually astounding, and.
So to that point, it's tough to justify this stuff. So if you go back, Rose, I'm trying to get my years right, So I'm gonna go twenty years twenty years ago, what is this, twenty.
Twenty five, So twenty oh five, two thousand and five.
That season the Today Show was number one, and they were averaging that season about six to six and a half million viewers. So you'll hear what I'm saying. The number one morning show twenty years ago was averaging six
six and a half million viewers. The Today Show is now in number two plays and their numbers now compared to six million they used to get twenty years ago, they getting about two and a half million now right, that was their average viewership the last season, and they finished in number two.
Those were the days.
I was at the Today Show back then MSNBC Weekend, Today, Today's Show, and talk about the money flowing. These salaries of the anchors were leaked out. You're talking Matt Lauer was making twenty million dollars a year. We were flying all over the world. No budget was too big, and really, I don't think anyone realized at the time that was the very end of the era, and things started to change very dramatically after that.
Well, we were doing look not gonna it's not gonna be an indictment of the industry. We're not gonna do that class today. But the reality of the situation is that you cannot sustain these salaries if you're not sustaining these numbers. So we talk about twenty years ago where the numbers were even then robes, when the Today Show is getting six and six and a half CBS mornings, it was getting about three, like half the audience back then. Now one point nine to four million viewers is the average.
So you cannot justify being in third and paying I guess whatever salary it might be it just the numbers don't work out.
And when you look at the demo, which is what the advertisers are really looking at in terms of who they're trying to advertise for, and that's what is that twenty is twenty five to fifty.
Four, and then there's an eighteen to forty nine.
Right, twenty five to fifty four.
You've got money, you've got experience, and they're trying to Obviously, the younger demos even may be more important in moments because you're trying to get viewers to establish a pattern and to come back to you so that advertisers can have someone to advertise to for many, many years. But yeah, they only have three hundred. They have less than three hundred and fifty thousand folks watching who are in that coveted demo. That's a drop in the bucket. I mean,
what is that one percent of our population? Wow?
Three forty six. It's just to see it. It's been going this way and people have been warning about it, and we used to hear it all the time in the hallways. Your industry is going away and that we say, yeah, yeah, yeah, and we did we kept I say we as a part of this industry kept holding on, and some of that was holding on to hope, not necessarily changing any strategy. You look at every morning show and it looks pretty much the way it did twenty years ago. A couple
of anchers sitting behind the desk. There's some movements, some new graphics, toss the weather.
It looks the same. It does.
It really does. So hasn't changed to evolve to what maybe people want in their intention spans And.
This is where we are, yeap, that is where we are, and it's reported no one ever knows for sure, but the last report Gail King just had signed a one year edition last May, and she signed for ten million dollars.
That's what That's what the report is. That's how much she makes.
And yeah, that's tough to justify when you have ratings like we just talked about.
And again she does, I think, a fantastic job. There was a just a there is a way that she goes about that I appreciate, right. I think people call her Auntie a lot of times. She does. She comes off sometimes, especially early on, she wasn't that.
Well.
She didn't look like she was media trained at a journalism department somewhere. She was just being herself, and there was something warm about the way she handled r Kelly is a that's the best example, Robert Robert, when he's getting up flailing almost dangerously close to her. Robert, that is, I guess an appeal she has that I absolutely love. I hope you stays. I hope she sticks around forever.
There aren't many journalists like her. And you mentioned her warmth, her authenticity. She's real and she's not putting on airs, and I do think that that is something that you don't often see. People are too polished, they're too perfect, they're too concerned about what other people think of them.
She doesn't have any of those traits. She really does have. She's somebody who you feel like you can trust.
Yeah, I appreciate that, even her. Again, this is another big, high profile moment they went does she went to space. That's how big of a star she is oway there. That's what she brings to that place. And she runs in circles with these folks, a lot of them. She has access to them outside of being with CBS. She leaves CBS. She's got these friends already. But it was that space trip you talk about her authenticity. You remember when she rang that she.
Was so scared please, She wasn't even trying to tell like she was brave in that moment, she was scared to death. That it was the phase I would have had, yes, And it was so relatable because yes, I think anybody who's actually being honest probably would look and feel the same way.
That was one of her best TV moments in my opinion, and she was authentic. But all of this being talked about the reporting from Variety, The conversation is going on everywhere right now. But what is CBS News saying about it? Yes, they had to respond. Stay here, we'll tell you what their statement was.
Continuing our conversation now about this very detailed and fairly significant headline that we got from the credible news gathering agency of Variety magazine. And they are reporting that Gail King is expected to leave her position as the morning show anchor at CBS News. And they say amid a CBS News overhaul.
So the.
I guess they're suggesting that it might not be her choice, it might be CBS's choice.
No one really knows, but they say.
That they have four sources who have knowledge of this conversation, and obviously their reporting was significant enough for CBS to release a statement.
And this is where it for me, at least, I'm like, oh, this is real. Pay attention to these, to the wording. Governments are really good at it. Politicians are really good at it. Put out statements that seem to be denying something, but certain things get left out. So this is how CBS News responded to Variety quote, there have been no discussions with Gail about her contract that runs through May
twenty twenty six. She's a truly valued part of CBS and we look forward to engaging with her about the future.
Correct.
They did not deny that she would be leaving CBS Morning Show whatever it's called, CBS This Morning, This Morning Morning Stop, Oh my gosh, CBS Mornings. Okay, So they did not deny that, and they just said they haven't had a discussion with Gail. They could have been talking to her agents, her representatives, and so that would still be true if they were having conversations with her people.
You know, I'm very literal, right in all we do in our relationship, everything we talk about it.
Is to an annoyingly specific yes.
I take you at your word. And I am only interpreting, not looking for a meaning. I am taking you for what you say.
What I meant to say.
We don't want to hear it.
You know what I really meant was.
I'm just telling you what CBS said. And they say there have been no discussions with about her contract. There are no discussions with her about her contract that runs through May twenty twenty six. Why did they need to include the fact that the contract is up in May of twenty twenty six. Now, Flip Coin, who knows? We look forward to engaging with her about her.
Future, which could be a number of positions.
But it means it's uncertain.
Correct.
You come out and say we love this woman, she is everything to us, and we hope she never leaves that chair. You don't even show a sign of support for her in what she's currently doing.
Now.
I don't know what discussions were had before this statement went out, but I don't like that. I know what it feels like to not be supported by the place where you're working. You gotta say, yes, we know she's a value part of CVS. We watch, we get e gate, we look forward to engaging with her. This almost sounds like us versus her like, we're gonna come to battle and figure out I don't like that much. I get it,
and we get the business ropes. We get that what they put out and why they had to put this out, well, that sucks. It sucks.
It does, and no word from Gail King herself. And we actually watched Friday morning's broadcast just to see if she would acknowledge it or say anything. We highly doubted that she would, but just in case she did not. But the big question is would she want to stay after being taken off the show?
Could she?
I don't even want to say say face because she may not want to stay on the show. It may be her choice, and this statement from CBS News might have been a reaction to them knowing she doesn't want to stay on the show. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes, and we don't know where her head is. But there have been situations when it has been that person's choice, whether it was a financial decision
or what. But lester Holt decided to stay and continued to do some date lines just to keep his you know, his toe in the water, his foot in the game, and that can be nice. And we've seen other folks like Diane Soyer do the same thing when she left World News tonight, and so that's not unheard of at all.
But it also might be her choice. And that's a grind getting up every single day at that time. Yeah, that's a lot on her. Maybe she's I mean, she's seventy now. Maybe she wants to kick back and take it easy for a little bit. Maybe she can get her own show, some kind of talk situation. There's all kind of streaming options. She yeah, But at the same time, bro, given all the turmoil, she might say, you know, let me go ahead and get on out of here. Well, just let it go and go live my life.
And seeing other prominent journalists take a truly what seems to be a moral stand, or at least a stand of integrity or ethics, journalism ethics, she may feel like she's in really good company to do so, and she'll be on the right side of history for heading out.
He look, CBS, they have to they have to have to handle this well because Gail generally speaks, is beloved, right, She's not necessarily a figure, not until I think, what was it the space trip that she became polarizing to a certain degree, and that might have had a lot to do with one of her mates that was on the capsule with her. But still she has, for the most part, enjoyed warmth from the audience. Yes, if CBS is seen in any way shape of on pushing her
out the door, that might struggle. They might struggle to hold on to some of the audience they have right now.
I wonder how much they care about that. And you just said the most important part hold on to the audience they have right now.
They want to bring in a whole different audience.
They want to bring in a whole other segment of America to watch and trust mainstream news in a way that many believe those folks have been disenfranchised it franchised from.
And a big step in getting those people to watch you is probably saying, hey, we just got rid of Oprah's best friend. That would happidly work in some circles, would it not. Yes, well, yes, that might be part of the strategy as well.
We will have to wait and see what happens, if Gail says anything, if CBS says anything further, but certainly, yeah, this is how many months away.
Are we from that five, six seven, So.
Certainly word will have to come soon enough. But things are for sure changing.
It'll be a big May over there, the morning and the evening, right, Colbert is up in May.
Yes, yes, man, lots of changes, all right.
Thank you so much everyone for listening to us on this Saturday.
I may be Robuck alongside TJ.
Holmes.
We hope you all have a wonderful week on this Saturday.
Saturday.
Yeah it's a Friday. Yeah wow, man, I'm losing it.
I want to get to the weekend too, baby, but slowly down, all right. We'll talk to Gus soon.