Hey there, folks, Happy Thanksgiving. It is Thursday, November twenty seventh. And how are you holding up at the house with some of those relatives. How many glasses of wine are flowing right now? Is Uncle Ted on his third beer? Is and Lucy on her second margarita and our explosive conversation starting to happen. Well, we have a full proof method for surviving that foolishness. And with that, welcome to
this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. You said this is something I do, but I didn't know there was a name for it.
Yes, as soon as I started reading about a sort of communication tool that can help protect you in moments of potentially toxic and explosive conversations, you can do something that a lot of experts have named gray rocking. And when I read the description of what gray rocking is, I thought, DJ does this every day.
Okay, now what you just described, did you piece together just based on the name what they were talking about?
No, I heard.
When I read the description of what gray rocking is, I actually started laughing. So basically, I like the idea behind it. So it's a tool they say that involves being less engaged during an emotionally toxic interaction.
Okay, less engaged during an emotionally toxic interaction.
Right. It's become a they call it a like a pop psychology phenomenon. It's not something that necessarily you learn when you go to school to become a psychiatrist or a psychologist, but it's become something. A mental health blogger coined the phrase that's who they're giving credit to back in twenty twelve, and it just exploded on social media as things tend to do when someone says something that's funny, that has kind of a cool name and reson and this one resonated with a lot of people.
So here is Here is what it basically is.
You respond to comments, a goating comment, perhaps something that's trying to get you to have a reaction, with a blank expression and a calm, neutral tone. You basically imagine that you're a dull gray rock.
It sounds almost like you're just ignoring the person you're listening. This is more of your You're not ignoring them, but you're ignoring their emotion. You're not reacting to that explosive thing, which then, in my experience, makes people go crazy.
It one hundred percent does So when you and I were just friends, I definitely saw you use this tool with other people, but I had never been the recipient of it. And then when we have had some tense moments over the years, when you are the recipient of it, man, you feel it. It's and it does. It makes you crazy because you want someone to match where you are.
You want someone to spar with you, to be as emotionally invested as you, and when they aren't, it is remarkable what that experience is like.
I've never known this to be a thing or a tool. I don't know where it came from. With me, It's just how I'm built. I never react to somebody's emotion, you know, I don't as crazy as things get. I don't yell, I don't scream.
I don't. That's just not how I handle anything.
And somehow that's scarier.
I just I know it's you know what, it's always useless. Always I think it's pointless. It's a waste of energy. And if somebody's doing that, I never want to match that energy. I can't out yell you, I can't out emotion you.
So do your thing, but that takes so see to me, and they talk about this, we'll get into it. It for most of us that takes a tremendous amount of restraint of discipline. And while you could have it probably with some people, other people that it's much more difficult to be able to feel the emotion you're feeling on the inside and not show it or express it on the outside.
Maybe I don't feel the anxiety.
That's that I was just gonna ask you, get what I'm saying.
Get what I'm saying, all right.
So they actually give if you know that you're walking into a family dynamic that could possibly be explosive or filled with tension, or you've been dealing with it today and you have the weekend still to get through, they actually give people some really good tips on how to use the gray Rocking method, and a lot of it
starts with preparation. So they say, before you even go to the dinner, before you go to the event, before you go to the family gathering, repeat a mantra that might allow you to tap into a gray rock mindset, whatever that is, like I am calm, I am I am gray, I am dull, I am boring, Like you literally tell yourself, I am not going to be interesting wow, Because it's also about making yourself uninteresting to talk to if you want the conversation to end and you don't
want to be rude, or you don't want Aunt Linda to come up and ask you ridiculous, probing questions. If you're really boring, she'll move on to somebody who's more interesting. And that's the concept that.
Almost sounds like you're being rude.
Well you just have, so, yes, there are. That's why they give you tips.
Okay, so you part of this is also changing your voice, like have a flat effect. They say, a neutral tone in your voice, so you don't so you're not like, oh my god, hi, because that's inviting someone to come talk to you, or it probably wouldn't invite you to come talk to me. But you're just basically like this, which is kind of boring. Okay, limit your eye contact,
it's not a problem, and only give brief, disinterested replies. Basically, they say it's not fun to talk with somebody who has a blank expression and doesn't seem to be absorbing what you're saying.
Okay, now, is this a tool you're supposed to use when it's someone who is coming at you, like if you're in an argument with a mate.
Is this a good mat is different? We'll get into that.
This is about This is about family members who you don't have to see on a regular basis. So these are people who you might have to see once a year or twice a year.
But what if they're.
Talking to you about something they're genuinely excited about and you're not interested in. Shouldn't you just lend your ear for something they're so excited.
About, not if you want to get out of the conversation. So they said, this is I like this. Think of yourself like the sky. No matter how bad the weather, no matter how violent the thunderstorm, the sky is not damaged in any way.
Oh my Christ.
But some of this does take some mental preparation. You're not buying it.
I am well the mental preparation. I think you lost me a little bit. I get what you're saying. I think it's very difficult. Like people are listening, like, give me a real tool, and you really want me to walk into Thanksgiving with the two kids in the back, and I'm carrying this damn cast role and I'm supposed to go.
I will be boring. I will be boring.
I will yeah to repeat a mantra, I I don't think that's a tool.
That most people are going to you. So what else do you got?
Okay, so they gave they gave an example. So Uncle Bob gets you in the corner and starts talking politics.
Okay, in previous years, you probably would have taken abait. You would have gotten.
Into some kind of an argument that escalated, maybe even into a shouting match. But this time, when you're gray rocking and he says to you something just totally incendiary about politics, this is what they suggest you do, interesting opinion?
How's work?
Like?
You just don't take the bait.
You switch the subject, but you keep your answers really short, you're not rude. You acknowledge what they just said, and then you completely pivot. And if they're not going to get out of you what they want out of you, they'll move on to find somebody. I mean, everyone's got an uncle like this. He's like hey, and just loves to poke the bear. And you know you got to walk away. But how do you do it? And how do you not take the bait?
You know what we're talking about families and Thanksgiving now. But man, if you use that same tool at work, you could cut down on some of the most toxic things that happen in a workplace.
Gossip.
Right, somebody can't wait to start talking about something a something. Oh yeah, no, I didn't hear about that, But what time is the meeting of mark?
Right?
Don't engage in foolishness, and you know the foolishness as soon as you hear it, pleasantly acknowledge.
It and move on.
That is exactly what they're suggesting. And but I do appreciate this what we were talking about earlier.
Everyone.
I read several articles about this, and they all acknowledged even if you're able to not respond emotionally, you don't give that emotional rise it. It doesn't mean you're not feeling something inside. So they're like, you're not going to change how you feel on the inside, but you absolutely can practice changing how you react on the outside, and
that makes it That's what makes it effective. So they say that, you know, this can be incredibly difficult, especially if someone's hitting your insecurities going right after what your triggers are, and it sounds so easy what you're going to and then when someone says exactly the wrong thing. It's very hard in that moment to remember to acknowledge how you're feeling on the inside, but to not show it on the outside.
You know, how would you poke me? You know my triggers are well, it's my insecurities. Would you know how to poke me?
I wouldn't do it publicly? Wow, I might know and I still wouldn't do it. Like, I also wonder what people's motives are when they choose to go in that direction. It must be a feeling of insecurity on their end, like they want to feel superior and they know how to take you down a notch. It's interesting though, I touched on this when you mentioned the two of us. They absolutely say, do not use this technique and a
romantic relationship. It will absolutely backfire completely. These are the only techniques that you can use for folks who you have a distant relationship with someone, because that's not how you show up for a loving relationship. You don't just disengage. It's not that you not acting emotionally or reacting emotionally isn't a bad thing, but they say it's not a way to get a romantic partner to behave Differently, like if you think somehow I need to know you care.
I need to know you care. So I think this is here's the quote from the psychiatrist. It's not something you do in a relationship that you want to maintain. You only do it in short bursts and relationships where you have no choice but to maintain contact with this person in an environment.
Yeah, so you're forced.
To coexist with someone at work or at the family meal, but it's not someone who you're investing in.
A long term relationship with.
Okay, you asked me if i'd like to see how you handle a couple questions. I came up with just a few to see if I can trigger you. So we'll have your your response when we come back. All the holidays are upon us. It is Thanksgiving Day everybody, and man, aren't you just enjoying your family that you haven't seen for months? And now you're all together in one room with lots of food, maybe some kids running around, probably some alcohol flowing.
What could possibly go wrong?
It has been fun to read some coping mechanisms, some articles that always pop up this time of year, psychiatrist psychologists trying to help all of us handle the stress of the holidays.
And perhaps the.
Toxic relationships that we only have to confront or deal with a couple of times a year, this being one of them. And one of the communication tools they suggest you can use is something that has been colloquial come to be known as gray rocking.
Were you familiar with that term at all?
I heard it?
Neither had I.
It was I'll just call it TJ in.
Yes, TJ is.
You're never rude, and they're not suggesting that this is rude. It's just letting someone know that you're not going to go there, and that's okay thing. I think this actually has a lot to do with boundaries and learning how to make them, but more importantly keep them.
You're very good at that.
Oh my goodness, because I don't know. I don't know where that comes from and why and just time and experience and we just don't I don't know. We've been using this line a lot the past several days, that honesty is one of the kindest things you can grant to somebody, and just I don't know, I don't mind being straight with somebody. I'm never rude about it. But you always say this to you, baby, it's not stop trying to figure out what I mean. I clearly state it.
So that's just it's just that most people don't.
Most people talk around things, they suggest things, they hint at things, they talk in circles.
They are anything but direct.
So yes, you are consistent, consistently direct, which is not something that most of us, I think, are used to. But all right, so look, you're at Thanksgiving and someone comes up to you because.
I know some of the things you don't don't want to answer.
Uh huh, So hey, DJ, long time, No see you doing.
I like what thank you? I like what you did with that ring for Amy? How did you propose?
You know, that's something we just keep into ourselves right now. It was very proud, but we haven't even told our parents. But you probably won't be the first to know.
That's probably gonna be my cue to leave, because if I did have a followup, it was like, wow, it's that's I saw the headlines.
It's massive. How much did that sucker cost?
Oh, my goodness, more than I care to reveal.
All Right, Hey, I know, I know, I'm really happy for you and Amy. I'm I'm happy y'all are engaged. But man, sure you want to get married a third time.
Well, I'm actually looking ahead to my fourth marriage. This is just gonna hold me until then.
Were they going to say? I mean, what are they gonna go? Thank you? Was icond to figure that out?
All right?
I got one more for you, Hey, TJ?
Who are these people in my family gathering that all speak to me with? Hey? Wow? It's just a bunch of women in gig eyes?
I guess, Hey, all right, how's that podcasting income compared to when you were that big time network anchor?
Oh it doesn't even compare. It's not even close. And you leave it there right.
Oh my goodness, So I need you'd be fine because you practiced this daily, if not hourly.
I don't know.
You know what, You've met my mom. She's a smartass, and I think that's where it comes from. She has this crazy quick wit and she's dead paining.
You never know. You don't even know you've been insulted till maybe the next day. What did you say?
The moment I met your mom?
I knew immediately where you got your your quick wit and your personality from. I mean, you've got some elements of your dad and you, for sure, But man, your mom and you told me she doesn't talk much, but when she does listen.
I guess we all become our parents in some way of each other.
Because part of the tactic of this communication tool is to not say much, to say much less.
And that's probably a good thing.
Because, as my mama always told me, everyone's favorite subject is themselves.
Maybe I don't do well. People always think I'm outgoing, I'm this extropt I don't like having to engage. I don't and people I enjoy. But when you put me in a big group where there's some expectation that you need to be engaged rather than just if you want to or not, I struggling. And usually in the groups we're in, there's some expectation that we're supposed.
The whole court.
Yes, yes, but I have learned that it is valuable to just turn the questions back around and get cre cious about that person, even if they're annoying you. Maybe especially if they're annoying you, because if they're talking about themselves,
you're not having to talk about yourself period. Well, we hope you all are enjoying your Thanksgiving on this Thursday, and hopefully you can use this tactic in WOW there's going to be several Christmas parties, holiday parties, more gathering, so we got weeks left of all of this festivity, so.
Just use it at the office next week.
That's true. You could always use that as well.
All right, thank you everybody for listening to us. I'm Amy Roboc alongside TJ. Holmes.
We will talk to you soon.