Hey there, folks.
It is Saturday, August twenty third, and actions speak louder than words. We've been told that our whole lives. And that's what Lyle Menindez was told yesterday, right before he was denied parole, just like his brother the day before. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Special Guests today, Amy. That's funny, I'm king.
It was even funnier that you just called me Amy.
Well then, well I had to go with the welcome to Amy and TJ, so I had to continue.
All right, you've never done that before. I'm just pointing out, but.
It was see why are we doing this? Hey, everybody wall good things. She's back, huh uh. But no, I have a lot of folks know. Robes has been out the past few days since the podcast, dropping off a kid at college in Boulder, But was very much Robes while you were gone keeping an eye on this story. And isn't it the case, Robes that you felt momentum was on their side even for the past year plus, even.
Absolutely with all of the different hurdles that they've been able to cross, so to speak, it felt like, yes, they there was a consensus building and specifically the LA District attorney before the elections. People seem to think that they had served their time for their crime, given the
ages they were when they were committed. In addition to new evidence that came up that showed a pattern of abuse by the menandez brother's father, So there seemed to be reasons for or at least an explanation, a motive that was understandable, at least for perhaps why they did what they did. And so, yes, I was surprised. I was a little surprised.
That they were both correct. So I.
Think to your point, we have been watching Momentum Public Momentum documentaries, New AffA, Davits, new Information. You had a Daou there before he was kicked out. At least he was one leading the rallying prize saying yeah, so all of that, And then the parole hearing happened for Eric on Thursday. And when I heard that, I said, that
makes perfect sense. When you hear a parole board, Y say, yes, folks out there are considering a whole different set of circumstances that we have to consider as a parole board. When I hear the parole board say we don't even we're not keeping you in prison because of what you did to your parents, is because of who you've been the past thirty years in prison, and despite what your endorsers and some of your celebrity endorsers are saying, you two have not been model prisoners.
And you know what's interesting. In Lyle's parole board hearing yesterday, when they were talking to him about their decision, they talked about how they understood that at least there was an acknowledgment that perhaps part of the reason why they behaved the way they did, which was explained as entitled children basically behind bars, could have been because they had no hope of getting out. They had been sentenced to
life in prison without the possibility of parole. It's only been in recent months that they've now been eligible, or even a month, right, how long has it been since they were It was a may re sentenced because of the ages they were at the time the crime was committed. That they were resentenced, which ben made them eligible for parole. So they finally got even a glimmer of hope that they could get out actually through parole a few months ago.
So they acknowledged, we see that you perhaps felt like you had no incentive to behave well, But that doesn't matter because it's still reflective of who you are as a person, and.
To that as well.
On the cell phone usage, this has been going on a while and they knew that this might come up, and they knew the DA last year was trying to get them resentenced. The Lyle's most recent cell phone violation was March of.
This year, right, and he had an explanation. Unlike his brother Eric, he claims that because they do get privileges, they do get phone privileges. I think through a tablet, but obviously those conversations are monitored and documented, so there's no privacy to them. And Lyle claims the reason why he needed a cell phone was because his conversations were being monitored and then part of what he was saying was being leaked to tabloids, so he was using that
as an excuse. Hey, your prison guards or whoever's monitoring these lines are actually betraying my privacy and selling what I say to the tabloids.
And who would ever buy that? Who is sitting there in your judgment, You just came up with an excuse. It's our fault that you decided to break the rule.
That probably doesn't sit well. Now you should have just said you're right, I'm sorry, and so.
Let's sell you exactly what did happen. Yes, folks, look, we thought Eric's was a long day. This one was even longer. An eleven hour. An eleven hour parole board hearing. These things, folks will tell you, usually say two to three hours, and even before Eric's on Thursday, that was the prediction it might be three hours. And again we remind you because of the rules out there. This is a parole board hearing. This isn't an open court hearing.
There's no audio, there's no video, only one pool reporter, and that pool reporter cannot disseminate information until the thing is over. So we sat with zero information for eleven hours waiting to hear what happened. So what happened. Yes, they ultimately denied parole, denied parole for him, but he is eligible for parole again in three years, but there is an administrative review that can take place in a year, which could result then in him getting another parole board hearing,
sooner than that three years could happen. Ultimately, in eighteen months, his brother Eric got the same deal as well. They're going to have these administrative reviews, So why robes the question is, and many of their reasons were the same as Eric's for why they're telling him he can't.
Get out of prison.
A lot of the testimony, I say testimony, but a lot of the questions directed at Lyle throughout the hearing were at the abuse he suffered at the hands of his father. They really went back as they did with Eric and dissected the crime itself, the why, and really trying to measure how sorry, truly sorry each brother was.
Now with Lyle, he actually said something that Eric did not, and there were questions as to whether he learned or maybe he even practiced beforehand, because Eric got hung up when the parole board really went after him as to why he had to or felt like he had to kill his mother. If the abuse they suffered was at the hands of his father, why then did the mother have to die? And Eric really didn't have a good answer.
So Lyle came prepped and look, he had made these accusations when he was being accused initially, but it was never corroborated, and I don't believe it actually ended up in trial but he said this on equivocally. He stated it multiple times. He claimed at yesterday's par board hearing that he was and they were sexually abused by their mother.
He said it happened at the age of thirteen, and so he said he felt like he was consenting and he was embarrassed about it, and that's why he said he never told police about it initially because he felt like he was consenting because of his age.
He even he's I think that surprised some of the folks on the pro board, and he had an entire psychological evaluation in review. The question is, well, why didn't you say this to somebody? Nobody asked and it sounded like something now that I don't know, Why is this coming up now? And what do you have an indication? What exactly was the direct question that was asked that prompted him to give this information.
I don't know, but it seemed as though it came within the question of why did you kill your mother?
And this is but he's been asked why for a long time. That's I mean, that's you've had thirty six years to give this answer, and he gave it yesterday.
Again.
I don't know if I'm missing something. And this was hinted at or in the past, but this was a moment there, it seemed in the parole war here.
And it was a distinctive moment from when his brother Eric was asked the same question. Eric made no mention of being sexually abused. Now Eric is younger than Lyle, so we don't know where Eric stands on this, but Lyle said they both were sexually abused. But he specifically talked about his age and got into specifics that no one had heard before.
Yeah, and he spoke.
It was almost like he was sympathetic to his mother and his answer it sounded like he said she was with a fear that she had in some way as well in things he was trying to understand about her background and her upbringing.
That. So, yeah, this was all he got.
Complex and a mess and a family mess and just a tragedy from start to finish.
It really the darkness and the dark It just was really and he talked. He got really specific about his father's abuse and saying it happened at a very young age. And he said that when it ended, when he told or asked to sleep in his nieces or sorry, his it was his cousin's room, his niece's room, some other female relative's room, because he said, my dad touches me, and so he told a relative. He said, once he
told a relative, it never happened again. But then he said he felt a loss that his dad didn't love him as much, or that somehow he wasn't his special son or his special boy that his father called him. So he felt rejected and all the complexities that come with that. So he really got into a lot of his psychological the impact on him and what he was thinking at the time and how it affected him.
And I think a lot of people can be sympathetic to a certain degree about that. But what the parole board is having to deal with really is what rehabilitation and your past behavior and how likely we have to make a decision to put you back out on the streets, to recommend if the governor is going to put you back out in the streets, you just have to take
what kind of risk is this person? And they keep talking rogues about your if you cannot follow the rules in here, we have like zero faith in you doing it out in society.
And the examples they have leading up and in the days and weeks after their parents' death was nothing but lies and spending like copious amounts of cash after their parents were brutally murdered by them knowing that they had been cut off earlier for whatever reason financially, so they
were struggling financially. So there are all of these like, yes, this all sounds and could be true about this abuse, of course, but it doesn't excuse the way you behaved leading up to and certainly in the days and weeks after your parents' death, and then all of the lies. Lyle was the one who like repeatedly lied to detectives and investigators, And so they said, if you have a history and a pattern of deceit, how can we trust you?
Now?
You know, they has some pretty strong words for the Lyle characteristics of anti social personality traits like deception, minimization, and rule breaking that lie beneath that positive surface. I mean, they spoke of him like a guy like you're going and teaching a class and telling people how to be good citizens in here and then leave them and go back to your cell and continue a pattern of violating rules.
Wasn't there a six year stretch? They said he had a cell phone, yes, the whole like he was breaking rules, not on a one off for this, or that he was a repeat violator.
Yep, of the rules. Yes. And it's interesting because they did say that they found that his remorse was genuine, so they did give him that nod. And there was a different tone in how they talked to Lyle versus how they talked to Eric. It's almost like they wanted to believe him and they were encouraging him to be the person he appears to be. But there was also this acknowledgement that that all could be a mask of deception and they just weren't sure who the real Lyle was.
I mean, the parole commissioner specifically told him, don't ever not have hope. This denial isn't the end. But I thought it was interesting that she said, this is a way for you to spend some time to demonstrate to practice what you preach, who you are and who you want to be. And notably she said, don't be somebody different behind closed doors.
See I don't know.
I mean, if he knows he has a possibility for review in a year, he is what knitting Christmas sweaters for all the staff, right? Now, why wouldn't he he's the best. Obviously he's gonna be on his best behavior. So how if this is a guy that you're already saying has a history of deception and manipulation, and isn't he just gonna go do.
What he has to do?
But oddly it seemed as though they were telling him, Hey, they were dangling a carrot. Just be good for a year, you'll be up for review, and then you can get out in a year and a half. I thought that was interesting.
We just don't want this to be on us.
Kind of that's wild. But still, after all of this, he's been denied, his brother has been denied. But would you believe he still has a chance to get out of prison, even immediately? And the power to do that lies in one man in Sacramento.
Welcome back, everyone to this edition of Amy and TJ, where we are talking about Lyle Menendez. His parole has been denied, despite the Parole Board acknowledging they believed his remorse was genuine. We heard from Lyle directly yesterday, with tears in his eyes, saying, my life has been defined by extreme violence. I wanted to be defined by something else. He said, I am so sorry to everyone and I will be forever sorry. And the commissioner said, we believe you.
Did I see as well? He spoke of he's a big brother like he Yes, he led this and spoke of I hadn't seen that anywhere before. Actually that he almost felt bad as a big brother for letting down.
His little brother.
And he talked about the violence that he saw his brother and dure at the hands of both his mother and his father, and felt very defensive in that regard for not being able to protect him and the family.
Again, I think it was he had a dozen or so folks speaking there for him, family and friends, mostly family. But they have been very supportive of both of these men. Now, I haven't been pushing for them to get out of prison. They put out a statement after Eric was denying, saying they were hopeful for what was going to happen with Lyle.
Obviously it didn't go that way for Lyle, but they spoke again Roams and this is for me still extraordinary, this family that is speaking their family members were murdered and they are pushing for the murderers to be let out of prison. Yes, I know their family members as well, but this has just been extraordinary.
Hey, there was only one family member that I can think of who had publicly been against the brothers ever being released, and that was their mother, Kitty's brother. Well, he passed away earlier this year. So the only dissenter from the Menendez family has passed on. And so it appears that every living member of their families is in
support of them coming home. And one of them older and aging and cancer, Yeah, has cancer and said I want to be able to spend time with my family before I passed, you.
Know, And I just remember this. I wish I could give him credit for a prosecutor. I spoke about this in a previous episode. I just someone who was a federal prosecutor said, in all of my days in this career, I have never been to a parole hearing with a family of the person murdered is pushing for the murderer to get out of prison. Said, never ever have I seen that. I know it's a family connection here, but it's still extraordinary to see how supportive they are and how much they're pushing it.
Is I mean, if you think about it, because people say, oh, yeah, well they're family too, but no, imagine if your brother, if your sister was murdered by their children. That doesn't mean you necessarily are praising or supporting their children. You're probably pretty damn pissed at your niece or your name.
We see this all the time on all the true crime absolutely absolute parents and whatever, they will break down a relationship based on somesh like this.
Especially when you're talking cousins and Anne's there's not it's right, it's a little bit removed, and so yes, if you took away another beloved family member, yes, So it just shows that there's at least some understanding, it appears from the family members as to why, Because if there wasn't a good answer for the why, I don't think there'd
ever be this level of forgiveness or support. It's because they understand the why, and that's been a huge part of the push to have these brothers not exonerated, but at least allowed out based on the time they have served for their crime.
We are incredibly proud is what the family says here in their statement. We are incredibly proud of how Eric and Lyle showed up with honesty, accountability, and integrity. We know they are good men. Who have done the work to rehabilitate and are remorseful. We love them unconditionally and will continue to stand by them on the journey ahead. That's man, that's you want a family like that.
Yeah, And they said they're disappointed, but they're also not discouraged.
And they also know they have the options are dwindling, but they still have options because of how this thing works out their ropes. It wasn't just the parole board. They can make a recommendation, but ultimately they are not the ones who would spring them from jail.
Yes, Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, actually has two different ways. He could not approve so Actually, in California, the state law says that the governor has to approve, basically ratify, so to speak, the parole board's decision, or he can disapprove it. He can throw it out and he could set the brothers free, or he could give them paroles so to speak, so he could overturn the
recommendations of this parole board. He could also because the brothers have put in a bid for clemency, so the governor also has the ability to extend clemency to the brothers. However, Most people point to the fact that it appears as if Newsom will be running for president. Oh, I don't think that's and that might not bode well for him.
It certainly could be used against him. If we want a president who's tough on crime, who's tough for us, for America on national security, you really want that person to have been someone who overturned or went against a parole board's recommendation and let two double murderers out. So a lot of people say, because of his presidential aspirations, it's highly unlikely he's going to do either of those
two things. So the other opportunity, with the other chances their brothers have of getting out, is a new trial.
And they have made that request. Is that I don't know the status of it. I don't know when they are going to hear about their conviction being reviewed.
This is based on the new evidence. There is somebody out there who was with a boy band who Manuda Yes, who said that they were abused by the Menendez brother's father.
So that's some of the new evidence. And then there's this letter that Lyle wrote to his cousin before the murders happened about being sexually abused, so there is documentation about the abuse and given their ages, so that is part of the reason this new information, this new evidence that could be that is the determining factress to whether or not they would get a new trial.
And that's why I just don't know the timeline on that one. As far as Gavin Newsom goes, I think what the pro war has decided, I think this part of it is done.
Yeah, there's one hundred and twenty days. I think he has to make a decision on whether or not he approves it or disapproves.
It's one of the Iowa caucuses.
I knew you were kidding, but yes, this has been a heck of a journey and it's not over.
It is not by any.
Stretch, So so quickly appreciate you as always hanging with us and trusting us to give you updates about all that's going on and Robes.
Good to have you back, dere Letting.
Great to be back again. Thanks everyone for listening. We hope you have a great rest of your weekend.