Presidential Advisor: “I Directly Handled UFO Material” (Ft. Harald Malmgren)

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Not not for any of us to understand the world and how the world works.

It's October of 1962, the heart of the Cold War. Images from an American U-2 revealed that the Soviet Union had secretly begun building missile bases in Cuba, just 90 miles off the coast of Florida. Strategic Air Command was placed in DEF CON 2, the only time that's ever happened in the history of the United States. Khrushchev and Kennedy both had top military strategists pushing them to draw first blood.

We are asking tonight that an emergency meeting of the Security Council be convoked without delay.

Okay.

Curtis Lemay, head of the strategic air command of the Air Force, wanted to deal a death blow to the Soviets. Amidst this tense backdrop, Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara called one of his top aides, a 27-year-old Wiz kid named Harold Maumgren, into the situation.

Listen, don't tell them what you think should happen. Ask them a lot of questions. Your job is to slow them down, reduce the heat in the room, and give us time to work something else.

Miraculously, the Hail Mary worked. Harold, the youngest man in the situation room, ran circles around one of the most aggressive four star generals in American history. And if I remember correctly, you kind of rhetorically back them into a corner. where you say what would be your prime target first.

Yeah, I said it's madness. If you hit Moscow, there's no one to talk to.

And then that's at that point, right, LeMay storms out.

No, he he literally got up, you know, slammed his papers down and said I can't I'm not going I'm not I I refuse to run with this.

Malmgrim went on to become a top presidential advisor for JFK, LBJ, Nixon, and Ford. And the fact that he neutralized LeMay and saved the world is the least interesting thing. You've been dropping bombs on the internet, saying some amazing things.

JFK, Bully knew all about UFOs long before he became president.

Harold had been tweeting things that, if taken at all seriously, alongside his credentials and background, would wholesale overturn your worldview. So you're looking at like materi anomalous material.

Debris.

This interview changed my life forever and will hopefully do the same for you. In it, Harold admits to directly handling UFO material that fell out of the plume of a Marshall Islands nuclear test. This is world history. It's the first time anybody of this caliber has ever admitted to handling UFO material directly. What did it feel like?

feel anything we're

Briefed on other world technologies by Deputy Director of Plans for the CIA and Chief Architect of Area 51, Richard Bissell. Malmgrim tells me that Bissell confirmed to him the existence. UFO crash of 1933 in Italy, recently reported on by UFO whistleblower David Grush. He did.

Yeah.

Richard Bissell mentioned the nineteen thirty three Magenta crash. That's amazing. If that's not enough, Maumgrim also implies that he was being tracked by the majestic twelve from a young age.

Your name will All the important books of talents. Not only C.I., but, you know, all the majestic, all these guys.

Yeah. Yeah.

The Majestic 12 is an elite group of military, science, and government advisors governing the UFO issue that were described in document leaks in the 80s and 90s. But this is the first time anybody of this caliber has ever mentioned that. Name. You have uncovered collaboration between Nicola Tesla and Thomas Townsend Brown. What source did you get it, bro?

Going intelligence.

Science fiction novel, The Three Body Problem, which Harold believes may be the best model we have for the UFO story. As far as tech development.

Дальше это.

Harold's daughter Pippa would know that. She was special assistant to present. Bush and on his National Economic Council. It's now public knowledge through Hal Putoff that George W. Bush contemplated UFO disclosure with his national security advisor, Stephen Hadley. As Pippa relayed to me, A lot of these high-level disclosure discussions revolved around one particular book, a Chinese science fiction novel called The Three Body Problems.

Then to fast forward spending time with my own father. Yes. And discovering that he's been involved with this from the earliest days.

Finally, we discuss secret science going on at sensitive Department of Energy sites across the country. Alan Dulles, the director of the CIA, the Italian mob. Secret societies, the JFK assassination, and how all of these might relate to UFOs.

The relationship needs to be uncovered between Angleton's father, Angleton, and the Knights of Malta.

Wow. Do you think that UFOs played any sort of part in JFK's death?

do the right things um yeah I think it was probably the number one issue.

In many ways, Malmgren was sort of a forest gump of global elite politics.

Rimachal loose for me, found me in the crowd, brought me over, and he introduced me.

knew enough to realise that that was a not an action

It became clear to me in the midst of this interview that Harold was part of a much deeper intelligence network that we barely scratched the surface on.

You are now part of a network of people. You've been blessed.

If I had a choice I would have spent weeks with Harold going to the Vast knowledge of UFOs, deep politics, and global power structures. Unfortunately, a day after our interview, we had to rush him to the hospital. That hospital visit ended up lasting a few weeks, culminating in his tragic passing.

But when I was back in Austin, Harold insisted on speaking to me on the phone to follow up. His vitals on the cusp of failure. Just three days before his death, he revealed even more to me. Things that will make you further question your reality.

If you ask me... Did I have a purpose?

In this final courageous interview, Harold Malmgren transcends his earthly oaths and adheres to a higher godly principle in one final act of service to humanity. One that may end up being just as consequential as saving the Earth from nuclear catastrophe. Without further ado, please welcome this week's American Alchemist. May he rest in peace. Presidential advisor and international peacekeeper, the Honorable Harold Malmgren.

Harold, it's Jesse.

Oh hi, how are you?

Good man. I'm how are you? Is the more important question. You scared me last week.

I'm having Who I am. How I have to live. Oh, I didn't know that.

Well I I'm flanked by greatness and and and just honored to be here. Uh I'm here with Dr. Harold Malmgram who was a presidential advisor to four different presidents. uh JFK, LBJ, Nixon, and Ford, among various other amazing accolades, you helped stop uh uh a couple of global cr crises, and we're gonna get into that. Um, but I think for the purposes of this conversation, you've been uh dropping bombs on the internet and really uh saying some amazing things.

Thank you so much for having me.

Absolutely.

Well I'm I'm honored because I've watched your work. Um with several people. And you you've done a c an amazing job. The m the most one stuck in my mind is your interview with Matthew Pines. What

That that means so much. It Matthew Pines makes it easy. He's w one of the smartest people I've met and has a really interdisciplinary understanding. He can go from physics

I'm not a practicing physicist, it's not my job. But I'm trying to like familiarize myself with Garrett Lisi's stuff, with Sabina's stuff, Wolfram.

But he can also understand the minutiae of Washington and how it works.

That's why I like him.

Yeah.

He's unusual.

He is very unusual. Um so you ended up uh known as one of Robert McNamara's whiz kids, quote unquote. And uh just this kind of child prodigy, but you grew up on the other side of the tracks and so uh I'd love to hear just a little bit about your childhood.

Well, I was born up born in in the middle of the um Great Depression. and um my mother and father were immigrants from Sweden We lived right by Narragansett Bay, m just off the Atlantic. When I was just turning seven, my mother said, Well, this is the day you have to start working. So when you come home from school I must get out of the water and bring home dinner. Because we were on rationing at that time, meat rationing. So I learned to use a boat.

This was Carl Compton, who was the sitting president of MIT, which allowed him uh he had the power to offer you a full Yeah.

So We ended up friendly. He said you've talked about things that are the very frontier of physics. 안녕!

At at thirteen or fourteen.

Yeah, he said, You stunned me because you brought up what is a photon? Why don't we understand it? Why ha why don't we get a picture of it? Uhhuh. We have a picture of everything else, no photon. I said I thought about I didn't know Einstein's dilemma. So I said it's something that operates in interaction with something else, probably another photon, and probably its impulses, and probably there doesn't matter how far apart.

Malmgrim displayed knowledge of physics concepts with Compton that he wasn't supposed to, not only because he was too young to know these concepts, but because they hadn't even been proven experimentally yet. Entangled photons are considered a single system in quantum mechanics, meaning that even when separated by large distances, they instantly affect each other's states, essentially acting as a single unit.

There's a bit of a backstory and part of my job in the interview is just to pull out some of this background that led to my father's extraordinary career. But the key was before you met Carl Compton, you'd written to the Atomic Energy Agency asking for background on nuclear physics. So you'd at that age already read an immense amount.

Can we show some of that correspondence? Do we have the this is amazing. Let's see here, the con the control of atomic energy. So this is what they sent back.

Yeah, not only that, but genetic effects of atomic bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Mm. See, that's really interesting. They were they were really interested in the the genetic stuff. And you have Det Detlev Bronck is written about here. You know, Detlev Bronk was the president of the Rockefeller Foundation, but he was also president of Johns Hopkins, who's rumored to be on this quote unquote majestic twelve and do autopsies on non human intelligence bodies. And so and then you had all these studies going on at the time, like the um uh Cambridge labs where you had the Polaroid.

And again some of these photographs are quite extraordinary. And when I came across them in dad's old files, I'm like, What the heck are these? Wow. And they're from the Atomic Energy Commission and they're photographs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This is Hiroshima credit US Air Force.

This is amazing.

So that's why he knew a lot at that age and Carl Compton starts to register the president of MIT that he's got this kid who's basically holding the paint bucket for his dad and he knows a lot about photons. Uh and so I think that's where this began. It was identified at a very early age.

Yes.

That's someone with a very particular proclivity. Yeah. And then fast forward. Because, you know, I looked at my dad's career I look back and I'm like, how the heck did you end up at age twenty-seven being the joint liaison between the joint sheath And the President of the United States National Security Council under Bob McNamara and J F K just as the Cuban Missile Crisis is beginning. And, you know, Dad has an amazing story to tell about what it was like to be in that room.

That's so amazing.

Which is a story I think you should tell.

Yeah, I can't wait to hear uh but it clearly you had been tracked at a young age. I mean this is a letter that you're receiving from Oak Ridge National Labs. And it's atomic bomb engineering. So that it's clear that they are like, Okay, here's this whiz kid, let's give him a limited information set, see what he can do with it, and maybe have some sort of initiation path. How you almost

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Who is this Carl Compton? Well, he served as the president of MIT from 1930 to 1948. During that time, he also served on Franklin Delano Roosevelt's National Defense Research Council and worked closely with Vannevar Bush on federally funded scientific research. For the promotion of American military supremacy. At MIT, Compton was heavily involved in the famous Rad Lab and its development of American radar.

I was particularly looking for something which would uh dis be evidence of a secret weapon which was uh a matter of concern to the United States.

But I digress. For the purposes of this conversation with Harold, Carl Compton pops up in UFO history twice. First, you have Robert Sarbacher, former head of Washington National Labs, also one of America's premier nuclear scientists. Sarbacher is famously on record saying that UFO secrecy is classified at two levels higher than the hydrogen.

Finally, when government transparency researcher John Greenwald used the Freedom of Information Act to retrieve Compton's records, he received a reply back in April of 2014. Quote unquote, records which may have been request were destroyed August 30th, 2006. Why would the FBI destroy a file on an innocent university professor? And why would they have a file on him in the first place?

Well, and he had gone on to work with Tom Shelling, who was father of game theory. Yes. The application to conflict resolution across many different things but nuclear. um and working with many Nobel Prize winners, including Sir John Hicks at Oxford. Um and so I think when Kennedy came in he knew some of the Nobel Prize winners and he asked them, Who's your brightest kid? Mm-hmm and dad's name just kept showing up on the list.

It's fascinating. So then okay, what what happens that so you're recognized by Carl Compton, you have this correspondence with the Atomic Energy Commission. How do you end up from that situation to the situation room during the Cuban Missile Crisis as you know the youngest person in the room.

Yeah, I'm still in fine recent structures. And yeah, I was still a huge athlete and a really top student. I was raised uh first along with another person who later became chief dresses of the Arkansas State Supreme Court. I had moved from physics to economics because I thought I have my parents need help and I get older and I need to do something that makes money. economic sounds like money. Mm mm mm. So I got a grant from Yale to go to go somewhere and I wanted to go to Oxford and it's a dream.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

That's a great deal.

He said it's a great he said it's a great deal and I said, Yeah but And m my brain was somewhat clevered by this cure.

Yeah.

But um also our school offered me they said just come here but we'll take care of you. You can do your PhD here. And so I did that. Marry that girl was

Oh.

And um you know, there's always an element of frailty. in unexpected ways, in particular my males. But at often Sir John Hook s decided, well, he and his wife invited me to dinner. And she explained she was a public finance expert. So she decided to explain to me. Her husband felt I was an original thinker and that they only come alone once every twenty five, thirty, forty years. She said that year You you went deep into mathematical economics.

Decline and fall of a realm. Yeah.

So I'm coming back. He said, What have you learned? I said, well I I only got to something, chapter and whatever, and he said, that's not bad. Uh the reason I wanted you to read that as a dead run is because you have to know how it was written. Gibbons didn't do it brick by brick. He wrote it at a dead run. From his mind And said, you gotta learn to do that. You have plenty to say, you know how to say it. So write it that way.

So you would be more on the Austrian school side. I I am too. I'm far inferior. I can't make sense.

I'm totally convinced that China will collapse because of overcentralization. Anyway, um by the way, in the nineteen eighties I was in China for some kind of a SRI. Million.

Stanford Research Institute? Yeah.

And they invited me along. And the scene of Chinese, very interesting. This is years later. Saying, Can we have dinner with you alone? No, okay. Why not? Mm, so three of the most senior economic officials, we had a long doing. We know about your work on centralization. How do you know about oh we had your thesis translated? And um we talked to him. And we had an argument. I said over centralization will n will bring you destruction. It's an impossible Too big to manage.

Wow.

He was on leave uh leased from him.

Uh in Ithaca, New York. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah, that was an adventure.

Uh

And he was something impressive. I mean I all these fortunate developments happen in my life. Anyway.

By the way, these also became clues for me later. Uhhuh. 'Cause I realised Nabokov was um uh said to be a CIA asset. Really? And was used to help use literature as a means of propaganda and you know, there are lots of stories about the intelligence agencies using Doctor Javago as uh as a medium for fomenting

A strict quarantine on all offensive military equipment under shipment to Cuba is being initiated.

I was a point in the air zone between Mack and Murray And we should Bundy and the and the FK. I mean pretty, very good job.

McNamara is Secretary of Defense at the time.

And um so alright, I'm there and I'm wondering what I'm gonna work on and suddenly the human missile crisis unfolds. Um Bob wants you to work directly with a smaller group. In the war room. I said what's the war room? It's where the generals meet and decide yo no yo.'Cause they have the weapons, meaning my house doesn't have

So this is Bob McNaman, yeah. He wants you to meet.

He wanted me to m be there in that room as his guide. They would know him as And um I said, Yeah, then that can be eager to hear from this young sport. He said, Don't Tell them what you think should happen. Ask them a lot of questions. Mhm. Your job is to slow them down. reduce the heat in the room. Get everybody can go calm. And um If you just keep asking questions and make them think. You'd be surprised how far that goes. and advise us time. It takes the pressure off from them.

Yeah, it's like literally Mary, take the kids and get out of here. Right. Like we're about to be at the end. And and this is the bit, Dad, where it's so important that it's Curtis LeMay who wants to drop

So maybe Doctor Strangelove wasn't so

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean all the thinking of the last Ever since the bomb was dropped in in Japan. All the thinking is about mutually assured destruction. If we go, we both get obliterated. Does this make any sense to any of us in this room? There must be some degree of action less than that. And they all said, Yeah, well, we haven't explored that. I said, Yeah, we don't have any calibration, any idea of small steps.

His n his nickname is Bombs Away the Man.

Well and yeah, I have no I have no idea what a miserable mean arrogant guy this was. I mean, I just there was nothing written a lot about him other than he was um Super aggressive.

Is he chief of staff of the Air Force at this time?

So take air command.

Yeah.

Okay.

And it's important that you mention how he keeps says, My guys, we keep setting them up to the point of no return.

Yeah, that's what I meant to say. That the um he said in the room. All these other generals and admirals. You can't imagine the morale problem I have. Every day I send my boys out there. They reach the point of no return where th they if they keep going they'll run out of fuel. And he said I have to order them back. He said, The morale is really um I'm they're ready.

He's playing with millions of people's lives. To make sure that the morale of his, you know, units are are are okay. I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair But I do.

You say no more.

Depending on the brakes.

That's He said that and everyone in the room looked down at their lap. They didn't want to eyeball it You know. I didn't hear that.

Yeah. It's like if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all. I mean he's also for the context for the audience, he was in charge of the five hundred and ninth atomic bomber squadron in Roswell, New Mexico that was responsible for the bombings in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Well h and he was in in charge of all the fire bombing in in Germany.

Yeah.

I mean yeah, his idea of enemy is obliterate them. Anyway I I didn't know what I was up against, but you know, it might have scared me, but it didn't, so I I said, Well, let's all the rest of us, let's contemplate the options. We slowly taught. And then it turned out That we got where the the Russians stopped the the boats. Um at the point of foreign thing. Can we agree? That we should bang off.

But but you also made a a suggestion that if you hit Moscow, there wouldn't be anybody to negotiate with.

Ha ha ha.

And further, if you let it leak to the Russians that you wouldn't hit Moscow, maybe they wouldn't hit Washington. And everybody in the room just love that.

And if I remember correctly, you kind of rhetorically back them into a corner where you say, What would be your prime target first? And then they say, Moscow. And then you say, Oh, if it was if it's Moscow then you can't talk to anybody in Moscow. There's nobody to negotiate.

If you're gonna start something and you need to stop, in that system there's only one point of decision. If you hit Moscow, there's no one to talk to.

And then that's at that point, right, LeMay storms out and gets all angry. Is that is that right or something?

Yeah, slam these papers down. I can't I'm not going I'm not I I refuse to run with this. That man is a really maniac. But I have to tell you I did not book a

No, I know you then.

Now, he had, by the way, just before that, raised the um voting level for to DEF CON two. And it was not approved by the President.

Really? Una proved.

I mean we Surprise, but anyway, he may have had that power.

Interesting.

Anyway, I mean but I look back and think, Jesus, you know, I I stood in the way of this Historic bigger bum is away.

Yeah.

I mean h he could have got stood up and tried to beat me up. I mean he's that kind of person. When he stood him down what a relief to the whole group. Um but it was the first in a series of evident clashes between him and JFK. If i it was personal. Somehow it all radiated. This is not about Russians only. Something something was going on in his head. We learned later about some of the other things, but...

Well and bo and you had the the Bay of Pigs before that as well. Which is this crucial kind of juncture where uh you know, I think actually Eisenhower kind of left his his second term slightly skeptical of Dulles. I think initially he was willing to kind of go along with his plans. And J F K didn't quite know what to think and after the Bay of Pigs it was really this clear rupture where you had the kind of uh CIA sort of, you know, quote unquote deep state.

President Singh is

The CIA into a thousand pieces.

Is that roughly right?

That's right. So this this was the prelude. this that period to um what became a flash over how do we respond when we have an excuse. And who's the main said, At least let me send my bombers after some strategic facilities of the Russians. But how do you sort out? for the Russians point of view. Bombers coming at us. We don't know their trajectory. We can't study that. It's not like a missile, you know once it's fire, you know where it's going. So high risk.

Well that seems it's such an act of genius to him uh on his part to to call you in as a twenty seven year old to stagnate these sort of more aggressive, you know, guys l like Curtis LeMay and you think of the way Robert McNamara is depicted in like, you know, Errol Morris's Fog of War just as an example and he's seen as this sort of warmonger and this, you know, cuts completely against that.

Back to my D.

You mean to say? Then instead of killing a hundred thousand burning to death a hundred thousand Japanese civilians in that one night we should have burned to death a lesser number or none, and then had our soldiers cross the beaches in Tokyo and been slaughtered in the tens of thousands? Is that what you're proposing?

No, his instruction. He said, These guys are coming in that room, several of them have sidearms that are fully loaded with the safety orb. Um how to young.

Uh.

I'm saying your fast isn't lower than temperature.

Yeah, well.

And see if you can't stretch it out. Give us time to work something out.

What foresight on his part.

Johnston Island was the center of launch and experimental activity for the 1962 High Altitude Weapon Effect.

Testing termed operation.

Some fresh bowl.

Running from April to October of 1962, Operation Dominic was a classified American program conducting 31 nuclear test explosions in the Marshall Islands. These tests were designed to study the effects of nuclear detonations in high altitudes, in space and near space.

These tests, Starfish Prime, created an electromagnetic pulse that extended over 1400 kilometers, knocked out streetlights. triggered burglar alarms and caused electrical surges in nearby Hawaii. It also produced an artificial aurora visible from Hawaii to New Zealand, and it even created a man-made radiation belt similar to the Van Allen belt. That destroyed multiple satellites.

Well, I arrived in Washington summer of 62. In 61, there were two high-level tests. an incoming missile and a an interceptor fired up to see if they could stop it. Those two tests failed. Some of sixty two I arrived and First I'm in the middle of this missile prices. And then before it's barely over Hell, would you set up a small group and we we'll give you the people? to devise the outlines of an anti missile system so that we can start anticipating for the future.

While American offensive nuclear capabilities were ahead of the Still didn't have precise ways of defending against a nuclear attack. But there were some novel ideas in missile defense at the time. In 1961, the Rand Corporation wrote a report. Some new considerations concerning the nuclear test ban, which highlighted the susceptibility of the US ICBM re-entry vehicles to high-energy X-rays.

To say this is a piece of steel and it's in outer space if you impinge high energy X-rays on this side, so what that does is blows chunks off the inside at hypersonic speeds.

This novel insight made its way into the Operation Dominic Marshall Islands Here's where it gets interesting. These X-ray emissions could also take out surrounding UFOs.

So just you got that going. Test number three in that series in uh October was a success. If I remember the days it was while we were busy with Cuba.

Yeah, it was during the Cuban Missile Crisis, actually the Bluegill Triple Prime. So it was October of nineteen sixty two, right?

So I got a report. Because I'm in charge of this new project. The same report that went to JFK. Now you can assume I mean J F K it was read by McGeorge Bundy, that's his job. And I knew if it it must have been read by McKimmer and and John McNaughton that they will cancel them if they're all interactive. And um almost certainly LBJ because vice president. Anyway, um Lo and behold, they laughed down. And I said, wait a minute, I'm puzzled here.

But by the way, can I just interject?'Cause for me and I'm I kinda got my dad a little up to speed on the whole Why is Congress pursuing non-human intelligence? Why are they passing whistleblower legislation? Um and so when we started talking about this and So he says there's this orb around the missile. Yeah. And I'm like, so didn't you think that was weird? And I realized that actually

That's what you would call them, tag alongs. So that it's so casual that you just call them tagalons.

I think they were so inured to seeing them, they were like, yeah, tag a lot.

The UFO nuclear connection was a complete open secret. Top military brass in the fifties and sixties. In a 1952 Look magazine article titled The Hunt for the Flying Saucers. Chief UFO investigator for the Air Force, Captain Edward J. Ruppelt, is quoted saying that many of the sightings reported had originated at one atomic weapons-related site or another, all around the country. In fact, while the Operation Dominic tests were going on in 1962, an AVCO Mark IV re entry vehicle.

At the 4 minute and 40 second mark in the video, an object appears to phase itself into existence alongside the re-entry vehicle, which is traveling at 20,000 feet per second, or Mach 18. The official US Air Force NASA postflight report even states that the object's quote unquote origin or identification could not be determined.

reaction to this blast of X-ray. Um at that moment the report said This appeared to knock down this N device, they call it. I said, the tiger. And um so I got really I didn't reactu with with shock. I I th thought Let's find out what that was. And um was there a recovery? Yes, the navy had recovered but but fell. Tell me about it. Oh we can't do that. You have need to know about the incoming missile and the test, but not about the tag alarm.

And just to be clear, you've got all the Q clearances, right? Not some of them. You've got all the Q clearances.

Yeah, well including it.

They say no, you don't need to know.

Right.

I had a blanket besides top seekers and all that stuff. I had a presidential experience for the highest level stuff that comes of the president. I mean I hadn't been given everything but especially that they gave me a blanket Q clearance, cubes for any nu nuclear weapons. Why was that separate? Because that was managed by the Atomic Energy Commission. There's n that was in law separate.

But it's it's so interesting'cause you hear that UFO secrecy was sort of uh bound up in atomic secrecy and the Atomic Energy Commission.

that were involved in Manhattan. We're overlaying the same ecosystem of secrecy and some of the same to protect stuff that they were protecting our nuclear secret.

And you don't even have access to the UFO stuff with all of your cue parents. Two KC-135 aircrafts in proximity of the test were gathering footage. Australia analyst Jeffrey Krukshank. These two pieces of footage, kettle one and kettle two.

A bright fiery object. Yeah.

You believe

із

Some kind of craft.

Just like the one that was following uh the Atlas eight F.

But

This time it was a real war.

You can see clearly from the Kettle 1 footage of the nuclear blast, an unidentified flying object tumble out of the nuclear fireball. The official report written about this test at the time was written by the Flight Dynamics Laboratory at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. The report tries to explain the presence of this second thermal source in the footage.

That's it.

Well known animosity between Los Alamos and Lawrence Livermore Labs. Lawrence Livermore ran one aircraft, Los Alamos ran the other. The reason why the Kettle One footage declassified and Kettle Two wasn't was simply

Субтитры создавал DimaTorzok

personal uh difference in should remain classified and what shouldn't.

21st, 2023, when Jeffrey Krukshank sent a mandatory Review request to the Department of Energy asking them to be able to do that. Kettle II footage which had been sanitized. The footage. They were literally saying they lost the footage of one of their most important high altitude nuclear. And maybe all you need to know is that Bluegill Triple Prime Any portion of the released video is

Classified.

And tellingly, look at what happened when a Freedom of Information Act was not. UAV, AAV, any acronym used by the Atomic Energy Commission at the time for unidentified flying objects. The National Nuclear Security Administration responded. The letter back in June of 2022 reads: It was determined that an additional review The subject matter expert with jurisdiction regarding responsive records was required.

First of all, who are the subject matter experts on UFOs? Second of all, this seems like a tacit admission that there are responsive records that apply to this Freedom of Information Act request that specifically ask for information on UFOs. Finally, we have an eyewitness of the Bluegill Triple Prime Test who is alive today. A former Navy sailor named David Noble Whitecrow. He's spoken to UFO investigator Richard Dolan, and look at what he told Dolan.

witness was a man named David. He was part of what was called Operation Dominic. He was aboard uh A ship called the USS Finch, nineteen miles south southwest of Johnson Island or Johnson Atoll. The date is october twenty sixth, nineteen sixty two. At nine fifty nine AM they launched this missile. Suddenly he hears on the loudspeaker.

Yeah.

the voice of the ship's captain saying, uh everyone below deck, uh other than a few essential personnel And they're preparing for damage control. After fifteen minutes, an officer goes down in there and he selects about a dozen of these guys, including David, and they're they're ordered to look directly forward.

Bow.

So at this point this is a direct quote from Dave.

Song.

was a huge cigar shaped object coming toward us. at 10 degrees and about 15 to 20 degrees off the horizon.

And what about the most senior official present at Operation Bluegill Triple Prime? If you're a head honcho and you see a UFO tumble out of the sky, surely you can't just engage in business as usual. Well, the logs of a nearby Navy ship, the USS Summit County, on 26 October 1961, referred to a SOPA. Or a senior officer present afloat being on board the ship. That officer was General Alfred Starboard, the Joint Task Force Eight commander of Operation Domino.

Our

There were still very important tests to go, but Starbird apparently needed to leave immediately. Maybe because of this successful UFO tag along shootdown.

Well what they said is that your project designation was this you know, anti ballistic mis uh But we didn't anticipate this. Unidentified object that's not part of your designation. So I said, that's bullshit.

Ha ha.

So I said, I need to know what you learned. No, I'm sure in different words that's what came out of the White House to the people running the test who were under the jurisdiction of the Atomic Energy Commission. Under La Lawrence Ghiz, who was in charge of all this stuff. He was head of the Albuquerque Division of the Atomic Energy Commission, but he was running everything at You beside everything that had to do with Los Alamos and high level tests.

And he's randomly Jeff Bezos' maternal grandfather through adoption.

It explains a lot. Bayless talks about in some of his earlier reminiscences. to record it he spent all his summers with his grandfather. Mm.

Interesting. Really? Yes. Oh. Yeah.

Yeah. So he I'm sure he had several summers of space. And look myself there.

And now he's got Blue Origin. It's so funny. It's just another point in the direction that rocketry is not what it seems.

Right. So two things happen. I pressed hard you know, you you have to let me know what took place. Uhhuh. So they said, well for that you have to come down to Los

So you pressed hard with Lawrence Geis and you said I wanna know.

I didn't know it was him that I was talking about.

Okay, but somebody at the Atomic Energy

I said, I need to know, I'm going to decide what I need to know.

Just just to back up, so you go out to Los Alamos, you get briefed, you meet Lawrence Keys, and like literally a couple of weeks later. Suddenly, JFK, LBJ and their teams are hurriedly. Going to Los Alamos. So I asked the question, Dad, how often does a president of the United States go to Los Alamos? So what was so extraordinary that they all suddenly rush out there and this is what then you

I think. It was about the elb the the tang along. That's what they wanted to know about. They weren't all fascinated by the test, they were

By the tag along itself. So what did y when you came out two weeks before them, what did you find? What did they tell you?

He said, I have this letter saying that I can brief you. I said, Thank you. Because I really he said, Well, the test details are controlled by naval intelligence. It was interesting, he said they don't share everything with the Navy Department. They are an autonomous entity. They are most secure than any other intelligence agency.

It's the oldest intelligence agency in the US in the eighteen nineties.

Yeah, but he said just be w be aware. CIA is not on their fully approved list to circulate. So I can talk about that on another occasion, but um Anyway. So I said, Well what what am I here to find out? He said, Well, he reached for some stuff sitting on his desk. These are things that have come down. I'm looking at yeah, sitting here is that round rock, you know.

So you're looking at like materi anomalous material. Yep. Debris. Yeah.

But but debris or images?

The brain.

Wow, that's amazing.

I was so

What did it feel like?

And it uh win because it

What color was it?

What's the color of something in space?

Depends on the light in the room or the light. The camera.

Was it uh was it heavy?

If you had been there without knowing how it was retrieved, would you think that it was at all different than like random rocks or something?

I don't know how it was retrieved. He said, No, this is some of he said I have it on my desk just to you know, as an example. I mean he didn't say it for visitors, but y I mean whatever reason he had it there.

Did it did it was it emitting alpha, beta, gamma radiation, anything like that?

I don't know I don't know if he must have known it was safe. I mean had all this instrumentation around. Anyway, um So I s you know, I just what have we learned? because it does per pertain to designing a missile system, uh what kinds of things can interfere with it? Uh by emulated. We just need to know more. Who else is studying this? Um, we need to know about knowledge in other in other quarters. China or wherever Russia. We feared Russia's science more than China at that time. Anyway.

Do they still live in their own world? Yeah.

That's what everybody says.

There are a few key details of this story that fill in some gaps that Harold relayed to Pippa before he passed.

Yeah.

Malmgum confirmed that the entire Bluegill shootdown was an attempt to down a UFO. Malmrim explicitly told this to Pippa, his daughter, and Jeffrey Krukshank. He also told this to Senate intelligence staffer Kirk McConnell, who I interviewed.

What uh Momgren reports. that he'd been told directly by Bissell is that we downed a UFO that was monitoring, closely monitoring that test, and it tumbled into the ocean and that the Navy picked it up.

So the American military knew they could bait UFOs with nukes and destabilize their flight paths with EMPs. See, EMPs disrupt local magnetic fields. It would even locally disrupt the magnetosphere of the Earth. If you're flying at incredible speeds in a UFO, you probably need to use some form of quantum sensing. This would allow you to use the magnetosphere of the Earth in order to navigate. Birds even do this.

Look okay, so a few months after this series of episodes, Miss Alisis, Los Alamos I'd like to spend some time talking to you. Maybe Friday afternoons after work would be good. I knew who he was. He was deputy director of CIA, and he was in the news a lot because he he had been the one who helps church workers. Developed the U2.

An area fifty one at the time was an atomic testing site. And he thought it'd be a good idea to test the U two basically right next door.

This little I mean I knew he was at the center of all the scientific technology stuff. I didn't know at that time his ill fortune was that he was in charge of the invade Cuba, Bay of Pigs operation too. Anyway, you know, I knew he was somebody of considerable pupe of knowledge and obviously strong enough to run a a big part of the empire of CIA. شكرا Bought a bottle of whiskey out and said that we don't have to drink all of it, this He said, I'm talking to everyone around you.

Hehehe

So then you're almost certainly on a curve where you'll continue to be at that level. So there are things you need to know. And then he went into quite a bit. It was not only about... But we it still was only UFOs at that time. CIA operations worldwide complacency. some times when the president and CIA were not working in in concert. But it happens when you have a big s system like that. It ha develops a life of its own.

What did he say about UFOs and and other world technology and then what did he say about CIA is the global nature of their operation.

it it all but went down simply to they were opposed to anything which threatened their control. we didn't have the U U UAP word yet. They presented forces that were beyond CIA's knowledge or control. And they interfered perhaps with what CIA was doing with private industry. There was a lot of interaction between Lockheed Martin Yeah yeah.

They would show up around specific atomic testing or around specific technology development or

Many types of technology development.

Do you th so it's almost like the UFOs are more it's not just the atomic connection. They're generically attracted to the tip of the spear as far as tech development.

That's at the heart.

Yeah. Which is if you read the three body problem by, you know, this amazing you know s ch uh Chinese science fiction trilogy. Yeah. Uh Yeah, it seems like something like that is almost the case according to Richard Bissell. Wow. Yeah. And so what does he say? So he briefs you on quote unquote other world technologies. That to me belies almost uh human knowledge of these technologies, not just like these things are randomly showing up when we're making advanced technology.

And he said this is real. This one that we don't know. this phenomenon also we don't know No, at that time China was not as threatening to us. as Russia. We always overrated Russia, in my judgment, and we underrated the Chinese obsession. to focus in on something very specific, which was the technology based. So, but anyway, İzlediğiniz için teşekkür ederim. po forces of power in play and that they had influence Altyazı M.K. In many countries, not just Washington.

Well

Why am I not on the front page of the paper, uh, at Ryan Airport or any other airport with a load of dope, with a load of guns?

Did Richard Bissell know what was going on all along? That the Bluegill test was actually always intended to be a directed energy-based UFO shootdown? Well tellingly, Harold told Pippa on his deathbed. And off-air, that the CIA and Atomic Energy Commission got the very idea of shooting down UFOs with directed energy from an extraterrestrial being that survived the Roswell crash in 1947. This being was apparently the sole survivor of that crash.

But Harold goes deeper. He implies that Bissold knows about this other layer of reality, a form of sort of extraterrestrial exopolitics that needed to be managed by elements of the US government for decades. Do you think Richard Bissell sort of uh knew that you were

Yeah.

You were sort of an heir to him and sort of a more like spiritual sense?

I think he was very spiritual and he was looking for someone who was somehow connected.

Connected to what?

Whatever was happening with other worldly forces.

Have you looked have you looked for people like that? Yeah, I'm reading about them all the time.

Yeah, what else did Richard Bissell tell you?

said this didn't start last week. This has been going on He mentioned nine nineteen thirty three in Magenta.

He did.

Yes.

Richard Bissell mentioned the nineteen thirty three magenta crash. That's amazing. Exactly. That is such corroboration because that is a r highly conflicted, you know, account.

Nineteen thirty three was the first recovery in Europe, in uh magenta, Italy.

I fully trust David Grush, but th that's amazing that there's some corroboration from back then.

He mentioned it.

Wow.

Italian government moved it to a Secure uh air base in Italy for the the rest of kind of the fascist regime until nineteen forty-four, nineteen forty-five. And you know, the uh Pope Pius XII back channeled that. So the Vatican was involved. Yeah, and told the Americans what the Italians had, and and we ended up scooping it.

So he said this yeah, he said this did not begin and and the b you need to know the background. How how did it end up that Truman transferred Yeah. That object from Italy. The steps getting there was arranged by But that went back to what Tipp Tipper mentioned

And he said the steps that Alan Dulles helped with the crash retrieval.

And and remember Alan Dulles and so John Foster Dulles and Alan Dulles are twins. Yeah. And John Foster Dulles is running the OSS, the precursor. to US intelligence out of Switzerland. And then I asked, I said, Dad, why was he running it out of Switzerland? Like how the heck does that happen? And he said, Well, everybody knew that He did it deliberately, so that he would be beyond the reach of US law.

Well, let me explain. After all this all these events a few years back, when I was still an official Um in the office of the trade representative. Well, I was I was invited by m you know, Switzerland doesn't have a president. They the leader is revolves around the canton leaders. But whoever was the leader that year the government about several matters and they said we'd like to see the office of Alan Dulles when he lived here.

Yeah.

Now going back to nineteen thirty three the relationship needs to be uncovered between England's father Angleton and the knights of Malta.

Wow.

Because the Knights of Maltus had their long historical connection with the Vatican. And indeed have this special diplomatic status. You know, you can be you can have an international passport for the night if I forget how it what's the it's a something it's a sovereign state. For a handful of people. Yes. But it's all connected with the Balkan.

According to multiple accounts, including UFO whistleblower David Grush, a disc-like object measuring roughly 10 to 12 meters in diameter came down near Magenta in Lombardy, Italy in June of 1933.

nineteen thirty three was the first recovery in Europe.

Under Benito Mussolini's fascist regime, the first time we're not going to be A total media blackout was imposed throughout the Stefani news agency. Telegrams threatened severe penalties for any reporters who deviated from a government-ordered cover story attributing the event to a meteor. Despite the censorship, A special investigative body known as Gabonetto or RS 33 formed to study the craft, with high level figures such as Mussolini.

Wright Patterson Air Force Base, Dayton, Ohio.

Many of the top Nazi scientists as a part of Operation Paperclip that the Allies had exfiltrated also made their way to Wright Patterson to work on the magenta craft. Malta as a sovereign territory. Diplomatic immunity would be the perfect international guardians of UFO secrecy. Initially, when Harold said the Knights of Malta were deeply embedded in the UFO story, I had no idea what to think. It sounded like a plot line from a Dan Brown or Umberto Echo novel.

Does the DOE currently work with

Yeah.

We uh of the security entities around the federal government.

Do you guys work with JSOC?

Yes or no? Okay.

There are Templars at the Vatican.

In the it's the residue of of the or the myth, whatever, like the Templars.

But there are rumors that the Knights of Malta have something to do with the UFO story as well.

Well what I'm saying is yeah, they did because because Angelson was there.

So for context for the audience, James Jesus Angleton was sort of one of the original founders of the CIA. Dulles was sort of his a mentor to him. He was a skull and bones kid and ends up in Italy and he's kind of this eccentric debonaire, interesting guy, who was also really just good at conniving and lying. And so Angleton's father, Hugh Angleton, was involved with the Knights of Mall.

He was a member.

He was a member. And so and then so he's Wow. So he's involved in the Vatican, which makes it more likely that James Jesus Angleton probably had something to do with the retrieval of that UFO, the magenta crash, which was kept at the Vatican. Yeah.

I'm speculating now, but no doubt in my mind about my

You're speculating, but there's so many connections. There's even a guy named John Warner the Fourth, who is the grandson of Paul Mellon and the son of Senator John Warner.

And my grandfather said, Look, you know, we s we were in a facility, a hangar, and we saw, you know, a German flying disc. And I said, you know, oh Is that the one that was cobbled together with six BMW jet engines? And he laughed and he said, No.

Basically implying that it was like this anomalous object. And right there in Czechoslovakia and modern day Poland. is this thing called Kamler Stob, where Hans Kamler, the most ruthless Nazi, was doing the most kind of black world technology projects.

And the Italians, even to this day, um are amongst the most innovative in defense technology in the world.

It's so interest so maybe that either's some inherited technology or something?

Let me say tell you one factory that is not well known in America. When we look at the world, we say the second most important military force is the UK and their and especially the RAF. But they have really dwindled in importance And I didn't know this till recently, but I'm somewhat rather actively connected with the the military world. Uh I have a book coming up with essays on

Thank you.

uh geo security of the last twenty five years is coming up so

Right.

And anyway m no UAP fees in the book. One of the people introducing the book was the from the Italian Air Force. And I said, that's a little bit odd. And the editor said, no. In the in the Europe today, the most important Air Force besides the US is the Italian Air Force.

Really? So may they ha maybe they might be more advanced than meets the eye.

There are more advanced than the rest of them in Europe.

Interesting.

Yeah, this is news to me. But you know

I think of Italian I guess the cars as being fast but unreliable. And that but the pi but wow, the the Air Force.

Yeah.

Well, Northern Italy has world class engineering.

Right.

German level engineering. And they have it in many fields. Um and I always thought it was very interesting that after the Second World War the Germans were prohibited from going into aircraft because the Luftwaffe had been such a threat. And as a result, the Germans specialized in drones. And I got into drone technology about not quite ten years ago. And the Germans are very strong in that.

Um

But because the Italians assumed that this super high tech thing must be German. And that began their dialogue and as they align That became the Axis. Wow. And then again back to George C. Marshall and the team that is. basically cleaning up after the end of World War Two and the recognition that many people have knowledge of very advanced technologies. They must be brought to the United States. And that operation paperclip, period. And again, who's already there?

Italy.

Dat is amazing. Dat is zo fascinating.

There's no proof in that, but there's an interesting line of inquiry.

But there's so much corroborative. Now we have Richard Richard Bissell to add to the the dullest Paul Mellon story, to add to David Grush's recent testimony. So we are building up this, you know, im important uh c corroborative narrative.

I'm just mentioning and passing you know, this walking stick I have It's from an an old shop. It's an old it's the same shop. But I was told it was Paul Mellon's booking stick. No what?

That's so interest what do you uh how'd you end up with that?

Well they live in the same part of Virginia.

Well I but I knew I didn't know Paul Mellon, but I knew all the people around him. Yep. Including um um his wife.

How how

Oh in his his um personal um I would call him ran the fox hunt for him and ran took care of the horses and you know, he had race horses, everything That guy became a close palabine, so I heard all these stories about Paul Mellon. So I didn't meet Paul Mellon, but I knew more about his life than you would imagine, including all his girlfriends.

Oh gosh.

Yeah.

Well,

Um but I have his writing stick.

Oh that's so interesting. That's wild.

He was sent to me as part of my mission, but you know, I I still don't know my purpose.

Okay. Um and so what wha d what do you think the Knights of Malta play some sort of role in UFOs? And what do you think their role is? Uh

Now we're getting to the heart of the residue of that organization that still exists. What form does it take? No I no idea, but they still have the sovereign state identity.

Do you think it goes back to the original Templars?

I don't know.

Okay.

How did they get the sovereign state? The Vatican must have organized it.

They seem to have kind of a lot of top level business leaders and politicians involved in the Knights of Malta.

That's right. So something yes, we it's a it's a secret of society. I mean, there are all these secret societies. So many things. over the years have been attributed to the Council in Foreign Relations.

Yeah.

I was member of the council for I don't know, fifty years. Rwy'n cael ei wneud mewn gwirionedd oherwydd mewn gwirionedd oherwydd mewn gwirionedd oherwydd mewn gwirionedd oherwydd mewn gwirionedd oherwydd mewn gwirionedd. I thought, yeah, you know, I've done my I I paid my dues. But when you get back to the Council Provelations and you dig deeper, well, wait a minute, it wasn't really them, it was some of them.

But there's a Council of Foreign Relations Knights of Malta connection?

No, I would say there's some Membership but no no no connection. Anyway, the custom foreign relations has been diluted and changed since the days of... the Second World War and the Fold War. It's now um much more diverse and much more defensive of who who's ever in power in the White House. I don't know what they're gonna do with Trump. Um, but they have been they've been sort of swept along with Progressive Democrats.

Right. So this is you just brought this in. This is Paul Mellon's walking stick that you ended up with.

I can't verify but that's what I was told.

These are the rumors. What um does it represent anything? It looks looks very unique.

Well, he had a lot of power.

So that was bestowed upon you. Um what else what else did uh did Richard Bissell tell you?

Well I mean I think I've explained In essence, there are a multiplicity of powers in in play at any moment. And around presidents They have certain powers, but they are c constrained by these other powers. And among them the intelligence community is very powerful because it p has found way to fund itself. And to multiply itself. So you can't look at the budget and say that's what it is. It operates businesses legitimate and illegitimate.

So it's sort of this gangly octopus, it's impossible to really capture.

And so the the Russians do this too. And they even do it in overt ways they did with the um

Purgoshin. Wagner Group. Yeah, Purgochi. Yeah, yeah.

I mean they do that's over it, they do it not over. The trainers are everywhere doing all kinds of stuff. Even in Manhattan.

Yeah, yeah.

So when when you weigh actions you have to take into account what you see and what you don't see, the unseen enemies, the I mean I should have been aware of that when I blurted out some of these Comments on UAP's. And I stumbled into controversy.

Uh have have have you gotten any backlash? Because you've been saying some remarkable things on Twitter or X right.

usually get it. So so dad dropped something on Twitter and suddenly my inbox is full, like full. With people saying, you know, your dad is breaking the internet.

Okay, permanent.

But that seems positive. It's mostly positive. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She she calls me from some far away place. Wakes me up in the moon. You see different hours and dang you just b blew up the internet.

I actually I call I said I leave you alone for five minutes.

Great.

Making the interval.

Love it.

I carefully crafted some backing up language that I was not directly. um involved with

UAP research. You said read my words carefully.

Now if you if you read them carefully, I was not sure. I was saying it. I was not directed to look at that. It was I didn't say that I wasn't aware of it.

Yeah.

And I knew that eventually this stuff would come out and say, yeah, I knew about that. But I I used the words to make it look like I was backing away speculation, but I didn't do that. The words didn't suggest I was speculating.

I think this is an issue sometimes with uh people who are high up in government who want to disclose certain things but don't wanna break any sort of relationships they have or oaths they've sworn or clearances they have where you'll hear David Grush or something spec he'll say, This is open source, this is a personal story and he'll have to caveat constantly with that and so if you're an average person you just immediately your your skeptical trigger goes off.

thing to to keep in mind and as in the research I've done too is what you find is a lot of this cast of characters, including James Jesus Angleton, who went on to become the key person at the CIA. They all seem to have been part of General George C. Marshall's team at the end of the Second World War. They're all involved with the Marshall Plan somehow or another, including Kennedy and Forrestal for a period, are part of that.

Well Forestal's uh was supposedly on this majestic twelve. Who knows how much of the majestic twelve is true, but this sort of, you know, elite uh militarian intelligence uh advisory board for Truman and Eisenhower. And then George Marshall also, there's this thing called the Battle of Los Angeles in nineteen forty two where UFO shows up and like flies down the coast. And George Marshall was briefed to that.

Of course, his friend when I came to Washington was an attorney named Tom Farmer. And Tom and I tried to tell us together. But turned out Tom had been general counsel of CIA.

And he'd been at again at the with the guys doing the Marshall Plan.

Well

I was gonna say it turns out he was involved in dr in the Project called Paper Clip. Uhhuh. For picking Germans. And the reason why was he's he was born in Berlin of a father who was a US diplomat, but he spoke German fluently. Mm. It never dawned on me when I f it was my friend that started asking about paperclip, but I learned later he knew everything. He was he was one of the people saying yes for him, no for him, you know.

Do you believe that advanced technology has benefited from retrieved uh unidentified aerial objects? So this would be like the Philip Corso day after Roswell narrative.

The the answer I would have to give is yes in two ways. in one way we have learned that some Types of propulsion, for example. exist that we d d never never envisaged, never conceived. Um the second way Is that they have revealed a higher level of knowledge than anything we have on earth. And we don't control Now we only recently even if where is it coming from? I mean, you know, we have this new telescope looking up where are they? But then we have one revelation by the oceanographer.

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And then David Grash who says talks about is it interdimensional? Yes. There there's suddenly and one sort of wonders like Is this semantics? Like if you ask officially, are there extraterrestrials? The answer is no, because extraterrestrial means off planet. But it doesn't include if it's interdimensional, if it's Ocean based to visit a Are we actually all talking across purposes?

Well it's the reason the all domain anomalous you know research office, which is headed up by Kirkpatrick who has all these sort of you know and we should get into the the atomic ties to the UFO question. He has all you know this whole history in atomic research. He was at Oak Ridge. And he always rests on we have no hard evidence of extraterrestrial life.

admit to or talk about bad things that had happened. He he didn't want to get into a discussion about the Bay of Pigs Um he didn't raise incidents where we have overturned governments He somehow he avoided that stuff. But um I think most of it was about if you work at the leadership level, whether you're a lead leader or a guide to a leader You've got to keep it in play in their minds the conflicting forces.

Yeah.

Um yeah, someone asked me once what's the most effective way to get rid of a m a major enemy? I say you promote them. Give'em something more visible where the ego can be. I did it more than once.

Yeah, yeah. You don't want them licking their winds. You'd rather have them happy and not focused on whatever they were focused on.

I've never been publicly prognicious. But there were times Well, I think Peppa had breakfast with one member of the Congress at one time she told me, Dad I breakfast with him and I asked him, how is it Dad has so much power but he has no enemies? People have power have so many enemies. And he said the only thing he would say is The rumour is none survives. So whether that's true or not, I cultivated that rumor. I told everybody that's the rumor. Don't ask me. I mean by very rare.

Uh.

But I think the key here is It's not so much what did Richard Bissell say directly to Dad, although that has immense value, it's important to capture this for posterity. But it's also an invitation. You are now part of a network of people. It will be known that you've been blessed. Um it will be known not just in our government, it will be known in other governments. It will be known by the Russians. And that network operates for the whole of your life.

There are different sources of information about how communication between JFK and Khrushchev was established. Now, to the average human in the world we in which we live we say we might they speak of the phone but Number one footstrap representative If you were really gonna communicate with the Central Committee, you would use d to bringan the ambassador who had a direct line. So he was dumb. So if he if he didn't serve I think he may have served us, but we don't know. And then just slows.

And the American ambassador was that Walter Stossel or who?

I don't know. Didn't matter. Uhhuh. The only thing that mattered was the brain was number one power. in communication with Moscow.

But but that's the was the official channels. But there seems that there were also unofficial channels And one of them was it seems uh Norman Cullen.

Yeah.

who was against nuclear weapons. and somehow was able to pass letters back and forth that reached Khrushchev.

I'm trying to think back. I haven't talked about this before. My first encounter with Dublin. Uh huh. As I said, he arrived in sixty two, a phenomenon unusual. A member of the Central Committee. And I was attending some months after this Sixty three. um went to one of these Washington galas, you know, the White House Pascour roast of the President or one of those we have those events.

Amen.

This distinguished looking gentleman sat next to me. I'm Hal Malmgren. He said, yes, I know you. I am Ambassador Dublin. I saw all my alarms went off. That's not accidental. He chose to sit there. I'm sure. So I have to be careful. And he just had a friendly way. is well known in Russia long before you're in at these heavy levels of decision making, I said Why is that? He said, You're you are named after your uncle, whose name is identical to mine.

Mm.

Yeah.

Well our system is far more thorough. You should be aware of that than you might imagine. I said, yeah he didn't ask me about what took place, except to say you emerged as someone who was able to talk down the most belligerent American military official. ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n mynd. Um, well, it's like a good chess player. How did you win?

Really?

He just... innocent. I mean, wasn't trying to punch intelligence out of me about anything specific. He was very careful. I said because it's something we don't control. It's very simple. Whatever it is, we feel threatened because we only feel safe when we are in total control. İzlediğiniz için teşekkür ederim. I'm never in total control. There were always i unexpected challenges. I said, yeah, but tell that to somebody in Washington, but do I mean they are not students of history in Washington.

And this is about the UFO subject.

So extraordinary.

Wow.

Mm-hmm.

He proved it. I think he was looking for me to say something. But I was not privy to those.

And there are rumors that JFK wanted to do a joint space program with the Soviets around this stuff. And use the UFO thing as kind of a unifying, you know, rallying cry or something?

Well he wrote it the pri number one reason that's not being misguided by these events that think to think it might be us versus them that this is not Russia or the US. So we we hadn't we need an early warning system Mae'n rhaid i'n rhaid i'n rhaid i'n rhaid i'n rhaid i'n rhaid i'n rhaid How it extended beyond to the other idea. Maybe we should work together. The drop put the swords down and let's come up with a way. develop our futures without being mortal enemies. Switch.

There is this letter that was FOIAD used the Freedom of Information Act to to you know to to get out of the government in 2005, and it's of controversial provenance, so we should caveat that to the audience. But it's a letter from J F K to acting CIA director John McCone after he had fired Dulles and he's basically saying we need to coordinate I need all of the data on quote unquote unknowns in

How do we deconflict?

How do we decomplete?

We create a regime for deconfliction so that we don't inadvertently fire and it's not the Russians or vice versa.

And in the nineteen seventy one SALT Treaty. It's that sort of same language is written in it. It's in there. And so so do do we think that this letter might be real, this two thousand five Fourier letter or

Very likely.

That's amazing. Do do you think that UFOs played any sort of part in J F K's death?

This is pure speculation and to receive But do I think so? I think it was probably the number one issue.

Why do you think that?

because from what I've read Not what I know, because I don't know anything about the actual documents sent by JFK to Kush. But what I've read is that he wanted to talk openly about The UAP phenomenon. And the basis for why don't we stop fighting with each other and join forces with and make peace.

And he also wanted to reduce the nuclear arsenal on both sides. Yes. And that was also a threat and challenge to

Yeah.

The community.

Yeah. And those specifically hated that vis a vis vis China'cause it was like if we didn't have nukes they would outman us.

Yeah, but it was really about numbers.

So you th so so you think maybe in some of the that correspondence it was let's work together on the the non human intelligence or alien issue. It's it's funny. Uh Douglas Caddy, who is the lawyer of Howard Hunt Howard Hunt's this, you know, known CIA longtime spook who shows up in all sorts of you know, he's like the the janitor in Watergate or whatever.

I think JFK fully knew all about UFOs long before he became president.

What gives you conviction in that?

Dziękuję bardzo.

In naval intelligence for a while he learned o most of it from Forrestal. He was in in the intelligence re in the uh and

Foresaw as Secretary of the Navy before becoming Secretary of Defense.

Yeah, and first um fully breaks him and talks about it. And he talks about it. He he was fully briefed by Forestall.

How do we know Forrestall knew about UFOs? Because there tons of rumors he, you know, managed Admiral Byrd who engaged in Operation High Jump, you know, bringing probably like seventy or so ships.

You have to do more research. I my research which tends to be scattered and until recently I haven't tried to organize it. But I found several references To m personal If for him going to Paris all with questions and getting answers.

Interesting. Well, you know, J F K was also extremely interested in astrophysics at Harvard. and was close with Don Menzel, who was this famous UFO debunker but who admitted to J F K that he held some of the deepest, you know, c clearances across the board, CIA, NSA and Navy. And so maybe there's some sort of connection there. Um but did did did you ever speak to JFK about UFOs directly? No.

my interaction with JFK and Bobby was very limited, but I was somehow part of the clan because Sarge Schriber, the brother in law. was the job between. He talks to me all the time. So it's right, but proposed me for I don't know, several different jobs. But I was an accepted inner circle of person. But Bobby and Teddy they were like consumed with events that seemed to be coming at them faster and faster.

Do you think Forrestall's death had anything to do with UFOs? So F Forrestall was sort of pushed out of uh his position as Secretary of Defense. Yeah. And he was w he was sort of betting on George Dewey against Truman.

Through a window didn't seem to be open.

That's right. That was the other thing. Yeah, and it was like his bathrobe was like tied to the I don't the whole thing made no sense. Mm-hmm. So do you think that had anything to do with an interest in UFO subject?

I'm not gonna speculate.

Yeah. And so but so after JFK and all these guys, George McBundy, all all of his top eights are they go to Los Alamos, they're presumably given the same sort of briefing that you got. Do you think he then takes an increased interest in UFOs at all? And what makes you think that?

JFK somehow saw this moment to make world peace. We weren't worried about China at that moment. But why don't we we and the the Soviets just stop fighting, join forces Explain what we know together and deal with this. Mm.

Yeah, and they're also

Somehow in that exchange during the crisis itself, there were communications with Roslav. We don't know every word. Maybe some of it is recorded. Some of it may have been through. Dubrin, who may have used his lines to he had his method of communication that was theoretically couldn't impregnate probably. I seem to establish a a working discussion between two g two guys.

And that's that's a thread that recurs occasionally. Uh actually Gorbachev was being interviewed by Charlie Rose.

Yeah.

And Charlie is saying, you know, w w And he says, Well, one time we're sitting there, you know, Reagan turns to him and he whispers. He says

If the United States

Агрессивно.

by someone from outer space.

Вы пришли бы нам на курс?

Would you help us? I said no doubt about it.

Yeah.

So that's interesting.

Right now in modern times, we are clearly shooting at these things. the week of the Chinese balloon there were three other unidentified objects that the military said they shot down. And so here's just a very profound question. This represents higher intelligence, or even just intelligence, let alone higher intelligence. Is shooting at it the right way to open the conversation? Number one. Number two, generally speaking, you're not supposed to shoot at stuff if you don't know what it is.

Maybe they're sort of way to you know, there's one of my favorite quotes e Eden Phil Potts, it's like the world is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to get sharper. Totally. And there's something about this bi directional, you know, if we ascend to a certain level maybe we can have communion with these things, but It doesn't really make sense for them to show themselves to us until then.

Again, regardless of whether it is real, since we can't identify it, what I find again interesting to observe is the level of fear that exists. and particularly in not official circles in amongst militaries, because of the lack of control. that it must be dangerous. It must be a threat. And you will often hear the discussion of there's this thing in our airspace. And I'm like, what if we're in its airspace? Yeah. What's the definition of airspace in a world where we have a James Webb telescope.

It it really doesn't. Doesn't even make sense from a national security standpoint, which

Especially not for message.

And it doesn't make sense. Yeah, exactly. If you have this over compartmentalization and Cold War secrecy where you have these aerospace prime contractors that were sent to do this so you couldn't use the Freedom of Information Act or you wouldn't have civilian oversight or whatever.

Plausible deniability.

Deniability. And then you have constant compartmentalization. So the left hand's not talking to the right.

I would go a bit further and again Dad and I have talked a lot about this. There's another layer of this problem and that is China, Russia, India, they'd never had what we would call a Cartesian revolution. Meaning in the West, the United States and Europe. After Rene Descartes, the philosopher, basically split apart

If you wanted to study certain kinds of things related to what's called ESP in the United States, you had to hide it very carefully because you were crazy and then the government didn't want you people to thunk they're supporting crazy stuff. But if you wanted to do the work in Russia, go right ahead.

Fine.

Here's your money. Because they're not caught in the religion that says it's not possible.

That's an interesting question. We can't bring our science to it because we have an inhibition. And if China can Is it possible that they will announce this first? And that's part of why I think a lot of this is progressing. There's a fear of what is called catastrophic disclosure. And that China says we have The fastest supercomputers and quantum computers. We have the best artificial intelligence and artificial general intelligence.

Yeah. And I and I hope uh policymakers and whoever's listening to this listens to that and and and we make real changes accordingly.

We're gonna do a uh uh explain that tweet series with you.

The ones that had me going down.

What that

Okay.

I called Curtis LeMay and I said, General I know we have a room at Wright Patterson where you put all his secret stuff. Could I go in there? I've never heard him get mad. But he got madder and hell at me, cussed me out, said, don't ever ask me that question.

You you said on X that you thought Curtis LeMay had some knowledge of the UAP topic. Yeah. Why do you think that?

I never heard him say something about that, but the research that he was into. included the um you know nuclear powered airplane from the the better

Project Orion.

But he was I have to think about it. I have a reason somewhere in the back of my head. It may we're gonna have a break soon, I have to think.

Yeah. He started the Rand Corporation and was was interested in Townsend Browns work as well.

Right, right.

And Rand did write on this subject at the beginning.

They did and um you know who ended up running Rand was the president of Rand for over a two or three decades was Michael Rich, who's Ben Rich's son. Ben Rich is obviously, you know, the the successor to Kelly Johnson at Skunkworks who's responsible for the kind of stealth revolution. Yes, absolutely. You also said uh on X that you have uncovered collaboration between Nicola Tesla and Thomas Townsend Brown.

But I said to you informally I did not get that from any US source.

What source did you get it from?

Foreign intelligence.

Do you think it is a good source? Do you think it's real?

I no reason. Why would somebody tell me that?

Do you know the nature of that collaboration?

The um yeah, because nobody had associated them. Now, as I say, I have a network filled by It's not a network of secrets, it's a network of trusted people. I mean, during a a lot of these recent years I had friends at the national security firm. For the Japanese Prime Minister was some my buddy for years.

I actually dad, we we should say that after you served Kennedy Johnson, Nixon Ford, you were also an advisor to many heads of government. for many European countries. You advised every single Japanese prime minister since Takanaka in nineteen seventy one. So I mean the breadth of the network that he has is it's exceptional. I've never seen anything like it.

Yeah, well, when Nixon went down, Jerry Pord And it's the wine house. The first pool of the day I got summoned And he was there with Bill Seedman. I Bill Seedman the was you know, later he was the head of Resolution Trust and the FDIC and all that. Bill Seedman was a brilliant

Anyway.

He said, Hell, we we've got something you wanna do. I said, You know, I'm probably gonna leave the government soon. Well don't don't hurry. We have a lot of things we have want you to do. But first of all, we want you to arrange with the NSA a new intelligence system. Well what is reported of interest to Jerry Ford um is what he wants and not what the CIA thinks he ought to want. The next morning at six AM, I'm living in Georgetown at the time.

Yeah okay.

And um he said, you're the best client NSA has ever had. Rydyn ni'n ei wneud. Rydyn ni'n ei wneud. Rydyn ni'n ei wneud. Rydyn ni'n ei wneud. Rydyn ni'n ei wneud. Rydyn ni'n ei wneud. And we give it to CIA and then they decide what might be of interest to'em. And they emphasize the love life of most important people.

That sounds like a CIA thing to do or something.

Uh

Just just go for the compramot or something.

Yeah, keep the tension.

I'm told that your your reconfiguration of the intelligence that went that goes into the presidential daily briefing remains. Wow and that the NSA continues to have that input which they did not have before that time.

Well.

I can't even prove that myself, but that's my what I'm done to believe. Um after I after I left government um

Well, real quick, Harold, I do want to stick on the the Townsend Brown Tesla collaboration. So do you do you know anything about the nature of that collaboration?

About Ending rabbelling.

What? And so Tesla stumbled on this stuff as well because they were both working with high voltage electricity.

Yeah, and I th I think I I see I would I really would like to read Saskia's workbooks, but they're all in the hands of the you can't have access.

John Trump, who was an MIT professor, the world's or the country's leading radar expert at the time and Donald Trump's uncle.

Yeah, but he passed them over didn't he to naval intelligence, isn't that right?

I don't know. That's interesting. And that goes towards your theories around this stuff. And I'm pretty sure Townsend Browns stuff was classified by the Navy. Yes. So

Yeah, it had to be because he was working on submarines.

He was. Yeah, and he was part of the Navy up until nineteen forty two when Skunk Work started and then he joined Martin Vega Corporation. But maybe he was still working for the Navy'cause he he showed up two weeks after leaving the Navy. Mm and he sort of left, you know, They said that they dismissed him, but like he had an amazing record. And there's even an FBI file from the time saying he was the country's leading radar expert. So there's something around that story that's very interesting.

It is f fascinating too that the public are clamoring for the release of the JFK files, but still no talk of the Tesla papers. And so what's in there that's of such great importance?

Well Tuss was another guy. He said he spoke he com communicated with aliens in Colorado Springs and people just I think they assume that's the quacky part of his work or whatever. They assume that that's ridiculous or whatever. But he would he said that and call you know. So and then and then Townsend Brown would constantly talk about uh, you know, Space Brothers

Yeah.

Well, it's quite possible that there was communication improvised. Different ways of Israel way to communicate. A short wave radio would be one not so hard to do. Harder is to get in somebody's head telepathically. We especially because we don't grew up thinking that way.

And yet the US government spend a fair amount of time and money on exactly that issue over the years.

Well the t to the extent that they learned anything between that and L S D we'll never know but they they have some knowledge.

Yeah,'cause there this is an interesting kind of question because Stargate, this psychic spy program started by Hal Putoff and Russell Targ. originally most of the guys working on that were part of the technical staff services of the CIA. Mm and it was people like Sidney Gottlieb and a lot of his comrades who were working on this stuff.

And the next time one of our space satellites went over that area we located the plane.

So that's clear, but do you think we've gone farther in their sort of mind control techniques that we have?

Very nicely, but we don't know, do we?

Ja.

Personally. Well I think about always being at some physical point all these interconnectivities from and I keep looking from where's the direction coming from? I mean, I don't feel And in the right.

sensing. On the other hand, when I grew up, my mother was a powerful personality m m m brain. Mean she could read my mind. She said, Why'd you do that? and I go, I don't remember doing that. Yes, you do. Let me see. It was third of January nineteen forty two, or something, you know. And I how she knew that. So she can do it, but I couldn't do that with her. But on the other hand I sometimes feel there's this hand over me that's Then you're left or then you're right.

And now you feel maybe somewhat guided to look into a lot of this, you know, Towns and Brown and UFOs.

I feel guided and why did I hear about that? Because I I showed a deep interest. I ha I I sent a tweet saying why is it I can't see? Tesla's work. Mm-hmm. Why what's so important? Is it mak no, to be honest as a semi-scientist in us the whole life. I wish back The work of Albert Einstein, but his his works are conceptual and theoretic, strong on math. Tesla was very much hands on. But he's learned about electricity, its application. in everything, the movement of electrons.

I agree with that.

Amen.

Well Einstein was never an experimentalist. Tesla was doing real experiments.

He was as I say, he was cerebral. You know, it's all mental conceptual.

Uh to me it's almost like Einstein put a governor on our physical progress in reality. And actually

I agree with that. He he made physics go that way. Whereas Tesla was trying to pull them through the that way.

Yes, and the experimentalists make the most progress and often they're poor theoreticians and they don't actually have the proper frameworks to really understand what they're doing. But they're I mean I think in the case of Tesla, Towns Brown and a bunch of other cases, they're sort of

So this comes up against another issue and and you and I were talking with Eric Weinstein the other day about this, which is Did we create a kind of invisible glass or perspex wall? and many technologies, particularly in the nuclear space, were placed on the other side. And so you could only study them or get involved with them if you had a classified status.

We one of the things we argued in our meeting with the White House um on AI policy was, you know, look there are gonna be there are going to be issues that come from AI, but let's they should be regulated. The regulation should happen at the application level, not at the technology level.

Let me argue.

with me when I said that. Well so yes. So so so Ben basically said, look, it doesn't make sense because to regulate AI at the technology level you're regulating math and of course we're not gonna do that. Like that doesn't make any sense. And And you'll recall that what they said was, no, actually we can classify math. We can classify math. And literally this was this is verbatim. This is verbatim. This is this is uh we we did we we cla we classified whole entire areas of physics.

Physics, yeah.

And they're like, wait, what?

Like what? Yeah, like physics' supposed to be open source.

And so you start to wonder, is Eric Weinstein right that physics went down a certain road because there was a wall?

Yes.

And now the weight of new innovations is crushing that wall.

Well that brings uh you know another explain that tweet series. So we have uh uh Harold, you you wrote questions appearing regarding successor to AEC. AEC is the Atomic Energy Commission. Department of Energy now oversees all national labs, including nuke research and security. National labs also include advanced research on other potential security threats.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Let me give you an example. I became really close friends with Howard Senator Howard Baker. I mean he would have made a great president. But anyway I worked with him. Talk to him a lot, we became friends. wife of that time down at his country house several times. And um he said one day, Why don't you rub to Earth Ridge? And spent some time with them. And I said, Oh, I didn't know you were attached with them, I thought you were attached attached with Tel Tennessee Valley.

Do you believe'cause we're talking about Bell Labs, that's part of this narrative of this guy Philip J. Corso, who was working in the army on what he claims to be the foreign material exploitation death. He says that as part of that role, basically crash materials from Roswell were given to him to dole out to private industry and mainly it was given to Bell Labs, he says that Kevlar, lasers, and transistors were all derivative of this alien technology.

And let me interject something that keeps coming up in conversation about this issue is I hear a lot of pipa. Look for the technologies where there's no on ramp. I go, what do you mean on ramp? I mean you can't find the research history that led to it. Those are the interesting ones to pay attention to. They're not saying it's definitely from this particular sort. The ones that come out of nowhere those have interesting stories.

So fascinating. And Harold, do you believe because you're interested in Townsend Brown to begin with, presumably this source gave you this information on Townsend Brown collaborating with Tesla, which If that's true, that is remarkable and needs to be known more broadly. Um do you think that Townsend Brown discovered anti gravity?

I don't know, but somebody... Posted on the internet. The workbooks Thomson from the

He's very excited about it.

That's amazing. Yeah.

Um, somewhere in there, I'm gonna find something.

Ha ha ha ha.

So I can't answer your question right now. Yeah. But I think Tesla anyway was on this track. um the movement of a left trans allowed pe repositioning of just about ever anything.

Mm. What is what exactly does that mean?

Um what's the term?

Interesting. Of elements. Yeah. So that's so interesting because when I go d deep enough on the Townsend Brown stuff with certain scientists, they'll say that it gets into that, the transmutation of elements thing. And that that's actually why the stuff was shut down. Because there are more dangerous uh implications around that than the anti gravity stuff.

Mm-hmm.

Well, look at today again. I'm a bit involved in the world of artificial intelligence. We already are able to create what are called programmable materials. where you can specify the behavior of the material. And use materials as a data transmission mechanism. So suddenly you're dealing with things and capabilities that don't fit traditional parameters. Let's add to that that You know, because of g Google's new um sycamore uh supercomputer and their new willow chip.

This allows you to do it. You devise it in here and make it over there. Mm also. So you can make it anywhere once you have the concept. It's a cookbook.

It's a cookbook, yeah.

Mm.

Okay

We're you're it's the the the JFK administration, you're this young whiz kid and you see this kind of rupture in the administration where uh JFK says he's gonna scout this yeah to the winds. Dulles gets fired, he's kind of licking his wounds at back at the Brown Brothers Harriman, which is this firm that sort of formed the CIA to begin with, and he is plotting Possible revenge against JFK?

Well they they uh uh say they are going to release all those patriots.

That's right.

So we'll see. What what does all those papers mean? I mean like one version or t or all the versions.

What do you have you ever met a guy named Danny Sheehan by any chance?

Um Pepper knows him.

So d what do you think of'cause you actually you tweeted this was the first time I I was so like I was like, Wow, I'm on Harold's radar, this is amazing. You tweeted You know, Jesse from American Alchemy just went over a lot of the history around the JFK assassination with Danny Sheehan. And so I felt like that was maybe somewhat of an endorsement of the Danny Sheehan narrative of what happened.

Pepper knows him. Heaven knows I'm even better now. I'm about to know him, it seems.

Nice. Do what do you do you think so his narrative is that Nixon, who is head of the fifty-four twelve committee under Eisenhower along with being his VP, He was working with Howard Hughes to create this quote unquote S-Force, which was this kind of elite uh kind of sleeper cell unit, and they were going to take out uh Shaguevara and Castro.

And

that ends up not happening. The Bay of Pigs occurs and, you know, Eisenhower leaves and and and JFK comes in and they sort of, you know, g move into the roll get rolled into these other special ops programs, mongoose and foxtrot. And then once JFK fires Dulles, Dulles is kind of licking his wounds at the Brown Brothers Harriman and he recommissions this S force, which is full of these Cuban exiles who've been militarized originally to take out Shaguevara and Castro.

There are quite a few stories. When I was six years old, my father moved us to a First to Providence, Rhode Island and then to a community a little further along Narragansett Bay. And suddenly I found myself in a community which was totally dominated by the s the Sicilian mafia. In fact most of Rhode Island was

Interesting.

And the dominant mafia figure for Boston was The overseer was Providence. Um I grew up in this environment where in school if one kid, one male got to be a bully out of nowhere around near closing time for school A couple of guys would be guys would come in and grab him, take him out. Beat the shit out of him. And then they told us the next day he won't believe anymore. And so I later on began to ask the police, how does it work here? They said No disorganization. No disorganization.

We'll let the audience interpret that analogy as in answer to the JFK question.

But when I met Chris Hooder had been governor of Massachusetts. before he he he'd been in Congress and Governor Master before he became Secretary of State. So I asked him one day, I said, How did you ever do that? I said, You're a straight shooter. Why did you ever take that job? As Governor of Massachusetts. He said, What do you mean? I said, The state of Massachusetts without running Boston. You can't run Boston without the mafia.

And he was independently wealthy as well. So he couldn't be bought.

They can't touch me.

Uh huh.

So I thought I asked him, you want to spare me a little money?

Uh.

But I think it's so interesting. How did the Prime Minister of Italy know? And the answer must be that because you grew up in that community They knew your dad. Wow.

Yeah.

He said, I'm actually going across the river. Um Archbishop Martinkus, the head of the bank and bank. Wow. But you two please go with I've already ranged the cars outside. They'll drive you over, you won't get stopped. You're coming from me to see the Archbishop. We were over there watching this former Archbishop of Chicago. Big guy, tall in his black robe. Carbor boots. leaning back, smoking a big fat Cuban cigar. He started up the same way.

the Italian government and the Vatican were tied into they had mob ties in the US. Totally. And then that and that that connectivity allowed them to understand who you were to begin with.

question.

That's amazing. Do you think there's like a deeper layer to politics that people are unaware of? But you know, I mean even outside of the talks of like a quote unquote deep state or or or or you know, uh uh unelected bureaucrats running the government, like is there something even deeper at at play that's sort of transnational?

Yeah, man.

I'm saying.

I don't realize. Right now.

You could call Putin right now, this minute. Really? You have it you you have a direct line to him right now?

You know, I told you the story of Rain. Say about

And they were trying to establish a back channel and Obama shut down the back channel that

We've probably never needed this back channel more than we do today. Harold understood Putin's psychology, and with tensions between the US, Russia, and China running high. Harold's deep expertise on nuclear game theory and his former close friendship with conflict escalation expert Herman Kahn would be eminently useful.

I I was identified early as the person whose name they were familiar with, the chess player. And um it builds slowly. In nineteen eighty two or something, I was with Kissinger and George Gills and a couple of other people in Moscow. We were invited to watch the ballet. And um we came and we were gonna be seated in the Tsar's box. And Kissinger, as usual, watched ahead of everybody and went to them. of the Tsar. And one of the HB people said, Henry, not tonight.

Ha ha.

You may think. And he may not be yet but he comes from the that bloodline and in honor of him he will sit in that chair tonight. Now, it was intended humiliation of Kirsten.

Yeah, Kissinger must have not been very happy.

I think he melted down, yeah.

I was already at war with Kissinger on other issues. He he really got pissed off. Um trying not to show it, but it was out of proportion. Um, preposterous, you know. Anyway. Yeah, he didn't forget it. I didn't forget it, but I never rubbed it in. As the Soviet system was collapsing, the Russian Republic was... falling together and um Yelsen became the f the first president. Uh at that time, nineteen ninety-two, I was invited to a uh meeting in St. Petersburg.

Israel.

And for a while I worked with the Senate and Senator Abe Ribicov. um, was the the senior Jewish political leader in the American system. Jake Javit is my partner. He's number two. and um the chief executive of Sea Rams in New York is the treasurer. It's a it's a it's a structure. um we give guidance to APAC and other bodies. But this we represent the Jewish community and I I want you to

Uh

So I said, well, I'm taking attention now. We had a laugh about that. And I did act as the intermediary. Uh-huh. In fact I was sent And fully I may have several days of full plail, you know, explanation of the what goes on between Israel and the US in the dark world of intelligence. Startled to see I ate. Who the hell was I? You know, I was operating at the request of the senior political figure in the Jewish community, so nobody was gonna mess with me. Anyway, but the Russians were impressed.

Yeah. You're like Zelig or something. Yeah.

And and then you actually Dine with him one-on-one. Yeah, yeah. You converse with him. Yeah, yeah. Talk about

Uh no.

What you learn from that relationship.

You can find, I wrote at the time of the... The invasion of Ukraine. Um I wrote my impressions of Vladimir Putin.

Сегодня, основываясь на результатах референдума, опираясь на волю народа. Вношу в федеральное собрание. Прошу рассмотреть конституционный закон о принятии в состав России двух новых субъектов. Крым и города Сева.

I used to look up um they um unheard uh I wrote two essays about Putin.

You should feature them on uh just a little link to them because they're very important.

There's so much I w it's like

Because I said I didn't meet Putin by accident. They arranged for me to meet. They did not ask me to write what I did. I wrote what I thought he was up to, what he was reading was. I didn't Criticize him, praise him, all I said was this isn't his m state of mind. Um, he liked th the two essays that I wrote.

Really?

How do I know if you random?

Hmm.

Wow. Wow. So happy to tell what you is there something you believe.

has I've given him counsel to improve his speech in English and he's made leaps and bows.

I would like I'm from me.

Apply to New York, give it a d address to the General Assembly. I called this morning, America, and asked for a seminar in this interview. entirely new figure in the eyes of Americans. Because instead being s some maniacal engineering genius

Продолжение следует...

L see him young people.

Everything but girls. Joining Chef. And uh here his words. And sure enough, suddenly he was everybody's friend. Hmm. When I went to From day out of day. Lyndon Johnson I arrived in October sixty four. I get called over. General Counsel. LBJ wants you to go on a very secret mission. Thank you. To me it's already arranged. I hadn't nobody okay. So he remains you will meet the Japanese Prime Minister, he will be accompanied by Some Japanese named Miyazawa, whose English is perfect.

Who who knows? Okay.

I was in his head. But no one else knows. Don't tell don't tell anyone your agency, don't tell don't visit the American embassy.

Mm-hmm. Hotel Estate Department.

Um, don't tell anyone. You'll find the entry and exit will be handled swiftly. You talk deliver this message. and then get an answer, write it down personally. When you get back If you wanna type it up, it's helpful. But don't address it to the present. Don't say on the envelope eyes only the LBJ because then thirty people wanna see it. his name his personal secretary. She will expect it, she will tell them to give her the envelope if it comes

And this is the beginning of what we now know as voluntary export restraint. And it was a means of keeping the peace between the US and Japan on this super politically sensitive issue. for L B J and the point is that this is often how presidents They don't always use the same thing.

Official channel.

system. They have unappeatable fact.

asked the general counsel, why can't he use secure lines of communication? He said, Yeah, well signal corps has their system. But a lot of people listen to it.

Right.

Said Sigma four doesn't deny CIA access. And then since Sigma four is part of the army, Most of the military knows whatever goes So you can't use that.

Yeah.

Not to mention the Russians and everybody anybody else.

We have all these other I shouldn't You say something, it's just like if you ever send a message to the president saying, I's only the president, it's an automatic imitation

Everybody knows.

Yeah.

Everybody will Before the president sees it, they'll have to see it and write a preparatory comment. I'll give you an example. I was given when uh Nixon came in, it was a special commission on the transition, a bunch of papers from Dean Rusk. to um Johnson. Next n you know, next one was coming and was felt he should see it. And there was a bunch of papers with a letter from George Ball to the president pleading with let's downsize this whole Vietnam thing before it blows up in your face.

So

I mean, I knew the daughter because I dated a girl who was best friends with Ninderbirds, so I spent evenings with her and her boyfriend playing cards and uh. So I I learned lots of stuff. My own intelligent system.

I'm telling you.

What?

Wrong.

Uh uh.

Ha ha ha ha.

I'm a human male.

Uh

It it was sometimes beneficial. I have to say over over a lifetime More not beneficial. Anyway, mm-mm. And kind of process. There was no secure man that you sent somebody. You can't do it in a way that's visible.

Well I love your your in my research, your name always pops up next to Malmgrim Inc, which I always found like uh hilariously nondescript and non threatening and sort of, you know, just extremely generic.

Yeah, well I never advertised anything specific.

You seem to just kip getting. Y having these interactions with people kind of on the inside. Mm-hmm. I mean now we're getting into trippier territory and who knows if this is correct, but it's almost like a sort of mental network or a s or a network of serendipity or something where you you look at your interactions with Carl Compton as young as as as you were.

Particularly on nuclear.

Nuclear.

I mean how many Americans have sat down and had dinner with President Putin and understand how what he thinks about nuclear weapons and how they might be used? Which I think is a is a story you should tell a little bit about because it all goes back to the thirteen year old requesting these documents and somehow ends up now I've been told, but Dad won't confirm that he worked on preventing a nuclear crisis on more than one occasion. But you only tell me about one.

Yeah. What?

What's going on? So I w I won't make you go there, but you have met with the leader of Russia on nuclear matters after all of this that we now know.

Wow.

This I think is related to the subject and it's important.

To discuss.

And today, do we have a system for deconflicting the US and Russia if these things show up? And what is happening practically as we speak? We have unidentified objects flying all over the United States.

Yes.

Not just in New Jersey.

No.

over nuclear facilities, over weapons arsenals, but it's happening globally.

And the speculation on the people deepest on the subject, people like Robert Hastings, who wrote an amazing book called UFOs and Nukes, and all of his whistleblowers, almost 170 who work they have queue clearances at these atomic sites. their intuition. You could just you could say

Uh-huh.

host of things as far as why these UFOs show up. You could say they're offensive, which I I just don't believe because they haven't really done too much that's offensive. They've done really nothing.

Well, we shoot it then, but they don't shoot it out.

I don't shit.

Us. So all of their first intuition as to why these UFOs show up around our most sensitive sites is because they're trying to. show us that our ways are are are, you know, too brutal and we're gonna blow ourselves up and to to it's kind of make us think about higher things. And so I I don't know if you guys think that but

I I think that I think that's what it's all about. If we get too serious with nuclear explosions, we can do lasting damage to the to the shell of the earth. You were plumbing deeper and deeper in to the center.

I mean...

We don't know what happens if you st if you start

Well there's there's an optimum of radiation necessary for evolution to occur.

Awesome.

Because you have, you know, this kind of intersection between the magnetosphere of the earth, which actually dictates biological morphology on a pretty fundamental way, and UV radiation, which creates the genetic mutations necessary for natural selection, differential selection. And you are messing with this sort of equilibrium every time there's a nuclear spill. And the c really interesting, crazy part is you ha you have a town in Japan

They may well be It begins with an opening question. Um as I said, I f felt all the way along these unexpected interrelated events. There was a there was a message of the madness somewhere. And my mother telling me, just keep doing what you're doing.

Yeah, the purpose.

And you may not know it until the end. Well m I may be approaching the end. Although my doctors say I'm I will outlast my mother. She lives behind.

What's yes.

Yeah, but my doctors say, No, you have no Physiological problems, no troubles with your knees and hips and all that stuff.

You're you're already lasting longer than most of my interview subjects, so

Uh huh.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

झाल

I came with the office. I said. Why am I again? I asked for it.

¡Salud! Well the food ever.

The first one at my kid. That lane, your name went in.

Mm. And not only CI, but you know, all majestic holy historians. And they all treasure all of them to protect the world. So, you were chosen. And you were brought yeah.

Mm.

Not for any of us to understand the world and how the world works.

Could Harold have been using the moniker Majestic in its counterintelligence context?

Absolutely.

But he used the word so secondhand, so casually, that he was clearly speaking about some genuine group, in my opinion. A group probably related to continuity of government and contingency plans. Contingency plans for general catastrophes like nuclear events, not just extraterrestrials. These sorts of committees have gone by many names. 5412, the 303 Committee, the Committee of 40, and they probably involve subcommittees we'll never know the names of.

On our drive to the hospital, with his oxygen hovering at unsafe levels, Harold maintained the cheeriest of attitudes and could not stop telling stories about his past. There was so much he wanted to get off his chest. We discussed the fact that Putin was trying to set up a diplomatic back channel with Harold in 2009, but that Obama shut that prospect down. We talked about Harold helping Shoichiro Toyota set up the Toyota headquarters in Kentucky.

Right as we got to the hospital, we got into Trippier territory. Harold said he was engaged in deep research around the mid-century anti-gravity inventor, Thomas Townsend Brown. We discussed Brown's obsession with time travel, because gravity is linked with time and general relativity. We talked about how Townsend Brown really believed he had found a missing puzzle piece for time travel.

Well, Harold, I I w I want you to take care of yourself, man. I know we've been talking for an hour now and uh Um I I wish I could be with you in person. Um and uh I miss you man and uh Uh I want you to just get better. Uh uh you know. Uh yeah, I I really hope you uh you rest up and you have my number so you can call me at any time if you ever need help with anything. And uh Yeah. Okay.

At my house.

Hehehe

Under the pseudonym Chase Brandon, a CIA agent turned Hollywood liaison, wrote a book in 2012. The book discusses a celestial object that telepathically communicates with its recipients. The object also relays critical information about future timelines.

The common trope in the book is that Chalmers had a purpose. It was a deeply installed, driven purpose, even if it was subconscious. The first page of this book quotes Francis Bacon Truth is so hard to tell, it sometimes needs fiction to make it plausible.

When Harold called me again prior to his passing, I thought I'd bring up time travel one last time. Harold, do you think your life is connected with time travel in any way?

I have to worry about this.

Yeah.

Nothing else explains When I go into that MIT proposal, I didn't have the slightest inhibition. I I was told as if I knew something. I don't know why I knew it. I know it. I've got another challenge at that time. Have you asked me? Did I have a purpose? Hmm. So many verses. You have to understand. It's a sign by yourself. Levels are pervers. You have

Fuck it.