¶ Intro / Opening
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Hello everyone and welcome to the Amon 4 Hour. Here's where we're headed this week.
I don't
I am not afraid. Words of an American pontiff as he clashes over war with an American president. Pope Leo's ally, Chicago Cardinal Supic, joins me with the moral imperative.
comments uh were uh that attack the Pope really are not about attacking one person, but attacking the church itself and its mission.
Then Leadership in war, as a four-star general, Stanley McChrystal, who led US forces in Afghanistan and Iraq, joins me. And with MAGA splitting over this war, Former Congresswoman and Loyalist Marjorie Taylor Green tells me why she has finally lost faith in Trump. Also on the program. Mired in four years of unwinnable war against Ukraine.
How
Russia is now using video games and university professors to recruit students. And from my archive. What war actually looks like for the innocents caught up in it. What I saw in Sudan. And finally, dignity, defiance, and dressing up. What these photos tell us about elderly Ukrainians choosing to look their best under the bombs.
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¶ Pope Leo XIV's Stance on War
Welcome to the programme everyone. I'm Christiana Manpoor in London, where this week the world has watched Aghast as President Trump's spats with allies like British Prime Minister Keystarmer and Italian leader Giorgio Malone have extended into a spiritual sparring with the first American Pope, Leo XIV. The pontiff coming under fire from the American President and Vice President, as he continues to push back against any divine justification for the government.
For the war.
On Iran. Here are some striking comments he made while on a trip to Africa.
Woe to those who manipulate religion in the very name of God for their own military, economic, or political gain. dragging that which is sacred into darkness and filth. Billions of dollars are spent on killing, on devastation. The world is being ravaged by a handful of tyrants.
Well, that's clear. Earlier this week, the president labelled him soft on crime, and staunch Catholic J. D. Vance tried to warn the Holy Father off speaking about religion.
I think it's very, very important for the Pope to be careful when he talks about matters of theology.
Now this was just part of a White House crisis of faith this week. There was, of course, that AI Truth social post where the president portrayed himself as Jesus, which drew major blowback, perhaps especially from allies. Trump swiftly deleted the post and claimed this image of him in robes, surrounded by angels, and light emanating from his hands, was presenting himself as a healer. Okay.
This week, one of the Catholic Church's most senior figures and Pope Leo's staunch ally, Cardinal Blaise Supich of Chicago, joined me to explain the meaning of faith and a pontiff's moral obligations. Cardinal Blaise Supage, welcome to our programme.
Thank you, Christiane. Good to be with you.
Uh Cardinal, you've probably obviously heard what the Pope said to use the word filth. He talked about uh tyrants and autocrats. Tell me why this that this kind of escalation of words is happening.
Well, I think it's in keeping with his obligation and his sacred mission of sharing the gospel. And and that I think is something that uh has always been a part of the church's teaching that uh tyrants and those who uh wage wars, uh uh really do harm to the common good. Uh those teachings go back uh many years and so he's in keeping with that that mission.
Do you think um Archbishop That that Trump is right or the others in the administration are right when they they think that Pope Leo is addressing him with these comments. And is he?
Well I think that he's uh addressing the as he says, the zeal for war, the where war is now in vogue. Uh uh as uh Paul Francis said, it's being a world war that's being fought piecemeal. And so uh the Pope again is simply, you know, fulfilling his sacred mission of sharing the gospel. And I I would also say that comments uh were uh that attack the Pope really are not about attacking one person. But attacking the church itself and its mission.
Well the the attacks were pretty strong and I mean honestly I have covered uh you know, the world for a long, long time. I've actually never seen such an ad hominem attack from from the United States towards a pontiff. What do you make of that?
Well, for me it has all the appearance of an organized effort to discredit and marginalize the voice of the Catholic Church in the public square. And it would be really sad if this turns out to be a new chapter in the sad history of anti Catholicism in this country.
You know, very interestingly after um after Trump sort of went at the Pope for calling him weak, etcetera. The chairman of the US Catholic Bishops Committee, Doctrine Committee, said, for over a thousand years the Catholic Church has taught just war theory. So I just want to first ask you about the concept of just war.
Yes. So th th the concept of just war has always been uh defined by you have to make sure that you have an objective that's clearly defined, uh that's going to restore order and uh and justice. Uh we've seen uh so many comments about this particular war uh in which the objective is not clearly defined because it jumps from one topic to the other.
But you also I think in this modern era where you have weapons that uh can impact uh uh a wide range of uh uh uh innocent uh s uh victims in in a in a population. that y we have to make sure that we understand that uh when you wage that kind of war with these weapons, you have to look at what damage you're doing uh to uh a society, uh to people who are innocent victims uh in a country.
And so uh i there has to be a proportionality in the actions that are taken, but also very clearly defined goals.
So do you then and the Pope then does not believe this war is just as defined?
No, it is not just
Obviously this July fourth is the two hundred fiftieth uh anniversary of the you know of Americo. Um the Pope has declined an invitation. Instead he's going to minister to migrants, immigrants at Lampedusa in Italy. Do you support that decision?
Well of course, because um it c it's clear that he's showing that his priority is to reach out to uh those who are poor, uh, th those who are marginalized, who are forgotten. And um the fact that these are uh migrants uh fleeing uh either poverty or war and distress uh is really in tune with uh our American legacy uh that's uh inscribed on that tablet uh held by the Statue of Liberty. So uh it's a very uh it's a very uh Catholic thing to do, but also a very American thing.
And maybe a very American thing to do, finally I want to ask you, I was struck by the words of Pope Leo when he said, I am not afraid. And we exist, I think. Many people feel that they're in a environment right now that if they speak the truth or speak their moral beliefs, they might face consequences. Tell me about that, about the about the about the fear factor and and sort of, you know, confronting fear.
Well, I think that he responded to that uh in terms of whether or not he's going to continue speaking and speaking boldly. And it's at that moment that he said, I am going to do this, I'm not afraid to do this. uh and because it is my uh mission uh to preach the gospel. And I so I think that um uh it's not just a matter of not being afraid, but it's also a a boldness of spirit to make sure that uh he's true to his mission and obligation as a successor of Peter.
Well, it is something very um fascinating to watch and we really do appreciate you coming on uh to to our show. So Cardinal Blaze Supic, thank you for joining us from Chicago.
Thank you, Christiane. Good luck to you.
And the Pentagon, the Secretary of Defence, keeps portraying this war in divine and biblical terms.
Coming up next.
¶ US-Iran Conflict and Middle East Power
A region in crisis, a standoff between the United States and Iran, are we seeing a shift in American power in the Middle East? I speak to General Stanley McChrystal. And later, MAGA splits former Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green on why she broke with Trump and the movement's future.
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Welcome back to the program. The events of the past month in the Middle East have been headspinning and brutal, from threats to wipe out a whole civilization that some call genocidal, to peace talks in Pakistan. While American allies in the region are increasingly wondering whether Washington is in fact here to stay in the Middle East or will it abandon its allies to a new regional order following this war on Iran?
I speak to one of the most important military voices of our time, General Stanley McChrystal, who commanded U.S. forces in Afghanistan and also in Iraq. I asked him about America's role in this new emerging order. Welcome back to the programme.
Thank you for having me, Christian.
So look, this war uh between the United States and Iran, and I'm not even sure whether the United States has declared it officially a war. But it has veered and and swung uh from the early parts to now. Would you say right now, with this US blockade of Iranian ports, that for the moment it's swung back to the US advantage?
Yeah, I think it's dangerous to look at a war, and this is a war because we're killing each other and we may or may not declare it, but but that's what on the ground it is. To look at it like a game where we go by innings and see what the score is in the second inning or the third inning and the fourth inning, the outcome will take time to be clear. That outcome won't just be how many targets we hit in Iran.
It won't be the length of our blockade in the Strait of Hormous. It will be what the status or what is the condition of the region afterward. What do our regional allies feel about their security? How does essential commerce flow, primarily oil. What kind of regime remains in Iran and what is what are their intentions? And so all of those things will play out over time. So I think it's too early for us to to call the outcome.
There really does seem to have been, you know, a total upheaval in the way the allies, i.e. the Gulf allies in this case, were looking at the United States for protection, hosting US bases. And for them, their nightmare, their insurance policy was precisely against Iran. And they do not appear to have come out, you know, with that insurance having worked for them.
I think they are in an uncertain position. If we think back to, which I know we both experienced, our incursion into Iraq in 2003, there was the idea that we would remove a dangerous regime of Saddam Hussein, and he was. a dangerous person. But in reality, Iraq was not a threat to us, certainly not to the United States and not generally to the world.
Iran regionally has been a threat to the Gulf states, of course a threat to Israel. The challenge there, of course, by geographic location, is it doesn't take a lot for Iran to maintain enough threats. To make commercial shipping too high risk for most companies to do. And so we would have to likely, completely. destroy Iran's capability, which might mean putting soldiers and marines on the ground to do that.
And so a negotiated settlement that opens up that strait, I think, has to be a critical or maybe the critical outcome.
What do you think the US side should know about their adversary and about how that ad adversary thinks and approaches negotiations?
Of course, I'm a great believer we should go back and reorient ourselves on the history, even just as recently as nineteen fifty-three, with the American and British involvement, the overthrow of the elected prime minister, the support of the Shah.
For decades.
And then when the Iranian Revolution came, there are two perspectives of what happened after that. Our perspective is our our uh people were taken hostage in the embassy. There was a series of friction points. An Iranian perspective which can't be discounted by the includes the fact that we helped Saddam Hussein during the uh Iraq-Iran war. We shot down an Iranian airliner, mistakenly, but the USS Vincens did that.
And so from their standpoint, they see they see things very differently. I think one of the most important things is warfare is understanding what motivates your enemy. How what's their frame of reference? Because if we think that everybody sees it the same and they're just being difficult, I think that's a big mistake. And so the people who are leading Iran now have gone through a problematic last few decades.
And so particularly that the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, those are some pretty determined people. And so I think we need to take that into account.
What do you think the Trump doctrine is? Do you see a a a coherent Trump doctrine for the world?
I think they have used military force in Venezuela and now in Iran. And there is a reinforcing aspect to it. We were able to bring out the president of Venezuela. We we were able to hit a tremendous number of targets with relatively limited American losses. in Iran. The problem with military force is it has its limits. I refer to the length of the dogs chain. Once you bomb Iran for thirty plus days and you don't
topple the government, at a certain point they become a nerd to it. Similarly, if we talk about destroying the infrastructure of a country, I think we need to think the long-term implications of that. I believe that over time what we're hoping to hap happen is Iran becomes a regional player in the Mid East, a a sovereign country with a healthy economy that's part of the world order. And the more damage we do, the longer it takes them to to get back and be in a position to be that.
What do you make in all your years as a soldier and an officer now retired of the Pentagon what we know about firing people based on DEI and other political uh grounds, uh talking about stopping promotions based on similar uh criteria. What do you think in general that will do to the military?
Well, I think it's disappointing and I think it's dangerous. My perception of what's happened is you've had very capable leaders, very respected leaders, removed largely for political reasons. And so when that happens, even just the perception of it happens, it resonates through the force.
We've always had well particularly for the last sixty or so years, we've had a very apolitical military and we want that. But at the same time we want a technocratic uh ethos in it that says we are going to serve the popularly elected leaders, but we also expect that the force is going to be protected from the idea that if you aren't uh aligned enough with a certain political feeling that you are vulnerable. I think that would be a mistake and I think we've lost too much talent already.
After the break, targeting university students Russia's latest tactics to boost its exhausted military ranks. CNN investigates when we return.
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¶ Russia's Deceptive Military Recruitment
Welcome back to the program. Russia this week launched fierce bombardments across Ukrainian cities, killing at least 16 people, including a child. While Moscow makes only incremental gains and faces mounting losses on the battlefield. A new CNN investigation reveals how universities in Russia, once a refuge from military service, are increasingly being used to funnel students into the war.
Through a mix of financial incentives and misleading promises, young people are being recruited without really knowing just what they're signing up for as casualties rise and recruitment falters. The cost of sustaining Putin's war is being pushed onto the next generation. Here's Claire Sebastian.
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This is not a war-themed computer game. It's a recruitment video designed to convince students to join Russia's drone forces.
Тебе говорит.
Или что за играми ты тратишь время впустую?
You were told you were wasting time on video games, says this clip, but there is a place where your experience is especially valuable. The videos which began appearing on university websites and social media pages around the start of the year all advertise military contracts in Russia's newly formed unmanned systems forces. Here you see a gamer on the left, a drone operator on the right. One university captioned it. Choose the right skin.
But behind the flashy PR there is a darker side to this. Few students will speak out publicly, but some of those we have reached have told us anonymously that the pressure on them is rising. Everything changed this year, wrote one student. All the top people in the university are now calling on students to go to war. Students at risk of failure are a common target, hardly consistent with an effort to form an elite brigade. In this video sent to CNN by one student, a woman tells the group
If I were you, I would consider an option to join the drone forces. It will be as if your missing credits never existed. Another student told us on a single day in February his university almost expelled a third of our group and forced them to sign a contract on the spot to keep their place. Through videos, posters, and in person meetings, sometimes with soldiers serving in Ukraine, students are being promised an easier war.
Experience, a one-year fixed term, an opportunity to serve far from the front line, huge payouts, and high-tech skills. And yet,
Everything is a lie. This is simple contact with the Russian army, without uh deadline, without um without special term.
This is the small print. Russia's twenty twenty-two decree on mobilization, which was never cancelled, states every military contract remains in force until that decree is revoked. No exceptions, and no guarantees, experts and anti-war activists say, that the drone unit is where they'll end up.
As soon as the person signs a contract, he's literally a slave of Ministry of Defence and he can be sent to whatever unit Ministry of Defence uh will.
мирным
It's not clear yet how many students have been recruited so far. The Russian Ministry of Defense has not responded to CNN's request for comment. But none of the students we spoke to are buying in. I don't find this nonsense convincing, wrote one. I'm deeply opposed to the military propaganda. Among my classmates no one is considering signing a contract, even those in a very difficult financial situation, wrote another.
Russian losses in Ukraine have been mounting in recent months, its system of enticing soldiers with huge salaries and bonuses under increasing strain.
A lot of estimates in terms of the recruitment getting more expensive for the Kremlin, uh, which is why coercion is becoming more premanent.
За мир внутри тебя.
The main battle for peace is inside you, claims this recruitment video. Russia's internal battle for manpower is escalating.
The Russian Defense Ministry didn't respond to CNN's request for a comment. Now after the break, the MAGA movement fractures as loyalists turn on Trump. My interview with Marjorie Taylor Green is next.
I really think that he his mental capacity needs to be examined.
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I'm Jack McBrier and I'm
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Is this real? It is.
More outrageous you might paint.
It's my favorite color.
Oh look at this.
Bathroom. People who call these one of a kind.
Home.
Obtain a caboose.
Zillow Gone Wild, all new season.
Nine thirty on HG
¶ MAGA Splits and Trump's Criticism
Welcome back. Now earlier we talked about the battle for the soul of America. Now we turn to the battle for the souls of MAGA as splits emerge in the president's own support base. With longtime loyalists like former Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green leading the U-turn. Just a year ago, she was sporting a baseball cap that read Trump was right about everything.
Today, not so much, with the president backtracking on his no more wars promise to the people, not to mention the Jesus debate. Marjorie Taylor Green joined me from Georgia. Welcome to the program.
Hi, thank you for having me on.
You've been very critical of President Trump recently. When he, you know, made that very uh apocalyptic threat to essentially wipe out uh an a whole civilization will die tonight and will never be brought back. That's what he said about Iran. You responded twenty fifth amendment. Tell us what you what you meant.
I was absolutely shocked and horrified that the president, the man that I supported and helped get elected. uh would call for an entire civilization of people to be murdered. I really think that he his mental capacity needs to be examined. Uh his rhetoric has been shocking uh to many Americans and people around the world. Uh this is a war that that many Americans, especially younger generations who I side with most of the time.
do not support. We made campaign promises in twenty twenty four to the American people no more foreign wars, no more foreign regime change. And to put America as our focus. That means the American people and our economy uh and our future really. And however, we've seen a a drastic change here. I I call this war an unprovoked war. And President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu engaged this war against Iran.
There's not been a single bomb fall on America. And yet here we are spending nearly$2 billion a day. Yes, I I do think that it should be discussed, although it's very unlikely the 25th Amendment will be used.
And are you concerned, like uh, you know, many people were immediately very offended and concerned, particularly many Christians uh around the world, when um when first of all President Trump Essentially attacked the Pope, calling him weak on just about everything, and then somehow presented himself in a Christlike image. How did you read it?
I read it as blasphemy. Uh that's exactly how I read it. It was President Trump uh presenting himself to be Jesus, presenting himself to replace God. And that was extremely offensive to Christians and Catholics all over the world. Um it it is completely wrong. And then even further he he tried to s you know, sweep it away. saying that yo, he thought he was representing himself as a doctor, which is lying. And he didn't apologize, which he should have apologized, and it's just
It's it's it's ridiculous, really. Absolutely ridiculous. And so it is blasphemy and it's wrong. And President Trump owes Christians an apology.
As we've noted, you essentially have broken with Trump and he has I suppose broken with you. He does a play on on words with your name, Marjorie Traitor Green, etcetera. Can you explain to me what do you think is going on?
Thank you for bringing that up. Just to be clear, President Trump called me a traitor because I I fought to release the Epstein files defending women who were raped at fourteen and sixteen years old. And I would not obey his demands. Of taking my name off that discharge petition. That's why he calls me a traitor. Uh, I'm not a traitor to the United States. I stand with women and stand with victims.
I don't know what's going on, but I think that is the conversation that needs to be had. As a matter of fact, I think it's an extremely important conversation why the President of the United States wants to portray himself as God. and and why he would dare even use the words wipe out an entire civilization.
I think I've heard you talk about your worry that this split and these, as you say, broken promises to to Republicans and to the MAGA Bay. is showing up in a lack of turnout, in what potentially might happen at the midterms. Is that a worry? Am I reading that right?
We've seen it in races all over the country that have been held in in twenty twenty five and now in twenty twenty six. where Democrats are surging and Republicans are losing or either barely winning by much smaller margins, like the special election in my district. This is a huge warning for the midterms. And there was an event yesterday in Athens, Georgia for Turning Point USA, where Vice President JD Vance came to speak at at the University of Georgia in Athens.
And there was barely I think there were somewhere between three hundred to five hundred people in a nearly seven thousand seat auditorium. This should be warning signs for the Republican Party. And it's particularly concerning for my home state of Georgia. That could easily flip blue if Republicans are still so angry and furious at President Trump that they just don't turn out to vote.
You know, in terms of the opposition to the Iran war, you you are not alone amongst MAGA very prominent uh Influencers and media figures such as Tucker Carlson and Alex Jones and Candace Owens, all quite controversial, as you know, have also been accused of supporting anti-Semitic tropes or platforming anti-Semitic views. So is that an issue?
Yeah, I I don't I don't answer for other people. What I can tell you in my opinion is it's not anti-Semitic to be against the secular government of Israel and their wars. That's not anti Semitism. That's being anti-war. I've got a strong history of being anti-war, not just the war in Iran or against Israel's uh uh uh basically genocide in Gaza and what they're doing in Lebanon now.
I was also against US funding of Ukraine and my voting record shows that. And we're tired of seeing our military serve in these wars in foreign countries because many of them are our friends and our family members. and they come home forever changed with PTSD or in a flag draped coffin. And we're we're against that. That's not anti-Semitic or hateful towards any people group.
That's literally saying that we're tired of America fighting uh different countries' wars on their on their behalf. And that's what's happening in Iran.
Marjorie Taylor Green, former Congresswoman, thank you very much for being with us.
Thank you. It was good to speak with you.
Also ahead, three years into a brutal war and Sudan faces the world's worst humanitarian crisis. History is repeating itself. We look into my archive next.
About a million are displaced within Darfur itself and another 125,000 have had to flee to exile here in Chad.
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¶ Sudan's Deepening Humanitarian Crisis
Welcome back.
This week marks three years since war erupted in Sudan, a conflict that has spiraled into what the United Nations still calls the world's worst humanitarian crisis. Nearly 34 million people, around two-thirds of the population, need assistance, and more than 19 million are facing acute hunger, according to the World Food Programme. It is a man-made catastrophe and one that echoes a very painful past.
More than two decades ago in Darfur, I witnessed the same pattern of brutality, displacement, and indifference from the international community. Then, as now, the world had said never again, and yet here we are again.
Baha'i is so poor it can barely sustain But for more than a year it's been sharing its meager resources with 15,000 refugees. The UN and other international agencies only turned up a few months ago and they still haven't managed to set up camps this far north. Now they're in a race against time to keep all these people alive.
The rainy season is coming at the end of May, beginning of June. All this area will be completely flooded.
Children are now dying of preventable diseases like diarrhea for lack of water and health care.
It's happening a lot
Tries to give this little girl rehydration salts. Her mother then tries to drip feed her with a syringe, but she won't take the liquid. Dr. Camilo Valderama works for the International Rescue Committee. His job is to try to plug the healthcare hole. Chad has exactly 271 doctors for a population estimated at over 9 million.
So but here in for this area there's
Yeah.
technical agent who has basic basic uh training uh for thirty thousand people almost.
One for thirty thousand people. The babies are the most vulnerable. This little boy is twenty-two days old, his parents say, and yet he's not growing. His hands are shriveled, his face that of an old man. Severe malnutrition, says doctor Camillo These people say they had a decent life in Darfur until the Sudanese government, which is Arab, went to war against Darfur's indigenous African people.
Okay.
The refugees told us about the attack. They send in aircraft to bomb our villages, says Ahmed Salah, and then the militias come on horseback and burn down our houses and take all our possessions. Adam Suleiman told us they killed the men and brutally attacked the women and young girls. So they're raping old women and young women.
So just at this border point alone the refugees keep coming. Every week about 300 new refugees are crossing this riverbed, which forms the border between the Darfur region of Sudan and Chad.
They're fleeing what amounts to a campaign of ethnic cleansing conducted by the Sudanese army and its marauding militia called the Janjaweed. According to American and other human rights officials, Thousands of Sudanese villagers have been killed, about a million are displaced within Darfur itself, and another 125,000 have had to flee to exile here in Chad. With great difficulty the UN and Human Rights Watch gained access to Darfur and paint a picture.
appalling human rights abuses, including crimes against humanity that match the testimony of survivors. The US and Europe have broken a fragile ceasefire, yet they say the militias continue their reign of terror. Back across the border in Chad, the IRC is burning the refugees' only wealth, the carcasses of their animals which are dying of exhaustion and lack of food and water.
The goats, the sheep are food, and the donkeys are transport. So without their animals, they really have no resources left.
Further north in Carrefour, the UN is making its first food delivery since these refugees arrived months ago. What they're getting today will only last two weeks. Christiana Manpur, CNN on the Chad Sudan border.
Now that was in May 2004. A few months later, in September, the United States declared the atrocities a genocide, and the International Criminal Court. Issued war crimes charges for genocide against Omar al-Bashir, the president. That was in 2010. And imagine if it was difficult to get aid to these people then, all these years later, with the slashing of aid budgets from the United States. to Europe and elsewhere, things in today's war in Sudan are so much worse.
When we come back, amid Russia's brutal war on Ukraine, how an older generation in Odessa is dressing up to the nines to cope with the emotional toll of conflict.
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¶ Ukrainian Resilience Through Fashion
And finally, we wanted to end our program in fashionable style from Ukraine. When I saw these amazing images recently of elderly Ukrainians choosing to look their best even as the bombs fall, I knew it was an act of defiance and resistance. Because it immediately took me back to covering the siege of Sarajevo some 35 years ago, when that city went without much food, electricity, or water for months on end. And yet every shuttered beauty salon and barbershop.
Sprang to life the minute the lights came back on, and blow dryers for a moment drowned out the bombs. Listen to those voices.
Fantastic. It's fantastic. Psychologically it helps a lot. You have to look good.
But it's more. Good. Mehmed wants to remind the world that even though Sarajevo has been abandoned, have not let down their standards.
This is a type of resistance. We belong to a civilized world. It's an example of our struggle for survival in this besieged city.
All these years later, journalist Aljona Snienko was similarly inspired by the dignity of the residents of Odessa, recently featured in the New York Times. And here's what she told me.
It is uh a lot of inspiration to see these people, uh, because when you see them they just brighten up your day and we haven't had a lot of things happening around here that to lift our spirits lately. So uh seeing them, I think we can learn a lot from them. But also hearing them, because when you sit down and talk to them, some of the things that they say about their experiences and about how they see things. Uh again, it is very uh in like it inspires uh me a lot.
And just like in Sarajevo under siege and bombardment, in Odessa after more than four years of war, these men and women donned their beautifully tailored suits, they reclaimed their humanity, and perhaps Look in the mirror and envision a different future. That's all we have time for. Don't forget you can find all of our shows online as podcasts at cnn.com slash audio and on all other major platforms. I'm Christiana Manpoor in London. Thank you for watching, and I'll see you again next week.
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I'm Daniel Day Kim. I'm going to South Korea to figure out how this small nation conquered the world with its culture. Join me and meet the artists and creators behind the phenomenon.
K Everything, streaming May 9th on the CNN app.
Of Pat Field in the wide open race for California Governor. It's a rare all-party private. Democrats and Republicans face off the California Governor Primary Debate. Live Tuesday, May 5th at 9 on CNN, or watch on the CNN app.