And this is Michael Rosenbaum Alex Luthor, and you're listening to Always hold on to Smallville.
Welcome to Always hold On to Smallville. In this podcast, we've talked about each and every episode of the Young Superman show that ran from two thousand and one to twenty eleven on the WB and the CW. I'm your host, Zach Moore, and we're back with another Top ten episodes. That's right, we are determining the top ten episodes of Smallville as voted by you, the listeners, and this time the number two entry Justice Justice is an iconic episode.
If you search Smallville online, you're gonna come up with three images. Clark Kent from the pilot with the S on his chest strung up in the cornfield, the very last shot of the series with Clark ripping open his shirt to reveal the Superman costume running towards camera, or the cool Guys don't look at explosions. Shot of Clark and the Proto Justice League walking away from the Luther Core facility as it explodes. You have Clark Kent, Green Arrow,
the Flash, Impulse, Aquaman, and Cyboard. This episode was an event, still is an event.
You look back.
What other on screen Justice League things were there? Well, the failed Justice League of America pilot from nineteen ninety seven. It is out there to find. I do not recommend watching it. It is terrible. But other than that, you had the Challenge of the Superheroes kind of a TV special with Adam West and Bert Ward returning as Batman and Robin. Those are interesting curiosities from the seventies, but that's more of a sketch TV show special. They did
two of those. But other than those things, this is the first time these DC comics characters sand some notable exceptions like Batman, Wonder Roman, Greenlantern, we know they were not available to be used. So this was the Justice League. Predates the Marvel Cinematic Universe, it predates the DCEU, it predates the DCU right an animation. Those guys with the
DC Animated Universe were killing it. The gold standard Justice League and Justice League Ulimited, which are apparently two different TV shows, but totally nail what the Justice League is all about. But in live action. This is the first and still one of the best, and to see it small villified, but like in the best way. You know, a lot of times we use that as a derogatory. You think of things like mister Mixus Pedelic or death Stroke,
for example. You put the Justice League through the Smallville filter, and that's the difference between something like the Jeff Johns episodes later in the series, right where it's the Comics coming to Smallville. Right, it's the Legion of Superheroes, it's the Justice Society, it's Booster Gold. It's literally stepping out of the common Book into the world of Smallville. Those characters, those ideas, those teams. Here, it's Smallville going to the comics.
It is Hey, we have these characters. We've established them all the Flash, Impulse, Aquaman, Cyborg, They've all had their own individual episodes before this. Of course, Green Arrow has been a recurring guest star the first half of season six, so you're not just meeting them for the first time here in this episode. They have pre established relationships. The interplay between them and Clark, it feels like a payoff
to what you've been watching. Was this payoff necessary? No, because those individual episodes are some of the best episodes of the show, right, the Cyborg Aqua run, those are some of the best episodes of Smallville, and they would still be if they didn't team up in this Justice episode. But it feels like a culmination of things level thirty
three point one activity with Lex here. We get some micotic stuff right with him and capturing Impulse and him in Green Arrow's confrontation, and this is you know, season six is the height of Lex Luthor's villainy on the show. I've said that over the years on the podcast and between what he's got going on here and what he does to Lanta, absolutely this is the height of his villainy. Of course, he does kill Lionel in season seven, so that is a that is a definite it's up there.
Killing your own father is definitely on the list there. But Lex Leer does some evil, evil things, and uh yeah, he's the villain here, right, So we have our superhero team, we have a super villain. Is there a physical confrontation? No, But the way this episode plays to the strengths of all the characters that we know, the personalities, it just works so well. And as I recall, this is the first episode of Smallville that Lana Lang is it in that Kristen Kirk isn't in, and you know, Lona gets
a bad rap, I think on the show. So I feel bad that so often we're like, well, there's no silly A lot of scenes in this episode, so that's a plus, you know, It's it is unfortunate because that's a character who we all love when the show started, and they did not know what to do with her, as became the case with Chloe after her and Lois in reverse, you know, like if you follow my thinking here, right, they don't know what to do with Lana after a while,
they don't know what to do with Chloe after a while. They can't do what they want to do with Lois for a while. So she actually her reverse character trajectory plays to her favor because she becomes more and more than lowis we always wanted obviously in those last three seasons where characters like Lana and Chloe they just kind of fizzle out, they like outlive what their characters were.
And so anyway, I say that here in season six to say, yes, this is the first episode with Allana as I recall again, unless I'm forgetting another episode she wasn't in, but I can't think of any So I feel bad that it's like, yes, finally an episode with Alana one of the best of the show according to all the number two episodes of the show. So I just I do want to say that the writing let her down. Kristen Kirk's a great actress. Alana was a
good character until they started doing some crazy stuff with her. Anyway, all that to say, this is a great episode. It deserves to be in the top ten episodes of Smallville. So let's look back on what we gave justice on the letter grade scale. On the podcast Proper Justice had myself and John Lee Brody. I gave it an A plus and John gave it an A plus, So there you go again. Can't get much higher than an A plus. Literally cannot scientifically get higher than an A plus on
the letter grade scale. So here on the top ten Episodes, I once again joined by Lance Laster from Always Hold On to Arrow. Now, due to scheduling, we could not assemble the majority of our panel, so Lance and I recorded together and Victoria Malee, Matt Schruix from Wilson Clark to the new podcast of Superman and many of the podcasts here on the Always Hold On To network and Patreon,
and Matthew Rocca. The three of them all sent in individual thoughts to contribute to this episode, so a little different than the converse sational format we've been doing here, but I wanted to make sure that everyone's voices and opinions were heard for this one. So without further ado, let's discuss the number two episode of Smallville Justice.
What would you do if one day you realized someone close to you it's been keeping.
The biggest secret of val hiding is true identity from everyone.
He supposedly cares out people.
Keep things private for a reason.
I want to spend the rest of my life with you.
Will you marry me?
Chloe?
Lex proposed something wouldn't let me say yes?
You knew she was vulnerable, and you played her until she thought she was in love with you.
Must be killing you.
That she's hesitating, you see. I highly doubt she'll say no, Clark.
I'm pregnant. Clark.
You said that you'd take a love of me anymore, and I tried to cut everything off. But I'm not made that way.
Lex.
Luthor's building an army.
He's starting a war.
You can't let that happen.
Don't worry, my team's on it.
Let's go save the world.
Small Fair All new episodes Thursdays at eight seven Central on the new CW.
Justice. Does this surprise you? Its placement on the top ten list? Not on the top ten list?
I think?
And we'll talk a better buy his list here in a second. Yeah, but I think most people who are fans of small Ball, and even most people who aren't, they know.
About this episode.
Yes, and they would say, yeah, that's a top ten episode. But being number two does that surprise you at all? It's so hot?
Being number two surprises me. Being part of the top ten does not.
Why is that?
Because I think I think there are better episodes now, not very many because it was part of my top ten, but there are better episodes. So again, like it's placement in the top ten, I'm not questioning. I am questioning it being two because I don't think, in my personal opinion, I don't think that this is the second best episode of small though.
Yeah, so let's go through our top ten list. Justice ranked seventh on my Top tens. It ranked tenth on her top ten list, A true bubble episode for lanceover There Right Victoria, it ranked eighth on her list. Roca ranked it ninth on his list, and Matt Truex yet again leaving these top episodes off of his top ten. Justice is nowhere to be found on his list. He did put Absolute Justice.
And that's an interesting thing. I have Absolute Justice higher on my personal.
You have Absolute Justice fifth, and I have Absolute Justice ninth.
Okay, Trux has Absolute.
Justice as eighth on his list, and Roca Victoria do not have it on their list. So for those listening at home, Justice is the one with the green Arrow and Impulse and Ackaman and Cyborg. Yes, and Absolute Justice is the two parter in season nine with.
The Justice A side.
I think that we kind of got it right. It's part of the top ten, but not part of the top half.
It's part of the you know, right, everybody here who had it on their list had on the bottom half. And I think a reason why that is it's a great episode, but it's not Smallville in its DNA correct now that this is unrecognizable and there's a lot of continuity payoffs here, right, so that goes a long way. I mean, these were turning characters alone, it's huge.
Yeah, that's that's honestly, that's the biggest deal.
To see these interactions of these characters, and it is like, this is a superhero episode. It's almost and you know, it's almost like a backdoor pilot for a Justice League show, which is kind of what they were thinking. You know, they always they're always thinking about these like it's it's so weird that we've talked about this, but you look at a show like this and you're like, oh, well, Green Arrow was on the show Flash Gone, Flash was on this show. Aw Come man Cybarc All these characters.
If this was the CW of twenty twelve onward, yes, all these characters that have shows, or there'd be a Justice League show of them going around the world and adventures and having like this camaraderie thing.
Yeah, it'd be like this was Legends before Legends.
They throw in the Angel of Vengeance. Yeah, just whoever.
Else they got. That's a great point. That would be Legends tomorrow for Legends. This ragtag mish smash group of leftover characters Legends is it's like, who are all these characters we have? When we do some with them, it's like, let's get the Adam in here, Let's get a Firestorm, you know, the third Black Canarya, but really the first
Black and area technically the fourth anyway, it's comedy. They immediately established Lana's Lana's in Paris nel shot dress Nell reference right, yeah, so she she does not appear in this episode. Nell all right, well we'll see here and promise Christian Kirk's nine in this one. There's all I mean, there's so many other characters it wouldn't go to be in place for her. You know, Martha gets you know, half a scene and a classic scene between two characters.
One character literally ex ex screen left, other character inter street. But when Bart's eating all this food and Mark the maid because he has to keep his calories up, and she's like, where does it all go? You're you eat more than Clark and you're half his size.
Yeah, for a lot of calories.
And so she goes to like leaving, like picks up a jacket and then use that as an edit point where he's.
Like, hey, Barbi, what your mind?
She's cleaning up and clean and he's like, oh, no, problem is cass.
It's cute.
And so that's a nice half scene with her, and then Clark immediately comes here, we'll do it her Bart.
Clark is yeah, He's like cut the cut, the act.
Clark is so like but I like him and Superman's like means no means business. No, he's no nonsense. It means storming into places. He's treating everybody like lex AND's episode storms in accusing Bart storms in accused Oliver.
Yeah, tries to do. He tries to do with the Lionel too, but then Lionel hits it with the information and that Bart's been stealing from Mexico.
Storms my call. I know, Well Clark been at Lionel. Let's talk about Linel. So where suspenders.
Yeah, he's old man, Lionel man, and he's getting older. It's just funny to see him with suspenders. He's wearing glasses too, which is which is new. I thought they'd given him the glasses after he got his eyesight back. That's not because I mean, like season one and stuff, he had glasses, but you don't only see him with glasses much after that. But I mean he had him
like when he's in prison in season four though. Yeah, but they randomly decide to have lionelhigh glasses, which is like probably John Overs.
He needs something to do. That's probably why he has the class.
Probably Sean Glover's actual classes.
He just brings some layers.
Hey man, dude's a beast.
So yeah, Lionel playing all the angles in this episode, right, because he's like, you know, he knows about thirty three point one alexis doing trying to stay on that side, investigating stuff lectures from this picture. He thinks it's Clark, as he would, you know, because who else would you have super speech?
Yeah, he doesn't know anybody else that doesn't you know?
Interesting that Clark protects park secret with everybody, because the episode starts and Chloe gets a gun pulled on and bart saves her.
Correct Clark shows up, He's like, oh, what happened?
You know?
Yeah, he was on before when I got.
Here, and so he sees Barton. He chases him, but he doesn't know.
Cool. He's like, oh, you're got faster than me.
I don't. Yeah, well he tells her later.
He finally comes cleaning, right, but he's keeping a secret.
He's keeping a secret. Linel was like, oh is spurs? Yeah, of course Clark doesn't tell him. It's nice that he respects, you know, the secret.
Well yeah, well, well that's kind of one of the bigger things with this episode for me. Why it resonates with me, like after seeing it again recently, you know,
for this podcast. You know, a big thing that goes on in this episode is Clark joins the fraternity essentially in this episode, right, And you know, I'm not sure how many of you out there are in a fraternity or in a sorority, but like there's something special about a group of individuals coming together with the same common goal, same thing, similar to like, you know, very similar to
like a sports team. Like they refer to themselves as like you know, the team, right, and they all played their role, they all sorted to function, you could see, like Clark even like falls in line and like follows Oliver's lead and a lot of aspects. And so when you think about the Justice League, the Avengers, the X Men, whatever,
they are a family. They're a team. And you know, especially the ones that where it's you know, uh, you know, the male dominated ones, like it's a fraternity, right, and like it and it represents the good aspects of it. I understand all the you know this this you know the stereotypes and the stuff that go along with it because you know a lot of that it's true, but there are even those moments in this as well, like like them ripping on each other, like you know for all, yeah, everybody,
Like everybody's ripping on each other. Like you know the fact that everybody has nicknames these little tiny things, right, but like.
It makes it different jackets to say a com Well, we'll see.
We'll see they don't have line jackets, but they all have they all have have uniforms, right and so and like and also like the color coordination for everybody, so good gets.
A lot of crap for these hoodies and stuff.
I think it's I think it's very reasonable. I agree because okay, because Oliver he's the first one. He's like, look, I'm gonna give you a costume that kind of looks like mine. It makes sense, yes, but it's true. Hoods interfere with facial id software. That's why when you see people go on the run they put hoodies on because it messes up you know, facial identification software.
So it's really smart.
And then eyes, I mean, like, yeah, it makes sense. I'm not gonna wear like masks and stuff because I think a Domino mask. Everybody knows that Robin Dick Grayson, Yes exactly, Yeah, that's what And that's why one of the more recent Robin costumes has a hood.
Well, yeah, that's why Damian Wayne has a hood. Yeah.
Although in Batman Dark Victory, he's like, lose the hood, you're Robin.
Yeah, no, no, not. It was an all star Batman.
Yeah, sure, yes, I think it's Victory.
It's not all right, but yeah, Clark basically joining a fraternity here is pretty cool. Just the superhero action of this whole thing. I loved there.
We are having my hands Dark Victory.
It's not gonna be in there.
Jeff Loobe and Tim sayle it's.
All star Batman and Robin Frank Miller. I'm telling you right now what it is. See, this is what this is. Listeners pull, you know, pulling back the curtain even further. This is what happens a lot. I'm right about something. He goes to check, and then it proves that I'm right.
You can't find the page at this time.
Because it's not in Dark Victory.
And on page three seventy nine, Batman says, what is that you're wearing?
That's all He's says, rob keep one. It's not in Robin ear one. I love this. Speaking of hoods, Robin does have a hood in the Arkham Games, and you know you're speaking about like the Domino mass. I think the appropriate thing for Robin to wear would be something like what the Winter Soldier wore, like if he had something to coming with his face or the black goggle things that he was wearing, that would be more appropriate.
He's looking again now he has Now he has his copy of Robin Year one, which, by the way, they don't really they don't sell this anymore, does not because it's not it's in all Star Batman and Robin.
You know what.
I don't own also Batman Robin because I like comic books, all right, you.
Know, and it's a funny thing. I don't own it either, but I know what it's from.
Did you sell your shoes? Yeah, because I've read your that you're the because in college I read your that's right out with part two of that. No, explain why Grayson turned to a mutant and strikes again. No, anyway, we're getting way off face here.
So it ends with them prying at like at the grave. That's what That's what it ends. Well, anyway, I'm right, everybody back.
On the show. Hoods right, Oliver Queen in this Justin Hartley. It's just doing his Justin Harlly thing. He doesn't what who does best?
Right? And that's one of my favorite friends lying in the show.
Right, what I'll do best? I think I say that to you like in like text, like all the time, I'll send that for like Shorthand. It's it's again feeling about the curtain.
More this episode. It is his last appearance on the show for a while. He makes one appearance in season seven to set up his romance with the black canary, Yes Siren, and then they decide not to do that because it's a live action adaptation of Greener. Oh, so he doesn't end up with a black canary. Small hold did it first? So he winds up with a blonde tech girl. I love the scene where he's like, well we should go on a break and she's like, well do you what do you mean like to you other people?
And and I think he really didn't mean going to break. He's like, oh, she took you wrong. I'm gonna pivot you friends references.
Pivot we were all all break we were all all break friends references for all you out there.
And he's like, oh, well, I meant like you and me want to break together and we go to vacation. It's great, that's classic. I do this stuff all the time.
Put them out there. It doesn't go well.
Just you spin, you pivot, you adapt, turn your handicap into a handy able to go jeff lie. So anyway, that was just a funny scene. And yeah, and so he and He's gone. They go to save the world after this. Yes, and then you're like, oh, well, surely they'll show up in the season finale to fight phantom z Owners. You know, yeah, but but but no, there's a tightian comic book that shows their adventures. Also, I love how you know, Oliver's like, what the hell are we doing?
Clark?
Basically I had something else going on.
Okay, I had another problem.
I do love the exposition dumpson here and watching these out of context, it is helpful. I'm not gonna lie like. I'm all about arc storytelling. Smavel had a pretty good balance of the continuing the story but yet episodic where you can watch things in a vacuum. They still work, right Because Clark and Chloyer catch up in the barn, He's like, well, you know, with.
The Phantom's owners, and like, oh yeah, coming.
On, and you know, a couple of reverences Salana and Lex being engaged. So whenever Clark has interact with other heroes is great. They lean heavily on his relationship with Bart. Yes, you know, they spent a lot, like the first part of the episode is about that, which is great because that was such a.
Well, it was a strong relationship. But also like they had to like reconnect because they haven't seen him in two years, right, and I doubt they've like kept in touch and like sent emails or anything.
Yeah, that's it shows like this when characters show up, it's like they're like sometimes they've been in contact. Both times they haven't because if they had been in contact, they wouldn't be thinking, oh what have you been doing?
Right?
But you need that on screen, you do so.
And like and he has that moment like quickly like you know, like with the other heroes later, like when they're in in the Oliver's loft, My.
Team's already on it.
Yeah, team team, and like you know, and then you know, the famous Jet Jackson shows up and and uh you know Hawk, Yeah, like he shows up and he has a little moment with them, like each of them, like.
And they say how they came to Oliver.
Yeah. Like at the same time, it's like it's establishing the fact that, like, oh, Clark knows them. It's like when you meet somebody who's like, oh, but like I was friends with them, and then but you're friends with them. Also. Yeah, it's worlds colliding.
It's pretty Steven Us Tonight went on to Your Daredevil after this. Obviously Spartacus the TV show. Yes, all right, much acclaim over there a lot of Arrow actors like Trina Law and man who did it?
Actors like that.
I sent the a Die Robinson to.
The third best live action Amanda Walter. Yeah, really smart storytelling, really efficient, you know, and uh but yeah, Steven has Tonight one of the best writers on Small Villain director too.
This is well directed EISO.
A lot of low angle shots of the heroes and all that stuff, Like, there was a lot of cool visuals here.
Obviously, of course, the.
Cool guys don't look at exposure. Absolutely right, go google that the great snl skit from quite a few years ago. You know, every action movie of all time has the guy slowly walking away. Absolutely the most iconic shots in Smallville. It really is like whenever it's like, whenever there's some kind of like article about Smallville in a magazine.
Or a website, they use this image.
This is this is the image, and it's all them first of all, though their hood should still be up because clearly someone gets to see them like one of likes his people. Why is it Oliver in the middle, I don't know. Reminds me of our small Lit cast picture.
I know you're gonna say that. I know you're gonna say that.
Last night I got the photo was the rolled Austin Yes, twenty nineteen with the cast of Smallville. Yes, And you know he was the line first, so he got kind of were in front of me. Yeah, and he's in the center of the picture. Like I'm gonna have to get my own picture with no one else for me in it. I'm the star of this show.
See got today.
You think you're Clark, but he really lacks everybody, all right, So that's what it's all about there. But anyway, I thought about that, it was like, why is Clark in the middle. It's Oliver's team, right? Talking about getting recognized though, yeah, right, because like Lex talks and line all day and He's like the card described someone very much like Clark kid. I'm thinking to myself, what do they say, Like it
was like a dog. He's like six du like a red jacket and a blue shirt, kind of a dopey looking guy from the top and he sells line is like Clark, oh, Martha.
Last night, it's so good. That's one of my.
Favorite three and you know stuff like that.
So anyway, and like, I just love Lex's face of that, Like he's so defeated. The fact that Lex believes it, in the fact that Lionel just had that ready to go to use is brilliant.
Well he doesn't think that. Why would Lionel at this point in the show, right, protect Clark over me? Right, He's like, well, he has no reason to lie to me about it exactly. And I know he's all about the kids. So I guess that does track.
Uh huh gets so close? Yeah, so close, so good.
So but yeah, yeah, the the green Arrow Oliver Queen Lex Uth rival.
He continues here.
I liked how they showed Oliver like using like an actual.
The little arrow gun. I was like, did he not?
Yeah? Too many times in Smallville, Like he uses the like the little crossbow gun and it's like, it's annoying. This is one of the things that you got to give Arrow tons of credit for. And Steven mil like he's using a bow and arrow.
I mean he's Batman light in this and I'm small that's the green Arrow row.
But that's the character character.
That's it's it's meta because it works because green Arrow was a ripoff of Batman looking at an arrow car and an arrow k which makes no sense.
Of aeroplane aero plane arrow signal.
Yeah, so whenever cycles Batman.
They use green Arrow, and I'm fine with that because of the inception of the character. But yeah, Justice right, I mean, obviously one of the greatest episodes of Smallville set the tone for lots of superhero things to come. Uh, there is a Green Arrow show, now, Yes, there is a Flash TV show. There is an Aquaman movie that made a billion dollars.
Yeah, there's a there's Cyborg in a Justice League film.
Yeah, Cyberg in the Justice League film, Cyborg and the Team Titan show Cyborg of course, and all the Team Titans cartoons already. Yeah, but Cyborg in the in the new fifty two Justice League, Like this.
Really puts in Setrol and you know, oh, that's what I meant.
The teen Titan showed Doom Patrol, right, But this put in Cyberg more in the mainstream because people well, of course he been on small before, which helped, but then him along with these character just kind of elevated him to the status because he was a Team Titan and now he's up here with the flash quote unquote, Yeah.
He could to pick his name either, right, that's really good.
It's like meta, well done, yep, WB with his name.
Black Salutor's building an army. You can't let that happen.
Don't worry.
My team's on it.
Your team, not everybody.
Blay Solo can.
Let's go save the world.
Smallville followed by Supernatural. All the episodes this Thursday at eight seventh Central on the new CW.
Hello everyone, it's Victoria here to share my thoughts on everyone's number two favorite episode of Smallville, Justice and I can totally see why this is everyone's, you know, one of everyone's top faves after rewatching it just now, I think it's the perfect balance and small though they don't always hit strike this, but when they do it is
so good. It's the perfect balance of you know, this world that we've built in small Vell, this pre Superman world, and also balancing it with Superman and all the things we love about Superman, and one of the things we love about Superman is.
The Justice League.
And I think they did such a good job here in this episode of showing it in its nascent stages. I also realized while I was watching it just how brilliant it was, and I have to commend them, And I think this is one of the great parts of television that sometimes movies they don't have this luxury unless you're the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which wasn't even I don't think really conceived of at this time. I think this episode came out in like two thousand and six, two
thousand and seven. Was they really took their time with introducing every member of the Justice League, and every member of the Justice League had their own episode, and you know, obviously in Oliver's case, there was more, he had a whole half season arc. But I think that was great that they made us really wait for it, and they laid the groundwork so none of the characters, you know, when when you brought them all together, none of them
felt like caricatures or incomplete characters. You had the time to get to know them throughout the duration of the series, so that when they all came together, we could just really enjoy how they played off each other and their dynamic working together. That was my I think what we all love about it, And I think they did it in a way where you get to see everyone's powers, but still you know they're bouncing it with the word
world of small thol where they're not. No one is really operating at full power, which is great, which is what you want. I mean, you don't. It's you know, it's no flight snow tight Superman before he was Superman. I think if they'd kind of gone all out and everyone was you know, peak Awquaamen, peak Cyborg, peak flash
peak Superman, it almost would have felt jarring. So I just have to commend the writers and the directors and everyone involved in that episode on really keeping things like coherent and cohesive.
To the show.
You know something, though, I think it was great that they did a really good job of showing everyone's talents. I almost wish there was more Clark in this. I feel like Clark was kind of passive and I wish he had had a more active role. And I get it, you want like the guest stars to shine like Clark's.
Here every week.
But I think that was one thing I was lacking when I was watching the episode, is I wish that Clark would have been able to work with them more. And I know that's like also the Justice Leagues complaint that they were like Clark, we wish you would work with us more. We wish you were more of a team player. But yeah, that was like my one small kind of structural complaint. I always I love Bart Allen.
I love him, and this depiction of the character. I think my love for Kyle Gallener's performance of him is like a big reason why I don't think I could ever totally like commit to the Flash. I also think it's because I knew Grant Gustin from Glee and I was like, wait, no, this is You're not Sebastian, You're not acting like this character I originally knew you as
I just love him. It was heartbreaking to see Lee Thompson Young, another actor who I knew from another TV show, but I thought he did a great job playing Cyborg and Victor. I knew him from the famous Judd Jackson. I don't know if anyone else remembers that, like deep cut Disney Show and then you know again, it just cracks me up with Justin Hartley because he will always be my green arrow and nothing against Steven Emmel, but
he was such an achievement. The fact that they were able to pull off a crossover it like this, and I think, you know, up until then, people thought it couldn't be done. I'm thinking like now, like I'm just thinking of superhero movies that were out the time. I think that was really when people were running into like two villainitis, and people were trying to outdo the last movie, outdo the last sequel, and make it bigger and bigger
and bigger, and it didn't always work. I think of one of my like my favorite superhero trilogy of all time, spider Man The Og spider Man like that. This is a small Bull podcast, not a spider Man three podcasts, so we won't really dive into that. That was a big problem with I think that movie is that they
tried to do too much. And I think it's the huge achievement of this episode and of this series up until this point that they really took the time laying out these characters, and then when they brought them together, they really did it well, and I absolutely love that. Also, one thing that it was kind of missing, and I get that it's kind of it was Chloe. Really this was Chloe's like first real step into being watch Tower, and I definitely clocked that this was like the first
time that I called her it. But I wished that she could have been in the action more. I wish, honestly that Lois could have been in the action war. I was kind of frustrated that she was just on the sidelines, being like, I'm gonna pack for a trip with Oli her, like, just because they do such a good job on the series of making Lois when she's in the action, she's in the action and she's not sitting on the sidelines. So I was slightly frustrated that
she was on the sidelines for this. And I'd forgotten that this was like the episode that kind of wrapped up Green Arrows aark in small Ville season six, and that this is the episode that him and Love was split up in.
But I thought it was done.
It was so CW acting, but like on the spectrum of CW acting. It wasn't like heinous like they did they you know, stuck in the genre without doing it, without overdoing it, because I think Erica and Justin are both fantastic actors. But yeah, it was funny. It was very kind of like just a tad like, oh no, oh, we could never be together. This is the moment when I'm throwing I'm gonna regret.
For the rest of my life, isn't it.
I was like, oh my god. But I also think it was good kind of foreshadowing and precursor to the big conundrum, to this conundrum of Lois's life and her love life and her biggest romantic relationships she will have in her life is with a superhero and facing this problem of I did love Oliver's line when he mentioned that he's like, there are bigger things than what I want and what I love and trying to reconcile that. I think this was like a good little microcosm of it.
I just think it wasn't quite as satisfying to me because it wasn't Lois and Clark, who are my DC endgame for sure. I also think another thing that I really enjoyed about this was the Luthers obviously, but I felt like, because who doesn't enjoy the Luthers when they're own? Also the fact there was no Lana like bless because this is when I again I was I had to be reminded, like, oh right, season six, this is like
the season of Lexana. And I loved that Lana was wedding dress shopping and like not in the picture for this for this since because I feel like this was the season that Lana really just tanked as a character and this was someone who loved her in the first season and second season and third season, and I think season four is really when we started running into some problems. But I think that's another fun thing is we really get to see the heroes being the heroes, and we
really get to see Lex being the villain. And when he trapped Bart in that like weird prison thing where the tank with the or cage or whatever you want to call it, with the with the heated or like the shocking floor, I thought to myself, I was like, that's so comic book, But it was so fun and satisfying to see, and it was smart and had this level of ingenuity that you want from Lex Luthor, like again, we were going kind of full comic book crossover with this,
and they did it in a way that was super fun but still like grounded and felt appropriate to the show. And it was fun to see Lionel kind of be the double agent on each side and provide the that all important alibi at the end of the episode to Lex saying that he was having dinner with Clark and that's why he there was no way he could have been involved with the little the rendezvous that Justice League
had had. Yeah, I just thought it was I get it, like, it's a super fun episode we get to see, you know, the series, you know, teases out these moments of like full on superheroing, and this was a moment that really felt earned and was super fun and satisfying to watch, And I just I had a blast watching it, And again, I was reminded of a lot of the reasons why I love this show and and why I remember being
totally exhilarated watching it. I think I watched I did watch it on TV you know when it aired, and it was just totally fun and it recaptured some of that nostalgia for me. And yeah, I do wish Clark would have been a little more active, but I do understand why they they ultimately chose not to, And it also felt like like congruous with this character, like he was alone, he's very used to being a lone wolf,
and he had trust issues which are founded. And also I think what really helped was that he had when he had to say, like, no, guys, I can't come with you.
It wasn't just because he's like, I'm a lone wolf and this show is called Smallville and I'm not allowed to really leave Smallville. But I think also having the Phantom Zone kind of overarching plot really helped ground and kind of substantiate the no from Clark. For me, when he had to say no, I'd be like, guys, I can't go with you, Like there's I have like my own personal fish to fry that fell real to me.
And also like I do wish there had been something more with Bart and Chloe, because I feel like Chloe has suffered so long that she deserves some like wholesome for real like superhero wooing. So they're a ship that.
I guess I will continue to ship, unsuccessfully or not, out of a non kinonship that I will continue to Captain Bart and Chloe. But yeah, I thought I get it, guys, Like it was a super fun episode. It was great to revisit, and I think it's an example of the show very much at its best. That's all I got to say about it. All right, this has been Victoria signing off.
Lex Salutter's building an army.
We can't let that happen.
Don't worry.
My team's on it.
Your team, not everybody who was so low Kate.
Let's go to save the world Smallville.
All new episode next Thursday on the New CW.
Hey everybody, Matt Trix here. Sorry I couldn't join for this episode. Very sorry honestly, because this is I mean, I'm sure it's been covered, but this is one that feels so pivotal to Smallville, and especially kind of like a backdoor pilot for later seasons. I did want to just throw out some favorite things and do a little personal story here, so as far as favorite things go, First of all, the episode, especially when it gets going at the Ridge Facility, looks so good, like they really
took the extra time of the cinematography on this. I was just rewatching that whole Ridge Facility sequence and it's really impressive. Like I really love the moments where like Oliver or Clark are like smoking in or smoking out, like literally through the fog that seems to be always pumping through a Luther Corp hall away like those. So that's just a very random detail that I think I
helped the episode a lot. Lex is full on villain here, and I know at this point he has held various members of our little Justice League captive like this before. But just watching him, like his banter with Bart and the whole like, you know, I want a ponytail of
it all is really cool. And then the confrontation again with Oliver is also exactly what it should be, especially as Oliver like Batman's out of the scene at the end and hits him just enough to like clip his cheek like that with the arrow.
You know.
Also love the introduction of Chloe as Watchtower of course, and all the code names you know, boy Scout and all that. Also just crazy to hear Oliver straight up saying like Cyborg and Aquaman, it's cool that they kind of got to that. And the banter between the heroes here is straight out of something like Justice League International or even some of the current stuff with just like you know, Ken Opener and look good in a bag
of green beans. Like I love that Justin Hartley takes a moment to like smile at that line when Cyborg says her because it's just it feels like work friends, you know, like it feels like they've done this before. I also love Clark having to hear like one hundred percent assurance from Chloe before he agrees to letting the
facility blow. But even more than that, like one missed opportunity I feel in this is like as she's watching the heat signature and she's watching that facility go up in flames, I so wish there had been five, just like slowly walking heat signatures escape in the building, like watching them slow mo out of there, Like what she must have thought if she saw them walking so slowly as this thing like erupts into hell, you know anyway, And also, like beyond the superhero stuff, I really really
love the Lois and Allie breakup scene. Say what you want about the fact that Lois has made out with most of the Justice League at this point, but I really liked the writing here and Oliver is like this is the moment, isn't it like that whole line exchange always stuck with me, like since the first time this episode aired. Really it's stupid and it's it's melodramatic and all that, but it's good. It just kind of stuck
in my head. Anyway. The hype around this episode was so real at the time, and then the fact that it resulted in a new wave of action figures and you know, the whole team like that was very cool. I remember those photos coming out of Comic Con of like Justin Hartley leaning down with I think they were just unpainted prototypes at the time of the figures, but I'm pretty sure that hip crypt on site that summer and excited all of us. On that note, the action
figures just a small thing. Like I grew up in Jersey and my comic book store was Jay and Silent Bob's secret stash before it became the secret stash of comic book men, and I wasn't able to get up there when the figures released, But like a few months later I got up there and was asking about them, and Mike Zapsick made like a big hairy deal and gave me a huge eye roll and ran down to the basement and pulled up the figures and I bought it wasn't the whole team. Sorry to impulse in Cyborg,
but I just got Clark and Oliver and Ac. I'll just always remember that. For whatever reason, every time I watch Colic Book Man, I just think of like Mike's eye roll, as this young kid is coming into his Collic Book store and just asking for action figures of not even like Colic Book stuff of just like this Smallville action figures please or anyway, such a great episode, and again kind of heralds what volume three of Smallville's really like when we get to the Metropolis years and
watch Tower in full effect and all that. But look forward to the end of our Smallville countdown here and thanks for listening. Take it away, Zach and Panel.
The Superman legend begins in a place called Smallville.
Do you ever feel like your life was supposed to be something different?
Secrets?
I don't want any record that I was here.
Loyalty, I never bet against Claire Kent betrayal.
What do you want the world?
Missus Kent Yestiny.
Maybe it's time I stop running from who I really am.
Now you can every Action Pack Episode two. Are you plus never before seen Bonus features small Ville pone seasons one through six on DBD.
Hello everyone, this is Matthew Rocca and I'm here to discuss the incredibly epic episode of season six Smallville, that is Justice. It's great to be here, even from my fortress of solitude. I just had a few, well a lot of things to discuss with the episode Justice. I
love it. It's one of my favorite Smallville episodes. So one of the first things that hit me when I was rewatching it was, well, I mean, this is something that I always think about when I ever watched this episode, and even when I saw it the way back in I think it was two thousand and six or seven when it aired, this hit occurred to me even back then. It's just the idea that Smallville had really come into its own as a comic book show at this point.
And what I mean by that is that, you know, season one through season two was more about the relationships. It was more about Clark and his parents, Clark and Laana, Clark and Lex and all these beautiful relationships that formed the foundation of the show. So it was more of a relationship drama, and it was more it happened to have superpowers in it, But that wasn't like the draw I guess. I mean, maybe it was for a lot
of people. For me, it wasn't because, as I've said numerous times, I didn't know anything about comic books at that time. But as a show progressed, I found this really interesting progression. And me and my buddy, who love you know, he's not so into comic book stuff anymore. I still am, but we grew up loving this stuff. And me the observation while ago that when the show aired, had just the way that Smallwood kind of become like
a niche comic book thing for comic book fans. And because when you get to I guess you could say past season four, and you start getting into like season five, you get you know, Brainiac, and you get all these different sci fi elements and Linel Possessed and you know Zod and you know, all these different things that tap really into the mythology. Well like that the Fortress of Solitude. I've said this before, but season five was kind of
like this huge turning point in that way. So then you get around into season six and it's like Clark is going out there, He's fighting phantoms, owners, dealing with Oliver Queen, and here we finally have the formation of
the Justice League. And I feel like this episode just really it felt like this understanding from the show almost that this is what they are here now on television to do, Like they had their own niche thing to do back when it was like the beginning of the show and the WB and all the wholesome magic of
that which was so beautiful. And now the show has evolved so much, and the network had evolved, and the times had started to, you know, shift a little bit a little bit more in favor of comic books, though
not that much. Small Ville was still kind of paving the way for that, but it seemed like at this point, Justice was like this revelation almost of like, Aha, this is what Smallville's role is right now, this is what we do best now, better than anyone on TV or at that time, better than even anything in the movies in terms of comic books in my opinion. So it was like it there was no Lana in this episode. And I don't say that to disparage Christian Kruic or
Lana or anything like that. I know a lot of people like pick On Lana as a character, but it did feel kind of like, you know, in season six, she was kind of her character was shoehorned into a lot of plots, and it became a little bit tiresome, especially with the whole you know, lex of it all, because for Lexo, it's like his development was he had this great downward spiral in season five that was really paving the way for comic book lex and it was awesome.
And then he's with Lana in season six, and at the beginning of season six it is kind of like, I don't know where this is going, but just then you get Justice. It's like, Okay, Lana's in Paris with Nell shopping for a wedding dress. You know, lex just has that little throwaway line, and it just to me is kind of like the writers just being like, all right, none of the Laana nonsense, none of the drama, you know, relationship drama. Nope, that's not what this episode is about.
This whole thing. It's all about the comic bookness of it all. We've got the Justice League, got the evil lex Luthor thirty three point one, like boom, let's go.
I love that this episode brings back Bart and it brings back Arthur, and it brings back Victor, and that Oliver is the leader of this whole thing, and it really struck me as very batman esque in that way, you know, Oliver being the man with the resources and you know, sort of the do whatever it takes kind of mentality like that, you know, And so I really loved that about the episode. I loved that again so all it was so ahead of its time, and I
just love to point that out. This was way like before MCU, right, and you had Smallville doing this concept of slowly introducing characters in different episodes and slowly building up to the formation of the team. They did that way before MCU. They did that way before or you know, anything like that was really being done in movies or TV. It was really just such an interesting, like exciting time to be a fan of all this stuff and for Smallville to really be like the trail Blazer like that,
it was really incredible. It was also great because every episode that introduced one of the heroes before, you really got to know the character, and I felt like each actor was perfectly cast as that role, and you know, you almost felt like they were family, like you really got to know them in just in one episode. For each of them, you got to kind of love their character, and so when they all came together, it was like, Oh,
this is so cool. It's like that, you know, a family for a family outside of a family for Clark, like people who have abilities like him, who aren't meteor freaks, who aren't going off and killing people. You know, it's a bunch of like minded people who want to help the world, and that was really awesome. I love that Lex is the threat that they all have to come
together to stop. To me, it really solidified the idea that Lex is officially the villain of the story at this point in the series, and that was so much fun. You know. Thirty three point one plot was one of my favorite subplots of the show, and I'm really glad that they didn't just drop it in season four like they originally planned to, but they brought it back and had Lex be really like the start of like evil
mad scientists mastermind. Lex was thirty three point one to me, and just seeing the psychopathic neglect of human lives, even if they're meteor freaks, the callousness that he was had to just throw them in these cells and be building like an army, as Oliver says, to start a war. It was just like, Wow, he's gone off the deep end. And I love it because it's totally comic book Lex, and I love that. That's what brought the Justice League
together for this mission. On that note, rewatching it, one of the things struck me as really comical and you know, kind of a disservice in a way to Clark, but was just how Clark was written in the episode at times that he was kind of a jerk to you know, he didn't give Bart a chance, just like, oh, you're stealing from Lex, you know, and like Clark knows what Lex is like now, you know, So he was kind of sanctimonious to him a little bit, and then you know,
he then storms in and yells it all over, and then Oliver puts him in his place and reminds him about thirty three point one, and later on Clark kind of just barges into thirty three point one right into the media rocks. The group has to save him, and then even after they save him, he's kind of like, I don't know, he kind of has this attitude where it's like only if he says, it's okay, well, they blow up the building, you know, even though he hasn't
been part of the team. So me and my mom were rewatching it and we were kind of laughing, like, who does Clark think he is? You know, he hasn't even been part of this team, you know, But it's fine, it's funny. It is keeping in character with Clark as we've seen him in the show. And you know, he is still young, he's still kind of immature at certain points. He's trying to do the right thing, but he's flawed, you know, He's views the world and still this kind of black and white way.
I like that.
I like that, you know, it foreshadows some of the conflict that they'll have amongst him and Oliver and the Justice League later in the show, which is nice. And I do think that Clark's naive way of looking at the world is very much like Superman's strength and his weakness.
So I really did like that this episode really promised something big with Clark in the Justice League, and it is too bad that in season seven, like that kind of just didn't turn into anything for much of it, because the end of this episode is like, oh yeah, you know Clark's gonna join them soon and then we had to wait like a whole other season for anything with that. But it's cool, you know, as an episode
just self contained, it works really well. You know, when we got to see the teamwork of all of them as they break into three three point one, to see to remind the audience what each of their abilities is and how they're each an asset to the team, was really cool and it was done very like effortlessly, it seemed, which as a writer myself, I don't know, it's kind of difficult to showcase. Okay, here's what this character does
really well, here's what this character does. This is how it helps the plot, This is how it helps their mission, and just showing it like boom, boom boom like that. It's actually kind of difficult to do, and I love that the episode just did that so effortlessly, like, Okay, here's why Aquaman works in this universe. Here's what he does. Boom, Here's what Cyborg does. He you know, is able to shut down the electricity and this and that, you know,
it's great. I love that, you know, going back to the Luthers for a second, I also love Lionel's role in the episode. Big surprise coming from me, I know, but I really love how Lionel is working with Lex. At the beginning of the episode, there's this this really awesome,
like this great little, like subtle character moment. Lionel is chastising Lex for being careless about thirty three point one if it ever came out that people with abilities were being tested at Luther Court, and then Lex completely dismisses him and shows him that photo of what you know, Lionel thinks as Clark, but it's the flash and Lex has that great faster than a sweeding bullet line and he's so cavalier and just like he's gonna make a
great test subject for thirty three point one, don't you think. Come on, let's go protect our asset. And he walks out, and it's such a great moment because it's like, to me, it just again shows the audience how far the tables have turned with these characters. Lex is completely in control, no lot the master, and he's surpassing the Master now in a way, and it's like Lionel is the one who's nervous, not sure if they're gonna get away with
this all of that stuff. I love that. I also love how Lionel is in this difficult sort of position where he's protecting Luther Corp. You know, his company, like that he still doesn't want I think he doesn't want public shame or disgrace about what thirty three point one is all about to get out there. It's like he's protecting his company. He's kind of protecting Lex in a way, but he's also protecting Clark, so he's kind of doing this double agent thing. And I love how that comes
back later in Full Circle. You know, there's that moment when Clark barges in, he yells at Lionel he like usual, and then Lionel has that moment where he tells Clark like, we don't need to play games, Clark, or you know, if you're gonna keep playing games like this, And it seems like it would be a normal like Lionel threat, but then instead he's very fatherly and just like you should be more careful, and he's giving Clark that warning
don't mess with Lex kind of thing. And then at the very end, the very end scene between Lionel and Lex is one that me and my mom quote endlessly because We think it's one of the funniest scenes when Lionel pulls out that lie out of nowhere, when Lex is questioning him about Clark, and Lionel just out of nowhere says, Clark was with Nea Martha last night. We had new potatoes and teeny tiny little baby carrots. Pot
roast was delicious. Clark, he had three helpings, and Lex just has that face like, WTF is he telling the truth or is this another BS lie from Lionel. You know, It's just such a great moment. It's hilarious. So yeah, I love all the character interactions of this episode. There's a lot of big stuff happening. There's a lot of set pieces and action and comic book stuff, but it's counter balanced really well with the characters that we love in the show and the character moment. It's like that.
So I think that's why this is such a great episode. It balances the action with the characters nicely. It develops Clark further in his journey and develops Lex further in his journey. It just reminds us really like what the show is about now in the more adult direction, the more comic book direction too, that it's starting to take. So I think Justice worked really well. Got to give it up to everyone involved with the episode, the direction
of it, the writing, the acting. So thank you so much for letting me be part of this episode podcast. It's a wonderful episode, and thank you guys for listening.
Small vill Season six on DVD Tuesday. The forces of evil are gathering. I will let you destroy her and the fight.
For Justice begins with bonus features that take you deep into the legend.
A Small Villa own season six on DVD and high Depth Tuesday.
All right, I hope you all enjoyed our discussion on justice. And we never see these guys again in this configuration, even in this configuration plus others past this episode, which makes it so unique and iconic, and yes we do get obviously, the Green Arrow goes on to be a main character for the last three seasons of the show.
We see Cyborg on a screen in season nine. We do see a little bit more of Acca Man in a couple more episodes, and Impulse is unfortunately just in doomsday after this, and then his picture appears a lot. All these guys pictures appear a lot on screens and in files. But to have this team go on a superhero adventure altogether, something that we never see again on Smallville, so Justice stands alone. But we've been tracking the bangers.
The needle drops right. The pop music of Smavel just as important as anything else on this show, at least to me watching it at the time. And I know to any of you the music was there one in this episode, And had you asked me back in two thousand and seven when this episode came out, I would have said, I don't know. But revisiting it for the podcast proper and rewatching it over the years. High and Low by Greg Laswell, the song that plays during Oliver
and Lois's breakup scene. It's kind of funny that we had these independent voice messages from three of our panel numbers and to hear them talk about certain scenes, and some of them say one thing about a scene, and some of them say the total opposite about a scene. But I think about Lois and Oliver's breakup scene, Victoria was a little amused by it and Matt was very emotionally moved by it, but I think they both came
to the same conclusion that you know at CW. But it really works for the two of them, But this song plays in the background of that scene, and it's one that you know, I've added to my playlist and listened to now since I've recovered the episode, and it's solid. You know, I get it's not one that I put on a burn CD back in the day. That's kind of my litmus test for if it was one of those back in the day. But it's the only song
that plays in this episode. But it's a very good pop song, very melancholy, captures the feel of what that scene was between Oliver and Loewis breaking up, and to me, that counts as a banger for our list keeping track. So again, I hope y'all enjoyed our conversation. Stay tuned next week to find out which episode is the number one episode of Smallville as voted by you the listeners.
Our pedal discussion format will return for that conversation, but until then, Always hold on to Smallville, Always to Smallville as part of the Always Hold On To network of podcasts and brought to you by listeners like you, Chris Fuchs, Cavante, Chillis, Joey Deenberg, in Seon, Cory Moore, Nathan Ropatcher, Isaiah Goodrich, Tief Shek, John Curcio, Markidz, Foppin, Patricia Carrillo, Rhythm Camillion, Jim Crawford, Casey Vatch, Marie Humphrey, Alex Hamilton, Matt Douglas,
Daniel Curiel, Merril Smith, Teffas Hull, Matt be Amy, Jy, Mike Franz, Martin, Ryan, Nathan McKenzie, Steve Rogers, Molly Facilla, James Lee, Jason Davis, Patrick Bravo, Alex Ramsey, Tay Tay, Rob O'Connor, Tina b Jake, Jacob, Darren, kirsht Dyland, Antonio, Nick Ron Magdoza, Ednie Bissell, Nicholas Fansler, John Long, Ruth Anne Haymond, Travis Kill, Mike Thomas, Nina, Jay, Gordon, Bond Bay, Michael h Laura Dosriels Ar Djdwinna, Nicholas Coso, Jared Gibbs,
Anthony Anderson, Keith Falls, James Hart, Anthony Deciato, Crystal Cross, Karen Kumar, and Lorenzo Valdez. Thank you so much to all these patrons and YouTube can become a patron at going to Patreon dot com, Slash always Maulville with one S hope to see you there. Always Hold onto Smallville's theme music is by Lance Laster and our podcast art
is by Tom Gurky. You can follow us on Twitter at always Malville with one S, You can find us on Facebook at always hold on to Smallville, and you can send us an email at always Maulville at gmail dot com. Once again, with one S, thanks for listening.