Top 10 Episodes: #10 Lexmas

And this is Michael Rosenbaum Alex Luthor, and you're listening to Always hold On to Smallville.

Welcome to Always hold On to Smallville. In this podcast, we've talked about each and every episode of the Young Superman show that ran from two thousand and one to twenty eleven on the WB and the C. I'm our host Sachmore, and we're back with our next installment in the top ten episodes. That's right, the top ten episodes of Smallville as voted by you the listeners. Now we

Huh my dad, No, this is your life?

So Lex Luthor the finest man I know.

I've never been happier all.

This can be yours if you make the right choices.

What happened?

Lexmuths a small Ville Christmas?

Followed by Everwood on the WB Thursday.

We're talking about Lexmis. Lexmis is not on my top ten list? Lance, Is Lexmis on your top ten list?

It was not?

Okay, Victoria, is Lexmus on your top ten list?

That's a note for me, dog Matt Truix.

Is Lexmis on your top ten list?

No, it was not.

Broca, is it on your top Apparently.

I'm the only one, and I was all excited. I was like, this is a lot everyone's top ten every loves Lexsmith.

I'm also looking at my list right now and realizing I might have been in a certain state of mind.

There are a lot of topics that are very interesting I think that are worth discussing, like the existence of Santa Claus and the small of the universe. Apparently that's canon Santa exists.

That's interesting that I have a lot to say about that. Yeah, I'm in favor. Okay, cool, let's go.

So Lexmith, it's not on my list? This is actually one. I don't know if the VCR messed up that night Lance and I were living in college together in the dorms. I don't think I recorded this one. Maybe I was out doing something. I didn't see it until they came out on DVD.

Are you like Home for Christmas?

Wait?

You know that might have been it. That is an excellent point, Matt, But I didn't see this one until they came out on DVD. I saw all the stuff online, like, look, it's Cooly with long hair, and Clark with a scarf and Jonathan with glasses and lot is pregnant. I'm like, okay, what is this?

Those are my key takeaways from the episode as well.

Jonathan's hair as well. Jonathan's hair looks like bo Duke era.

He looks incredible, Yes, season five. John Schneider on point, all right, Yeah, maybe that's why this one never really stuck with me. But it's one of those And being a big Star Trek fan, I kind of thought about this as well. If you look at like everybody started Star Trek episodes, there are always these alternate universe time travel kind of what if stuff, stuff you don't get

Well, I do love the episode. It was not on my list, but it was an honorable mention, so I gave it some credit. But I think you're kind of missing the bigger issue with the episode, and it's it's a Christmas episode. Everybody loves Christmas specials, so and especially me, I'm a sucker for Christmas specials of any kind. So that's why I was really really digging in this episode. You got to see a different side of Lex. You get to see his intermost desire, and you could see

Great Victoria, what do you think about Lexmis Why is it one of your favorite episodes or is.

It it's it's not. I'm just gonna be real with y'all. I detest Lexana.

Yes, even fantasy Lexana.

Fantasy Lexana, and I'm going to tell you why, and I'm going to bring down the mood for a minute. But I had a major death of my family on Christmas Eve, so I like, I can kind of relate. So it was kind of like, oh, because I hadn't seen the episode since I watched it in like two thousand and five, I did watch this one, Zach. You might have missed it, but I remember watching it and being like.

What is going on?

But it was really.

Interesting revisiting it and being able to empathize with lex in a different way, because like if it's like I could put myself in the what if, like if I was able, and it made me feel for him, like yeah, if I'd known that I was going to lose someone like this, And at tragerway on Christmas Eve, I really understood his choice of being like, uh no, if fat, I'm not going to make these choices, mom, angel, and.

I'm going to go back and do that.

It was.

It's so interesting though, because as much as I detest Lexana.

I wanted more of it.

I really did not enjoy the Clark schmaltziness of the Santa of it all, and like as much like I don't know if you guys have gleaned from my episodes on always hold on to Smallville proper, but I love like either like taking clothes off of Tomwelling or putting him in outfits. So as much as TIME love Tom Welling and like a Christmas look, I just I didn't like the whole Santa Claus plot.

I thought it was cute that they had him like.

Delivering presents and he could do that because of his powers, but I think the whole like magical. I think there was just too much like magical realism going on with like the It's a Wonderful lifeness with lex and then like the Santa's Reel with Clark, and I just wish there was honestly more lex And I thought it was a great episode, especially for John Glover as well as Lionel, but it's not one of my favorites, and it wasn't one of my favorites regardless of my own personal stuff.

And I don't feel like the episode did it full out.

Those are some great points of Victoria. I think there's too much going on magically, like you have ghost Mom who can showlex the future, and also Santa Claus I can't. It's like the Twilight Zone rules, just like the unwritten rule of Twilight Zone was like you can have one weird.

Second, yeah, or make Santa a meteor freak, okay, operate within the structure of the show that you have had for five seasons.

I'm just picturing sat, the drunken Santa Claus being doing one of the meteor freak you don't know what it's like to grow up.

I would kind of love that, though, I would kind of love that.

That's great.

These green rocks. I was living in the North Pole, all right, and these green rocks came down from the sky and destroyed my home.

Guys, No, but it tracks, it tracks the Fortresses Solitude. I don't know fortress the Solitude was meant to be. I will be writing fanfic, yes, But.

It's like the Twilight Zone rules of weirdness where it's like, Okay, you can do time travel, but you can't do aliens and time travel, or you can't do like ghosts and time travel. You do ghosts, right, So that's that was That's like the issue with this one, not not that it like because they were completely separate from each other, like the fact that sand Exists had nothing to do with with Mama Lionel Mama, what's Lily and Luther? Yeah, and then and the Daughter Lily like comics.

No, nothing has anything to do with anything. It's just all here.

So those are all those are all great points for story. So so so Trux, You're you're next up. What are your thoughts on Lexmus and why do you hate it.

Yeah, I love this episode. I always like seeing them play different sides of these characters. So just the idea of like super happy, like actually genuine lex for a whole, like he's got no pretense on him. He is just a normal dude, and it's so nice to just kind of see that. For a second, I was all kind of thinking, like, you know, you do the plots of an episode. I was like, is this it's a wonderful life? I guess it kind of is.

Kind of that. And also Christmas Carol too.

That totally, but also there's a bit of like for the man who has everything in here too, and just kind of the way that the fantasy lays out. Obviously it's very different mechanis is't.

But also that movie that I didn't see but I know of a Nicholas Cage called The Family Man, Well he wakes.

Up family many Like, oh no, it is.

It's like I think Nicholas Cage is like a high powered businessman and he wakes up and he's like a suburban dad, which is also this episode.

Okay, not to be confused with the weather Man with Nicholas Cage was also came in around the same time. Very confusing. But yes, this is clearly movie plot. Is an episode, I can all agree, but it's it's the shades of everything. That's four movie plots.

It's that. And and to defend their choices for a second, like if we're taking the magical realism for granted here, I like the idea of these two American or at least like heavily americanized icons kind of existing together. Like for me, that's just like almost the old guy in town scoping out the new talent, you know, like just Santus shopping by before he's Superman. If we're looking at it in like that weird Grant Morrison level of meta text reality, I kind of like the idea.

So, roka, this is on your top ten list, man, So representpresentator, tell us why it deserves a spot on the top ten list.

All right, all right, all right, so lexmis For me, it was so interesting and different to see Lex at his most human really, and especially at that point in the show I thought was really interesting, like the placement of that, because if it was like season one or season two, it maybe wouldn't have been as fascinating or tragic because we already knew Lex is just like this

In what way.

I would go up to people I don't know what I was talking about in high school and I'd be like, he may be a big fish in the water, but up here, I'm sure my best friend back to he'd be like, is that another Lex quote?

I'd be like, oh God, this makes me sad. I wish I had more small vel friends growing up.

I was.

I would have been there for you.

I know, if we knew each other in high school, we'd all be quoting this together. But yeah, so no, it was To me it was a great episode because it was really fun and interesting to see, uh Lex where he was at that point that's sort of like in between transition point where he was almost a villain but he wasn't quite there yet, And he was in that spot where he almost could go back to being

A that's like the tragedy of the series for him, is it? You know, just the idea that he's always got. There's that dangling carrot of like I could be a good man. He could, he could not choose this path of super villainy at any point. But we just key and make mistake and mistake and mistake and mistake. I'm so glad we got into this so quick. But yeah, that it was just it's heartbreaking at the end because you know that he couldn't have that way.

Yeah, but then it's also just like the tragedy of the show and the premise of the show. And I know some people say that the show went on too long, but it was nice to have that time to explore Lex's journey in downward spiral because I think if this was just a guy named Alexander Luthor, he would have chosen like the right thing to do maybe, or he

Yeah, I think with Lex, he is a man of extremes, so he totally he could not have gone either way. But when he's presented with his choice of Okay, I can do the right thing and have happiness for like seven years, or I could do what I was going to do anyway, hold on to my money in power and then figure it out when that happens. I think, I don't know, I probably would have done that because it's like, Okay, if I have the money in power, then I can solve this. We'll figure that when we

Also because I think he gives a really good reason to what he's talking to Lillian, where it's not just like the future of it all.

He also brings up this past. He's like, everyone I love has died and this is gonna happen to me.

Yeah, and that's not to say, because I'm living it right now that you can't find happiness after you lose a loved one, but like, yeah.

It was.

And I was like, oh, that is kind of a good point. Like I do kind of see where you're coming from with this.

Yeah, it feeds to the good guy's side of him and the makelamonoacle like I have to control every part of my life side of him too.

Yeah, it's it's really Yeah, it really does play off of both. And yeah, and also Victoria, what you're saying is kind of why I think the episode works. So well, and it's in such a self contained way. And even though it was cool, like later on when they confirmed that it was real, I think it, I know, works in a way. I mean that's a whole other discussion, but like I think it kind of works better as like maybe it's an ambiguous vision because it's his psychology kind of way, you know.

Yeah, yeah, it's all like a dream.

Oh yeah, it's definitely ambitious and just the whole thought of like you know, Lex literally gets paradise for a day, it's just so sad, like the choices he makes after that, you know, it's it's you know, it kind of reminds me of Buffy, Like you know, when Buffy dies, he goes to heaven and then she gets yanked back. You feel for somebody like that, it's like, how do you recover when you've from from from an experience like that?

Man Luthor plan to see like the happiest you could ever be and then have it all ripped away is a terrible, terrible feeling. And then and then you're chasing it. You're just chasing it for pretty much the rest of your life, trying to recapture it, trying to micromanage everything. It's kind of like, this is I just thought about this now. It's like fifty first dates right with Adam Sandler trying to yeah.

At the end every time, But he's ignoring the key part of the vision, like Lilian's key message to him, or and what Lana says to him is just like after you got shot, that was like the best thing that happened to you because that was the moment that you did this. So just fundamentally, he's ignoring the fact that no, like today was the day I was supposed to change, not today, it was the day I was supposed to do the same thing I was gonna do in that alley if I didn't get a bullet.

Well, Clark has the same problem in season five. He's like he gets the choice to repeat the day when Lana gets killed and then his dad gets killed instead. So I mean, like again, I would do this, like, and I mean, you're in the moment, you're gonna make stupid decisions. You're like, Okay, well I know if I do this, that's gonna happen. So I'm gonna not do that. I'm gonna do the opposite of that and then figure it out later. So it is tragic, and it's a

Yeah, well it's equally tragic for both of them because they are the mirrors of each other with.

This episode, Like they're older and they're like, I'm so glad that you got with Lana, Lex and that we could both stay good friends.

Like, oh oh, how the hell did that happen?

I feel like the writers were asking themselves that though.

Can I just say like and just like, if we're making a joke, no one will get mad at us.

Well.

The awkward The awkward thing about that though, is like at the end, he's like, I love you, Lana. I probably tell you that all the time. I don't know, but I love you, like, oh, that's that's that's a nice moment, right, I probably tell you that all the time. But then he says I've always loved you. I'm like creepy creek, creep great be now it's bad again.

Did anybody else have the trading cards for the show and something? Okay, well, no.

I feel like I'm not a real small though fan.

Now oh no, please don't like I didn't. I never knew what to do with trading cards. My mom kept buying them for me, which I'm complaining because my mother loved me.

Where were these? And what did you like? A combook store? Because I hadn't. I haven't seen these?

Yeah, yeah, like my mom must have found a site. When I was a kid, like every Christmas I would get the last season's backs of cards or whatever. But they were there were cards that were like the love or like the couples, the love interests. In season one, there is a Lana and Lex card and I remember as a kid going like, that's weird that this would be a card, And then like six years later, it's like the cards knew Oh my god, yeah they knew. It blew my mind.

It's literally in this statutory rape. How stef exactly.

Exactly if this existed, If this show existed at this time with everything happening, do you think that all that stuff would be way more creepytal. No. But I just want to say I hate. I want to agree with Victoria on something, but defend it. In this case for Lexmus, so I agree with Victoria, I hate. I hate Lexana in season six. At the time when season six happened,

I like it.

But in the case of Lexmith, I just I agree with you. It would be cool to see even more of it. But I really liked it in Lexmis because because it was to me, it felt like the most genuine that you see Michael Rosenbaum with an actress, and I mean romantically and the most genuine see Christian romantic, even though of course you know we all love probably Klada from season one or whatever, but like just the two of him felt like a really like genuine.

I like the season one distinction, very good match one.

Oh god, but Rock I totally get you well, because it's in this one. It's a different Lex. It's literally a different.

Lex, yeah, exactly.

And Lana feels like she's on drugs the whole time, like she.

Is just happiest pregnant woman I've ever.

Right, she listens to all these stories and like, honey, you tell me every year you'd listen to that whole thing with a smile, not an eye roll. Like, this is weird.

It's interesting to hear of my take on this, I Lex. It's weird because he's always kind of had a thing for Lona on certain levels, you know, even back in like Nicodemus in season one it was some kind of like she was coming on to him and that. But in the Whipped Cream Mom and all that kind of stuff.

To be fair on Lex, who winn't at that episode though?

But well, I mean she was fifteen and he was like twenty two or something. So yeah, yeah, I think.

He always feels older than he I mean all they all do. But yeah, the way they play his character.

Were supposed to be five or six years older than Clark, so he's like twenty he's like twenty one, twenty two d and the Rose of Mom is like, you know, ten years older than that. But so it was willing, right, but the Lexana thing really didn't start properly until after this, And it's kind of like one of those things where like he kind of got it in his head from this, you know, like, oh, that was a great fantasy life I love with Lona. Let me pursue that in the real world.

Yeah, And it's it's interesting because, like you're right, it's like they kind of like really ramped it up after this, but before even before this though, there's all these hints throughout, like you know, the first four seasons and especially you know in season four during Onyx. However, if they were ever gonna do Lexana, it should have it's been a one off and it should have just been this like

Seeing this episode after Elseworlds have really reminded me of Steven mil waking up as Barry Allen. You know, he's with Iris and it's really awkward, and that reminded me of Rosenbaum here with the line he's like Lana, Dad, what's going on?

You know?

He like kisses head He's like whoa you know, So that kind of reminded me of that. And plus they have that goofy music like whatever they're doing, like.

Mark Snow is off the charge.

No, it's it's the it's the Hallmark Channel Christmas movie music. That's exactly what that is.

It is.

Also, can we talk about, like we've discussed how like happy like on Drugs Lana was. That was like also the best behaved little baby in the world, like the little.

Son He's like dad hours, I'd be like, yeah, kids sound great. If like that's what they really are. Like, if that's what that was my experience with the child, I'd be.

Like, cool, they seem easy, no wonder, Yeah, even like Clark has Clark has that line too of like you've got a great son, and like part of me is like, that's weird to say.

You know, let's talk about this for a minute. Lois is not in this episode. So it's implied, Okay, I mean it's really it's implied that Clark and Coli together. They're at the Christmas Tree place together'use I got her arm around her. They're both working the Daily Planet?

Do they not say as much? I like watching it. I always assume that.

The stuff, but it's it's there because they're going to shop for Christmas Tree together. Right, they're together and they're not married or anything. There's no rings or anything like that. But I thought that was interesting. I want to live in that universe for Clark and cooling up together.

Right.

But here's here's a fan theory for you. So Clark got his powers back at the beginning of the season. What they had exchange for somebody's life, you know, And so I guess Lois is the one who ended up dying in this in this future, right, because that had to be rectified, right, and that's why I.

Ended up four?

Or or did she just shack up with Oliver Queen because like, is.

It a butterfly effect thing too?

Here?

Like Lex Luthor going good just changes anything in the DC universe around them.

I guess so. Although, and let's talk about reckoning for a second. Remember Lois like gets electrocuted or something and Clark saves her upstairs at the Talon. Had that not happened, then maybe Jonathan wouldn't have died, you know what I'm saying. So Clark people forget that little moment of Clark saving somebody, so we'll talk about butterfly flag and all that stuff. Anyway.

Well, best opportunity, missed opportunity.

That does go to a theory that it's all on Lex's head too.

Well, yeah, Clark. Is he superman?

Is he not?

Right?

Yeah, totally right, because this all could very well just be like Lex's best guess at the future at this point.

Well, and then the the the other theory is kind of like like what you said that, Like what if Le's going good? Like does that change the whole DC universe? Like if Lex is good, is there? Does Clark become superman like in Smallville universe or not? Or does he or is he just Clark Kent doing good stuff?

Would they do say that he is a reporter at the Daily Planet? And then, Zach, do you just want to take a moment about like finally seeing Chloe and Clark realize I.

Think that way?

Yeah, yeah, I mean that that's this is the closest you're ever going to get, like basically like living this life together. She's publishing a book, He's a reporter. I'm like, this is the future. This is what's gonna happen, guys when Lois dies and Chloe takes her name. Okay, this is all this is all predicting the future. See it's right here, where's she's gone? You know? So if you know, if this is if Reddit was around in two thousand and five. The threads on this would be I mean

Oh my god, what is the clothes thing?

It's like nine hundred pages. I was like, oh my god, that was a but see episodes like this, like see it's the Future Worst Lowest together right board.

You know.

Anyway, at the time, at the time when it aired, I remember my theory, but it was totally wrong. But but I wrote fanfic kind of based around that. But like the theory was like in my head at the time was like, oh, maybe what they're implying is like if Lex didn't go bad, Chloe would still be alive. And maybe what they're implying is Lex is going to kill her. That was my theory, you know, And I was like, oh, but that was what I predicted it. Oh, maybe she's gonna die. And that's why Lark and lowis.

My favorite unresolved mystery. The whole show, I kept waiting for her to die. They just knew at some in like a good way, and then it would project him forward. But you know, that's where it felt like they were going It felt like it was going to be important.

We've never heard of any Chloe Sullivan and we're from the thirty first century. Does the Santa plot bring things down? Was that necessary? Like, I know we're kind of talking about like all the weirdness aside take out the fact there's like magical stuff going on on both ends, Like is the fact that we have to waste time with Santa Claus?

I hate it?

Yes, yes, I hate it so much. It does slow the episode down.

I just feel like they do it they went two steps too far. First of all, I just think they should have had Clark delivering presence like having I thought it was fun that he was being Santa. Also because I know what it's like to be on like the low rung at work and like overcompensate to get people to take you seriously. So when Chloe was like, I doubled, I got all the presents and now I have six.

Hours to deliver them.

And also, you know what I freaking loved about this episode that Chloe actually used Clark for help instead of Clark just being like Chloe, look this up, Chloe, I find this, Chloe.

That's true.

I was like it really is an alternate universe.

But I just like I thought it was really cute that he was like delivering the presence. I was like, oh, okay, that's cute. But then the fact that the Santa of it all, or even if it was like a drunk guy, some drunk mal Santa, I was like, I can still do this.

I can still do this.

And then when he was actually magic, I was like, oh, yeah.

That's that's that's where they overstepped. And it was just like, you know, like a drunk mal Santa who was just like kind of discouraged at Christmas time and Clark kind of like inspires him that they were still good in the world. He just goes on about his day. That would have been fine, but like they just took it a step too far by having him actually be Santa magically like wooshing all the all the stuff away, like that that was just a step too.

Far, and that they talked about it so much.

Sorry, and then the fact that they freaking talked about it, and like was like, I think it really posed Sanna okay.

And clear yep, I agree that was too much.

There's an episode of swas On called Night of the meek, and it's about a mall Santa who's like down. I was like, he's an alcoholic. He gets his magic bag, he gets people gifts, and then he becomes Santa at the end. Uh sort of. So anyway, check it out. I recommend it. And that's the kind of the vibe I got from that. But I agree she should have just been like Superman giving people hope, you know, just a normal guy. Although it's funny here Santa clausa they bitch and they bitch and they bitch.

I know.

I like that he was like drunk Santa Claus first, and then when he shows up with the Daily Planet later, it's like a little more cleaned up. It felt like, you know, they were a little more coff Santa.

He got he got magic sober.

Yeah, yeah, the magic you know, the magic dirt fell away.

I always I always get a creepy, creepy vibe from that from that scene, even though it's like, I know he's supposed to be saying, but just him visiting Chloe in the Daily Planet all at night, Yeah, like chuckling like Lionel like on this Sullivan and I was like, oh, kind of creepy.

I had a thought now that that scene inspired him, like you need like a like some kind of serial killer movie or guys, just like Santa visits people on Christmas even like vulnerable, Like this is a serial killer vibe from this guy. So you wanted to be a meteor free Victoria. This is where this leads. Okay, this is where this leads.

It's a perfect setup. Are we are we all of that same age? Where we or is this just me as a kid? Did you guys all see that like Dean Koon's like book with a creepy Santa, like when like this.

I don't remember that, but just thinking about this, like watching a couple of years kringle By directed by Jordan Peele is gonna come out and it's gonna be this.

Chloe's reaction when Santa shows up though, like she does like the cute little like Santa the alpha game to way and then gets to it like why are you here?

Keeps up?

Now you're just this strange man? What's going on?

Now?

I'm reaching for my mace and I'm two seconds away from.

You know, watching bathroom I thought you were gonna see like her look out the window and then see like some reindeer or something when it's.

Her jingles or hell, jingle bells or anything. But we didn't hear any Like, we didn't hear any bells or like or anything or hoofs. Nothing.

It was just no fl.

Flight, no tights, the roles of Manna's not exempt, no.

No one talking about the Christmas party at the end of the can's the real one? Right? What is Lana wearing? It's snowy outside and actually, yeah, well the both of them, but especially reind me of for season four clothes.

Wait, can I can I be like, can I be thirsty for a second and like offer the female perspective here?

Please?

So if I was like if that was my boyfriend, I would be like, oh, I'm so cold, like with your big strong arm ORMs around me. So I like totally got that move, like.

Respect fair enough, I understood.

Because I noticed that too.

Was the only one comfortable on set too.

No, it just reminded me of those season four outfits she's wearing. She had is this tattoo she doesn't want anyone to see? Yet she continues to wear these clothes that show offer tattoos.

She wants no one right, so let me wear backless clothes for halving up.

Me and my mom always uh, because you know, we were We're always the best Small Bill friends, you know. She she's going to introduce me to the show as a as a kid growing up, and so we'd always watch it and we'd always make fun of that and season a lot of it. Oh you saw my tattoo? And yeah, you're.

Wearing a crop top like.

You literally just got out of the shower. I saw the tattoo.

Yes, that reminds me, though, She says at the first scene with her and Clark, she's like, usually just me and Nell for Christmas, really, because I haven't seen Nell in like three years.

Off Screenville act off screen.

Yeah, say Christmas stuff. Thank you for giving me a real Christmas. Your aunt raised you. Your parents are dead, show some respect. We're seninry small when you need them nowhere, all right, where's Koe's dad? All right? Coe's all her dad has. And she's like, Oh, I forget it, dad, I'm working double shift to the Daily Planet. These are terrible families, and Small Family was bad. Everyone is terrible

That was a great That was a great moment.

But then I was also like I was just on the ride of the fantasy because if I was literally about to pop and my husband couldn't do the freaking car seat, I would be like, I'm reevaluating a lot of decisions.

But no, it was. It was really perfect.

That was such a great moment and done by both of them where he was like, oh no, like I have to Yeah.

I feel like that was a Michael Rosenbaum like messing around with the kid behind the scenes luper.

Oh yeah for sure, Yeah, for sure. I have a friend of mine like who is terrible with it. He just refuses to do it, like he has a kid, but like he refuses to like install it so just permanently in this car, like just set up like he hasn't got rid of it. It's just like it's hilarious.

Something else we talk about is Lionel. I was just gonna say, yeah, so why don't you guys take it away talk some lionel.

I think this is some of the coolest line will ever get. Like this is so like top notch, like very fairy tale. The way he's shot, but like it reminded me of like mister Potter and it's a wonderful life. And the way his hair is kind of slicked back, it's a little longer. It's just like it's an odd way to see him, but also very true too. And just obviously he's as cold as he's ever been in this scene. I love this line.

I agree. It was like when you see him in that moment, it was so like you said, fairy tale esque, is like way more to the point, he's not playing around. He's not you know, being like I canted to make you stronger. How you're either my son, he's just like no, like nobs, I'm gonna let your wife die boom, like just so cold, so evil and and and it made me wonder if this is a true version of events of how things could go in the future if Lex

I think that's a great point.

I also think it was just so delicious both in the quote unquote real world and are in the fantasy to see Lionel and then John Glover just so perfectly play grappling in both situations with these life and death stakes, and like since the stakes are so high, I think it was just like I don't know why I'm making it about food, but it was like it was like this is like a feast for both of them as actors, and like they like John Glover just always kills it and like yeah, because you you.

Under like you get kind of where he's got coming from, right, Yeah.

And the Wheel version where he's like operate and he's like and it's kind of like what Lex is saying. He's like, I'm just gonna have the resources. So if this is something like this does happen.

I can fix it.

Like Lionel kind of does that he's like, no, I'm airlifting my son to like the best hospital, and we're gonna take the chance. And you know, because that's Lionel that he's also like Linel like luthers don't do wheelchairs, but also like you can't see like the colonel of the father like fighting to like save his son. And then yeah, and then like in Fantasyland, and I love how you say it is because it is very fairy to like, and I love how that.

That confrontation scene between them is lit. It's like so stark and intent.

You see him just be like totally heartless, and it's just it's such an interesting because we've seen this dynamic before, but to see this like shade of it and to see this this like die like that dialect's not the right word, but to see this like little fracture of it was was really great and heartbreaking.

Yeah, excellent points about three of you'all. And now we're gonna make some comical observations. Yes, one, he gets shot in Grandville, Okay, so they don't take him to a Granville hospital or find a metropolis to take him to

Yeah, no way, I'm wheeling this kid around.

And then ironically, when if you go to Labyrinth in season six where Clark has his like whole fantasy headland, Lex is in a wheelchair, his leg's been amputated from the crocks, and you have Clark, So that's interesting. And then finally, why does Lionel not have a house? Like I understand they're on a budget and they can't, but he's why is seeing Luther Mansion all right? Which, by the way, I got a good look at that l There was no Veritas symbol there, all right, there it is the one.

Well see it's interesting, like you know, Lionel sitting there, like I mean, I think it's just to Lionel in the Luther Mansion just shows how powerful he is in

You're talking about the two Lexes, like, there's also the similarities between the two Luthers here, Like they're both making I'm talking real world Lex and real world Lionel here are both making these key life choices, decisions without really much thought beyond no, I'm a Luther, this is how I want it. I'm not compromising on anything here, And they're both making the same mistake, just proving the fact that Lex is a Luthor.

That's a really good point. And it's also interestingly like parallel to season one or no wait, season two when Lex had to make that choice for Lionel in the hospital blind right, and it was like, yeah, I.

Thought that as well. That was some nice symmetry there is.

That's a good.

And of course.

We both would have been wrong.

Yeah, I really I did. I did really like the very good this is this is the line over here, right, I really did like the last team in from Lex and Lionel was like, how dare you play god with my life? My good? I'm glad Lex found out that Lionel was going to let him die, Like he didn't even have an answer. He was like, what, what, how would you justified it if I had not lived? And I kind of tries to like back away and like

I wonder what, like do we have any did they ever talk either of them about those scenes where they do have to be that intense because like you know, we've all seen the bloopers where like they're really pally and jokey with each other when they're just doing like let's drink and figure out who has the power in

Like that's a great well.

I know they always they always talked about like the art of touching, like John Glover is gonna go like just like putting a hand on your shoulder, you know, that kind of thing that's a kind of Rosamom picked it up from him, and they're all just trying to out personal space invade each other. Yeah, I try to make it not sound that way, thank you, but but yeah, no, I that's what's great about the show, and they really do make the show.

Yeah.

Finally, last point here, Lexmus stupid title or brilliant title?

I thought it was brilliant. I thought I thought it was really cute and like, weirdly not a Smallville title. But that's why I like it. Like it's just it's not like it's a passive vortex are very right, like Yule Tide slave.

Well, and also it tells you everything you need to know about the episode. It's a Christmas special and it's centered around Lex, so I mean and obviously for like honestly, for a small vite Christmas episode, what else were you gonna call it?

I mean, you'll tired, you'll tie tonight.

So we get Al Golf and Miles Miller on the phone.

Guys, we found the one mistake.

This see I'm gonna I'm gonna roll with the dial, all.

Right, guys. Well, a lot of fun. Any final thoughts here? Anything you just were dying to mention that we didn't mention griff Guys. Griff Griffer goes on to play a Kryptonian in season nine and a police and a police captain on Arrow for like at least the first four or five years.

So as a jaded industry person, you gotta love a local Vancouver actor. You gotta love a local that you can just hire and not have to pay for and get that tax to be banned on.

What about you, Trix, what are your final thoughts?

I think it's my favorite Superman Christmas Eve thing, or at least the most rewatched for me as far as like Christmas tradition stuff.

Even more than the Howie Mandel Mister Mix's FLICA.

I marketly love that Lowis and Clark episode. I hate the one that Dean Kine wrote.

With the Jefferson.

I really like what is it called Yes? With the Jefferson. I really like comfort and joy from the animated stuff.

I watch Comfort Enjoy every Christmas Eve. It's part of my tradition, Like I watched that before I go to bed on Christmas Eve.

This is dark Christmas stuff for me. Like, I really liked this episode. I think it's my favorite, my favorite Superman Christmas thing, So gold Star.

What about you?

Rocca totally agreed. I think it's one of my Christmas specials. I guess I go to it every every year, me and my mom watch rewatch the episode. It's a Christmas tradition. Always takes me back to seeing it when I was way back in high school, back in the day. I just thought it was incredibly well written, well directed, really beautiful. The Santas stuff is a little bit much, but it never really bothered me, just because it was in this

Yeah, interesting interesting for me. The standout thing, like weird extra thing from this episode. It was going to be griff but Victoria, you took that one. But there is all good. It's because there is another thing that happens that like that caught my eye really quickly in the episode, and it happens at the very beginning, and the two gang bangers that assault Lex, right, the dude that like initially gets his attention put and holds me at gunpoint

Why do they shoot Lex in the back. It's a little excessive. He was he was gonna give him his watch, you know, he missed opportunity. I thought they were gonna like show it. It was gonna be the watch that his mom gave him from ship. That's why he doesn't give it all. They didn't do that. He just got shot for no reason.

That would have been cool. Also that that little alley where they meet real quick, You're like underground there, that's totally the Luther Court tunnels, right.

What the hell you doing here?

Yeah?

It was one of those like I had to come all the way down here to this place I own to exactly.

My last favorite, favorite little thing that I that I know some an episode is when Clark is doing his Santa thing and he sees the milking cookies and he has some. I thought that was great. That was a great little moment.

So yeah, I love that.

I'm the new and improved version, the new improved version.

Yeah, I indeed, you are.

Sorry.

I don't know.

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All Right, I hope all y'all enjoyed our discussion about Lexmis and despite us being maybe a little too critical of Sanna being Cannon on Earth one sixty seven, I think we all appreciated what this episode said, understand why resonated with so many people, and as Lance probably more than all of us, really gravitated towards It's a Christmas special, It is a Hallmark movie, it is a holiday movie.