Episode 197 - 10x01 Lazarus

Hi.

My name is Tom Welling.

I played Clark Kent on Smallville and you are listening to Always hold on to Smallville.

Welcome to Always hold on to Smallville and this podcast we talk about each and every episode with a Young Superman show that ran from two thousand and one to two thousand e on the WB and the c W. I'm your hose Zach Moore, and I'm joined by webmaster of krypton site and kse At TV, an author of several small Villa the Official Companions available wherever books are sold, Craig Burn.

What's up, Craig, Hey, good to be here again. I'm so excited to talk about one of my favorite episodes of the whole series.

Favorite episodes of the whole series, one of them high praise, high praise. Now you know, Craig, I went to go to my shelf to pull off my small Ville Official Companion season ten. I couldn't find it.

That's very unfortunate. Uh, tweet at Titan Books or X whatever you call it now and tell them that you want more companion guides by me hopefully, because that's.

Absolutely no I gotta say. You know that the trivia has dried up. As far as A nine and ten has gone, it was such a no pun intended. They were such a constant companion truly through my whole podcast.

Well, it's also unfortunate because there's some stories that now will never be told on the record, you know, because we never got to finish those books. Like I remember I once I once asked some of the small Bull writers. I think it was like after Doomsday. I was like, so,

Oh, so they actually thought it through, something about his.

Father being this like major thief or something. Wow.

Okayay, krudos to them for at least thinking that through.

But yeah, or I also asked which season was it where we ended the season with the fortress shut off?

Oh? That was that was season eight?

Okay, because I think it was season nine.

It was working again, he's just talking to Jarrel training that. Yeah.

At the season nine premiere party, I asked one of the writers about that and they're, uh, he plugged it in there, you go. So you know, those stories would be fun to have out there.

Because I feel like, you know, obviously you interviewed a lot of people, got a lot of quotes, couldn't put everything in there, but I think most of the stuff in there that even did make the cut was very honest and very kind of well humored. And you know, I really enjoyed all those quotes and insight from everybody over the course of those books. And yeah, it would absolutely be great to have an eight nine ten or even just a eight nine in ten together or you know some.

I've all believe me, Like I've actually pitched the idea of doing eight nine and ten in one volume, And it would be fun for me because, like when I'm watching these episodes, like for your podcast or just for my own fun, there's stuff I completely forgot, even if it's like a major plot point. Like I watched the episode where Martha and Perry come back. Somehow I forgot about the Red Queen. Yeah, I don't know how I forgot about the Red Queen, but I'm watching him like, oh okay.

I feel like I feel like the show forgot about the Red Queen and season ten. Get we'll get there, okay, I remember obviously, I have fun memories of Martha kent reappearing on the series, and I thank goodness and Neto Tool came back several episodes of season ten fantastic. But I don't know how they're like, hey, you're still the Red Queen. I don't know if that ever came up again. As much as I love season nine, but.

You know, watching you know, a couple of weeks ago before even doing this, I watched like Salvation and then Lastirus and it's just such a good string of episodes. It's like, yeah, wait to see what happens next, and just knowing it's the final season and that you know they're gonna hopefully try to put their ducks where they need to go. It's just fun. It's a fun moment. It was a fun moment to be a fan of the show.

So yeah, yeah, going into it knowing it is the final season, right, It's all been discussed, like you know, season season nine, Craig, they always knew they were beginning of season ten, correct.

They I think they knew, but they didn't announce it because I remember the Comic Con before season nine, I think Brian and Kelly have to onions you guys want season ten too, and everyone's like yeah, but yeah, I had no idea personally. And then I feel like the season ten being the final season thing came out from Tom, like the night before upfront gotcha, like somebody saw him

Yeah season eleven, Yeah.

Yeah, But I mean I think we all knew Tom was, you know done. Yeah, we don't play.

It's a nice round number ten. Yeah right, I'm like sure, great? And season nine. I love season nine. It's one of my top seasons. I was like high on season ten.

Yeah, it's like, oh, you know, we're killing Jonathan Ken because we're gonna be done at the end of the season up and picked up again, or we're gonna kill Lion all up, we got three more years. What Yeah, that's sort of thing.

But this time they knew they like had an endpoint. They like, like you said, they were trying to get all their ducks in a row, which is a lot of what this episode does. Move some pieces around, references some characters that we haven't seen a while, or come back in a big way. It's gonna be a lot of fun. But I'll say this, I felt like meant Salvation the season nine finale might be my favorite episode of the show.

Which, oh, it's fantastic.

I mean, didn't it could have been a series finale with some tweaks, right, Craig.

Yes, well, I mean Greg Beeman came back for it. I think it was his first episode after season five he was director for. He also thoroughly spoiled it on his blog, like the day before I think getting confused as to which day of the show aired just kind of funny, kind of But I think the only thing that were one of the things that really did not work with season ten, unfortunately, is that they didn't know for sure if they had Michael or not.

That's a huge, huge.

So like, I feel like they were trying to tell one story where maybe and I know, we're going to get into the Alexander of it all. Yeah, but I feel like they were The story they were telling was that Alexander was going to grow up to be the likes we know and love. But then then it seemed like, I guess they thought they weren't getting Michael, so then they did Connor Kent spoiler everybody if you haven't seen this episode.

And which it went pretty They really looked into that Craig. They were like, well, in the comics, he's have Clark k flex, let's just do this, And I thought, you know what, that's a great trapdoor for that character to explain away.

And that was Sion's one of my favorite episodes of the final season two, So but still it's like if they had known whether or not they and Michael. I mean, like even with this episode, which I'm sure we're going to get into, and maybe I shouldn't jump ahead of myself too much, but I feel like there are some things that were clearly written thinking, oh, Michael's coming back, right.

Yeah, no, nope, not yet. So going into this season that I remember I didn't go Did you go to Santagokoma for the season ten panel?

Oh?

Yeah, okay, were you there when they should? Obviously? What you were there? You were there. They showed that incredible trailer.

And Lionel was in it.

I remember that brainiac right, all this stuff, right, I just I mean I saw it as as we all who didn't get to go there in a tent and be in that room because this is before they like put everything on the internet because's twenty ten, right, right, some like sideways low quality cell phone of this amazing trailer and it's like everything goes through all ten seasons, little little snippets, I end the villain of the story.

But now like every Comic Con trailer ends up online.

It feels like, right like Aero season two and run Out, et cetera.

Right, yeah, I mean, with a few exceptions, like there was at Comic Con. Maybe it was before Endgame, Marvel did a little like recap of all the Marvel movies so far, as narrated by Louise from Hall, and it was so good. They didn't have any incredible Hult clips because they didn't have the right so he's just like, oh, we're gonna skip that one, you know, but it was amazing. And of course that has also not.

That seemed like such a slam dunk from to put on a streaming service. But right know, that's that's that's the era of the comic books. We wererad back then when stuff was not just like you said, immediately put online. That was such an amazing trailer then and now the final season of Smallville.

Also like I mean, I'd have to go to the crypton side archives to see, but I feel like there were times we didn't even get like a season trailer until like two weeks before the season became, which is kind of it's crazy. Yeah, yeah, it's like I guess they waited until they had a good amount of footage.

But yeah, fair enough.

I because, yeah, I remember one season specific where that was like the number one question that everyone's asking us, like when we're getting a trailer, and it's like, no, yeah, you know. So anyway, there you go.

We we were here, we're at the this is the last season premiere. We're gonna cover on this podcast. Wow, all right, it's getting real, Craig.

What about are you gonna do the season eleven comic?

Well? Yeah, does that count?

I mean it's Guardian. You should get Brian ky Miller on here.

Oh, we're gonna we're gonna cover the comic books. We're gonna cover the books. I've been reading the Small bl One novel die. You ever read these Small Lill novels.

Craig At the time, I don't remember them, but yeah, I kind of like, uh, there's one series that was a little more young adult, and then there was another series that was a little more serious.

Yeah.

I think rock Stern even wrote one of them.

Roger Stern wrote the first one. Alan Grant wrote the second one. There they got some comic writers in there, but yeah, they had they had a young adults which is funny because like this is small Ville, it's all sort of young adults, right, But it's like they had a regular novel than a young adult novel. So although those are set around season one and two, we are going to cover those and so that's awesome. It's it's gonna be fun to revisit some of the stuff because

I do remember that the retelling of the pilot was called a.

Rival, Yeah, which is funny to get to see some Yeah.

Yeah wow. I haven't pulled those books out in years, but I don't remember them being bad though, which is a good thing. But I do wonder how much of it, like was retconned away by other Canoe. It's kind of like you mentioned, like Star Trek novels, they might mention something in a novel that is completely.

Completely ignored, and yeah, I know that's something I want to keep track of. As I read these, I'm like, Okay, this is not accurate anymore and stuff like that. So that's that. That's it's a whole different approach covering novels in this But well that's.

Why I like when when I did my visual guide, Yeah, like I remember I named Pete's siblings. Oh, and that's listed as Cannon on the small A wiki Cannon Man. So until somebody on the show says otherwise, Like, that's that's my rule about continuity, and unless it's said, it's not true, it might have happened.

So when we get Small though the animated series, and all of Pete's brothers have different names.

Greg, Yeah, then I'm Rick Conda. But you know, if you know, like, didn't the person named Hua's first name was in the novel?

Yeah, Nyoto Hua, that's from a novel. Yeah, I don't know what novel. Well, but it's in a Star Trek novel.

And didn't they do a novel that I'm sorry, I'm going on a tangent and you can cut this out if you need to, but didn't they do a novel that connected Tralain and.

Q Yes Q Square by Peter David, famous comic writer but also a famous Star Trek writer as well.

So I would have loved to see Peter David write a small story.

Yeah, they've been great, I mean small.

In the super Bowl series in the comics for the year.

He would have been season seven called Peter David. Yeah, I mean that's the thing, right. We got Brian Q Miller on the show this point in season ten ERA, but other than Jeff John's with his annual episode eight nine in Sana, then you have Jeff Low for a few seasons.

Yeah.

There was occasionally some some you know, small cross over with small villain comic writers, but not not really that wasn't know.

I mean it's interesting because I know Anthony for Digging Digging for Kryptonite is doing the Super Boys series now and a lot of those episodes were written by people who wrote for the comics, which is kind of impressive.

Yeah, Alan milesing to write a comic.

Alan Miles are busy. Do we really believe Alan Miles is going to be involved in an animated show?

I that's the thing, right, I don't think they'll do it without them. So there's your answer, right, I don't.

Think they contractually they're allowed, Yeah, because of they just signed a big deal with Sony.

But they are doing this. I mean, isn't uhday is Wednesday?

Want to brother Wednesday? Sony?

Oh see, I get my cross My streams of beal Juice and yeah Wednesday are kind of the same thing.

I mean, you really need Allen Miles. I would recommend getting people like Brian Q. Miller, Hally Henderson, and Don White had they wrote the crisis chapter that. I know it was controversial, but you can't deny that they didn't get the voices of Clark and Lewis perfect.

Maybe except for Smallville. You made a funny that's my only.

Oh come on, that was I felt like I was watching an episode of small Ville in the year two thousand and nine.

Yep, fantastic. No, then they had the music and everything. Oh really? So yeah, I mean we're we'll, we'll cover all those things and and do time. But but today always holding on They're always holding off to Smallville, but today we're holding on to Lazarus's.

Cap. You would go to do with the Sometimes it's hard to share this one fast but just sacrifices or my love the fayvers. That's something very dark.

It's gonna have you got test.

You could give.

Lazarus is the first episode of Smallville's tenth season. It aired on September twenty fourth, twenty ten, was written by Don Whitehead and Holly Henderson and directed by Kevin G. Fair So Craig, Well, game, we're playing here in the last three seasons of Smallville, the ratings watch, I want you to guess what this episode got on a Friday night in twenty ten. For a little context, give it little help. Right the season nine finale back in May twenty ten, two point four five million viewers.

So, okay, with.

That information, what do you think Lazar has got in September twenty ten.

Well, I know by twenty ten they at least had a lead out, which I don't think they had in season nine. I think Supernatural moved to Fridays by this point. So say like two point nine million.

You say two point nine, You're very close, two point nine to eight, extremely close, well done, round off to the tenth. You got it? Uh So that's gone, right? Yes, what let's see what Sea is this season? Let's see if this is season ten of Smallville, a's season five of Supernatural. Yes, okay, so they moved Supernatural to the Friday night death slot and it lasted ten more years.

Well, how long did don Ostrov try to kill Smallville? And yet like the repeats for Smallville were getting bigger ratings than Gossip Girl. Yeah, you know, it's like it was a good show, Dan, it was.

It was a good show. But you know, we we leave you know, small those season finales and premieres. There's two ways to do it, right, It's like cliffhanger, immediately pick up after where we left off or three months later. Those are kind of your two choices, right, which is media? This is the media? You know what's funny to me? Greg, and I discovered this, you know, doing the podcast and doing all like the math that I do, and one day I'm like gonna lay out some ultimate, small, little timeline.

But I'm just like trying to do the math in my head. I feel like there are a couple of seasons also where the time jump doesn't happen until like after like episode three or something.

Maybe well, you know, in season one, it's like, obviously Vortex is immediate athlete tempest, and then heat is like the school year, so we skip over the summer there. But I think maybe maybe in season five We're like, because they don't immediately go to college, It's like, I don't know how much time's passing, But.

Well, see season five. I feel like, you know, they graduated. At the end of season four, they're going to beachin Aqua. Yeah, so that's when school was. It was like that was probably like August, yeah, September, because Clark was starting college. But yeah, I can see where it would get a little confusing.

I would just it's not going to add up. But that's kind of fun to me, Like, I'm gonna try to map the events of this show.

How doctor who fans feel timey?

Whymy wibbley wobbly exactly. So this episode starts out with a previously owned Smallville and it's Allison Macks his voice, and they do a really good job of recapping, not not I mean they do a lot of recap for big moments of the previous season. They don't focus on Zod too much. I guess. I guess they would have had to pay Callum Blue if they saw his face more than a second or whatever. So we don't they say Zod. We see clips of things, but they kind

Very important, right, I forgot about darth Lex.

What's even crazy about that we see? And again I'm studying this, you know, very in depth for this podcast. That's why I'm coming on this thing. Right, So, like we see a shot of the the Super Soldier room from season six and then we see darth Lex blow up them and trying to like imply those are the same thing. Those are not the same thing. That's not the same thing.

But they're kind of setting up the cloning.

They are, so they're doing what they can with like the footage that they have, but they set up Oliver and Chloe, which which I've really kind of soured on Craig. I was like when it happened. I was happy for Chloe, like, oh, at least you got Green Arrow because you didn't get Superman. And I'm like, I ship Oliver with Lois and Test more than than Chloe.

I don't know how you feel. Yeah, I was not a fan of Schlolly that those fans hated me too, so they were the original listening it's literally literally black Canary. I mean, I understand on Arrow why it didn't happen, because I don't think Steven and Katie Cassidy had much chemistry at all. But like I felt like Schlolly was just one of those things, Like I had a conversation with somebody earlier today actually about how that wasn't necessarily

Yeah, but I guess at the time, I was like happy because they teach that she was gonna kill her or whatever. Like every season I was like, oh good, she's gonna have a happy ending, so that that at least made me feel better at the time. But watching it again now, I'm like, we've never heard of her. We have no record of Chloe sol What does that mean anyway? They try to explain it this season future, but we see you know, we do see in here, which is interesting, maybe because he was a guest star.

Up, which is accurate.

Yeah, I mean that's why we're here, right, so exactly show they show you a clip of Clark on like the scarecrow from the pilot, You're like, why is that? Well, we're all gonna find out, We're not gonna right, we're not gonna see that. We see him burning down the towers in uh in uh the Valentine's episode. But that's the reason they do that is because you know, they referenced it in this episode when he's talking to go

You know. Well, maybe the civilians don't go to the one street in the small of the back cloth.

Maybe not. Apparently not, I liken later on, like Lexus like, hey, rush hour traffic and it's like twelve people there, but it's fine. They're on a budgeted season. Cha to give him a break. But Lois finds, you know, Clark, he's unconscious because he's I mean, hey for having no powers in the Blue Crib night in him. Uh he survived falling off a hundred story building, pretty good. Huh.

Well, I also feel like when she threw the dagger, yeah, started to come back and heal, and I mean even.

If he was truly a human and he would be like a bloody, bloody mess Lionel like Lionel falling off the top of leather garp.

You know, yeah, but maybe like internally it all just started to heal itself, like he had internal bleeding or whatever.

We can fan justify it all day long. I just exactly, I you know what I thought. You know, what was so fun about the season nine from Alleys. There's so many possibilities what could happen? Like I thought like, oh, is he gonna like pull the dag around and fly off or something'd be so cool, right, I thought that might be a thing, But no, he's He's there on the ground. Lois is cradling him. He's unconscious of course, and then we get this you know, transition into like

That? I mean, it kind of makes sense because if you have a near death experience, you know, you are likely to imagine something. Where it got weird for me is like later I still don't really understand the ghost dad of it all. But uh here, I mean it it's just like he was in that middle place. Yeah, and once he was back, he was back, but it wasn't Lazarus, the story of somebody who came back from the dead.

Yeah, Lazarus is from the Bible of Jesus resurrects a person called Lazarus. They never say Lazarus in this they should they should have called it Cadmus Project Lazarus. But anyway, Cadinets is from the comics. I'm really glad they it's sole Season one. Is what a great call back. So Victoria's yeah, Victoria scuff and ed her dad, right, Adam's laughs. Thom has some great superman here in this limbo sequence. By the way, he's got this nice little little curl.

The dark side bust of the smoveled crows also truebody. The other thing I really love about that, though, is a cornfield was one of the first things we ever saw on the show in the pilot, so it's kind of like a callback. It's like, okay, and obviously some of the other stuff is a callback as well, but it's like, this is where the show started, this is

Yeah, because there's a lot of recognizable things that they can they can connect to, right, Yeah.

But also just the notion that it's very clear from the jump of some of the things have changed, Like Lois isn't like rasing Clark in the same way anymore. It's like they clearly have feelings for each other. And yeah, I think it's very clear that Lois has figured out what's up, and I think that's really cool. I mean, I would highly recommend this episode to somebody who's like, oh, I give up around season five.

Well it's good because a lot of people when you hear a show's gonna end, I'm this way and you haven't watched it, why, like, well, let me jump on. At least watched the last season, right, And so they were whised to do all the things you're saying in those connecting points. But no, you're right, it's recognizable iconography. Right. Then he starts talking to Darrell. He's like, you're teetering on the abyss between life and death. So that's how

Right.

He rejects that this is like, he rejects this is his destiny because he's seen his fate. And he breaks the stone with his hand, which is a cool effect.

I think, well, yeah, because I mean that actually goes back to like our glass where he saw everybody's stone for his own. Yeah, so you know, just yeah, I feel like they really did their homework. And that's another reason why, you know, I had mentioned earlier that I really liked the work of Don Whyhead and Holly Henderson. I thought they did a great job writing the premiere and getting us to the right places and you can go on.

Yeah, no, it's a lot of great a lot of great callbacks, right. You know, it did make me think of you know, Crisis, which I like the Chris Inferor sending for this Clark can't. I know you do as well? Oh I did, yes, And it's this this little conversation they'll kind of made me think of it because girl's like, hey, Clark, you sacrifice yourself and you left Earth undefended, and he's like, I left like a team of heroes. Grel's like, nope, supposed to be the hero. Yeah.

My thought about Crisis, and I know I've talked about it probably with you before, is that there are other people who are handling things, but the second things get too bad where Clark has to save the day, he'll just hop into that Kryptonian sauna from Superman two and boom, he's super.

Sickly there's always a way to give his powers back, so sending me back, you know, so he would do the same thing we're seeing here there. Yeah, He's like I need to step into the light. And you know, this is interesting again you're talking about uh Don and Holly writing this episode and tying things together, that they're trying to tie all this stuff together that doesn't really fit, and they're doing a really good job. Because Darrell's like, I told you to rule them with strength, but you

No, Does it mean Jerel was kind of like a dream.

That's the thing, right, because he's see yeah, because it's not computer dure, because he's like in the afterlife, right, it's I don't know, it's all baby internal. But then he sees, well, let's talk about this. He sees Lex or Lex's sun double. They do a good job hiding the right Now here's here's let's just talk about this now, Craig Okay, Michael Rosenbaum. I believe they thought he was going to come back for this episode. Is that accurate?

Yes? I can't remember who it was mentioned to me before that they assumed until a couple of weeks before

So so that's so unfortunate because you can that totally makes sense, right because you watch this episode and you think, oh, this was conceived start to finish with you have Lex back maybe and again like he's at least in this episode and then who knows in between, and then he comes back again at the end like the last couple of episodes. You're like, you know what that would have been? That would have been great, right, because you get.

That little taste wonderful.

Yeah, because because we we'd start here, we see a guy in the president you know, it's fine, it's the imagery that we know. It's in the white president suit. Yeah, going through the going through that and I don't even know what that means, right, because like is he like I don't know, because I don't know if like he got resurrected at the same time, I don't know. I don't care. But it's it's cool.

I really hope that Talkville gets to this point. Oh please, because I want to hear Michael talking about the other Lex luthors.

I needed. I need to hear his thoughts on Darth Lex and all that.

Right, Well, Darth Lex. Uh that was right?

Yeah?

Yeah. The rumor that got as far as like Asiello at tv Line was that Michael was going to record a voiceover for that episode. Yeah, voice and that didn't happen either. I never found out why that didn't.

Happen voice actor for DC Comics, Michael Ross involves so perfect. It's so perfect, right, Yeah, I think you know when we watch we watched record for the for the podcast here, it's it did irrecovable damage to the story with like Lana and Lex in my opinion, But it was actually a pretty entertaining episode if you look at it on

To acknowledge that. I mean, I know Michael had really bad back pain at the time, which we no, yeah, you know, we the public did not. I didn't know. Like I remember when he said he was leaving at the end of season seven. I thought he was bluffing actually, and I guess he's not going to leave the show, and then he did. But no, he had like a major back surgery on season six or seven, and I think it was painful for him to do it. It

But no, it would have like these conversations are kind of interesting what if scenarios and stuff now, like, oh, there's so many, but it would have been a lot more. These conversations would be a lot more frustrating if he never came back, like that was essential. So thank god he did. So we give it, We give him credit for coming back.

There, let's put a pin in that because there's another what if scenario I want to talk as we get further into.

The excellent let's do it. But you know what, Michael's not the only one who comes back. Lex and Clark both come back from the dead here, and because Lois pulls out then the blue Krypton Knight knife and throws it, you.

Know, and Tests sort of comes back.

That's true. She's everybody's Lazarus, right. I mean they already used the title resurrection back in season three. Craigs, It's like, well, we'll go with we'll go with.

Last, and it's like they blew the title crisis in that same art.

Yeah, they're like, oh right, but that's you're again. You're you're tying Clark and Les together, which is like what the show always did. But they both like get resurrected here, at least visually. So it's great. And we see, you know, we see the sun's coming up and Clark's getting his powers restored, and Lois sees that, so she like kind of scurries away because she doesn't want Clark to know that she knows, which is a fun conceit. I'm glad they played with that for a few episodes.

Right, and you know, and we get rewarded when it's finally resolved. But like, I feel like Kevin Fair did a great job directing this episode. There are just so many like really iconic shots. I mean, obviously being a season premiere, they had a little bit more money. I'm sure, like the shot of Clark, you know, in the sun, Yeah, with wound healing, I thought that was just so cool.

It's epic, It looks epic. They're on this same back lot that they have to shoot on, but they get like you was directed in an epic way. Yeah, and yeah him he can't fly into the sun yet and soak it up. So this is the small version of him like soaking it all up. And it was a great show. He feels like he does. Yeah, he does, right, but but then you know, Lois sees him super speed off. And then we get to the opening credits, and let's

Which shot was.

It's it's just a close up of him with the chryst nine necklace on and he's hanging on the cross and.

Oh okay, because for some reason I was thinking that is the background of his shot was still in the phone booth.

That would have been great because I feel like.

They kept that eye candy in for like most of the seasons.

Well, so I understand that they're calling back the season one here, Like you said, they're bringing in a full circle. But like they use Craig. I've complained about this shot on this podcast for years. They used the shot from Shimmer where the c GI mace it's his face and I've never liked that. I'm like, guys, you have you have nine seasons of shots that choose. I have no idea why they brought that back, right, mm hmm. But we see stuff we haven't seen yet, like you're talking about.

Had shot was from like arrow or something.

Well it was that. What was funny is I didn't realize this so doing the last progress for Salvation is that the clo of Justin Harley's green Arrow's it's from Bride when he shoots the dummy legs and it falls over and we see that reflection in his glasses. I've been watching this show for years. I just didn't notice that anything. Oh well that's gone. Now that's changed, and that's why I noticed it. But and we get a little bit Alison mac in the opening credits.

One thing that the fandom was talking about so much that summer was is Alison going to be in the opening credits? Yes, had to reduce contract. So like watching those opening titles and even mentioned on the DVD commentary, how like the fans were just anxiously anticipating, well is she here? Is she not? And I remember I was on set for the show Fringe. I was on a Vancouver press trip when the episode was screened for the crew, and somebody sent me a text message to tell me, Yes,

The Dallas and Mac right, yeah, yeah, and.

Then they took her out completely, which understandably she's not in every.

Episode right right. And then and you're I think you're the one that put this out to me years ago. You're like, hey, watch season ten. There's four cast members in that opening credits. I'm like, wow, you're right.

Yeah, it just gets dwindling smaller and smaller.

Because most seasons had seven. So it's like literally almost half the amount of people.

Yeah, I'm surprised that doctor Emil never made.

It, right, he's in so many episodes or even I mean, not that I want her there, but Cat Grant guy, she's annoyed.

Oh no, I'm not no cat. Like if it's the Cat Grant from the new My Adventures to Man cartoon, I'll allow it because she's awesome, but not that cat.

Grant, not this cat Grant. No, I'm with you.

I feel like the diminished cast thing actually started with seasons eight. They lost Michael and Kristen and John Glover.

Yeah you use three, yeah.

And then you only added two. You Sam were in, Cassidy oh and Justin So I guess you did have the same amount, right, It just felt like a lot because I remember when season eight was announced, I think the only people were who were confirmed to be coming back to that time were like Tom Erica, Aaron Ashmore, and I feel like maybe Kristin Krook was in the press release just because she was announced as doing the five episodes.

Because they knew, no matter what happened, that she wouldn't come back.

Yeah, but nobody else was, like Allison wasn't signed yet.

So you know, we probably talked about this back when we did Arctic, you know, but like Kristin Krik, she had to come back for season eight because episodes were made. She was just unavailable now, right, had had they had the season ended with Veritas and they hadn't done more episodes, no one would have had to come back, right, because then the season would have been concluded. Because part of

Because the other weird thing to wonder is, I know John Glover owed them episodes in season seven, but I don't think they were used for his season ten appearances.

Oh oh that would have been Yeah, what's the what's the show life on those?

Yeah? But I do think like they didn't have to pay him extra to put his scenes in dissent because because they are contracted for that number of episods.

Anyway, Yeah, interesting, interesting, anyway you get into the weeds of the actors and stuff.

Because it is only in like seven episodes of season seven.

Yeah, well he was off like doing a plague and got a shave and a haircut.

Yeah, yeah, it was. It was crazy. But yeah, so the opening credits, that was such a big deal.

And yeah, and then you know, to to wrap up talking about the human credits, we had a great montage of all these money shots, right, we get the shopping commenced of him throwing the crystal, we get a shot at him in the Fortress train, and we get the the Superman s even though it should be reversed and looked like a bizarre in his eye.

Oh that bugged me so much. I mean, it was a beautiful shot, but it's like you just turn it around, like.

Mom, thanks for the costume, but the s is backwards.

Mom, who do you think I am? Mom? Bizarre?

Yeah, But then but then we get again teasing stuff to come. We get him, you know, holding the Daily Planet globe up, but we see the end of this episode, and then of course we end on the great shot from the season nine premiere of him just like standing over the city and in his Blur outfit. And did it Did it surprise you, Craig?

Yes, that even what I'm going to say, I just I'm just playing this like a game show. Yes, it surprised me. The costume with the red.

Jacket, That's exactly what I was going to say, you want you, I am a black trench coat season nine Blur outfit guy. I like that more than the red jacket because I feel that the red jacket and a blue shirt we've done that for years, and I felt like that's kind of almost a step back, right.

I don't know, I disagree because he's Superman not Batman.

But true, no, these are all valid arguments, so you get. But I guess it's interesting to me that here we are, season ten, this opening credit is full of him in the season nine costume. It's just strange.

Absolutely, But I think as far as the arc of the show, I feel like, especially since the goal is for him to get away from the darkness and go towards the light. You know, he had a lighter costume. Even the blue on his undershirt was a very light blue, you know what I mean, Like, I don't know, I feel like that was just like a step towards where he was going to be.

Yeah, I just I guess I feel like, Okay, he got the one transitional costume and the black trench coat, and then like another transitional costume when he has this, when he literally has the Superman costume sitting right there in a box. I think that's where mainly my frustration I get.

Alo speaks to like the character development on the show, there would have been a period of time where Lois opened that box and just would have busted out laughing.

Hm hmm. Yeah, they come a long way. Huh.

Yeah, you know it's like Clark, what is this?

Yeah, you know, so we come back from the Benning credits and we get Chloe. She's rushing through the you know, the watchtower. She's looking for all of her you know, this is okay, So this entire subplot is basically like them writing Alison mac off the show for a while, Yes, and and it you know, and it feels that way too.

Yeah, and that was actually the other what if that I was thinking about. Okay, I feel like the whole what they end up doing, and we'll get to that is a bit convoluted. Oh, they just you know, swapped. But also it's like, I don't know, like I feel like if Alison had stayed, it might have been more interesting to see their character development there and more of that.

All of her Chloe relationship we love so much, Craig.

Oh, exactly, I'm trying to say, how to put this, Like it just would have been a very different vibe, And I didn't feel that Chloe turning herself in was necessary, I guess, especially if she's completely back by the end of the season more or less, you know, Chloe Sullivan still exists, like if like maybe it's like she's like

I talked to a group of people from the future and they told me Chloe didn't exist. Yeah, the whole conversation.

Or like it might have been interesting if the doctor fate helmet drove her crazy.

Yeah, I mean, and then tying together what her fear was years ago to kind of because we keep pulling back to those threads that we said, so lots of possibilities, but they kind of took the most boring one. You know, they have so much. They're juggling here, right, so when we're we're just commenting on potential the potential things that we see here all these years later, but it's an unimitable task. They're like, Okay, well Michael didn't come back,

Yeah, my favorite moment in Man of Steel's and they're like, I'd like you to meet doctor Emil Hamilton and Alessandro Giuliani is in the very next scene.

There we go, small people littering the d C.

It's fun to see the lex clone.

Mackenzie. Yeah he's Jack. Yeah, in his he just kept his head shaved after this episode. Yeah, he just Oh my goodness. But I felt like to me, I said it before, but I'm like, oh, oh, we chieved out,

You're talking about Craig project aries there.

It is, Yeah, and it's that's really cool because because they to the average viewer, Yeah, but to us, I'm like, oh, that's that's the world, that's the universe, building that we love something.

And then you know, Cadmus is such a deep cut, such.

A deep cut, and hey, to tight I mean we were talking about, you know, what happened to the clone Lex and all that stuff. Superboy in the comic books, Cadmus Labs is where super Boy comes from, so it's almost more appropriate Craig then he turned to super Boy. It's ironically right.

Yeah.

But the conclusion they come to is, and I think into the episode's credit it's not really a nitpick, but it's like Chloe just keeps sending Clark places away so she can go do what she wants to do because there's no evidence of, you know, any of these projects of lex Is still being active. She's like, oh, you know what, Clark maybe was like older project and it's not digital, so why don't you why don't you go

Know, runs in the family to play little tricks on Clark.

We're about, yeah, that's true, that's true. So he goes to those same Daily Planet archives, right, Lois is down there and she's clicking through and this is actually as it's a good moment for her because she's clicking through, she sees Lana Pete, who she's never met. I don't know why she even that registers with her. Good to see these characters though, right she sees Clark, She's like, wow, I'm the last one to know. And I'm like wow.

And so it's the small Ville Torch. I mean, that's such a callback.

That's that's why she's in the Daily Planet Archives. Correct to look at the small Ville Torch Archives.

Maybe they have a website, they still exist, like Krypton site.

Yeah, no, no, that this This is a great moment because again they're trying to tile this stuff together. And then Clark shows up and the archives and she knows that he's the Blur. He doesn't know that she knows, right, and this is a fun I love this dynamic. And they play it out for the first five episodes of the season and she's like kind of like, oh yeah, so the Blur kiss me. He's like, oh yeah, So it's it's a fun back and forth year.

Right, Yeah, And I love that she just like drops the pen on the ground kind of it's kind of like Chloe's antics, and because she knows Clark needs an excuse to go to these Bins and she's just like, yeah, I can't find it anywhere. It's my favorite pan And it was just like, I think that's one thing I really appreciate about Small Villain in particular, is especially by this point, they don't play Lois like she's stupid.

Yeah. After season I mean, starting in season seven ish, they kind of started to treat her with the maturity she deserved, you.

Know, right, But it's like, of course, Lois Lane, the best reporter, is going to figure out that Clark Kent is Superman, even if she couldn't figure out that her boyfriend who dressed up like Robin Hood one week was the Green Arro on the next week. I mean, I don't know how she didn't figure that one out, but you know whatever. But No, I thought that was a

No, I think she she's very mature about the whole thing. And yeah, and that goes a long way. You know, You're right, like, I don't I think the secret I didnity love triangle thing is fun and they did the they did the thing of the faum Moth and small boltes of their credit. Like I think you can't, like you can't have a status quo where Clark, Kent and Lowis Lang work together for years and she doesn't know

Yeah, but yeah, it was time for her to find out. And it was you know, like the whole thing in Salvation. You know, when she has that realization, it's like, Okay, it's earned, it's earned.

So yeah, she just is a little she she crawls on the desk. Hears him super speed and clearly he did whatever he need to do. So she comes out is like, oh, I found it, and he's like, oh, well what I was looking for was right here anyway, So I'm gonna go. And she smiles and you know.

But also like stick, why wouldn't he have just told Lois what he was looking for?

That's true.

I guess super speed to find it.

Yeah, yeah, because it's like, well, let me help.

You, and he's like, no, this will take hours.

So he calls Chloe back and he's like, hey, Cole, I need you to look up Cadmus laugh. He's like, sorry, Clark, I can't. I'm at Carter Hall's house. I'm gonna put on this helmet now, this doctor Feate helmet. I like the JSA costumes and all that correct, But hear me out. I have the same esthetic comment about this helment as I do with a death stroke helmet and arrow like that.

I have a picture of myself holding the Constantine helmet.

It looks fantastic. It's like shining now I think I know it was.

Super shiny, and I was like, I'm chloeing out exactly.

I think what it is is they're looking out for reflections and if you really did like a shiny reflective Doctor Fate helmet, you see the camera. But I'm like, maybe use a different code of paint, Like I hate to be like that guy. I'm like, don't it looks so plastic?

So that was a great shot in the opening titles.

Though, yes, of her putting on this the fan, and it ties together with I don't think they mint it this way back in Absolute Justice for Doctor Fates, like you walk the same path as me, Chloe sold and then they're like they find that line and they're like, all right, let's use that, and now she's gonna put on the Fate helmet, which is it's funny because you know, when we're talking about these episodes and we rewatch them,

You know, we're talking about what they could have done with Chloe if they had out had Alison for more episodes, they could have had her become the new Doctor Fate.

Yeah, that is a mantle that gets passed on in the comics, and so you know, if you're gonna these all these characters get combined and stuff, So sure, why not?

Why not?

I thought that would have been cool. That would have been really cool for her. Actually, yeah, so then we, uh, she puts on the helmet and presumably sees the Oliver is and she sees shees a whole lot of stuff, right, and then Clark finds her and she's knocked out because the power of the I like how it's like, look, you can't do this all the time. You gotta respect the power of this helmet. So it's too much for any mere mortal to take on because it drove doctor

Or alias that's what I thought of, just getting beaten up, and good old Rick Flagg, good old Rick Flagg. You know, I'll just remind Rick Flagg he's gonna have some fun with the Peacemaker.

Someday, That's right, But hey, shirtless Oliver plus one, Oh yeah, any excuse to cot Justin's Hartley shirtless the show finds it. It's just lucky for him he didn't have the Steven Emel scars and the tattoos and all that. He could just be beautiful guy, even though he got pretty scarred up by Zod last season. But we just he's got good plastic surgeons, so what we'll say that he visioned

Craig, I agree, Yeah, I I like their aspects of season ten that I really wasn't a fan of and the whole suicide squad aspect is definitely one of them. It's like, I guess they're kind of there to show Clark more of the darkness in the world. Maybe a little bit, but yeah, I was not a fan.

So Olivers getting electrocuted and they're charging him all this, and we cut away and we cut to a to a lab somewhere. Craig and Tess Mercer wakes up and she has this patch of flesh on her face and where her face had been, you know, burned off by Zod right, and she had, you know, died last time we saw her. She died.

H I have a few questions.

Let's let's hear him.

Wasn't half of her body burned instead of just her face.

Well, I'm just gonna say that that gou has been on her body for a while and it's just been evaporating. And she wakes up at the very end of the process and it's the last piece she pulls off and she's fine.

See, And I think her hair is still beautiful.

She looks great. I think I've fallen in love with Cassidy Freeman rewatching this show. I think tests is great. Cassidy is great, and I see her praises all the time on this podcast, but it's like, what a what a U? What A what a task to fill in for Michael rosemms like Luthor and she she took this and ran with it.

Huh, Yeah she did, and I really appreciate. I'm not gonna swollow people food who don't know, but I feel like season ten is when they finally figured out Tests.

Yeah, no, no doubting that.

Some of those things they later revealed about Tests are kind of hinted that in this episode one hundred percent.

I was thinking of that too. I was thinking. I was thinking to myself, you know, in season seven, we're obviously Veritas is the greatest retcon of all time. But I always thought to myself, Oh, they probably switched out the window between season six and seven. No, they didn't, Craig. They switched out the window like in Traveler, which is

Yeah, but you know, I'm pretty sure we've talked about it before that in Absolute Justice, they were gonna reveal that she was Cameron chased from the d out.

No, I don't think we haven't talked about that.

Yeah, that was in Jeff John's original script for the episode called Society.

Jeff Johnson never told me he was on this podcast and never.

Told me that it was in the script where Amanda Waller calls her by her real name, and that was going to be her connection to Checkmate and all that.

Okay, I'm glad they didn't do that. I think they did because.

This gave her a personal connection to the characters in the final season, especially to Lex obviously, and you know Lionel when we see.

Him, Yeah, and Clark Luthor and we see him.

Connected him.

Oh, but she's a you know, she's she uh is in this lab and she gets a lab code and she finds like an ID tag in it, and she starts just you know, opening doors and stuff, and she comes to this room of all these tubes and it's I'm like, oh my god, they're going to do it, right, because because in the com books as a president for Lex and resurrecting himself. I'm like, they're doing they're leaning

Yes, exactly. A question I have is this the first time we saw Jacob Davis's young Legs.

You know, I look this up and yes, this is the only time we see him. Uh so, you know, small and later this season it does the same thing. It has a good tracker of bringing back the young actors, like for the continuity of the characters. Right, But at this point, if we're going because they wanted to go for a really young Lex here, yeah, they had to go younger because everybody else was too old. You know, all the other younger Legs actors are too old.

That kid ended up being like Pinocchio on Once upon a Time. Wow, okay, but yeah, I just wasn't sure if we had seen him in like a flashback in season nine or something. No.

He he also was in an episode of Fringe. He played little Boy, whichever episode that was.

But it's like, at I don't know if you I really liked the tests in Alexander's story because it gave Tests kind of more of a purpose other than you know, living up to running Luther Corp. Or whatever. It was like, I'm taking care of this child because I wasn't taken care.

Of Yeah, it was interesting. I you know, I'll say it from the last scene because I remember some stuff that was being said on the Internet, which I kind of like, oh, that would have been interesting.

Okay.

We see her looking at these tubes and then uh, this little kid comes up and she's like, oh, what's your name. He's like Alexander. She's like, oh my god, you're him, and you're like, oh, it's a lax. It's so cool. She figures out like, oh, you're all engineered from lex DNA and they call it the call Lex the Creator. You know. It's it's like very weird thing going on here, like there are my brothers and he holds his hand up in the and one of the weird mutant ones hold his hand up to the glass.

Yeah, it's like creepy body hortor almost Yeah.

Exactly, because there's there's different levels of deformity in these tubes. Yeah.

Well, like even Alexander was like missing some of his skin because it wasn't that used to help task.

Yeah, because because he's like, we were we were made to heal the Creator the way we healed you. And he pulls up his shirt and like they had taken some of his skin and grafted on her hair and this is Look, they know that they're in this ridiculous place with a lex Luther character. They're like, well, we blow up in a truck and he was injured. So

And I know on the DVD commentary they mentioned that the set that they used for Cadmus was very small, so it's probably difficult to shoot in, so but that made it look more full weirdly enough.

Yeah, Yeah, because it was in some BIGINTI warehouse. It was like, oh, this could go on forever, right, because you don't know how many Lex clones there are, right.

But I noticed there's a numbering scheme there is.

There's like a thirteen and a fifteen. And then so so Test here's this banging behind a door, right, and she's like, oh, let me go open up another door. And then little Alexander's like, no, let's keep the bad one. And then this Lex pops out and it's this little reaction shot of the one of the mutant clone Lexes in the tube, like his eyes get real big, like even he knows that, Oh no, they opened the bad door. I thought that was a good little touch there.

Yeah.

And this this really insane looking bald Mackensey gray pops out and just starts attacking Tests and and it's interesting because this is the first scene between Lex Luther and Test Mercer on the show Craig give you think about.

It, it is and also like it's kind of weird to watch now fourteen years later, because like, we know what Michael Rose's mom looks like when he gets a little bit older. Yeah, and it's not that.

Well, yeah, they're like, they say, I've misremembered. I thought he was like, oh, he's gotta be like forty years older. But she tells Clark later like, oh, he's like twenty years older. I'm like, you know what, Yeah, you don't look that different between thirty and fifty. I hate to break a deal.

Yeah, exactly, Like Michael still looks good.

You know.

So in theory, this would have been Michael rosebaumb here if they.

Got it back, and that would have been amazing. I mean, you could even make the argument. I'm not saying they should have done it, but if Michael said I don't want to shave my head, who says this clone couldn't have hair.

Or do the ball capolic they did in the finale, But there were ways around it. But I suspect. I suspect his reasons were not returning were financial, or it could have been the aspect that I said about him having pain yeah, also true, or.

Not knowing, like maybe he could have figured if I come back for the first one, they're gonna ask me back again and again and again. And he wanted to save that. So I'm so glad he like I said, I'm so glad he eventually came back, but this would have been really good with him. I don't think Mackenzie Grig was terrible, but I do think John Cryer was a better standing lens.

That's a good point. Yeah, Christ Center for Nurse. Yeah, absolutely, old friend.

Right, Oh, I did like how in this is probably getting ahead of ourselves. But there are a couple of times where Mackenzie Graye did that thing where he's speaking with his back turn to somebody.

He does that, and he does the he does like the forearm raised. It's like a go to move by Rosenmom when he when he's like he just raises his forearms and he's talking. So I obviously he's studied a little bit of of who of who he's great, so I feel the same way. I'm like, he's not bad, but he's not Michael. There's only one Michael. There can be only one likes Luthor as the lex says.

But honestly, like Michael is the best, like slipper across like anything that agreed.

So an univitable task for McKenzie. But good on McKenzie ray for shaving his head and giving it is all here like he's given it as all he's trying his best and uh he we establish here because he knows Tests and she's like, how do you know me? He's like, I have all Lex's memories and all his emotions. Right, So it's that shows you that, like they these aren't just you know, clones their blank slate. They remember all. I don't know how the cloning works.

Wait, so that implies that Lex knew about Tests existing.

Well, yeah, of course that's what he says in the finale, He's like, why do you think I recruited you?

And oh yeah, and then there was that whole thing about oh I loved you.

That's before they knew.

Uh yeah, that was the moment.

Yeah, that's right. So but you know, uh, Test tells the Lexaner to hide, and then McKinsey Gary Lex he destroys all the other Lex Luthor cloneses like there canna only be one Lex Luthor and he burns everything, everything down, and that see here's here's my question here then, right, Like I guess part of the plot of this episode is and I don't know if this they did is before after Mikeroro's mom wasn't gonna be in it, but like this clone still would have been like rapidly aging, right,

I do think the original intention was for Lex to age op, up, up, up until he's Michael, and that gave him the opportunity like bring back Connor, Stanhope.

Everybody, Yeah, yeah, yil So so here's yeah, so so I guess it in their perfect world, micro Rosemond is here in this episode as this likes to give you that little bit of taste or hey remember here he is.

He's back, and maybe that likes would theoretically age up and.

He'll die yeah at the end. Yeah, and then this and then it's starts Yourek three search respox situation with this little Lex and he gets older and older, you know, and he eventually he's literalty boy at the end. So yeah, we'll go with that, you know what I'm talking about. So but hey, uh you mentioned before doctor Hamilton's back. They're at the Watchtower or doctor Hamilton is scurrying to see what's wrong with Chloe, and like should have given him a thirteen episode contract or something.

But also, why didn't he come help her at the JSA Brownstone or something? Like? Did Clark really just carry Chloe's body all the way to the watchtower?

Yeah, not only should you not move an unconscious body, shouldn't super speed an unconscious body. Clark, I mean they I would say, well, they didn't have the set, but they did have the set because she was there.

He did his a little Superman aura to protect her or something.

Yeah, and nobody's home like Carter Hall's in Africa, as we discovered, So like it's a lit been fine for them to be that, is it. I guess they wanted her run a hospital bed and all that stuff. So there, but yeah, she wakes up and she's like, oh right, She's like, oh Clark, I saw, I saw it all.

No, She's like, I saw, now you still didn't put on the.

Cost I saw you and you were cgi.

Clark. You in the future, you gave up your powers. You're wearing flannel, You're wearing funnel again.

So this is another one of those misdirects by Chloe. She's like, oh, Clark, I saw fire and I think Cadma's labs in trouble. You should go. He's like, oh, okay, he super speeds off when you stay on. Chloe, She's like, goodbye, Clark, And this is her knowing that she's not gonna see him again, at least for a while until they all

Well, I have a poster somewhere for the final season. It's got like a light blue background. You've probably seen it, and it's like Tom wearing like a suit and tie I think from the season eight for most suit, but he has a shadow. The shadow is totally Brandon Routh.

Oh, that's the that's the cover of the of the DVDs in the blue rays is this is this is absolutely Brandon Ralph.

Oh, that's not even what I was talking.

Oh, I'm holding up my box now, but.

Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, we can't see it. But no, like.

It's like the Anakin Skywalkers episode one post, right, I understand what you mean.

Yeah, but no, the one that I saw, it's like he's in the middle and there's like a reflection of the Superman costume underneath.

I think I might have seen that, but yeah, it's just yeah, yeah, Brandon Ralph through and through it. So yeah, anyway, Lois Is, you know, she's in the loftier and she sees that box. Because let's not forget this is the next day after Salvation saw this. It makes sense that the Martha left the note in the box and still be there. So Lois goes up to the box and opens it up, and it's speaking of Brandon, he Earth Craig. It's the Superman Returns.

Costume, which they clearly were not allowed to touch too much.

Yeah, what's interesting to me is and this is a fantastic change because I've always I'm not the biggest fan of that Superman Returns costume.

I always read.

Yeah, I criticized the cape. I call it a fruit roll up cape because it's this weird, rubbery, weird thing and like immediately improved by the proper cloth or red cape.

Right, Yes, agreed, completely but like I said earlier when we were recording this podcast, it's like there was a time when Lois would have just seen that and started laughing at how ridiculous it looked. But it also is just interesting, like to think about what Lois must have been thinking when she saw that, Like does she ever ask Clark later, like why didn't you put on that suit?

Ye? Know?

What happened to that suit? And that that's why that car ride in Harvest. I'm like, I want to hear the whole thing where she asked him every possible conceivable question, like, hey, what happened to that suit? Like I don't know, my alien dad zapped it away? And I like, wouldn't Clark just called Martha? I'm like, mom, can you make another one? Jarrell took away your costume.

Costume this time?

Oh that's great, that's a top. That's a top. Now, so we see the Superman Returns costume here, right, we've seen the Superman Returns S on Smallville before. They've kind of like it's so funny because at this point Superman

Right.

You see the Superman Returns costume here in the first episode of season ten, Do you think he's gonna wear that super Returns costume?

I did think that's what he would. I mean, I would assume so, since that was the costume we saw. But what I find interesting is that at the same time we had that, we had his first the black plar suit, which had a more traditional ass or like when the S's were all over town, and then the jacket is like the Christopher Reeves shaped ass hmm.

Was the sign of the S's. They're all different.

Yeah, yeah, I think it was more of a matter of what was convenient to them to have at the time. Yeah, And they were able to get the Wrath suit. I mean, on the same note, crisis, the main reason they gave him the Kingdom Come suit is because they weren't allowed to use the Superman Returned suit for some reason.

Well, first of all, that's ridiculous, but those are the rules that the WB makes apparently, but also thank God, because that arguably might be the best costs.

I think that's my favorite action Superman so.

Out of that of the Christopher Reeve original one, just because that is the costume, and then the Fleisher got costume is right there. Yeah, I think I think you would. I agree about the top three suits.

Yeah, the Fleischer costume, like on Superman and Lois. When I see the Fleischer costume, that's when I most feel like I'm watching Superman.

Right, why can't that be the main costume on that show?

Exactly that I'm not.

Yeah, so this this costume is in this box and then we see it again at three end of the episode and you're like, look, it's the first episode. There's no way they would tease that.

Well, they teach at the end of the previous season.

Well with a different looking s in his reflection. More's so funny.

It's just.

Nothing correlates. The shade of the s is different than the shade of the cave. But it's we were just out of our minds and the show there was no flights, no tights. We see this costume. It was an incredible moment.

So yeah, I wouldn't ask you. Yeah, like earlier, we were talking about the trailer that they showed at common Com. Didn't they show that shot of Lois finding a top?

I believe this shot was in there, and people like people lost their mind because it's it's a Superman costume, Like we never thought we'd see the day.

You know, we thought we're gonna get more of it at the end.

But yeah, we thought for sure it's there. It is and the fortress and then you know, you know what's so interesting too is when ghost Dad Jonathan hands him the suit in the scene where this podcast gets his name always sold the small Villa Son, It's a different suit. It's not this suit.

I didn't even notice that.

It's it's the I didn't notice it for years, Craig. But but like it's it's this. It has no texture, it's a very flat s it's very strange.

Nobody was allowed to handle it well, like.

But it's wrapped in a cape, so you think, like, I don't know, it's it's strange to me.

But beyond that, I also did not realize until I think Tom said it on top Fill or something, that the shot of him ripping up in the shirt he did not have a Superman suit under me.

I have seen that, and that's correct. That is a T shirt with an S taste on it underneath a dress shirt and a I'm like there, it is terrible. I'm sure you. I and a lot of our listeners have warned more of a Superman costume than Tom has.

You know what I'm saying, I keep telling you, like I keep saying on Twitter, is like, if Michael and Tom want to get money for their Patreon, if we give a certain amount, we'll Tom put on the suit for us.

I want to see Tom put on a costume and Michael shaved his head for the last episode of Tom Phil. What level of patron level do we need?

Yeah, what level of patren do we need to be? I mean, I'm broke, but I would pay for that.

I'll cover you, Craig, I'll cover you for that one. But hey, it's we're in season ten people. We have a Superman costume, all right, So amazing stuff. Lois is a great line, so much better in technicolor, right, because it's not black anymore. He's he's the world's serial and he's not wearing black. But she hears, she hears somebody coming up the steps. Right, She's oh, let me put it all Let me put it all back, and she's like, hey,

Yeah, No, it's completely It's just he had a certain delivery. I mean, I mean, this is a small Ville podcast. I don't think we can say enough good stuff about Michael's performance.

Right, And it's it kind of shows you it's an interesting experiment. It kind of shows you like, yeah, what if he didn't cast someone as good as Lex, it would have been it would have just felt kind of flat, like he brought so much to it, and it's this intangibleness and anyway.

Well, I feel like small Bell got very lucky with certain casting choices. Like this is another thing that came up on Talkville a couple months ago when they had Erica on and she was talking about how she was so nervous when she first came on as low as Slane, but that makes it even more impressive, how like from the first frame she just was like completely ingrained in the series and fitting in. And I don't think we

Yeah, same thing with Tom. Honestly, I mean, we all love Jensen Ackles, but I don't think he would have been the same Clark that Tom would have been.

He wouldn't have been as relatable.

But I think he might have put on a Superman costume. But let's move on.

Now. I'm just picturing Jensen Ackles in a Superman costume having a potty mouth like he had on The Boys.

That's right. Yeah, he clearly has no version of wearing superhote costumes.

Yeah. True, Clark has.

Arrived at Cabin's Labs. He's going through all the wreckage, right, a bunch of dead, dead, charred bodies. He's picking up like LX thirteen and all these labels, right, and and he finds Tests and I like how Clark goes up there and he's about to like cause Test is like tied up somewhere and he's about to set her free, and then he's like wait, He's like wait a minute. Everybody's here's dead except for you. Like what's going on here? Right? This is a good a good scene between them.

Yeah, it's like they weren't completely allies yet they're still which they're not. Yeah, yeah, they're still kind of thawing out with each other. Like I feel like by the end of the series, things are good, but you know, they got to carry Oky together and everything.

Yeah, exactly. But she explains like, hey, look, I don't know what happened when I woke up, I was healed. And he's like he did it Lex, you know, And she's like Clark, he's he must have been like twenty years older. Like sure, okay, that's.

He's not as good of an actor as he used to be.

Like I guess, I guess there's a hell, I guess that's there. It's the aging thing, because that's why it's not just like they could have gotten more like mutated. But that's weird, So like, I think the aging was probably the right choice, right, and so she explains it. No, no, the original legs. He planned to use these bodies, you know, to heal his own body, right, which is you know, part of the cobooks, right, so let's.

But then his body went boom in requel.

Yeah. See that's the thing, right, what is your I think the show wants us to believe that the Lex Zero from the series finale is this piece together Lex from all these clones. But I think in my heart I want to believe that's like the original Lex still.

I mean, I mean I would. Yeah, I never gave a lot of thought, but I I guess I was too distracted by the way they ended Lex's story in the show, annoying me. Yeah, that I didn't really put a lot of thought into like which Lex it is, but that does track. Yeah, he just didn't have a heart.

Yeah, so that's why he's zero. He's like Lex Prime in the original Lex. And maybe that maybe that Lex in the truck was a clone. I mean, that's the great headcanon we all played.

But anyway, oh yeah, that I think that might have been My thought actually, was that was the clone.

That was well, what was so genius about the series finale, which you will hear me praise very infrequently. A genius thing they did, though, was they tied together Darth Legs with Michael because he takes that mask off and it's the mask that the darth Legs was wearing. I'm like, okay, look at you doing, doing what you can. Let you have small Bill.

Well, they just wanted to have a good shot for the trailer. I give the falling off.

Yeah, that's that. They They used every shot of room they could to promote that stuff. But Clark, Clark, he frees he freezed Tests and he's like, why did he leave you alive? Because he killed everybody else. And at this point we think, is the audience, oh, did he

I feel like on the commentary, didn't they make a reference to possibly having the reunion being at Lowbridge from the pilot?

Oh yeah, that would have made sense, but it had been too expensive.

They really like Matt, well.

Yeah, where I first see, well, yeah, that's the whole thing where you saved me, where I saved you? Right, So this is interesting here because and then you think about, like, okay, what if this is rosenbomb. It would have been a slightly different introduction because because Lex pops out and he's like quoting the Scarlet Letter, it's a classic. The dialogue here is a plus for Lex, like it's all tracks.

I feel like there had to have been like articles or like there're semi famous reporters by this point sort of.

Yeah, well, I mean if he he goes to the he goes to the barn, probably looking for Clark, right, yeah, he finds Lois there, he knocks her out and he's like, oh, look a picture here and this or that, you know five minutes.

Scene where he tried to attack Lana and Lona was like, he's not even with me, He's with and that's how he found out.

That's that's how that's what they pitched to. Kristen Kuric. Craig Yes, that's yeah, that was the scene. But no, but I love this. She's quote the Scarlet Letter and would that I might endure his agony as well as mine. I guess it's the S. I mean he paints it on her tank top. It's the imagery of the pilot coming back to this was genius.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Also just the notion that Clark and Lewis first kind of met in the cornfield.

Yeah, I was thinking that too, right, of the same kind of the environment. And of course he goes on to say the letter is a mark of shame because he you know, he doesn't like the S and he references saving Clark. I don't know. This is all just also really well done. Yeah, and then he he kind of lays out his dastardly plan, uh to lois that that he'll lose you and it'll break him and all

The reason we didn't see John Lover until the Luther's because he wasn't available.

Well, I mean that was the perfect time to bring him back to.

Yeah, and also he was dead but yeah, no, but I mean the real life explanation, I think he was doing a player around that time, but.

That this is a really well directed sequence of just like Dutch angles and like especially when Lex is walking off and he throws the match down, like the match that lands on the lens of the camera and then you know it's just really it has a lot of a lot of style to it, right.

Yeah.

I remember there's so much speculation about this, these shots here between Clark and Lex because they were in the trailer and be like, who is that? He's some old ball guy in it next to a tree, but it's it's really well shot. He's like, where's the real Lex, and he says the creator died two years ago, so there's still referencing Requiem saying that that that Lex died and you know that that was gonna be the thing,

It's so good evolved.

They have both evolved. Yeah, oh and you're right talking about the Low Bridge and he's like, yeah, the bridge. You know, Lex with Di diet. I hadn't pulled him out of that car. He's like, and you never let me forget it. And again, these are all just I can just hear Rosenbom saying this, and it's it's so good time he dragged me the sure right, it's this this is the scene where he does the forum thing I'm talking about, Craig. It's a good This is.

Gonna be another like Patreon bribe bribe that we're gonna have to give them, Like, can you film this scene so we can edited into it.

We just we just need to scan Michael's face and just deep fake him in to the scene. But I love him hating the you know, that self righteous symbol and your pride and the darkness in your heart. And he's calling Clark out, and Clark kind of proves him right by trying to kill him, you know, yeah, but

Yes, I agree.

Also, he's one hundred percent right because he's like, the only reason people call you a hero, it's since you're cleaning up the messages that you make. He's got. That's a lot of the seasons of the show.

But Clark should know already, I mean from the second, like his meteors smashed Slana's parents or parent the one was still alive.

Yeah, oh the gosh, oh my goodness, that was a long time ago. They don't even remember that character now that I don't know who they forgot worse, Henry Small or Gabe Sullivan.

So well, you know, they talked about at Christian reasonly and recently did a convention and she talked about how she liked working with Patrick Cassidy, which I thought was amusing because we don't really we hadn't really heard those stories. But what was the other one that you said Gabe Sullivan gave SolV that was that was another one where I remember asking, like, I don't want to name names, and if any smallvill writers are listening to this, I

Yeah they should Honestly, Craig, they should have just killed him and gone or you know when or you know, the beginning season four, like oh, Chloe made it out, but Gabe didn't problem because that's the last time we see him anyway.

Yeah, and there are things that the actors sometimes forget, Like I remember so when I was on set for Promise doing interviews for my season four book, and I remember one of the questions asked, oh something. It was like like, why wasn't there a scene where Lana found out that Chloe was still alive? And Allison did not remember filming it? And then I'm watching the season for DVD and it's the three of them and it's like, oh, that happens. So sometimes the actors forget too, I guess, speaking.

Of deleted scenes, like I wish and I'm Superman, Lois the first season did this for their extra long presentations. Sometimes I wish, like, and again, this is work and they don't want to pay people and the return on investment is solow. But I wish they were like releast extended episodes of Smallville because there's a lot of these episodes have so many deleted scenes that are like add to the plot, you know, like really enhance the story.

Well, I remember when they first started doing the complete series DVD set. I remember I suggested to somebody, you should just edit together the original Veritas.

Yeah, oh man, that was so good.

But you know, even if it's unfinished, people would understand.

It's like the Donner cut of The Man too. People that understand.

I think that again, I think it's a thing where it would be like having to pay people for another episode that didn't accept that.

That's why they whenever they do stuff like that, that have to list it it's a special feature, right, because they're trying to cover it. And I get the legality of it, but it.

Just which it's unfortunate because I mean, especially in the case of the Veritas things, since we saw flashback to it, but which they just talked about on.

Top Film, Like, yeah, that was that was crazy. Like I thought that for years, and now going to conventions and seeing talk film, Michael has slowly revealed that they did fill him out there in this in the Snow and we're all like, where did this comment? Like it explains I guess they just they just did. They want to cover their bases and they're like, we'll put every character here and we're gonna be out here, and it

Something that one of the Mackenzie grayles excitedly.

Anyway, Anyway, when Lex gets his memory race, he doesn't remember any of this because it's totally Lax. So Lex's goating Clark, and Clark starts choking Lex as no straps arts to bleed and we've seen it bleed a little bit before, showing that he's like dying, you know, kind of shakes Clark out of his rage and he backs off and lex is like, don't fly to yourself, Clark, I'm dying, but it's not your fault. You know, the world will turn he gets in the Green Goblin speech, right,

But what what if he said? What if he said, well, I'm gonna kill the woman you love and Clark goes looking for Anna.

Yeah, you know, it's it's like Aero season two where like they take the wrong person.

Yeah, yeah, no, totally.

It's a good setup though. It's a great classic suitor plan.

Yeah, it's right up there with stealing ten piles.

So yeah. And then and then you see this old clone Legs just die, you know, and Clark super speeds off and it's a it's interesting shot and it's it's creepy. You get a lot of creepy leg stuff in this episode. But then we see, uh, we see the Daily we see the explosion underneath the Daily Planet globe, and we see Clark running faster than ever has before, right, and uh, it's a very I mean, he can't fly yet, so

He puts out the fire and do you have the flash pilot. He pretty much does that with a tornado guy Weather Wizard run, Clark run, Clark run.

Like they spend just long enough we actually see him, you know, instead of just like a pun intended a blurb. But that that adds a lot to the same.

I think it adds out to the save. But also like that they show the aftermath of just like the embers that are still out. I really liked what happens next, although there's the question of like, did he crush those people in that taxicab?

Yeah? Oh, and when when Lewis wakes up, she's like, oh, get him because she knows Clark saved yeah her. And has anyone ever looked better in a tank top than Ergar Durant's in the scene. I think not, but.

Terry Hatcher's loves Laye in the episode just say.

No, I'll look it up after this. You're right, Solark is super speeding downtown. He jumps off his taxi and these two people get thrown like a hundred feet. Craig, You're absolutely right.

No, But I was just gonna say before we get to that. With Terry Atchers, Lois, she had a similar reaction after she found out Clark was super Like they're arguing and then she's like, just go but you know, it's like it's the same kind of vibe of you just go get him. And so I thought that was a good callback. That is great.

So you know, Clarky, he's he's breaking the all kinds of speed and sound very Zoo's flashing lights behind him as he runs, and as you said, he does this, like step up on this taxi and it blows like two people back like one hundred feet, Like, oh, that's gonna that's some collateral damage to those people.

Oh well, I so I know there's some debate like did he fly or not in the scene. I think they said something about this on the comment I mean, they wouldn't confirm or deny on the commentary, but I'm going my head canon is that he did fly. It's just he didn't think about it, so therefore he could do it. It was like an adrenaline moment. And I agree, so I think he completely because how could he so perfectly carry that globe and not drop it and put it exactly the right.

Spot because he's leaping a tall building in a single bound craig.

Yeah, and he's more powerful than locomotive.

File is that it faster than spinning bullet is what I heard. But I agree with you, I think, and I like the conceit of him not being able to fly as like this mental block because he sees him as a human right. That's and yes, we understand why they did that because the show rantieers, you can't have him flying, but like for a story, reason. I think

My god, right, if it's incredible his determination, and but you also have to think like the times he did fly, it would be like when he was under Red k or if he was cow. You know, it was always a moment where he didn't have those inhibitions. Yeah there, he just didn't know how to use it. So yeah, that was such a great scene, great heroic moment despite the where people in the.

Text absolutely and you know he's he he puts the glow back and everybody's cheering, the fifteen people they have as extras, and he sees their eyody to the one street, he sees their body cheering farm and then he just super speeds back to the barn and which I think is stock footage of some super speed shot from outside. They can farm at some point, but it's fine, and he goes back and he obviously in his mind, he's like, you know what, I'm Superman. Now I'm gonna put on

Polo costume here because Tom Welling told me you don't want to wear it.

The perfect storm of things keeping us forgetting Here's the thing, right, I if Tom wanted or wanted to, I think it may have been irrelevant. The probably wouldn't even let him wear it. I don't know who's right, even like I would have loved to have a whole season like Supermanure one, but that's not that's not what the show is. Some

You know, we as an audience probably feeling the exact same thing Clark was at the time, Like Jiurelle, you are such a dick. Yeah, you know what I mean, we just you know it was it was like Lucy in the Football with Charlie Brown Peanuts cartoons.

And it's they're kind of going because Clark and Joel were kind of in a good place last season, so they're kind of going back further like when they were kind of at odds with each other. I guess they figured that's more interesting, which it is is always.

In retrospect, like if you ever do a Smallville timeline, Jeoryel makes no sense, Like just like, yeah, well.

I have a question for you, Craig. How many episodes do you think Jerrel was in season nine?

Four?

Two?

Okay?

That that that blew my mind too? A savior and echo where he gives them the my reading power. That's in season nine. He is in four in season ten though, so just so you know, wait, which episode which season was Julian Sand's first in season nine? Does that count? Oh? Well, okay, fair enough. I was just I was, I guess I mad. The voices are all turns down, but h okay, he's dude, he's only in what episode of season eight? Can you believe that?

Wow?

Right? I mean because he was just this this heavy presence in the early part of the show, and you think, like when the fortresses around, he's going to be around more. He's actually kind of around less. So it's it's interesting, Uh, Clark went talk to him in the caves a lot more than the we thought.

In the actual fortress. Well, I think the caves other aspect of the show that the show did kind of forget. Like sometimes they'd mentioned Naman and sig or whatever.

Look, we have we have pictures, but.

It was like the second that the fortress was there, they just forgot the caves existed.

Which is fine, I guess, like I'm like, I never really care for the caves, but it did. I did like that the show had its own identity sort of with those.

So it's like out Oliver's apartment disappeared by the time Justin Hartley was a serious regular amazing timing, but they kept going there. In season seven.

Yeah, Olivers out of town. But let's let's take your mom here, Quille he or whatever. You know. Joel and Clark are kind of going back and forth here and the fortress kind of like gets mad at Clark. It's like shaking it, which is you know, you don't see that very often which is kind of cool, and of Colu's like, why did you send me back if you don't want me to be a hero, And Joel's like, it was not my decision to give you back your life.

The last time he resurrected Clark, Jonathan ended up dying.

Yeah, so He's like, you might not see me as a hero, but the rest of the world does, and I decided my fate. It's actually I agree, like if they had kept like the the quote unquote evil Joerell from like the first couple of seasons, right, yeah, that would have been interesting. But like Superman returns happened, I think, and they had to kind of a lie and thing.

Well, I feel like the early episodes of season ten especially had a lot of people crapping on Clark about how he hasn't met his destiny. I mean Karat yeah, Kara in super the Superol episode especially, but other people and it's like, okay, yeah, we get it. He's not there yet. But I liked that he Clark was finally thinking or speaking proactively in the Fortresses draw right here.

Yeah, yeah, he instead of just sitting there and taking it, He's like at least defending himself. Right, So we kept the commercial. We come back. Hey, we get some great shots of Justin Harley's beat up naked body here, but the suicide squad lets him go, and there's a there's a there's a prisoner swap and as the classic I have a bag on your head, you have a bag on my head whatever. I like. They pass in the parking lot and Chloe is now the prisoner of the

I remember watching the scene. I thought the song choice was really good, especially as it led to the next scene as well. I don't remember what it's called, but.

It's vast One More Day, and I was like, this sounds really familiar. And you know why, Craig, you know why it sounds from there because they played this at the end of Veritas. What I know, this is very unlike Smallvele to reuse a song unless it's everything by Lifehouse exactly.

No, I did not realize that, but like I will admit, even though I was not a Schlally person, I was very emotional watching that scene of the switch.

Yeah. Yeah, they play it well, yeah, they pla Alice and Max in the in the car. In her facial expression, it's like, okay, like you're you're selling you on this eve when I'm like, I don't necessarily like this, you're selling. Oh, there it is. And we're not even talking about real

But I I don't remember how I found out, but I knew about Tests being a Luther before season ten started.

Okay, so that means they really did figure it out before then.

But there was a point where I saw Cassidy and kind of made like a joke like what if she's a Luther? And she got a little squirmy you know, yeah, yeah, she didn't confirm anything, but she was squirmy.

Well it makes she's the red hair, Like it totally tracks like like of all these like you know, you mentioned like really who she might have been and absolutely just like this works so well and it justifies her being in all this. And also Lena Luther exists in the comics, so like she is a character, like they didn't anyway, Jenkins kid perfect Now that that timeline I don't think makes any sense. That's another conversation for another day. But it's it's.

Interesting, blinking Pamela Jenkins.

Before right, Yes, yeah, but it's you're right. This gives Tests something to do other than like I'm trying to save the world because of global warm or whatever whatever. Her high like we need the alien's help to save the plan. I'm like, what do you like? This is? This is a lot more tangible, right it is? And you're like, oh man, this kid's gonna grow into lex Like that's really a cool idea.

But the song really fit there too, because I was saying, it's almost like Tests was seeking a family, and so she gets to spend another day with family, and then somebody else gets to spend some time with some family.

Okay, so Clark is he got a letter from from Lois. Lois decides to go to Africa, and I did kind of laugh at this shot of Lois in Africa, like, oh, guys, we got to show Lois in Africa. What do we do? Like I don't know, like just have her stand on top of like a sand dune.

It was a beautiful shot.

Though it is, and obviously they explore and explain that a lot further in the next episode. That's what that's for. But it is kind of like she got saved by Clark, but she decides to go to Africa and way, and you know, they kind of dove into that next episode. But because she just leaves Clark kind of a Dear John letter. Clark getting these Dear John letters and videos from all these women in his life. Kobe didn't even leave him anything. So at least at least a lot

Am Jones christ Away now.

Eric Johnson, h Jen snackles. So I am gonna spin this entire season, I think trying to figure out how I feel about Ghost Dad Greg, because this scene is fantastic. Smallville is the blueprint right now bvs. Madmisonervant has a very similar scene to this, and this scene is much better, and we'll leave it at that, right but I'll just say Smallvel is the blueprint.

Well to me, and I know I've talked about this before on your show. I lost my dad when I was nineteen, pretty much the same age Clark was in Reckoning, and I definitely remember just times when I was younger thinking, oh I wish I could spend another day with my dad. So to see Clark in that kind of moment, like it was like that was like, you know, everybody's gone, Lois is gone, Martha's gone. You know, nobody's there, and

Indeed he does, Indeed he does.

But like I guess it's just it's the speech that Clark needed. Now, whether or not he imagined it or what, we will never know. Like, I don't think it's dark cybe manipulating him because he's tall.

No, this is positive stuff.

This is positive stuff exactly. So I never quite figured that out.

Well here's and it's one of those things where it's like the message and the moment and the emotions outweigh any sort of story mechanics, right, so whatever, right, I mean, what I'm not gonna say is he a real ghost? Like it doesn't matter. Right.

Well, also, apparently people like grow longer hair and get a little bit of weight.

And you know what's funny is John Start. He was at the Smallble season ten panel, right, and he came out and he wearing like, and I know it's just a black pants and a white shirt, but he's wearing like the Jonathan Kent outfit he was in when he died. I'm like, are you cosplaying as yourself here? I don't know.

That's great.

It's a fantastic scene. And again, we've all had people in our lives we love this one more day with it, right, So the song is very appropriate, yes, and in isolation it really works. And of course then you can like, oh, by the way, I look out for dark Side. I'm like, okay, throw it in that. You really didn't need that seasoned specific plot thing, but I understand why it's there. But he's like, he's man, Dad, Jarrell thinks some of a failures since when you care Jarrell thinks, I'm like, yeah,

You know, well, I remember I did not like that scene, and I was very vocal about it on Twitter, and I think the cloest fans really came after me that week because they they just thought that I was implying that Clark was out of character for the whole episode. Really, speaking of that moment being offensive.

Whenever I revisit that episode, it's so out of nowhere because I'm like, oh, it's the fun. It's like this fun Valentine's Day episode, right, and then it's like, oh, and then nine to eleven happens at the end, I'm like whoa, so like.

Yeah, and I mean, you know, people can make the you know, hand with oh the buildings were empty, but still, but the imagery.

It's the imagery is the problem.

The imagery and Superman doing that.

I did not like two towers in a downtown deenviartment. So I'm glad that Clark mentions this to his dad.

I think, emotional and outside it was emotional just doing a scene.

Together yet because he hadn't been. I'm so glad this exists, Craig, because like that that scene and void is fantastic. It's very similar to this actually right in the Afterlife, Right, but then John Shaddon comes back and like it's Brainiac and I'm like, hmmm, like I would hate if that was the last time we saw Jonathan Kann as like a brainiac mirage.

Right. I think it was a good time to bring Schneider back because any negative feelings he had had about his ending on the show had probably mostly flown out the door. So it was just like a moment of appreciation for both of them, and I thought that was fantastic.

Yeah, And to your point, I think had had they left Ghost Dad here as the one off, maybe that would have been beat. Now. I know he's responsible for the name of my podcast, so maybe it's for the best he came back. It's just you know what, you know what breaks ghost Dad. For me, Craig is when he's at the wedding and like a different outfit, all cleaned up, you know, uh huh, and then he's like hugging them together at the end, like there's like physical reintact.

I don't know, man, you know, I know it would have been the hugest cheat and they shouldn't have done it. But maybe they should have brought him over like they brought over the other Lionel.

Yeah. Earth just becomes this Jonathan yeah.

Yeah, or something. But I'm sure Perry White wouldn't like that.

Part of what he's still in Jonathan's I know what, I know what it feels like to kill. He's like I failed, and you know he's like, we walk in front of trials, Son, and it's all the measurer, man is you know how you react and face of those trials. And again it's just the the moral messages the Cants have always you know, passed down the Clark and really in this kind of this scene kind of absolves Clark from the guilt that he had because he always blamed himself.

I agree, this is a really well thought out episode. I mean, we talked about how like so many threads are being pulled together, but it really did have that vibe of you're about to get on this roller coaster ride, now get yourself seated in your right spot. And yeah, it was great.

And Clark he doubts himself at the end, and Jonathan says, you know, I have faith in your son. That's the last word from ghost dat Clark wilks again. So it's right, and he's gone. He was never there. So that's not

Beautiful shot.

It's on the cover of the Blu Ray series set. What what false advertising?

That is? No?

I just love that shot because it's like he is We're gonna be get episodes.

Maybe, Yeah, it's just it is false advertising, though, is it not to be on the complete series Blu Ray.

No more than some of the other like even the complete series DVD I think had that on there. Yeah.

Well also like the Funk co Pop one of the funk copops is the last shot of the show. Yeah, not good, but that's what I'm saying that. Some saying early like do you tease this in the first episode with the Superman costumes?

Here?

Like exhiding times, exciting times?

What up.

A very street Echanti? They said, he funded.

Very so what are you mad? Supermand it?

What if my soulmate comes along and I'm too blind to see it.

Just follow your heart and you'll always do the right thing. Wanting a magic past my way?

Word needs your quark?

What about what we need?

Man? Need it?

O sandcakes?

This he said?

Who are you?

Lois?

Lois?

Line three?

Hello, it's just tw.

And we know you're more than just a hero.

They're superhero.

Give me a nerd with glasses any day of the week.

Something dark is coming.

You're gonna be testing like you have never been tested.

For three s.

I know my destiny.

Smallville season premiere next Friday at eight seventh Central. Smallville Seatson premiere Friday, September twenty fourth on the c W.

New One, Blue ray and DVD. This is where it's all been leading you become. That's the greatest say it more than.

Two hours of special features the final season of Small Dale on Blue ray and DVD November twenty ninth, and on the Complete Series collection on DVD.

Lazarus got an eight point six out of ten on IMDb, and Douglas Trumbull from a Superman homepage gave it a five out of five. So, Craig, I ask you, on the letter grade scale, what would you give Lazarus a plus?

I freaking loved it.

Wow, Okay, we're really one of your favorite episodes of the series.

It really, it just was like, it just makes me happy. I mean, even if there are a few things that make no sense, I can overlook that just because it made me happy.

Fair enough, fair enough. I I'm going to give it an A minus for me. It's in the A range, okay, but there's like a few of these things. I'm like, Eh, if Rose Obama's in this that changes, it might earn that a flush.

Oh good, point. Yeah I can.

Yeah, but that's gonna be an a plus for you and a minus for me. Let's go to the tally board. Just a couple of things this episode amazing technicol or Kryptonite plus one that brings us to nineteen because we see the blue Kryptonite blade. I'm not counting Clark losing his powers because he already lost his powers from the blue crypt Knite in the last episode, so that carries over. Also Tests, she doesn't wake up in a hospital. She wakes up in like a lab, so that doesn't count

Oh that's weird, but Craig, that's going to do it.

We have completed our discussion on the final season premiere, small though, how do you feel?

I feel good about it, but I'm kind of sad we don't have any more season premiere's coming.

Yeah, that's it. Only we only had ten, so I know we need.

We need a couple more. I don't know like I just I had a lot of fun revisiting the feeling of what it was like to watch that season premiere, because it was a very exciting time.

It was a very special time just going into it knowing this was the final season and all the speculation, like they're clearly as we've been talk about the whole time, they're putting things in place, you know, to set up and continue throughout the season. Just just the fact that Lex is back in any form of any capacity is extremely exciting. And knowing that he's going to be this you know, we we don't know what form is gonna take. They didn't even know credit right exactly.

But also I think this, you know, this episode does show how much the series had evolved at the same time looking back. I mean obviously another probably a plus episode of the season for me was Homecoming, which did similar thing. It just celebrated the best of the series and it just made it rewarding. I'm very glad to have watched this episode again.

So yeah, absolutely, well, we could not do a final season of Smallville without talking to you, Craig. So if people want to find you and your work out there online, where can they find you?

Crypt on site still exists, so cryptonsite dot com. I sometimes update the Instagram at crypton site Official because crypt on site was taken at some point and I can't register it. I don't know why. But yeah, I'm still wortying about Superman stuff, including a new movie, and trying to find some like stuff from my archives that I can share. Again. That's been doing really well on the

Absolutely, and then k s I TV you know Superman Lowis coverage and all those other shows, right, Yeah, so.

Yeah, I've got k s I TV, which is my general TV news site. Hopefully we'll get some more comic book TV or you know, stuff to talk about. And yes we have the final season Superman Lowes Is coming up.

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean it's it's really an into an era for as far as comic television goes. At least, you know, on the broadcast.

We had too much at one point.

I will not disagree.

You know, it's like we don't need like I think part of what makes Smallville special is it was like the only one of its kind, the only show even remotely like it was Heroes and that was only around for four years of that run.

Yeah, which is much like Superman Returns. Heroes came and went yeah, blip blip on the radar when Smallville was still there.

I mean by the time Smallville was over, they were already planning Man of Steel. I think they might have already been filmed.

Yeah, maybe maybe that maybe by the end of that calendar year perhaps, Yeah, which is just just like.

I'm gonna go from Lex Luthor to being Jackson the next day.

Didn't even bother to grow his hair back, but exactly. But you got a shout shout out too. And though that he created Cydborg, he played Lex and he wanted to play jacksonar So Superman. He's got a Superman credentials for sure.

Absolutely.

Well, everybody go check out crypton site and case se TV. You know, I always post your image galleries reviews, you know, trying to keep trying to keep keep onside alive, you know, from people when they're revisiting Smavele, revisit all that stuff and just get caught up in the hype, you know, of each of those episodes and just reliving because those

Man, Oh, that was so much fun. Great. I mean, not as much fun as doing April Fooles obviously, but the captions were fun. I feel like some of the captions were probably meaner than I would do now. Yeah, a little inappropriate. Sometimes would not go there. But you know, it's a different time. I was younger. Uh, the internet

Man, that's that I had to stop. I'm reading it, you spoiler's page, because I was like, I want to be surprised.

I think the only reason I got away with it is because I remember Miles saying back then, He's like, oh, if it's on the internet, it's only a small part of the audience who knows.

What's Oh, how little he knew?

Yeah, how little do? But like like I am reading this, like I can't believe that I posted. I remember I think it was even Christmas Day. I remember posting, Oh, Chloe's gonna find out in Pariah And it's like what, Yeah, I would never get away with that now, No, Like Warner Brothers tould be calling me like take that down.

Although, and we talked about it as we wrap up here, right, I do want to shout out. We talked about you know you were on Arctic when we covered Arctic back in season seven. Yeah, that c W official description was worse than anything you ever could have put on your spoiler's page, crag. If you recall, it was like Kara who was secretly brainiac, Revell's Clark's secret to Lex and Lex and Clark infront of each other in the fortress of Solid Dude on the season finale. You know small.

I feel like their Vampire Diarus descriptions are similar and that they would like detail, like every plot point, and it's like you know, dial a Paclo and then now like the descriptions pretty much say nothing. It's like, oh, Superman in Lois find out something about Bruno Mannheim.

I love reading those on the always on Superman Lowis and laughing at how just just worthless.

Those s different is you know, you're talking about the Smallville photo galleries. We would sometimes get like twenty photos per episode, and now it's the modern air of the CW, it's like three or four.

Yeah, it's like, usually like what episode is this from? From Tyler's standing there in his costume, there's not really a lot of distinguishing stuff.

But yeah, and I feel like the final season, the Flash, I don't even think they released photos for the Flash finale. It could be wrong. And that's the finaley. Oh remember, I know it was a mistake, but uh, I feel like there were photos of the costume like an episode before we saw it, like before the finale. Oh maybe yeah, and it was in a photo gallery and it's like, wait a minute now.

Yeah, I don't recall, but sometimes sometimes that would whatever they released, they were like, oh, it's some kind of the wrong folder.

I do remember another thing that happened back then. I'd never posted on crypton site. I didn't allow it, but somebody found photos of Clark holding Jonathan's body from Reckoning deleted scene and that leaked like a couple of weeks before the episode aired.

Oh wows.

And you know, I didn't post I as a good boy, but they were out there somewhere. But it was easier to contain stuff back then.

Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, there's no social media the way it is now. But yeah, well, Craig Man, thanks so much for being on this episode and being on so many over the course of this podcast and being part of the Smallville journey. And I'm glad that we've become friends over this and uh, it's been a great journey man.

Sometime Yeah, maybe not again. You know, you've got you You're always holding onto everything. I'm sure you're gonna hold on to something. Oh you're gonna do Heroes, right.

Everybody wants me to, have been teasing it for years.

I do always hold on to heroes, and I will definitely want to.

Be on all right, I will. I feel like I'm obligated to at this point. You are, ye, so, but I'll say right now, it's it's not gonna be like always on the Smubble's not gonna end, and then always on Heroes is not going to start the next week. Okay, you know what I'm saying.

Well, I just also just wanted to point out your dedication is appreciated. You've been doing this for overt well, I'm sure you've done over two hundred episodes if you count all the Superman.

Special Yeah, with all the specials.

You know, like you've stuck with this whole journey, through thick and thin, through Angeles and thirst and everything in between. And I think that's amazing. So congratulations and I can't wait to hear the rest of the season.

For me.

Absolutely, Thank you so much, Greg, and as far as everybody else goes, thanks for listening, Keep on listening, and