5. You Guys Are Not Serious

Hey, can you don't your visit? Can you hear me? Andy?

Yes, I hear you can hear It's May twenty fourteen, and one the Colombian is calling Andy georg Escu in Los Angeles. Andy's told Wan that his guy Flavio has found someone to assist in getting weapons. He suggests they all meet Juan, Flavio and Andy in Italy to square away the deal. One is excited about this prospect, and he tells Andy that he sent an updated, expanded list of weapons that he wants to buy.

Okay, go ahead, all right, I send you are a note on the Skype. I'll tell you the list, okay, okay, So is there?

All right?

All right, I should be home tomorrow night. I call you when I get there. Okay, we'll still right, yeah, okay.

All right.

Well I'm done and I'm leaving the day after I talked to a little more. All right, okay, brother, take it out. Let me know if any questions please, it's important.

However, take you by a right all right phone call and your Jesus at five or three pm follow in time on Tuesday.

By six two and.

Fourteen, one in Colombia stops the recorder he's about to fly halfway across the world to meet with Andy and Flavia, or at least that's what he thinks. I'm Trevor Aronson from Western Sound and I Heart Podcasts. This is Alphabet Boys, Episode five. You guys are not serious. What I'm about to tell you is the most expensive example of gaslighting I've ever heard. A week after that phone call you heard, a couple of minutes ago, Juan flies to Rome along

All right, so are you going tomorrow?

I'm waiting.

I still didn't give the stuff to get care. Come on tomorrow. I'm the only one that I can go to.

The one up money for.

The guys just's available tomorrow.

But that's.

There to get someone, I'm trying to get somebody to come the word.

Okay, let me ask you this, let me let's send let's be sending see it to each other.

What is going on? Are you gonna comply with me? Man, don't let me down. Please, No, I'm.

Not letting you down.

What Andy is saying it's bizarre. He'd promise Wan he'd be in Italy. Now he's saying something about Abu Dhabi, but Andy says, don't worry, Flavio is still coming. So he gives one Flavio's number. A couple of days past, one calls and calls, and all he gets is Flavio's voicemail.

To strug You make me up name, a phone number and a police message, and I'll count at you as soon as possible.

Thank you, Flavio.

Vermoning is one as have your message on your UK number, But Anne says for me to call you on this number as well. When on your phone call so we can plan a meeting tomorrow. First thing Flavio give me a call back is now Wednesday, eight o'clock am in Rome.

Thank you. Right.

Consider this from one's perspective. He boarded a flight in Colombia with two revolutionaries from the jungle. There are no direct flights from Bogata to Rome with one or two layovers. Wan and his colleagues are looking at about twenty four hours of travel time in a six hour time difference. They land, they take a taxi from the airport, They check into a hotel. They shower with you know, those

Yes, Andy, I call him and no call by I know you about to go to sleep, or please call him. I ask him to call me, otherwise we're gonna waste Wednesday as well.

And this I need to live.

I don't know that the culture several folk, I mean's all possible. Face So he'll get it and he'll call you don't he will coach.

It's tough to hear. But Andy says he doesn't know what's happening. Maybe Flavio fell asleep. But don't worry, he sures Wan, Flavio is going to call, all right.

I want to wait for it.

Do you probably want to call him as well? Because you know the time goes by today ways at the morning Stursday, we're running out of the time. Yeah, no, no, no, we're not okay, brother, see you later. Way calls on the fourteenth of Fight twenty fourteen Local time is uh a fifty am in drome read Daly.

That call ended at eight fifty am. As you heard Wan state, it was recorded by eight pm. Flavio still hasn't called him, and so Wan called Andy again.

And the and the Andy.

You don't kill him, brother, you call.

I never called.

Maybe he's playing or something. But he's supposed to flight yesterday life. Maybe he's sleeping.

I don't know what.

He didn't call you. You called me back just to get get that stuff.

Only you gotta listen, listen to this straight. There's no one who's can tell me. So I don't, I don't. I can't hang around. I'm just gonna leave.

And then it's okay, don't Probably if you couldn't make it this time, you'll make it the next time around.

Just be honest with me.

Correct, But I'm very honest.

Again, from Want's perspective, he's been talking to Andy for two years. Finally this mysterious Flavio guy is going to help him get his weapons. But now the moment of truth and nothing. Then again from Andy's perspective, this Colombian guy has been putting up with his delays for a very long time, a surprising amount of time. What's a few more hours. And he's like, come on, man, I

Well, let me let me tell you this tomorrow. It's only so many hours. We're gonna meet from end of the morning, having them look at night. Then I gotta go to sleep because I need to be out there for on the wee hours of the morning.

We all have I have.

These people with me. They're not with me right now, but I have to have them visit that it's not your fault. Otherwise again, they want to think that you're full of it.

I have these people with me, while tells Andy, referring to the two Colombian colleagues who joined him on the trip to Rome. If Andy or Andy's friend Flavio doesn't show up, they're going to think you're full of it. In other words, this could kill any potential for a deal. One informs Andy that if he wants the salvage things. He's gotta find this I Flavio, and that has to happen very soon.

I totally understand.

No, No, that's I mean.

Going down find the guy called me in a three way and we can talk. Please, Okay, all right, okay, I see you the next morning.

Flavio still hasn't called, so Wan calls Andy yet again.

He needs to call me now. I'll leave it in the hotel. I leave it in the hotel at seven in the morning.

Okay, No, you don't want to come by seven talk about I won't call him right now doing this number two, the other number they're still got work, don't gonna work.

I think he's out all time, out of money. Okay, all right, see if you can't hold me now, I don't mind, but I have one more jump on the showery.

All right, another day passes. Wan is now supposed to fly out of Rome in hours.

Then hello, hello, Flavio, what's going on?

This is the moment Wan's been waiting for. Juan and Flavio are finally talking more after the break this international arms deal. It's not exactly going smoothly. Juan is scheduled the flat of Rome in just a few hours, and he's finally talking to Flavio, who was supposed to meet in person with one days ago.

You know, like all the time when you're living a message, I just shoot the number without the area for it. I didn't know how can I die? I'd say it was trying try.

Yeah.

Flavia's excuse for not calling is that he couldn't see a properly formatted number on a Smith's calls. One is audibly skeptical. Uh huh, he.

Says, where are you now?

Right now, I'm in London and just finally I got a guy which she wants to It's from Mania.

Flavia is referring to someone who can actually sell the weapons to one. He's got a guy now, apparently.

Well, let me ask you.

I understand you were in New York this week according to your concert to Andy.

Oh One consistently refers to Flavio and Andy cousins. They aren't related, but neither Andy nor Flavio bothers to correct him.

I already came on, spending a week here waiting for so one to show up, and no one show up. I'm living in three hours back to the to the United States. Okay, why not you your guy, Why you or your guy can't come to Miami in a couple of weeks and we can't talk. No big deal, you didn't make it. You didn't make it when it's gonna be hard for me to come back to Europe when I came the first time. On one show up, you have to understand that.

Flavio blames Andy for the mix up, saying he wasn't given enough notice for the Italy trip and that he had never confirmed to Andy that he could even make it to Italy. But Flavio assures one that he's a serious guy, that he's on top of this deal and he has the contact they need to move forward.

Actually, I have to I have to talk with this guy from Romania, which expession handing business the right person which we have to talk.

Okay, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. I know this is the first time you and I are talking. I really appreciate you calling me back. You know it took a few days, but here you are talking to me. Is there any way possible that you guy in Romania can't call me used to say hello? You can give me his phone number. I will not talk business. I just want to say hello to the guy. The gentleman can't hear my boys, I can't hear his, and then we can make some kind of an arrangement

Okay.

I spend a day or two and we talk business, because that's a lot of things we can not talk over the phone. We need to see each other face to.

Face, basically one saying we need to do these super secret meetings about illegal stuff in person. And after this, I'm not traveling anywhere else for a while. You guys need to come to me. You blew it for now. Flavia is contrite and apologizes that once trip to Italy didn't work out.

And oh, you know, I'm really studied my apology by things like that. You know I have, I have, and you know, you know, people are hard to catch real people to talk with it. They try all the time, and sometimes they say thet if like a lo profile, he's not, he's not, He's.

I hear you. But the best way to do this is for him. For you guys to come I to Miami. That's the only way.

Really.

I already spend my times and spend my time, so you need to come.

Yeah, exactly. I had to tell your point, like you like you have one to rights. Don't be really happy because the stay there with no reasons.

I asked Flavia, what was happening behind the scenes during the Italy fiasco? Why didn't you show up in Roame?

Andy hel was call me and tells me in the night, he said, you have to fly tomorrow to Italy to meet this Columbian guy. He's around with business.

Flavio says Andy was moving things too fast and made him nervous.

Andy he was very pushed me to send me money and he was having like half million dollars from Juani his accounting. I was scared, be honest with you all the whole time, was I was scared.

Flavio says that Andy had allegedly received money from one and Andy was insistent that he sent Flavio some cash. He offered as much as one hundred and fifty thousand dollars as an advance on what Flavio would earn broker in the arms deal. But Flavio says he didn't want any of Wan's money landing in his account that would have compromised him. And he says he couldn't be compromised since he was working with the CIA. And I should point out here that Flavio and the evidence in his

And all the time I push him around, I push him on, no I have money, I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm okay. Well, the time was chicking my account because if I see that balance, at least to reverse the transaction, because I know if I take money that one is a crime. And that's why at one point I push him away and I said, let me talk with one directly, because he was really pressing me all the time with the money. With the money, he will try to lock me up the way I will trying to lock everybody.

I work with you.

That means I give you the framework and let you know in April twenty twelve what I'm gonna do for you right now. Let me produce all those things and put it together.

And I said, I want to pause for a minute, because what Flavio mentions here, It's important to remember Flavio called the CIA in April twenty twelve and told the agents about Andy and Wan. He told the agents pretty much everything. The first conversation Flavio has with one is in May twenty fourteen, two years later. In that two year period, Flavio never calls the CIA, and the CIA never calls Flavia. Make of that what you will. And I don't say that flippantly. I mean make a mental

Listen, listen, listen.

If you cannot do it, then let's forget about this. I cannot you. Guys, don't have you, guys have no serious.

This is from a later call one has with Flavia. He dresses him down for being a no show in Rome and for constantly changing plans.

You change every five minutes.

You want a play by your rules and a time to undug and when the first time you told me it wasn't your fault and now you're telling me a different story. I don't care about Andy, I don't care about you. I don't care only about my business. If you're gonna work with me, we need to be serious about working. That's a bottom line.

So you need to.

Understand my position. These people have no game. No they don't play games. As you say, these people you know as serious. I can't get in trouble with them back at home because of not keeping my work. You need to understand that this is a serious business. If you guys are not ready to do this, then forget about it.

One leaves it all out, insinuating in so many words that his bosses are serious, they don't play games, they're killers. But One doesn't want to walk away from Flavio. He stays in this burgeoning deal, appearing to think that Flavio can make good on his promises to deliver, and One isn't operating solely on blind faith. Flavio engages Wan in a big way after the Italy trip, with Flavio and Wan speaking regularly by phone.

Now I have okay, good, good, Okay, I find I want I find perfect, perfect perfect.

The solution Flavio finds is an arms dealer who has connections to a manufacturer in Ukraine. That's after the break.

Hey, Flavio, how are you? I was talking to your friend, Jim hints from uh dear.

Okay, Flavio has put one in touch with a guy named Guintautis. Flavio doesn't know Gintautus, someone Flavio knows in Romania had referred him, so Flavio put him in touch directly with Wan. Gintautas has connections with an arms manufacturer in Ukraine. He can act as a broker between Wan and Ukrainian factory.

Yeah, okay, okay, good, well he this is the guy, This is the main guy, right that you say, Yeah, he's a killer.

The reason Wan is calling Flavio now is that he's just talked to Ginetoutis and Wand's impressed. He thinks Favia is right. This is the solution. Gintautis can make this arm steal happen.

Okay, all right, all right, Well he's gonna call me tomorrow. He's going to change he's a schedule. He's not gonna gook to Africa, but he's gonna let me know tomorrow for sure that he's gonna meet me in Rome on the twenty second.

Okay, Wan and Flavio had been tentatively discussing another trip to Rome. Wan is hesitant about making a second trip after having already been stood up once. But this Gintoutis guy, he's changing things for Wan. If he'll be there one says he might be willing to give Rome a second try.

Don't bring any one, don't bring Daddy, don't bring no fighty.

Flavio tells Juan that gin Tautus is a careful operator. One can't bring a bunch of people to a meeting with him. This is secret agent stuff.

Your ceres, your seasiness. If you bring more people into his business, you lose it.

No, no, no no, I'll be there by myself, Olivia. I'm gonna have these two other Colombians in town, but they will not come to the meeting because I already explained to him that you didn't show up, not because it was your fall.

I know what's on this fall now.

You told me this is gonna be pretty much of a short thing. I need I need you to tell him. No, I tell him him person, I tell him in person. Why not you do me a favor of you.

Talk with them than I thank your sixness is right now with his whole name.

Okay, listen, you need to meet me there in Rome. You don't have to go to the meeting with him. You need to meet me there in room for breakfast on a twenty second and then we can discuss how I'm gonna take care of you.

Once recording ends abruptly there, but he tells Flavia that King Tautus is coming to meet him in Rome and Flavio needs to be in town so they can discuss how Wan's going to take care of Flavio. That is, how Flavio's going to get paid. One is definitely excited, you can hear it in his voice, but it's excitement doesn't last. On July twelfth, twenty fourteen, two days after talking to Gintautis, One calls Flavio.

Te Flavio, Flavio, give me a call as soon as possible, very origin is One, call me as soon as possible.

It's urgent. Please thank you.

Ten minutes later, Flavio returns Wan's call.

Hello, Hey, I got a serious problem. I spoke to your friend the Russian and he and he fails with that he cannot help me. That he was that he has some kind of a misunderstanding or mission between between you guys. I think that's what he said, and that he cannot that whatever I'm trying to louis beyond what he can't do.

So you need to talk to him.

Make sure that he understands because I told him, Look, what what what do.

We used mean?

I'm talking because maybe you're missing something on translation when someone talks to you and maybe they're missing something.

He says, no, no, I won't be able to help you.

One also gets in touch with Andy.

I don't know what.

Something spooked him. Andy tells one. What Andy means, Istas has broken off community cations and he's not coming to Rome. It's radio silence from him. He's not talking to anybody anymore.

Well, I think he said was that there was a misunderstanding between him and his friends, her friends.

Guy, you are you guys or whoever?

Is on between somebody somebody hired. Well, something stooked him. I mean, you know, well what I'm gonna find out what.

I didn't push it, but the guy was very nice. He knew it was me. Hey Juan, Yeah, I know he does.

She does. But I mean it's like, you know, he's something stooked him.

Yeah, guing Tautus is spooked. That's true. What Wan and Andy don't know is that the problem is Wan, after talking to Juan Gintautas, sent an email to the person who originally connected him with Flavio ging Tautus wrote, if you ever bring me clients like this again, I will never answer the phone for you. Guan Tutis includes in his email a news article about a man from Africa named Foulsy Jabber. Just three months before King Tutus has

This is a meeting between CS one, two.

And three and Fabrio Georgeski Christ John In two young known males in Laudos something I want to head.

You may have guessed this because it's kind of weird that someone with the FARC would record their conversations, but one is not with the FARC. He's with the DEA. That's in the next episode. This is up in arms, season two of Alphabet Boys. Alphabet Boys is a production of Western Sound and iHeart Podcasts. The show is reported, written and hosted by me Trevor Aaronson. For more information about this series or to drop us a tip, head to our website Alphabet Boys dot xyz. You can contact