2. The Calls

So let's say you want to call the CIA, the Central Intelligence Agency. How would you do it? Back in twenty twelve, it was easy.

It was a whole number on the website.

You just typed CIA dot gov. Back then, the agency had a number listed. That's no longer the case today. You have to fill out an online form. But in April twenty twelve, Flavio Georgescu finds the number and he calls it. Ah, this is a recording of that actual call.

Good afternoon, how can I help you?

Hi? Flavio? And I was born in Romania, but right now I'm I'm a USPP.

Then, just a few minutes earlier, Flavio's friend Andy called him, asking him if he could arrange a weapons deal for some Colombians. There'd be a lot of money in it for both of them.

Andy tells Flavio, and right now, I'm in Romania and I have an information for you, and I want to be in touch with one of your agency over here in Romania order.

I know you have an office in Austria. Okay, right over there.

What's your social Security number?

Flavio, a naturalized US citizen, says the matter at hand is urgent, he needs to speak in person with a CIA official in Europe. The agent on the phone sounds skeptical.

I need to talk with someone personally over.

Here or in Okay, then you need to go to Then you need to go to the embassy then, because if you don't want to tell me over the phone, I'm not going to send somebody out to meet you, Okay. If you only need if you need to talk in person only, then you need to go to the embassy.

No, I'm not going there because you know I was born here and I know I'm not trusting people over killing in Romania. That's what I try to keep personally.

It is something about what Flavia is saying here is that he doesn't want to just walk into the US embassy in Romania to make a report. You have to remember the secret police that dominated Romania during Flavia's childhood. They still have him a little paranoid. He doesn't want to risk being seen.

Okay, So one.

Quality you can tell me over the phone. You can write an email on the public website. If you go to CIA dot DOV and go to contact us, you can write it all out, or you can go to the embassy. Those are your three options, because I'm not sending anybody out to meet you.

Now, think of this interaction from the agent's point of view. Some random guy in Romania calling in to say, Hey, I got a hot tip. Can you send out an agent?

Okay, let me talk with you.

So Flavio starts to talk. He explains that one of his contacts has a client from Colombia who's asking if Flavio can help him find weapons.

Okay, and how do you know this person? Why would they go? Now?

They are not really big. They they're looking. They want to poin me for it because I'm really really connected.

All right, How are you really really connected?

Because everyone knows me.

You know, I go because everyone knows you to get them weapons. You just told me they contacted you to get grenades and stuff. So what kind of connections do you have? Because of its criminal connections? Then the CIA doesn't want to have anything to do with it.

He's not any criminal connections.

This CIA agent is very skeptical. But and this is important, here's Flavio in this very first call, telling the CIA everything about the very crime the Justice Department will later accuse him of committee. I'm Trevor Aronson from West and Sound and iHeart Podcasts. This is Alphabet Boys, Episode two the Calls. In the early two thousands, after establishing a reputation as an all around fixer for wealthy Eastern Europeans

Up company I Friends was having a lot of a lot of employees in Europe. There will set up some locations, for example in Romania, there was ning up place and the people was coming to work over there, and I was doing the fiber optic, the computers, the webcam and everything.

I Friends has now shut down, but you can still view the website on the Internet Archive. It warn't users that it's community contained what I Friends termed red light zones.

There was having sections by different categories like adults, socializing of friends, all kinds of things.

I Friends wasn't exclusively adult oriented, but it provided one of the earliest platforms for so called camgirls, think only fans or chatterbait, both small, grainy, stuttering videos. I Friends helped pioneer the adult oriented internet we know today. In nineteen ninety nine, a couple living in Florida became the first to be prosecuted for obscenity for sexual acts performed at home. They were charged with promoting obscene material for

It's true I was providing the fiber optic I was providing hardware like computers with comes a die key part.

But Flavio says he discouraged adult oriented operators as much as he could. He didn't like the idea that a major global export of his native Romania was naked ladies. There's a reason I mentioned Flavio's pearl clutching at pornography. Flavio's actions often seem to be rooted in a strong sense of morality, and if you're inclined to believe Flavio's story, his moral compass is ultimately what gets him on a

He calls me and he said, I'm I have a Columbian partner or I need some guns to fight with the American government in Colombia. I said, you know, I mean I don't do any guns. I don't have no connections. I'm to keep insisting, saying in the conversation, I mat me give you all his bone. He said, at least pretend, just pretend you're gonna sell him the guns, because I have some deals with him.

Flavio tells Andy that he'll look into it, and he tells Andy maybe he could make something happen. He says he could probably find the right people.

I hang up the phone. Five ten minutes later, I call CIA.

I let them know, Ah, good afternoon.

How can I help you.

More?

After the break, Flavio's called the CIA asking to meet with an agent.

The first lady she didn't want to talk with me. She was keep sending me to the US embassy.

And the CIA agent is very skeptical.

If you don't want to tell me over the phone, I'm not going to send somebody out to meet you, Okay, if you only need if you need to talk in person only. Then you need to go to the embassy.

People knows me in the embassy, I have I used to have friends over there working over there. I'm don Alue Delusion talking about some nonsense things, and I said, no, send me to Vienna. You have a center to collect intelligence in Vienna. Send you over there in Austria, and I'm going to talk over there with somebody and we see what's going on from there, and we're going to do a strategy.

The CIA agent Flavio is talking to you. She doesn't appear to think Flavio is for real.

Okay, So you do personal security all over the world. You're connected to all these different people, and you had somebody call you and say, can you get grenades and guns for this guy in Columbia.

Not specified grades. A lot of ammunitions, ammunition AK forty seven, A lot of them.

Okay. So what I'm telling you, as a US set ofcent go to the US, the American Embassy, and tell them you need to speak with someone.

Okay, yeah, this is the easy way for you, but you know a lot of Okay, well, no, it's not the easy way for me. You're being very difficult. You run a business, but you don't have a name for your business. It's just you're telling me that you're very, very connected, but people are calling you to get ammunition and AK forty sevens. So it really doesn't sound like anything that we can discuss.

Over the phone. So I'm telling you, for your safety, you need to go to the US embassy. Okay, well we can't help you. Thank you, goodbye, And she ain't got the phone.

And after that I got a call back saying that person, the second one, oh, my name is such an inside of one, and we start to talk.

In other words, Despite all the skepticism and well attitude of that CIA agent, Flavio's tip got escalated to another CIA agent.

Okay, well, as I understand it, I don't. I don't think there was anything that the agency could do to assister facilitate what you're trying to accomplish.

This is that second agent.

We didn't have anyone that can commute with you. And I was just like, see determination.

Yeah, I was always just try to be useful to the US government because I love that country and you know, I'm so proud to be a Yes Cities and that orders. You know, if it is not anything interesting for you. I don't care because I'm not doing any deal. I'm not going to to help these people. But I was thinking you have any interesting in this situation because it's easy to follow up these people, you know, which maybe through case for you or you know, you have to know everything which has happened.

Flavio is again saying directly to the CIA, Hey, American Intelligence Agency, these guys seem like illegal arms traffickers. You want to maybe do something about it. If so, great, but if not, no worries. If you don't want this CIA all good, I'll drop it.

Well.

I mean, if you were forcefright with all the details, then we could verify your story. That's something we might look into and pass to the right authorities.

This is the moment when this whole story could have stopped. But suddenly, with Flavio acting all cooi, the agent now seems a little more interested and he starts asking Flavio questions.

You said you have a company, a personal security No.

No, I work for some prime with people like I'm of security advisor.

I throw up the theme for you on Flavio is basically saying he's a fixer, a guy who has relationships and can make things happen, expensive things harder, ring services. He's vague, but then again, fixers are supposed to be discreet.

A guy from Los Angeles, he said, you know, I have some clients. They want to do it. The first deal for ten million dollars, which is not that big, but they want to see everything goes smoothly and everything is perfect. And I says, okay, what they needed. And they send it two different lists with the merchandises they need. And they said, I asked for the first time, I ask for the end user certificate. You know what the end user certificate? It is.

No, I'm not famliy wather.

Oh and here's a certificate. It is a paper which has to prove to the factor which is the end user for this kind of ammunition, for this kind of guns, for everything. You know.

Flavio mentioned something there called an end user certificate. This is something that people who have experienced doing weapons deals know all about. Legitimate international weapons deals require an official piece of paper certifying the final destination for the weapons. In other words, the end user certificate certifies that a the buyer is a legitimate weapons purchaser. B the buyer is going to be the one actually using the weapons, and c the buyer doesn't intend to transfer these weapons

And when I must for that, when I ask for this paper, they says, no, we don't have one, and maybe if we increase the price, can use a middle man in the STANSA. Can I say, you know, our conversation has to end right now because I'm not getting involved in anything like that. And they says, you know, maybe you think about blah blah blah, good money.

You know, Flavio is saying that Andy told him that the Colombian buyer doesn't have an end user certificate. But if Flavio can arrange for an end user certificate, there'd be some big money in that.

Believe me or not, you don't know me. But when I have the chance to help US government and help that country, I consider my country too. I help them. Every time on FBA needs me for Russians Romanians, which they do a lot of it things in the United States, I help them. And with my help, a lot of government confiscate a lot of cash, a lot of houses, a lot of cash, you know, I bring someoney to their Uncle Sam. All the time.

Flavio speaks fast with a thick Romanian accent, and it's unclear how closely the CIA agent on the phone is paying attention. For all I know, he could be doodling in a notepad while Flavio is spilling his guts. It might have been easy for him to miss what Flavio just said. Maybe you even missed it. Flavio said, every time when the FBI needs me for Russians Romanians, I help them, and with my help, the government has confiscated a lot of cash, a lot of houses, a lot

Because I'm not sure. With all my respect for you, uh and for your time with you, stay with me on the phone. I'm not that kind of person to come to the United States and take the cash to bring it outside. I'm the kind I'm the kind of guy to bring the cash to the United States, you know, I you know, I considered da country in mine. You know, I live over there, and I'm so happy.

But the CIA guy, he's not exactly sold.

And we you have to understand from our respects that we have to be able to that and confirm the things that you're you're telling us because a lot of people call I know what with all this information and context, So when we ask these questions, that's we're simply I know.

I know that. I know that because it was the same dreer with the FBI. Okay, you know that means I know the procedures, I know the The only thing which I was involved all the times, my my begging it is my quis series who don't be HII.

So this whole thing is getting more complicated.

Again.

Flavio is claiming to the CIA agent that he's worked as a trusted source for the FBI. He says he's willing to provide information everything he knows, but he's also saying right here in this introductory conversation that he doesn't want to be called as a witness in court and the CIA guy he sounds tired. He appears to be just going through the motions.

Or I can take this further. Let me get your your spelling of your first name, because I was told is it Slavio.

Flavio spells his first name, which has an unusual spelling.

A Z I.

You are you as in uniform?

He is in uniform?

Sorry it is Finally the CIA guy appears ready to engage. Let's talk about this armstel that's after the break.

Okay, do you have specific contact information on these people that are you know, attempting to buy the ammunitions.

The CIA agent on the phone with Flavio has finally come around. He wants to know specifics about this supposed weapons steal.

Okay, the thing it is like that the guy, the guy in Los Angeles is Romanian. He owns the big shipping company. You know, these kind of people they don't accept in this kind of deals middlemen. When they heard about middle men, they get in crazy. They're around so so fat, you know they are not They don't like it the middleman, because you know, middle man can be

Adad him on my phone for a second.

Please, I let you.

Know why you war.

Earlier that day, Andy had emailed Flavio a list of weapons that won the Colombian wants to purchase. Flavio reads it to the CIA agent.

Okay, the first one it is a K forty seven seven point six two millimeasures and five point forty five million measures lp G seven.

Uh.

Second one it's M for carabine. Okay. The man that one okay's on the email. On the paper, there's anti personal mind.

Whatever you have in stuck. Uh. The world to start will be one thousand, one thousand.

Pieces of each item. Please advise the price and availability.

One thousand pieces of AARs. So you're looking for a thousand A k's a thousand and four A thousand anti personnel minds, is what you understood.

Yeah? And also this is the first SLEEP and I have another one with similar products.

Okay, so what is your role specifically telling me?

They were telling me something like that, which I know from the guy from Los Angeles, which is the you know, the logistic company. They offered the money in cash or you know, in powders, in drugs, whatever is more convenient whatever.

Flavia's accent makes it easy to miss, but he says powder as in cocaine. Flavia was telling the CIA that the Colombians have offered to buy weapons with either cash or cocaine or both.

Yeah, this guy from Miami, they are call Indian citizens and they have they have the guerilla and stuff like that over there.

Okay, so they're trying to purchase weapons. I mean, where is the end location for the weapons.

Backs? And what is the end uh the end user? And they said it's it's Columbia. But they asked me if I can provide the middle country in this transaction, you know, like let's let's we do the shipping in Africa, in you know, in Jeya and from there to Columbia.

You know, Flavio again tells the agent that he asked about the end user certificate and the response was basically, we don't have one, so we can pay you more. Wink wink. This is illegal, And I.

Said, you know, let me think about. It's not a deal which I dream every day. You know, I tried to buy the time, you know, I.

Tried to buy time, Flavia says, appearing to suggest that he's stalling so he can have this conversation with the CIA before proceeding with anything else.

If you want to find more, you have to allow me to continue the deal and the thing it is which I would try to provide this information to you. You know, you have a lot of headache in Columbia all the time, and a lot of agents were killed over there, and you know I'm not happy with that.

Flavio tels the agent, these weapons will ultimately go to Colombia, a place where American service members can get killed.

That's why why I would, you know, try to provide this information to you, because I know it's not it's not any any problem for United States because it's not these guns. They don't go in Unite the State. They go to Columbia.

But it is now you know you want need.

The Toba fund.

I understand what you're go ahead, passenger us and I do appreciate why you're telling us. It's definitely something that if we can verify, would be of interest to the agency to be aware of. You know again particulars guns are going to.

Yeah, because you know when you go to interest something, Yeah, when you go to in this again, something in Colombia. Anything, you know, it's something someone's traveler twa rock to you. It's one thing when someone comes with take me forty seven, you are not really happy.

You know, you have family, you have stamilies all over every age agent has family in United States. Keeps stuff like that. We have to go take each other, which is the way we have to work together.

Flavio is appealing to the agent's patriotism. I'm an American too. I'm trying to protect American.

Lives because the thing is deprecating each other about us. We are okay if we are not thinking like that. You know, if you say, oh, why by myself selfish I don't care what's happened, but in your back, that's why we have had of all the time.

No, I certain understand that. How how when I get back in touch with you with any questions?

Flavio gives him his phone number.

I want to send this information to an internal desk here for inside purposes only, so they can look at it for interest and begin to investigate.

The CIA guy assures Flavia that the agency will look into his information, but Flavio wants more than that. Let me work for you, Flavio tells the CIA agent, we have to.

Find out the way we does go from here today. You know this is my idea, but we have to go forward for forward, to see everything how they work, because if they do this deal, for sure, he is not the first one one percent, I guarantee you.

Flavio then assures the agent that he's not looking for anything. He doesn't need money, He's done in trouble. He just wants to help. He says, he wants to be a good American.

I'm not coming with you like a lot of people comes to you, and maybe this is you know, I give you something and I need some feedback, you know, because you get this kind of deals every day, for sure.

The agent tells Flavia again that the CIA will look into what he's reporting.

Before I can move forward with this, And again, I appreciate you bringing this information to our attention, and I'll certainly tread carefully as we say, as far as how we rediscuss this issuear here at the agency.

The agent takes down all of Flavia's contact information and suggests the CIA might be in touch with them soon.

Well, sir, I have enough information. I get started on it. Thank you again. I will pass it on and hopefully they'll be in touch with you.

Nope, okay, okay, call God live you and hopefully we'll start from here.

Yes. Likewise, best of luck to.

You right.

Now.

If you were on the phone here, what would you think? What would you do? According to Flavio, this rambling call was an agreement. Flavio says it was an oral contract. He told the CIA about the deal. The CIA said, thank you, we'll look into it. Flavio says he thinks at this point he's working for the CIA to collect information about how weapons are being shipped to Colombian rebels.

I was so excited, that's it. I'm going to right now, I'm going to prove myself why I am. I'm going to take you to a different level. A FBI was nothing.

FBI was nothing, Flavio says. What he means is that the case he was planning to build for the CIA, it would make whatever he was doing before with the FBI look like child's play. Here's what I don't know. I don't know if the CIA ever actually looked into Flavio. Flavio told the agents on the phone that he had worked for the FBI, But did CIA agents contact their

He's a little bit of a strange guy.

Flavio had asked FBI agents to refer to him as a friend, not an informant, and I found Flavio's friend the FBI handler.

Flavio was not involved in criminal activity at all. In what he would do is he would just talk to people in the Romaining community and hear their concerns and provide that information. The main reason he did that is because he knew that if anyone else provided that information, they would be in danger. And that's unusual. You usually don't run across people like that.

That's in the next episode. This is up in Arms, season two of Alphabet Boys. Alphabet Boys is a production of Western Sound and iHeart Podcasts. The show is reported, written and hosted by me Trevor Aaronson. For more information about this series or to drop us a tip, head to our website Alphabet Boys dot xyz. You can contact me on Twitter or Instagram at Trevor Aaronson. The show's Instagram is Alphabet Boys dot pod. If you're enjoying Alphabet Boys,