Pet Sematary - Ep. 120

It's cursed. Death has come to your little town, Sheriff. It's real fun. Why do you want to know, Mike? I want to know who I'm looking at. Whatever you do.

Hello and welcome to episode 120 on Pet Sematary. Welcome. Happy November, everybody. I'm sitting here, of course, with my best bud, Mike. Mike, what's going on, man? What's going on is I realized that we picked the most... fucked up family movie during November Thanksgiving time to talk about. We did. I'm glad you brought that up because that's a good theme of the movie.

Thanksgiving is a time for family, and this is definitely a twisted family tale. This is very twisted, but I'm excited to get into this one, Matt. So what's been going on, Matt? What have you been watching or doing or anything? So, Mike, I caught up with Terrifier 3. Oh God. Okay. I know you, this is the one you had a day off or whatever. I don't, did you take off to see this? You had to know, no, I think I was, was I sick? I was like recovering from being sick and like,

Like I just went or something. I forget. There was a reason why I was off from school and I just went. Yeah. So we talked about Trick or Treats on the second Trick or Treats, not the one that we just did in October, but the one last year from 2024. We talked about the second movie. The second movie, yep. And I just caught up with this now.

Yeah, the third one. It took me a while. And it just reaffirmed the fact that these movies are not made for me. Not for me either. From the opening scene, I knew, and I looked at the clock, and there was still that opening scene with the, obviously, shown in the trailer, the young girl.

Yes. Of the Christmas tree in the family. And just the fact that he walks in and you go upstairs and you just hear him chopping the little brother up or the older, whatever, the older brother. Yeah. That's sleeping in his bed. Yeah. I'm like, okay, there's an hour and 50 minutes of this left. Do I just duck out? There's so much more to get into here of torture for me. The only point of this movie, obviously, is to nauseate. I think that's definitely done.

Check box. There you go. You've nauseated me. I do think this movie has some merit because there is something I actually like about this movie. Okay. Because I think Damien Leone is very, he's kind of a smart guy. He's got his fingers on the pulse of like social commentary.

And what I think he's doing here a little bit is he's taking the piss out of these people that were fascinated with serial killers. He really is. Because if you look at that, ever since Mindhunter came out on Netflix in like 2017. Great show. Right, but you have to admit that that's a watershed moment. People just were suddenly like, I am enamored with serial killers. It's the most interesting thing ever. Now I know their minds and I'm figuring...

People just have been in love with this, right? Yep. So there's that one girl. What does she have? She has a podcast, right? Yes. And the blonde? Yes. That's in the infamous shower scene. Right. Right? And no one would ever truly... I mean, as much as you love it, would you ever really...

People talk about, oh, you know, like she says it. I want to feel him. I would just wonder what his breath would feel like. I want to be in his presence. They're so enamored with it. They're like, I just wish I was there. No, you don't. No, you really don't. No, you don't. And when art...

has the chainsaw and he's standing in the shower and he's looking at her. He had heard her earlier talking about it. Yeah. Right. He's excited. And he basically gives this look and he's like, well, I heard you. And how does it feel now? that I'm standing right in front of you. I'm about to dismember your body. How do you feel about me now?

No, but like Damien Leone saying, you know what people, you don't really meet, like as enamored you are with this, you don't, you would never want to be in the presence of a serial killer. You just wouldn't. It's just too freaky. Yeah. But people are like, yeah, man, I love, I just want to be there, man. I want to like.

be his right wingman or be in the room when it happens. No, you don't. No, you don't because this is what happens. This is what he's saying. He's laughing at everyone. He kind of is. And I think that's kind of cool. I think he kind of winked.

I got his wink. Yes. Yes. I remember texting you right after I saw it. And I was like, Matt, guess what I just saw? It was just like, I don't even know why I did this to myself. You know what I mean? And I stayed through the whole movie, which is. And it made a lot of money. It did. And people love it.

And I agree. And it's good for horror. And I celebrate the fact that it's good for horror. And art is an absolute horror icon, whether you like him or not. Right. It's an absolute horror icon. You cannot dispute that. I will not dispute that. Yeah.

But so I did share something I liked, even though it's not a movie for me. Sure. I just wanted to find something in it that I'm like, oh, I thought that was really clever. Right. And I'm glad he did. I thought it was cool. Yeah, that is cool. But what did you say?

This is more of a TV show. I don't know if you heard about this show Pluribus on Apple TV Plus by Vince Gilligan, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The guy from Breaking Bad. Breaking Bad. It's really good. My wife and I watched it. There's only three episodes out. It's really interesting. Apple TV? Apple TV. Again, I don't have Apple TV. But they're putting out really good stuff. Yeah. But the concept is basically, she's like a writer. She writes these fantasy romance novels, and she's really famous.

And something happens where these scientists are doing like these experiments based on this like data that they received and they basically unlock this alien kind of virus that gets into people. and turns them into... It's like... I don't know how to describe it. It's almost like Invasion of the Body Snatchers. I was going to say, it sounds like that. But I think it's definitely like... It's kind of...

sort of talking about AI and what AI is going to do. Oh, okay. So there's definitely like... Very topical. Yeah, it's very topical with what's going on. Talking about social commentary, it goes right along with that, right? Yes. So there's like 11 people that aren't affected by this virus and this woman is one of them.

I'm another one's master poise and pervious to AI because I just don't even know how to handle it. Yes. Yeah. I just live in the analog world. If I showed you what you could do, it's crazy. But anyway, so it's not AI. It's like it takes over the whole human race, basically, where the whole human race is like one person.

and it's one alien and they're controlling. And these aliens are trying to take over the 11 people that aren't affected. But in the meantime, they're like doing anything they can to make them happy and please them.

Okay. So they're like, whatever you need, we'll give you. You know what I mean? So it's, I don't know where it's going to go, but it's really interesting. And I really, really like it. It's like one of those shows that I'm like so excited to see what's the next one. And this is the first season, right? First season. Okay. Just came out. Do they know if they already?

Greenlighted a second season or not? Not yet because it's so new. You know what I mean? Like literally it's episode by episode. All right. Yeah, yeah, which is cool. And it's eight episodes? I don't know. I'm not sure. Right now it's three, you know, so. I don't know where it's going, but I'm excited to see how it ends up. I'm sure if it does well, it'll go to a second season, and it's doing really well. It's like the top show on Apple TV right now.

A pluribus for all of you keeping notes at home. Pluribus. So, Matt, what's going on with, well, let's talk about Patreon real quick. Absolutely. This is kind of fun. So we're about to do, in the next couple days, I think, sometime before Thanksgiving or after Thanksgiving.

We're doing a little favorite moments, top moments from the movie Thanksgiving because we just can't get enough. Can't get enough. We talked about it a year ago. I'm wearing my Fright Rags Thanksgiving shirt. You have your Fright Rag shirt. Showing it to the camera. We got our... You know, we got our John Carvers over here behind us. We're obsessed with this movie and we love it. And so we thought, hey, we did an episode on it, but let's like maybe dive into like...

Like your favorite moments and my favorite moments and sort of touch on those as a Patreon episode. So that's going to be super fun. Awesome. I can't wait. Yeah, it's going to be good. And then quick thing, we redesigned our merch and we have a new store. So I just wanted to mention that because a couple of people have ordered. We did a John Carver shirt. We did. And it says all will be carved. Yeah. Yeah. And it's great. We sold a few already.

it c-a-a-a-r no we didn't we didn't put the the alternate yeah the new england spin on it but that's cool um but that's going to be a limited edition shirt so if people want that one go check it out it's on our instagram but if you do want to check out our site we got a couple

new things coming out, including, we haven't even told we're going to launch it right now, but we did our West Coast Video Tee, remember, with the West Coast Video logo, which is like the place that I used to rent movies from. Matt had been there before. So we're doing a trucker hat. It's a red trucker hat that has our Alone in the Dark, but has the West Coast font on it. So that is on the site now live, which is cool. It's a great looking hat. So the easiest way.

to find our store because the website address is kind of long. So I'm going to say it right now, but the easiest way is if you follow us on Instagram, just click on our link. uh, in our bio and it'll take you right to our merch store. But if you want the, if you want the address here, it is alone in the dark. And then it's a dash shop. So you can support us and help us out as, you know.

All the money that you buy a shirt and the money we make from the shirts goes right back into the podcast. So we appreciate it. Just like Patreon, too. Definitely. So speaking of, we do this thing where we like to jump back to an older episode, right? So what's your jump back episode to remind people of? So I think last month we did Idle Hands in October. And I believe I chose the Back from the Dead episode because it was kind of like Back from the Dead. Yes, that's right.

which is episode 63, but for this one, since I don't want to recommend the same one two months in a row. Sure. I figured if you go back to episode 100, we did Christine, the Stephen King connection, and it's kind of like a car coming back from the dead, so to speak. So that would be a good companion episode. That's cool. Very nice. Excellent. Which one did you want to jump back to? I jumped way back, Matt, to a January...

January 21st in 2016 we released. This is episode 17. Wow. We did horror remakes. Oh. So I know Pet Sematary was remade. You know what I mean? Not a great remake. Not when we did that episode, by the way.

No, it wasn't even out. Three more years, yeah. But we did talk about some good remakes, like I know we talked about My Bloody Valentine 3D. Definitely. And I forget what else we talked about, but I just thought that'd be kind of a nice connection jumping back. So episode 17 horror remakes. Awesome.

to get into. Matt, are we ready to talk about this movie? Pet Sematary 89, baby. Let's go. It is the place where devoted pets are laid to rest. What did we do tonight, Judd? What we did, Lois, was a secret. But nothing buried there ever rests in peace. Come back to me, Gage. Paramount Pictures presents Stephen King's cheering bestseller at Cemetery Rated R. Now playing at theaters everywhere.

What does that sound like? It sounds like the omen. It sounds like Amityville. It sounds like Amityville big time. It has that feel totally. I love that. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it's beautiful. That's cool. Yeah. So. Budget for this guy, Matt, was $11.5 million, and it did really well. It made $89 million worldwide. $89 and $89.

That's right. By the way, is this a theatrical experience for you? I wanted to ask you. No, this is not. It was for me. We'll talk about that in a minute. So jealous. Oh, my God. That's amazing. Yeah. April 21st of 89. This came out. Yeah. Directed by Mary Lambert. Mary Lambert. And screenplay. Was this the first screenplay he ever wrote? Stephen King? Yeah. No, because he did Maximum Overdrive. He did a couple other. He did Creepshow, so he adapted other ones.

Before this. Gotcha. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, directly involved. We'll talk about all of this. But yes, he's directly involved in the production. He was there. It's in his backyard. So we'll talk about all that. Yeah. So Mike, I do this thing and I love to do this, right? Yeah.

Get myself back into the world of 1989. Oh, this is your, yeah. And, you know, the things I was listening to. So here's a couple of things I put on. Sure. In 89. In celebration. This is going to be really good. Of Pet Sematary and its themes, right? There's a song by Soul to Soul. I love this. Back to life.

back to oh my god i just thought hey back back to life i mean we're talking about pet cemetery that's awesome um motley crew kickstart my heart oh well yeah i mean nicky six needed a lot of adrenaline to bring him back from the dead um in pet cemetery all it takes is just marinating that soil on the Micmac burying ground a little bit. You'll be all right. You'll come back. And then I thought of another tender song that is just absolutely ridiculous. But I just thought maybe like for Judd, right?

I don't want to lose you now. Gloria, step on. Dude, those are awesome. He's just looking over those picture of Gage, you know, just like, oh, look at that. You put him in a wagon. And just this song comes on the background. I thought you were going all metal. No, man. That's great, dude. I love it. Listen, you've got to be subtle with these things. You've got to listen to the full package of 89. I love it. Because it has a lot to offer. It's good. Those are all really good picks. It's great.

So I was a freshman in high school when this movie came out, the spring of my freshman year. And my infamous buddy, Mike DeSaro, who we know and love. Who we've talked about, yep. Had him on the podcast once. Who indoctrinated me to every... horror movie there possibly could be. He turned keeping me into all of this. His older sister, Julie, was a couple years older, and she took us to see Pet Sematary. Middletown? Middletown movie theaters? Middletown movie theaters. Yeah. This is...

a couple of years before it closed, I guess. We both read the book way earlier. I mean, we're both 15, 14 at this point, but we read it probably when we were 10 or 11. Oh my God, that's crazy. Yeah. We were so pumped to see this movie. Yeah.

Um, we weren't really disappointed either. I'd say, I remember people, I can remember the gasping in the movie theater. I, that just, it's just so clear in my mind sitting there when people saw Victor Pascal, you know, and they're carrying him in. Oh yeah. And people were like, there was literally like,

People just gasping at the screen. And when they saw Rachel at the end and all these different scenes, they're cheering and like crazy. What was the audience for this? Because I'm just curious. Because you guys got... snuck in almost so like teens and younger really yeah and younger and younger 20s and but like adults were there like adults there's adults in there for sure because people were steven king fans right so who would you say was the

the majority of the people in there. Probably like mid twenties. Okay. In that range. All right. Um, but do the, you know, the nervous laughter that people have, but, but they, when you know they're scared, but they're laughing to overcompensate.

What a cool experience. Yeah, man. The whole movie, like at the end when he's making out with, I can just remember when he's making out and they don't show Rachel at first because they're showing it from his, from her point of view, you see behind and you know, she's standing in the kitchen and he's sitting at the fridge.

And he stands up when she comes in. And you don't see her yet. And then the first time you see her, she's almost in this insane close-up. And you see her eye is missing. People are like, oh! It was amazing. It was amazing. Oh my gosh.

So you didn't see this? No, this was like a West Coast rental for me. You know what I mean? I kind of knew about it and kind of missed it. At some point in high school? Oh, yeah, it was definitely, well... You came out in 89, so maybe... Yeah, I was probably like a sophomore or junior or something like that. I was definitely late to the party for sure, but I knew about it. Well, you were late to the Stephen King party as far as reading, too. I was. Well, that's not true. I actually...

Read it when I was probably 13. You when it first came out? I guess. Is that when it came out? It came out in 86, I believe. I remember buying that right when it came out. And then my dad had an old copy of The Stand, which I tried for years to get through. And I just couldn't do it because the book was like – It's the original. It's not the uncut. No. Yeah. I had it for a while. It was like – It's 800 and something pages. It was like –

I want to say it was like a first edition because my dad used to get free. Was it blue? No, it was white. It was like a white and it had the like, you know, the guy with the dagger and the creature, like the little whatever, you know what I mean? So it probably had the Randall flag somewhere.

his image or his visage somewhere in the sure so anyway i tried to to read that and i could never get through it so but pet cemetery was not one i read until way later but i remember watching this in my basement

by myself and i've told this story yeah so we're in the nostalgia section here obviously we're talking about all this so you go tell me this i didn't i don't know if i heard all of this well no i just i've mentioned this before there was always a thing i would go watch a movie and one of them was um faces of death and by myself and i remember i was like so traumatized and like couldn't even move basically but to get from my basement

the couch to upstairs, you had to go through, we had a big basement. So where the couch and the TV was, was like in the back area. And you had to walk through another room. and then make a turn through another room, and then that's where the stairs was. Oh, man. So when I would watch a movie, I would have to basically shut the lights off because my dad used to yell at me because I'd leave him on.

and then basically run as fast as i could but around corners were you hitting walls at some point i may have at some point i may have like literally knocked and that's the same by those stairs by the way is the same place my cousins were watching the exorcist on tv when i was really little and i was like

behind a wall so that that basement just brings me back to like uh just all kinds of crazy memories of watching movies that i should probably shouldn't be watching or i shouldn't be watching alone and this was one of them

I watched Alone, and I was just traumatized. Even though you were in high school, it's still a scary thing when you watch it alone. So scary. Alone in the dark. That's it. Alone in the dark. So Mike King did something when he released this book, just to give a little bit of a context here, upon the release of this book.

He did the anti-Hitchcock. So Hitchcock, when Psycho came out, he was everywhere, right? Yep. I mean, his marketing... The plan was ridiculous. You can't enter this movie. If it started, you have to... I mean, everything drew attention to it. Yes. King ran in the other direction. He did. He didn't promote... He barely promoted this book. The book, yeah. First of all, he put it in a drawer. It was too dark for him. He couldn't really... Right.

The genius in that is people were like, wait a minute. He's not talking about this book. Right. And why? Because what scared him? So what scared Stephen King so badly? Yeah.

that he doesn't want to talk about this. Didn't they put that on the cover? Didn't they put something on the cover about- Well, on the back of the original thing, it said, the most frightening book Stephen King has ever written. Yes. Large print. Right, right. Well, that's good marketing for sure. But yeah, you're right. Not- not drawing attention to it and almost just slipping it out there without people knowing.

That's pretty genius. He's been scaring us for all this time. What is scaring him? Yes. Yeah. Now we have to read this. Yeah, of course. It was genius. Yeah. The anti-marketing. I know we're talking about the movie, but when you first read this book. Yeah. Were you like, because you said you were like 10 or 11? I was, well, no, I was probably 12, let's say. Let's conservatively say 11, 12. Was it traumatizing for you? Oh, it was scary as shit, yeah. Did you like...

read through it or did you just have to stop? No, I didn't have to stop in this one because I was so, I was scared out of my mind, but I had to see where it was so compelling to read it. Like, oh my, like, and it's one of those things when you're 12 or 11, you feel like, oh.

looking over your shoulder like i probably shouldn't be reading it right yeah is it that you feel dirty almost yeah that that book i could see making you feel guilty my mother never cared like she was always very cool about that she was like you're reading yeah yeah wow he's got a book i mean this is fine yeah that's great let the kid

go you know what i mean that's awesome i know you also watched the documentary that unearthed and untold yes yeah it was the path to pet cemetery yeah it's on youtube for anybody it's a really good dog i learned so much about the making of this movie which is cool as hell yeah so we talked about king being directly

you know, film in his backyard, so he was directly involved with the making of this. He was on set often. I love the story about how he kind of came up with the idea for the book, though, is he was staying somewhere with his family. Right near his backyard. Right.

Yeah, yeah. I don't know why he was somewhere else, but he was somewhere else with his family. And a couple things happened. His son, who's a writer now. Joe or Owen? Yeah. Both of them. His oldest son, Joe, was on a creep show. Yeah, maybe it was the younger. I'm not sure. Almost got hit by a truck.

Then in the same town he was staying in, he found this pet cemetery and the sign was spelled wrong. And it was spelled just like that. Yeah. And he asked the woman like, hey. And they interview her in the dock. Yeah, they do, which is really interesting.

But so much cool stuff. Like, you wouldn't know. You know what I mean? But watching this documentary is really good. So that's free on YouTube for anybody who wants to see. Good companion piece. If you like this pod and you like the movie, go over there and watch it. I stumbled upon it.

You know what I mean? Just one day at school. I was just watching it during my prep. I didn't know it existed. I know. I told you about it. I was like, Matt, you got to check this thing out. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So I, of course I tracked it down. I have some reviews here, Mike. Sure. Let's do it. So. Outstanding central performances. Director Mary Lambert has a wonderful sense of visual style, manages to make this one...

of the few versions of King's work that's not only worth seeing but genuinely unnerving. Because, no, King's work was derided a lot of the time when it came out. It wasn't valued. No, it doesn't stand up to how good the book was, whatever. Yeah. And this person seemed to think it was a humanoid of flesh. Things seem to think it was a good thing. But listen to this review. Okay. Dead certainly would have been better in the case of this film. I...

Somebody made this and it was rejected by tales from the crypt. However, instead of leaving it dead in the ground, this film's production team dug it up and placed it in the pet cemetery. The rotten junk that crawled out is what we're forced to view.

What? That's rough, dude. That's rough. That's really rough. Did they watch Pet Sematary? Plan 9 from Outer Space? Like, what did they watch? Were they talking about the remake? I don't know. Wow. Maybe if you want to talk about that, we can. I don't know how far into that you want to go.

But that's harsh. Yeah, that is harsh. Yeah. But there's always somebody. I mean, there's always that one person that's like this is the point. Like this is why there's people that live to hate. That's true. And that's not this. So if you're living to hate.

You can just turn this off now, honestly, because we're not going to hate on... Even when we aren't completely jazzed about a movie and we give it in the twos or something, it's still done with love. We're going to find everything about it that we like. Because we want to celebrate movies. We don't want to...

crap on them. That's just not what this is. No, that's not what we're into. And not to say that movies don't deserve to be crapped on. Some of them, but it's hard to make a movie. But at the same time, I don't want to sit here and be the... the only person, you know, we're, we're kind of curating in a way cause people are listening to us and they're like, Oh, what, what do they think we should be watching or what are they? Right. You know, and if you don't like it, you don't like it. Yeah.

But even if I don't like it, I'm still going to try to find a Terrifier 3. I'm going to find something I like about it. Yeah, you find something, and you know what I mean? You give it a good watch, and you always do, which is great.

So you ready to talk about some settings and locations? Always so important that we talk about this, right? Yeah, because this is something we love. We talk about one of my favorite things, and I know you love too. Where do you stand on this one? I think it's pretty good. You know what I mean? This was filmed in Hancock, Maine, I believe. It's like the main town where the house is. Yes, Hancock. Coolest thing that I learned from the documentary, by the way, locations-wise.

Judd's house? Yes. It was like a small one-story. It's a one-story ranch, and they built a giant facade. Yeah. A giant... Victorian facade over that house. Yes. And they set it on fire. And that's what they burned down at the end. Yeah. And they somehow put a wall or something. It was far enough in front of the actual other house that it didn't burn. How cool is that? It's absolutely amazing. Watching that documentary.

just seeing that how they did that was amazing because i thought that was really setting mike this is as this is genuine rural setting it is yeah there's totally no green screen there's no effects this is In the woods. No. They picked the house. They picked, you know. I thought this does so well with setting. Yeah. I think this knocks it out of the park. What school do they film at? Do you know? I don't know. No, I don't. Is it in Maine or?

I'm not sure. No, you're talking about his office when they bring Victor in? Yes. That was in the town square. That was in the middle of town somewhere. Oh, that's right. That's like the town hall or something. Yeah, the municipal building or something. That's right. That's in the documentary, too. They didn't have permission to film at the school. Yes, that's right. I remember that from the documentary, yeah.

which is kind of cool. What other settings did you want to talk about? I think both houses are great. I mean, the Pet Sematary. Well, the Pet Sematary is cool, and I love how there's two levels to the Pet Sematary. Well, in a way.

where the Pet Sematary is, they have the rock formations that they had there. I don't know if they led anywhere or if they didn't, but then it cut to a different... Him climbing those bluffs and stuff is a totally different... Arcadian National Forest somewhere. Exactly, Arcadian National Forest, yeah. It's a totally different location.

It was great in the editing department because really they – You have no idea. Yeah. Yeah. It's really, really cool. But the actual Pet Sematary is creepy as hell. Oh, yeah. The first one before you get to the – Absolutely. But it has charm to it too. It does, yeah, because you get just all the signs. And Judd even points out his dog. Exactly. Yeah, and we'll get to that scene. I really like that scene a lot. But King absolutely said, when the rights were sold for this, he said,

One of his conditions was this has to be filmed in Maine. Which is great. And I love that, that he's so committed to having his home state, you know what I mean, be a central piece of this movie. It is a character in this movie. It is. It really is. So I'm glad he insisted upon that as well.

And I love how, you know what I mean, the family is kind of moving into this. They're sort of like the new people into this space. Right. So they don't really know what Maine's like. They're learning as they go. Strangers in a strange land. That's it. Yep. Yeah.

Excellent. So we're going to talk about some scenes. Oh, there's many scenes, Mike, but you know what? They're all worthy of being talked about. So the opening credits, right? We talked about that beautiful score earlier, the choir, the children. Yes. Beautiful. Jerry Goldsmith, right? It's foreboding, too. We get to see the scope of this.

I'm going to put my air quotes up here, innocent pet cemetery, because that is the portion of it that is innocent. Because what you bury in the pet cemetery actually does stay buried. Yes. Right? Like Judd's.

dog finally when it finally rested granted he brought it back at some point but he did yeah spot ended up in this pet cemetery as his final resting place yes right um loving tribute from their owners those like the little poetry and little poems they wrote to their thing here lies whatever um so after they have this and they show directed by mary lambert do you remember what the first shot of the actual movie is it's an

amazing thing they do they have this beautiful and then all of a sudden directed by mary lambert and then the cameras underneath a giant orinco truck drives right over oh that's right i was gonna say right into the audience's lap yeah yeah

Which is almost like, you know, a little foreshadowing. Of course it is, dude. Totally. I mean, the foreshadowing. Let's talk about it. So right after that, the family pulls in. After that truck, the family literally rounds the corner and pulls the driveway. Right? Ellie falls off the tire swing.

gage is waving at the speeding truck the next one that comes however many minutes later and he's standing right by the road oh god the road and judd comes and picks him up swoops him up yep you know and then a good neighbor he is so It's all foreshadowing. It's all right there. This family has no idea what they're in for, but the audience is like, uh-oh. The Renko trucks are driving up and down this road. So you got anything else with that for the opening scene? No, not for the opening scene.

So the family visits the Pet Sematary. This is the scene you were talking about earlier. Yes. Now, exposition scenes are always tough. Yeah. But they should always be this good. Right. Yeah. Because you're getting a lot of exposition in the scene. But Judd's telling you a story. Like, warm your hands by the campfire here. Pull up a chair. Judd's going to tell you a cool little story about this pet cemetery. Yeah. And you're going to learn a lot about this area.

Right. And it gives you a lot of exposition, but in such a genuine. Very cool, normal way. It's not force-feeding it to you. Yeah. He's walking. They're talking. They're actually getting somewhere. Well, I love it. It's like the whole family's going on a hike, basically. You know what I mean? It's like, hey, let's go. We got all the kids. Gages on his shoulders, right? Yeah, yeah. It's very like a family.

thing to do but what's interesting to me about the scene is that you really get to see the difference between or the conflict i should say between uh lewis and rachel yeah because Rachel's very anti talking about anything or anything with dad speak. Yeah. And she's like, you can see it. She's like annoyed. And yeah, you know what I mean? This is like, okay. Yeah. And, but Lewis is more like, Hey, you know, he's a doctor too. So it's like, it's real. So we need to.

talk about this kind of stuff yeah but a good point because Rachel is repulsed by Judd's initial remarks about death this is where the dead speak yes But I love how he sits down with Ellie and kind of tells her that whole monologue where he tells her, do you know what a cemetery is for and all that kind of stuff? This one's a go!

Oh, fishy. They weren't all running off of the road. Then they go into that whole thing, right? Yeah, I love that. Just pets, right? Not necessarily pets that run on the road, but just pets. Yep.

So do you have anything else for that scene? No, I don't. It's a beautiful scene. No, it is. Very cool. Pascal, so he wakes up for work the first day of work. He does that little thing. You meet Missy for the first time. Not the live-in, but she's like the maid. Yeah, she's like the housekeeper. And she's talking a little bit and you can tell that she's sick or she has something going on.

There's Lewis going, oh, I'm going to work and everything's going to be fine. First day. First day. Yep. He has a fight. with rachel before he leaves remember they're fighting about the whole talking to ellie and stuff exactly and he's kind of annoyed and he goes out the door and she comes out and gives him a kiss like yeah it's gonna be fun but i love it it's one it's his first of many false promises that he makes in this movie yep

I promise. Well, promise her. Because Rachel is so insistent that, promise your little girl here. She's waiting, you know? Yeah. And he's like, even though he may know, you could tell on his face, he's like... I'm lying to her. Right, exactly. I don't know if everything's a beer. Yeah, yeah. I know. But again, and then bam. Yes.

This slow motion kind of thing. The gore is right in your face. His head is split open. Isn't it even before Lewis gets there? Is Lewis even at the hospital yet? No, he is. Oh, he's there? He is there. Just picture him pulling up in the car, and they're like, come here! Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're going to earn your...

money today but it's awesome because they carry them up the steps and you think it's at the college yes but it's actually behind them it's the back entrance to this municipal building right town yeah but they make it look like they do really cool they do make it cool yeah people were screaming in the theater on this oh my god sure

Well, because the makeup, that's the one note I have is the makeup is so incredible on Pascal's head and like his like his brain is sticking out. Yes. It's like bubbling. Yes. Oh, my God. It's leaking. Anytime they show him. It's unbelievable. It's wet. Yeah. It's very wet every time you see them. It's some people's least favorite word. It's moist. It is moist. But again, Mike, I'm going to point to this for the second time now. The exposition.

The way it's handled. Yes. You have. Very clever. You have Victor on the table. Yep. And of course he comes to. Yes. And he grabs Lewis. Yes. And he's giving him a little bit more of this exposition, but it's done in such an entertaining way. And he's warning Lewis, don't go.

Beyond the Pet Sematary, right? The audience is already eagerly anticipating when someone does because, oh, what's going to happen, right? When somebody actually does. Suspense is beautifully built in because here is the fruit in the Garden of Eden that...

Lewis and Casey needs it. Everyone needs it. Wait, what's that all about? Intrigue. Let me plant that seed in the back of my mind. Why don't I go behind? And of course, when you always say, don't do that, what do you think of? Oh, I got to go and check that out. Yeah, I got to do that. I'm going to have to go do that.

But it's so cool they set that up at the beginning. I wanted to ask you in the book, does Pascal come in at that point as well? Yeah, I think Pascal does. Yeah, he does grab him. I think there's a scene. Oh, that's so cool. I've got to read that because it's been so many years since I've read this book.

You got to go back. Yeah, I do. I do want to read this again. I haven't reread this probably in the better part of 25 years. That's awesome. Very cool. I definitely am due. Yes. So next scene, Mike, Zelda, the first Zelda flashback. Okay.

Well, this is when she's kind of telling Lewis about it. This is when Rachel is telling, and Lewis already has a really contentious relationship with Rachel's parents. yeah like they don't like him at all no they don't they've set that up and now this is his way of being like if i didn't have if i had a reason to like him already now i really don't like him yeah they left you alone yes with your freaking sister yeah who had

You know, what did she have, spinal meningitis or something? Something like that. Tuberculosis? No. I think it was spinal meningitis. She's choking on her food, and she's feeding her, and she's this little girl. Dude, feeding her the soup. And they show the back? Yeah. How it looks like...

It's just all caved in. It looks like there's just, like, a spider in the middle of it or something. It looks like a Tim Burton movie where, like, they suck, like, the wind out of you. You know what I mean? It does. Like, the oxygen out of you. It's crazy, yeah. It looks like a facehugger, like Aliens, in the back or something. Oh, my God. It's so freaky.

But Rachel, like her voice, you get a little, and when she runs down and the little neighborhood kids are standing, how bizarre is that scene to you? Yeah, that's so weird. They're just standing there like, Hey. Like in her entryway of her house. Why are they in her house, by the way? Were they playing downstairs? They must have been, I guess. Let me just go upstairs and feed my sister who's dying. I'll be right back. What was that conversation like? Here, play Monopoly. I'll be right back.

i mean it's just it's the most bizarre so look at their facial expressions it is just absolutely bizarre yeah do you have anything else about that scene no a mic then we get to the one of the pinnacle scenes in the whole movie gauge flies a kite

This scene has everything. Why is it that most tragedy happens when it's actually like this banner beautiful day? Yeah. You never noticed that? Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're sitting, they're having a picnic. I mean, it's gorgeous out. You almost know as soon as the scene starts, you're like. Something's going down right now. It's coming.

Yep. Flying kites. The editor should have won an Oscar for this entire sequence. This sequence is so well done. Yeah, it's so well cool. It's like all the different shots of the truck driver, like, getting ready, like, taking out. Because they didn't have to show the truck driver, like, getting in this truck. I love that, though.

Guarding the truck. I was going to ask you, did you think that was too much? To me, I love that. No, I love that because you kind of need it. It builds anticipation. It builds tension. You know what I mean? And just how absolutely. he's just rotely going through his day having no idea what's coming. That's why I think they show it all. It's like, here, you're oblivious to what is actually going to happen. The cross-cutting, Mike.

the the rinko trucks zooming by the house already that we've seen in the beginning the first shot you saw after the credit sequence is yes and then gauge almost got hit already we know these things are flying right yeah and now we see a guy from his loading point getting in there. And what's he doing? He's speeding. He's listening to the Ramones. Right. Right. Yeah. But does he, he manages to ruin an entire family and a Ramones song in the same scene.

Well, you know how they filmed this? It's genius. They filmed it with a mirror or something? Yes. You learn this in documentary, too. Well, when Gage is, like, about to approach the road. Because they couldn't have him, Mikko Hughes, the actor, they couldn't have him standing near the road. Yes. By the way, the guy was only driving about five or ten miles an hour. No, he said that in the documentary, too.

They made it look really fast. But it looks amazing. Yeah, they put a mirror so you see the truck coming towards Gage from the angle. Yes. He's actually coming from another direction. Right. Because they just... movie making at its finest i love that that's like an old special effect from like the i want to say like the turn of the century or something this makes my stomach turn this film it's so this scene is so realistic i think it's absolutely amazing yeah and then the aftermath

And so I was in the movie theater for this. And first of all, the bloody sneaker flies into frame. Okay. Then Lewis's scream. And, Mike, if there's ever in a competition for emotional no's in the movie, it's this versus Loomis at the end of Halloween 4. I don't know who wins to this moment because Lois' goes on, and so is Loomis'. But Lois' is good.

It's gut-wrenching. It is gut-wrenching. Yeah, he did such a good job. But I want to throw down Lewis Creed versus Loomis. Matt, is Lewis the worst dad in movie history? He might be. But let's finish the scene. But we're going to talk about Lewis's character in a little bit. And I think there's a nail to hang a hat on at that point. But Lewis is screaming. That's enough.

You see him standing on the road like this. You know what's happened. The truck is now flipped over and smoke is coming out of it. You saw the bloody sneaker. No, now we're going to show a montage of photos of when Gage was a baby in the hospital.

The worst. I've already ripped your heart out. Now I'm going to crush it and bite it. Yeah. So let me ask you a question because this is important. We're both dads. When you saw this as a kid, probably didn't. It was like, oh, that's messed up. I had goosebumps. Like, I watched this the other day. I did. I literally had goosebumps. But as a dad now, watching this, like, I watched it the other day. My kids are about to be 21, but...

It hurt me. It bothered me. You know what I mean? It really bothered me. Yeah. It's very, very... It just grabs you by the heart and just squeezes. And we talk about emotional horror all the time in this podcast. Yeah, I know. What better evidence can you have of emotional horror than this?

scene. Mary Lambert directs the crap out of the scene. Yeah, but those flashbacks, you're right, man. It's like, it hurts. It's like a stab right in the chest. I mean, I had physiological... response bodily things that were happening to my body frisson you know frisson you know what that is right frisson they call it f-r-i-s-s-o-n is that what you put in your car no that's it's freon frisson or frisson or however you pronounce it is

is when you have that goose flush. It's the kind of... the sensation okay of when that happens all right sometimes happens when you listen to music yeah or reacting to somebody like in a movie like this where you're in the moment you feel so real like so that's what happens it's that interest that reaction oh cool so i literally like

could feel all of these things happening to me in the movie theater it had a visceral response to it it was crazy i'd never seen i don't know like death it just haunted me so much the way to present the death of a child like that i know

I know. Like, whoa. I mean, people, children have died before, right? Matter of fact, one of my pairings we'll talk about later. Oh, okay. Which deals with something very similar, but in a totally different way. By the way, they restored this truck a couple of years later. It's now sitting in front of a... like a, some kind of a huge trucking place or like a real feeding place or some kind of place.

some commercial building or something and they have the actual just the main the front piece yeah it's in maine oh my god and they they list they list they have like a big banner that says like what this is the stephen king oh my god that's so funny and they had the what do you call it the driver actually came back and like reunited with this oh that's that's hilarious

In a dark way, it's hilarious. Yeah, that's kind of messed up. Oh, yeah, this is the one I took the kid out in. Yeah, totally. Oh, God. Oh, man. So if that wasn't bad enough. The scene about Gage's funeral. Yes. Well, Jesus Christ, Matt. What are we watching? A Jerry Springer show? Seriously. First of all, even when I was 15, I'd been to a lot of funerals. Yes. Unfortunately. You just do. Yeah, of course.

People are so subdued. Yes. And it's such a sacred space and it's so sensitive and people are usually on their best behavior. And like I said, they're mourning or they're crying or they're just, they're reflecting, right? But so it's so jarring when Irwin goes up to Lewis and basically, I mean, good grief presents itself in different ways, but this guy is just pure anger. He's already graduated several of the other phases and he's in complete anger.

I knew something like this would happen. I told you when she was first married, you'll have all the grief you could stand and more. I said, I hope you'll rot in hell. He says that to him, and I'm like, wait, what? Where were you when he was playing on the road? You stinking shit. I'm like, oh my God. He's taking all of it. He can't move. He's just taking it. You killer of children.

And then he slugs them. Yes, dude, that's fucked up, man. Who does that? Whether or not you hate somebody, you know what I mean? You don't do that in the middle of a funeral in front of a family. They fucking knock the casket over. and he almost comes he almost comes tumbling out could you imagine but i think lambert did such a good job but that's subtle just like what what comes out is like you see a sneaker or his hand i forget again foreshadowing

Right? More foreshadowing. Oh, my God. Is he coming out? He's going to be coming out. Right? Just wait. Just hang it up a little bit. Just let Lewis's mind slip away just a little bit more. But, yeah, that scene's bonkers. Bonkers. Crazy. And you're just like... Your mouth's just hanging open. I'm sure in the theater it was dead silent in that scene. It was crazy. Yeah, I'm sure. There may have been somebody going...

How dare you? He's his dad. Like, he doesn't feel bad. Like, there might be some self-talk. This is definitely not a movie or a scene where, like, when you and I go to the movies where I just hear you go. No, I wasn't laughing. You're not laughing. I'm not laughing in this scene at all. Not in this movie. No. Nope. The Timmy Baterman flashback. Okay. When Judd goes into the story. Yep.

Talks about the guy. That guy's fucking freaky, man. He's just like... Is that a good impersonation? Timmy's impersonation? You got Loomis. I got Timmy Biederman or whatever his name is. Timmy Biederman. Timmy Biederman. Oh, my God. That was too much.

So he's digging in the dirt? Yes. What does he have, like a foot? I don't know. It's like somebody's foot. It was a human leg or something clutched in his hand. Yeah, and he's just like, look what I did. And he's peeling his face. Yeah, peeling his face off. Oh, dude. And then Judd and the other men, like, pull up and they burn. Yes, and they burn the place down. They burn Peter and his dad, right? Doesn't his dad die?

He tries to leave, I think, but then Timmy tackles him or something. Yeah, and holds him there like we're going together. We're going down together, Dad. and he understands timmy the dad understands everything he said yes i guess he could you know so then we go to another scene which come to me is is one of those scenes where it's dead quiet again because you have lewis digging up gage oh god yeah i mean

It's a rare scene, though. When do you get to see things like this? Not a lot, right? A burial, even more sacred than a funeral, is a burial. Yeah. Like, when somebody's put in the ground, you leave them in the ground. Right. Unless, you know. Yes. Somebody dug him up from part six, Martin, the caretaker. Yes, yes. He didn't do this. This is all Lewis, okay? Dig him up, Kathleen. So Cradle engages corpse in his arms.

it was just the imagery of that even though it wasn't like in stark light and you really couldn't see you didn't need to see it right Because you knew what he was doing. And they kept it very respectful the way they filmed it. It's disturbing enough. You're jumping ahead. I love how when the cops show up and he ditches behind. He jumps into the hole. Yeah, just in anticipation of like...

And what he's doing, it's like becomes very real at that moment. It's like almost you can sense that he was thinking it again. Like, maybe I shouldn't be doing this. Yeah. There's a pause there where it's like, yeah. He's like, this was his chance to say, nope, I'm out. Head check, Lewis. That's a good point. And he's just too far gone. Yeah, at that point, yeah. I want your take on this. That question I've always...

always ask you these questions because I know how much this means to you. We talk about exposition. We talk about dialogue all the time. It was wrong. What happened to you is wrong. If it doesn't work. If he comes back and he's like, Judd said to me, Baterman was, well, I'll just put him back to sleep. Is it too much? Do you need all of that?

I don't think you need all that. But I think the point of that was for the audience, because at that moment, the audience is questioning why he's doing this. So I think they needed a response from Lewis to say. if this doesn't work out, I can fix it. You know what I mean? They needed that because later when there's no fixing, they needed people to be like, you idiot. Why'd you do that? All right. I mean, that's what I think. I don't know if you agree with that, but was it too much for you?

Maybe a little bit. Not in 1989. I think now it's a little bit. What about if you just said... If this doesn't work out, I can just put you in the ground again or I'll fix it. That would have been okay. It just seems like he went in a little bit of a monologue. I think if he was talking to somebody, it would have made more sense. I just don't love when...

people are talking to themselves and the exposition comes out. But he is kind of talking to himself. No, that's what I mean. Well, he's talking to Gage, kind of, but then he's also kind of talking. This is why he's gone, right? Because he's talking to Gage and then he's like...

but if i'll just put him back to sleep like he's talking to a gauge and then himself yes in the same he doesn't know who he's talking to he's gone you know what it's funny this reminds me of and this is one of those scenes you know how much we love halloween for When Jamie's outside and the kids bully her in school and she's standing at the tree waiting for her. I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that too much for you? It's a little too much. See, that's too much. She only says it like three times. I know, but you don't need to say anything. It is a lot. She's crying. I don't think she needs to say anything either. She's crying by the tree. That's kind of, it's funny you bring that up because that's a really good comparison.

Although the audience needs something. The audience is not stupid, though. No, that's basically slapping the audience in the face, saying you don't realize she's upset right now. In Halloween 4 it is. Here, it's just a little bit much. You need something. I agree with you in that. I just don't know it needed to be that much. Sure.

Zelda comes back, Mike. Oh, fuck. So sitting up on the bed at her parents' house where the pictures are all crooked, and she's like, I'm coming for you, Rachel. Oh, my God. And this time I'll get you. Gage and I will get you for letting us die. And she's like, Jesus Christ. um zelda nightmare fuel for a long long time this is honestly almost worse than gauge coming back me in that picture me in my basement my parents basement Zelda was chasing me up those stairs easily

Totally. Was she crawling after you or was she coming at you? No, she was running. She was running with her crooked spine. That's even scary. We're going to talk about Zelda and we'll talk about characters in a little bit. Judd's confrontation with Gage. So nasty stuff, man.

Dude, Judd has such an unflinching resolve in this scene. He understands exactly what's happening, right? Because he's been through this before. He told the Timmy Bader in Flashback. He knows. He knows what these people are going to come back as. He does. So he's in a way, he's more prepared than anyone can be.

Well, he's trying to warn Lewis the whole time, basically. But even though he knows, he still underestimates Gage. Gage has the element of surprise because first Gage cuts Judd's Achilles tendon. deeply and you're like oh what a great shot yeah man then he slices the scalpel across his mouth yes gets like on both sides of the because of course it's like a perfect doe at that point like yeah He slices right across. Dude, the fucking bite, dude. And then he must like fruit.

Because he just right down right on an Adam's apple, man. He's right in the apple farm, man. He's right down on that thing. Yeah, he was just like, ah. It's sick. It's sick. It is sick. And he tears it out. And that's not a puppet at that point, biting, is it? Or is it?

No, because I think he was there. I think part of it... I think that's Miko Hughes doing that. Yeah, it's Miko Hughes definitely biting. And I think there was like a prosthetic over... Can you imagine the trauma of that kid having to do that? Well, I think they said in the documentary that...

When Judd's character screams, Miko Hughes got freaked out. Yeah. He thought he was really hurting him or whatever. Yeah, he thought he was really hurting him, yeah. I mean, not even three years old. I know, I know. That's the insanity of this. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, Matt, the anticipation is, like, so unreal in this scene. Yes. Oh, yeah. It builds. It builds before he gets that first, you know. It's a long time. Yeah. It's a good few minutes. Yeah. Gage going after Judd.

the first time i got something for you you know judd kind of set this all in motion you know With kind of putting that thought into Lewis's head. Oh, we have lots to explore, Mike. Lots to explore. Yeah, but hearing Gage, Gage's sweet voice saying he wants to play hide and seek. Yeah.

Come on, Judd. Come on, find me. It's terrifying, dude. So terrifying. So then Rachel, of course, comes home. Yes. And the Orenko truck drops her off. Lewis just passed out by the moment. Yeah, Lewis has passed out. By the way, he's just taking a nap. Well, he's...

But he's dug up his... I know. He's done all this. He's carried him 800 miles, seemingly. I know. Because that scene is another one that takes way too long. Yes. With all the climbing. Yes. And there's the corpse. And it's like, oh, my God. More anticipation. Yep. But she...

is drawn to Judd's house first because she hears the laughing. She hears the laughing. And she hears Zelda. Yes. And then she's like, what the fuck's going on? That low wailing sound of Zelda. I'm sorry. It's just so unnerving. And how about, Mike, when she sees Gage?

And his little velvet suit with the top hat. Do you know where that comes from? It's from the painting in the parents' house. The painting that's hanging in her parents' house in Chicago. Yes. It's the same thing. That is so clever. Isn't that clever? That wasn't in the book, was it? I don't. remember that at all i don't think so i just think that's mary lambert going i got a really cool idea yeah yeah because this painting's freaky he's gonna come back

to something that she's seen a million times in her parents' house and probably knows, and now it's connected with her son that just died. It's one more layer. It's one more layer of, hey, don't be scared of me. I'm okay. Everything's fine. Oh, my God. Ay-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi. It's... Genius. It really is. Gage repeating, I brought you something, mommy. I brought you something, mommy. And Rachel's seeing the knife, but she still walks towards him, right? It's heartbreaking. It is. But now as an adult.

i have a big gripe what's that how is gage's corpse in one piece After being hit? After being obliterated by the Norinco truck. But how is there only a three-inch gash in his head? You know, I never thought of it. That's true, Matt. How is that possible? The bloody sneaker flew. Yeah. Right? So everything's... I hate to... We're analyzing the movie, so we have to talk about this. Yeah, yeah, I don't... There's a little bit...

of way too much suspension and disbelief here. I mean, did the Micmac Beringrad do that good of a job of putting him back together? Yeah, well, maybe there's a power there where they can heal themselves. Because he doesn't look bad. If you look at Timmy Baterman. Can you do the Baterman again?

Gage looks way better than Timmy Peterman looked. He does, right? Yeah, he does. I'm wondering, did the truck hit him and he just flew or something? And like, you know, it was just like the impact that killed him. I don't know.

But you're right. He wouldn't have more scratches. He wouldn't have like... But he ran him over. He wouldn't have his... He wouldn't be crushed. Yeah, he had to have been... run over you know what I mean there's no way even if it wasn't run over even the bashing something his shoe his bloody shoe fell off so that tells us his head hitting off the back of the I mean it would have been caved to something would be a miss I know I know crazy

So now Lewis comes home. Lewis's confrontation with Gage. He wakes up, right? Yeah, he wakes up. That weird wake-up scene where he wakes up, goes, oh, and a nightmare, and then he hits his head on the corner of the... Yeah, he's a fool. It's almost funny. It is. It is. It actually is funny. But then he sees the little muddy footprints. The phone rings, Mike. Yeah. Who's calling him? It's Gage. How does Gage know how to do that? You know what I mean? I don't know, dude.

Hey, Gage. How are you doing, buddy? Yeah, hey, buddy. What's up? I'm so glad you called me. Yeah, I'm so glad you're back. I was waiting for you to call me. But again, the suspense when he walks into the house. It's amazing because there's three separate scenes. There's the Judd scene.

Yes. Which takes a long time. Right. Built up a suspense. Yeah. Then there's Rachel scene. It's like they have these beautifully constructed one act. Rachel, you have almost like split in two because you have you have Zelda and. Gage. Very true. It's like two separate trauma sequences. Exactly. It's really preying upon her. And then Lewis is like the big finale here where he's going to come and we know something really bad is going to happen. And on the way over there, he...

He puts church out of his misery, right? He has a piece of meat. Oh, God. I wanted to mention that. What kind of issue about that? Well...

i've i've had to put no i've had to put a couple of my dogs down you know what i mean not personally but like at the vet with them giving the shot my last dog marty which you of course are golden i love them my wife and i had to go and they had to give him the shot and i was like petting him as he died i mean and it just it's hard so like you know how it is like

I'd rather see a person die than an animal. So not that I've, you know, you have cats. I don't like cats, but to see a cat, a needle going into a cat and it just sort of like, like limps like that just freaks me out. I don't know. I just don't like that, that kind of scene. So yeah, you're right. I forgot about that.

The only difference is when Lewis walks in the house, it is this disgusting, decrempant... The thing that... Pictures are all askew. There's like moss on the seat. Yeah, there's moss and stuff, which is kind of like... It's just, it's the house of horrors. It represents the seventh pit of hell, essentially. Right, exactly. Because at this point, Lewis Creed has arrived in hell. Yes. Let's face it. Well, he's made that choice.

He has, which I don't think a sane mind made that choice. So in a way, he made the choice in the throes of just this immense grief, which is really not under his control in a way. Yeah, of course. When he finds Judd's gory corpse, he sees Rachel hanging by the attic stairs. Oh, God. And then he gets attacked by a superhero flying Chucky doll. No, no. It's like Superfly Snooka. It's like a wrestling...

He's just like, yeah, Jimmy, super fly. He's just like, like off the ropes. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, man. So that's the part that took me out a little bit. I don't know about you, but the effects in that scene. Is it just a little too far? Of course, they're not going to be like, hey, Cage, here, we're going to put a trampoline, jump off this ledge and land here. They couldn't do that with him, but...

you could definitely see the dummy in a lot of shots where I felt like it could have been edited in a way where even a shadow or something, but it's kind of ruined it for me a little bit. Okay.

All right. Yeah. And then the last little part when he injects gauge. Oh, fuck. That fucked me up. Because like I said, I hate shots. I know. But then that way he stumbles backwards. Yeah. And then like hits his head on the wall. Yes. And the same way the gas later on when he when he sets it on fire. Yeah. The line of.

the little crooked line of, um, gas, whatever that leads to gauge. Yeah. I know. Like still propped up against the wall. So bizarre. It's awful. Um, I still remember that shot. It's odd. It's crazy. It's so sad though. Yeah. So incredibly sad. And then Judd's house, like you said, burned to the ground. The facade, as we know now, right? Yep. But I'm wondering, Mike, those are Rinko trucks, man. They keep coming. But...

No such luck with the fire company. Yeah, I was going to say. It's basically ash and embers and no fire truck has arrived. I know this is a small town, but you think that would be a benefit for them. They'd be like, oh, we got something to do. Let's go fucking put out that fire. Seriously. Like, how do they not know that? Or just send in a Rinko truck.

this point they're passing every five minutes right send one with a fountain or some kind of a i just by the way i just passed this house it's fucking flaming it's totally on fire it's not like a little on fire it's a lot on fire it's gone yeah it's already just

Good point. Completely gone. They're all just like, let it burn. Who cares? But here's the part that bothers me. All right. I'll even give you the exposition that Lewis does at his grave. Now, how about this? I waited too long with Gage. With Rachel, it'll work this time because she just died. She just died a little while ago. We don't need... He's carrying her. It's tragic. We don't need more from Lewis. Why are you defending this? But I'll defend it. Why? Because you need it. You don't.

The audience, if he just took Rachel and was walking to bury her, the audience would say, What is wrong with you? You know that it's not going to end well. This is a tragedy. It's Shakespearean tragedy. He's so far gone. After even what just happened with Gage, he's still going to go through with this.

You don't need reason. It's beyond reason. I see. I disagree. I don't, I think you need reason because you need you. Cause the, otherwise the audience is like, I am an audience member. I don't need it. I know. I didn't need it. I'm an intelligent person. So are a lot of people in the audience. You're insulting them.

I waited too long. It's like the, it's like, I know he did last summer. It's like talking in the mirror. It's like, I don't need all of this. But I understand why he would need to say that because. It's like he in his head, he thinks, oh, if I do this sooner, maybe it'll be. But it's still madness. That's why having Pascal just going.

Lewis, no, please. And having him scream and disappear. That's the power of that scene. Yeah, you're right. I give up. I can't save you. You're way too far gone. That says everything. He walks through him. Please, Lewis, no. Holy crap. I got goosebumps thinking about that. Yeah, yeah, that's true. I don't need. That takes me out. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yep. I'm just carrying my wife here in the middle of the road.

I don't know, man. Oh, my God. Anyway, let's do the ending and then we'll go to characters here, right? Okay. So it's kind of a little similar to King's. King has an epilogue in the book that has this scene. But the filmmakers, Mike, the way there's changes is...

The book ends with the wife coming back. Yes. And it's like, give me a kiss. Right. Or something that ends there. There's nothing. There's nothing else. There's nothing. Yeah. You're left to thinking, holy crap, here we are. Left up for imagination. But the film needed one more gross out. We just need one more thing.

And then, as we described, you get to see Rachel in all her glory. Gory glory. Yes, gory glory. That Gage did all the damage he did to her face. And then, maybe a step too far, the makeout scene. Well... that's a little weird, right? Because she grabs a knife and everything and you know, it's coming. You know, it's coming. Do you need the make out? It's just kind of, I guess the show and Lewis is just completely lost it at that. You know what they should have done.

is they should have had Lewis go, well, I guess I should kiss my wife now because I loved her very much. And if I kiss her now, it shows that I love her. We should have just had him do that, right? Because the audience needs that. Yes, totally. Get out of here with this shit.

So Lewis, obviously no regard for human life at this point. Definitely not his own. He's drunk on this reanimating powers of the burying ground. There's no morality left in him. That's the tragedy in and of itself. And I honestly think you didn't need to... It didn't bother me that he makes out with her.

Because people were gasping in the theater. I loved the experience. They were just grossed out. I don't think the story needs it. I don't think it needs it, but I think it's kind of cool. It just shows how far gone he is. At this point, that's going to be his destiny. committing to this and just going with it. It's destiny's ending right here. Well, that's it. Yeah, totally. So characters, characters. Yeah. So Missy, Missy Dandridge, a haunted, haunted woman. Yeah. Not a happy person.

No bad ass, no us. She has absolutely zero bedside manner either. She's crass. What did she say at the one point? She's talking to Ellie about something. She describes something in a certain way. I can't remember what it is. But it's funny. um rachel uh rachel i think because like does she have to talk about it like that yes um she has this pain in her stomach which we find out is cancer yes right and she drives her to take her own life yes and she's kind of you know

she's this figure of tragedy in a movie filled with more immense tragedy than this. And that's a tragic moment. See, anybody take their own life is always a horrible scene to show. Yeah. And it's bad. Yeah. Even though you don't. I mean, you get to know Missy enough that you're like, oh, crap. It came to this? Did she have a bigger part in the book? She's definitely in the book. Probably more.

Probably. She's out by like five minutes of this movie, right? No, not five minutes. Is it a little longer? Yeah, it's definitely like almost 25 minutes probably she's in it. She's in the whole beginning scenes and probably the first act. I think it's close to the first to the end act. All right. End of the first act. Gotcha.

Do you have anything else to say about Missy? No, she kind of clocked in for however long she was in the movie. So Gage, Mike, not even three years old. I love how you just cut me off. I'm sorry, what were you saying? No, no, no. I want to hear it. I want to hear what you're saying about Missy. No, it's gone.

Missy, Mike. I asked you if anything more and you said no. I said yes. Oh, I thought you said no. No, it's fine. It's all good. No, I was just going to say, she's just like the saddest person in the state. You know what I mean? It's terrible. Yeah, she's really sad. So, yep. I hate seeing scenes like that. people killing themselves it just bothers me yeah three years old not even

How do you pull this off acting wise? It's impressive. It's an impressive thing because what he does on camera is just unbelievable. But I know it's a lot of Mary Lambert, you know, working with him and, you know, she's hats off to her for directing a child like that. because that's tough that's hard work but you know but miko hughes what a great a talented kid you know the doc goes into this too how they really they made several days of him getting used to his his his film family right um

Judd and everybody before they went into the actual, what was going to happen. Yeah. So they got really used to being there. Sure. Yeah. Which I think speaks to. Yeah. So smart. I love that. Also speaks to why. He got upset when Judd yelled. Yes, because he was like friends. He didn't want to hurt him. This is my friend Judd. Yeah, exactly. It's my family. So again, shooting most of, like, it's just, it's the craziest thing, though.

It's such an over... You could easily over... Just, oh, I'm hiring this actor and they got to do their job. He's three years old. She really took the tender care to go the extra mile with him. Yeah, definitely. What about Ellie, though, Mike? I think she's kind of a brat. You know what I mean? In what way?

She's, I don't know, she's just whining all the time. You know what I mean? She's like the whiniest, she's like the whiniest person. She's, you know, brings her big brat sister energy, you know? She complains about church, like she's... Filling HR reports and ask questions. Lewis definitely can't answer, you know? HR reports. Oh, my God. By the way, there's twins. That's right. I think the one was the primary actress. Yeah. But you know how they have...

limitations for restrictions, how long a kid can be out. I think sometimes maybe for still shots or background, they probably did have the other girl come in. You could have double the, double the work. Well, that's it because they have to devote a certain time to school and that kind of stuff.

kind of helps with the production where they can just say, okay, you take a break, go to school and we're going to bring you in. So maybe you're right. Maybe they did like all the face kind of front shots, but they did some like. you know, wider shots or, you know, shots from behind or that kind of stuff. The acting and the talking dialogue scenes is, is blaze. I think her name was blaze bird doll or whatever. Okay. Gotcha. So Zelda.

So The Legend of Zelda is one of the most popular video games from our youth, Mike. That's true. Yeah, I remember. You would say it's probably the most popular. Yeah. I wasn't a Nintendo guy, but I definitely played it at friends' houses. Other than Super Mario, definitely one of the top games.

Came out in 86, actually. So if you say the word Zelda, the first thing people our age, some of them are going to think of is that game. Of course. Not me. When you say Zelda, what's the first thing that comes to your mind? Well, it's the game, obviously. Is it? Yeah, it is. It's not the first thing that comes to my mind. So you think of this Zelda? Immediately. Okay, gotcha. If I hear Zelda, I hear the voice. Oof. Matter of fact, this is what I say, Mike. Wait, there's a video game?

Do you really? I mean, at this point, because I'm so, this is traumatic, has followed me. god zelda goldman one of stephen king's most haunting characters And I love this was played by a guy, 18 year old man. They couldn't find the right female to kind of fit the part or the makeup or it just didn't look right. You know, so they did kind of the distortion of having this guy's face. I think they like this guy's face or something like that. And with me.

His personal acting choices too. Like he brought this stuff. Some of it. Yeah. That's like his stuff. Yeah. Which is crazy. The laugh. The way he moves. The voice is his. They didn't tell him that. He wasn't directed for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. there's no modulation on his voice or anything very true it's really cool so yeah i mean but instead of like garnering sympathy from the audience though this is a really interesting turn because you should feel sorry for her no but you don't

No. You're horrified. No. You're repulsed. You're Rachel. The audience is Rachel. Yeah. I almost laughed when, like, I'm glad she died. Like, I couldn't take it anymore. Yeah. Same with me. I want her to be gone, too, so I don't have to hear her laughing. Right, I know. Because she's scaring the crap out of me. Yeah, I know.

Yeah, she had that effect on everybody. It's just, oh, God. It's just awful. The image of her, forget it. But I love that we get put in Rachel's shoes there briefly. Yeah. So Victor Pascal, Mike. Oh, yeah. My favorite character in the whole movie. Well, he's the smartest guy in the whole picture.

Explain. Well, he's constantly warning, you know, the family, like not just Louis, Rachel too. He's just saying, don't do this. What are you doing? I think they had even more scenes planned that were scrapped. Really? Featuring him. Because there's probably more of him in the book, I would imagine. Yeah, there's a lot of him in the book. So I don't know how I feel about it. I mean, I feel like there's enough in the movie already. I do feel like there was enough.

And they spread it out pretty well. Yeah. But I don't know how I would have felt about much more because I don't know that we needed to see much more. No, no. So from the novel, here we go. From New Jersey, Victor Pascoe. Oh, interesting. He went to the University of Maine to study electrical engineering.

Victor's taking a job when he's hit by a car and flies headfirst into a tree. This is how he gets to be where he is. You don't get any backstory. No, you don't get it. You just see him. Yeah. So this is what happens. Wow. And after he dies, he comes back as a ghost, obviously, to try and help the Creed family because why? Lewis tried to help him. Yeah, of course. So he's going to pay it back, basically. But think about this, though. Victor can enter. He can control dreams. He can.

Yeah. He has these supernatural, he doesn't possess people per se, but. He can manipulate their thoughts. Remember when Rachel goes to rent a car? Yeah, and he's like talking to her and stuff. He makes her say what he's thinking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, what about the Dodge Aries with the scratch and the sock? Yes, that's right. And then she repeats it. Yeah. He can actually manipulate people's thoughts and make them say something.

crazy that's a crazy his powers yeah right totally yep um when you first see him of course he's got his brain leaking out of his head and i mentioned this to you because i think this bear repeats mike that i think victor is basically Jack from An American Werewolf in London. What do you think about that?

Yeah, I would agree with that. So Jack's trying to warn his buddy David he's going to become a wolf in the next full moment. Victor's trying to warn Louis Creed about the burial ground beyond the Peck Cemetery, telling him the ground is sour. Both characters die horrifically and return as ghosts to help the protagonist.

to avoid coming a tragedy, and they both are unsuccessful in their attempts. Both characters provide a welcome bit of levity or comic relief to an otherwise dark and disturbing story, while simultaneously making the audience gasp because they're in their state of...

when they died the whole time. In Jack's case, he's like even disintegrating and more and more and more every time you see him. So they're both two beloved horror characters that both... horrify and amuse the audience that's that's interesting so i don't know i just think it's such a parallel between the two of them that's kind of cool i i just wanted to say like you know the fact that um

he's kind of like the voice of reason. And he's sort of like trying to tell Lewis and Rachel over and over, you know, he's basically yelling, like, don't bury, bury anyone here. And Lewis is like, yeah, it'll be fine. And like suddenly it's not like Jurassic Park with dinosaurs. It's your toddler and a cat coming back from the dead.

Same chaos, but just like way, way creepier, you know? Parallel to Jurassic Park. You didn't think you were going to get that today. Jurassic Cemetery. That's it. I didn't think that was coming. No, I didn't see that. I love that, though.

Rachel, Mike. Yeah, Louis' wife. She's a great mom. She's a great wife. Is she? I mean, I think she... Listen, she left a rich... rich loaded lifestyle to follow her doctor husband right to the boonies in the middle of nowhere away from her family how can you say that she doesn't have no i'll give her that but she's kind of like she's got this attitude like she's right because she's kind of pissed off about being away from her family

Yeah, it's probably, that's what's leading into this. But the whole thing with death, you know what I mean? The trauma with her sister Zelda in the past probably has something to do with that. Yeah, but she's kind of like straight up rude to Judd. You know, when they meet Judd and stuff in the cemetery, she's not very nice. She's protective. She's overprotective. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe. Yep.

No. So Victor Pascal is my second favorite. I lied. Second favorite character. Judd's my favorite character. Judd's the best. Now played by Herman Munster himself, Fred Gwynn. People give him a lot of grief, Mike, over his main accent in this movie. It's very thick.

It is, but I think it's great. I think Missy's is great, too. I think they have the two best accents in the whole movie. Totally, yeah. But I adore Judd in this movie. To me, besides the plot, his character is the best thing. Because I think the plot's very strong in this movie. Yeah.

So according to a Screen Rant article I read, Mike, and this is the most interesting thing that I want you to, I'm going to make you think of Pet Sematary in a very different way. Okay. Okay. I did a little research about this, there's a Wendigo creature. You ever heard of the Wendigo? Yes, of course.

I'll be referring to it a lot because it provides a whole new lens, which we can view this movie. There's a wild theory about Judd's character. Okay. Judd's a native of this town, right? Right. Yeah. Okay. We know that. He's seen this sort of event many times before. Timmy Bader man. Yes. Knows the history of the Wendigo's powers and yet chooses to inform Lewis's of them anyway. He doesn't have to tell Lewis about it. No, he doesn't. Right. So.

My lens and the theory is this. The Wendigo's influence can manipulate people. And since Judd has been a resident's town for so long, he can't resist the pull of this creature that is influencing him to tell Lewis. That makes sense. Right? and creating this whole tragedy thus, right? So in a way, Judd causes this tragedy that happens to the whole Creed family. He's not really causing it, but he's the instrument that sets it all into motion, right? But why, Mike? Why did Lewis tell Judd?

I mean, why did Judd tell Lewis to bury Church beyond the Pet Sematary? Why? Right? He's under the power of this creature. That's true. Right? Which forced him to tell him about the Micmac Burying Ground. And... All that stuff, the tragedy begins to unfold. To me, if you look at it this way, Judd is driven by a...

a supernatural force that's not his own will. Right. That's fascinating. Yeah, it is. That's an interesting take on it. I didn't even think of that. That's kind of crazy. He even said, by the way, some of the dialogue jibes with this, too, because Lewis, after Gage's death... During the Timmy Baderman flashback, he says, I'm responsible for more pain in your heart than you should have tonight.

For all I know, I may be responsible for the death of your son. And he goes, I'm saying the police that may have made Gage die because I introduced you to the power. I may have murdered your son, Lois. He's all upset about it. But he's telling them. I did this. I did this. I can't control it, but I did this. Yeah, he's almost saying, like, maybe there was something else that forced me to tell you. Yeah, that's interesting. Does that take on a whole new meaning?

It does. When you think about it in this way. It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. Right. I don't know. Yeah. I got to take care. Ready? So Judd's super nice to Lewis. Right. Yeah. Gives him a beer, hangs out and casually introduces him to. supernatural consequences of bad decisions. So one minute he's lending Lewis olive oil. The next he's crawling through the brambles to unleash an undead pussy.

His generosity is, you'd have to admit, it's completely unbalanced, right, Matt? Wait, what? Hold on. The cat. The cat, Matt. The cat. The cat. Come on. Stay with me. Oh, my God. It's almost like he's saying, like, welcome to the neighborhood. Hope you like beer, small talk, and generational trauma. Oh, wow. Yeah. He's giving it out, but undead pussy, man. Undead pussy.

Is he in control of any of it? Well, with your new theory, it doesn't sound like he was. I don't think he was. Yeah, that's the first time I've ever heard that. I don't know, it just makes you think about the whole story in a different way.

Lewis Creed, Mike. What do you think about Dale Midkiff, the guy that plays Lewis? I think he's pretty good. He's not my favorite performance. He chews some scenery in this movie. Yeah, a little bit. I think it's what you were talking about, all the sort of exposition that he has to push out.

doesn't really help with his acting chops. I just don't know if it's him or Mary Lambert. That's what I can't figure out. Well, it's in the script. No, no, the script. I'm talking about... His performance, you mean? His reaction when he sees Church come back? He literally, like... falls down in the garage. Right. It's so overblown and over, it's so melodramatic. Right. Now I know, was he a soap opera actor or something? I think he was, yeah, which makes sense. I mean, come on, it's a little bit.

too much, but what about the bathtub scene when the rat falls in there? He's like, what the fuck? It got electrocuted or some shit. I know, I know. Get out! Get out! He's like, it's okay, dude. Relax. Holy God. Get a grip, Lewis. Yes. But you brought this up before. We need to. We need to.

Cross this path right now. Okay. Is he the most dishonorable, despicable dad in cinema? I kind of think he is because he's just made so many bad decisions and they keep piling on and piling on, you know, just the first bad decision. Was it a bad decision for him to move to this town? Yes. It probably was. Yes. Everything was fine where they were, except for he wasn't happy with Rachel's.

Did the Native American Wendigo have that far of a reach? You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you mentioned it, and I think it's really interesting to explore. I agree. I just think, you know, from bad decision to bad decision, even when Gage is kind of running to the street, like literally.

Nobody is looking in his direction at all. And they know. The trucks. They know. They know because of what happened when they moved in. So I don't know. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You know what I mean? And watch that scene again.

the gauge going running because he on purpose, it's almost like he's going to go. Yeah. But then he's like, he turns around and he starts like getting into this laughing thing with his daughter. What are you doing? I know. I know. Oh man. Mike, how many times does he lie to Ellie? Promise, promise, promise. Kiss your own cat. When she asks him how church is doing, he knows he's already... Kiss your own cat.

It's so interesting he's a doctor as a job because his job, think about this, this is a stroke of genius in King's part. His job is to stop death, right? And he can't stop death in this movie. So he loses Victor Pascal as his first test. Fail. Brand new job he's taken. Hits him pretty hard. He sees himself as an abject failure, as he should.

So when the opportunity comes later to prevent death, Mike, this is where it all comes in. He failed so miserably in his first attempt on his first day. But now his child and his wife are on the line here. This is much more personal. Now he's determined not to fail. Right, right. And he'll do anything. not to fail. Right? Yeah. So even if it means he has to resort to supernatural means, defying all logic and science which he was raised on and schooled in, you know, he's going to do it. Yeah.

Well, his job as a doctor is to bring people back to life and to make sure they survive. So in his head, this is the right thing to do. You know what I mean? Combined with this possible supernatural influence of this Wendigo, right? And think about it. Some of these doctors who are really good at their jobs, God complex. Yeah, that's true. Right? Yeah. Coupled, though.

with something that you can't account for, but in this situation, this irrepressible grief that he has. Yeah, of course. That's spiraling. So the combination of those two. Oh my God. Two, I think it was three or four things. But yeah, you're right. There's so many, so many, there's a cocktail of disaster and tragedy.

But Mike Lewis is the cinematic character correction, I think, for Stephen King because he's the anti-Jack Torrance. Unlike Jack and the Shining, we get to see the loving and tender father here and husband at the beginning of the movie, which we don't see. in The Shining movie, you see in the book, you see in the movie, which makes it so emotionally charged for the audience to have to watch Lewis get consumed by grief to the point where he becomes this irrational, unhinged, grief-stricken...

insane person. So there's a lot of tragedy inherent in that because Mary Lambert and the screenplay and Stephen King's story give you that breath and that depth. I don't know if they did, but I bet you if you ask somebody on a really personal level...

I think that that was on purpose. It's almost like a reaction to The Shining. Right. Right? Yeah, I would agree with that. Could be. For sure. So lastly, Mike, would you have anything else on him? No, no, I don't. I'm good. Stephen King. Stephen King is a character. Okay. I mean.

Well, he does act in this movie. He does act? Actually, he's not bad. I mean, for what he had to do, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was good. He's definitely good. He plays the guy at the funeral. You know what I mean? The priest at the funeral. Yeah, the priest, yep. But his influences, Frankenstein.

Jekyll and Hyde. Yep. Bram Stoker's Dracula. Right. Yeah. And the monkey's paw. Yes, that's right. Yeah. Which is be careful what you wish for story. Yes. Right. Essentially. Yeah. You know, you can get your wish, but the consequence is going to be.

Not threefold or don't mess with fate. Right. And again, these texts like this destruction of the family, this monstrous presence, threatening to overwhelm normative behavior secrets. By the way, they bring up the whole thing about even Judd says, you know, the.

that a woman, you know, secrets should be a woman's thing, but, you know, you don't know the man's heart. You don't know into a man's heart. It goes into the whole thing about the women and men and whether they can keep secrets or not. It gets really deep. There's more here than really...

You have to watch it several times to really get all this stuff. Yeah. Right? I'm not going to go into the Wendigo character anymore, feeding off the grief of people. And, you know, it's so powerful. I think really looking through it in this way, really, it's a new way of looking at the movie. What do you think? About the Wendigo? Yeah.

Well, you've opened my eyes. The Native American cautionary tale. Right. That's what it was. You've opened my eyes about this draw and this pull. You know what I mean? The fact that Judd maybe had an influence. You know what I mean? It's kind of interesting. Because it feeds off the grief of people.

How cool is that? That's kind of cool. Right. Interesting. Like almost possesses them. Right. And I feel like that's got to be a bigger part in the book. Yeah, it definitely into that. It's definitely more of. in subtext and not just an actual text rather than just yeah that's cool excellent um and and just the fact that people are coming like they're evil darker form forms when they come back yeah

So quotes, Mike. Any interesting ones? Well, the most obvious ones. Sometimes dead is better. The poster, man. Yeah. One of the great taglines. What a great line. What a great written line by Stephen King. You know what I mean? Sometimes dead. It's awesome. I don't want Church to get his nuts cut, Daddy. Is that what Missy told him, by the way? Maybe. Was it that? Maybe that would make sense. I feel like, yeah, she got that from him. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Christ on his throne? No. And who would ever? Is that the Scottish? Is that the Scottish? Yeah, I don't know. I love that. You're a better judge. No, I love that you did that too. I love Victor. The barrier was not meant to be crossed. And then Lewis goes, it's not my fault you died. You were as good as dead when they brought you in. The ground beyond is sour, Doc. Yeah, when he just throws that in there. Yeah. That's great.

I got another Judd for you. Should I do Irish Judd? Do Irish Judd. No, I can't do Irish Judd. I like when he says, this is the place where the dead speak. Yes. So good. In the beginning, that's the beginning scene when he's talking to Ellie, right? Yeah. Ellie's like, yes.

That's where Rachel gets so... Yeah, Rachel gets all pissed off and stuff. What we did, Lois, was a secret thing. Women are supposed to be the ones who are going to keep it secret, but any woman who knows anything at all will tell you she'd never seen it to a man's heart. The soil of a man's heart is stoner, Louis. Like the soil up there in the old Micmac bearing ground. Judd has these great lines. I love how you're chewing gum when you do this. Yeah, he's chewing. Yeah, that's great.

My father used to have a saying, Judd, God sees the truth, but waits. That's great. I love that line, by the way. You said that as like... He's very calm when he says it. No, he is, but it's almost like Keanu Reeves or something. Yes. It's very much in that... Yeah. Yeah. Zen voice. Yes. Sometimes that is better you said that. Yep.

Gage, come on out. I brought you something. What do you got? Oh, no, it's kind of not leading off of that, but I just have a gauge line. I brought you something, Mommy. I brought you something, Mommy. That is evil. That is evil, dude. So evil. And there's a cool little line here at the end when the Rinko truck driver actually brings Rachel.

Yes, that's right. And Victor's in there too. He's like, well, I didn't get a ticket, lady, so you're welcome. Whatever your problems are, I hope they work out. And Victor goes, it's the end of the line for me too. I'm not allowed any further. And Rachel goes, I'm sure things will be fine. And he smiles in the passenger seat and goes, I'm not. Yeah. And he just drives away. And I was like, wow. Yeah. All right. Well, there it is. Yeah. That's great. So good.

I mean, I can't impersonate it because you have the thing already, so it's just so good. Yeah, just play that thing again. It's so good. Oh, my God. Yeah, but I want to hear you do it. I'm going to twist your back like mine so you'll never get out of bed again. Never get out of bed again. Never get out of bed again. I think that's pretty good, man. That was good, Matty. Anyway, sorry upstairs. Yeah, that's all good. That was awesome. Go on. Lay down. Play dead. Be dead!

He just goes from like three to like 30. You know what I mean? By the way, eat your own advice. He puts church out. Be dead. So then why are you going? Yes. You're not letting them be dead. You keep reanimating everybody. Yeah. And you're about to bring your wife back. Exactly. What are you doing? Idiot. Come on. Oh, God.

A man grows when he can, he tends it. Because what you buy is what you own. And what you own always comes home to you. Yeah. So good. His lines are so good. Yeah. I want to play with you.

I want to play with you, mommy. Score, Mike. Beautiful. Oh, God. Goldsmith, right? It's not. It's Elliot Goldenthal. Oh, Goldenthal. Yes, very close. Okay. reminds you a little like Jerry Goldsmith. It does. In parts, but it's not overblown. It's very kind of...

In the beginning, like you said, it's that children's choir and it is kind of Jerry Goldsmith-esque and Omen-like and Amityville-like. That was a good call, by the way. It was a great call. Almost like Poltergeist, too, a little bit. Yeah. In the smaller moments of Poltergeist. Poltergeist gets really big. Well, it does, but I mean like the orchestral.

yes like you said in the softer kind of but there's a beautiful little gentle piano motif um at the end when oh okay when lewis is walking or with uh well in the end when he's slumped against the fridge to come back it's like it's just beautiful and

It's a mirror image of what happened in the opening scene as it plays over a strong, loving family unit. You show Ellie sleeping in her bed. The kids are asleep. Everything's brand new. But now at the end, the family's fractured. The music represents Lewis's fractured mind.

And he's imagining Rachel coming back and they begin again to get back to that place of being that family. But they'll never get there. So it's this tragic and beautiful touch of reintroducing that theme. Yeah, it's such a good difference of like...

beginning to the end of the film and just oh my god that's amazing what about the ramones title song oh it's great dude i think it's good i think it's so cool that i remember seeing that in the documentary king invited them up to maine to like meet with them and they went yeah

And they rode it in his house, apparently. Yeah. How fucking cool is that? In like 40 minutes or something. Dude, they fucking got in a van and drove up like, you know, like. He was a huge Ramones fan. They probably drove the same way that we went up when we used to go to Salem. Probably. They were all like driving up in a van and then. Go up to Maine. How cool is that, man? Dude, do you know it got nominated for a Razzie for Worst Song? That's...

Isn't it? Why? Because it's on the nose or something? Who knows? Who cares? These people don't know. Oh, that's awful, dude. That makes no sense. I can't hear Sheena as a punk rocker and not think of that scene. Oh, I know. It's so great. It's impossible. Yeah, that's so good.

it's tough yeah it's impossible it is it is and the fact that he's so joyous and just so into it you know what i mean yeah and he butchers it you know what i mean it's just last thing before your amazing thing that we're going to do here if you had to get a tattoo of this film what would it be

I said the sign because I'm... Oh, the misspelled sign. Yeah, because... Good call. You know, I recently got this summer, I got the no swimming sign from Jaws, and I'm just obsessed with signs. I love lettering and typography, so...

Bond, that kind of stuff. Yeah, that sign is just so fucking cool, man. It is. And the misspelling. Yeah, I love that. It's an innocence and a kind of warped. Yeah, so I would just get that and maybe just have some tombstones in the background kind of thing. What about you? I don't know. For some reason, just that... The picture, the still frame of like Church with like a hunched up back and his yellow eyes just kind of sticks with me. Yeah, all right. Kind of like is...

I don't want to get Victor Pascal. Yeah, I was going to say he's on the poster as well. Yeah, but I just picture the cat. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Excellent. All right, Matt, you ready for something? Let's do it. I'm ready. Matt. I got a little game for you. All right. It's time for dead or better. Okay. I'm going to name something that's gone to the great beyond and you tell me.

If it would come back dead or better. Oh, yes. It would come back dead or better. Got it. Okay. Got it. All right. This is opinion, I hope. Yeah, it's opinion based. We're not giving you a score on this one. No.

I'll just be judgmental the whole way through. You're going to be judgmental? Judgmental. All right. All right, here we go. Some are, you know, we're kind of keeping it to the movie, but there's some throwbacks to when we were kids. So dead or better now that it comes back. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. You ready? Got it. Church the cat. Dead or better? Dead. Yeah, totally. Gage. I mean, I'm thinking dead. Yeah, keep them dead, right? Right. All right. Dead.

You're a big King fan. You ready? Yeah. Cujo. Better. Yeah? You want to see Cujo come back? Yeah. But like as old school Cujo. As old school. Friendly Cujo. Friendly Cujo. Pre-bite. Can he come back that way? Probably not. Are you ready? Blockbuster video. Dude, way better. Better. I think it's ready. I think it's waiting to happen. It's ready for a comeback. I really do. I think people would go. I think people would go, too, for the nostalgia, for the experience.

You know, families going together. Because every kid has heard, like Gen Y kid, right? They've all heard. About the legend of it, yeah. What is it? Friday night. Yeah. You can't go. I know. I know. All right. You ready? Yeah. I've spent many, many a day in this store. Radio Shack. Dead or better? Do we need it? I'm asking the person that has no technological...

Yeah, but you need inkling at all. It has important stuff in it. It does. And I'd rather go there than Best Buy, honestly. That's true. So better. You're going to say better? Okay, good. All right. Don't know if you saw the documentary, but John Candy, dead or better? Way better. Better.

I miss him. I miss him, too. What an amazing actor. By the way, Thanksgiving, planes, trains, and automobiles. Go watch it. It's one of the greats. It's a great Thanksgiving movie. That and Son-in-Law. Yes, agreed. Which I just watched Friday night. Tradition.

All right. You ready? Yep. The time to make the donuts guy. Dead or better from Duncan. Dead. You don't care? Him and the Wendy's lady. Where's the beef? Yeah. Keep him out. All right. All right. There you go. I don't think you had this, but.

Your old iPod classic. Did you have an iPod back in the day? Why not? Bring it back, though. Bring it back. Yeah, better. You never had an iPod, did you? You lent me one for years. I lent you one. So you had mine. I had yours, yeah. All right, cool. All right.

This is where it's going to get tough, Matt. Ready? Uh-oh. Pet Sematary 2019 remake. Dead. Keep it dead. Dead. Not a fan. I'm not a huge fan of that. Okay. But there was some interesting scenes, but I love John Lithgow. Big time. Okay, yeah, but...

There's a lot of things they do in there just to be different. I don't know. Yeah. All right. We got three more. Ready? Yep. Creed, the band. They are actually touring a lot more now, aren't they? They are, yeah. I don't know if they're better than they used to be. Yeah. I've kind of grown to like them. Everyone made fun of them, but I'm like, yeah, they're pretty good. Them and Nickelback. People hate them. That Nickelback documentary sold me. I didn't see it. It's good. What's it called?

I'll just look it up. Yeah, it's really good. Nickelback. Yep. All right. Two more. You ready? Yeah. Your old AOL instant messenger screen name. Dead or better? Dead. What was your screen name? I don't even remember. It's dead. It's dead to me. It's completely dead to me. It might be dead. Stay there. You know my wife still has an AOL email address? Does she? I think so. AOL.com? Yeah. Wow.

All right, last one. You ready? I am. Doc Brown's DeLorean. Oh, bring it back. Bring it back. Better. I want to drive that. The best. How about best? The best. Yeah, deader best. I love it. All right, Matt. Thanks for playing. That was fun. Dude, that was a lot of fun, man. It was a really, really great idea, by the way.

Thank you. Love it. No problem. All right. So we're rating this bad boy? We're rating it. All right. You want me to go first this time? Sure. All right. I'm going to give this a three and a half, Matt.

I do love this movie. I really do. I appreciate it. I think the direction was great. I think the setting was amazing. The acting is... is pretty awesome you know i mean for the most part we talked about lewis a little bit you know kind of with the no better no worse yeah no better no us um but this is definitely not a rewatchable movie for me for several reasons well

For reasons of the trauma that I feel from the pets dying and like the shots. Gage, seeing Gage get hit and the flashback sequences like we talked about earlier. They do that twice, by the way. What? The flashback sequence. Judd sees it, and Rachel sees the flashback of Gage getting... Judd sees it? Not Judd, I'm sorry. Louis season and Rachel season, which is just super traumatic. So for me, this is like a movie that I'll probably put back on the shelf.

and I won't watch it until we talk about it again or something like that for the podcast. Yeah, it's not rewatchable for me. It's just not. Oh, if this was on a... Fall right into it. Okay, so I would choose to put something else on, but I do really like this movie. I think it's an amazing feat, and it's a beautiful film, and I think it's one of the best interpretations of probably a King novel, even though I've never read Pet Sematary. You've got to read it.

I know. I really want to. Why don't we do a reread together? That'd be awesome. We should do like a mini book club. We got to do that. Yeah, that'd be fun. So three and a half for me, Matt. Mirror is exactly what I have. Holy shit. Three and a half. What did you think I was going to do? Give it a five?

I thought you were going to give it like a four at least. No, this is a three and a half movie. It's a really, really, really good movie. It's a story of stifling grief. We often mention emotional horror, Mike, and I can't think of many movies that hit me more emotionally than this one. You already outlined that pretty well. Yeah.

i was 14 going on i think maybe i was 15 when this came out um i expect i had my experiences with death wakes funerals etc um losing someone is hard yeah but getting to this point uh you can't shake this movie easily either after seeing it like you said yeah some of the visuals stick with you the zelda yep the gauge scene yep um just so many um victor's pascal's face

well yeah i mean i used to honestly go to bed and like open my eyes a couple times and look at the door frame and think maybe he'd be leaning there like ready to go for a walk like come on here we go yeah yeah the makeup is unbelievable yeah i mean i had to go

And then between that and then I had to make sure Zelda wasn't sitting on my bed. Oh, God. Maybe Gage wasn't underneath my bed. Yes. With the medical scalpel. There's a whole bunch of trauma going on. You step up to pee in the middle of the night. So three and a half for me. All right, that's interesting. That's so funny that we're aligned on that. We are aligned. Yeah, so pairing this, Mike. Sure. What do you think? I'm going to pair this with Amityville Horror, and I'll tell you why. It's...

Two movies about families that move into a new location and something really traumatic happens and bad things start to happen. You know what I mean? That's a cool pairing. I just thought it was kind of cool. It is.

Sort of around the same time. Not really. It's probably a decade apart or so. It is exactly a decade apart. 79 was Amityville. But I think it's kind of cool. So you get a 70s and you get an 80s film. You know what I mean? I like that pairing a lot. Yeah, I think it's good. What about you?

So I always cheat with this. It's like an old one and a newer one. This one's 10 years old. So 2015 is a movie called We Are Still Here. It's a cool little indie film. It's a couple dealing with grief caused by the death of their son.

It veers a little more into like malevolent spirits with like who demand a sacrifice and stuff. But the connection to Pet Sematary is undeniable, Mike. Grief that distorts reality. It eats you alive and makes you unable to let go. Sounds like a perfect pairing then. Yeah, it's a really...

interesting movie but the one that i mentioned before about they show the death of the child in a way but they do it in such a different different way pet cemetery is the visceral yeah it doesn't show everything but you see more than you

need to see your mind right right like the shower scene almost yes but don't look now yeah donald sutherland 1973 which we tried we read that that entertainment weekly article with kevin williamson and we were like we got to find this movie and that's how i found this movie yep

you know, 20 something years ago. It deals with a couple trying to recover from the accidental death of their daughter. Yes. Right. And again, how grief can distort reality perception. It's an exploration of how mourning can lead to an obsession and unravels one's sense of self. linking the dad John Baxter in Don't Look Now and Lewis Creed in Pet Sematary. Plus the incredible uniqueness, the way that filmmakers present the child death scenes. Don't Look Now is so dreamy.

weird and strange yeah and it doesn't directly show you much of anything sure but it's like a painting yeah it's so interesting the way nicholas rogue is the director of that film presents it and versus what mary lambert did here But those are my two choices there. That's good. I like that, Matty. That's excellent. Very cool. So, Matt, super fun. This is great.

Pet Sematary, man. Yeah, this was awesome. Yeah, there it is. I don't have the VHS, unfortunately, so I couldn't put it on the back. You wouldn't get it anyway because you wouldn't rewatch it. Well, I would like to own it, though. It would be kind of a cool, and I feel like that wouldn't be one that's probably super expensive. You know what I mean? I could probably get that for a couple of years.

couple you know bucks or so so um so yeah so matt you're gonna leave us with something i think right i am mike because uh i think it's so important to say that you and i are here and we do this and um

You know, somebody once said a wealth of information creates a poverty of attention. And everybody out there, man, the world is just trying to get your attention. Social media and everywhere, they send you these algorithms and they want your attention. They vie for your attention. And you spend your attention here with us. Yeah.

And it's really valuable. It is. Because your attention is a kind of currency. It really is. I believe that. And because you're the commodity, you're in control of that, and you decide to spend your precious time with us, we want you to know you're never really alone in the dark, are they? As long as you're with us, we see you. We appreciate you and we love you. Until next time, just be good to each other and keep watching horror.

And be good to each other. Yeah. But thank you for listening to us. Yes. Thank you for giving us your time. Absolutely. And you couldn't have said any better, Matt. So happy Thanksgiving to everybody. We hope you have a great time with your families. We will see you in December. Happy Thanksgiving. And join us on Patreon. Join us on Patreon. All right. Take care, guys. All right. Take care.

And at night when the moon is bright, someone cries something in red. I don't want to be buried in a pet cemetery. I don't want to be buried in a bed. Yeah.