Wood Harris | Ep 111 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

What's going on right now? I know you're working on this new Lakers series. Let's get right to it. Talk to us about this Lakers series you're working on. Uh, we're doing the Lakers eighties right now, which is is um showcasing on like the success of the well the ups and downs of the Lakers and a lot of back stories. And I'm like, I portrayed Spencer Haywood shut so yeah, So I got to meet the actual Spencer. I told a shock that I I finally I went pro with the Lakers. But you know it's all good.

So Spence, uh correct me from Spence was he tried to jump right, He was the first one to try to jump. Yeah, Spencer Haywood is the reason why people come out of school early, and not just him, but there were a few different athletes at that time who ended up having go all the way to the Supreme Court with their case to be able to go pro. And from that point, I would say that Spencer Haywood. All the pros know who Spencer Haywood is, but I don't think he like I don't think he's as known

as he probably should be. All right, So, um, so his story is in this story some it's not. It's not completely with his story. We don't go into the whole court case that's mentioned again. It's about the Lakers, and it's dealing with the relationships of all the teammates, UM and behind the scenes as well. So it's a lot. It's a lot. So what is it like to to to work I mean historical teams such as the Lakers, um,

you know, playing such a historical character. They had a lot to do with how Kobe came in the game, Kevin Garnett came in the game, some of these other stars that you know kind of ran the league for a while. But what do it like to play in a situation like that man. Um, you know, I'm prepared for it that I would say as as a as a as an experienced talent. You know, just I'm kind of prepared for it. You know, I play a lot of real life people, so I kind of had my

own method. And but it's large though. It's the shot epically too. It's shot in film. Most things that shot digital was shot in film. So it's a really epic, epic HBO series dealing with the Lakers. It's a little pressure though, because you know, I mean, Spencer Haywood is intense on know if you guys know he's intense. You know, he's intense, So you know, I want to get it right. And at the same time, you know, it's not all about Spencer Haywoods, but I want to get it right.

He's very intense, So you know, it's a little preciure. When does that you guys know that, I think I think early next year, in March or so. Yeah, I think in March's gonna look out for that definitely. So take us back Chicago, Illinois, son of Maddie and John. That's it. I grew up on the West Side, West Side of Chicago. Um, yeah, you know, me and my mom, my bro, my dad. Um, you know, very uh what do I you know, I mean typical, I guess ghetto type situation as they say, you know, Um, but we

had a lot of basketball influence. You know. We went to the same grade school in high school as I Saiah Thomas, and my brother was close with that with Isaiah's family. So my brother and Isaiah's nephew were best friends, are our best friends. So as a kid, you know, I was around Isaiah Thomas and just basketball was just every It just was every It just was everything. With the school system that I went to. I went to

the same high school as Hoop Dreams. If you have private school with coach Paint who I think he died last year. But um, so we had a strong connection to that, Hoop Dreams and whatnot. Like that's what it was like growing up. It was very much but those days, you know, I'm in the eighties. I mean it was heavy street, you know, heavy street influences, So a lot of a lot of a lot of streets, um, dominance and those in the community I grew up in. What

kept you on that path? Really? My brother, my brother is an actor, Steve Harris, who Um, people know him from his show in the Practice and he also did um, just many movies and he's on BMF two Family. Yeah. Yeah, it's my older brother, and so you know, I always say like he's my older he's my older brother, older

enough to be a real older brother, you know. Like so I think he ended up being sort of like a guiding light for me in a sense where I could have been um drawn to you know, the dark side of the moon and ship my brother kind of like no, no, not still on the list side of the moon, bro, your brother. My brother's is a cop. Yeah, he got a ball head. His name is Steve Having. Yeah yeah, yeah, I've been around for a minute. Awards. Yeah.

So you obviously basketball being a heavy influence. The arts came into your life early to what what what got you doing that? It was always just very artistic just as a person. I still am, you know, a painter, musician, different instruments. I just was always are just very artistic and just that's just just my own thing, you know. Um, I don't think those communities make a lot of arts centers, and you know what I'm saying, So, um, you know what what happened with me is. I just had a

great interest in acting, you know what I mean. I was just drawing to it, watching the TV and just being drawn into it as a kid, and um to get away from the community. One of the means of getting away with you gotta go. You gotta go to school. If you don't go to away. If you don't go to school, then you're probably gonna be there get a job. If nothing pulls you away, you're gonna be there. You gonna get a job. I probably end up having a baby or something. Boom, Now you're there, you know what

I'm saying. My brother went away to school and then he came and got me one weekend. Was like, now you gotta see like college life, you know what I'm saying. So I went. I went to his college for then I was there, this this ship cool, I could do some other shit, you know what I'm saying. Like, and so I auditioned for college and then I got a scholarship, and at that point that's pretty much money, you know. So I started to like see it differently, you know.

And then I wanted to be skilled and not just using intuition all the time. So you want to be skilled, you can Like, I'm not a skilled painter, I'm a skilled actor. I can paint and I'm a skilled actor. Because what age did you fall in love with acting? Pretty young? You know? Whitey titis, you know what I'm saying, Cereal preteen, colorful, cereal black and white movies. You know, I like, I fell in love with some of the older black and white movies, um, with James Cagney and

Humphrey Bogard and stuff like that. And then I was sort of like as a kid, you know, I would go in the other room and be acting like them. You know. So it was probably my niche really early on to be involved. And um, I really never said I never saw anything else. I never saw anything else as it for me as far as what I wanted

to do. Um. And even though basketball and the sports in general is not just basketball when I say basketball is because but sports in general, you know, it was a lot because you can't go act, you gotta do something, you know what I'm saying. That you just can't go do a play by yourself. So, um, you know, I'm competitive and I think sports that's why I mean, so it's just a mean a lot to me. I'm competitive,

and acting is not really a competition. You know. Maybe you compete to get a role if you're in the process of auditioning, and well, that's the competition. But if I'm doing a scene with y'all, it's not a competition, you know, and we're telling the story. And I'm not really trying to be better than you. I'm not trying to outdo anything in the scene. Um, but my competitive spirit is just helps me. I think it just puts

confidence in me. You had a really talented class at one point where a lot of people who went on and had some other success um in the acting space. What was it like being around those names at that time and did you see that in them? Did you guys see it in each other? Like you know we do the au shoipd that's similar to playing au ball, Like damn, they all played together at one point. Like, you had a class with several actors in it that

all made it big. But you know, yeah, but it's like on the hindsight, you know, it's a hindsight thing now, but during during like in the moments of being in class, one of them was Mike Hall, who people know is Dexter. So we went to school together, went the same school with Jeffrey Wright. Uh Sterling k Brown. It's Sterling Kate Brown. Um uh ma hursal um. Yeah, but it didn't you know, it's just you just don't really know. So at that time it's just like the a you know, he cold,

but still don't know. You don't know anything happened. So it's still that thing. All this, all this stuff is rock and roll. If it's basketball, music, acting, it's just rock and roll because it's it's it's got a hustle to it that it's just built into it's it's a hustle built into it. You gotta hustle as the individual and even the business aspect. If you don't learn it, you'll be hustled on. If you learn it, then you do the hustle, you know. So you know, it's not

like it's rock and roll. You know, it's rock and roll. So Broadway career, you played Harold Mitch Mitchell and the Broadway revival of a street car named Desire. That's right by Tennessee Williams. What's different between Bara Away and film, Well, Broadway is like instant gratification. You know, It's like, um, you know, you got the fans right there. It's like you know, I always say that basketball. A lot of love about the sports is that it's theater in the

sense that it's live. So that's the Broadway aspect of it. You know. Um, it's live and everything goes. So if you mess up, then that's gonna be captured for the people in the audience, you know. And as opposed to now they want to look at Matt Barnes shake the ball at Kobe. You know, it was that, but it was it was but that was live. I ain't no

re enacting that. You too, then't want to see you y'all have your famous moments now it's just captured, you know, digitally, But it was live, so you know, you had that experience live, You had that experience. It's the same thing. You know, theater juxtaposed film or television is um it's dope because you just get the live, live experience, you know. And so if somebody is crying, you can hit them in the audience crying, you know, or laughing or whatever

it is. You know, so you love them equally the same. I do. Yeah, I don't. I don't see one as you know, I don't see any To me, the arts in general are just it's really just um, like a box of crayons in a sense. So every kid had a box of crayons, and then I'm older than y'all. Some of y'all had the box with the damn with

the glitter creons and ship. But I remember the little box with I think it's five colors and the eight colors types the basics, And so my imagination is just that I don't really see rap or acting or those things are all just how you use the colors that you have. It's your it's your use that you can utilize. So to me, I don't really see a difference in the arts so much. It's just can you, um manifest that from your imagination? Can your imagination bottle the performance

or the painting or the song. It's coming from a place of kind of nowhere, so you know, figuring it out, it's a math to it. There's math to art, and all art is math. You know, a song is is math. So figuring that things out so that you have something dope, it's something else you know, um, And then that depends

on the type of artists you are. If you the type that like, I don't you know, I don't really um listen to too much of what somebody says about a performance because I did it all, I did it already doesn't matter so much yes or no, meaning you know, whether they like it or not. So I usually just get people who tell me they love it or you know, pretty much they say they love it. And then occasionally you get somebody funk you. That's part of it. Thank you,

somebody come and take you know what I mean. But but really though, like um ignoring the um, the yeas and the knees, it's a good thing to be involved with, ignoring what people think and yes, and I mean the good and the bad basically, but the roum big moment in my life, I know, big moment of your life too, from the movie to the soundtrack. How was it? Uh actually being in that move and also been along with

the with the late grade park acting with him. Man, Well, I take Tupac first because Tupac in the in the moments of it just knowing him, you know, and I love hip hop and hip hop head but at the time, I uh, I mean, I wasn't the biggest fan of Tupacs. There was a lot of rappers to like, and they all were different and nothing like that. Today they're all the same, you know, But back then they were all different, and I was a fan, but I wasn't like, oh

Man tupacet so I wasn't like sitting up there. When I first worked Denzel, I was like, damn. So I said, like he's a major influence on me. So at the time, that was my first first movie or first thing, first professional thingum of that, of that like in films that hell have I wanted to start with. Yeah, um, Park was always tell people he kind of like put himself out there. I can't tell you something different about Poc.

You know that you couldn't think, I mean, you know what he was like, like it was honest to the where he was. But he did have a side where he could talk about like he was sudden talk about Lorraine Hansberry, who wrote the play, um a Raisin in the Sun, or talk about Gandhi, all in the same conversation, you know, you a one on one situation, you know. So he was And then I talked to him a couple of weeks before he died too, and that was different because it was just brief a brief Hello, what's

up this and that? But my mom, man, this and that, excuse me. Two weeks later he died. He was killed, as everyone knows. But um, the film. Working on the film itself was you know, a dream, you know what I'm saying. I mean, I got a movie and it was my first thing I have an audition for, you know, so it was really a drug. That's the first one you ever auditioned for. This first of one again, my brother, right, my brother set that up because I can hoop, you

know what I'm saying, Not like you got professional. Yeah, I mean I always feel like outside to product tell your funny story. One time I had to when the NBA went on I'll get back to it in a second. But when the NBA went on hiatus and I think the Spurs one that year, what was that not not No? Nine nine? I thought I could be Like I tried. I tried to dunk on Robin one time, block my ship so crazy again, it was back then, I just like I just thought, like I thought I could be

a professional basketball play. A lot of cats think they can. Let me tell you what snapped me out of it. So what I had to understand about it, right, because I wasn't conditioned. I have nobody to help me condition to be a professional athlete or even a top notch athlete. So all my stuff is just me, right, it's not even any trained stuff. Um. But in nine I'm in Philly filming a movie and the strike happened, so a lot of the players be from Philly. They found a gym,

So I forgot who told me? Told me that the players got a gym? Going to the gym? What I could go to? I'm going to the gym. I'm not I'm gonna lose some of the names. Yeah, I'm gonna forget something that all these cats went on to be so legit pros so. But the one I had to stick right, So I don't want to stick somebody in my hand like six three, six four, Right, I'm gonna pass my shoes. I'm about six four and so change right if I have to, I come in the gym.

The only Canama on my height is Coatino mopening. It's a long day's coming out with Rhode Island. At that point, anint know who he was. You know he was humble, he was chilling. Oh yeah, hen't say ship to me, he was just like, okay, cool, what when I tell you? Cat, It was like, not only was he just nice, you underestimate how much work it is happening on the court.

When you're watching it. It It just looked like they're floating on the court and ship no man, that is And even the pickup games, you know, he expected to pick up game. When I play a pick up a civil a civilians pickup game, there's resting moments. I have a resting moment, bro, my pattern of resting moments I could I was, I literal thought I was gonna know, I'm not kidding. My heart never be so hard as to guard.

And that was Katina Mobile And he was dope, I went on to be at least I said it was him right, at least it was anyway, Um, he's still dope, Yeah he still he is still though, But anyway, Um, it was above the rim and so, um, just getting back on that for a second, Um, and what were just talking about the process of it just being there? Yeah, well, I mean it was. It was a dream come true.

At the time though, I had gotten into ny U because I really expected to do a lot more theater and just like I told you I was looking for skill, you know. Um, just like in basketball, you got at some point you gotta have skill, which means you gotta work on something. People think they can act without skill. It does require skill. And you can't just go get a ball and shoot around and become at least a

good free throw shooter, you know what I'm saying. If you can do that on your own with a basketball, but in acting, how do you get How do you manifest skill? So you kind of almost have to learn it through experience, which is what you have to go through. You have to learn through experience or you have to be taught like um. Or you can have both of them happen, you know what I'm saying. Same with doing

directing or working in these things. It's not as easy as looks, just like on the screen, right, UM, So expect things to be different because there's pressure when it goes three to one. Action different than this pressure pressure of memorization, pressure of um yeah, getting it right, because it's not just memorization. You gotta get this glass, simple ship, right. You gotta take this glass to the sink and say your lines. That's nothing action, but it's the action part

Stephen Jackson Glass. I think I grabbed it like this. It turns a road like a person never smoked a cigarette before. Right, they get a scene, they got a smoker square in the scene. They hold that mouth all wrong. It's looking like that to them, right right, They're not calm and cool with it. If they gotta do something with the join us. If I'm even drinking, you know, they have to be drunk. They don't really drink though, or they never smoked the joint, someone like dude, I

don't know where are we all? That type of ship, which is a bunch of bullshit. But you want authenticity when you when you were doing a portrayal at bare minimum, just like you want to have an easy part is to have like conversational reality. You can only sound real. Somebody could have written something handed to you and you can make it sound real. So a bare minimum, you want to have conversational reality and authenticity with regards to the story, trying to tell so from both sides, both sides.

When did it hit you? I mean that cast, it was a great cast. When did it kind of hit you that that wasn't going to be a classic movie? Both the rim I mean much later, man, it was. It was after Tupac was um, I mean died tragically and it became it though you know you're not really she just become what it becomes. Y'all know that well. But that's one of them when that ship first drop

everybody at the moment. Soundtrack. First of all, people used to go to the theater and now we sound like crazy, right the right, and the soundtrack used to be like what boosted the film stuff that they don't really do so much anymore. But so that soundtrack was dope ahead of course they had Tupac head. It just had everybody paying song by Tupac, Yes, that was the ship. That's the ship soundtrack is actually a dope, dope dope sounds

like that's a missing part of the form. It's kind of like just like you don't have record covers anymore and nothing like that, none of the art. You just have the song. You don't even have the song. You got the MP three right, you have nothing, Okay, nothing, Let's figure out how to sell nothing a lot they do it well, and they do it well. The basketball scenes in the movie. I was taking off on those marks a lot of them casting because I had hops

back then. I still could. I'm still dunking. I'm doing all that stuff like I'm trying to be Spenter Haywood. So you know I had to you heard of Um, I had to do knees of the toes. You're still dunking right now that I'm still dunking. My man from these over toes got me straight. And it's like this, uh, because I toring my achilles twice, my right leg, so you know, that's really a deal ended for my generation. It was a deal now people come back, but it

used to be this over like it's crazy. You told twice. It's like cash him out, shoot the horse, same lag, same legs, same legs, saying both whoping just doing nothing really too, because but I had warned out so much that you know, you know, you get up with that mad that stiffness, well I would get up with that ship warm and uh you know, and then go playing in the stiffness and the stiffness that's rigidity that's liable to snap at some point. That small little cuts and

stuff that I don't give a what Birdie says. I would bury the both of you, Mick, but you don't know stuff classic just to answer that, you don't do you see that ship? You see that ship? It you got to be Motherfucking's soldiers. Now drive nigga want to act? You spoke on Denzelum. Remember the Titans Class Classic. You received a nomination from the NCP Image Awards Outstanding Supporting Actor. Like you said, you were in awe when you got

in the presence of Denzel. What was that experience? Like, man, it was like it was it had a surreality to it for me, because you know, if I was a fan, I am a fan of many of different actors, so one of them is, of course Denzel. He's more than a fan. I wouldn't say a fan as much as I was just inspired by Denzel to be trying to be great. Not everybody gets that, you know. So I would see him and just be inspired to learn more about the craft, you know. And so when I got

the opportunity to meet him. Um. I first worked with him on The Siege. I was in school at the time he did this film called The Siege. So I had a small little role in the film of the Siege where I was this kind Yeah, Gene Hackman, yeah, and and Denzel and I, Um, spoke to Denzel in the scene. You know, I was like ship but I didn't really meet him. And then he he directed a film I was up for, which was Antoine Fisher Story.

So I was a proud of the process of the audition process, and that came down to me and other people. I don't know all the people went to Derek Luke though, so I got to know him then. And then the third time was remembered the Titans. So, you know, I al would say that the acting gods love me because they showed me like they give me, they give me, they light my path in a way, because I think if I had to just jump into a movie with him, then I probably would have been just kind of like

feeling him. But instead I was like, I crafted my own self. I'm just me. I'm me too much. Now I can't like Alan Iverson, big fan of Jordan's, but I've been looking at these videos he dropped in Joing forty four. I don't think nobody gave Jordan numbers like Allen Iverson, and I'm not exaggerating. I don't think nobody

gave him consistent number. I think Alan Iverson I'll score Michael Jordan's almost in every competition that the Bulls and Philly played, which is only a set number of times, right, even if Mike had forty one and hey, I still had funny. First of all, I love Alan, I'm I'm a huge That's one of my favorite people, of course, And just I just and in his game and stuff. I just I just I'm a big fan. I love him as a person. That was the first time you saw an athlete with a baby at the stand. And

you know, Alan Iverson did that. Some people just do it. Let me just show you know, my my lifestyle. And I was and just like you know, he loved that. He's like, I love people for real. You know the baby there because he loved the baby. It wasn't even so that the camera could have a baby. Now, he was the first to do so much cool ship. He's like, he's like a Spencer Haywood. And since just walls and

he had to be persecuted for ship. They do normally not motherers have tats like written on their grills, I'm pro now on their face. And he had what do he had? I mean he had whatever he had. But anyway, him and Rodman, people who just really stepped outside. They stepped outside of the barriers. But watching the game, I watched a lot of the the older, older stuff just to watch it because when we talk about the goat and all that I've been wanting to see Mike again.

You can forget when I look at Lebron with no reference, even me, when I look at Lebron James and some of these basketball players the way they played now, which is just unbelievable, by the way, uh, without the reference to Michael Jordan's they do look like the best because right in that moment, they're the best you ever seen. Kobe bryant Um and Lebron James are the best you've ever seen in the moment, and so is Michael Jordan.

But when you go look back at Michael Jordan compare them to the rest, then you start having like an evaluated process that like, because I couldn't believe how quick he was when I go look at if you haven't been looking at Michael Jordan, go look at Michael Jordan's footage, whether you like basketball, and go look at Michael Jordan's foot because Michael Jordan's it's so inspiring to see to see him because it's all work. That ship is work. It's dedication at work. And if you you know, you know,

and I like I like those players. Like those players like that because they like my Denzels where it's like, you know, they make me feel like I want to oscar or something like that, when the oscar don't really matter. You know, it matters the moment in the process and the film or TV thing that you're doing that matters. The business that you do. You support your family with this, that matters. But the trophies those are TV shows and stuff like that. But um, Denzel, um, he just is

like that person, not just Denzel. I'm using him almost like you know, Sydney Portier's Denzel was. There's a few ones clumping them under Denzel in a sense put Dezi at the top. But it's a little pyramid of people who um are inspirational because you want to be a pro, you know what I'm saying, Because acting can be very hobby, like the whole process can, because especially nowadays, technology make it so you can make the ship on your phone, so you know, there's no there's no reason that you

can't do it. I'm a crier, so I gotta ask about Yeah, I just want to ask, remember The Titans, did any get did you ever get to any moments in that movie where y'all broke down on set? Because there's a lot of real moments in that movie. Well, I mean there's a scene I cry in one scene

on there, and that's real. Um, you know that's a process or a skill process though, so I making myself crying that moment, but it's real and they don't know the other actors, Like if I'm doing working with y'all right now, and like I had to look like this, You guys don't typically see me with like gray hair and all that. Just say it was a scene everything you would only see me pretty much like this, the make up, this stunt. To me, that would be probably the only way you saw me, even if it was

fro the whole time I'd be working with y'all. Wouldn't be letting you see me with Harris necessarily, you know. So in the process, Uh, I forgot why why why I mentioned that? But in the process, I tend to be that way where I'm engage each with it so much that you're in the moment. Yeah, I'm just in the moment, like I'm not going to be um chopping it up too much because when you watch great movies,

like you get into that moment too. And I really like I was into the movie and I really was believing the bond that you and your hat, you know what, by a car That dude you know what I'm saying, That dude is dope. I'm super I'm telling myself kind of guy, you know what I'm saying. But I'm blessed. I know, y'all, I know people. I'm just bless the nomad just like great people. You know, I know cool people, and I know people who I feel like ideologically, you know,

I vibe with you know what I'm saying. So I'm lucky. I'm just a reclusive person that's just like to be by myself or not likes to. But somehow that's how it goes. Um. But but i mean remember the Titans. As far as trying to being emotional in the scenes and being emotional on the set, we can't because in between action and cut, you know, it's only about forty five seconds you're mastering, you know, this little component of

time that small within the space. So like you know, they say action, there's forty five seconds maybe sixty seconds of before you say cut. You just want that no matter what you're doing on the outside of that minute of time or forty five seconds to a minute of time, you want to be able to be relaxed and committed and prepared memorization or whatever else, characterization, whatever else for that sixty seconds. Some other funers could, you know, go drink, chill,

they said, action, We'll be right into it. Or they can be you know, dancing and ship Like. I'm not gonna do none of that necessarily, but some people just go get on their phones and ship and just okay, right now I'm doing fucking candy crushing ship. They said action, be right into it. You know, I'm not really like that. So for me and for each individual, you do find your you find your rhythm, you know what I'm saying.

Some actors they can drink, they can smoke, they can do whatever, and they still can do a great job. I think it's similar with sports. Yeah, you means some people have to lock in, be quiet, don't talk, headphones, whatever. Some people are rapping, talking, ship, texting. It's but as long as you whatever it works for you, really, I probably would have the headphones on in that situation, you know, I probably have the phones on the corner. Yeah, it

was a it's different. That would be cool though. I would come lap up and say whatever, you get locked in. Everybody get locked in different because that's at sixty seconds on the court too, it was forty forty minute, forty eight minutes, so it's an hour, not even of time to master. You know. If you're putting into that perspective, then you know, then you want to do the best you can in that moment, you know, in that moment.

So I've sort of like programmed myself over the years to just commit to that sixty seconds of time, especially I'm playing Spencer Haywood, do you least from Remember they're real people. Avon from the Wire is a real person. Ace from painting for as a real person is a real person. I met, I met all the people their families, and I met the living people, you know, So it feels like there's something, you know, I don't want to

do a disservice to these people, you know. So I do feel like there's pressure for me to be you know, um highly engaged. So I don't really hobnob around now that much. Even during the process where I've been shooting this lad thing we shot, We've been shooting for months now, several months. I don't feel like I can do much of anything else, saying with Broadway. On Broadway, you have to memorize the entire play, so you know, when you're doing your scenes, you're gonna come in with your day

planned out. Your day is planned out and memorized, and the stuff you have memorized, like I said, it's only gonna be you know, sixty seconds of stuff. You can go do that and you can figure out everything you need for that sixty seconds and stuff. Why not? Why wouldn't you be able to do that? You know what I'm saying. So when you're doing that, you want to highly commit yourself to it. All the processes that you

already did. Your preparation matters so much, you know, So for me, I tend to just keep it to myself. Paiding full another classic, again portraying a real life person. Um what was it like working with that team of people, the people who brought the project together, dame in the crew, and again looking back on it being another culture classic, you got to go bbs is on this um Man It's just like, I'm super blessed to being all this stuff just to hear you saying it back to me.

It's a lot of classic stuff, you know, paiding full. Um uh, you know it's it's it's beautiful to me, paiding full because it matters to people. Man. I just love that the stuff that we're talking about actually master people and um yeah and helps out people like walking my dog. The other day, this cat came up to me. Man, whish I could remember his name because he's gonna see this is probably like wish I would remember his name.

But he came just random cat on the street and he stopped me and he was just like, man, you know you got me off the street with pay them full. And this happened to me before. You know, it wasn't the first time. But that's what I mean, you know, it's I'm just man, I feel blessed to be that type of personality that have an influenced like that. That's really good. Like I'm gonna do a master class in the prisons, man, tell you this, you guys just ahead

of time to do this. It's gonna be filming and all that master class with the prison acting people really acting prison, which is in prison, the lowest recidivism rate is that class of people, people who engage with theater in prison. So I'm just gonna do a master class and that's beautiful because you know, Common did, what did he do? A student? What did commen do? Music studio? Music studio? And I'm gonna make sure we we we It's just gonna be dope. It's gonna be something we do.

It's gonna be episodic, and make sure we make some episodes out of it because I think it could just be something important. It's gonna be fun too. It's gonna be fun because I can't wait to see I can't wait to see some of the stuff. It's gonna be dope. It's gonna be done. What was it like working with Cameron and uh mackay? Oh man, I love him. No, my bros. You know, I'm lucky to have chemistry with them cats, you know, like easy chemistry. Mcca McCay like

my bro for real. I already knew McCay prior to pay them full Um. McCay helped me out in the process something I don't know if he even remembers, but early on in the process. He gave me some uh don Diva magazines and stuff because I didn't really know much about about Ace right, and I'm more easy as his real name. And so when I started learning, I'm like, oh wow, this opportunity, this is like, this is a

great opportunity. It's a real story. It's a true story. Um. Charles Stone, who directed it, had done like a lot of the trip called Quest video, so I knew the approach was going to not just be a simple approach. I knew he was gonna be an imaginative director, you know. And and then when I met a z it really sealed. It sealed the kind of they sealed the cap on it all. And then we started feeling the process of meeting camera Cameraon was in character, so you know, y'all

know who the character was. So Cameraon was a character. So you know, I got stories. You know, I got a lot of gives. Come on, I want to hear some stories because he was on one in that movie. Let me see, can't tell a story. Let me go to my camera story. See if I can tell his Tarra story. Cap Puerto Rican category. What's the point of having soldiers You ain't gonna use him the story that's my dog. I respect that camera story's on this Hell no. But the process was was dope. Charles Stone the way

he is, he's pretty magical director. He's seamless, like you don't feel him there. I'll tell you something that happened on the set with Cameron. There's a scene in a movie where you see we on the block New York. Camera see to do drive up and it's supposed to be drying the streets in terms of drugs. Is driving. So dude say something to camera. Camera goes to the window, still on him. So that's not scripted like that. You

know he actually tagging them. Boy, oh he really he's supposed to just like he's supposed to open the door. I mean, you know, I mean, he ain't supposed to do that. It just says, you know, you know, gets him out of the car. Cameron, his acting was there. So that's what I mean. He was committed. He was he was He was not just being cameraon like cameeron is different than that portrayal. That was a really great portrayal of of of a character who he was supposed

to be out pole. Do you realize I don't know, like like we always talked about you in the middle of it, But do you realize how many movies that are our culture classes that you're part of. I do that in these moments, but I don't. I don't do just I don't really think about it so much. That's a big part of our show we give people you don't I don't know. If you don't know, now you should know. Realize this different soundtracks that we grow up to. Like there's a lot of movies that you in that's

like the soundtrack to our lives. Bro, that's crazy. And you realize when I when I when I hit you the other day for the show and I put it in the chat. Jack was Jack, don't get excited for no one. We've been blessed to have everybody, and Jack he was excited to have you. And it's just like like it's really we really funk with you as a culture.

And to me, like I said, I mean, obviously you get your respect, but I just think you're under ready from the standpoint of what you've done for us as a culture, you know what I mean, and not just us, just for everybody, but you know, in particularly us, it's it's just the honor to be able to you know, me getting a chance to know you. A couple of years ago and we was, you know, we was chopping up the whole tree and three shout out. Yeah. I remember I was in with Tony Jeffries and staying of

Manica trying to shout out Tony. He hit me on the d M. Just some boxing training because I had to learn the training aspect of the box and not the boxer aspect. So Tony Jeffrey shout out, was working with me and Matt for a day over it like yeah here, yeah, yeah, so yeah, so that was that was then we was talking about to the whole before the whole Black Panther thing came to life with Ryan and me, and I said, I was like, what, I got an idea, I got some people, let's do this.

Man and puts the whole plan and it came into fruition like all I was saying, It's like, yeah, I mean you basically like right, verbatim, everything that didn't occur with regards to all of that, including Ryan the story. Yeah, yeah, I mean you were definitely ahead of the head of the pack with's your idea about that. We had something but I mean it ended up working out. Definitely ended up working out. Oh, Avon Boxdal The Wire, Yeah, I know,

I get excited about that. You know. Uh I think, Um, with me, the reason why I fell in love with The Wire and your character and the whole thing is because I grew up in that type of environment. You know what I'm saying that the dope game, the projects, the killing, the robbing, the setups, the backstabbing, the whole nine police all that. So when I was able to see y'all bring this to TV, you know what I'm saying, and constantly make it real life scenarios like it was

big for people and our demographic. You know what I'm saying, How did you bring Avon boxed at it to life? And what was your thoughts? We got that role? When I got that role, um, I think the first two people that they really assigned to be like, who were who were cast with me? An interest? So no one knew interests at the time, and and I didn't either, but the casting director was so happy about we two that I was like, man, I didn't know what was going on. I had done I think remember the Titans

right before that or something like that. So I was in this other state of mind. Sometimes you get involved in characters, you'd be still floating in there, in there, and they vibe you know, before you get back to your own vibe or whatever. But and so that's what took me back to my advice. More like, you know, I'm from the same type of environment. So, um, I didn't know much about Baltimore. I had never really been there. But when you hear Maryland, it don't sound like no

bad place, you know what I'm saying. Baltimore, Maryland done. That sounds nice. I remember thinking, Okay, I'm gonna be there. We don't shoot the wires, probably gonna be the Baltimore special special place. It needs a lot of attention, you know, like Baltimore could use some good attention in real life, in real life, I mean just the city itself. And back then for sure, when I when I was filming there, I mean, it needed like a lot of attention. Um,

it was a neglected city. And so um I commuted a lot, so did Interest for some A lot of the time that we were there, commuted from New York. I think he commuted from New Jersey or something like that. Um. And uh, because when you're there, you know, Baltimore was so you just would feel like you needed to be a part of something more than television. So I needed

to be in character, you know what I'm saying. I didn't need to try to be you know, activistic I am, you know, you know, so I wanted to be um. I was excited about doing a series. I had never done a series. And then no one in the cast was more famous or less famous or anything. So it was cool. We were able to just have like a real brotherliness that we still have, just um and a

lot of like love for each other. I just posted a picture me and it and just putting in a wire gang for life, you know what I'm saying that Michaelang Gang Gang Gang. Yeah you dig and Hassan Johnson and Andre roy Yo. Of course my man Michael Kate would love so much and interesting all of us. You know,

I just love Michael lot. Though I kind of gotta, you know, not go there too much because yeah, Michael is a special person in general, and like I said, you know, when you're closing in person with these person people, it's different than people watching five players on the court. What I was saying, they don't know, you'all talking to locker room. They don't even know you're talking in the locker.

They don't even think about that. When when an athlete walks through the tunnel, ship turns the channel, it's all you know, what's next. Yeah, yeah, they don't even know that. There's the moments of unlacing the shoe, you're sitting next to your man. You do that all the time. And y'all talk about life. And so that's what's good about the Laker series that I'm doing now. It really does go into their lives. It's like it's almost like being a you know, a fly on the wall type of way. So,

and its epic epically shot in film in film. So, but the wire being as trend setting and historical as it was, and that the cash you just named to not be recognized, um during these awards seasons, how tough was that for that for you guys At the time, I don't think we were even concerned about it. We just were everybody was Yeah, we were just like yeah, I mean, it had good feedback, but also, um, none of with from Baltimore, so you know, we all had

to be in Baltimore. You know, we were just in this sort of bubble in the sense we and I think that, at least myself, I didn't really think about the show and the show. I didn't think about, um, the magnitude of something. I just was just thinking about just doing it. I wasn't thinking about what could be. I'm really never I'm never thinking about what could be from something. But what happens. It's cool to feel in the moment without, you know, giving my mind a direction.

So I'm just playing that game with myself for many, for a long time, to just be able to not impregnate my my ideas, to give myself an outcome. So yeah, like but still with I mean with that saying, I respect that approach. I mean again, as we sit back and kind of listen or list what you've been a part of. I know, as athletes, we never really get a chance to really appreciate because it's always what's next, next game, next season, how many seasons we're gonna be

able to play? Similar I mean, you're gonna act to you don't want to act, you know what I mean? So do you it's the same, I would say that's good. Yes, it's it's much like that. You know, you where you are, you're you segregating life, Okay. The athlete is something, the artist is something different than perception. Most of the time, people don't see the totality of who we are very

often at all. So so it's difficult sometimes to be able to see yourself, you know, um and really own yourself because you know, the phone makes us talk in the mirror a lot. You know, we're just talking to the mirror when you really don't talk in the mirror that much, and when you do, you catch yourself talking in the mirror. So I don't know. We live in different times though, where I like old days, you know, pay phones and ship pay phones, pay phones. But it

is what it is. What about your upbringing in Chicago helped you in a few different roles that that that you've kind of mastered over your career. Any character was that was from the street. You can always tell when somebody can't hoop and they're doing a basketball player or they you know, they're really not that tough, or they're

not from the street. They don't even know nobody tough and they're playing a tough guy or being some kind of street or they don't know anything about drugs or they've never been in a dark dark side of the moon. Like I said, they do not all know that that's light. And so for any roles like that, then I think, I'm I've always felt confident or what. It just gives me confidence already because I'm like, well, I'm from there, like what above the rim My brother was like, man,

this is perfect for you. It's like basketball, and like you know, it's urban right street, and so the audition not to get on the way back to it, but the audition had me playing basketball at one point. And then you know actors, they some of them can play now yeah, like total trash. So like anybody who showed up, I'm flying to the literally, the director came up with me. It's like two fingers, you got the roles. Literally he uh,

that's literally happy. He ran on the court because the stuff I did in the movie, I was just doing it right there because that's just how I played. Yeah, but they were slopped, so I'm I'm pulling t Max off the glass literally like backing off the glass because and so he ran on the court. Then I remember going home because I lived in New York at the time. I'm on the eight train, and I just got this role in the movie. You know what I'm saying, like

like like, how is this gonna be? You know? So I'm about to go tell my mom, I got this role in this movie, and you're gonna tell these people, And it's almost like it's just not real until the first check is cut, even in the pros like I went pro. But then it's very real when the first check is cut first in the fifth Yeah, it's professional when the work is there, you know. But I was just telling us. I was like nobody knew that. I was like, man, I just told you I got a movie,

and nobody yeah, but damn, like damn there. And later on that day, that night, I lead a crib and go to this bodega. That so I'm putting perspective for y'all synergy of things, Right, So I lead a crib, I go to bodega, and at this time, I'm living in Midtown, New York. So I'm living up the street from where Pop got shot. Right, I lived up the street from where you got shot the first time. Yeah, I live on forty nine between eight and night, right up the street. So I go to bodega who are

running too Marlon Wayans. He didn't know me. I had no films at all, but he had seen me because he's been to the production office and they had my picture on the wall. So Marlin funny dude, He's I don't know, I'm sure he remembers, maybe not, but he came up to me and say, Yo, your mota in the movie. I was shocked. I was like, Yo, this is real. This is real, like running into Pete time and time again, meeting people along the way who end

up actually accomplishing the goals. Like I knew Omari Hardwick a long time ago, you know, and he came up to me randomly and was like, yeah, I'm gonna I'm

about to do that. And then like two years later he was in the Uh movie with me with me, you know what I'm saying, Like two years after seeing them on the street, just coming to be like you know what, And it happens a lot, and most of the time that people don't really end up you know, you don't end up seeing them two years later, and they don't end up being on the series Power and all that kind of stuff. So it's just synergy around the whole thing that you do, like when you know what.

But it always boggles my mind when I hear athletes talk about other athletes that they know growing up. That seems like the weirdest thing, like Hardened and like Westbrook together, like growing up around each other or being around each other and each other's lives. It's's it seems like so bizarre. But you guys know each other forever already. You're competing against somebody you saw a teenager, yeah before they had anything, right, And it's weird to go from I always tell especially nowadays,

and it used to be so much so. But the NBA is like a lottery ticket, I mean, like a financial lot of reatis that's that's what That's what you say though, it really is a lot of yeah, like yeah, you actually hit the fucking like and some of them be mega balls, right, Cat's be getting the megaball to the hund Ship. The hunter was the weirdest thing. I don't understand how they deal with that as young people, like, because I don't think I could deal with that as

a young person. I couldn't. Yeah, I wasn't even making that much and I couldn't deal with it. I don't know if I would do I don't mean, I just couldn't imagine being with that much money. Sixty million, eighty million, hundred million years old, just try one at the nineteen is ridiculous. I was back to the Wire. As you say, you've played a lot of real life characters. How important was it you for you and the rest of the cast to embody like you said, no one was from Baltimore.

How important with it to body that? The essence and in the grind of Baltimore, I mean, very very important. But the essence of it came from the writing. Because when you when you watch The Wire, you're almost seeing a verbatim. You know, a lot of it is exactly the script. You know, at least for me, it's exactly the script all the time. When you see me and something, it's probably exactly the script. You know. So um, I'm sure, um, you know, other characters do other things. But for the

most part, the writing is the essence of it. It's so well written by David Simon and so well directed by really the crew. Not necessarily the directors rotate on a TV series. It's not typical to have one director for the entire series is rare. I think, true to Detective did that season when they had one director for the entire season the HBO show a true detective, but um,

typically another director, another director. You've got ten episodes, you might have five directors or maybe you have ten directors, uh, depending on the contract that each director has. So on the wire m essence is really it's well done in all those ways, all the technical ways. Is the essences in the script, the words himself. Um. They lived at David Simon was writing in Baltimore. He created part of the creation with the corner, so they knew that stuff

extremely well. They knew the ins and outs of it, um like anybody else. They knew the in they out perfectly new knew something. And so I give it up to them because they they they gave us that material, you know, um, and then they gave us a lot of freedom to because sometimes you do a series, and especially when people know it's really good, a lot of chiefs come out one of take like they just want to be a part of this good thing, you know.

But it never really happened like that in my case. Um. It was always just um family, Like it's just it's a it's a real cool experience, you know, you're able to be yourself when I say family, you should be able to be itself at home, you know. So when I say family, I mean like that where you know, it just could act like ites Wood could be Wood. No,

there's no um energy of celebrity. So he goes what's it like to see a young Michael B. Jordan's and then to see kind of follow his career and see him blossom into the actor yes today Just amazing man, just amazing man. And the person that he is in genuine genuine yeah. More importantly, like you know, no one deserves that more than somebody like him, a personality like his, and Mike is the genuine great person a great guy.

Um watching him like mature, it's just amazing. I mean, you know, he was on the wire, so I think mikel was maybe sixteen maybe sixteen, I think on the wire maybe fifteen something like that. And he's got like laser focus, So you know, if somebody had a superpower his focus, he's able to just like focus. I think as a young person too, especially as a sixteen year old. And when I say that, I mean because he could he could say and he's humble enough to be like

all right, like you like a big bro. You interest you all my big bros. That's it. That's two big, cool big bros to have because interests his own self too. And I'm my own self. I'm not gonna be act like nobody else. It muld be me, and that's it.

That's nothing. There's nothing else to be. So watching him become the sexiest man, watching him be you know, suited up, watching them be have such incredible I mean, I think the largest success you can kind of have in in in the world, at least in acting and film, in film and television. It's just awesome. You know, it's just awesome. If I didn't know him at all, I'd be like, damn stud got a lot going on. But knowing him and being able to see it all, it's just special.

And then if you know him, you guys, I'm sure y'all met him. If not, he's down the earth, regular guy, just a regular guy with all that stuff to his in his treasure chest. You know, I would never know, you wouldn't really know, genuinely humble, well raised individual. Mm hmm BMF Pat. It's another good show, uh, you know. Executive produced by fifty Um Talk to us a little bit about what drew you to that role, and just you know what you knew about BMF going into the situation.

I knew about BMF going to to the situation just over the years because it's notorious and we all. Yeah, so I didn't know in depth. I knew the names, I knew the activities. I didn't know a lot of the stories. I didn't know about Pat. You know, I didn't know a Pat character. Um, I'm from Chicago near Detroit. And then it's kind of a built in rivalry we have, so you know, we won't be checking for their gangsters like that. We've got enough gangs in Chicago of our own,

you know. So I never was um drawing to go like in depth and learn more about being f F F until I got this situation. Well, well, maybe want to do it? My brothers in it number one. Just the first time you guys got to work together on on the project. It's not the first time we worked together. It's the first time like this where we're opposing each other's We actually played brothers before on a TV series called Justified. Um yeah, Justified, I think that's what's called.

But um, so, working with my brother working with Fifty, who I'm friends with um At the time, I I was looking to have some work to do with fifty because people talk to me a lot. How come you ain't do you know, nothing with fifty in power and all they want to see me just be gangster, gangster gangsting. Well it's just like, I just don't want to do that so much, you know. But this opportunity I thought was a good opportunity to do something different with a

gangster personality. You know, after a while, you know, you just be doing the same stuff, you know, And I'm not interested in I mean, it's true story, so you can it's going to be a different person, you know, But if it's a fictional gangster story, I'm not so interested in it necessarily. You know. I got like an email that just got gangster scripts in it. So don't want to let you know what I'm saying exactly, so you know, but but but but but no, But I

love I mean, I love that world. I would rather still do that than to be playing like the good guys sort of speak, because it's definitely more fun to portray the bad guy. Definitely, it's just more fun, more fun to be the bad guy in real life is more fun to portray the bad guy in real life

fifty getting involved. I knew that, you know, it would um, it would be cool to be around fifty fifties energies, a real building energy, you know, Um, at least with me, you know of a good friendship with him, and and Tasha Smith who who who is a producer and directed at all. So she actually I've known her from a long time too, So I knew all the people involved. And that's when I spoke to him. Russell Hornsby, who's his places father on the show. I just knew all

the people. So it was a no brainer in the sense, you know. Um, yeah, I like it. It's it's it's what the third the third episode just dropped. Um, you mentioned something in port important and I wanted to touch on it. And you've been type cast on me into the bad way, but you just played a lot of streets legend gangster roles. Do you ever get tired of it? Or is it hard for you to step out of that role and be seen in a different light earlier

on in your career? Now you're obviously you're proven, but was it was it hard to get out of that lane at all. Um, I don't know, you know, I like I, Um, I'm I'm so in my own bubble that I just never really engaged with the idea of me so much. So I'm just now engaging with the idea of how I'm perceived, you know. So I don't really watch the stuff I'm in. I don't really interesting listen to. So, you know, my bubble is like not a bubble. It was more like a force field, you know,

because I like anonymity. Here's the thing, you're famous, I'm famous, or we're known out here visibly, known by our face alone. And that's just no anonymity. There's a negative to it to me. Some people like it because they want to be on the red carpets and ship like that, but I don't, you know, I don't want to be on it, you know. Um. So it just made me a lot more reclusive than I probably would have been if I wasn't a famous or recognizable face. I don't even like

saying it. I don't like saying it, you know. I'm self conscious about that, you know. And when Mike, when Mike died, I realized something. I'm here now and I'm able to be typically, I don't even know if I could even do this stuff. I'm more nervous doing this than I am my job, you know, because I um, I'm just talking about me, and I don't want to

talk about me. I just don't. I don't. But Mike, maybe I realized that Mike live with like a lot of a lot of uplifted energy and spirit that uplifted like he could go to like Mike Kay Williams I'm talking about, he could go to like a park in Brooklyn, random Park. They got the music plan and just sort of dance with everybody, And they made me realize that I'm kind of like an ostrich and essential where you know, you stick your hand in the ground. You don't realize

your body is out anyway. Bro, I can't. You can't, like you can't be Your anonymity is something that has gone for real. It's like a death. So I don't know. I um, it just makes me a lot more reclusive and I'm not the hot. I just like the way it feels to be not famous, that's all. But you can't. You can't undo, you can't und, you can't become. You know,

you can't undo it, especially me. I don't even I'm tatted on people, and it's remarkable how um much stuff is of me, you know, to me, people send me me tatted on them, like tons of it. You know, it's not me, it's the character though, I understand, but still me that on that face, let it face. So you know that gets to me. So I just ignore it. So I'm better off because of it makes me feel just like I felt when I was eighteen and unfamous until somebody had the red light of saying something to

me or I'm doing an interview. I really I don't really think about it, you know, I try not to at this point in your career. Anyone else you still want to work with it you haven't worked with yet? Uh, I mean it's a lot of people, you know. I Um, I can't think of anyone off the top, you know that I would definitely just I mean, I always want to work with a lot of different talent. I'm not work with like somebody like Sean Penn is just amazing. Uh.

I'm a Lawrence Fishburn. I work with Lawrence Fishburn in one capacity, but I would like to work with him what's another in another way? Lawrence Take he's a friend of mine. I mean, these people are my friends, you know, lawrenz is and so I would like to work with Lawns and Mackay again. See what we did come up with again? Um. I like to work with Charles Stone again, see where we come up with something different to show range? You know, Um, I can't think of any too many

more individuals. I mean Jeffrey Wright, don Cheatle. Yeah. I love all those guys. I love them, you know what I'm saying. They they show you the spirit of like um, they keep the high energy up and make you want to be good and great at what you do. So I like I like them a lot. We want to work with those cats. Do you think it's possible to do a reboot of Above the Rim, a West Coast version of that? Or is that the idea you are you topping off on you popping off bang bang bang

something going on? Do you think this? Uh? Yeah, man, it's all about how you do it. How it's done. It's done, Yeah, how it's done definitely, because imagine, like you get me so easy to do, Like Kendrick is dope as Kendrick was dope or power. Actually he was Kendrick is a dope being Yeah, dope. If you can get Kindrick do something, do it be birtie Yeah, and then yeah I got Kendrick doing that, that would be dope and just crafted up, make it up dope. That

sounds pretty cool. You should work on that. So what's it like a normal you know, we have our routines as and you kind of test us a little bit as athletes for the game day is like for us. You know, for me, I would go to shoot around, I come home, smuggle joint, taking that shower, go to a game. What's up? What's a work day for you? Days to be so long, you know, like um shooting

schedules to be you know, minimum of twelve hours. So when covid um it's extended to more like thirteen and a half hours because you have to get test every day and you have to wait for an hour of test. So like say if you've got a five o'clock call, now you've got like a three five am, maybe like four and an hour or so. So it ain't no life, you know, it's not like a life. You know, like it's just that you just do that. You just go home.

I'll be wired. I pretty much juiced up on four hours, so I try to get in a light life and two hours or whatever. Yeah, but that's it don't work so well. Yeah, I go watch you motherfucker's and watch a few different things and try to catch up in life and what it's like. Yeah, so so so I watched mostly sports document reason stuff, so I go find out what's going on Eastpans and sho didn't go to sleep. Man, that's really it. What was your favorite role as far

m That's hard. I don't know. I don't no, Man, that's a hard one too. It is hard to answer. I don't think I had a favorite one, but I think probably like that Jimmy Hendricks thing was dope because it's just so off kilter. Even when I hear myself said, it's like, damn, I can't believe I did that right. Yeah, and then I played guitar left handed. I learned a lot from Jimmy Hendricks. So I met his father, met his his uh sister, his brother um, I mean not

SI to his niece, his brother UM. Just to have anything to do with that part is really the most interesting thing I think about me because it makes sense for you to see me in above the rim, but it doesn't really make sense for you to see me as Jimmy Hill. And then that process was dope. Like

I said, I learned the guitar. Um, I mad secluded myself and I got to rent it this little house and lost feelers and just at the bottom of this damn hill, I just was in there my fucking loan, just yeah, zoning out, trying to figure out Jimmy his without the drugs. Is so much drug folklore about him, and then come learn the truth. He wasn't really know drug head like that, but at that area he was a typical person, that's all. But being a rock and

roll figure, then that was amplified, you know. Media wise, it was sort of blowing out. All the rocksters were blown out to be sort of like drug heads. And when I learned he wasn't just no incredible drug head like they spread that information, m false information. Um. I really got into him a lot, you know. Um, so he really changed my life. I'm already a musical person, so he made me even more musical. Um yeah, and

I'm lyrical. He makes me lyrical with a delivery and a role, So I like, I'll see a role in now at this level, I'll be trying to be lyrical, you know, like rather than just to say the lines, you can say the lines and meet it and you still can sound good. But intonation going up and down range, voice tone, just architecture of a role, taking these notes, driving jam right, and I think it's I think it's

stages of that. Like I don't think that's necessary. Um, I'm having just fun doing it, but that's not necessary. You know, you can just catch the feeling of the lines and deliver the line. It'll have the lyric in it because you know you could feel the lines, but you also have a great control if you're able to do that within the line though precisely so you want to be able to do that, like if there was a story about y'all that two cats had to go do move and act this out right, be y'all on

the set and just be y'all. Right now, it's a way to be you. It sounds like you in a way to sound like you, that's very um. You don't have to wing it. In other words, you know, I can sound like you. You can study us. I can study you, and I can talk like you because you know you when when you try to invitate you, I don't want to do it. I can invitate you bother I would be off. But take a person like Godfree, who I grew up with god Godfrey from Chicago to

I've known Godfrey super talent to childhood. Right, so um uh, it's kind of what he's doing. You know, he's able to catch the speed that you talk. You talk fast? Do you know? You talk fast? Man? You do, and you still slow slow, try to do so much and trying to slow down. It just don't work. Oh this is the slow. I gotta smoke more. He's like, but you talk and it's not just fast. You have um

distinct patterns to the way you speak. So when you talk, you might say like, so when you was doing this thing, but I can hear like put the word behind that. After a while I'll be talking like you. But so you can um insane with you, you know you just first I would just see what rhythmically you sounded like, because you have a cadence that you know, it's a drum that you go to both of y'all, So find that and then I know how y'all are as individuals.

So I can understand beyond the technical part, so I can lay it back now, to lay it back and not just be a generic version of mad or generic version of you or caricature of you. I could probably be a lot more genuine to you and the process and feel good about it. You know what I'm saying. So which character you know? Obviously? Picking you? You said, Jimmy, But picking one is hard. What character you still recognize the most part? Would you say, Uh, that's probably um

Ace's it probably Ace? Or if it's not Aces, then a Von. But I would think it would probably be Ace only because of the tattoos and carpets and furniture and t shirts and there's so much stuff Jim shoes and there's so much stuff on that to be surprised. It has a whole universe that the wire has. But it's different. It's just different current NBA. What teams are you watching? Players you checking out while I'm watching I'm watching everything now, So I'm watching all the early stuff

that I can. You know, man, I'm a mellow fan East Coast mellow, young mellow, young mellow. He's pretty cold blooded to me. I like, I'm He's like, you must see I think John maranis must see in terms of young fellas. Um, it's a lot of critical stuff going on in NBA. I mean critical to meaning stuff you can criticize and talk about. Not that it's urgent because

it's basketball. How urgent could it be? But it is critical in terms of Brooklyn and nets So I wanted to see that team and what they mature to be. It looks like they won't have Kyrie, so it's gonna be a different thing going on over there for the most part, at least for now. Um, the Lakers lost every I think preseason games, so that don't feel good. You know. I know that they're they're all veterans and all you guys probably yeah, we don't give it. They're

gonna be amazing. But from a fans standpoint, you're like, man, you know, every game though, every game because Kobe, Shack, Karme Alon and Gary Payton is a super duper team too older, is that gonna happen? So my head is like, is that gonna happen? I don't think Lebron will let that happen because I just think that I don't know, I don't know. I'm curious about the team now because history repeace itself too. If you believe that, then here

we go again. As far as shock, Karme, Alon, Gary Payton and the great, this ain't this ain't this is Kobe Bryant. This is put six to you on you, Kobe. And they didn't have no success so and we know it when the talent that made the success not happened because Karl Malone. He who can stop Karl Malone? I'm not even talking about Kobe bron who could stop Karl Malone like he was a monster? Great defense. Look at that team defensively. I don't know what's gonna happen with

the Lakers. I am rooting. I am rooting for them. You know, I'm living out here. I'm rooting for them. I'm a Bulls fan because I'm from Chicago. That's what my heart is. I love the way the Bulls look. Zoe looks so good and and he played like it's bro like he I think Zoe like he got all this, He got everything that both his brothers have. He's the older, he got everything they have. But he's utility. He uses

I think his head differently. If he click over a little mellow, a little zone more free doing it now, playing like his little bree who got a license from Jordan to do whatever. Stop it already, bro stopping mellow is amazing. Yeah, and the young I guess the young boy didn't make that. I mean the middle kid didn't make that with his name. Yeah, but he called too though, like he's cold. All these guys are the best people in the world. Um, you know what he's saying, Man,

are you growing up? And everybody make it? Everybody can't go gee. Everybody can't go gee. I don't think you gonna make it. You don't think I don't gonna make it. Let's not put that. He needed gy out there, bro keep it low, okay, didn't all right up over here? It's okay. He got a chance one more, one more good run if you don't happen after he was getting like he got sixteen in the precede. I think you

get to a certain point. I think he should make one more hard pushing and then after that because he can make a lot of money over Okay, well yeah, but I can see that when I feel but they're still going in the exhaust all options here. First to me, I think he has one more good run. I think he was close to actually making you know, at least making the roster, but obviously he didn't. But yeah, I've seen a lot of people average twenty in summer League. Don't get on the NBA corp why though, see the

politics don't be there. Numbers is called the numbers game. I got caught up in the numbers game before pretty what do you mean by that numbers? Put it like this, I got signed with the Spurs. I deserve to be playing, right, but you have Steve Smith, Steve Kerr. All these veterans are saying the number it's a numbers game, like many play already deserved. But where do you fit in? Right? You sit on the angel list the whole year and

wate your turn and how much money do there? And then once you said just you say you sit on the bench the whole year. You might not get an opportunity next year, you know what I'm saying. So a lot of people get caught up in the numbers game. A lot of guys that belong in the NBA that could be nice and NBA chance, you never got that tunity. That's just a lot of brothers that just like a lot of brothers, I know in the pan that could

have played in the league. I know at least three guys from my neighborhood that went to jail that could have played the league, at least three. It's it's hard to get into the NBA or into professional period things in life, Like, I don't know what what profession is it easy to get into that's legal? I don't know. It's not life changing, yeah, not life changing and not where you can amass any kind of wealth, right. I

think you made a great point earlier though. But because it's a professional and something, whether it be acting, rapping, singing, sports, we make it that look easy, but we make it look doable so everyone thinks they can step in and being after all, I can play with them and realize you get on the court and you can't dribble. You know, all they see is the glitz, and I mean when

they see it, they see just what they see something finished. Yeah, yeah, they always see is the you know, the shiny ship. And that's what people want to show for the most party show. You know, listen to the the NBA literally the fashion show before the god damn game. Excuse my French. It's a fashion show and it's great for the players because now that branding is amazing in the NBA. If I could choose to be any kind of athlete, of

course it would be NBA. But I think if football players be feeling that way, like most of them feel that way, because look how it's set up, the NBA is good to the athlete as far as that goes. I mean, it's all it's a limit to good sports ownership thing football, baseball, basketball, But the NBA is pretty damn awesome in terms of the ability to brand out even a look. When the bubble happened, lesser known players emerged, that stop because the big boys, the big boys already,

that's how dope it was. Come on, man, and then and then the guy twelfth on the bench got an m Listen, man, where that's right? It's more. They got more than Dr j mm hmmm, the last player on the bench, Come on to dr j Crazy players we never heard of made more than the greats, some of the greats even um. I remember when I heard they said,

uh what they said they said? I remember it was announced that Magic Johnson was getting a million dollars twenty years, twenty year, twenty million dollar dayal or something like that. Getting a million a year old everybody. It was like five years later Shot got a hundred and twenty MS. Then it was like whoa, that was the game him and Kevin Garnett. That's when it became so much about y'all's money, because before they don't give me, who care

and nobody would care about y'all. Now there's care about it. That's different than interests. They care about your money. Not fair really, but um, that's something y'all have to deal with because it's a lot of money and this is a capitalist country and so you guys are small business. Business is donna make a million dollars a year? Your favorite business didn't make a million dollars, you know, just just like you touched on your side. You know how

we make it normal. You know. On another note, like with trauma and in our neighborhoods, you know we deal with so much. We make that look normal too. That's true, you know what I'm saying. That's why that's why people don't make a big deal. I was like, y'all've been dealing with it so long, and y'all don't make it look like a big deal. Why y'all complain so much. No, because we deal with it so much as we see it every day. It's normal the trauma that we go

through every day. You know what I'm saying, that's the same thing. It isn't We have to normalize it to make to bear it like to bear exactly, be arrested by the traumatic thing. That's when you know, we see the people arrested by trauma. They show trauma, they show damage. Most people who can cope, I just don't want to show damage, so they can at least manage to not be looking damaged in around people. So we deal with trauma, but we haven't as a black culture goes. There's a

lot of work to be done in it's complicated. So we don't have um an answer or any answers. So so it's difficult. You know, the thing is to make money. One thing is to make money. So and it's easier said that done when it's millionaires sitting on microphones and people watching us, you know, you know, and that's all they could because they count the money now, count the money now where even with me, they count you'all's money.

So and they care. It's part of their fantasy to to at least be vicarious through the athletes, you know. So because you can't just become a basketball player. You can become an actor and you know you might not end up would or might not end up interest or Denzel Washington or whoever, but you can sort of get in there and do extra work and find and get a couple of speaking roles and not you. I mean when I say you, I'm talking in general. But you

can't just become a basketball player. A lot of things got to go on your favor. Yeah, you need a lot of things, Yeah, a lot, especially nowadays, Like I don't know how they make it without being giants. So I don't understand how you even make it without being a giant. Little boys gone to you can have a big following. Now, that's true. See what I'm saying these days. That's some other stuff though. That's having a viral presence and having like these kids are big enough. That's not

the same prime you do. You see someone that reminds you of your game in the league, in the league, I want to hear this. I show this because you throw you showed play like MJ. Your whole game. You're dogs. I modeled off the MJ because yeah, yeah, yeah, that's I mean, I can't say prime. I'm trying to think of something that you know, I was watching all the different I just watching the movie. I was watching the game, and that's Rutgers. Those are real realms, those real rims.

There real rims. But um on the West side, let's see who we had. I'm gonna get back to that. I remember at the park one time I played against another pro. He end up a pro, but it was Nick Anderson and the young Nick Anderson, Like I thought, I was, you know, yeah, but I still had the ego. But the young people don't really realize until everybody thinks that they can go and play y'all and play to you guys. And it's another story, man, if you have an ego, ego crushing to see somebody so much better

than you. Even though at that point I wasn't. I was like, I just I feel like I could get there, you know what I mean as a basketball player. But um, in the league now, I mean you say now right now or in general period. I mean I'm modeled myself out to Michael Jordan just in terms of just in a lot of ways, you know, just um, I want to be just the best. So that's like Mike. So I just want to be the best. So so I'm like Michael Jordan's in basketball since um yeah, I play

like Mike. I just want to be like Mike because we grew up Chicago. You've seen all the home games. I saw the maturation of Michael Jordan. Yeah w g and you've seeing all the You've seen I'm seeing all the local all all the games, so you know, um man, So I just love Ai because what I love about Alan Abbinson is everything I do. I love everything about Alans. You guys already got a chance to spend some time together. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I tell you. Let me tell you.

I don't have a story. One day, I'm in New York. There's a quick story, quick with quickly, Okay, I'm in New York, right, I forgot what I'm working and working on something. But I'm telling I'm in New York City too, something in Manhat proper Manhattan. I'm in a hotel. One of my homies. We're about to get on the block, right, so we did. We're gonna We're walking down the street and you know, it's New York. So we're walking you know what I'm saying. So I see this little area.

They got this caution tape up. They got the men on one side of the street. It's kind of thugged out too. They get the men on one side of the street and the women on the other side. Though something had happened, right, This is a while ago to AI was in the league. This is not this is AI being in the least. It's a long time ago. Um. So I see I see the little security dude inside the point, inside the club, and it's it's it's caution tape all in the club and ship we're walking by.

I see the fly. I picked it up. It's supposed to be an Allen Iverson party, right, So I'm like it was probably, but is it really? Or they're throwing them other name on some ship, pulling in the crowd, and you know what I'm saying, And get the money now. They cleared the club out. The fight happened. They cleared the club out. No, Allen Ibinson, who cares? We got all these people. So I see the security dude. I'm trying to keep game. I go ask him what's the game? Though? Bro?

He knows who I am, you know, what I'm says. He recognized his So what's the game? Does this is this fake ship? Because you know I'm gonna keep it pushing. But is this fake? It's policing the policing there and everything, right, So he said no, this was really Alan Iverson man, this and that. So okay, cool, I leave me in the homie league. We did. We're walking down the street. When we get to the corner, I forget we're like

on twenty three and something. We get to the corner, stretched white jag, right, it's a I. He dipped the window because I had met him before. Um, I want a reboked thing that I did. Um I did this rebok campaign with photo shoots and stuff. So I met him briefly before, so you know AI dipped the window down Boom boom wood. This isn't that yo. I jumped in the whip with him. So now we're chilling. We're driving when we kicked back, so I tell them as soon as I get in there, I was like, yo, man,

caution taping that mother, that's it dead over there. Like we drove by, We've seen the crowd all like it was, and we gets kept it pushing, right, So we end up driving around city of New York for like a while. I just talking, talking, talking, talking talk, chopping it up right, you know, and so and just having a good time and put you like that, having a good time. So he take me back to the crea. I go back

to the hotel. Now it's probably like two in the morning, you know, it might be two thirty three in the morning. I go in the crib, I mean in the in the in the town boom. I watched a little tier false slip. I wake up. He on TV now right, they're playing Jason Kidd. He playing the nets. I think yeah, I think it was yeah, yeah, because he was only in New York chilling, not playing the knicks, but playing the nets. So he over the he over the water now playing the nets. So it's the Ai with the

dark circles and the hair ain't done right. So I know that AI now when you see and the hair ain't done right. He might have had a good time. You might have had a good time to night before. Right, So we had a good time. But he put forty three and twelve. He had forty three and twelve, he had That's my story. He had forty three and twelve. If don't go out and have a good time, he might not play good. That's got his routine has to be the same. He just different, bro, It's super different

but different. I ran into Ai when I was in Philly to shooting Creed um one I think, so yeah, I ran into him at the hotel. He liked to hit the casino sometime and all that type of ship. I ain't do it, but yeah, I can't do it, alright, quick hitters. First thing to come to mind. Top five movies in your opinion all time? Top five movies off your top five? Well, I say, well, one of them is Hoop Dreams. Even though it's a documentary. I would

put Hoop Dreams on there. That's my community. If you've seen Hoop Dreams, then I went to that high school at the Ages neighborhood. That's same thing. But Hoop Dreams are just amazing. There's nothing like it. So I really love that film. Um. I like a lot of older stuff. So that The Sting and which is a Robert Redford and Paul Newman film. It's like a heist sort of movie. It's called The Sting. It's a classic. UM. Paper Moon,

which is another classic film. Um, and then I like I like some of I like some of the thrillers that are out now, Like the Korean thrillers are dope. There's one called The Whaling. It's one of my favorite films already. And uh, I'm pretty hard on the films man, I don't even like watching most of them. I get discouraged looking at a lot of stuff and make me feel like I'm wasting my time. So I don't have a long list of favorites in in acting and stuff

like that. But favorite line you ever said in the movie that you can remember acting points of paper line, I would bury the both of you. Motherfucker's take that. I take it. I take it. I take it, I take it. I would have to think back. I take that. I'm glad you could save me. I think that. Yeah, I bet both of you. Mother, that's real, quick, quick, sot. I just want to ask, because I think you're around the same time at least Benji Wilson a little bit

older than you, a little bit older than me. Yeah, do you remember him everything? Um? In fact, the document the thirty thirty is me. I narrated his thirty on him. Coody Coody and Cheek, who directed it, also directed the upcoming Kanye Um doc for Netflix, which is phenomenal and it's kind of like Hoop Dreams in the sense that this they have because Coody grew up with Kanye, so he's known him since prior to him even being signed, and so it chronicles all the way from not signed

to like a billionaire in real time. So it's not just a bunch of interview. It's gonna be dupe. Shout out, Coody, chicken. But what was question? Right now, I forgot you narrated that. But Wilson and what kind of like that struck the city like it was a thunder clap on the city, like an earthquake on the city when he died, You know, um because he was all around good kids. I know the person who actually killed him, now okay, he's gotten out. I know him because of the documentary and I G

and things like that, and decent person. You know. Big mistake, very big mistake. He was carrying a gun. He was young, and you know back then, back then, you know, you could bump into a dude and catch one, you know what I'm saying, Or you can get killed over some kicks or starter jacket or that's just ever in time. You know, you might have on a nice something nice person actually kill you for for something nice, even a garment.

So that's what the streets was like in Chicago. I think the guy who ended up shooting and killing him got bullied, and I think that's what the story was telling us. So he end up he was carrying a gun sometimes it was a twenty two when he clapped, when he clapped, ben Um, they got into it outside of a store, literally bumped into him and being you know, like man, whatever this and that Bob and dude little man just let it rip. But that's not how he died.

He died because he was left on the gurney in the hospital. So what happened is trauma units weren't existing at the time. So the bigger cause, the bigger thing taken away from his death is the advent of trauma units in Chicago. There weren't any. He died because he was missed, he was neglected. He didn't die from the gunshop. He bled to death from the neglect of care. They took him to a local clinic like thing, and he bled to death or died as a consequence of the

of negligence. So so it's not what people think. Okay, so you know, um, but he was. He was amazing And it's it's funny man. You got those stories too, you know, it's the gift and the cursed story of its greatest like a lot of those types of stories. Who what was the one Reggie who was Boston and he died coble Reggie Lewis A uh, that's in Reginald Lewis. But there's more than a part thing. But lambias was then biased than biased than biased. Yeah, that's like Hank Gathers.

You know, there's always a nominated person in that way, in that way, did you guys ever hear? Probably not. But George Robinson was a guys No. Five star of course on the five star so early on in five star. Now he has a plaque that's dedicated to him, and think it still may exist, the George Robinson Award. So he was a kid who went to school with me and in grade school he died, Um, I mean not in grade school. He died in as a high schooler

who would have been bound for the pros. He basically died, Um, of pneumonia. He just died of pneumonia. He died of health condition related to UM like I saw him the day before he died. You know, he died of circumstances. But you know that stuff be it, be it be in the system for athletes, like somebody. You know, not everybody's gonna come back from the trip. You know what I'm saying. Um, we are the lucky ones or the blessed ones for sure. Absolutely. Uh five dinner guests that

are alive. M M damn these tough questions, I would say, Um, dinner, guess I'm bad at this type of stuff, Matt five. Then I guess man. Uh, I'm gonna say jay Z because I want to chop it up with jay Z. Even though I probably could talk to jay Z anyway, but I would love to just chop it up with him, see how pick his brain on peculiar things that I have questions for. Um, I'm like, it's gonna sound like hip hop less really because it's like I would like to chop it up with like big punt. I'm a

big punk fan. I mean, I definitely want the historical figures. Uh, and so many come to mind. That's difficult to narrow down. Maybe the real actual Jimmy hendrickx. Um, that's three good. I'm an L L coo J fan, like I'm inspired by L. L coo J as a young person, So yeah, I love L coo J. In terms of this is a young l L was very inspirational, UM and l L in general. But when I was young and and watching Young l L, it was very inspirational. Tossa. But I guess I'll say, um, Bob Marley, but I was

talking up Richard pryor Bart. I want to sit down with these cats and just talking. But yeah, would you ever want to expand your career outside of acting? It's not directing, definitely, I'm already doing that. Yeah, Um produce some things you may have seen actually next day air one of them. But um, definitely directing. Talk to fifty about directing some of his some of the episodices of power,

so that may happen. Um, and even outside of that, just to do other things in general, just to put a magnifying lens on Like I was telling you all about going and doing them. I mean, I'm gonna I'm gonna make that a series to watch at least a six part thing in terms of going to the prisons engaging with the inmate theater. Well, again, the lowest recidivism rates among the people who involve themselves with theater in prison,

which is amazing if you really think about it. So, yeah, I'm I'm going with San quentin Um likely to start there and yeah, shoot shoot that out as like a little episodic, don't Yeah, uh you plus four in the black top? Anybody? Oh? Man four? All right? Jeez man, who do I like to play with? That's really what that's about. You know, I woulda say me, I'm just gonna be the shooting guard, but I can miss everything because I'm gonna make the team straight, so I can

miss everything. But we got Jason Kidd because I just want to see how he plays. Jason Kidd. I was a person with Jason Kid. I think would be a different experience play on the court with Jason Kidd. I know I can get some open layups because he'd be great. I know, I know, manne a couple of buckets, but I'm gonna be He's want to be a two with me and I can miss though, I can miss, So it's gonna be an our little group, but as a motley crew because I kind of like Rashi Whilace on

my squad. Why not, you know what I'm saying, I might need somebod own events because he might. He gonna get it, He's gonna get checked out. But I like Raschi Wallace to be on my squad. He could hit the outside jumper, tough enough, tough on the inside. I can't get anybody on this on my team. Man, I made myself too. I'm gonna have to take myself off this team and coach, firing myself off this month. You can coach coaching. I gotta hoop, gotta gotta this. You

plus four. I should probably made Mike the two and I could have been the one because I gotta do is get a rock up. I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna change it. I don't change it. I'm gonna change it. So I'll be the one. I'll be the one. I be the one. I might get the two. I still got Rashid. I can't do Jason kids like that. I'm gonna go back. I got Mike, Mike and just be Mike. So it's me, Mike, Jason, Rashid and shock. Oh, that's dope, it'd be fun. I know I'm get some buckets. Everybody.

We actually win some games without me participate. All I do is say my energy for defense. We're already gonna know what's gonna happen if y'all don't in the bag. Oh yeah, But playing with somebody like Jason Kidd or Rondo or like that type of golf three CP three, I know I'm gonna get a bucket running line though. I know I can listen to. I know they run those like he's those dudes tough man. Yeah, Mayah, they're

basketball Jesus extreme. Yeah. This last question, I just remember before I ask you this question, you have to help me with your answer. Okay, you have to help us with your Who do you want to see on All the Smoke? Snap? Who do you want to see on the show? Help you with? Mike been on here my gaps? M h that's a good yeah, Mike apps see what. We appreciate you, man, appreciate you. All over West with Harris is going to start working on that here. Yep,

that's a rat man. All the Smoke with Harris, Thank you, James, Good Little Room can Showtime Basketball YouTube and the I Heart platform Black Effects see y'all latter. This is All a Smoke, A production of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime