The D.O.C.: Hip-Hop’s Biggest ‘What If’ | ALL THE SMOKE

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Welcome back to All the Smoke. We out here in Dallas for the Tyson Jake Paul fight. Compliments of Netflix. That was good next to us, bro, Yes, it does. They've been treating us with nothing but love too. We appreciate you, guys man. Today we got a legend man. Jack made a call and struck Gold A pioneer in this music space. Me being the West Coast kid, very instrumental in my upbringing. Welcome to the show, d OC. Oh yeahs yeah, man, we appreciate your time.

Jack.

When did you first hear of d OC? You're out this way, yeah, coach.

Being in the streets, I think I first heard the album through DJ Screw being in that area.

He screwed pe.

Huh r ip to the legend.

A lot of our music would slowed down down there, and a lot of the news that we learned from East Coast to West we heard through DJ Screw because a lot of musers wouldn't played on our radio.

So that's how we got hip to DC.

And then then him being from Texas and having a relationship with him and bun Bee I got, you know, just being in that circle. That's how we just you know, grew up listening to him and knew he was a legend coming from Texas.

Outside of that, I didn't look at you your fit. It's nice, bro, what is that?

So? Said son? Mom? There George? Yeah, appreciated, Yeah, man, I see clean.

Yeah, that boyd clean so off camera.

You told us you have some stuff cooking, so we can't expect fingers crossed. You ain't got to tell us the whole thing, but some music coming from you.

Uh so, b, I really don't want to you know what, anything.

Is possible, Okay, Yeah, just just wee there's a chance.

Yeah, Bro, I'm in a full circle moment in my experience. Uh well, I think I'm in the gay opportunity to do it, to do a lot of stuff that that might have passed me by the first time around, some G O D things, not DC thing. So he feel like I'm ready, and shit, I feel like I'm ready, Toll.

Yeah, explain to us what you were talking about earlier about kind of how things are starting to revert back to you after a certain amount of time. You're starting to get you know, the credit for I was.

Talking about the reversion rule in most contracts that was done back in those days. Thirty five years after the music is released, it reverts back to the original publisher. So that means all those things that I wrote for those boys and for myself that might have been moved out the way in a way, I'm gonna find that way back starting.

This year, So what does that mean?

Though?

You got to think thirty five years You've seen a lot of people come and go in that time, and the fact that you're still here. We're obviously gonna get into your journey. But the fact that you're sitting here thirty five years later, finally going to really be able to read the benefits of all your hard work, what does that mean to you?

I was telling you about my boys legend and Diggie is myself old eighty nine and really, bro it's about them, you know, like, and not just my boys, all those young boys out there, Like, I got a lot to give. I had a hell of a testimony, and it says that you can have anything you want in this world, but be careful what you asked for because you might get this shit and if you're not prepared for it, then then it'll destroy you.

Being for Texas and being a lezard from Texas, explain to me how you ended up in the West Coast.

There was a DJ down there named Doctor Rock in the in the mid eighties. He came from la He was a part of the Wrecking Crew World Class Working Crew DJ S. In fact, Dra took his place when he when he moved here, and so uh when he got on the air down here, he broke a lot of their records down here.

Ah okay.

So to pay him back for doing that, dre produced four songs for you in his little group called the Felis First Crew, which how I was in. And so I made out what felis all the time. I mean, but I shit, I didn't know nothing, abod no damn Felix man. I was from the West Dollas Project. I was broke as a joke. But the rock that was his thing, you know. But when Drake came down and he heard me busting, he was like, man, you just shit. If you was in California, I guarantee.

You we'd be rich.

At first, I turned him down, but about six months later I dropped out of our school and my mother said, you're going to the Army. And I called Drake back.

I said that deal still stay said yeah, fly here.

I selectly I'm not there.

So, like you said, you and dra met each other at what sixteen years old high school?

You were still in high school. That's crazy. Me being from South Texas. Dallas always is like more like California to us. To be in the text like this because the gang culture, Yeah, you know what I'm saying. How different was the gang culture being what?

It was?

No gang culture when I left Dallas? Yeah, Like when I left Dallas, everybody wanted to be from New York. There was warning, leather and tims. You know what I'm saying.

Yeah.

Then I went to LA and made these records with these boys, and then I came back the next year and everybody looked like Easy.

You ain't.

With the drip curls too.

Everybody looked like either with the sag and then the five h one with the hard crease. Sir, Easy was a staple of what would be the next thirty five years of me. They're still trying to be Easy to this day.

Speak to him, though, because I don't think he gets enough credit for just his creativity, his willingness to make the ship go. You always hear a lot of stories about just what kind of person he was. Speak to him, and and kind of his creative and in his mind, and how instrumental obviously all you guys coming together.

Was Easy was a real one. If it's a such thing as a real one. He was that, you know what, I man, and I don't think he thought steps ahead, uh, in his music space. He just wanted it all right now.

But he had that.

It wasn't the most talented dude in the world, couldn't write work for them, really couldn't rap work. But he had that yeah, yeah, that thing about him that when he walked in, you didn't have to see him come in, you kind of just knew he was. He was in there, and and all the little girls, they loved him and they had that voice. And it's hard to lose with with Dre's production, Bros. It's really impossible to lose with doctor Dre making your making your sound. And this is

Back then.

He took Mary, you know, he took my advice really seriously. And if you listen to World Class Working Crew, to the early n w A stuff, to my record, you could see that. You can see him again to stretch, you know what I mean.

So by the time.

We're going away from him, start going away from your sound.

No, he started leaving the n w A stuff going into my stuff you could see early g Funk.

Okay, yeah yeah.

By the time he got to the chronic he was stretching his wings and by the time he got the Dollar style, he was just out of his world.

Ocean Yeah yeah, yeah, been from Texas.

Any Southern rap groups, because I know you know a lot about the Southern rap scene in Texas. Any groups that inspired you when you was coming up rapping all.

Of them man student of the game. But when I when I was coming up as a young man, all my competition was in New York.

Yeah, you know.

It was Rock Kim and Koochie rapping, Big Daddy Kane and Slick Rick and k r rest One. I was battling against those dudes, the guys down there in Dallas. They were my contemporaries, but they wasn't as good as me, right, you know what I mean. I was trying to get really and really and truly it was Rocky. I want to be better than that dude. If I could be better than him, then I'm good.

Being in Texas.

He was the only rapper we even knew that was from Dallas for years. You know, I didn't start hearing from rappers from from Dalla to the Yellow Beases and stuff coming out. That's that's how long it's been.

It's a lot of them though.

Yeah, it's a lot of Most threes and all that.

But before Most three and trop Boy and Yellow Beesy and those guys. Oh what's up.

One guy from Dallas, he used to rapper Swisher House, he used to rapp with the Mother Boys.

And Swisher House.

Ron C.

Yeah, yeah, ron Se.

It's a lot of boys from Texas and Big Tuck and Tum Tum and cotton Mouth.

And I remember Big Talk. Yeah, he had a big, big too.

A lot of those boys.

And you know it's before it got really.

Uh just dirty, you know, got violent and what they call drill music, before guys start really trying to live the records on TV and film theyself being young assholes. You know, the music lost the love, the soul and it started just being about the bullshit. You know, when I was a young man, they used to slow dance. They don't do that no more. You know what I mean. You go to you go to a spot and you see a bunch of niggas dogs skip my language. You see a bunch of niggas in the corner dancing with

I wouldn't.

I'd be standing like cool J in the corner with.

The with my coolj A can't go on but ship.

They would slow down and you would hear switch and ready for the world, you know, not.

Get you get your grind on. Yeah, you have to down, you do, just move side to side and stay close enough.

You stan ain't your box?

Explain the birth.

Of the West Coast and how it came about, the West Coast style, the rap scene, how it came about in your mind?

When I got to the coast, Uh, they didn't want to let that shit happen.

It was only a M radio.

They didn't play rap on FM radio, mostly because the gang culture was was influencing.

And so I took it upart myself.

To write for those guys, records that weren't as threatening, you know, stuff that's funny and clever. And when I first got to La, you know, a few days after I got there, we all ended up in the studio.

Everybody was.

Everybody except Q was there that day and Drey pulled up the beat that we Won't Easy, which is a great radio record, and so he said, you got anything for that doc? And I wrote, I twisted up something for Eric, and that was the thing that broke him through.

You know, like you.

Couldn't hold him back after that, after you've seen Easy in that video, you couldn't hold him back. That record sold multi platinum with one single, Wow, you know, and it was that single. He only did one video and he was out of there.

What was that process?

Like?

Obviously we got to see it in the movie a little bit, but what was what?

We didn't show you writing for them as much as they showed Q writing for everybody.

I let them boys out of the time.

I had to say that because you know what I'm saying. It definitely showed Q right there everybody.

I hear that all the time.

Bro.

And they're talking about giving a n W A L sit there for the Songwriters Hall of Fame. Ain't nobody gonna call me, you know, That's just how it goes now, Ce Mike, Yeah, Ce might reach out because he does that.

Yeah, I told I told my my team the other day, like you always got your the big three games, always together.

That's my guy. Yeah, because he's a good man.

Yeah, you know, damn all the rap ship and the movie ship.

He's solid.

He's just a good man.

Yeah.

I always have been, not to say that those other guys aren't. But Q, the way he was raised is like.

A Southern the dude strong family.

Last night Jackson, I get it. I get it.

A lot of respect all those men, but but I got a lot of love for Q, just just because on GPD kind of human being years you know.

But uh, what was the question the process of kind of teaching I how to wrap?

Yeah, just I laid it. He take it and learn it. He come back to the studio and he take him all. It take him three or four days to do this ship. But uh, at the end of the day, Dre having him in pocket and man, look after that.

Did Didre have to nudge him a lot from being off beat?

Oh?

Yeah?

Yeah. A lot of you don't know that. I know, I know lively about recording, but and.

That's back in the days when when it wasn't digital or it.

Was analog, so you really had to know.

But dres Uh you know from and I know I'm an one who's speaking from you know, because Dre is my guy. But I don't think that there's anybody else in hip hop music that's ever been as good as he is doing what he does and watching him thirty thirty five, almost forty years, it's so easy for that dude. It seemed like he do the same little shit every time and it come out the same dope bass wet. In fact, I just left LA. I had to go out there and get the release signed by my big

And we was able.

Was he was twisting up some stuff for Snoopy's record that comes out next month. I think it's I think it's on the thirteen.

Yeah, Dog was telling us about that process.

Raising his bag right now.

He loved Snoop. Let us hear some of that shit, and I can't wait till it hit the streets.

Is in his bag, Snoop sound great. Those guys are happy, they're in a good space. He showed me a ten minute piece of content with the songs in it, in and out of the video, and it was really interesting.

I don't want to. You know, Drake get it.

He feel the kind of way if you talk about it. So I don't want to get too much. But what twenty five is gonna be for for that time in West Coast music, twenty five is gonna be a good year.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, bring it back.

We go hear some DC in twenty five years.

Yeah, I can't wait. I can't wait. Talk about the first time you cross paths with these people.

I'm gonna give you some names.

Yeah. Sure came around in the early n W eight times when I first got there and started producing.

I imagine those guys already knew this guy.

There was a musician that was in our clique name La dra Him and Sure called themselves brothers, and Sure was like a brother to me. Take me to the clubs, I mean used to be a club in Hollywood on Santa Monica Paradix twenty four and I'm nineteen years old.

I'm not supposed to be in there, but I'm mature.

They let me in. You might see Prince over there and ed him up over there, and so I shd I went from well that was projects to that more man passed the liquor you know, and Sugar. Sugar's very you know, he was in my ear. Wouldn't be none of this wouldn't be happening without you. You did a lot of a lot and it's probably just you know, blowing me up. And but we developed a real cool relationship. Man, and Sugar didn't.

Do it all right.

Uh.

In fact, he did a lot of shit that was not cool, but nothing ever happened to me. Yeah, and he's probably a big reason why, you know, I could walk around anywhere out there and nobody fuck with me.

Tupac was a good dude, good younger guy.

We was both alphas, and during that time, he thought he was the one.

I thought I was the one.

So you know how that worked. When we get in everybody gonna talk some ship. Now, when that record that you were just playing came out, he wasn't doing no talking to me.

Then when I had that accident, he had jokes all motherfucking day, and I didn't like that, you know, But him and Breeds.

God Rest, they was, you know, they was real close. And so between me and Breed and scar Face and pim C and Too Short, we spent a lot of time together in Atlanta in the late nineties, and Pop was a rider breed, and so I developed a lot of respect for him because he gave so much to

If you go this way, I can show you it ain't. If it's about getting this.

Paper, I can show you how to get the paper, and show you how to keep it, you know what I mean, and show you how to build with it instead of using it to build yourself up in them six or seven niggas in your circle and damn everybody else in the community. So you can follow off and give it right back to the man that gave it to you, instead of he using that money to build a bit bigger and better, brighter future for all of us.

It, and stay alive with it.

You said sugar was a big reason that nobody fucked with you when you was in LA when you first got it from Dallas, where you instantly accepted because I know you, probably they probably looking at like, who is this nigga come from Texas out here trying to Yeah.

Man, Another reason I took to the alcohol so tough is because I'm not like, I'm not a third guy, right, it's not my moo. But I'm a big enough man that you don't know, you know what I mean, whether if I walk up on this niggas, he gonna not really fun out. So a lot of motherfuckers left me alone. But that all make you bark loud dark Ain't nobody went for you?

So that was really me. It didn't matter who you are.

I'm talking shit to everybody, but I stayed within that small circle.

Man.

We wake up at ten o'clock in the morning, go to the studio, and we end up this to ten o'clock at night.

Speak to the competitive nature. Obviously us as athletes, it never left us speak to the competitive nature amongst you guys were Cube and everybody in there righting and rapping, and how competitive it was at that time in good spirit, but it got real. Speak to that competitive It is real, is it? Rapping is a gladiator sport. You know, look at Kenji get in the guy Drake. These guys are fighting for blood now. But back in those days, between QE. Wren and myself, not so much Wren. I think Ren

I was trying to tell that ass up every che and I think he was too, because he'd come here to spitish shit and I'd be like, Okay, I'm gonna take my sit.

Down, be right, this ship change.

He's Cube was so strong.

It's always that first line. If that first line is off the wall, then you know, yeah, and for it straight out of comforty fuck the police. God damn, I'm glad y'all said it out like that first line of that.

Yeah, that's a crazy first line.

But back in them days, man, it was love because we knew we had something special. When we was trying to be bring out the best.

Of each other.

Did you guys ever think at that time, because obviously coming from nothing, all you guys come from nothing that the sound you made with resident. Were you thinking about legacy or history at the time or just thinking about being great in that moment?

Yeah, just that moment we knew, we knew it was the ship. We didn't know it was to the extent of what it was gonna be. And when I was making workers with NWA, I wasn't even tripping off the n w A shit. If I'm being honest, I'm you know, I'm on the bench. I'm waiting for my let me shit, but it's my turn watching let me let me show

Guys would be out here.

They are they bothered me.

Yeah, I had to be right.

And so that just gave me a really competitive drive. Okay, that's like y'all want to do it.

But speak to what that groan, because I don't think people understand you had to really pay your dues.

First.

You put a lot of penwork in and a lot of instrumentaling other people shit to finally get your opportunity to, you know, to do your thing. But take that back to did I want to ask him after that? But when're coming from Dallas, right, you told that.

Those guys had already started the boat, and uh, you know I was coming in last, so you gotta you gotta pay your dues. But like I said, I was coming in from Texas, and when I got that all in me, I didn't mind telling them niggas every day who was the one that I made it? Now we can do it.

I'm here, let's get it.

Yes, But it was all.

Love and and and those boys are you know, they'll they'll be family. We got a legacy together, absolutely, and I'm just thankful for it.

What do you think the first thing to come to mind when you see that picture right there?

Who the two dudes in the back next to Drey lay Load.

And me.

I'm not sure, but I think that might be the nice somebody stole my necklace.

I look at my face, I'm mad.

The mother funny, you ain't got no change on? Huh.

Yeah, I think somebody snatched my shit off. I had to learn about even less.

You's you in the back? Yeah, I don't look like you.

Don't look like him, bro, that's why you said the wisdom dude.

Yeah, they don't even look like you back the look like mad like the skined dude, mad.

In laylong restom piece and my guys easy resting peace and a cue Nice m c RN DJ Yeller and and the Uncomfortable Doctor dre the Quincy Jones in my generation, Ma ro Pi Quincy question, do you.

Ever think about curling your ship up?

No?

That wasn't your thing. Huh No, you.

Ain't grow your ship. You ain't never grew your house. No.

Yeah, and we in Texas, you know the shag Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, my.

Sick would never grow that one.

Bring us in.

Started studio session with Dray Quick yourself, Q dads Like, what was that?

What was that like?

Fun?

You know?

What what is it like?

Uh?

Going to practice on the great.

Team and all you gotta do is play your role?

Come on, man, yo, that's it. It's fun and a motherfucker. You ain't got to do nothing but what you do and if you do it, well, y'all gonna win. And my lines day role off facts.

You know.

So I seen you somewhere, you just talking about when they arrived.

You're the m v P trophy McDonald's game.

Yeah, I saw you.

I empathized with that because the system is a motherfucker play the game, you know. But but you did that. They can't take that. Yeah, they can't take it from it. Yeah take yeah, And Kobe said it. Kobe thought I got MVP.

So I really feel like I got it now, Kobe said, talk about Das though, Like das dad is somebody who I'm a big fan of, and you know he had a big influence on Tupac as well.

With this, MutS can't talk about Das how talented Dash is.

Dans is a real one, easy shut snoopy dazz. THESEUS guys made from that culture and they represented one thousand percent. That is just a good dude and a fantastic producer. When I first met the dog, uh, he moved into my house with me out in Calabasas, and things started falling apart for me and I started losing my stuff.

Your car and all the all the ship that you.

I started throwing gold records away, you know, because I was just depressed and destroyed, and I threw records away and he would go get him out the trash and he kept the motherfuckers. He still got him to this day. That's just because that's my guy. You know, anything I need, I can call him and ask for him and snooping, that whole dog Pound thing, that whole Long Beach thing. Those guys really took me in and for me when when I couldn't care for myself. What's that's what's up?

Yeah?

Man, those are my guys, and that doesn't corrupt. Out Bound for life.

I'm gonna list some things off and then I want to ask you something particular. Obviously your early writing Easy's versus straight out of Compton and Fuck the Police co wrote easiest parts of Gangster Gangster with mc wren roll one of the classic n w A albums, obviously straight out of Compton, Easiest Pardon We Want Easy. When you're pinning for different people, how do you embody them in kind of their spirit to still make it them through your mind?

Then I'm a writer. That that's what I do.

And I'm not writing for them, I'm writing for me through them. I mean, because the ship gotta be dope. My job is to make them sound the best that they could sound. Being them may not be the ship that I would say, may not be the subject matter, but if you sit around them and pay attention to them long enough, you just take their mannerisms and the colloquialisms that they use, the little phrases and words.

And try to make it your own, you know.

And I took a lot of pride in being able to being able to give to those guys. I took a lot of pride in and being able to help Snoop find his voice, you know.

Uh.

And Snoop was a willing student, you know. He like Snoopy really allowed me to live when I didn't have no reason to live, because rap was really all I had. You know. When you took that shit, you took a lot, you know, but I was allowed to live through dog. And he came in and just tow shit up, So his victory felt like my victory.

He spoke to how instrumental you were and helping him be a craft his shit.

You know.

He was a big freestyler and you he was very you know, vocal on giving you a credit on you helped them song craft, and can you explain that?

You know what that meant?

I seen that he.

Get on here and he started trying to talk like me.

John said, God, but that was true. It's true.

He'd say he wrapped his whole long ass rap, and I'd be like, this shit is dope right here. He ain't lose me right here, but see down here, and shit is dope. Let's just let's put that out. Let's get this folk. Put that motherfucker right there. Now, wrap them eight line you see how Now we're gonna do this all the way. And he just wrap up, you know, a thousand bars and we just pick out sixteen.

So he didn't know how to write sixteen.

I think he just rapped.

Yeah. Just a lot of people still don't know how account balls. There's a lot of rabbits that don't know what account balls.

Snoop, you just turn that motherfucker home and go and he'll go.

Nineteen eighty nine time it's your time to shine. No one could do it better. Number hip hop album in the country, certified gold within three weeks. You know, everyone had their little piece on it, but it was finally your time. What did that mean to you, what did that feel like?

I was some motherfucking cocky at that time in my life. I probably was not the best human. I was probably talking shit to every single body.

And then Geod said, okay, back.

But my thought process, even while bec I'm a spiritual guy, you know, it's a God thing with me, always as being. Even the album of cover, no one could do. A better album of cover is in front of a statue of Jesus says King of King's Lord, Lord on the deal. Now in my mind's eye, and I saw that statue going from easy would take this treat going to the bank every imagine that going to the bank every time we went to Hollywood. I seen that that statue. So I'm gonna take my album come in front of that

The army and I prayed. Man, I got sat down.

Next to the couch at my sister's house I was living there at the time, and I prayed. I said God, this is what I want to do, like I'm good at this.

If you let me do this, I.

Promise you when I get there, I'm gonna tell everybody it was you, it wasn't me. And eighteen months later I sold three million records. My and Mine is gonna come out. Took the picture in front of that statue, thinking that was gonna be the beginning of my testimony. But then you starts, the kids starts wearing King of

One of our crew mentioned that, you know, you're noticed that you never really excuse me cuss too much? Yeah right, cuss too much during your speak to the thinking behind that.

At my core, I'm a East Coast MC in the tradition of those guys I mentioned to you earlier. Uh, and they didn't cuss like that, They didn't speak negative. All the shit that nw A did was not a part of hip hop in the area where I grew up, trying to become that, and so I didn't do that. I wanted to be the best at that. Yeah man, just lyrics. But that ended up being helpful to me spending time with the NWA guys, because the music still sounded rough and rugged. It's just the word plays different.

A few months after your album, you hit the album, you get into the accident.

Can you walk us through that night?

That's a couple couple of days over a weekend, Saturday and Sunday. Direct happens November the eleven, three thirty three am. It was just the anniversary, Yeah, thirty fifth anniversary. Just the other day I had been shooting UH videos over two videos of was that weekend, a video for a song called Beautiful but Deadly and a video to a song called a Formula.

And because it was so much.

Work, I was falling asleep a lot, and somebody was around that offered me something that would help me stay stay away, probably a very old story, and I accepted that and and twenty four hours later that accident happened. Twenty four hours later. Twenty four hours later, I UH, I took the stuff. I went home, which was Drey's house at the time, and Dre said Maig you need to take your ass to sleep. I said, okay, and then he went to the store. But about my inside

Just didn't make it. But I gotta say this canful.

Everything in my life is purposeful, including that accident.

Now, I had to go through a.

Lot of bottles, a lot of drugs and depression and to find my way back to who I am today. But it was twenty twenty.

I had been.

Cleaning sober for about eight years. God came to me, and I worked my way back up to a you know, a decent living. I could provide for my boys, and anything a good man would want to do I was doing. I didn't have what my contemporaries had. I didn't have certainly what Dray and Snooped them had, but I had peace of mind, you know, and Jo d came and he he.

Said, uh, you could let go of that pain. Huge.

He said that you didn't do that. I did that. You weren't responsible for that. I was, And uh, I did it for a purpose and you were about to walk in that purpose. It was a couple months after that I decided to do the documentary, you know, and everything since then, it's been on the show inclined, and I think, uh, you know, like I said, twenty twenty five is gonna be the year I stepped back out there on that ass.

And by that, by the time, by the.

Time the world show up in DFW in twenty twenty six, I'm gonna be back.

On my thronte.

Yes, sir, you know what I mean.

Yeah, because you know the g Cup is coming here in twenty six, so I'm.

Gona have my little little jingle bag ready. You can get that dollar from.

Everybody to get off the plug, understand me. That's good business.

Would you say, in the way that accident saved your life in the long run?

Absolutely, you know. I was.

I was on the one way ticket to the shit to some goddamn well wherever I was going. I didn't know, like I said, I was out of my head. You know, I thought I was the greatest rapper of all time. Can't tell me nothing. I got uh six foot three, three hundred and twenty pounds bodyguard basically with me. That said, if I come in the club and slap you upside the head, I can just do that and move out the way, you know, And I did that.

It was bad for a while through, but Jod got a.

Way of putting you in your your space and in your place. And like I said, all that stuff was purposeful so that I could understand and give back to these babies that's out there now. They think that's the way. It's not the way. Man.

If somebody said before your accident, the DC, if he didn't have an accident, he would be he would have been the best rapper, love best rapper. Ever, how do you how do you feel when you hear those words?

Well, I think they're right right, you know. And and little don't count me out cause I I still vote for me.

Yeah you know what I mean?

Like, uh, in order for they had verses, in order for you to do a versus against me, you would have had to have made one record and then get your voice taken away from you and then come back thirty five years later and make another one, and you can now you can go ahead up with me. M Other than that, you're fighting amongst yourselves.

I'm you know.

I don't wanna say I'm above that, as if I'm better than anybody.

But I I no longer. I'm no longer in competition with you.

Boy.

I support all of you.

Yes, believe yourself.

Of course.

I believe in God, and God believe in me. Yeah, Otherwise I'd have been.

Gone when your voice went away? Did your pen pick up or get more potent?

My pen always been my pen. It ain't never lost nothing. It's still him today. Yes, because Cubs say in this song, it's my ego. It's a new record he got out. He said, I was Kendred before Kendrick. Now you talking about the subject matter, but them cadences, I was Kendrick, you know what I mean. And when Kendrick put out, they're not like us. Man. It took me two days to write some shit behind that energy that he made me feel.

Uh, And I can't wait to record this.

Year and now the Dred is gonna get it out.

I wanna, I want, I want.

To back cut a little bit though, because take me through how mentally tough it was for you to drop something that, god damn it that is number one in the country, number one album in the country, and then taking your voice away, and as you see, your brothers continue to do their things. So I also read one time that you know, obviously their wins were your wins, but how hard mentally was it that you couldn't do it?

Man?

I don't think that. Imagine was it?

Was it the second year Mike.

To Is brokes ankle at.

The second year.

Imagine Michael Jordan toward his knee up and couldn't play no more? How do you think he would?

Might not be here?

You know what I'm saying? Right, So that's where that's where I was at. I was in a space where I didn't know what the fuck to do and the only thing I had was given giving it to to those guys. That that that kept me a lot, you know. Snoop says it in the documentary, you know, and he was right on point with that. You know that being big brother to Rage and rb X and Doggie and Dazz and Corrupt and and even Geeta.

Uh, that shit kept me a.

Lot, did you play a role in Dre going solo and leaving wa.

Oh yeah, none of that shit happens if I wasn't there. Number one, Dre never thought about it making music. I had to talk him into it. I had to fight with him for months to even make the chronic. He didn't want to do it. He didn't see hisself as a as a solo artist. I mean, but my shit was fucked up, so you all we got and so

Take us aside that that process. So you wrote nothing but a g Thing.

So I helped Snoop write nothing but a g thing.

Little ghetto Boy, Little ghetto Boy, lyrical gang bang, local gang band, just ain't shit bit, just ain't shit with a motherfucking gun with the motherfucker.

Hey, that's that. That's one of the ones right there.

That the day the niggas took over.

Little Ghetto Boy twenty dout Sack Pyramid twenty outside Pyramid. Yeah, I'm in the money, get my wied, So I go to the motherfucker slap me.

I remember.

Now, we was probably all the high hell, you know, but I just remember how fun right that shit was.

It was so fun.

You get so caught up in that moment that and it probably translates onto the tape because we was having so much motherfucking fun. I was really in that moment, nigga. I won, We won lee you know, yeah, bro, it was just you know, it was a time you can never forget. I'm so grateful and thank for the G O D. For allowing me to be me. And even with the path that I've had to walk, I wouldn't I wouldn't want to be none of them niggas. I want to be doctor because that nigga is the coldest.

Hey doctor.

This is the personal question for me because this probably this is probably one of my top three songs of all time.

How did y'all feel? I mean, what vibe were y'all were? Y'all made? Look YETO boy, we.

Made that song that's as a you remember the riots that we did that song. We were doing that song during the riot.

Yeah, it had to be some pain or something going on for that song.

To be went out and looted during the riot. Now, I told y'a I'm not a third. I was like, I'm not going nowhere. Snoop was like, nigger, get your ass in this car, and so I went through. And it's the one day I was in California where none of that game shit matter, didn't matter where you was at, didn't matter what you had on you know, and and that one day was probably the most beautiful motherfucking day I've ever had in California.

They'll get a boy come out. That's crazy. That's that's that's one of the ones. Yeah, that's one of the ones. No question.

Is it true that you did get did get paid, didn't get paid for your death a writing?

Yeah?

Yeah, but I'm going through it's all sudden to come back. Yeah, yeah, but I'm going.

To because I probably spent it all by now. It was some bullshit, wine, weed and women. But now I got two sons that mean more to me than any motherfucking record could ever mean. And and uh being a great dad, it just means everything to me, Like those are things that I missed as as a child, and so I'm gonna be that father for them.

You've spoken a lot, and both of y'all were speaking off camera before this about obviously God's timing. He wasn't ready for all that shit at that time. Right now that it's come back and you've grown and and and put prioritize your life and cleaned your life up, now it's all coming back.

You're a firm believer on that.

I've always been a spiritual person. I know God, and when he spoke to me, I know, you know, I know that I'm here for a purpose. I don't fear these niggas. I don't fear failure because it's not even me doing it. Right, this conversation that you're having, you think you're having it with me, You're not, you know what I mean. And so even my city for work, we as a city have never gotten an hour. We never had our hour, you know what I mean? And so good made me that guy, and so that time

We're not waiting on nobody to.

Come give us our shit no more, because only we know now. We're gonna build from the mud up, not waiting from the top down. Because with all due respect to the goat, you can't we can't wait for the lebrons to feed those of us at the bottom. We gotta start they're feeding ourselves and allow these guys to catch up and put in on it. That means you boys that's out there making that money, we got to figure out a different way for you to deal with it.

I respect that so much because I can, I can put a lot of that in my own life. You know what I'm saying. I was doing MYNVACA. I did a lot of things I wasn't supposed to do. You know what I'm saying. I should have been a better basketball player. I should have made a lot of small decisions and I paid for it, you know what I'm saying.

But where I'm at.

Now, even with the George Floyd stuff, all the stuff that's happening with our company, I never expected to be here, you know what I'm saying. But my heart was right the whole time. When I was making mistakes. I did right by people.

You know. I was loyal to a fall a whole bunch of times. And it's starting to come back.

Everything I lost, it's starting to come back to me because I never felt like when it was bad, I had to Okay.

I gotta do something to get out. I just sat That's right. I just sat there and let God figure it out for me.

So so I respect that so much because I've been through that in my own life, So I respect that.

Patience, bro, Patience is the key.

And I'm sure it's a lot of young boys out there with that same mentality you got, but they stuck in that in the train.

That's moving already.

Nobody's giving them an opportunity to get off. You can't just say stop and don't make no money. You got to show them where the money at. Like everybody else, they want to get paid. They want to be heard. They want to be acknowledged.

You know.

They think that when they get out there and do what they do to get that paper, then that's their way of being heard. That's to be satisfying themselves.

But I can show you.

A better way, you know what I mean. And I'm not telling I stopped and don't make it.

I'm talking about come over here.

Let me let me put you in the game getting it. You know, not everybody's gonna take that bait, but I'm gonna get a whole lot more, probably than I lose.

Your role in Doggie Style and seeing that album take off.

Yeah, by the time we got the Doggy Style, I was you know, I was just watching and being moral support. We had already went through all our lessons and so he was out of there. You know, I reserved a right to say I don't like that, you know, and maybe you'll change it, maybe you won't, you know, but.

It was his time, and.

That was my guy.

I was so proud of him that man.

I was just happy to be standing next to him when they did the up and smoke to her. They rode out in the low rider. I got to ride in the back seat.

You know.

Now, when g thing came out, I was in the front seat. They moved me to the back seat, but I was in the car and so up. Man, I was just proud of my guys, brou and still and still am.

You know.

I love those guys. I worked for them same way they work from me. I have no expectations from from anybody for anything. I've had to listen to folks talk negatively about my guys because they think they got I'm supposed to have. But that's not I'm not any of those guys. Son, you know, my path is my path and jo he got me walking my way for a purpose. And so even if even if those wanted wanted to

Wow, that's crazy, that's crazy.

She delivered my son. She was the first, uh, the diggy, the youngest one that talks so much ship and it's probably because she was the first one to touch you. You know.

Oh that's dope, man, that's dope. That's dope.

Drama we had with that, oh man.

And I was talking to Puma, Puma and her mother or in Brazil, right now, Erica is doing something and Puma called me and she said, my mom, and I was just talking about you, talking about what a greater example of a man you are. And see, boy, don't get no better than that.

Don't get.

Damn all that material ship right here is word counter most And when I'm not here anymore, they don't know that.

Obviously, very big on God, and you've spoken to him throughout this interview. God put Erica in your in your life at the right time. Explain when that time was and how instrumental she was on helping you kind of find that light again.

It's two thousand around that time, and Uh I was trying to find my way, still doing all of that bullshit, but Uh I was trying. I had I had. Uh They asked me to speak at at at the deal called the UH Hip Hop Summit in LA and I went and spoke and Russell was like, wow, bro, you you know you did that. I was like, I'd love for you to bring this to Dallas. You know we need this too. He was like, well, if you raise the money, I'll come. I raised the money and he came.

So you've been on her.

Yeah, we've been knowing each other since we were fourteen fifteen.

Okay, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah.

She was a rapper two back in the early days, and we was. She had her and a girl named Killer TJ and me and the feeling first school and everybody at the skating ring and they wrapped clicks, you know. And she was just a skinny little always had some pretty odd though, but she was just a bean pole back then.

But shit, by the time they ha Propa.

Suddenly came shit filled all the way out and I was seeing her and I was like, damn you grown up man. We connected and we started hanging out, driving around the city, just reminiscing on those times as kids. We had both kind of made it after the hood and developed a bond and you know how things go.

She from DW two, yeah, South Doublast, South Dayliss from South Dallas something from West Doublets and she.

Did that thing.

Put it on me, y'all.

Never did any news together, no, no, never thought about it, never talked about it. Now.

See I'm a smart man. I know where to go and where not to go. Erica is what she says. She's sensitive about her all ship.

I'm sensitive about my ship.

So leave her alone.

Yeah, she asked, Man, it's all good.

I love it, you know.

And I started trying to push Puma, who was so talented, but hon no mother, you know they yeah, So I leave that alone. I wait till they come to ask if they ass I'm ready. But this documentary now one that wants a record, and so I'd like to put together a record like Dray did for the Company movie that's inspired by and didn't have everybody that was in the participation. So that would mean something from Puma and something from Erica. Maybe we could all do something together

Yeah you got that.

Were you there when Dre first heard of eminem?

I wasn't there when he first heard it. Drey and I, you know, brothers, they they love hard, they wore hard. So when we get into it, we get into it, and so it was during one of our breaks that he found him. Uh, but he started working on two thousand and one record. He reached out to me and said, uh, you know, I need jail. And it had been you know, three four years, so I was I asked my bullshit, and you usually Drake calls I'm just gonna jump on the bird. And I went out there and he said,

He reminds me of that early.

Music he was making because his subject matter is so throwed off. Jeff's like, yeah, I think he's dope. I said, hell, yeah, he's dope. You gotta fuck with this kid. He's like, look, well, let me show you a picture of it. And then he brought the picture in a little eight by ten and he looked more like a you know, an actor or some shit. To the rapper who was his white boy, you know, he's like, that's him. I was like, wow, that motherfucker's off the chain. I'm a purist in the

What is How does it make you feel though that he really looked up to you a lot?

Though well I was pretty good. You know I would have looked up to me too. I take it as a blessing, you know that that that God let me live long enough to understand I made the impact, even even to be you know, on uh on this platform with you guys today. Man ship means something to me. Like I said, it's a full super moment. It may not mean, it may not be a lot to others, but it means a lot to me. So when you call stack man, I was like what I once and

That's why I look like zz top.

My bob.

He said, I'm gonna blow you out.

It'll curve back up when I put some wine on it back up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But yeah, man, I'm I'm really appreciative to you boys. I highly respect you just because of the men you are. I follow in your path as fathers, you know, and uh and and I applaud you for being great, great black men in this culture.

That I appreciate it. And Netflix, man, thank y'all.

Netflix, the movie bell out in the minute now I let my.

Peoples, Yes, sir, We're gonna help you connect them down.

Yeah, man, let me ask you this, when you heard Dre's verse, and what's the difference between me and you.

Did? What emotions did that take you through?

I don't think I made my way through it yet. Yeah, so I was still just drunk.

He meant that though, when he said I love you Doc, you can hear you can hear it in Dre's Boys like you mean he meaning old.

Yeah.

Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Eminem wrote that song, yeah, but Dre delivered it. Yeah yeah, and it's true to like shit, Man, I know Dre loved me. Yeah, I don't question that at all. He's a big brother, you know, and he's gonna act like a big brother. That means what I say in the movie is he watched me fall. He helped me get back up. Yeah, he watched me fall. He helped me get back up. You know, that's what the brother's supposed to do. That's right. And so whenever he called, I'm

The world with your music.

You have a relationship with Answer Pact, Yeah, talk about it.

He's so dope.

It it's called He's one of the great ones. Bro.

I remember it is a guy named Adrian. He brought Innocent to the studio and it was it was just a parent that he had that thing. He played a song oddly't know about being a pimp, and I loved it. You know, he's way over here from that, but you could tell in his writing that he just had that it. And and Dre's far from stupid.

And he had fun with his music as Pack had fun with his music.

If you show Dre the ship, he will snatch it up quickly. But Dre's been blessed with seconds.

He started out with.

Cube and then me and then Snoopy and then him and then fifty like he got blessed with and the hitters all the way through his ride. And so I'm just blessed to be on their list.

Is hip hop in a good place now?

I think it's evolving to a good place. Yeah, Yeah, I'm with you. Yeah, I think that's what's going on right now. I think a lot of the stuff that's going on in the world today it's sort of precipitating that that that that that shit is dead.

You know.

Uh, folks is getting in trouble, and folks is worried about whether they're gonna be into It's just time for some life. Enough for that death ship. Yeah, it's time for some life ship, you know. That's that's what I'm enough of the death ship. It's time for some life, yeah, bro, for real, for real, because uh, you can say that you are speaking life and to your children when you talk to them. But your children are no different than you were when you were a child. You know, you

I told him that ship, I already know what this is going boy, playing and just telling.

Him to take a look down. That's how that's that's that's how far I had to fall to find myself. You don't want to follow that far, you know, so tread lightly. But to her credit, the young man was a lot like me. Humble guy, got a squad but would rather not, you know. And it's and it's it's good enough to my baby that he knows when to talk and when not to. You know, man, he he he handle us her like I did. Her mother, or should I say, allows her to handle him the way I allowed I do.

You know, handled me? You know, had me being a vegan for two years.

I remember that, you know.

And then my grandmother said.

No, sir, come back.

Yeah, gotta let.

Jack chicken or something.

Jack's on the way to come back and eating bacon.

So again again in life.

Some shrimps, crimpscrim first thing I came back, ri scrimps.

That's up?

Mmm right?

And my grandmother, God rest her soul, Miss Hattie Henderson.

What was grandma go to?

This?

Beans?

Which one is limod? Okay?

Did you why whatever? She cood?

Yeah? Them good white beans.

Now that's how I knew Araca because folks were saying, man, that girl like you. I was like, niggad, y'all don't like me. We just we have a thing and we anything. But I went out of town. And while I was going out of town that she went over at my grandmother's house. She made my grandmother famous in the projects. And uh, my grandmother said, I like that girl. I knew then, you know, Okay, there's something else going on.

I'm all like her.

Yeah, well she went over at my grandmother house. I didn't tell her to do that. Yeah, why are you going over my grandmother's house.

She was expressing ourself to me in a way that she knew I would understand.

Because of cold broken nigga down.

Yeah, you needed it though, Yeah, indeed.

Jo d thing man, And she's a very spiritual person. I needed that.

Uh, and she's it.

I quit drinking and and doing all the other ship because her, because she gave me this little baby. And uh, I was talking about put my earlier. You know how little girl do you?

Man?

She loved me so motherfucking hard that I had to be like, well, ship, let me get my shit together around the girls will do it to you.

Bro quick hitter is first thing to come to mind. Let us know. Top five lyricists in your opinion, it's a lot of them. What's your list?

And I don't want to disrespect nobody. Rob Kim is a guy that that I revere cause he's the guy that kind of set me on the path.

That it that would make me meet y'all have a relationship.

Yeah yeah, yep mm cal rest cool G.

Cool G slip rick heavyence that that's why I came up and I and I could stay out of trouble.

Yeah.

If I do it like that, yeah, cause it i'd have to say cube, I'd have to say snoop.

The other side, I'd give him and them a.

Lot of credit for being one of the greatest. The guy from the Wall that a's the young man Wayne Lil Wayne. Yeah, I give him a lot of credit for being great. Three thousand. I give him a lot of credit for being great.

Give me three from Texas PIMC.

You know my guy six y two, Scarface, it's it's uh from volte Worth. He never got a chance for his life the time, but he's back at it. And and of course mister mister scarface, you know, and I talked to scar Face all the time. I chest talked to him not too long ago.

How he doing.

Somebody said he just went to another thing.

He good do. I talked to him.

Yeah, he wanted to hear from you, so I called him and then I called him and the nurse walked in the room and he said, I'm gonna call you back, nigga, never call it, so I know he got yeah.

Yeah, I talked to him. If you have to choose one album to play on repeat, what would it.

Be the chronic.

Because you can't miss those was the days. But we're in a different day now. We're in a different time. Even speaking to the boxing it's a different time now, like Bronnie being in the league, it's a different time. My youngest son, when Briannie was coming on TV, it was must mussy, you know what I man. So that's what we are. That's one of the reasons why I revere Lebron so much that he that he paved that way and made that move for his seed and got

But you know, I love.

These guys for being great and powerful men. That Lebron went back and did so much for his community. But there's so many of you cats out there doing that nobody. They never hear about that. They never they never tell you about what what Westbrook did during Oklahoma.

You don't hear about that, you know.

And so it isn't coming upon us to start being blowing the whistle for us, because they're not gonna do it. There you go, and I tell these boys in the hood, it isn't coming upon you to change his hood. You got the money, you just spend half million dollars. If I stood three of you boys up, all three of you boys, and spent the half million dollars each on a bunch of gold and diamonds that claim that when they see in the street they number one.

They want to take it from you.

But you could have put that one point five together and got.

You a house.

One hundred acres right down this freeway, developed your own community. You could have developed your own because we are way past the time of uh black Wall Street won't be any more of those, you know.

We we passed those.

Times because we going down with it now because they hold them to choppers now.

So you know.

Now, but you gotta begin it to consolidate. You have to begin to think in those terms. Not that I anticipate anything, because it's a good thing, but it is written the last to be first, first to be last. Your time is coming, so you must prepare for it.

You've been around a lot of great people, dead and alive.

You plus five and the dinner table, dead or alive.

Marvin, Yeah, sure, Biggie, Doctor King, Brother Malcolm.

You got any Biggie stories? No.

I met Biggie once.

Like, I was really mad at Biggie when he first came out because I felt like he was taking my spots. After the wreck and everything, I still thought I was better than everybody.

But when he came out, he was just.

So good. And I met him at met him in Chicago. He was doing the show and uh Buff was there, and Craig Mac was there him and Craig Mac was doing the show and uh Puff came and said, Biggie like to meet you. Man with you Comma and I and I went over there and he asked me if he could take a picture with me. He was so fucking humble it it made I became an instant fan. It's hard to he can't hate on the niggas. That's

Son be talking too much shit and he talks.

To way too much. Ship you up to beat on his chest.

I mean my dollars you losing.

I'm trash.

I'm trashy two K. I ain't play two K. What figure in hip hop will be a great boxer?

Well, Bri, I ain't been. I ain't been around enough cats. No, but dra got hands like a motherfucker mann what and with throw them things and drop over dye and matter of fact, like when I go when I go to l A, I never go out never go places dangerous out there. If I go, I go with Dre number one. He's gonna have plenty of security around number two. If they step out of me, gonna tell they hair.

Yeah, he got a good little I think he's involved in this. A new steakhouse in the valley called Boulevard. Okay, it is five. You gotta check it out.

He's animal business man.

Yeah, if you could see one guest on our show, who would it be? But you have to help us get your answer on our show.

Well you're not ready ask me. Yeah, I'm gonna put that word.

In thank you appreciate it. Bro Yes, sir, yes, sir. When I think of one line of one album people one album, and that is timeless. The only people I can think of are you and Lauren Hill with just one album. There's just timeless all this time. Still listen to it, Still want to see you'll perform, Still want to hear it, Like I can only think of you and Lauren Hill.

It's a blessing. Yeah, it's a.

Lot of Lauren Hill album.

No pleasing about it, mis education, Come on, Brod's showing out. It's a lot of folks out there. When out when the Reg happened eleven eleven. I was supposed to be. I was on tour with Ice Tea and mc lighting and Slick Reg and all these people. The tours started eleven seventeen, so I never got a chance to go out on the road with that record.

And but Ice Tea tells.

Me a story that it was his It was his job to go out on stage and tell folks that I wasn't coming because of the wreck. He said, Man, you could hear the emotion. You could feel that shit when folks heard what had happened. And they still ribbing with me to this day.

Bro, Like.

They don't give a damn about the voice, They just want to hear it. But it's creating. Art comes from inside and if you don't feel it, it's hard to get it out. But I say, you know, twenty twenty twenty five is going to be a great year for West Coast here.

Yeah, I can't wait.

We just want to thank you man for your time in what you've meant to the culture, what you meant to us, and getting a giving us another opportunity to get a chance to know you want a deeper level, and we firmly believe that all the great things ahead of your way, man, So we're going to be praying for you and only a phone call away.

Man. One last question. I just thought of it.

Thank you.

We had him on the show recently, Larry Johnson, you knowing.

Ljay Hell yeah, Grandmama yeah, yeah.

Y'all know other well yeah yeah, he went to Scotland.

Yeah, and he was our first big one.

Yeah you know, yeah, big fit.

He's still you know, great love it yeah.

Sir, yeah yeah.

Before we get out of here, we got a gift for you, first ever podcast coffee table book with all of our guests.

Uh.

Book number two will definitely have you with it. Of course. This is good to take home man.

Yeah.

Man, we appreciate you saying it.

Get all the smoke, even though I don't smoke no more.

What's smoking up? What's smoking enough for you?

He does, so she can pull up and blow with us.

Snoop said, you'll be back.

Thank you, brother.

We appreciateiation.

Mhm mm hmmmm

Mm hmmm