Steve Kerr | Ep 49 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

he won't be with us today. But I have my former coach mentor someone I look up to in this space, Steve Kerr. Welcome to the show, Matt. Thanks for having me on. Appreciate it. Thanks for your time. You just told me I didn't know. But you guys are out there in the Bay Area and your bubble right now practicing. How's that going. It's going well. You know, we were obviously one of the eight teams that that didn't qualify for Orlando, and so some of that was a positive.

I mean, let's be honest to the type of season we had. We didn't really want to go down to Orlando, sit in a hotel room for a month and and play meaningless games. On the other hand, as we watched all those teams playing and we were not able to get together ourselves and practice, we realized how quickly we were falling behind. So, you know, all eight teams now have been given this space by the league, and so everybody's doing an in market bubble. So we're in San Francisco.

We're just going back and forth from the hotel to our facility and and we're getting getting good work in and um it's been really productive. So UM, you know, trying to make the best of the situation. How long do you guys actually are in this this uh, this bubble. It's it's two weeks, um, and it's um, it's totally voluntary. Um. You know, this was not something that was required. UM. So we have most of our guys here, Steph and Draymond or not. They both had family stuff that they

needed to tend to. But we've got the rest of the group. Clay is here, Andrew Wiggins, all of our young play years from last year, and then we've got some players from our G League team as well. And the biggest thing, honestly, Matt, is just the guys getting to play five on five for the first time in like six months. I mean, it's been a long time. So just to feel the contact and the joy of playing basketball again has been really good for for everybody.

How's Clay looked. I mean, obviously the world has been waiting on his comeback. I love that he got to actually take the adequate amount of time because I feel like too often as players were rushed back or you know, the game is calling us, so the team needs us back. Clay got to take the right amount of time to recover and we'll have well, we'll see a healthy Clay Thompson next year. How's he been with this kind of being his first run, first contact in a long time. Yeah,

Clay's looked great. And I've seen him a couple of times during the quarantine in Orange County, and uh so I've watched him work out over the last few months a couple of times and and kept up to up to speed with him. So I was already aware that he was doing well and feeling really good. But this is just a kind of an ex natural step, you know, to be on the floor with nine other guys, and

so it's been really good for him. He looks great. Um, because rhythm and his timing aren't there, but that that's there's no way that that it would be given that he's been off for a year and a half. But he's healthy, he's feeling good, and it's been great to have him in the building and and obviously just thinking about next season with him, with stuff with Draymond, with Andrew Wiggins. You know, we we can start to think about having a good team again. Yeah, that's gonna be good.

We'll get back to basketball a little bit. We're gonna, you know, start with some other stuff. Obviously, we're in a crazy time right now in our country. You've been someone I've admired from a standpoint if you haven't let your position of who you are hold back your true feelings. You've always been very outspoken and passionate when you speak. Obviously in the midst of a pandemic, in the midst of I don't even know what we want to call it a change, hopefully for the better for our country.

Like I said, you've always been someone outspoken. Obviously, I think your past, and we'll get into your past, but I think your asked to help you be very confident who you are and what you speak about. Where did that come from as far as Hey, you know, I'm gonna speak my mind regardless if I'm the head coach of the Golden State Warriors or I'm just a man

on the street. Well, it's a good question. Um. I think I've always felt a responsibility just to conviction inside too, to try to do the right thing and say the right thing. But I never really said much politically when I was playing. But then again, nobody really asked either.

You know, it was a different time, totally different era. Um. I do remember speaking out against the Iraq War when I played for the Spurs living in San Antonio, and I was not a popular position to take, and it was kind of my first sort of foray into public protest. And uh, you know, San Antonio has five military bases. Um, you know, of military influence in that town is is

really really uh important. And so did to you know, make my feelings known about the war was not an easy thing because I wanted people to know that my my words had nothing to do with the military. They just had everything to do with humanity and and um, you know where things were heading. And so that was kind of my first time where I felt uncomfortable. Um, But but knowing that I was speaking out in the right way, and so that gave me a little feel

for what what was to come. And I think now we're obviously in a totally different era where, um, the times are really calling for people to speak out, and and we all have this enormous platform given the state of media, social media. As coaches, you know, on a on a typical road game, I do three media sessions a day. Um, it's insane, you know. So I'm getting questions every day on politics and you know, social issues. So, um,

it's now it seems almost part of the job. Really, it's anonymous, right, they go hand in hand now and and for so long it was stick to stick to sports and politics and sports still mix. But I completely agree with you. I think they go hand in hand now and I I want also who speak out, But I think, like you said, it's people with platforms and

who have a voice to travel. And obviously, you know, through our careers we've been able to, you know, build this platform that has allowed us to when we speak, people listen. So we're obviously in tune with other things outside of our profession, such as politics, such as families, such as there's there's so many more facets to who we are as human beings, were not just athletes. So I applaud you at the position you take, in the stance you take, and and really the vulnerability you put

yourself in speaking out on issues. Like you said, they don't always politically correct, I guess, but they're socially and morally correct. Yeah. I think that's the key. I mean, um, you've got to feel in your heart, and you've gotta you've gotta have a conviction and and then ultimately the most important thing is to have uh, real knowledge to to go with it, you know, the education of what

you're speaking of. And and I think that's what I've really tried to do over the last say four months, when with this social movement, this UH movement for racial justice really heating up, and given the time off that we've had, I've just been trying to educate myself and and read as much as I can about racism. I've read some incredible books, um that have taught me so

much and helped me realize that reality is. Even though I've always kind of felt like I was educated and open minded, I was pretty ignorant to a lot of what black Americans face. You know, I really was he. I've been playing with with black teammates and friends since I was you know, in junior high, growing up in Los Angeles and integrated schools, and yet I felt over the last few months, you know, kind of humiliated, like, oh my god, how do how do I not know

about Black Wall Street? You know, how do I not know about some of these awful, awful times in our history where the black community has just been devastated by by violence, by um all kinds of horrific acts that nobody taught us in school, you know. And so I think that's what's been most eye opening for me is just the realization that, um, we are all um why when I say we, I mean white people, We're all

blind to a lot of this stuff. And it's it's on us to learn and to under understand and to put ourselves in someone else's shoes and and understand what's what's happening and why and what can we do to change you I think you hit it on the head too,

because it's not taught. So I mean you have to really go out there and search and look and try to educate yourself in the ability to open your mind up enough to not only be present within yourself and what you have going on, but the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes, because as a white man, you can learn as much as you want, but you'll never understand the feeling that a black person will go to. But all we want you guys to do is try to understand, you know what I mean. And I think

there's a I think there's been a turn. There's been a shift in the paradigm where people are actually willing to do that now because of the George Floyd situation. Unfortunately, normally, when African Americans are gunned down by law enforcement, it's a shot and they're dead. And I think for eight and a half, almost nine minutes, almost the time of an NBA quarter, we watched a man suffer and call

for his mother and plead for his life. And I think that really pulled on the heartstrings of America and it really started opening up people's eyes and making people realize that, you know, hey, there's a real issue in this country and now is the time to address it. Um. I feel we're still going through it, but I definitely feel like we're going to turn the corner and good things are coming, but it takes things like what you're doing to educate yourself and then not only educate yourself,

but then spread what you're learning. You know what I mean? I can said you do a great job of utilizing your platform to speak what you've learned. Um. Fast forward to the NBA bubble. How do you feel like the NBA did be able to create an environment, a safe environment not only for the players, but then also for the players to continue to carry their their messages through social justice and the initiatives that the NBA has put upon their shoulders to try to help, you know, be

a small part of change. Yeah. I thought the league has did a really good job of first of all, creating a safe environment and the bubble, by really every measure has been a resounding success. And the first thing I do is is give credit to the players and coaches and administrators who are down there and who have

been there for over three months now. If you know, if you look at the Lakers and the Heat, I mean the sacrifice that all those players those organizations are making for the rest of us to keep the league going. I want to make sure I I reference that because it's it's been hugely important for the league to be able to put games on TV and to entertain our fans and keep things going. UM from a racial justice standpoint, the great thing with the NBA is that I think

the players have always felt the support. Maybe not always, but in the last you know period of time, UM, decade, couple of decades, the players and coaches have felt the support of UM, the league management in large part. You know, we've been really led in a powerful way by Adam Silver. UM. You know, his very first act as commissioner was was

kicking we're all startling out. Yeah we were. We were in the playoffs when that happened, which is insane, but that it was a huge first step a lot, you know, for that to be your first issue, and he handled it swiftly and gracefully. It was beautiful then it and it felt empowering. UM. And I you know, I I can't I can only speak as a as a white man, but I was proud that to be part of a league that said, okay, like we're going to really address

this stuff, and we're gonna support our players and our coaches. UM. So I think going into the bubble, you know there's that uh foundation that's already there where there's a trust level between the players and management. Um, not that everything's perfect, but I think there's a trust level. Fast forward to the Jacob Blake shooting and the players kind of throw their hand ends up and say, we can't do this anymore.

UM my take on that. As I sat at home, obviously I'm not in the bubble um, I just sensed an incredible frustration of a group of players who had dedicated this entire season to the Black Lives Matter movement, to social and racial equity justice, using their their platforms to spread the message throughout this time, and then the same old thing, just black man getting shot by by cops seven times in front of his family, and combined with the fact that these guys had already been in

Orlando for a couple of months away from their families, It's like, to me, it just looked like everybody through their hands up and said, we can't, we can't do this, Like we can't just perform for your entertainment and not see real change. And and so last thing, and I'm rambling a little bit, but I think this is important. I think the reason that was an important time time out was that the players missed a couple of games.

They sat out and they said, we're not playing and they use that as leveraged to get some concessions from the owners terms of opening up arenas for for voting centers and U, I think there were some financial considerations in terms of donating money to to social causes. To me, the reason this is so important is that what can really change things is corporate America deciding to jump on board this train and putting their money where their mouth

is and changing policy. Changing um, the way we police, the way we go about our business, the way we protect each other. Um. It has to come from rich white people to be perfectly, blunt, absolutely rock the vote. In your opinion, how important is it for you into everyone else to not only vote on the federal level, but the local and state level as well. Yeah, it's huge and and um, you know, I've I've read all

the stats. I mean, young people generally don't vote. You know, it's uh, the numbers are are are staggering, and I think it's like one in five, you know, between the ages of eighteen and thirty, UM, in the last election, if that actually voted, Um, and yet the future of our country is at stake. And and so because of this movement, because there's so many young people really of of of every race, UM and background or so invested

in this movement. Uh, they got to back it up, you know, they have to back and back it up and show up at the polls, um and help create the change that that that they're calling for. And it can only happen if they if they get out and vote. Absolutely. Um. You had a very unique upbringing, Um, with your father moving around, you know, had spent some time at Beirute, Egypt, France, Tanzania. What was it like as a young child growing up in so many different cultures? It was a real blessing,

although I didn't realize that at the time, Matt. You know, my dad was a professor at u c. L A. And I just wanted to live in l A and and go to U c l A basketball games and you know, play play sports with my friends. And then my dad would would come home and he'd say, all right, we're gonna, you know, pack up the v W van and and uh put it on a boat to Egypt, and you know, we're gonna go live in Egypt. For the next two years when you're ten years old, like

what we're doing? What? So not exactly something that that thrilled me at the time, but I look back on it, it it was the best education I ever could have had to live in in Cairo for three years. Um. Also in uh in France it was actually too easy and not Tanzania, but uh, excuse me, that's that's all right. The point, the point at the point is the same. It's living in a different culture, totally different part of

the world. It just gives you an entirely different perspective on life and and it gives you an empathy for other people and um and an awareness that you know, uh, we all come from different places, but we're basically all looking for the same thing. We get all these political and racial differences get in our way and suddenly you've got horrible inequities and atrocity is happening, and it's insane because we're all just We're all just flesh and blood.

And I think getting that perspective as a kid was was really important for me through that process. Where did basketball fit in? Is that where you found when did you find your passion for the game? And who were some of the people you looked up to in the game. Well, my uh, I was a bruin at heart. I know you like that, you know. But my first game was at Pauli Pavilion. I was five years old and Bill Walton was playing for U c l A. And and

uh and so I I was. I was raised during that heyday when U c l A was winning year after year and John Wooden was was the coach and and so too. That's where I fell in love with the game, you know, walking into Pauli Pavilion for the first time and hearing the band play and watching the team and every seat was filled, and the crowd noise and the energy. It was just invigorating and and uh, that's that's where I fell in love with it. And then I played all sports, you know, like we we

did back then. I know you you played baseball and football and I did the same and and so I just played played sports all the time. But basketball was my favorite. And when I was overseas, I was able to play. That was one one of the good things about basketball was that you know, people played basketball in each of they didn't play baseball or football, so that that helped I I just was had an outdoor hoop at our school and played on the school team, and

you know it was it was fun. Ye finished sing up your high school career in California, not very highly recruited. You end up at Arizona as part of Lute Olsen's first recruiting class. What was that like playing for such a lary Dairy coach? Obviously we lost him not too long ago. Rest in peace to coach. What was that experience like being a part of his class, going to you know, wanting to go to u C. L A, ending up at Arizona, and then having a successful career

at Arizona. Yeah, it was sort of unexpected. Um. You know, I finished my senior season without a scholarship offer, and I didn't really know what I was gonna do. So everything kind of happened at last second, and um it turned into the break of my lifetime because to go to Arizona and learned from from coach Olsen. Um and

then too you know, he built the program so quickly. Um, so within a few years I was playing with NBA players like Sean Elliott and and Judd Bushler and and Sean Rooks, And I mean we we we were we were loaded. Tom Tolbert, Kenny Lofton was on our team and went on and had a amazing big league career.

And so Lute built this incredible program quickly, and and so to be part of it and to learn from him and to have the foundation upon which the rest of my life has been built was just the ultimate gift. So I will forever be thankful for Coach Olsen and what what he meant to my life. Do you apply anything, probably most likely that you learned from him to your

coaching style you have now? I do? I do? I think, Um, I've probably taken a little something from all the coaches that I've played for, but from from him, it was, you know, there was such an environment of you know, this is something special, like you're part of something special, and you felt that the first day you walked in, and he made it feel that way through the work, through the mission that we were on, through the family Vie that that was there, um, And so I think

I've taken that. I I always want players who come to the Warriors to feel like they're part of something special, and that's how coach, That's how Coach approached it. Absolutely your father accepts a role as president of American University and eighty two. Unfortunately January of nine four. Uh, still while you're at Arizona. Uh, your father was killed. How did that tragedy impact you being thousands of miles away

and then also obviously impact your family. Yeah, so he Uh, he was one of the early victims of terrorism during you know, this age of terrorism that we're in. It really began, um kind of in the late seventies, um, with the hostage situation in Iran at the American embassy, and then you know, the early eighties there were various um, you know, hijackings and kidnapped things, and bombings and in the Middle East and and and so my dad was was killed by gunmen and two gunmen outside of his office.

I was eighteen at the time, um, freshman year at Arizona, and uh, you know, just crushed me, just destroyed me. And I was really close with my dad. I have three siblings. We were all really really close. And and you know, it's hard to hard to know how to function when something like that happens, because you you know, I suppose a lot of us just live in a little cocoon growing up if you know, assuming things go well for us as as a child like they did

for me. You know, I was pretty innocent and you know, I didn't think anything like that would happen to me, and so when it did, it was devastating. But you know, I'm I'm proud of my family, everybody, you know, really stuck together, My siblings, my mom, everybody as as moved on and with their lives and done really well. And we think about our dad every day, and um, but you know, you keep keep moving, keep moving forward. I

lost my mom, um two thousand seven to cancer. Um. What role did basketball play for you and in helping you not necessarily get over but try to you know, start life after your father? Yeah, I think it was. That was my sanctuary for sure, you know, just going to the gym and um. You know, I remember about about a few days after um my dad died, we had a game and actually the next day I went to practice, you know, and coach Olsen said, are you sure you want to practice? And I said, what else

would I want to be doing? You know, um? And it wasn't like some heroic act, it was just what else do you do? Um? You know, you're just at home and you're sitting there, you're thinking about everything. It's it's a miserable time. And and sort of get on the court for a couple of hours and lose yourself in the game and be with your friends and and you know, feel the endorphin kick of of you know,

intense energy and exercise. It all helps. It's very therapeutic, and it it you know, people might think it sounds insensitive, but it's really not. It's it's just part of part of that process of immediate grief. You know that the game was like the the one thing during the day that I could look forward to. Yeah, that was that was to say, I played two days after my mom passed, and so, like you said, lose yourself for that two

and a half hours to just something you love. Although every time there was a foul call or a whistle was blown, you you know, you obviously revert back to missing your father, to missing my mom. But basketball was a huge part and obviously my supports this and which was my team with the Golden State Warriors at the time. With that, we believe team was tremendous and in kind of you know, being a shoulder to lean on and allowing me to be okay, to agree and be those

people you needed them to be. It was. It was a special experience. But like I said, I really think basketball helped me transition through that point in my life. Well, your teammates become a family for sure, especially you know,

a team like that. I mean, you know, I remember I was in broadcasting at the time, and I did I did some of your games, and I remember you going through that loss, and I remember, um, you know, just um, and of course we knew each other already because you had been in Phoenix, uh before that when I was in management with the Sons and and so I was, you know it just feeling for you and watching you and and just um knowing exactly what you were going through because I went through the same thing.

But that game and your teammates, that's what you have to rely on. Absolutely. Um. How special was that final four team? You guys had? You know him and saying the guy Sean Elliott, Kenny Lofton, Tom Tolbert, Anthony Cook, a young Jed Bushler. What was it? What was that experience? Like I think Kansas with Danny Manning won the championship that year. If I'm not mistaken. Yeah, we lost to Oklahoma in the final four. It's the one game, Matt,

honestly that I still think about to this day. I don't think about I don't think about any of the good ones. I really don't. I only I only think about that one because I played so poorly and I shot two for thirteen, not that I you know, have kept tracked, and uh, it was so painful, um because we had a we had an incredible team sodid Oklahoma and they were fantastic and they beat us and then Kansas says, you said they upset him in the finals. But I think about that game still. This season was

so special. Those guys remain my best friends to this day, the guys from that team, and you know, we still have that that bond that's going to exist forever. So I've been lucky just to not only be on great teams, but beyond teams that just were really close, you know, and and where I made really good friends and so much fun to stay in touch with old teammates, you know, just touch base. W It's great. Absolutely. When this is a two part question, when did the NBA become reality?

And then once you made it, when did you feel like you found your footing in the NBA and you felt like you belonged. Man, That's a that's a great question. Um, it really didn't become a reality to me. I guess I've realized my senior year in college that maybe I had a chance, um, and I got drafted. It was the last pick in the second round by the Suns, And when I made the team, it didn't feel like I was really there yet. I just was on the

end of the roster. So the next few years, I got traded to Cleveland, played for Lenny Wilkins, who was a good, fantastic coach. We have really good teams with Mark Price and Brad Doherty, Marry Nance, Craigy Lowe, Ron Harper Um and I found my footing, uh for for a couple of seasons. During that time, I had had a couple of good years, but but I was really still a fringe guy for most of my career, And to be honest, I'm not sure I ever felt a comfortable that I belonged, you know I And maybe that's

what drove me. I always just kind of felt like, you know, I could get cut at any time, and so as a result, I put in the work and I competed, and uh, and I just kept sticking around and um and yeah, I ended up playing fifteen years, which is sort of shocking. Um, I still can't believe that that my career lasted that long. But now I was. I was fortunate and and I kind of ended up on in the right place at the right time in

a lot of cases. Absolutely, Uh with Chicago, you end up in Chicago, And uh, you guys go on a three pet run from nineties six, obviously, with the last dance being such a huge success and winning a lot of awards. What do you remember from that time? Obviously, I'm sure that refreshed you a lot, whether things that you saw there, like that ship didn't happen that way,

or things you completely forgot. What was the experience like kind of going because you guys missed the social media generation, you know, so this that was almost like us being able to see social media version of you and Michael Jordan's Scottie Pipot and Phil and Dennis and all this stuff you guys went through. What was it like just sitting back, like watching stuff that happened over twenty years ago?

It was really fun because you know, at the time, they didn't have all the sort of Heart Knocks style shows, you know, um with teams like nobody was allowed behind the scenes. Yeah, no, behind the scenes at all. Nothing, nothing like even NBA Entertainment. You know, they might be allowed in the locker room during the championship celebration, but

you'd never see a camera and a team meeting. Um. You know, you'd never you know how now like you know, let's let's listen in on Frank Vogel during his halftime speech during the platform that's never never never. Um. So when Phil told us that the cameras were going to be behind the scenes, and you know why he was allowing it, it was kind of shocking. And then seeing all those guys every day was really weird. The first month it was, you just felt so exposed. And I'm

still not sure it was a great idea. UM. I don't think I would allow it as a coach. I think I think it's you're opening yourself up to a lot of potential problems. Um. But I'm really glad that that it happened because now, you know, to watch it twenty two years or later, especially with my kids who were babies at the time, you know, Um, and now they're all grown up. So to to watch with them and for them to see kind of what life was like for me back then, was was really fun. What

was it like? I mean, I'm sure this is a common question playing with Mike. Um. You know we heard you guys had your differences at times, but just overall, him as a teammate, him as a competitor, and is

there a friendship there's Is there a friendship there? There's Uh, there's there's a mutual respect that that exists, and and uh, we don't really stay in touch, um, but we see each other maybe once or twice a year, whether it's at at a game in Charlotte or All Star weekend or you know, maybe a golf tournament or something in Lake Tahoe. Like we've we've we just seemed to run into each other once in a while because we're kind of,

you know, traveling the same circuit. And there's always it's always a great reunion, you know, He's Um, it's so much fun to kind of relive those days and to ask about, you know, our teammates and talk about you know, the good times back then and being his teammate was hard. Um. You know, he he was really tough on everybody because his whole philosophy was he had to toughen us up to get us ready for the playoffs in the finals, and so he came after us and you had to

you had to stand up to him. He had to sort of survive the the MJ test, you know, and and the guys who who survived it. Um, he had immense respect for him. And so you know, people know about the fight I got into him and I that we got into two together, and um, that was just about him kind of testing me and uh, and I probably the best thing I ever did was not you know, not take his his crap, and you know, stood back up and he respected it and we got along ever since.

So that was a similar you know, obviously we weren't teammates at the time, but like I said, I think getting a chance to play against Kobe for so long and he'll test you mentally physically obviously as an opponent. Um. But then you know, it came to a head in the in the two thousand nine, two thousand ten situation with the ball fake, and you know, we almost ended up fighting at that point. But what a lot of people didn't know was at the end of that season,

he personally called me. I didn't even have his number for some reason. I just picked up and it was him. He's just like, you know, anyone crazy enough to funk with me, is crazy enough to play with me? Do you do you want to be a Laker? And you know similar you know, I mean, like the great ones will test and they want guys that aren't going to

back down from anything. And obviously you've earned Mike's respect through that, and then you guys went on to win some championships, him coming back, Um, you guys losing to Orlando and then coming out and having that tremendous ninety six season where you guys go seventy two and ten. What was that like? I mean, to lose ten games? And then obviously as a coach you surpassed that record which no one thought would ever be broken. But as a player in that in that moment, what was that

time like? It was incredible that because is uh, none of us had ever experienced anything like it. But you know the fact that Michael had left the game for a couple of years just completely recharged him. Between him having a full off season to prepare and being recharged and motivated, and then Dennis coming aboard from the Spurs during an offseason trade. We were just revitalized, the whole

whole franchise. And I remember the media asking us about possibly winning seventy before the season started, and we were all, you gotta be kidding me. Nobody's gonna win seventy. And yet we just blitz teams right out of the gate, and I think we were forty one and three at one point. It was like we were just looking at each other, like this is this is insane, This doesn't happen. But it was that perfect storm because of his absence and because of Dennis's arrival and just this amazing energy

that existed and Phil's genius as our coach. Just the way it all happened, and by the way, Scottie Pippen was one of the great basketball players in the league at the time. It was an amazing, amazing run. What was it like with Dennis? You saw stuff and it fucking blew me away when he left for Vegas and Phil being Phil, I got an opportunity. I got a chance to play for Phil his last year before he announced to us he had cancer and he was going

to step away from the game. And when I tell people like that's what I saw in you when I came to Golden State, was Phil implemented his system as you did. And then you kind of take a step back, and you're not the raw ry unless you have to cuss someone out, you're not that. You trust the players you put out there to allow us to create and play the game and see the game through our eyes. What was it like kind of a two part First of all, what was Dennis like? And then playing for

someone like Phil Jackson. Well, it's a good question because the way Phil coached Dennis really, um was was the key to everything um and and it and it really informed me about what coaching was about, you know, because as Phil demanded certain things of Dennis and then got out of his way, and I saw how powerful that was. Um you know, the idea of giving someone a vision and then letting them go and then occasionally raining them back in, show him the vision again, letting him go again.

That's powerful, you know. To me, that's coaching. Because these players are artists. Man, they're they're they're so gifted at this level, especially and you know, if you're if you're gonna call every play and try to orchestrate everything, you're overthinking things and you're not letting the players be who

they really are. The way Phil handled Dennis was was genius. Uh. The first year was it was incredible because you know, Dennis was so excited to be part of the of the team and he was so different, but he connected um with guys in in in strange ways, like he wouldn't say anything for a week, um, you know, but you've you've like there was just energy from him that

you know what, that's a good dude. Like he just you could tell he had a good soul and he so he was vulnerable in that way, like he allowed you to see his soul and what he was about. Um, but he didn't communicate a whole lot, so you had to you had to understand him and get to know him a little bit. Beautiful minds um finals h M J. Flew game his amazing game and then you hit the game winner in game six? How did your life change after that? I think in some ways it was it

was validation that I belonged. You know, you asked that question earlier, When did when did I feel like I belonged. Maybe that's the answer. Maybe it took that long. I think that was maybe my tenth year in the league. But you know, I hadn't hit many big shots before that, and so hitting that shot felt like I actually belong here. I had to prove it to myself, but I had

to prove it to other people also. And then it also led to another contract, you know, my I was a free agent a couple of years later, and the Spurs gave me a five year contract, which was the most money I ever made my career, which allowed me to buy a house in San Diego and and you know, take care of my family. And so it changed, it changed a lot of things. I think hitting that shot probably got me my job in TV, you know, because playing for the Bulls and having a big moment took

me from a place of relative obscurity too. Oh we know that guy, and you know, so that season, that those years in Chicago and hitting that shot, it all added up to kind of giving me a boost um to another another level in my own career in life. I love it now obviously with the last Dance, you know that you guys win your third title. Seeing last Dance. There was so much behind the scenes that obviously we

didn't know. I don't know, I'm not sure if you guys were, But did you guys really feel like this was really really going to be the last run? Or at any point did you just think it was talker did when you guys knew that season? Hey, you guys really knew it was going to be the last run. We knew it was done. We really knew. Yeah, we

knew we were done. And uh, you know, it's so funny because you know, the last Dance came on whenever it was, I guess it was June July, so it came on, and it finishes up, and and after the tenth episode, I had, you know, all my friends are calling me and the media is asking me, you know, could you could you? Or why didn't? Why didn't the Bulls keep the team together? You know what was Rhyan's store of thinking? Why didn't they just sign everybody and

keep going? And I think that's the logical sort of thought, But it's never that simple. It's never that simple. And and what I've what I've really realized, you know, coaching the Warriors and feeling feeling that pressure that you feel, you know, going to the finals multiple years in our case five years or row with the Warriors. With the Bulls it was, you know, six times in eight years. I think there's an emotional toll that is so big that it's hard for people to understand that when a

team loses its edge, it's you know, it's energy, it's motivation. Um, it's just over. And so people can say, you know, you gotta if you guys had come back, or you know, if Michael hadn't left for baseball, you would have won eight championships in a row. I call bullshit, Like it's just you know, there's just no way. There's no way we were There was too much fatigue and it ended

for a reason, it was supposed to end. It was just that was the time speaking out on that as a player and what you saw and what you felt. Did you feel that with this current team did you feel like you guys had had done Obviously injuries played a huge part kind of and you guys is not winning again, But did you feel like because we're in a different era now, so everything is publicized. Small arguments don't stay in the locker room, Criticisms don't stay in

the locker room. Everything is for public consumption now. So did you feel as a coach, which you felt as a player in Chicago at all, in that Golden State organization or locker room so to speak. I did. Um, I could feel it a little bit. You know, the the last year when we lost to Toronto in the finals. Um, it was a different type season, you know, we um, we could just feel. Um, the connection wasn't as powerful. Um. And it was just human nature, you know. The there's

nothing like the climb. The climb is the best, the best part. You know, you get to the top and you've got to start over again. That's that's you know, it's pretty hard, but it's worth the climb. But you try. You got to make that climb three, four or five times.

It's exhausting. So we felt that exhaustion. UM. I thought last year Draymond, Stephen Clay desperately needed to get away, and unfortunately it took really horrible circumstances, um for Draymond, or for for Steph and Clay with season ending injuries. Even Kevin Durant, you know, after three straight years of

going to the finals. Um, you know, uh, I think he probably needed arrest and Uh, I hated that had happened the way it did with his injury, but you know, making these runs out of to me, that's why what what Lebron incredible? It makes no sense. It makes people don't understand and I think, obviously because you played and you're a coach, people to understand the mental drain it takes on your body, on your family, on everyone around you as well, because like I said, it's from the

outside looking in. Know you keep k d and you guys keep running, or Mike doesn't go play baseball and you guys. It's never that simple. It's it's so it's such an emotional roller coaster. I mean, and not to mention the physical grind, but the mental grind is just

as tough, if not tougher, than that actual physical grind. Yeah, And while you're going through that grind, there's four or five other teams that are on the climb that are incredibly motivated, that have been building their teams specifically to beat you, and that can't wait to play you. And uh, and you're so you're you're already exhausted and now you see these people climbing below. You're trying to pull your leg down. You're like, leave me alone, you know. So

it's uh, it's exhausting. So you know, ten ten finals appearances for Lebron, But I think, if I'm not mistaken, this this is nine out of the last ten years, right, that he will be in the finals. That's insane. That's insane. Yeah, and you guys had a lot to do with his record in the finals. But yeah, he got up. He

got our best team. The you know, the three win team was you know, not our most talented team, but you know that that team was, oh, steam rolled through everybody and then and then they got us, So that one stung. We're gonna get to the to the Warriors, it was. But I want to continue with what you had going on. So you leave, m J retires, Scotty goes to Houston. If I'm not mistaken, you guys, you go to San Antonio. You guys win that next shortened year.

Correct with a mention, David Robinson and in a very young Tim Duncan, you landed on your feet. You leave, you leave a three pet and you go to to pop in the Spurs and you keep the train going. What was that like? Yeah, it was really weird because it was a lockout season, as you mentioned, fifty games season. Um, you know, Pop wasn't Pop yet, he was maybe in his third year coaching. I didn't really know anything about him. Um, But to go there and to immediately be part of

a championship team was kind of crazy, you know. Um, I felt like I just sort of fell off of a train and landed on a bandwagon. And you know, they handed me a trophy and I was like, Okay, here we go again. It was it was really bizarre, Um. But I think the the experience that I had in San Antonio, even though I didn't play a ton, I made a much bigger impact in Chicago than I did

in San Antonio on the court. But what I learned in San Antonio has been so important for me and my coaching career and UH, and and playing with such incredible guys. Tim Duncan is as good at a teammate as there is um on earth and and UH. To go through that experience was was remarkable, given that I had just been granted the opportunity to play with Michael

Jordan and the and the Bulls. So I've been I've lived right, and I've lived right, absolutely, So after that you had to Portland and then you come back and get your fifth ring. Um, you know my colleague was a part of that team as well. You guys both hit big shots to help secure your fifth ring. And that was your final season. What made you say it's time? Well, I was thirty seven and my knees were probably my

last three years playing. Um, my knees were really hurting and I was popping by ox, you know, just to feel capable of, you know, moving the way I wanted to move. And it was so frustrating. You know, not that I was ever very quick or fast, but you know, you want to feel your best to be able to play. And so when you get old, and you you probably remember this, you know, at the tail end of your career.

You know, one day you feel twenty five and the next day you feel thirty eight and you can't figure out why, or you know, get banged up. And when you're young, you know exactly why you you're banged up. And you get older and you get out of bed and you go, why does my left hip hurt? You know? And and so that three years of that thirty seven, we won the championship and in oh three, it was just time. It felt rain. Yeah, now I felt that

to the extreme. You know. I came. I was thirty seven with my my finding you're with you guys, and it pissed me off because a sprained ankle had never taken me out like I sprained my ankle, and I'd always bounced right back. But this sprained ankle was the sprained ankle of them all, and it just wouldn't heal. And by the time and I tell people, you know, obviously, I took in less money my whole entire career to get into a winning situation because I wanted to win.

And I finally get an opportunity to come to you guys, when unfortunately Katie goes down, I step in you know, you insert me. It was crazy. So I'm at working my kids out DeMarcus were I'm in Sacramento that the King's talked through me to get to DeMarcus all the time. So they're reassuring me the whole time they're not trading DeMarcus. Oh, he's good. He's you know, we're a half a game, a game and a half out of the playoffs. He's good. He's not going nowhere. We're gonna make this playoff run.

We're gonna play the Warriors in the first round. So we have this whole game plan for Sacramento and the first year in our new arena. All Star Break hits and DeMarcus gets traded while he's on the podium asking questions and I'm like, what the funk you guys have just been telling me for the last three weeks to a month. He's not going nowhere. So DeMarcus gets traded. Fast forward. I talked to Bloody. I'm like, Bloody, I'm too old to try to rebuild, you know. I needed

to try to win, and he understood. He let me go. Katie goes down. I get an opportunity to come in and when I tell you, like I wasn't. I went from being at KFC one night to talk to you on the phone because I just got done working the Twins. I was like, You're like, hey, we need you in Chicago. I'm like, holy sh it. I catch a flight the next day and then get to Chicago and I played twenty five minutes. I'm like, oh shoot, I'm I'm back

in the NBA. Let's go, you know. So for that opportunity, to arise, and then Katie comes back and I get hurt the game Katie, So I never People don't know, like I never got a chance to play with Katie, like we were on the same team. But he was hurt and then he'd the first game back. I got hurt, and then I played sparingly in the playoffs. So but back to your point, I couldn't get over that sprained

ankle and a spring. I'm a football player. I played through everything, and that fucking spring ankle wouldn't get better. So it was just it was it was humbling, and and you know, we got a chance to win it, to win a ring as as a team, and it was a tremendous opportunity. But I was just like, it's getting time and and and you know, and that's why I wanted to ask, like it was my fourteenth ory, it was your fifteenth year, like when you start listening

to your body. Could I played a couple more years? Probably, But I was just I was ready to see what was next in my life. And and obviously you know you felt a similar way. Yeah, yeah, I mean, but but how lucky are we to make it that far so that we where we could actually say, okay, we know now it's time. Most players they before before that. I have to tell one quick story just for your listeners because it's one of my favorite NBA stories from coaching.

But you know, one of the things that you know that that I believe as as a coach, and I really learned this from Pop was, you know, involving family members um in anything that you can with it with team stuff is uh is really fun. It's it's just you know, so we always invite guys to bring their kids, their families on the plane if they want, and and so you probably know where I'm going with this. But so we had a game in San Antonio and uh,

we're staying out in the hill country the Hyatt. Uh we have a breakfast meeting, and you bring your boys to the breakfast meeting, the twins and everybody's having breakfast, and then you know we're gonna get the meeting started. And you you were like, coach, should I send the kids back? I'm like, no, no, they're good. They're good.

And so they's and they're they're hoopers right there. At that time, they were probably I'm guessing eight years old, seven years old, so they would you know, they would shoot around before practice and stuff, and they're hoopers. They love this stuff. So it was Mike Brown's scout. So I said, Mike, why don't you go through the through the matchups and he goes, all right, um, we're gonna change the starting lineup. You hadn't started the previous game.

And I'm sitting in the back just observing, so you're kind of sitting right in front of me with your boys. Mike Brown's beyond that. So Mike gets up. He goes, all right, we're gonna we'rena start tonight. We're gonna start Steph Clay, Uh, Matt, you're gonna start at the three, and you're gonna guard Kauai and your boys are the twins get up and they start going. They start pumping

their fists. They're like, yeah, yeah. It was one of my all time favorite favorite moments because that's really, you know, ultimately, that's what it's about. You know, you want to be able to enjoy everything with your family, and how cool is that, Like, you know, there were your boys watching this team meeting and hell, yeah, Dad's starting tonight. Yeah now that was that was the best experience obviously for me.

To be able to come to a team like that and just see how you were able to manage so many different stars and egos and personality and come along for the common goal. But outside of that, the kids ride was the best time. Like the chance that the people don't know, Like the kids flew on the plane, they were in the locker room, they were in our pregame breakfast meetings. Like you couldn't tell these guys they weren't on the Warriors, you know, I mean one game you let them. I want to say, we were in

the Western Finals against Houston. If I'm a mistaken or sit and they're shooting with Stephen Katie at the end of practice, like shooting three and like they were just blowing away. And so when we finally won the championship, like the Twins were up, I was sitting in the back just kind of taking it all in. The Twins are in the front row trying to hold the Katie got the m v P trophy. They wanted to hold that,

steph got the championship trophy. They were trying, like you couldn't tell the Twins that they weren't a part of that team. So that's why I wanted to make sure that you know, when I came back and got my ring, I got them rings, and these kids were on cloud nine. So I really, oh, I really personally, I never really I thank you, but I never got a chance to really thank you because, like you said that that was to me, that was a perfect exclamation on. Like my kids got to see me play, My kids got to

be a part of this special team. It was their favorite team. And then for them to kind of get rings when Dad got rings, it was just a perfect time to say goodbye. And I really owe a lot of that to you and obviously the WARS organization for accepting me back. So thank you very much for that. Coach. I really appreciate that. Oh, I appreciate the compliment. And and um, and I'll just say it was a pleasure to to coach you. Just your your competitiveness and your

toughness was it was important in our locker room. And and you know, the the the joy that the twins brought every day was was great stuff. And and Zaza's kids would come in and uh, you know, sometimes the kids would be having like a three on three game between David West's son and so we had we had a good group. But but I really learned that from Pop. You know, Um Pop was the first coach I ever

had who invited family on the plane. And so I remember taking my five year old son, my oldest on a road trip, and then a few weeks later, my three year old daughter on a road trip, and you know, she was so excited because she was like, you know, we get to sleep in the hotels, like yeah, and she's like, we're gonna get room service, We're gonna watch a movie. She's like, this is gonna be the best best night of my life, you know, and it's like,

I'll never forget that. And so for Pop to understand that as a coach, like how how much that meant to me? It meant It was so powerful that it was it became a no brainer for me when I became coach. Got to give the players that joy of seeing their kids in the same environment, and it's an amazing feeling. That's one thing that that that people to understand is is is championship teams are built at the top,

and it's two little things like that. Obviously, you need everything to be aligned and you need plenty of luck, but it starts at top with management and when I tell people when I play for the Words, you guys literally took You guys take care of all the players on your team. Have to do is obviously fall in line and you know, stay ready. But all you have to do is worry about basketball. You guys take care

of family. You guys take care of friends. You guys make it such a warm family environment that like we you want to go run through a wall for an organization like that, because I played for the Clippers my first year and we were practicing at a junior college where we had to keep the back door open to make sure people didn't break into our cars. You know, I mean, it's just like little ship. There's levels to this, and I think you guys did such an amazing job of just all you guys have to do is go

out and focus on basketball. We got everything else and then you know, you guys got rings for that. But back to you retiring from the game, You step into broadcast booth and then you wept into the front office of Phoenix during their runs. What was that transition like from obviously playing, I don't know if you knew you wanted to be a coach, you went to the front office first. But what was that change from being a player to moving into the front office and kind of

managing things behind the scenes. Well, I had a bridge, you know, doing TV for about four years before I got into management, and it was important for me to kind of step away from the grind. And so the TV gig with T n T was an incredible time in my life, you know, to be with my family at home and then I'd fly off and do one game a week. So it was kind of perfect. You know. I got just enough time away to keep my wife happy.

So I was out of the house for a couple of days, but plenty of time at home to do the things I wanted to do. And then after about four years, I just started feeling that itch to compete and to be involved. And I had this opportunity in Phoenix and and I took it. But you know, I was GM for three years, but I I knew deep in my heart that I wanted to coach and I didn't love being a GM. You know. I like being

on the court. I like being with the players, and I like the highs and lows of of winning and losing. Like if you're right in the thick of it, rather than watching from above and trying to make more big picture decisions. I'd rather be in the fight. So it was fun to watch the team. And we had a hell of a team. You were part of it, you know, with with Nash and grat Hill and an older shack older shack By Yeah by that time, and we had a couple of good runs. But it was not a

job that I excelled at. I was not a great GM, to be honest with you, correct me if I'm wrong. You were broadcasting during our We Believe times, right, didn't you? Weren't you broadcasting when we were playing Dallas? Yeah? I did the final game. So how loud was that arena? Because I tried to tell people because I went back to the championship and we were fortunate to be on that team, But I still felt like those we Believe crowds were the loudest crowds I've ever been a part of. Yeah,

I agree, I've told people that many times. That game six again Stallas, the closeout game was the loudest arena I've ever heard in my life. It was insane. It felt like they were shaking the arena like we came out to warm up and and the stands were already full.

Like normally when you go out to warm up, no one's really out there yet, you like when individual players the second they opened the door, the arena was filled and they were all standing as soon as we came out there for like the real team warm ups, like you it was there was an electricity in there, and there was we knew we were going to blow them

out like that. Home fan base was tremendous, you know, obviously transitioning to becoming the Warriors coach, but I kind of wanted to jump ahead a little bit, obviously having to leave the history of Oakland and Oracle behind and transitioning to obviously the amazing venue you guys have in San Francisco. What do you miss about those Oracle crowds? I always loved Oracle, even going way back to when

I was a player. There was just this energy in that building that didn't exist in every NBA arena, Certain arenas that just feels special, certain crowds that seemed to know the game and love the game. The Garden in New York feels that way to me, you know, despite the struggles of the teams over the last couple of decades. It's still special to go into the Garden. There's a sense that that there's a real basketball history and and

that the fans know the game. And that's how I always felt coming into Oracle, going to Toronto same way, there's this energy in the crowd in Toronto that's really fun to be a part of. Yeah, it's electric Seattle the Sonics when you know, playing the old Sonics teams Key was amazing. The Oracle has always been a special place.

And then obviously to have the run that we did and get to the finals and and you know, win a championship at home in seventeen and just feeling that energy and the joy of the fans was really amazing. That's special. So head coach of Golden State, your first crack Um replacing Mark Jackson, what was your philosophy and expectations Obviously coming into with a new young team, you start with two core stars and you find out, you know,

Draymond works itself into being a star. What were some of the ups and downs with that young Warrior team and how did you feel like you earned their trust? Well, I think our whole focus coming in was was let's respect what Mark has already built and what the team has already built. That was what fourteen fifteen was our first year. They had the Warriors have been in the playoffs the previous couple of years. They had a top

four defense in the league the previous year. Uh when when I became coach, so I'm looking at him like, this is a gold mine. You know this, This team is ready to win. They've already they've already become a damn good team. And so let's honor that. Let's respect that. And and that was our whole approaching our approaching camp was we're not coming in here to reinvent the wheel. We're coming in to help you with the foundation that you guys have already built, and let's grow it. Let's

get better from here. That was important because the players liked Mark and had great respect for him, and he had done an amazing job. He deserved the credit that he had been given. It was controversial when he was let go, So I thought that was the main thing we tried to do, was just hey, let's keep building this thing. And and here's a few areas where watching on tape, we think we can get better. But other

than that, like, let's let's keep rolling. We had Steph on the first season of the show and he said he personally felt like the first one was the best one for him. What was that first journey like? You know, obviously you being there as a player, you walk into an amazing situation fifteen you guys get there, What was

that first one like for you as a coach? Honestly, um it in terms of basketball, and I've had a lot of amazing moments in my career and been on championship teams, but clenching Game six in Cleveland and as a head coach might have been the best feeling that I've ever had in basketball because it's different. It's different like a lot of times as a player I was on those teams, I was a reserve. I might have had a good game here there, and but I didn't. I it wasn't me. I wasn't you know, the one

winning the championship. You know, as a player, um, so when you become a coach, it's even more so pronounced because you never touched the floor, right, you never take a shot, you never get a rebound. But what you do feel is this responsibility to the group that you're trying to help them win a championship, and so as a coach, it's a different vibe. Like you you didn't you didn't do anything yourself, but this group that you're

in charge of has accomplished their goal. And that's a special feeling, you know, in any kind of leadership role, when when the group you're in charge of has that success. It was probably the most gratifying moment of my my whole career. See, that's that's cool, And obviously I felt it not a much smaller scale, but you know, coaching the Twins now and we have one of the top teams in the country and seeing their excitement when they start to get stuff and understand and you know, we

run similar offenses to what you guys do. When I tell them every single night, the Warriors are gonna get everyone's best shot. You know, that's the same with my team because I coach him and everyone knows the Twins now every single night you have to understand how to play with a target on your back. You there's no let ups, there's no But when we finally start winning these championships and we see I think we're number eight or number nine in the whole country right now at

twelve years old, you know what I mean. But to see their excitement and know that I'm I don't shoot, I don't play defense, I don't do nothing on that court, but I'm helping them achieve their goals. So I can only imagine on the highest level, which is the NBA, the excitement an opportunity like that would bring for you. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's there's nothing like playing basketball. You know, once you're done, you can't play anymore. To be involved as a coach, to me is the next best thing.

But winning a championship as a coach is a feeling you can't describe because you you just feel responsible for so many people. You know that so much can go wrong, and if it does go wrong, you feel responsible for that too. But when everything clicks and and as it did that first year, oh man, amazing special feeling. How do you feel like your experience as a player with your seventy two and ten team We touched on this earlier and then the experience coaching the seventy three and

nine team prepared you for that? And did you see any similarities differences? The pressure not in night out and like I just said a minute ago, it didn't matter who you guys were playing every single night, you were going to get their best shot. In that ship alone is draining mentally and physically. So what was it like, obviously being a part of the player and then coaching a team that surpassed a record that no one ever

thought would be touched. Yeah, and I was maybe leading that charge thinking that nobody would ever beat seventy two, you know, having been through it as a player, I was like, no way. But our guys came off that championship in fifteen and they were so confident. You know, that's one thing when you win a championship, there's a deeper level of confidence that you now have. That year, I think we hadn't gotten to the stage of fatigue yet.

It was more excitement of oh my god, we're the best team in the NBA, We're the best team in the world. This is fun, you know. And uh so that was a similarity, just this this vibe of you know, nobody can touch us, you know, let's go dominate. And so I didn't really have to to say a whole lot. It was, you know, just just let them let them go. Um. The only thing I tried to do, was you know, down the stretch, you know, talk about you know, we're

not gonna We're not gonna do anything stupid. You know, we're not gonna go and push you guys forty four or forty six minutes in a game, you know, in order to chase a win that we don't actually have to have. And I tried to try to play it, you know, pretty conservatively. And and for the most part we did. Our minute totals were pretty low that year, but you know, there was there was definitely a feeling of of you know, nervousness that you know, somebody would

get injured and the whole thing would go off off track. Yes, so falling short in sixteen that season, uh, Lebron in the has got you guys to then landing one of the biggest free agent signings in the history of the game, Uh, picking up Kevin Durant, And it was just like, let's go. What was it like knowing that, I mean, obviously there

was a bunch of talks when it finally happened. Knowing that you're gonna be able to add one of the greatest players we've seen to an already amazing team, yeah, and and not not just an amazing player, but a player who was going to fit in perfectly with the way we already played. You know this, I mean Draymond Green has led us and assists for like five years in a row. He's our starting power forward. So we

just play basketball and and everybody makes plays. And watching Kevin over the years um in Oklahoma City, the most skilled guy in the league terms of shooting, passing, versatility, shot blocking, like it was gonna be such a seamless fit because of he was not ball dominant. You know, he didn't he didn't have to have the ball in his hands all the time, and of course neither did Steph. They were both perfectly willing to play off the ball.

So it was pretty incredible to watch that group together and one of the best teams in the history of the game, one of the most talented, and to watch them on the floor when when we were really clicking was just beautiful, special, absolutely special. Seventeen. You get a

ring eighteen and then how hard was it? You know, you guys are at the top of the hill and you've been there as a player, you know how mentally draining it is, physically draining is how hard was it to see you guys go for that three p nineteen and then guys start to get injured. Yeah, I think you know, you sort of feel it if you're in the league long enough. Every year injuries play a role

when we want our first title. And fifteen Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving were both out, So we've been on the other end of it too, so that you know that you just sort of go into it as a coach or as a player and you understand that sometimes things don't go well, sometimes they do and you regardless, you just have to respond and play your best. And I was as out of that nine team team as I was of any of our championship teams, just from the standpoint of they fought, They fought and almost took

it to seven. You know, um, if Clay doesn't doesn't tear as a c L, I think you guys still win if play doesn't get hurt. I mean that's my personal opinion. I think we win that game six because Clay was Clay was on fire and looking we're at home and and if it goes seven, who knows, and and so, but Toronto was great and they deserved it, and great respect for for their team and their coaching staff, and they were fantastic. Um, but I walked away from that series as proud of our group as as as

any group that that I've ever been around. They were they were amazing, They were awesome. Speaking of that that series, how hard was it managing Kevin wanting to come back? But still you guys, trying to be cautious as you possibly can't managing you know, obviously his injury and knowing how many years he still had to play. How hard of coaching decision, manag decision, doctor, decision, his decision. Did that play with you, guys? Yeah? I mean it was.

It was a really tricky situation, um. And what we tried to do was just to make sure we covered all our bases and and to trust our training staff, trust the surgeon, and then also bring in you know, Kevin's own medical people and make sure that everybody who

was good with him playing before we put him out there. Um. In hindsight, UM, I wish we hadn't, because now we know what what happened toward towards a c L, I mean towards Achilles, and and so UM, you know, I think we we I think we handled it the way we thought UM was was the best way. With with you know, Kevin and his representation and their their own medical team putting their heads together with with our group, we felt like we were, you know, in the clear. But it was it was a it was a stark

reminder that, you know, medicine is not necessarily math. You know, it's not just either yes or no. There's a gray area in everything. And so when Kevin went down, I was just my first thought was, oh, man, he he re injured his calf. And you know, the thought was, you know, what a bomber. He's put in all this work and and there's the there goes the calf. And it didn't It didn't hit me until we walked in at halftime and I saw everybody's faces. I saw the doctors,

I saw a trainer, and I saw Kevin. I was like, oh, ship, like this this was an achilles and it's devastating and and you know it was Kevin was heroic and in terms of you know, trying to be out there on the floor with his teammates, UM he got off to a great start too. He came out, he was cooking, he he was he was on fire right away, and it seemed like everything was good and UM, but it's yeah, it's one of those ones that that will forever look

back on and and go, you know what. Um, we we wish we could have that one back, but not not from a not from a process standpoint. I think the process we handled um in the right way. But I think I learned from that and that even if the process is sound, UM, you know, just go overboard, Just go overboard. And don't you know, I would love to have that one back. And but again, hindsight, right, we're with the home stretch right now, almost finished up. Um,

Kevin decides that he wants to leave. How did that hit you personally? Obviously as a coach, you know what the business, but how did how did the organization feel when he felt it was time for him to move on? Didn't It didn't surprise us. We all had a sense that Kevin probably looking to move on and and take on a new challenge. It's been here three years and won two championships and been finals M v P twice and it was just for in his own personal career,

was time for a new challenge. And and we all totally respected that. You know, I always feel like players should control their own destiny, and especially through free agency. And you know, once your contracts of every every player has the right to go wherever he wants. And and so there were no hard feelings at all. In fact, it was the opposite. It's like, man, thank you for

thank you for everything you've done. You you helped bring us two championships and almost another one, and and you brought an incredible amount of joy to Oracle every night, and our fans got to watch one of the best basketball teams on Earth. My feeling was thank you and good luck and you know, get healthy. Yeah. Absolutely, So you came into the coaching space a lot luckier than most coaches. So you came in in a championship your first year, you have a hell of a five year run.

Last year, a little bit of reality sets in. You know, you guys go to a new arena, there's a lot of excitement, players already hurt. Uh steph ends up going down. So it kind of becomes a development year. And I was talking to Draymond a lot that season, like, hey, man, keep your head. I I can see you're about to snap. You know, what was it? Like coming in at the highest level and winning and having that run and then kind of coming back down to earth last season and

you know, your two stars are out. Draymond is still in. But just a really a season of developing these young guys. It was a slap in the face for sure. The injuries to Uh, to Steph and Clay, we're just killers, obviously you're talking. You're talking about you know, two of the best guards in the league and probably the two best shooters in the world. So you know, when Steph went down in the third or fourth game, whatever it was, it was apparent pretty quickly like this is this is

now a development. You're got to play these young guys and try to help them get better. And um, you know, a little perspective is uh is usually what happens um in life. You know, nobody, nobody gets to win every year. And um, so we had we had been on this incredible run and it now is our turn to get smacked in the face. And and now it's time to get up off the bat and see if we can uh, you know, get have another run and us we'll see I think obviously you don't like to ever see anyone

get hurt, but I think it was needed. You know what I mean. You guys had such a tremendous run. I think dre clay and and Steph needed a break. And I mean those guys are probably in that five year span, probably played more minutes possibly than you know, some of the guys in NBA history, and as far as a five year span. So those guys went on the hell of a run. Will rests. So I think I speak for all of us when we say we're

excited to see what you guys come back with. I'm gonna hit you with a couple of quick hitters and we'll be done. One player in your era, you wish you would have got a chance to play with Patrick Ewing. I loved I loved ings game and is competitive desire. He was incredible. Thoughts on the Basketball Hall of Fame class arguably one of the greatest classes. You know, I rest in peace, Kobe, but you know you've got a chance to play with the young Timmy and know him well.

And then Kevin Garnett. I don't know my history well enough, but there there can't be many classes more decorated than this one. UM three three All time grades. UM maybe the three best players of their UM shared era, you know really when it comes down to it, But yeah, that was um devastating. You know, learning of Kobe's death was a you know, one of those moments that you you'll remember your whole life because of the shock of it and and feeling feeling that shock with our whole team.

UM was devastating, And it still doesn't even seem real. But you know, this this fall with with Kobe and KG and Tim all going into the Hall of Fame together, it'll it'll feel you know, from a basketball standpoint, it feels right. But the fact that Kobe is no longer with us obviously just takes it. Takes it and completely

excuse everything. It still doesn't make any sense. Absolutely. UM. Your thoughts on cannabis and CBD use of professional athletes, Well, it's funny because I spoke out about this a couple

of years ago. You know, I had my own uh health issues with my back surgery that went wrong, and and so I spoke I was getting prescribed all these opioids constantly for pain, and and you know I'd read about this stuff like I'm not I'm not taking this stuff, this oxy cotton or vic it in or whatever, and it just seems so insane, and so, you know, I was. I spoke out about the you know, the the athletes should be allowed to use cannabis, and uh, you know how we like to play music during our our warm

ups in practice. So I can't remember what song. There was some song about smoking dope or something, and so so our our video guy puts that song on. JaVale McGhee is running down laughing, looking at me like like you know, like he's puffing. Everybody's everybody's cracking up because I've made this statement. Meanwhile, I had literally tried it for my for my pain, for my back stuff and had no success with it. So and unfortunately it didn't work.

But because I spoke out on it, all of a sudden, like I got this reputation as as the pot guy, like oh there's you know, like or whatever the players took, they got a good kick out of it. Anyway, So I remember, I mean I remember seeing you. It hurt my heart because I remember when I was hurt in the Portland series, like how uncomfortable you would lay for a second, you would sit for a second, you would have to stand up for a second, and you would lay for a second. I'm just like, I can't imagine

what you were going through through that time. And and I was to the point where I didn't want to cross player coach boundaries, but I was gonna say, Coach, let me go on my badgroup quick. I got something for you. But it was, you know, it was a little I think I was a little bit before my time. But I mean, I remember the pain you were in.

I particularly in Portland. I remember because I was in the locker room icing the whole time, and you couldn't literally sit in the same position for more than two minutes. Like you would try to lay for a second. You try to sit for a second, you have to get up and stay and then you would have to get up and walk around. I was so close that day to being like, coach, I got a joint for you. Man,

it's gonna change everything. Anyway. Last question, um historical anybody who were five people you would love to sit down and have dinner with, dead or alive. Oh man, that's a really difficult question. That's a good question. It's a good way to end it. Yeah, I'm a huge sports fan growing up. I was I was into every sport, and I suppose I would want to speak with some of the people who kind of laid the foundation for what sports are today. Jackie Robinson would definitely be one.

I would love to to to hear his story what it was really like, um, and being being such a big baseball fan. Um, Babe Ruth would be another. Like, you know, he he was the he was the king, and he was you know, the MG of his era. And uh so I would from a from the baseball world,

those two guys for sure. Um. From a historical standpoint, I don't know, this is a tough one because you know, there's so much that that I'm learning and that I want to learn about American history, and so you kind of want to go back in time to our founding fathers and see how, you know, how can we how can we have these parallel universes of you know, pursuit of happiness in life and liberty and and here's this component of of slavery, right, Um, how do you reconcile

all that? Who would we ask about that? You know, Thomas Jefferson, You know, I know Jefferson had he owned slaves, right, and he helped write the Constitution and I think going back in time during the course of history, there are a lot of questions about this country that that I would want to ask and uh, you know, probably probably starting with with with the people who were who were putting the putting it all in place, and you know, what was what was what was the thought process? And

I don't know, that's only three. I've only given you three. Two. I gotta give you two more, don't I. What I'm doing is I'm showing you how limited my outside activities and interests are. I should be naming like some artists or musicians or not at all. Not this, this is your this is your dinner table, this is my is

my show, every whoever you want. Yeah, probably Lincoln for that reason, you know, President Lincoln for that very reason, because he would be able to bridge the education gap between what happened and uh, you know, late seventeen hundreds with the founding of our country to all the way up to the Civil War. Like I'd love to hear that that conversation and that viewpoint. And then, um, who gets the last seat at your table? The last seat? I'll give you one. That's a little offbeat, but James

Baldwin the author. I just read a fascinating book about him called Begin Again, and by a writer named Eddie Gloud, who was beautiful book. And Baldwin had the most unique look at the Civil Rights era because of his proximity to it and his brilliance as a writer, and his friendship with so many of the key figures. He was so deep and powerful as a human being. Just his humanity. Knowing his story and learning his story, UM has been UM, really really powerful. If you get a chance. Um. There's

a documentary about him. Well, the book is called Begin Again, Begin Again. Where is it? There? I go, here's the book, brilliant book, Begin Again by Eddie Cloudy's a professor at Princeton Um. But there's a documentary about about James Baldwin that I highly recommend. It's it's called I Am Not Your Negro and it's about his relationship with Mega Evers, Malcolm X and Dr King during the Civil Rights era

and all three men were murdered and Baldwin. Baldwin was writing throughout the sixties about the Civil Rights era and here he's watching this great hope that he has for his country, and then these hopes are violently turned back and his own evolution as a writer, as a human being, and what he went through as a black American. It's powerful stuff and one of the key figures during the Civil Rights movement who are young people should should read

more about and read his his his stuff. I put it in my notes as you were speaking, so I'm definitely gonna check it out. Coach Kerr. We appreciate your time. Thank you very much, as an honor to have you sit down. Good luck this season. We're excited to see what a well rested Golden State Warriors team looks like. In a thank you, Matt, that was really fun. You're doing a great job and all enjoy hearing hearing from you and say, hi, did the boys you have a

new Do you have a new son? Right, Ashton? I got a little one here. I got at Ashton's twenty two months. Yeah, a little man. So I started all over. So it's been a blast. Oh man, man, I'll bet you. I'll bet he's beloved by those twins. They probably take good care of him. This guy runs the house already. A twenty two months I'm in trouble. Yeah, I'll bet, oh bet. Thanks for having me. That was great. Really

appreciate it. That's a wrap all the smoke. You can catch us on Showtime Basketball YouTube in the I Heart platform. This is All a Smoke, A production of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime