Shannon Sharpe | Ep 21 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Podcast | SHOWTIME Basketball

Famer been motivating me on this media side. Somebody I look up to, my brother, the o G big homie, Uncle Shannon Sharp Man Man thanks for having me on and has a boisterized like Jack. We just had a little we just had a little pre shooting discussion. So he asked for some low like people see everything on the internet. Asked me for some hand us some jerks. He said, Mat, you got this bullshit? I mean, I mean it fit's my complexion that he needs something a

little stronger from people. What you used I did? I did use that jerking like water. And then he had to me some criscos find somewhere in the middle. But Man, thank you for being here. Man. We appreciate who's he is. It is. It is Shannon Sharp, the Fox Sports analyst. Here, uncle here. It all depends. I just hope at the end of the day with this air is at some point time because I know it's gonna air, I still help, but listen to keep Let's get into it. So we

were talking to before. I mean, you were a Hall of Famer obviously Superstar before Superstars win the fish Bowl. So now you're a lot of people don't know how great of a football player. They know you for what you're doing on undispute it to talk about that a little bit. It is because I meet people a lot of time, and people who walk up to me and ask me, how do I know so much about football? And I just like, you know, I studied the game

a lot. I don't. I don't, I don't. I don't tell them that I actually playoffs, Like I studied the game a lot. You know, I watched football, and you

know I've been around it for a long time. But it is, I mean, most of the people don't know me because I've been retired sixteen years now, and so people don't sixteen years a long time, considering that everything now got people are watching it on their on their phone, they get all their information from different But for me, I don't really know how I would have handled it because everything under microscope. You look at guys Lebron and k D or you look at Brady and everything is critique.

We have all these debate shows where we talked about every move, every drible, every possession is critique. I don't know how I could have handled because I you know, I like my privacy. I've never been a guy that liked to be out in the public side. Um I only went to one party in college. Um, I didn't hang out really. I went out maybe once every other month when I wasn't and then when when I was played.

So I kind of like, you know, being to myself and I don't want cameras in my face all the time and knowing everything that you say now and what I tell guys now when you leave your home sometimes being your home, you gotta automatically believe that you're being filmed, you're being recorded, and so you must be on your behavior at all times. How do you think that would

have changed? Though, like you said, it wasn't only in your profession on the field, but it was in your personal life, to day to day grocery store trips, whatever. But how how do you think that would have affected you, especially seeing you wanted to be so private. Man, it's been tough because I told a lot of people know I didn't want to sign up. And that's one of the reasons why I never lived in the city where I played, because I wanted some privacy. I didn't want

to be Shannon Sharp all the time. I didn't want to go to the grocery store and ask anything about what the Bronco is gonna be like this season, or winning the Super Bowl. I just wanted to go and sometimes could go because I moved to Atlanta and some people, if you were really die hard fan, they knew who I was early on. But as we started to win, more started going to Super Bowls. I was on TV. I became a better player, people started to recognize me.

But the way I explained myself to people, guys, I said, I'm a normal guy with an extraordinary job, and people that know me, that see me behind off the camera, they see how, like, dude, you're really normal and I am, um, and I like it like that but to have a camera and everything to get fatigued and analyzed. I'm glad. Can you imagine if we had cameras like when growing up in high school? Because tweets that guy said five ten years ago, it's coming back to bite them in

the book. So now you just you learned from others mistakes. And they say, you know why a wise man learned from other mistakes who learned from its own? So you see what has gotten people into trouble and then you try to stay clear that Yeah, you know, I like that. What was did you see yourself talking about football post career? Like when did you start getting into the endless space? Because we know you was always a talker. I was the Look if we didn't play good, I say we

didn't play good, we were terrible. I was bad the office and live was bad. Receiving what bad. Defense was bad. But that they did they did. People don't want to hear. Look, they don't want to hear that normal coach. Now, I understand you gotta sometimes you gotta be politically correct, but it's at some point in time you got to tell the truth. Today, we just weren't good, Shannon just worn't good. You know I didn't. I couldn't hold onto the ball.

I missed these blocks at the point of attack. Just be honest and and people appreciate that now. I think that's what kind of made me a very good leader, because I think for leadership also, you have to know each guy. You know, basketball, You've got twelve guys in the locker room. Every guy's different. They come from different backgrounds, and so different things will motivate them, Different things will tick guys off. Some guys you can confront. Some guys

you confront, they're gonna bust you in the mouth. Yeah, some guys you gotta pat them on the back. Some guys you gotta be funny Joe Willer and so for me, And that's kind of how it was in the locker room. But I think the media kind of like, you know what that guy's gonna give us, coaches, still, let's go as she was gonna tell us. And I would, I would,

I would be as honest as I possibly could. And you know a couple of times about like you can't be like, well, they watched the game, they with us all that week, suthing so did ever caused problems in the locker room with your teammates. Just you're so fun coming in your honesty, it really cause a problem. But they know I was on it. But I would tell the guy, but you tell you steal it. Yeah, you would tell them to their face. Yeah, you have yourself for kind of but you leave by example, so it's

easy to do that. It is. And the guys saw how hard I work. But for me, when I played those fourteen years, nothing else mattered. Football was the most important thing other than breathing. Football is most important. Not family, not kids, not brother, not mom, not sister. And I make no apologies for what I was able to accomplish

in my fourteen years. Nah. And then he looked. During my Hall of Fame speech, I told my kids, you know, because I would get the kids would come a couple for a couple of weeks during the summer, and I promised I'd take them to the amusement park and you know, six Flags. And I had every intentions of doing that. But after running for two hours on the track, after lifting for another two hours, I was exhausted. And and

I know at the time they didn't understand. All they know is that Daddy had just told me another lie. He said he was gonna take it, and I didn't. But as they got older, hopefully they understood it. This is how you go to college. This is why you got the car. That was all that. There are sacrifices you have to make. And I tell people, the greater the player, the more selfish that he is. So if you think, oh, man, he ain't, no, no, not, Oh he's a team guy, Okay, he might be. He's a

team guy. But there are things you have to miss. You have to miss some recitals, you have to miss some Black football games. You got practice, you got meeting. You gotta work on your craft, and that requires you to be selfish. And a lot of people don't understand that. But I don't make any apologies for what I was able to accomplish because my whole focus with my brother and I was growing up. We grew up in a

thousand score foot send a block home cement floored. The floors was just like what we have in this here, no paneling, and I could look up at night and I can look through the tin roof and I could see the stars. And my whole purpose was my brother and I was to get my grandmother out of that environment. That was the only thing that battered to me. It wasn't about you know, Shan, if you make a lot of money, you'll be famous. I didn't care anything about fame,

and I don't really care to this day. I don't care about money. I love what money gives me access to. That's what I love about money, Not the money itself, the tangible product that money. I love what it allows me to do, it what it was allowed able to allow me to do for my family. So because for my grandmother to go to bed for sixty six years and have it rain and not get wet, that was my whole focus. That drove me, That drove my brother, and so all the things that we talked about. Man,

we gotta get Granny out of here. We gotta do this all the time that I'm in college, and you know, she was sending had my sister to wrap it up five bucks in newspaper and send it to me. In nineteen eighties. I left my grandmother's house in eighty six UM and I had two bags, two grocery bags, Pigli wiggly bags, um from my luggage. I didn't have a suitcase, had two bags with all my belonging, and I was going to Savanna State, and and and uh nineteen eighty seven,

I was a sophomore. And I remember because we had community phones, I didn't have a phone in my room. And I remember walking down in the hall. It was all quiet. I said, you know what, I'm gonna call my grandmother. Nobody here, so I get on the phone. Call collect operator comes on the phone. Yes, I said, I like the place. A collect call to Mary Porter from Shannon Sharp. Operator comes on. Uh, this is a collect call to Mary Porter from Shannon Shark. Will you accept?

My grandmother said no, she said I can't pay the fifty dollar phone. But I got right now and hung the phone up. I remember walking down the hall and tears started to roll up in my eyes. Roommates in the room, so I can't let him see me cry. And I'm just let go let on the bed, and I'm looking up at the scene and I'm just staring now. Remind you, my grandmother got on the at seven months old. My grandmother got on the train, come get me from Chicago.

Two months old. Three months excuse me, my dad came and got me back. At seven months Grandma came and got me back at two. So was that his mom or my mom my mom's mom. So from from the two years on, my grandmother was everything. I slept with the very bed with my grandmother until I was fifteen. I didn't get out of my grandmother's bad until my brothers left and went to college. So I had slept with my grandmother. So I know it broke her heart to tell me no, because when my brother went to school,

my my sister's eight years older than me. My sister's dating. It's just me and her. It's just her and I and my nephew at the time, my sister's son. And so we play a game, all my other friends going out. I'm going home to take care of Granted, we play a basketball game, my friends going out on Saturday Friday night. I'm going to take care of granny. So I know what that did to her to tell me no. I can't accept this call because I got a fifty dollar phone bill I can't pay right now. So I'm laying

and I'm thinking. The only thing that I'm thinking, well, I'm leaving. I'm I'm going to NFL. I'm gonna take it us. That was the only thing that mattered, and when I got to the league, the only thing that mattered was football, not women. And it was like, look, can you be number two? Can you help me be a number two? Everybody says they can handle being numbered too, until you actually you are number two. It sounds good. Man. You know, Shannon Sharp is interested to me and he's

gonna be you know, we're gonna date. Okay, but just so you know, practice studying tape, working out the way I eat. Yes, yes, and he couldn't handle it. Okay, no harm, no file, I'm not mad at you, but please don't be mad at me for the way I am upfront and honest. Talk to us about your grandmother. Seemed like she was everything. And I saw a quote that kind of summarized and you learned everything good and bad for me, either your grandmother or your brother. Talk

to us about that, man, my grandmother. Man, Look, my grandmother had nine kids, so she raised her nine and raised my mom's three. And I can assure you she loved my mom three more than she loved her own kids. So I remember when my grandfather died in nineteen seventy seven, my mom um, I wanted to take my brother my sister was. My sister was seventeen, so my sister was able to make her own decisions. She wanted to take my brother not back, and my grand said no. She said,

I've raised them this far. I got it now for me. I remember, it's funny how I'm playing this back in my mind. My grandfather died. I was eight years old. I can tell you everything he's ever said to me, berbad him. My grandmother lived four. I was forty three years old when my grandmother passed. I can tell you almost everything Burbad and what she's ever told me in my forty three years of existence. I can tell you every time she was happy, every time she was mad,

everything my grandfather tould tell my brother. Now he says, boys, I don't care. He and you know, oh, in the South, they call you boy. They didn't never call you by your name. Say boy, I don't care what you've become. Just never have to look at me and your grandma say I'm sorry. So for me, I never wanted to have I wonder where Shannon Hills, I wonder where Sterling Ills.

That was our mind said, never do anything to cause my grandmother pain because he was going through enough pain living to an environment that she lived in, raised in us how she raised us um And so for me, man, we spent I spent many a night thinking, because when you like, when you win, you in the environment that you're in, you're like. I never thought, is anybody else living like this? I just thought it was natural that

I drank well water. I thought that was natural. I thought it was natural that that I had to go outside to go to the bathroom. Until I was twenty, I didn't know that everybody else had a shower, everybody else had out there like because everybody I knew that was the same thing. I never spent the night at someone else's house until I was probably until I was grown out on my own. I never had anybody come stare at my house other than family. Never spend never

spent the night because they couldn't afford to take another person. Novel. The thing was that we didn't have we didn't have a bathroom. And so for me, you know, I ragged everybody just like I racked. But now can you imagine if that would have got out that I didn't have getting on plement I had, I had never made it here because I'd have been fighting every day you got no bathroom, take that with you. And so to watch her and how she worked every single day going to

work from seven or three. She worked at the nursing home. My grandmother worked at the very nursing home. She's the last couple of years she lived at the very nursing home. That provided a lot of the income that we had growing up. And one of the women, the ladies that she was taking care of, she ended up being a roommate man. She taught my brother now, she taught us hard work. She taught us discipline. You know. We had a saying down south and said, you work from Kank

to kan. When you left to go to work, you can't see the sun ain't up, and when you got home the sun was already going down. You can't see. But working those twelve hours a day, I mean I got a W two from nineteen seventy seven. I was working from the time I was like five or six years old, working twelve hours a day. I remember working we work. I made five bucks a day, made two fifty for working a half a day on on on Saturday,

for twelve hours. I'm six seven years old. I don't know very many six seven years old right now that their parents would even think about letting them go out there and work in the field and do manual labor. But from cropping the backup, picking up peak cans, clipping to onions tomatoes, I did it all bill Hey, and people look at me like, so that's where this body came from. But it hardened me. I tell people all time, the easiest job I ever had was playing professional football.

They're gonna hold on. First of all, you're gonna give me a scholarship to go play a sport, and then you tell me I can make millions of dollars. Try working on the field for five dollars the day and didn't tell me if you like that. So she taught us hard work. I mean, my grandmother loved the fish. Um. One of the worst weapons I got in my life is that we were going fishing. All my cousins were coming over, that they were over, and so me I went went the ditch, found his great spot. So I

was digging baits base. We called nightcrawlers jump whatever you want to call him. Yeah, they call works. We got we got some name from we gotta jumping jacks. Jumping jack. He looked up jack. So I'm one of the worst weapons I got in my life. So I um milk jug had cut the top of it off, and um man, it was loaded. My grandmother got home from work and my grandfather loads us up in the truck, all me, my brother, my cousins, and we go fishing. We're going fishing.

And she said, Shannon, let me get them baits left. Not my ain't I don't know. I was the only one that really they were bull driving crab. I said, no. I told my grandma noe told I could have been no more to bout seven, babe. Look my my grandfather. Really, my grandfather was disciplined. But if you really wanted to tell your brot up let my grandma say, Bernie them boys man stacks, I said, And my grandma said, Barney that boys said, he ain't gonna give me them baits. Lord,

have mercy? Was it? What was it? The belt? Extensive card man? You know they hit you with whatever switch my grandfather was having him. My grandfather wasn't that tall, but he was like my grandfather was probably like five maybe five a five nine, but he like sixty solid wide. Back I needed a cell phone back then, so I could have called them folks. Was it was very different.

But after that, after that point that was that was that you know, they didn't you know, people like maybe you could look at it like that, but I didn't. I don't ever think I got a whipping that I didn't deserve. Some of the stuff, A lot of stuff I blamed on my brother, you know, and he would get whip because he was the oldest. So he's supposed to know better, he's supposed to keep me from doing it. And I was like, okay, you know, if I break

this glass three years he's three years older now. And then my brother, we got a very unique relationship because it's really not like brother brother. He's more like my father, and so he I really never looked at him like my brother to this day, still still to this day, is that we don't have like a typical brother brother relationship. It's more like father son. And so anything any decision that I've ever needed to make, I've always talked to him.

Um he was in school, he would come back and see because the decision at first, Um, I was property eight the first year property hit nineteen six, UM, and so I was gonna go to the military. I was going down the next day to go take the tests for the airports airports. I was going to the military. My brother left school at the University of South Carolina and he came home. He said, Uh, the Savanna State

still have that scholarship. I said, yeah. Coach Davis told me. Um, he said, if I ever you know, if I ever want to come to Savantal State, he says, go. He says, uh, go to Savantal State for one year. And if you don't like it, Um, you could always say, hey, I went in college. Wasn't from me, He says, no, I'm not asking you to go, I'm telling you to go. So that was really the first time that my brother that at this junk, I'm seventeen year of age. Uh,

he's twenty. That was really the first time that he had raised his voice at me since we got like you know, and uh so I could tell, but it was it was hurting him because he knew how much talent I had, and he's like, he about go squandered this talent going to the military. Um, and somebody's gonna miss out on the great opportunity. And it was the great and so every decision that I've made since there is that I've always run it by him to this to this day. You know I'm serious about you. Uh,

it's not if you meet my mom. You need to meet my brother. You need to meet my sister. Now, my sister, I I might be closer than my brother. I I talked to my sister every day. I've talked to my sister every day on the phone since nine every day. If I don't call her, if I don't call, if I don't call about three o'clock, she'll call me if everything okay. Just hadn't hear from me all day. I was just you know, making sure everything's okay. Little

sister and big sister. I'm the youngest, she's the oldest, she'll be. She she's eight years older than me, five years old than my brother. My brothers three years older than me. So we're close. We're we're very very close. Um. It wasn't always like that, because you know, I was annoying my sister's age. You know, you want to date and I want to know everything and see what's going on.

Because I would tell that was that was my that was my leverage because see my grandfather knew I would tell so he always wanted to push me to go along with him because, yeah, I would tell if they did something they weren't supposed to be doing. So my aunts learned early on we could bribe Shanna get him. My sister didn't learn that, so when she wouldn't give me what I want, I would tell to tell my grandmother.

Livy came and chick, that's oute of school today. We used the stage bro, so she got the whole day. So I would tell I would I would listening to the door. I hear my aunts because at the time it was like ten of us in a thousand square foot so I had, you know, for my four aunts, my sister, my brother, not my grand my brother, myself, my grandparents. So I'll beat to the door to listen to be talking about boys. Mm hm oh, somebody gonna try to sneak out, Okay, so I go. Nobody, put

your hand down. Let me tell you if y'all don't like us, now you talk about real. Matter of fact, my grandfather don't bulled joy. He wasn't all about that. Um. I was about five and we're on the front porch and my grandfather cause the front portraits like right here, and my grandfather bed and the bedrooms right there, and his brother thump me. Now, my grand there there are certain things you don't know about that. There are certain

things my grandfather didn't like. My grandfather didn't like for you to thump somebody on the head and said that you make them thick head and they wouldn't learn. So he kept yeah, that's my grand They believe that, you know, old people believe that he throwed me again. And I oh, stop, I said, stop, Uncle Oliver. He thought me again. I heard my grandfather get about the bed. My grandfather came out there and looked tan as I. He said, if you thought that, boy, at one more time, I'll blow

your brains out. My grandfather my uncle got in the car and never came back. When my grandfather died, he wouldn't even go into church. Wow, my grandfather was a matter of fact. He didn't play. He didn't all that joke in and Kiki kid. He wasn't about that. Um. And I think that's where like you know, where you're staying with me? You know, I wonder I wouldn't have shadow like me. I wonder you know you you know, for the most part, if you don't know. I'll tell you.

I don't fool with you. Like when I first met stats Well and him talking not so much on came off camera. I can rock with him, I said, because he really like me. Ain't all about that Kiki kid all about that? Then for the camera to being bro, if I don't mess with you, I don't mess with you. I won't put on a great show for the camera. But wants the camera click on his phone, Yeah, on my phone. If I with you, I'm gonna carry on the conversation. I'm gonna be in a agent. But if

I don't, I don't. So that's that's kind of how we grew That's kind of how we grew up. Is that just be honest with someone. Um. And then my grandmother, like I said, raising to do what she did, to take raise her nine and then take my mom's three and to get us out. And because the greatest compliment that my grandmother it wasn't that she had two boys, two grand boys that played in the NFL. The greatest compliment my grandmother got received is that Mary, you did

an unbelievable job with those boys. That was her greatest That was her crowning achievement, not getting to the NFL, but the way how amiable work. Yes, sir, no, sir, yes, ma'am, No, ma'am sure, Mary, I saw them boys and it's still yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. Here were you know? And it's funny is that when when people, when old, people get things in their head, they can't let it go. My brother and I we're in the NFL and we're at the height, we're making millions.

We were getting my grandmother money and she would still having us used to go buy stuff on credit. Mm hmm. I'm like, granted, why, but that's how she was conditioned. She never had enough money to go to pay for everything in full, so she got used to even that. Granted, you got a thousand dollars and you put fifty dollars on credit. Why, But that's what she knew. That's all

she knew. And so for me to go home and I'll be leading, you know, I would like, I was like, I would always tell her couple after I got old enough, I would get a hotel room. She's like, because I stayed to my groom even I was in the NFL. I had kids, I had a ferrari had a Mercedes, I had everything. Part I was remember laying there, I was, I was live in the bed one night, I was just laying them like, man, I got kids, I got a Ferrari, I got a Mercedes. And I was staying

in the room and I ground my house. I don't make no sense. Your mass up out of here and go get me a house. I called me and said, man, look here, I'm moving to Atlanta. I said, you need to have a real estate agent to meet me up there. Uh so I can find me a place. But just to go home. I mean. I would remember I would come home and she'd be laying in the room. I wouldn't tell I'll tell live, don't tell grand I'm coming home, because if something came up, she would get really worried

if I wasn't able to make us. I don't tell Grant I'm coming and I come in, old man, she would get It was just such a great it was. It was. It was. It was a wonderful relationship because iould just go back and I laying the room and laying the bed with her, like get your big old self out of my bed, you gonna break my bed down. And I pretear like, yeah, I'm gonna break it down, but you're gonna buy a new one. But we just

had an unbelievable relationship. And I tell people this. When she died, a part of me died too, because I'm I'm I was, I'm never I was never the same after that. You know, it's funny to say that because I was grandmother baby too, and I didn't know we had so much in comment. So my grandmother had nine kids and she took my mama three, me and my two sisters and raised That's the same way. And my only goal and only on the two houses I've ever built was from one from my grandmother and one from

my mama. So I noticed feeling feeling. There's nothing like people like, do you feel you know a lot? I've got na Do you feel your mom, you know, neglected you and you said the best things you ever did. You gotta make a decision. You're living on the South Show of Chicago with two boys. Do you think they have a better chance being with your grandparents and rule South Georgia or with you having to work every day and they're gonna have to be home alone. What do

you think? You gotta make a decision something. Sometimes the best decision does not involve you, and it takes a real it takes a real person to understand that that was the best. The best decision that my mom possibly could have made was to send us to rule South Georgia. She knew he was gonna get you know, we're gonna be eating no steak or anything like that. We're gonna be eating a lot of you know, a lot of possum and a lot of rad coup. But that's over.

That's a cool suit. Yeah, you have to make that thing. You have to get you know something. You get your baker, you know, and cut him up. Get you some Bill Pepper, some onions. You know. You make that thing. Not the right put him in the oven. About the hoy would half two hours? She supposed to make it fall off the bone right now? Tastes like she got one of the freezer. Right now. It's game. It's like, yeah, yeah,

it's game. But you grow up and you don't you know, you eat that, You eat uh turtle and you eat turtle legs. I mean, yeah, roll kill man. If we hear a raccoon or squirrel or a rabbit or something home, Oh you think you're gonna die in the ditching. The clean him up. My grandma ain't a boy. Y'all need to go out there and get a messal squirrel. You know that's what they talked. It wasn't a mess. Oh, we called him mess of fish today. Boy, you know, y'all need to go out that. My brother go get

that get that gun. And you know, if you're from the South, you hand a gun. It was never it was nothing. You know. It never dawned on me that you weren't spoke to leave a loaded gun around until I got grown in like you know, that was a no note. Every gun in my grandfather's house was loaded. It never man, do you imagine if you grab that gun. I wish you would. I wish It never dawned on me that guns weren't supposed to be loaded around kids.

All the guns were loaded, and we knew what every last one of them was, but it never donned on us to go touch it. It never done. When my grandfather passed away, my brother would go hunting and shoot raccoon, shoes, squirrels. Man, that was some of the best eat my grandma father things up mother frown man, that was some good old band.

That was some good old speaking of speaking of your brother, though I know I know how much you mean to you, Like what did what did you feel in the pressure, Like your brother was one of the best to ever do it. Did you feel any pressure in his shoes? I welcomed it. Every every everybody. Everybody can't handle that. Now now I have a son. He wanted no parts of that. He didn't want to comparison because he tried to play football and your dad with a call that

or you're not he don't want he didn't want that. See, I didn't live in my brother's shadow. I embraced it because I thought, like you said, he was like a father. It never dined on me because he was three years older than but I could not run him, or I couldn't. I couldn't beat him in basketball one on one. Yeah, yeah, that was there. But I also knew, Okay, I'm playing against somebody much older than me. The kids my age and a couple of years older, they stood no chance.

There's no chance of beating me at anything. And so for me, like I tell people, I didn't live in him, my brother's shadow. I embraced it, and so everything he was the target because okay, you did that, Okay I'm gonna do I'm gonna do more. You did this, I'm gonna do better. And that was the whole thing. Even when I got to the NFL. Now, he was a much better player football, And I tell and people don't believe this. Football was my worst sport in high school.

I was a much better in basketball and track, been football. But I only played football because my brother played so and I wanted to be like him. I had. I was like that stack here we go. I was the other way. I was better at football than basketball and basketball for launch and said, he was nice and nice, Duncan you know what was your compare your games? Compare your high school game to someone in the NBA right now, No, don't don't do that. I was doing. Yeah I was.

You know, look, I'm from a class A school, a small school, um, and so you didn't have positions back then. Whatever you I could jump the highs, so I jumped him. Yeah, you know, six ft tall, six one hey country strong. I was. I was always always still goddamnit, I've always I've always had had this body. Now I feeled it out, but I've always was lean, and was chiseled and man, so I'll get that. Get them board. A thirty one nine team was nothing. Twenty seven twenty seven games stack

was nothing. We need to see the archives for telling about the drunk contest dunk. Before I tell you this, you know who beat me out? Was it my senior Michael Jordan's No, no, no, no, I think it's my senior might have been my junior year for beat me out for player of the Area, player of the year. You never guess who beat me out? Yeah, he looked up and got it. He looked him and got you nic. It was nice. But we're on the team together. Yeah, yeah, who's the late score? No, he was. I went on

his team. He went to He went to a big but the mare fact that I went to a class say, and he went to quality which was the biggest classification at the time, and were on the same thing. Yeah, Hey, I'd have been more like Oak with a better all around game. Bruce people up. He wouldn't get see I'm gonna let that thing fly. I ever thirty my senior year.

Before the three point there was no three puarterback then feedted two in three quarters like and nothing that before the three they handled three when I played those stacks, That's what I'm saying. I got third in the hard way. Can you imagine. But then you know, I was like, you know, I wanted to I wanted to be big, big, you know, start like that basketball and my brothers all the time. When I got to college, I started lifting, started getting three good meals. You know they feed good

at college. I started lifting, running track, and I know once I got to college, all at the football, just all I did with football and do my school work. Because see when I got to Savanto State, I was prop forty eight, So I was in all me your classes, all remedial classes. And there are a lot of other guys that as Avantle State that like the spaceship football players, but they didn't want to go to class because they were embarrassed. Embarrassed because get some of the finest girls

that the school was running. But I had had Dr Jorge mc lamore. She was my reading teacher. I was reading in class one day. Next day I read. She gave us some assignment. I turned in first, and turning in she came to me. She always called me to this day. She called me Mr Sharp. She said, Mr sharp, I don't want to see you here. The next quarter, she said, you got no business in this class. She said, you're way too smart to be in this class. Man,

I got a bottom thing. I got all the remedial classes because I was in all of them, got all out of all of them in two quarters, and started and graduated in four and a half years. Look, I'm getting up bout it. I was in the front of the class, answered all the questions. I was doing my girlfriend home work while y'are bumping. I did her work. Yeah, yeah,

real quick. Though, before we leave the situation with your brother, what was your thoughts seeing him his trajectory to me, I'm a football head, so he was on the way to the Hall of Fame. There's no question to sustain a career ending neck injury. What was the thoughts on that, saying that's your big bro, your hero, your dad in some sorts. Man. That broke me. Man, I remember getting

the call and I was talking to him. He said, yeah, because I saw the week before they played the Falcons and he had you know, he had a little he had a little injury and he seemed like he would like struggling to get up. But he ends up getting up and walks off the field. He didn't come back in the game. But I figured everything was gonna be okay. You had a stinger. And then the next week he played, he played Tampa. He has seven for like a buck

thirty buck forty two touchdown. Yeah, and so I remember saying, you know, and he barely he barely mean the I grazed him with his forearm across the front of his helmet, and he said he couldn't get over. He said he was trying to get up, but he couldn't. He said, he tried to roll himself over and he couldn't. And I'm like that little hit, he said. But they sent me to the doctor for some tests. Man. He called me. That was I was talking to him that Sunday night.

He called me that Tuesday night. He said, man, I'm never playing again. I said what he said, No, he said, the doctor told me said I got very lucky. He said, another hit, I could probably be paralyzed. Man, I cried, Man, you thought somebody died. Because everything that he was I wanted to be. What did he get? Seven eight years and seven He got seven years and years seven years to one case season when that was unheard. He was three time first team All Pro, led the league and

receive and had the Triple Crown. He was a monster and man that and not hurt me. Man, that hurt me so bad. That's still because I always think whatever right would have been one of the greatest because he he, he and Jerry were right there were they were nicking neck and it just it was tough. It was tough. I still think about what and I still to this day I would. I would greg gladly giving him my career, say no, now, hey God, hey giving me healthy, Nick,

let me take this. Man. It's just because because every everything that I was able to accomplish, there's no way I'm accomplishing this without him. Everything the way the way he pushed me. He could I could hear his voice. We're playing in a basketball game to Jim crowded. I can hear his boys do it like this, Hey, Doc, stop playing with him, take it. I can just hear his boys. We track, we go to the state track meet, and I can just hear and says, Okay, this is

what we need to do. He said, get your warm up, get good and warm because I didn't jump a whole lot I jump one time. He was over me one time. See I go and put it out there like for their feet and I'm done. Yeah, I gotta say, but I gotta run later, so I ain't got to put all them jumps on my legs. So it was just mat that hurt man. I still because, like I said, knowing how hard he worked. See, the difference was I

wasn't always the hard worker that I became back. I was just naturally God gave me more, God giving ability to him. So you showed me something, okay, anything, Okay, I got it out. But he was working hard. He didn't. He worked hard in school. He didn't didn't win in school, and I'm like, later for school, I'm here to play sports. It's cool. And I thought, you know, I thought football, basketball and track. Okay, their school. He was the opposite. He did good on his S A T s. He

got aids and bees. You know, I like, hey, they passed people with season d's too, so hey, that mean I ain't gonna take no home. I took one book home in four years of high school, and that's because the teacher told me he was gonna check my locker, and I read yeah, but man, man, but for when when that happened, like I said, it was like, that's still probably one of them. That's still one of the two or three saddest days of my career when he told me, say it's over for me. But so he's like,

he told me, it's on you now. And so we get to the Super Bowl and nineties seven and we're doing an interview with NBC and we're sitting down talking. I was like, yeah, I'm gonna give him the Super Bowl ring and he looks at me. He liked, he had no no, he had no idea that I was gonna do that when we win the game, and he's I'm sure he's thinking, that's the most prized possession. That's

what you played for. That's why you lift all those weights and all the dedication and all the reciters and all the things that you missed, you miss for that moment because that's the culmination, that's crescendo of your particular sport. Super Bowl in football and you sport. You know, the NBA Finals, you win that ring. But for me, that's not possible without him. And so the only way I could say, brother, thank you for everything that you've done.

Thank you for being in my corner, and thank you for doing everything, for being the man because when Papa died, there was no dominant male figure in the house and you took that role and you made sure your baby brother had everything. Thank you. That was like for me, the journey was what I what I because I got to live that. I got the bus ride, I got the plane rides and go into the stadium and being in the arena. That's what it was for me. That's

what it's always been. That's why I don't win. That's why I don't win the ring for me, the ring, it symbolizes something different for everybody, but for me, I wanted him to have that ring because it would mean more to him than it ever would for me. So to give him that ring and see the joy on his face that he got that, because I believe there's no question in my mind he would have gotten it

had he continued to play. But man, I wouldn't. But all that, I think it took all that for the way how we were brought up and my brother going through that to get me here, to get to meet to where I got to to where I am today. Yeah, but you got two more chips after that, I did, I did, and and all you know, people, which was the more special? Look, they're all special for different reasons. Everybody you gotta I don't care. If you've got ten kids,

you got a favorite, Yeah, you got a favorite. And they spanled to know that, but they know I ain't say it, but I gotta favor my grand mother. Like yeah, sometimes I just I just find myself thinking, man, what could have been? How how good? How good could you have been? Thousand? Catch up with a foregone conclusion because he had five sixty five and seven years, he was twenty nine, forced to retire twenty nine called eighteen touchdowns is last year over a thousand yards ninety four catches

and never played another down. Both of y'all still ended up. Well, we're trying to get him in because man, he's a Hall of famer. Ain't no trying. He's a Hall of famers. But it's great. And then you know he watched He's like, okay, bro, I watched the show today. Man, you you put in that work so I can tell you did your homeworkers? That that that the proud that's that's the pop stamping. That's him man, I mean, like I said, that's the type of relationship. Like I said that, we've never had

a brother. Now we fought what I was like early on, we fought. I ain't looked at him like that. I fight the breaks off. We didn't fight the brother. You got to, Yeah, you got to. You make me mad. I'm picking up whatever I can find. My ain't home. So it's me and you tell and getting in the middle of if you do beat me too bad, I'm telling. I'm telling it always come back to that. I would tell that. Uh. I remember we were playing played with acts and I ended up setting a field on fire.

So he telled me to go home and tell Papa. Somebody said the field on fire. I run home. Now, mind you if dry it's gone the fire. But I'm running fast. I could run through the I'm coming through coming somebody said. Somebody said the field on fire. He said, ain't. Ain't. Nobody'd been nothing it but you two fellas somebody one of you ain't. But you too, feelas spaky did it under I told to me like man, I was like, what you want to be? Do you wanted to kill it?

I didn't, even though I did do it. You want me to say that, though I couldn't do that, so but that but that was that. That was I mean, man, our relationship, man, it's just like and I think the thing is that when he left, I was I was gonna be a sophomore in high school. That was the first time that he was gonna be away and he wasn't gonna be around. So who's gonna watch it with my little brother? Who's gonna who's gonna watch him now? Because I'm not around. But but at that time, you know, hey,

I didn't get it out. Yeah, I've earned my stripes out for me and people like man, you said little, I said, I've never ever started a fight. I don't go for bad. I don't bother anybody. I don't bother nobody, I said. I don't even know if I'm tough, I said, but don't make me find out hot to fight. Yeah, I said that, That's all. That's all I'm saying. I said, I don't bother nobody. I don't get that. You know, we talked barbershop but all that. But everybody's gonna keep

their hands to this sale and we're gonna disagree. We're gonna agree to disagree, but there's gonna be no push. It ain't gonna be no shilling, it ain't gonna be none of that. Like y'all, but y'all different. I watch y'all, some of them guys like Stacks, And I was talking about this today, Matt when uh tray Young put the ball through Trevor reads a leg and trip. We did the same thing. But I'm saying, what if he did if you put and he put your push you into

yet like that? It was a fight off top off, top off top What I said, Oh dude, I don't care. Like the one thing, let me tell you what our value. I value this over trust, lord is respecting. Ain't buy that because if I respect you, I can trust you and you'll be loyal to me. But see, if you don't respect me, you're gonna feel you can do it. And never got kids, got kids kids like that, that's not for perpetuity. Now he's gonna have kids and they're

gonna say, Daddy, you didn't like that. Yeah, And I was trying to explain us, like, look, Trade was six ft tall. Now, he'd been small basically his whole life. So he's trying to he had to find a way to navigate and get the ball to the basket. So he did that, you're gonna shive him. Look, if you play a sport, you're gonna get embarrassed. I don't care. I don't care. If you're the best office of linement, somebody gonna runn move on you and get the quarterback.

If you're in the wide, receive what. Trust me, I don't got cracked the unt of the chin. It was sprawled out. If you play hoop, you don't got dump. Don't you got crossed over? You don't have something happened trip over the three point line and falling stands, And I got like, ain't nobody I say trait? See from that, I get both get I get it, but I get both sides. I'm not mad at Trade for trying it.

I'm not mad at Tred for doing that, because there's some people I'm not I'm not having that, you know what I mean. And I'm not mad at him, like he said, being little, being crafty. I love the fact that he pushed the limits and could do stuff like that. So it's whatever. But like I said, it's different if after some people that's a fight off top and no question. As soon as he did that, the ball up. So, seventh round pick out of Savannah to a Hall of Fame,

three times super Bowl champ. Talk to me about l Way, McCaffrey, Rail David's talk me about those Super Bowl winning Bronco teams. I remember going to when I got drafted, going to the Broncos. I remember I was like, man, I was thinking myself, said, man, John, they'll wait my quarterback. First thing, my sister said, Shannon, don't go out there bull driving with no John Elway. You don't know that man like that. What I do, that's just that's here. And for some reason, guys,

he took a liking to me. Maybe maybe because you know, I joke and I kept the locker room. I mean, I'm a seventh round draft pick. They gave me the number one, So basically, I'm just a camp body. That's what that's That's what I'm supposed to be. And I just remember my brother saying, look, just know what you're supposed to do when you get your opportunity. He said, Now, john always gonna be looking for you because he knows big bro. Yeah, he was like, Johnny, we're gonna be

looking for just be ready. So I'm trying to cramp, and so they got me learned that I'm fulloed to learn Z I'm supposed to learn to slot. I gotta learn all these positions, and I'm struggling. And I remember asking a guy. I said, at what I got on this play? Right here? He said, run this, I run it. It's the wrong route. Now, yes, yes, here, And I'm fighting for the same job. So if I he could get me out of the way. But I swore to myself, I said, I would never ever do that to somebody.

I said, if I'm secure in who I am and what I am, I don't need to be little for me to shine. And so I've always went out of my way. But when I got to Denver, I was seventh round draft pick. I was a tight end, and it just so happens every tight end on the roster got hurt. Now I'm the biggest receiver, so I go in. I'm like one. So by the time they moved me to the tight end halfway through the season, I'm two oh five, So I don't playing tight end at two

oh five. Man, they ragged all of me. They're throwing me all around in practice and so I'm thinking to myself, I remember all this, how they throwing me around. So guess what happened after the run blocking, real pass catching drills. Oh, now let's see who wants to go, because everybody did. Nobody wanted to go and give class k ors and Mobili because they were great run blockers. So now I'm looking. I said, all you guys that was counting, didn't want

to go against c k and Orson. Y'all need to see me at the land whom killing Wade Phillip to the defensive coordinator. So they started practicing me. So what I would be I would be the tight end from the opposing team, so Scott Scott team. So I'm not tight end. I'm cooking. You throw the ball, throw the ball up in the world. I'm putting the football. All of spacking the ball, I'll do with everything. Wade Phillips

blows the whistle. He's a dan. Put his asser in the game, and let's see if they can cover him, because we can't damn put in the game. And as they say, the rest is as far along was that. This was my this was my rookie year. This is my rookie Wait tell us wait till us come on the first team? Are comments sense? Because I say, you got the comment sense and that's what and that's and that's what, and that's what happened. That's kind of how my career started off. And then I just started building

this this relationship with John. Every tough you know, every tough catch that needed to be made to make it in practice, because you you can't get that trust in the game if he doesn't trust you in practice. So and then I started sitting next to him during the meeting. I said, okay, well, okay, how you want me to

how you want me to run this rout? I said this saying, go you know twelve, the four team, he says, and he would tell me, He's like, okay, let's try twelve, knowing that come game time you're gonna be a teen. So don't shorten the practice because they'd be shorten that much in practice, you're just gonna be I'm not gonna be ready to throw. And so that was the hardest thing is that learning how to control the speed a tight end because they moved me from wide receiver, so

I'm faster than all the tight ends. And so I was wondering I'm winning in practice, but he's not throwing me the ball. And he says, it doesn't do you any good to win if I'm not ready to throw you the ball, because now by the time I'm ready to throw you the ball, the guy you you covered again. So now you have to understand. So he's talking to me, he's talking through it, what he's seeing, what he wants me to do, how he wants me to run certain routes, and so I don't know if I can go to

any of the cause he's very patient with me. So they put me in the game. They moved they moved me to a tight end, so they put me the guy. I don't know nothing, So I'm struggling trying to learn why receiver plays. So they put me in the game. They put me in motion the entire game in Denver. As I run by ailway, he would turn around and timber what I got. So I go by in motion. He telled me out round, go back to the huddle, so he called to play. Put me in motion again,

run a corner block the end. So he did that for an entire game. I don't know how many guys would have had the kind of patient because not only he's telling me what I need to do, he also got to go through the reads. He got to worry about a defense they're running where he's gonna go with the football. But he took enough time and said, so you know what, So that just got okay. Now I need to get on top of this. And so I

got more. I started watching more and more take. I wanted to know as much as information as he did, and so it just got where were just like it was like second nature. So he had a large part to do with my success because he was very, very patient with me. I had coaches. Dan drafted me, Dan Reives, he drafted me um in the seventh round. But he said, look, his brother is an all pro. It's got I mean, gotta be something. We're gonna find something. We got a

lot of something. So I was on all the special teams, you know, which was at the time wide receivers didn't play a whole lot. I was gonna ki man, head, bustle man. It's that. Look here he was laying people. I was. I was going on the punt. It's over. They couldn't do anything with me. I let they put they put the double out there to put him head up.

I break through that incredible hole, getting the horses, get him get But you know it's different now, you don't really try to for me, I was looking, I was looking at that, I was looking at that kills. Yeah, it's different. And that's why it's that's why it's so hard to evaluate guys, because back when I played, they were trying to put there, trying to twist you. You run that seven route like guys, I've never seen to

run a one step slant Robert. But you know why because they're not worried about that kind of punishment that there was doling out back then. What you're running one step slam right, it was over. It was over. But now, so that's why it's so hard for us to evaluate. When they said, well what about this guy? What about that guy? The rules have been changed so much. The way they attacked the quarterback, the way that our defensers receiver, like,

what is the defenseless receiver he got on him? And show the pass he not defens Yes, you on the football field, you should expect to get hit. But and then and then you know ed came later to real came later. And then We started Mike Shanahan with my offensive coordinator when I first got there. He leaves comes back as the head coach, and then Mike was tough. The expectations that he placed dog and that's what I That's what I like. He expects you to make every play,

no excuses. He came in, you catch a pass finished forty yards, So he was way down the field, so we had to catch I might catch a five yard route taken, but I had to run forty yards because that's what Jerry Rice did and so that's what that was. Came from San Francisco, so that was our mentality, is that get home. We were always trying to hit our head on the gold post. And he brought the mentality of how we practice, how we met, Uh, the expectations,

have fun. But the thing was I just remember he's always saying, okay, eighty four, get him going, because that was you know in in training camp, we're gonna hit it, hey coaches, uh profits according to Gary Kubiak, in my position coach, he's an eighty four. We need you to strike up the band to day. So now I'm talking eight fo get somebody today. Somebody gonna get it. Got today. They don't want to see eighty for y'all don't want this.

Y'all don't want the kind of problems. And man, we it would get it would get going because and that that's that's that's what it was about. I mean, I got you. Guys have been on teams. All teams aren't equal. You're closer on some teams than others. We did things together. We go to the movies, we went out to eat, we go bowling, we you know, we played cars, We rolled dip. That's officially actually how club started. Club Sha started back in nineteen in Greely, Colorado. It was my

teammates room. They had to play station. They had all. It wasn't my room because I'll be wanting to go to bed. Yeah, So like how you name a club and it's not even your room. Guy to be playing play station playing all these games. We're rolling dice, we're playing cards, beer, all that. And so John would come up, guys would come up, and we'll be all time of the night. So the coach coming from bed check you

look and see, okay, so we're staying up. We got privtice the next morning, but we're staying up one two o'clock in the morning, three o'clock in the morning. Yeah, because we've we've in the dorm. We're in the dorm doing training camp. But they know I will be ready. I'm gonna be ready to Hey, I'm gonna be ready to glow. And then club there you go that rolling die al right? Bad? We had it. We had a crunk up in there. So that's the club started. That's

what club started back at nineties. I named it, how how are you gonna give a dame somebody else room? I think because y'all don't know where to go to bed and I'm not I'm not going to have y'all in my room to the three o'clock in the bowling so I could come go and come as I please.

And I've been at my homeboard was talking about it here, one of the assistant coaches at the charges, and we were talking about He's like, you know what, man, I was just thinking about that clubche It wasn't even your room. I said, I know that was down. It was going down. It was great. But like I said, guy, you guys have been on team where you're really really close, and we were really really close. Everything we did, we bowled. You know, like I said, we go go bowling together.

We went to the movies together. We did almost everything together. The training camp, you know, John, like I said, John would come up. Guys would come up and they might not even roll. Were just just show the show the face. And you don't understand how important chemistry is. Those are normally championship quality teams. At least you have the ability to win a championship those kind of teams. You know, I was fortunate enough to play on the team that one. I was on the team that I thought we had

the talent, but we just didn't. We didn't vibe like our chemistry wasn't like that. So I tell people all the time, it's more people, Oh, chemistry, that's a class that you're taking high school in college. Nor it's not not no no, no, no, no, you can't. You guys gotta believe, sincerely believe that that guy has my best interest and he got to know that I have his

best interest and the common goal. Like and I tell you know, when I talked to young guy, I said, look, whatever you want to do, I got no problem with that. If you want to be go to the pro bowler, you want to be all this. So you want to be m v P, be that, but not a the expense of the team. Yeah not because if you want to be that, I know you're gonna put the time in. I know you're gonna put the effort in. You're gonna put the training in, You'll put the studying in it.

But not at the expense of the team. Team is there and there they have been locked. And that's mainly what I butted head with guys. What I know all they cared all that, Yeah, all they cared about with staff. They cared nothing about the team. That That rubbed me the wrong way. I don't I don't want no part. I don't know. We didn't we wouldn't have any So y'all need to see y'all had no enforces. So y'all need somebody on that block, like to like your boy

your bad. He could have helped us out. Hey, he tried. He tried to post me up. Tell them what happened? You try to post me up? So this happened. It wasn't a basketball involved. What was off set? And I told him I can handle him, and I told him I could post him up. And I tried to back him down here. I couldn't move him right there. But I don't have a basketball. I tried to back up. That is what I have on dress. You dress, you go the way, but I just figured it out. I

gotta go around. I imagine that for him. Tell me what it was like. So after you you and John get your chemistry, tell me it was like playing with the one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. And he had a cannon too. It was great. It was unbelievable because, like like I said, he was a guy. John was all about respect. You see some of these guys where they don't get the ball, they throwing water coolers and they're stomping. Don't do him like, don't don't

show him up. He would never show you up. You run the wrong route, you timp a pass and he gets him accepted. He's never gonna show you up. If if you did something that he didn't agree with, he's gonna talk to you on the sideline, or you're gonna wait till the next day and he will talk to you behind. That's what I spect. Don't don't show me

up because don't don't let that fool you. Don't think because now you more high profile to me, I eat your ass up out here, because at the end of the day, the one thing Mary Port and Mary Port and Barney Porter talk me. When you go somewhere, you're a man. When you leave there, you be a man. So don't talk to me sideways. He gave me that respect, and I mean he didn't have to do that because he had. He was John Elways. He was already in the m v P. He was already a Super Bowl.

You know, he gonna even though he hadn't won, So he had already built up his credentials. He showed a young kid respect and so for me, okay, whatever you need. Like I said, there are a lot of great quarterbacks. And I went to the Pro Bowl with with with Marino Play, Warren Moon, Joe Montana, my last Pro Bowl, Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady with my quarterbacks. I didn't look here. I would learned it for a vacation. I

didn't tell about it. I looked at the pro guy looking at it and trying to win the car win m VP vacation. I did everything I need to do to get over here, and I ain't trying to win the m v P over here. Na na, but man, he man, look here of the superstars that I had, Like I said, I didn't play with him, give me sever because the way he treated me. I love the fact that he didn't show, you know, show up. He yelling at the screaming on the sideline. I ain't all

about that yelling and screaming at all about that. All my coaches I've always told him. I said, you could correct me in front of anybody, but you can't curse me. I say, Mary Porter, who gave me everything but life, never cursed me. So now if you want, you will see me at the food called me a mo fol and then you're gonna have to deal with me, so I might have to leave. So I never had a confrontation with a coach. I never really had no confrontation with a player. Really, I think I got you know,

it wasn't really no fight. He was it was cold one day, uh and I remember this, like, yeah it was and we were doing walk through and it was cold. I mean, I was bummed up up and this guy named he told the story. So I go ahead and tell it to Reggie Rivers and he I threw him the ball, you know, I you know called the pass that I threw in the ball and he threw the

ball back and hit me in the face with it. Yeah, we we have no heaven a walk through, and so he you know, I threw you know, I threw in the ball and he showed the ball hit me back in my face. You started, I threw him the ball. I'm like here here bro after like you don't know. But he was just scout. You're just on scout team. So it wasn't like the defense. He was just he was an offensive player too, but just so we would walk through like offense, and so we have level offensive players.

We have the rest of the offensive players playing the defense. So you know, you know what I mean, I threw him the ball. All he could even say just dropping let it into the ground, but don't throw it back and let me hit it hit me in the face. So I just I just walked up. He's like, yeah, that that was it. So and that that was that was That was the only time I've never even come close, uh to getting into it with somebody in the NFL. Now, that was the only time. Only got one fight in

college um with a defensive lineman. You know, we joaning you know what I mean. Guy, you go to a black college. It's all about joaning. It's all about if you come in late, you come into cafeteria late, whatever you got on, we're gonna make fun of. I'm gonna light you up. And so you know I'm lighting him up now, remind you all the up. You know, senior the juniors there. But he's a freshman like me. But he's a d lamber. So I locked him up. You

got the table crying, everybody laughing. So guess what he gonna do. He gonna come and try to take it out on me. So you know, uh, I think I had like a sandwich or something, and so I had some mayonnaise in the bowl. Dude took the mannaid out the bowl and just put it on and threw it on me. Wa wah wah. Walk. That wasn't just one you gave my whole boy, I gave a piece extra crism.

He say, I don't I don't even remember how having but I just remember the next that coach, they goddamn shop, what you're doing that cold to dude through Man, that's on me for no. Everybody was laughing. You must have been frying him though, you had to be fried. I love I love him. I loved I loved it because you know, when they're getting mad, they pick out the one person that didn't say nothing like what you're laughing because I was a freshman like he was, but I

was you know, I was a wine receiver. He was a defensive labman. So all the other people laughing was bigger than you. Yeah, but I got it quick. See, that's what you gotta do the moment you first, because like I said, now, if if I fired all these couple of these things and you still standing, yeah something right right? Yeah yeah, but I don't know to take the thing these first three damn. So that was it. But for the moment when I get long, you know,

I'm joking Stacks No. When he first came on, I'm Joe was a good time man. You come on the show. You know how we are. We were laughing, were joking, we carried on, and that's kind of how my persona was. My personality was in the locker room, laugh, joke, have a good time. Hey, it wasn't It wasn't no jokes me. I was chasing that ring. No when you no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm about no. No, no, no, no, I'm I'm trying to win. No no, no, but bulld driving not on

my watching right there. The type like stretching. When we go out to practice and we're stretching, that's the last time before that. We don't get all the joke in aside because once Mike blow that whistle, lock in, that's it, that's it. I'm a. I'm all about A. I'm trying to put that work in. And I had I had great teammates because as I'm practicing, I'm like, I'm asking the guys, uh, Dedrick Dodge, I'm asking Ronnie brad for the man, Tony Beelan, Okay, you cover this rock? Am

I tipping my rocks? Because I need feedback because if I'm tipping something, I'm giving something of I need to know. Let me know what's going on. Hipping me and showing the deefend of your round. I'm sure I'm leaning into a rite or I'm doing something. I never never forget Dedrick Dodge, who one of one of my best teammates. He probably one of the guys that helped me the most.

He said, I noticed something. I said, what you're talking about He said, when you get ready to break out, you start getting up on your toes, get inside it. He says, don't do that. He says, because every time you do that, I'm gonna dry that route. So that told me, okay, I gotta yeah what that means? D what do you mean? Come up with the press it through it? I need he gonna drive aroute. And so you you start, you know, because I need Like I said,

I need feedback. Now remind you it's eaven for it got to cover you in practice because he sees you every day. He knows all your moves. He knows and he when he starts hearing things if John Audible's he knows what that is. So but a guy that only sees you once a week and just watching you on tape, he is not gonna be able to get all those subtleties. So I just need to make sure I'm not tipping it enough that he can see it come game time. Now he's seen this route year after year after year

after year. What is man? It gets difficult to be the guy when you're going against him every day in practice, year after year after year. But come game time, it was it was a piece of cake. I see, I kind of feel like you were something like you said, you started that receiver once you came in, moved into tight end. But I kind of think you reigned in the era of athletic tight end. They could have played receiver,

but you were tied end. So guys like Tony Gonzalez, Gates today, Kelsey Kittle, you were them and played like that before it was real Titanus just blocker. Yeah that's it. Yeah. Um when I first when I got to the league, you wanted to tight into the extension of your offensive lines. Those guys were like six five six, six to eighty five, almost three hunders because everybody wanted to run the football. They're like, if you ring you, if you gotta run

game and the defense, you can win the championship. All of a sudden, they throw me out there and like, I'm a mismatch because if you walk your you walk your safety. I'm a bulliant. You walk your linebacker, I'm gonna run around here. So now, okay, how do we do that? So I started in the AFC West, and guess what happened. They go draft Tony Gonzalez, they go draft Freddy Jones at the charges. Don't go get Ricky Dudley. Not everybody is starting. Okay, they won't, they won't, but

but see what they didn't understand. I was small. Who Leo Jones is bigger than I am right now he's playing wide receiver than when I played it tight end. But well, I locked out on the stacks that I put his five hunting on them stack that we're going to where I get the right Hey, I get you right here, just driving. So so you're you're blocking, had

a lot to do what you're making them. No, No, that's all I was trying to say that the thing when you're blocking, just the way I look at it, I was more of an asset in the passing game than I was a liability in the run game. You see, you let everybody's look at trade trade trade trade. You don't don't playing the defend, but he's licking you up and getting your thirty on offense. So that's a great

trade of James Harden. James Harden ain't sitting in the chair in front of anybody, but when you like, you up for forty and so that was my thing. I blocked well enough. I mean, somebody got two dollar yard running behind me g D, M v P D looking at them files Yard Russias, I blocked for and now they weren't playing with team. Now I'm not saying I'm I'm George Kettle, I'm drunk. You did what you did. But I got to weight. So two Super Bowls and and uh, Denver and you go to Baltimore with want

to arguably one of the greatest defenses. They say you were there, but talk to me about being able to go over there and play, play with Ray Lewis, play with that team and win. Man. I didn't want to leave Denver Um, but but it was a decision. You went from Hollywood to company. I didn't want to leave, but it's kind of like a situation where I just didn't think I was getting the respect that I deserved. Your teen um and here I am seven. I had

gone to seven Pro Bowls. I was First Team All Pro four times, two Super Bowls, and all of a sudden, I guess because John was no longer there, they didn't think I could play. But they had started to use me differently. Ed has started well a. Rod Smith had started to become the number one receiver, so they started throwing him a little more. I can still do the same things, but I just wouldn't get in the same opportunities.

And so it was like Baltimore. When Baltimore came, I was like, all themore what they were eight and eight a year before. I mean, I knew a little bit about Baltimore of the Rabys because we had played him in nineties six. Never in my wildest imagination that I ever think I was gonna get out of Depper, you know, I was always thought like, but then you know, you see Joe Montana didn't finish his career, and you know,

so I'm like all these guys started. Bruce Smith was was all of a sudden gonna be was going to Washington and then talking to Ozzie on the phone. Um I saw as a matter of fact, that was the nine nine nine. I saw Ray in Atlanta. He said, Man, if we get you, we can win the Super Bowl. He said, because we got it on defense, we got it on lock. We just need a veteran guy man to get them guys ready. Man. So I go to Baltimore and I'm we're practicing against him. Now I know

what good defense is. And I'm remember going the back room and I'm like, they don't realize how good they are. They yeah, I say, this might not be nobody's ever seen anything like this. They could fly, they were I mean it was it was tough for us to get a couple of yards here and there. And then you watch it. You're standing on the sideline and you're watching it, and you watch the physicality and you watch the relentlessness

in which they attack people. I don't think very many of those guys could play today because it was just they were knocking people out. They were knocking the quarterback out. They're not gonna receivers out, they were not going running back. They're putting everybody out of the game. And then everything just started to click. Now we weren't that good offensively.

It was your quarterback. We started with Tony Bankers, and then they moved Triff came in there, and then basically the way we started playing, we felt if we could get seven on you, we get Temple, we get ten points, and we didn't turn the ball over, you could be you couldn't beat us. So now we're playing for we're playing for one play. Hence that that's what they called me Big Place Shade because I was the guy who's

gonna get the big play. We get that one place, we get that early, and we didn't turn the ball over. It's over you, it's curtains. So once we gotta leave, we got to the playoffs, and once we gotta lead, and I'm like, man, we're going to the super Bowl. We're going to the super Bowl. And it once we got to the super Bowl, I'm like, I'm looking at the jazz, I'm looking at the warm up. They're gonna

be looking. I said, they'll be looking to get ten points. Literally, I know they was only get seven and they got that on the kick off. But that defense, no, that was that was a special unit. And when you know, you look back at it and you're like, compare defenses. It's kind of hard to do. But I don't know if they've been a better defense than the eighty five Bears in the two thousand Ravens. Now, I'm Vias because

I happen to be there. But when you give up a hundred and sixty five points in sixteen games, and you don't let you to give up, you go sixteen games and all the teams combined don't rush for a thousand yards that's impressive. That that that's that's impressive. And so it was. It was. It was different because Brian Billy didn't care. We didn't have curfew. I we went to super Bow to matter. We could sue, but we didn't have curfew. He had one simple rule. Brian Billy

had our head coach. He had one rule. He said, guys, I want you to ride the bus to and from practice. That was his only rule. And then we get guys that the young guys to my man, my mom, here, I think I'm gonna ride back. I said, here you a I think cold just gave was one rule. We don't have curfew. Now you boy the here and you're gonna mess that up. I wish you might. It's always it's always somebody that you can do right. They want to do role for no reason, no reason, it's not now.

So we we got that. That was. That was a great time. I got to meet some great friends, ray Rod Wilson, guys that I'm friends with to this day. It was a great opportunity. Um no it and there when I was no. No. Eight, Yeah, way younger than me. Ed came in maybe my I think my last year I think everybody came in my last year. Yeah, I played. I played against him, against him because you went back and you you retired in Denver, went back to Denver. Tell me how important that was to you. Well, we

won the Super Bowl. I leave the team in receiving and they drafted tighten in the first round. So what they're telling me? So so me. Now my thing is to get him ready to play. See people look at like, what it's not my job. Actually it is my job because what if something happened to me during the season and he's not ready to play. Now my job is getting ready to play. Beyond how you practice, how you study, take what's expected of you. That's my job to prepare him,

to get him ready to go back. Going back to Denver Um, talking to Mr b who is the owner at the time. Um, he's like, I should never let you go. Said, I'm sorry for that, but you're coming back. You're coming back home. I want you to finish in the Broncho uniform. And then I talked to Mike. Uh because Mike and I my first goal around, we weren't that close. Because I don't think he he thought that.

He just looked at me and just catching, but there were so many other things that once I left, he started to see that the locker room, how guys, how practice, how he held guys accountable. Then you start to see sometimes you don't realize the value things until it's gone. So having a conversation for him and I was like, yeah, it's the right thing to do, you know. I went to Seattle, but that was too far. My kids were young. Then I was like, nah, they don't even be getting

on the plane coming thirteen hours. Uh. I meant six hours to come see me flying from Atlanta to Seattle, visited the Raiders, but it just didn't It didn't feel right. It didn't feel right. It was it was meant for me to start my career in Denver, have a brief interruption, and finish my career in Denver. And that was the best thing that ever happened, because the fans embraced me coming back. They always love me because they saw how hard I worked, and it meant something to me. Winning

meant something to me. Losing hurt me um, and I just wanted to make sure I didn't. I got the taste of losing out of my mouth as quick as possible, but I think they appreciated the hard work that I put into it. That's what's up so coming before you came from you know, thousand square foot, sent a block place, bunch of whole bunch of whole bunch of kids too, a successful career, three Superpols, and being inducted in the Hall of Fame in two thousand eleven. What does that mean?

Did you ever see? That? Was ever a dream? No? Um, the Hall of Fame, I mean it was so far Um, that's the NFL heaven. Yeah, that's where the grates go to rest and to be thinking of twenty five thousand men that will be either coach, played or been in front office in the NFL. I was two hundred and sixty seven member member in the prop By Hall of Fame. Skinny kid from Glennville, thirty undred people to traffic lights, graduating class of sixty in high school. To go here,

it seemed like a dream. But if people knew how hard I worked, and I spoke about it, I remember, you know, in my senior year, you get a senior book. Every girl side my book, Janna, when you go to the NFL, don't forget me, Channa. When your famous, don't forgive me every single one of them because I told him I'm playing the NFL. I'm going. They couldn't believe because nobody had ever gone really done anything. They could. Yeah, I said, you ain't going to NFL. They're playing on TV.

They make thousands thousands. Ye that's me. That's gonna be me. And I just everything that I did was preparing me for that. Not a Hall of fame now the NFL. Yeah, I wanted to go to the NFL. I wrote down in my memory in my book, I said, I'm gonna go to the NFL. I'm gonna go to Pro Bowl,

I'm going to Super Bowl. I ain't put a Hall of Fame in there because I in my mondy wouldn't even let me something you might would even let your dream, won't even let your fathom, but all the other stuff, and sometimes I still I still pinch myself to think, damn, I'm one of the best to ever do this, Like wow, you don't really it doesn't really dawn on you like when you do. When you do it when you can, you're not doing anything. Man, I'm going to the Hall

of Fame. I'm going to all of fame. You just want to be the best you possibly can. You want to just do everything you possibly can to help your team win. That's all I want to do. I wanted to be about I was always about the team and to see where I came from, working in those fields in South Georgia. Uh, Savannah Stay seventh round draft pick. That this it doesn't even seem it doesn't even seem real, It doesn't even seem like it's possible. But it happened.

I made it happen. I was very fortunate. I had a mom that made a decision that the best thing for my brother, my brother's sister, myself was to go stare at my grandmother and grandfather. My grandmother and grandfather taken us in teaching us to discipline being because their expectations you work, you know, my my ground. The first time the guy came by, Joe Tatum came came by the day before and told us he wanted he wanted uh to work for it. My grandfather come back in

the house. He said, I want everything big enough to stop, sir up to hit that truck to Marrow because you know, back then we roll in the back of the truck everything. So I'm five six years old. I get in the back of the truck going to work too. And that's why I tell people that either this job I ever had was playing in the NFL. He said playing, it's playing he was working. Yes, yes, that's working. People don't know what it's like. The bell Hey living them big

old bad see stack. See if you had that SE's da got your right. You couple that and I hey you pek. Yeah we hate fig when eight there. But you know what all that background because everybody goes through some adversity. It's hard. You tell me a person that has not gone through anything, and I tell you person that hadn't conference anything. So no matter who there, you look at Lebron situation, he's you know, he comes from a singing you know, single mom um, teenage mom, moving around.

He came through something most of us over had to overcome adversity. So we're used to playing basketball. Ain't't coming over adversity, especially when you grow up like we grew up. That's overcoming adversity. So to be to play a professional sport, yes, obviously you have to be talented, but you had to have to go through something to get to that point. And the more you go through the more hardened, determined dog it dedicated, you become to your craft, and then

the sky's the limit, the sky's delimit. You just gotta put the work in and say what's important to me. And what was important to me was making sure my grandmother never had to work another day in the life, making sure my kids because I knew there's no way my kids could live one hour where you came from the end of day that I had let alone a minute. So that was my you know, to try to get them to go to college, take care of them in college, and give them a head start because you know, I

started from the ground floor. At least I can put them on the second floor so they could could start them the cause they can start them their own. Yeah.

I mean, as a as a real true football fan, I'm glad the week because we don't hear too much about you on this on this side of you reflecting you in this line and as a true football fan, and really appreciate everything you accomplished, not only in your career as a player, but now what you're doing in journalism and analysm and you're one of the few people that have a very respected, real voice. You know, so talk to me what it's what it's like working with uh Skip on your show. It is one of the

biggest shows. UH talk to us about that. Skip is unbelievable. Legend, shout up, Skip, Skip is unbelievable. Skip is dripping drip. It's kind of hard to explain it because people see his brash, they see you no, they see his his tough exterior, and he just like, but man, he is. I remember the first time I met Skip and I'm looking at him, I'm like, damn me small and I'm looking at him and he's talking. We in production and he's saying some of the things and I'm like, I

heard him say those things on TV. He really believed that. He really believed that Braun ain't that good. When Skip left ESPN to come here, he wanted me to work with him. But Fox and I f it's one they wanted another journalist guy because they said, Okay, yes, Shannon can talk about football, but can you talk about other sports?

Because before me, all the guys that did this daily, if you look at all the other shows that all journalists background, They've covered baseball, they covered football, they covered basketball, Olympics and so forth and so on. So I was the first athlete to do a daily debate talk show that talked about other other things other than the sports that they played. And it was like, well skilled, we really thank Skips says, no, I want him. Well, Skip, let's let's see the Skip says no. Skip says, I

don't want to interview with anybody. I don't want to do anything. I want him. That's the guy. I've done my whole work on him. I know what everybody said about him, hard work, He'll put the work in it. So Skip went the bat for me. Let's just say, everybody wouldn't have done with Skip done everybody because a lot of people and they said, well, you know, we really want you to like, okay what I tried, but you know they, you know, they wanted to go in

a different direction. So this is what we did. Yeah, yeah, Skips, Yeah exactly it. Skip says, no, I want him. And so my job now is to make Skip right, to put the time in, to put the effort in, to put the work into study to know what I'm talking about. So for me, man, I do I'm here because of skill. I never wanted to live in l A. I like it now. But I never wanted to live in l A. Never thought. I mean like, I never thought a million years I was spending anything more than a day in

l A. Come visit, you know, not even gone. I live in l A. It's not my home, man. And being on the show and being able to meet guys like yourself, uh, athletes and other athletes and entertainers. Man, it's great that the best job. Look, people don't understand how fun that is, how it because I look at it like when we talk we come on the show, I met the barbershop, Kurch worry. Yeah, that's where we are.

And that's what I tell me if I was like, bro, I met the barbershop, and the conversation that we have that we're discussing is that, And that's what people. That's what people. That's why people watch these shows because they're having the same discussion that we're having. Exactly, Man, y'all

is better than Lebron and Lebron vicks. Stop are you lying? Man? Game? Exactly, So we're having those same discussions, but we just don't lie television to see you guys, how you guys talk about your sport and how things are and then have a football player coming in and talk about it, or baseball player or actors, and things still about respect, still about working met your craft and that's what it's about.

And then this now, I just work at it. Now I'm not obsessed like I was was because when I came out, when I first got here and I got the job, I would do the show and then I would go home and rewatch the show in this entirety. And I was just doing that over and over and then over and over. I was rewatching it, like, rewatched the show like four hours. And my agent said, Yana, you're gonna burn out. You can't do that. He said, you gotta do something. I mean, I mean I wouldn't

go in anywhere. I mean the first year I was here, I put two thousand miles in my car, I went to work, I went to work out, and I came up. I didn't do anything. That was it. All the things was just focused, like focus, this focus, just focused, just focused. It's like, Yanny, you can't do that, say you burn yourself. Yeah, he said, you gotta. He said, you gotta pace yourself.

He said, if you want to do this, he said, at this pace, you last a couple of years, and so I started to pull back out of like, okay, but it's a lot of work. To be good at anything, you gotta work at it. I just sit here and imagine battle off with you and skip against Stephen then Max Kellerman, how do you think that would go? And they don't stand a chance. You think you gotta you know, you know, I'm I'm putting you know, I'm putting you with Stephen A then right? You don't two on to debate.

That should be like an All Star debate game or something like that. They just go off topics that we could make this happen. I'm under the smokes and we'll do it. I'm all for that. But I always tell people about our relationship. I respect you and how I ask you questions, um about about the business and advice

you give me. People always ask about our relationship. I say, like a big brother, you know, he all he always give me the right advice, even when he sees something that I've done on said on Instagram when I he might not say noting that day, but when you see me,

you're addressing and tell what doing. I remember one time in the story, Um, it was something that happened recently about Kobe, and I was about to address it, but it was it wasn't It wasn't a fine line where I was second guesting myself and out of all the people I know, I d M him and I asked him how should I respond? And he gave me the best advice. You know what I'm saying. I responded the way So I just you know, this is just a question.

I mean, people want to know our relationship, but it's just me telling them, you know, little little situations that I said work and how we became so close. I appreciate that, you know, I was you You watch people and you watch Lebron, and Lebron like, oh he too, buddy, buddy. The thing is we got to get out of that, out of our community because we look at the old that's a side of weakness. Well, such a arch wouldn't

have done that. Well that probably explains whether or not more people like him because he didn't give the information that he could have. What good his information if you're not willing to share. That's what Kobe said. He wanted to enhanced people. And that's the thing. I look at Lebron. Here is a guy that Okay, if you're not talking next to the nose, you don't want to know that

bad business. You don't want to know how this man built the brand from a single mother and akron and he's one of the most popular athletes, one of the most popular people in all the world. You wouldn't want that information. Oh no, that that's a sign of weakness. No eat, each one, teach one, pass that information on. What good is all that information? If you're hoarding it? Look my thing the way I look at it. There's enough food I want everybody, And if you can't eat

right now, you can eat off my plate. Our communities, man, we gotta get away from that because I'm talking about us and that black community. We quick to say, Man, I wouldn't why that. We got to get out of that craft syndrome. Well, it was like this westead of guy when they come and ask me, so, okay, I explained to him. I talked to him. I said, okay, now, you can't not say anything because a lot of time guys want to get in this profession where they don't

want to talk while they're playing. Well, you gotta give people a glimpse. You gotta give people a little insight into what they could possibly be getting. That's why some guys do better on television than others, because all of a sudden, like that's but people knew what they were getting. For me, there's like if he's anything like some of the snippets and sound bait me calling the National Guard or me doing things on the sideline that gave them a glimpse into kind of like how I was and

who I am. And I think the thing is that one of the things that really helped is win the cap situation kind of feeling that lap because as soon as we went on the air, that was it. And you know, it's kind of like a situation that's going on right now. You couldn't straddle the fence on it. You get you your a. It's kind of like what's going on right now? You either with this government or

you ain't. No, Well, you know there's something that's simple as that for the very first time, there's not a whole lot of subjects that forced you to pick a side. It's like when you're growing up, you're back, Okay, who you with? Okay, I'm with the skins, I with the shirt outside of you on it can't it doesn't matter to me. Nah, pick a side. So and that feeling.

And I think when when people have heard me articulate my thoughts on that situation and give a little background in the context, I think people like, Okay, I'll tune and I listen a little more, and they because I kind of try and approach it. Yes, I'm a as an athlete, But how about some of this common sense? How about just come on. Now, you're on your job and somebody does that to you, You're okay with it? Nah, well he should take a pay cut. Okay, they come to you on your job and to say what they

need an extra fifteen thousand for caring an hr? You cool? They're cutting you're paying Nah? Hell no, okay, why you on him? Is easy for you to tell someone else to take a pay cut? Kind of ain't your money? But there't nobody else want to give up? Why they give up money so somebody else can make money? But you're gonna take money for me. So when you start, if you put things and people where people could, Like I said, you gotta put it on your scale, I say,

it's easy. Yeah. If you're making a hundred thousand and someone's telling you you can make fifteen million, but you gotta give a million back make fourteen Yeah, you do that, but you gotta do it in your terms. You're making a hundred thousand. Somebody said, you gotta give up fifteen thousand, or you gotta give up ten thousands. So somebody so we can hire somebody else, but I gotta do with me. You're hiring somebody else is taking food out of my table.

So I think that's the biggest thing. Is I just try to use logic. I try to put things in as simply terms as I possibly can to help people understand why I say what I said. Why I said it. Uh. I don't take no shots in anybody because I know how hard it was to be an athlete. I would love and respect everybody. It's never gonna be going back and forth because you gotta take a shot at me. Bro, if you took a fis to what I said, I'm sorry, that wasn't my attention. I'm just doing my job because

I think you know you at a professional athlete. I know what you're going through. Maybe not to the scale, but I understand what it's like to be a professional athlete. And I'm not gonna get looked bro. A lot of you guys, I'm going to be their dad, don't. I don't think at this point I'm saying I think people passed taking stuff that you and Stephen they say, because we kind of look at your the leaders of our

culture with this. So if anybody taking it that way at this point and they're just being hated at this point, but now you know, but and the thing else for me, and they're like, well you hate we gotta get out of this notion if stax. If I say I like apples and oranges, you can't say, oh, you hate bananas, and great you gotte I said, why why I just can't I like apples and orangins I didn't say anything about it. That don't mean I just like I didn't

do that with COVID. Yes, there there's enough eating this And just because I choose one of the other doesn't mean I like it. Okay. If I say, if I say Lebron was better than KOBD, that doesn't mean I disliked Kobe. But but people don't really know I used to cape for Kobe harder than what I cape for Lebron. Didn't know that. Finally, admitting it. You finally admitting it on the show what that you used to go harder

for Kobe? Thank you, Thank you people that people that nobody knew that my friend was telling the guy that cuts my hair. He said, here's the funny thing, and nobody who's gonna ever believe this? He wasn't harder for Kobe than he ever did for Lebron. Kobe with my guy, Kobe, Kobe was my man. You couldn't tell me nothing. So I had so this I was. I had Kobe. Kobe was my guy. He liked Lebron, so I said, okay, Kobe, So we got Kobe. I got Kobe, you got Lebron.

We can never change players. You gotta stay with Kobe. I gotta stay with Cobe, but you gotta stay with Lebron. He from d C. He know about this kid named Kevin Durant, so he wont KD. I'll say, I'll tell you what, I make you a deal. Let me get get me getting James. Okay, with Katie came when Katie came to the NBA, I got Lebron. He took k D. So now I got Kobe and I got Lebron. So y'all see y'all doing y'all own little bab shop trade,

and that's how it happened. But but but that's the thing is I think that's the hardest thing for me is to try to get the people to understand because I talked positive about someone else doesn't mean I gotta talk negative about somebody because you understand that you don't have to ship on nobody else to make yourself look good. It's too many people these days feel like they got to be little somebody to make themselves. And that's one thing we take a point on our show speaking to

everybody in here. We know how to get people on our show disagree with them, but don't disrespects. Well. My thing, I think we both transitioned, all three of us transitioned, and we so we know the players side, and now

we know the analyst side as well. And I think one thing I really take offense to, and I took offense to Nick Wright, who works for Fox, was if you've never really been in these trenches and done what we've done, Like there's a whey for you not to necessarily agree or like the style or play or whatever, but you don't have to be disrespectful because keep it real, you're doing this because you weren't good enough to do that, you know, I mean, you wanted to be an athlete

and you you came and you settled for journalism. So to me, I think it really bothers me when analysts that or journalists that have never been in the trenches, can't you gum and dribble at the same time, like disrespect players like you said earlier, because you know how hard it is to be in no shoes when you know what gets somebody upset? And look, you cover the game. You look, if you cover the game long enough, you

should have an idea what you're talking about. I get upset when I see analyst say things that actually played the game. I said, if it was that easy, why didn't you do it while you played exactly exactly? Like why don't wait a minute, you're saying that's easy, Well, you had an opportunity to do it. Why didn't you do it? So? And look, everybody has a job to do, and my thing is, I'm not trying to disrespect anybody.

I'm just trying to make a point. And yet sometimes I get upset when when guys do certain things are like, Bro, why do you put yourself in the home while it's coming from from your place stuff? Because you've been there and you know what the roadblocks should be avoiding it exactly. I mean, if I see the guys, I don't see a whole lot of guys because I don't go know what sta. But if I want to see you guys, I would dat the guys blow. I ain't got no

beet with him. Man, you don't like I said. I love k D, but Kate you should be above or burn account. That's what I told him. I was like, I don't like that you burn, I said, motherfucking text them straight from your phone. Yeah, if you got something to say safe, I ain't hide behind nothing there. Like, Man, I can't believe you said that. I said, Well, I can't believe you say what you said to me. So you just say whatever. Yeah, don't he don't let them sue.

You know, right you're talking to me. Yeah, I can't let you talk to me. Crazy But you know, like I said, But after, for the most part is the guys. When I see the guys and having been on this show, the respect that they showed me, Man, that makes me feel so good. I'm like everybody now, they don't nobody call me my name. Everybody called me una. I mean in d Wade, I'm like bad because you're speaking for us to Yeah, you know, you're speaking for us to

do when you're open up doors. And that's what we continue to try to do is just letting people know. I mean, there's other ways you can touch the game and the game be a part of the game. And for your transition to be, like you said, you're one of the only maybe that that covers all sports and you were a professional football player, so that takes a lot of hard work and dedication. So we appreciate that.

We love that. But I wanted to also talk kind of a two part question here, the thought on Tony Romo's transition to being shipped the highest paid but then also a two part question how NFL players are reacting to him making that kind of money and some NFL players don't make that kind of Yeah, they're looking at the guy, the guy that talks about the game is making more money than the guys that actually played the game. But it's about it's not what your worth, it's what

you negotiate to Romo clearly he got him. Yes, that's the way it works. So if you keep taking, if somebody like, well, here, just take that. If all somebody do is give you this water and their solda and you just keep taking the water, whether the solda is never an option, what if you just keep if you're not willing to fight. Tony Romo was willing to risk leaving CBS, and they understood that, so they had to pay it. What is value? You're not willing to risk

game checks? So the owners, No, you're not willing to risk game checks. So they said, we're here, take this and I the core player. Look, there's a one percent. Everybody is not gonna be in that one percent. Guys, they're guys that's never gonna make thirty million. So this seems to be a lot of money for guys that say, the core guys making six hundred maybe six hundred two million dollars, So extra hundred thousand dollars of a lot of money. But okay, for that extra game, what else

are you getting? How much long are those medical benefits gonna be because five years if the average NFL careers three years, So let's just say you're done with football by the time you good as medical insurance is your thirty one and is done. Everybody is not gonna be like a Shannon Sharp and get a job in television, or be Michael straighthand or be Tony Romo. So what about those guys? So I don't think you gotta be willing. You gotta be willing to risk something in order to

gain something. And so right now the guys are not willing to risk checks to miss and so I don't Yeah, I don't understand what the rush is because here's the thing. Owners don't want to negotiate contract with players. What are your left on the contract? But they want to do this deal a year before it's up exactly. But look, it's not easy when you got a lot of overhead. You got a lot of responsibility because you know, if you got kids in private school, you know you gotta

pay for your house. You've got mama house. You know. The thing is about the ownership is that they're lending. Uh. People will give them a break, says okay, knowing that it's gonna resume, but the NFL cut checks for them in March. You don't get your money until you play, so they will put somebody else on the field and people will watch it. So that's what happened in eighty seven when they struck. They put what they call scals,

and people watched and guess what happened. Some of the biggest stars you wouldn't believe across the picket line and went back out there. So if a guy that's a superstar, superstar going across the picket line and go play, what chance to do a guy another game that's barely that he might get he might get cut with that good? Is he that good? Though? I like him? I think you know, I've never heard Tony wrong or do a game because I don't watch the game with sound because see,

they will influence what you might say exactly. See for me, I know the hell I'm looking for. I did play the game, so I'm looking as Tony has talked. What Tony might be talking about. See, I don't watch the game looking for touchdowns of this or that. I'm looking, okay, formational offense, defense, Why he scored, how he scored, not that he's fans don't care about that he scool. I'm an Oh, they're playing they playing Cup of five, which is too man, too deep, safety man underneath it. We

call it a cup of five. So I'm looking at it's gonna be open and yes, yeah, so that's what I'm looking at. And so for me, it's opening in the middle. You got you playing, Yeah, it's twenty too member, they're playing already inside. They don't want you to get they don't want to get beat inside. They want they don't want to get beat inside because the safeties are splitting.

So most time, more times than not, they're gonna jump hard inside because the one thing you don't never want to gotta do is cross your face because that's the eas of throwing football. It's right there, make it hard for it. And so I'm looking at that. I'm like, dude, stop letting the guy cross your face. But that's why I'm looking at it. So I'm kind of analyzing the game like Tony Um and so in my way, So I don't listen no side, even basketball games. You guessed

in calling games. No, no, no, that's too much. That's too much. Yeah. I might be a cheer for goal you didn't catch that. You didn't catch that pass because you was out there doing something too something, but that that that's yeah, I mean, that's a lot of money. But that makes it better, that makes it. Come on, you got open the door. I've never begrugged anybody for getting their money, for getting their money. Can't do what I'm kind of what I'm procket watching. Can't do it,

won't do it. But you know some guys man, he ain't worth that ain't coming out of my pocket. Yeah let me see. Oh yeah, my money stealing that They got nothing to do with me. We're just stacks that stacks. Yeah, they ain't no minute. Yeah, I know you. You walk around a bunch of money, you stand on, but they ain't fall drug dealing day. It ain't fay. You walk around a bunch of money back into day yesterday. That I mean back in then when I played in my height,

that was you. Yeah, I keep I used to walk around if if you called me with listing five grand on my in my pocket, called the cops. Somebody just robbing around the car. Now them days, you can't do it. No spending it too much. But I kept a station just screaming my name, like I gotta spend it. I don't be having no money, all credit cards for me, but I don't. I don't shoes is my thing and bags too. Oh yeah, I get you know, I keep a little up here. You got all the dope bags.

But that's but that's what And I tell people there's like say I saved to a certain extent. I do, I said, but I want my my, my money and my last breath to run out. At the same time, I said, what about being joy? Why I gotta leave everything for everybody else to join? Yes, but people don't realize we get a lot of ship free to what do you get? Who? Who? You? Who? Cook? He does not? The ship you got. Jack does a begging section. That's where we're getting all this ship for frest. But all right,

I didn't. I don't have to beg him today because I asked him for the jersey supposed to get from Lamar Jackson jersey. I wouldn't say he had pulled the Baltimore raby, but I got to get my jersey. You're gonna get the jersey bag? I don't know. I might have to call who can I call Ghostbusters that I get it? I get the jersey. I got pooled you Baltimore. Yeah, did play Speaking of Labar Jackson coming from an era where there was Doug Williams war Moon Randall cutting him.

A few other mixed then, but those are only real prominent ones. I hope I'm not missing anybody too. And emergence at the black quarterback today it's unbelievable because you look at the m v P guys. You look at Lamar one, you look at Patrick Mahomes, you look at Russell Wilson because you know you're trying out to throw that in that But you waited till I said his name. You know how you'd be hating on that man. I mean,

I had to say his name for you. He was like he liked the field best brother quarterbacks that pod no, but don't. But but what you see what's happening. Defensives are getting faster, the field has spread more uhas, So now you need guys that can get out of harm the way, get outside and make plays in the pocket. Not saying the statue quarterback, but it's it's getting away

from them. And the NFL is a copycat league. They see the success Lamar, they see the success from Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson and Russell eat Cam with m v P a few years ago. So now they's like, well, hold on. Instead of getting these guys and try to make him conform to what we think is normal, how about we get these athletic guys that can throw the football and put them in systems that conduce it for what they do. John Harbor, they drafted Lamar Jackson instead

of trying to make him a pocket passer. Let's put him in a system where he can flourish. Okay, they have the best record, he wins the m v P. He's only gonna get better. So I think the thing was for the longest time, people don't really coaches, really don't want to coach. They want to be lazy. See, to get a guy with have that kind of bility, you gotta coach. You gotta put an implemental system in and you gotta coach it up. They just want to

just plug the guy. Look, everybody can't be Aaron Rodgers. Everybody can't be a tarm Braider, Paid Manning. Do some coaching. And what we're seeing now, man, it's great. I love seeing that. I just because there are a lot of guys that was before these guys that could have done this, but they didn't get the opportunities. You know, Warren Moon had to go to Canada for five years. He went five years of his life where he could have been

down here playing in the NFL. But now guys are, they're showing that they deserve an opportunity, and guys are cashing in those opportunities. And you see these guys the limits. We see all these guys were in the playoffs last year, with excepting that, but that has been in the playoffs two or four years. He's been in the league and he's only going to get better. So with that said, do you think we'll see an emergence of black executives,

black head coaches, black more behind the scenes. Well, that's what you need. You need, you need, you need black guys that's in position of hiring, so they'll hire others that. Look, it's funny that we got seven, you know, black players in the league and we only got a handful of black coaches. But you know, most times and not when you interview somebody, you interview somebody that looks like you, it sounds like you, thinks like you, and it takes

it takes something special to branch outside of that. What you're comfortable with, what's what seems to be normal. Uh, you know, and hopefully we start to see that that's what we need. We need guys and manage and management roles. That's gonna take our opportunity and give guys a fair shape. And when a guy doesn't win the super Bowl in his first year, don't canny because you know, because when they get black, guys get caned, babe, they don't resurface

like it ain't it ain't the normal. Just can they go get the trash trash, take it to the field smash. You can't take those chances too many bad, you know, uh, you know, particularly white coach can have four or five losing seasons and still find a job of black if he gets somewhere. Black coach has one of two bast seasons and you might need you either a lifetime assistant or find a new job type situation. So it's unfortunate

Barry quick Hitters starts going towards the playoffs. Battle of l A. You already know what but I know, But but sometimes you say you talk with common sense him. I don't know if y'all noticed. Y'all know y'all didn't noticed later, but they ain't know of my business only But y'all brought it up, so we're gonna talk about it. Yeah, y'all want to happen. Now he brought the forty piece. Now he's starting. Now he still can get downhill easily, still can post easily. And now he didn't added forty

four to resume. That's incredible. I think to me, it's hard to say that Janice and leaps and bounds ahead of Lebron from the stand, I think Kendrick Purgris might have said something like this because we always devalue Lebron's greatness in the East because it was the East. The East is something they say, East is weaker than the West. But if you take Lebron, take a look at the team last year when he was hurting, what they did.

Obviously getting a D is a huge help, but they went from dogshit the first place in the West, you know what I mean. So you gotta you know this is how you know le Bron to go the guy that he traded in New Orleans and the guy he traded me for. That's what everybody say. So I'm a coach. The guy that Lebron went to went to New Orleans, b Alonzo Josh Hard and now they got Zion. Lebron went back their minus a D and beat them. That's how you know you're good. Lo Cleveland, How Cleveland? How

Cleveland looking at with Lebron. Lebron had maybe less and took that to the finals, and the lake is good this year. I got a lot to do with a D. Don't do that. I'm not doing a D special, but don't. Don't you try to do you can't do that. That's it. I mean, he's not supposed to be playing like this

in year seventeen. He's not. You're not supposed to be leading it m v P, leading the league and assist the year seventeen johns opt him led the league and his last year with year twelve, john Stock could played nineteen years. He wasn't six. Yeah, jump and winning and winning and giving fold to Biddy. He's gonna be dropping on thirty four point triple doubles, getting forty pieces and he's still elevating you. Yeah, but all this now too. Yeah,

I love it. I said at the very beginning of season, if he's in a position to where a D is sort of like Jack said, a D is kind of the focal point that this part of the season in the playoffs. He's gonna be at his best. You know, I think he did a good job of riding the team and kind of understanding showing flashes here and there during the season and obviously what he can do. But to me, he just managed the game so much better

this year. He made sure everyone else got involved. He made sure a d knows, my fucker, we're gonna come to you and April and may so get ready now in December, you know what I mean? So he to me, his management of the whole season has been brilliant. Talk to me where you think real quick before we get back off the track, Mike, Kobe, Lebron, where they at? For you? I'm about to go. You know, God, James he's one because for me is that you look at

the totality you see everybody. It's like it's almost I even hate talking about, you know, Kobe and Lebron because anytime you talk about Code Lebron, Georgie Sex and on the finals, Cobe got more championships that they always got, always got something to say. But somebody, I mean eight straight finals, eight straight and the best player I mean he looked I mean that last year and and uh in Cleveland. Come on, man, they had no business, they had no business being in the finals except for that

man greatness. And and look when you look at when you look at teams that he's lost to, those Warriors, teams of all the championship teams that might be wanted, the top five best, and Lebron Lebron lost to the Warriors. Really everybody else did too. So so we expected Lebron to beat Lebron and Jr. And that and Rodney Hood and Geordan Clarkson and George Hill. We expected him to be Katie Steph Clay Draymond really and Steve Kerry. And when he lost, he lost to San Antonio. So what

we're gonna do with Tim? So Tim Duncan, There's no question. Tim Duncan is the greatest part Forard ever breathe. And so he asked Tony Parker he had Manoa. I was just coming onto the scene and he had Pop. So he losed that, And like, so what team that Jordan never played? That was that good question? I think Troy teams were good. They were the Warriors good. Yeah, no, no, no, I'll tell your team that was good, Big three Celtics. This is when they prying remember them when they were

a Warrior's good? There's level the good they was champions? Were the Warriors good? Okay? Which one, Katie? I would have known that? How many Hall of famers on that team? Who that Pistons team? The same amount of as as as the Warriors. Look, I'm just ask a questioning, chu you who's your Who's are you talking about about? Dan was talking about Jordans. Are you talk about Lebron? But

I hear but here the Jordan play nobody like like them? No, no, no, the detruit come on that Dad for Hall of Famers? So which which one of those Hall of Fames? Look there looked as a guy in the Hall of Fame. There's level the Hall of Fame. There's there's like in the Hall of Fame. No, I had better numbers than him as far as points. But here's keep a real stack. There's like Jim Brown, Joe Montana Hall of Fame. You

know that there's there's rooms to it. You know you go to the todj MA Hall, they're rooms in the todj MA Hall. Everything everything is housed in one room. So there's levels of this. The KD Katy, you talking about the top ten player. What it's all said done, he might be creeping down to five. Stephen Curry, Steph Curry, No, no, you know who's gonna be leaves going here? Man, you're gonna get it. I don't. I don't think you see how many consecutive seasons he's had, like Katie, the points

has been putting up. Yeah, but how many points Katie have? Twenty thousand? He got that about now we'll look it up. But think about what God, that go about to be a faulty. So I need another four years at points or something three forty thousand. So the man's gonna be top ten, he's gonna be number one point, top five and the top ten and reaps come on. I think that's that's that's where I think people misunderstood that we're

talking about the past. First player, Yes, asked for dude, that's in the top ten and assist, but still moving up, moving that for a second pass first, I want to pass you the ball first. But then I still got more points and still it's still having your twenty. Because I watched him the other night against the Pelican and he goes off in the first half. He has nineteen but now he comes out in the third quarter, he makes a conscious effort. He's like, you know what I need.

I need you guys. I'm gonna need these guys in the thirty managers and games. And then in the fourth quarters says, okay, now you got me here, let me bring let me brains home. I need to see goat plate. When that time you're seeing the play NBA finals one year, Yeah, we went at the Cleveland. You would ye, I did. I need to get there, but I'm a poor sport. Yeah, because he you know, I you know, I don't want to be around because I go and they lose it

and somebody knows me and they're gonna start. When oh, that time, I got like five of them. I got five, I got the whole leader for him. Imight dressing the whole uniform. I might got the mask to the go mask. I'll be at a parade. I'mouna be at a parade in Junie. You gotta get on the bus. Then you know you already know they're gonnain the title thirty six all time right now twenty two thousand points almost twenty three thousands. This is like what your thirteen No, not

that many other things. Yeah, no, Russ twelve thirteen is he up in there? Yeah? I Lebron, he gotta be your thirteen. It could be seen. Look at the goat now you know now you know what that is. That's so that sport that's like twelfth is behind goat right now, Katie put up some points now in a hurry. I mean, but I like Katie is because I think him coming off this injury, his his game has never been based off athleticism. Yeah, I mean you take Lebron's athleticism away,

that's a lot, but you can't take it away. I mean, he's in your seventeen doing he's doing. But the reason why I think Katie has a great run and a great chances because it's never really been based off athleticism for him is jump first. He gonna still be the elevating get it off. He shoots that bay so tall man, that ain't nobody blocking that incredible. I mean that's unfair. That's what's him. For him to be that tall and to be able to shoot, his ability to shoot the

ball like that, that's unfair. It's a yeah, what kind of means you listen to me and to Timmy what kind of music listed first? Then get me a top five artists. I'm old school, bro. See, like guys like listening to stuff to get them going. I couldn't not pass out, but I tried to listen. I tried about gospel. I'm like old school, not al Green, but you know,

like Barry White. I listen to Max Well, Shod day R and b Thu. Yeah, I'm saying you kind of neo soulis then yeah, yeah, because I tried to be like when I played, I tried to listen to stuff, you know, Tupac and get me gonna pass stop. Yeah, I get too am because I've never had a cup of coffee. Can you imagine me on comfee? I never did. I like, Okay, so I get too pumped up. So I need something to like just keep me going. I mean,

I I mean, I know all these artists. I know the Baby and Little Baby, and I know yeah the Weason my guy. Yeah that's that's my guy. But I gotta slow it down too much for your heart? Yeah, yeah, I'm too I get to to to wrapped up. Yeah already. Gee. Top five sneakers. I know you're a big sneaker. That's what you want when a lot of your money goes a lot of money goes sneakers. You're a Jordan one guy, for sure. It's hard to go wrong with the Jordan one. It's hard to go wrong. Um, I got the Frags

on today. I like that. I like the Duck series. Anything that they do with the Ducks, that's what that's. Everybody wants that shoe. Um. I like the Lebron m v P pack. I like the Lebron South Beaches. I like the Jordan's Jordan to the original, so you know he's sneaker of the name. Yeah, yeah, I like that. I like the three. You know, most people love it if you speak your head. Most people love the Jordan one. I like the three. I like threes and fours. I

like the three. I like the three. Yeah, yeah, like the threes, like the fours. It's hard to go wrong with Jordan's. Um and I wear a lot of Jordan's. But I got I got Kovid as a matter of fact, Um, I got a pair of Kobe when he was wearing the Harachis. I got the sign from it when he was in Denver played. So you got classic runners too. You got some classic Runners like that I like. I just like shoes, and it's a it's a bad habit to have, it really is. It's very expensive. But everybody

got their thing though. Look I ain't got I don't have a boat. And right now you know I ain't putting nobody else kids through college, you know what I mean by So right now you know I got a little playing, a little bit, a little extra. Boddy got a little extra. Yeah, So that's my face right now to you know, probably if I find somebody's settled down with, you know, probably sneak a game. But right now you know what I'm looking for. You know I hadn't found it, yea,

but I'm looking looking. Speaking of that, who's I mean? Single man? You know what I mean? Out here in l A well dressed kicks kick me. Ain't kicks do what they do? Who just celebrity crush? I didn't match. I don't mean to rept you, but ask him. I didn't show them so many deals. People hitting me about him. This is what I tell women that I go out on a date with. I said, this junction in my life. Right now, I'm looking for someone to partner with, not sponsor.

I gotta bring something to the table. So that's where I am in my life. I understand. Look, you ain't. I'm saying you don't need to make two hundred thousand, but just something contribute. Buy me a gilt, but not with my money. Yeah, you know what I'm sayin you don't do no buy me a pair of sneakers, don't mind me. Don't buy cologne. I don't work alone, so because I haven't worn cologne and probably thirty five years, I don't work alone. But buy me something with your money.

If it's nothing but a Lululemon shirt, I'm cool with that. But yeah, but don't you how you gonna use my money to bout me? Give and say I got you something, baby, know you picked out something. You didn't get me anything. You picked it out. But you know that's that's the hardest thing. I was in the relationship when I first got out here and that ended, and so it was it was tough and so um putting yourself back out there on the market because I was out. I was

out of the market for ten years. And it's different now, you know, it's you know, I feel like you know what's acceptable? You know, to talk? How do you talk? How do you approach somebody, So I get I get a little nervous because you know, if you say something that you know, maybe it was that too aggressive or I'm not aggressive enough, and so I it's just hard. So you know, you just gotta it's tough, man, It's tough.

Anybody ain't nobody to choose to me. Did So back to the question who who do you have a celebrity? Do you have a crush out there? Celebrity crush man? Everybody in my celebrity crush. Obviously one would be old Nico You know that we cause we don't say the cold, we say Nicole the Cold. I like Reginea Hall. Yeah, like I got a girlfriend, I'm out of the market, but I still like, okay, these are probably like the only ones. And just to see it, man, I mean

it comes and goes. I mean sometimes I mean you're being this mood where you like, you know and thick, and then the manute you like five too and petite, So it just you know, yeah, I just I just want to look. I just want to find somebody and be able to come home to and say and when I come home, baby, I'm home. And when she when she comes home bababy, I'm home and I get a kid. That's what I'm looking making. The other bester's yeah, that's it.

I'm looking. I'm looking for somebody to grow with. Jack has found that ye ain't married yet, but I'm definitely. Yeah, you're married yet. You just ain't made it up. You just ain't you're married? Well you hey, you live with somebody alone, you literally get mad. All right, facts man, We want to thank you man for your time today. Coming on really busy man. That's a wrap. All the smoke,

Hall of Famer, shinning sharp Uncle Sha Shay. You can catch this on Showtime Basketball, YouTube or all platforms, streaming podcasts. All the boys and we're gonna do something fo to something. Yeah we are. This life is all I ever wanted. I'm not leaving, not yet. I was hoping. It's gotta hit the streets. Make funny people like us. Let's destroy people like him. Buckle up, get Showtime free at showtime dot com m