H m.
Hmmm mm hmm. Welcome back all the smoke, Jeff. We got a good one today, man. Some of who's been a legend for a long time.
Man, some of we grew up looking up to and got a chance to play against one of the most name drop the show. Yeah, one of the time, one of the greatest athletes I've ever seen. Welcome to the show, Shawk. Appreciate check appreciate you, long time color bro. Got a chance to check your dock out. Uh in your duck. I'm gonna quote jack He had the body of Lebron, athleticism of m J left handed with the attitude to
run our test and Steven Jackson. When you hear people who went on to have long, successful NBA careers, you played against some of the best the game has ever seen.
And when when.
You hear those kind of guys giving you the love and praise you deserve, how does that make you feel.
On some level mission accomplished? And then you know, it's like a bittersweet because like I got almost all the way to the finish line, and I think that's the that's the thing that I have to live through in this life.
Like the part that.
Didn't work at the end that I was doing everything for, you know, and I still deal today. I tell people, you know, the mental health is real because I battle daily. You know, every day is different, but I start my day parting to myself, so I can, you know, uh, expel a lot of that negative, negative vibration.
Well let's let's let's dig into that, because I you know, obviously I think you know, mental health when we were coming up with and something that was talked about, it was tough enough and do what the fuck you gotta do. And I think athletes over the life last five years have kind of brought that mental health conversation to platforms and allowed other people to say, like, hey, I'm not okay.
You know, athletes to make millions of dollars. People who didn't make it, we all have some sort of struggle. Where are you at with that? Like I said, it's daily battle. Are you at peace with it? Some days you are, some days you are like walkings through that process. I think, as the most on a daily basis, I'm good with where I am in my life. I'm comfortable with my skin.
You know, I've been through my toughest challenges after finishing up player. You know that transition is like a whole nother life. It's like a rebook, you know. So I had to let the old me die. I don't have those basketball conversations with people unless they ask those questions.
You know.
My whole life now is about service, helping the community, giving back to our kids and beyond. And that's more rewarding than the money that I received. And it's like, because I know that I'm impacted making people better underneath you, younger.
Generations with such a historical start, how hard is that to put that all behind you? Like I see when you feel like it wasn't finished.
Right, It's a daily battle with the mind. Right, It's how we feel about ourselves. It's not what everybody else says about it. So I always say I got to check my ego at the door every day when I leave and when I come home again. But home is a sextuary. You build yourself up so you can battle
when you leave. So the whole thing for me today is about my service and helping kids so they can avoid some of these stays that I had to go through because in my career I felt like I was exploited rather than being built up, you know, and supported.
Inglewood growing up in Inglewood.
You talk about not having a childhood, I know firsthand you didn't have a childhood. I mean the big to be a good star and the worldwide national kick player.
He was at twelve years old.
I'm being on a Sports illustrator as a freshman in high school. That's kind of hard for anybody to understand. So talk about, you know, being a start at such a young age and not really having a childhood.
That's a great, great point. I mean it was like basically a traveling rock band. You know, I'm a rock star, where my team was the rock group. Everywhere we went, you know, we sold out games. I mean twelve thirteen years old, I was already known on ESPN, Scholassic Sports America, SSA, and Sunk his Kids.
That was pre social media era.
With all this stuff today, people got to realize that it's been diluted now because it's everywhere. Back then, it was only a few outlets, you know, Street and Smith, ESPN, Student Sports Magazine, Cal High Sports, you know, Parade Magazine. There was only a few platforms that we were aiming for. When I got to Sports Illustrated, it was like, I'm fifteen years old, where do I.
Go from here?
You know what I'm saying. And everybody else has grown up to around and I'm a kid. My dad didn't who, my mom didn't who. It was just me and my brother, my Aulmos played football. The rest of them was in the streets. And I'm like, they graduated to the NBA and in the streets, and I'm working on this thing in the basketball room, and I'm saying to myself, I've been to I don't know, twenty different states, timeout sixteen, all from player basketball.
But what's different is when we came up, there was only a handful of names you knew. Like now you know everyone because it's social media, but there was only certain names you knew, and most of the time you didn't know how good people was until you got to play with him. You know, Now social media you got highlights with kids that are losing games and still putting up highlight. But Shade was one of the names you heard, like Shae and you know Lester Earle, and you know
the handful of dudes you would hear about. But but you were definitely one of them. Like he said, it wasn't there wasn't a ton of outlets to have that kind of exposure at that time.
Absolutely a lot of other guys. I think about Ronnie Fields. Ronnie feels out of Chicago. You know, Zion's a great leaper, but Ronnie, he jumped grace from that and with y'all too, with y'all to, he had a fifty, never worked on his legs. So I talked to him. We got close to the Boston shootout after he had his h his accident, he was putting the Halo and came back and played again and was dunking with the Halo on exactly. Yeah, Halo World was still dunk it just a different breed,
you know. Paul McPherson another one in Chicago than two guys. Those are some high flyers. So every city at that time when we was coming out as Thoroughbridge, probably three or four guys that could play at the highest level. But it's a numbers game. Everybody's not gonna make it. And you know, I didn't foresee this part of my career and then like this, But I'm glad I was afflicted because I wouldn't be the man that I am today.
He started off with Easton Washington, they moved initially start with PTI.
What made pt I so good? Great? Question yourself. Well, after I.
Dropped forty on them playing with the Crito's Jaguars, shout out to Joe Perry. Pat Barry had to have me and we were practicing. I came down to a workout. He invited me to a Woodbridge High school where Chris Burgers went there, and it was just fell like home. And I had the training opportunity with Marvar Enovich rest in Peace tis Dad, and I just propelled to another level. I took my athleticism and my commitment with their training in that system, with the program, and it just went to all.
And what age were you training? Because he got I think Marve got a lot of slack or flack the way he tried to train his son. But when I was watching your dow con saw that you worked with him, it started to make sense. I'm like, oh, that's what he was working with. So at what age was that and how fast did you see results?
I started at twelve and took off. I locked him with Marv until I was about sixteen years old, so a good four year run. And I mean I just I put everything I had at it, you know, and he was a no nonsense and I like my mob. So it worked good for me because it was a good culture and it was more of a one on one It be me, Edo Bannon, my brother, Charles Oband and Todd Ridovich, guys like that. I see Troy Polamalu at different times. I mean he was training the elite guys.
So everybody talked about Grover and what he did with Jordan. I said, the best trainer to me is mart Ridovidge. You know, Michael Jordan made Grover at the end of the day, Marv turned athletes in the specimens.
Of them for the name man Child.
Uh, I'll give him, I'll give him, Yeah, I'll give him Marshall. Yeah, some of that I gotta have to you know who your mother have to the Good Lord. You know what I'm saying. And that work you know in that DNA my props gave me so rest in peace. It's just a combination of things. It takes a village, you know, And at that time, I think our opportunities were scarce, so we took it more seriously appreciated the gift.
I think a lot of guys now take it for granted and they play like they got tomorrow and that'll always work out.
Don't work out like that.
Regardless how much success you have. At some point in life, something's gonna hit you to make you understand it. I don't care what you're going through, how rich you are. Something that everybody deal with life, you know what I'm saying. And something in life is gonna make you sit back and have to either sit down and just and just wait to guard reveal something to you, or uh change change your life in the drastic way. You know what
I'm saying, because it could go south for anybody. Case Swiss game.
Talk about that against Pete with Paul and Kin about it. I was in summer school. I wasn't even at the tournament. I got a call and you coach hit me. It was like we need you, you know.
Uh.
They was flying KG in. You know, Paul played with I think Baron was on a younger team. So Tremaine Term was on that team, and they had a couple other guys, but you know, Paul and KG was the attraction. I flew in, caught a flight I think that night, came in. We played that next morning. I can't remember what time the game was. Jim was packed, you whatever, North Gym. It's probably almost three thousand people, you know
what I mean. I saw every D one main coach from Roy Williams to lud Olsen, Jim Harrick, John Thompson, all the biggest in the game at that time was front row. So to me, it was about I just got to shorting prove I was already locked in, you know. It was I knew the calling that I had, the gift that I was playing with, and I understood the terms that I was under. There was a lot of adults hovering around me, and I didn't have no nights off.
I couldn't, so when I was hurt or I wasn't feeling good, if I'm lacing up, I gotta I gotta lay it out there. And that was my own mentality. I can't save everybody, but I'm gonna come and play my game and then hopefully the rest of my team rise to the occasion. Well, that night, the rest of the squad was kind of flat. I think I dropped almost forty. I had about thirty eight, So I felt like I did what I needed to do. If I would have got a little healthy probably would have won.
And think we lost by like eight. But I mean that night I saw a guy play against my guy and do thanks to him that I hadn't seen nobody else do. And that's Kevin Garnett playing against our big And I'm saying to myself, like, this dude is special two you know. I mean he's blocking cook shots and mid air, you know, cuffing it, yelling at the wall like and he loose too, you know what I'm saying. So it was one of those things. But you know,
shout out the big ticket. That competitive drive, that's what I miss more than anything in that era.
There's a golden there. I don't know if we've ever seen anything like that again.
I think it was the last of the realness in basketball with people laid it on the line. There was professionals and we didn't make excuses count.
Yeah. Dogs, it was dogs in every state. What do you we came up here the AA you seying together? What do you think of the AU see now very watered down. I think people are unrealistic. Parents live too much through their kids, make it a job too early.
Yeah, and they need to parents stop trying to be coaching parent, Let the coach do this thing. Just be a parent, come support the kid. And if you haven't done where you're kids trying to go, then just be quiet and put somebody in place that has done it to help them and let them do their job. I think that's part of it. It's too much hovering over the kids. They're making them a commodity, way too young, and they don't know what they're setting them up for,
setting them up for failure. Everybody's not gonna be able to rebound. I'm blessed to be here. I almost took my life and it's real. People see me and they see me smiling, put a new fit on, gain the cut, and they think I'm good, But I'm really dying inside. It's how we handle the hell. You know what I'm saying. That's where you know who you are. When everything falls apart around you, what are you doing? Then you're still showing up, coming early, staying late. That's what I'm about.
You know, when the bottle's falling out, you're still doing your thing, or you point blame and making excuses.
Right, you know, I got a Tupac quote on me that says dying inside, But outside, I'm looking fearless, and I think so many people live that way. You can't tell that I've been through hell because I'm still here. I'm standing here, I'm smiling, I'm doing my job. Also, I think another thing in AU, because I'm coaching my kids now, is when we came up in AU, it was only the best players. Now, if a kid doesn't play,
his dad can start his own AAU program. And that's where there's just there's the Gold Division, the Bronze Division, the Silver Division, the pending, like there's so many different divisions instead of so like you said, it's really really really watered down, and then these false expectations that every parent think their kid is going, and now every kid thinks they're going. So it's just like it's a thin line between reality and truth when it comes to AU now, and it's definitely unfortunate.
But they don't they don't they didn't know how well today they don't know how to separate being cool off.
The court and on the court.
Like we we was together off the court doing everything, but on the court we did not know each other, you know what I'm saying, And we understood it.
It could be something.
It could be some disrespectful things said, some elbows or something, but on that court, that's all we knew. Even though our fuck with you, you're not feeling embarrassed me out here. I got to get the best of you, you know what I'm saying. And we did that with a passion. Bro.
You know what I'm saying. I think that's what's lost today of the competitive spirit, the.
Attitude of it's me or nothing, you know what I'm saying. I gotta take advantage of this opportunity. They are too small and it's too many situations where if they don't work, it's okay, you still can make it. Just like in music, you don't have to make a dope album to get dope album money, you know what I'm saying. And that's just in basketball. You don't have to work harder be that player. You can just have to have ten great highlights on social media. Now you're one of the best
players in the country, you know what I'm saying. So I hate that aspect of it. Now, the work part, the actual grind part, to really come from it part, it's not respecting no more.
Yeah, and they don't show you that. They only want to show you the beginning of the end. People don't show the process, and if they showed the process of how the elite get to become the elite, they would respect the game a lot more. You see a lot
of these kids today. They watch everything here. They're good on the phone, the computer, but communication skills, lacking the art, lacking accountability, lacking like you know what I mean, I queue the whole deal, the hunger, lacking what you're gonna do.
When somebody chug you real quick, they put some wood on your chest, bust you in, them out what you're gonna do. Then it's a real fight. When you get hit, Yeah, that's when you know what you got. So I came up in that era. I was getting beat up by my brother every day, two and a half years old, always playing against his peers, having to hold my skills.
I couldn't complain, I couldn't call no. I was lucky to be on the court. Now, fast forward fifteen, I'm playing with magic and you sell a man's north men's gym and I'm the only high school guy in the gym. Everybody else the NBA players. Grant Healing is prime.
Eddie Jones and his prime Kenny Anderson is prime magic and he still had a lot of fuel your tank and I'm running with on his team. I'm walking to Jim Helan magic holl that I got cont I like, man, I'm on my way in my head, you know what I'm saying. So forth the rug to be, you know,
pooled like that and I land on my face. And that was probably the hardest thing because the embarrassment, the disappointment, and the level of betrayal that I felt, you know, from the people that I trusted in that exposed me and explored me for money when I wasn't getting paid. Everybody thought I was getting paid. I just had a direct line of Nike. I had everything they made, but I wasn't getting no money. But now in today's ere with nil, I think it's great what they're doing, but
they don't realize who helped make that possible, right. A lot of guys in our generation right made this nil thing possible. Things that was mishandled in my career with Dan C two A made a lot of this possible stuff that happened with Ed being exposed with his jersey sales.
And things like that.
So certain players helped pave the way for the nil now and I'm glad that they're getting this. This should have happened a long time ago.
You know. Obviously now being older and wiser, you feel you understood that you were being exploited. How old were you when you understood it in the moment that you were being kind of taken advantage of and paraded around And it wasn't necessarily about you, but it's about what you can do for someone else, an older person.
Great question. I think sportsially straight ahead, that was like the good grade. Yeah, that was the pinnacle. I mean, I was already nationally known before that, but that was just kind of like, where else do I go from here? This was our biggest platform, And I'm looking around like
I gotta stay humble. I gotta stay closer to people that loved me, and that's going to tell me what was best for me, rather than what I want to hear, because everybody wants to stroke you at that point just to say they know you can get close to you and all that. So that was a challenge. But my father did a good job of keeping me humble because I did construction with him in the summer.
Me and my brother you know.
I value a dollar and I treated people with empathy and compassion.
One thing I.
Got from your documentary was your foundation with your family. How instrumental was your mom And like I said earlier, rest in peace to your pops. And then your big brother had already kind of set the you know, paved the way somewhat in the basketball space for you. But what was it like with having a solid foundation around you, because you had so much shit in then early age to speak to how your family kept you humbled and you touched on in a second ago.
That was big.
I mean my mother was more about you know, education and taking care of our responsibilities, treating people with you know, respect and dignity, look at people in the eyes, stuff like that.
And my father was stern. He was more of a leader by example. He didn't talk as much.
I always felt he was a little closer to my brother because of the age gap, and I think the similarities with personality, and come to find out, when he assed, I was his eyes and he shared that with me before he closed his eyes. So that hit me and it moved me in a different way. But the component of mom and dad at home at night made all the difference in the world because I had a cousin
I grew up with. When I became one of the top players in North America, he became one of the most infamous gang bangs in the street and did probably fifteen years, you know, maximum prison, four yard, and got a name in the street still today that ring bells, just like I did in the basketball world. So and that's just choices we grew up. We was doing a lot of the same things. It came to a fork in the road. I said, well, I got a choice to make. I know, if I go over there, this
basketball thing could change real fast. So I loved the game. I made sacrifices and I said, you know what, you guys, go do that. I'm gonna do this. And that's part of being a leader, you know. And that came in my house. My father taught me and my brother be a man, you know, be accountable me and what you're saying, say what you mean. And that's something that is a
lost dark I think today. The integrity, the accountability aspect, and you know, just with mother and father in the house for black males makes all the difference in the world. If you're lucky to have that, or if you got one parent that's investing in you and that's got your back, you still may have a chance. Without that, it's hard. All the pressures, you know, the pure pressure you got,
the disappointment you got, everybody pulling at you. I mean, when I'm fifteen, sixteen years old, I could have been driving any car I wanted. You know, I had offers to get a brand new house, going into high school as a freshman with two cars.
Paid for all, a brand new house as what as a.
Freshman going into high school with two pink slips on the cars, okay, with the deed to the house, not like, oh, you're gonna be paying rent. No, we're gonna gift this to you. I'm saying to myself, I don't come from this world. My parents didn't teach me how to just take for people. It was all about earning your keep. So I always looked at it like, well, if you give me something for nothing, there's yeah, there you go, there's strings of that motive. Yeah, And I don't wanted.
So I'm glad that I was afflicted. I hate that I had to go through all of these channels to be here, because it almost took my life, right, But I feel like I'm here today to help a lot of other people save their lives too. Touch on the men's gym. We're actually doing a doc on the men's gym UCLA Men's Gym. But you're coming in there fifteen years old, running with Magic, Penny a King, who's who used to come to LA in the summertime?
And Ron.
But as a young teenager, what were some of those games like and how did you stand?
How did you feel against those guys? Man?
I used to look forward to it. I mean, I didn't care how much I had to train, workout. I couldn't wait the group. I knew it was gonna be a test. Every time we got there, it'd be a different NBA guy. And I'm gonna be facing in my position. I'm mean, you talk Eddie Jones and his prime with the Lake Show, with Magic Sadel, Three's that whole team, Nick Van Exel, Elden Campbell and that's right. And then you had like grand Hill with his prime before he
had the knee injuries. You know, Kenny Anderson, he was still playing at a high level. I'm facing all these guys and I'm like, I can remember running the running the wing. I think Magic had the rock in the middle. He kicked it up to me. It was me and Grant Hill the foot race, and I was closing it from the left side, and I think he thought I was gonna let it up, so he tried to like swipe it. He tried to run by me and cut me off and swipe it low. I just wrapped it
with around his body and dunk that thing. He kind of looked at him, you know what I'm saying, like, yeah, you know, I'm here. Yes, it It's just one of those things I had to show a prove because I was the only high school player in the gym.
Everybody else's NBA guys, and I'm playing with Magic.
Because you're speaking high school like you're a young high school like you're fifteen years old, right, you know what I mean. Like we played a sixteen year old eighth grade of this this year in au You know what I mean, You're a fifteen year old freshman playing against grown as he looked.
Too, Yeah what I mean. He actual he's a baby though.
Yeah, you're really a baby in the grand scheme of things, and to get out to really do your thing, do you ever get a chance to work with any of those guys outside of themnstam any pros and you worked with coming.
Up or coffee with KD a little bit early with KG Yeah, kdran he came out and worked with him a little bit behind the scenes, but Harrison Bards a
little bit. A lot of college guys behind the scenes, you know, at all different levels, and hand pick high school players because I don't like dealing with all the guys because the energy, if it's not right, if your mind is up here, I'm not even gonna waste my time because in my mind, like you have no idea what it was like when I was playing it would happen, and how humbling it can become.
So you can be here and they built you up to do what to tear you out, So stay in the middle. Summer ninety five, you play against Code? What was that like? What was that game? Like? Man?
Rest in peace? First and foremost NBA players can't priss in New Jersey one of the first they did a NBPA top one hundred. Heard a lot about him going into the camp. I was already nationally known. Kobe was rising at that time. I think he was a junior that summer and we really we really went at it. We had a meeting that night before in the mess hall. Everybody sat down and ate in the cafeteria and you know, everybody's kind of sharing stories and we started drawing back
and forth. The East West thing. You know, it was at a high at tension with Biggie in Pox. So Kobe was feeling good. That's a choice words for me. You know what I'm staying and you know the big boot that I am, I've been right back and you know, I don't want to get in all that part of it. But we really got after it when we played each other. In my head, I was like, he's the one that's standing in front of me right now. Everybody else. I feel like I was doing what I need to do.
I wanted to really show him that he wasn't better than me because I felt like the East Coast always got the knock in the West never really got to respect. So for me, I had like the coast on my back. It was me and I think the Collins twins one of those guys that was there. Nobody else was from California in the whole camp. I left the camp with a lot more respect than I did when I got
there and me and Kobe went at it. It was my best one on one matchup I probably ever had, next to Metoworld piece as far as from a competitive aspect, coming every play, every possession, I taking, no playoff, playing it all the way to you know, I go with him, he coming right back, and then yeah, it was no accident. I said, man, this is what it's about. This is what you trained for, prepare for it to be played at that that high.
School and crazy talking.
Oh yeah, non stop, yeah, non stop. I'm going out now what yeah yeah, uh huh yeah. The West coast can go too, you know what I'm saying. So it was about that.
For me.
It wasn't oh, I'm from the western from the East. It's like, no, it don't matter where you come from. You gotta show me right that I'm from Missouri, from the show me state. You know, you gotta you gotta line it up. So in that aspect, would NB he ate top one hundred. I think Bobby Dantriss was there. He was running at Darnielle Valentine was my counselor and
he happened to play with the Clippers. And I grew up watching them in the sports run before they built the Staples, And I told him, I said, man, that crew you guys played with, you guys was tough as nails. It was a different era. So I learned a lot of tricks from that era too. So when I played against Kobe, I was a lot stronger than he was. He was more of a jump shooter at that time, and I would mix it up. I go inside and out, and it was just physically. I think it was too
much for him. Over time, I got the better hand of him. We had a hell of a matchup, but on that day I was better.
Did you guys stay in contact after that?
Every time we see each other in the summer. We always somehow see each other in the summer, like at Venice or you know, around La and stuff. He would always acknowledge make time to chop it up. So he never big timing, which I respected him. I think that was a bond that we shared. He never really spoke on it. He stayed quiet, but people would always ask me. That's the only reason why I would talk about it, because my whole thing is I'm not into showing people up.
But I got to tell the truth. When somebody asked a question.
The Nike All American Camp big names, Alan Iverson, Esteban we were the name a few. What were those matchups?
Like?
Great question? Also as the Bonn Weaver Columbus O House supposed to have been the main guy out there, six or four point guard. You know, he could do a little bit of everything, like a like a magic throwback more or less. Uh. We played each other at Nike Camp, and I remember playing against him, went right around like he was standing still. I remember one of the clipses in the tape, top of the key hit him with the right jabb.
Anderewverdonald lame Boom dunked it like he wasn't even standing there.
So at that point I think he knew, like, Okay, I can't guard this dude.
So he was switching off and doing some creative defensive taxis and created it, you know, from that end. But we still talk to this day.
You know, good people shout out there, esterbon In some of these other guys you mentioned another another name. I missed him. Freshman year, my math teacher coach ikes that modern day gave me a gave me a d had to had to repeat a class. Really, so I had to go to I had to go to summer school as a freshman. I would have been at that Nike camp with a I on TV Elujimi Lujami Man played in that one.
Yeah, who yeah, it's another one.
Yeah, that was the That was the guard before Beard, before Jason Hard Yeah, illugim Man was the guy.
Yeah. So you talk about mother and father in the house doing right by your kid.
If they would have had him buckled down academically, he would have played the U C l A. Things might have been a lot different because LA offered him like seventh eighth grade. So I want people to understand that. Yeah, Elluximi. Yeah, but this is a game that people don't talk about Vegas. You would get Mike Baby shout the mount You had about fifty Mike had about forty five.
Yeah, that was a crazy game. I was okay, we playing that time. Oh you remember?
Yeah, Yeah, that was crazy and a lot of people that was a game that people need to talk about more.
Mike was a problem.
He scored so many different ways. Hell of a competitor just kept coming. We didn't have an answer for him at the guard position, and they couldn't hold me at my spot.
So we were just going better than now.
Yeah, And I mean this is I think a holiday Classic in Vegas around Christmas time and it was one of the biggest tournaments at the time of year. So the gym was four thousand people passed. I mean every gym we played in it was sold out.
You know.
At MO day freshman year, I think we lost one game with thirty three and one lost to Krinshaw and going to go to state. Should have won that game, got cheated. That's a whole other thing. Followed me out two three phantom calls. I love you, Chris Johnson. You know they cheated, you know, but just the erab, I missed the bond, the brotherhood that we had. You can't capture that nowhere. And I would always say, what's life
going to be back after basketball? What it's challenging because you feel disconnected from the world some level speak.
To at a young age. The one thing I heard when everyone talked about you, you get a chance to see you play, seeing film, you showed up every game. The consistency for you at a young age, where some guys are going like this, you were consistent and speak to what you contribute that to.
Just to work at facing facing my fears, daring to be great, you know, uh, coming early, standing, like training with my brother, training with Marv, doing stuff on my own, you know, jump a rope, running the dunes. Uh donkey calf phrases. Uh, me and my brother, what's donkey calf raising? Put someone on your back? We put somebody, Put somebody on your back, and you lean over like you you did them.
But yeah, but you got.
To go all the way up and all the way down, all the way up on the tippies back down. You got to get those fires at the end where it feels like it's cheering, so you get that fast, twisted united. So it was things I was doing at a young age. And then you know, calisthetic training to pull up, push up, dip circuits and doing stuff for my cousins, getting locked up, coming home, showing me a little tactics to get stronger, get bigger, faster without having to take creat team and
all these things. So I attributed to the work ethic man and I just had the discipline and encourage to show when I got on the court. A lot of people play well in practice and then training, but they getting the game and another translator reason, Yeah, the lights get big all of a sudden, the lights the lights is the same whititch, but all of a sudden, you can't hit the shot, you can't hit the front throw, You're missing layers.
You know.
I can't teach that part of now, but it sounds like at a young age, which is hard especially to do.
Now you fell in love with the process.
I did, Yeah, And I love the game because I didn't want to do construction. I hated that so much.
I understand was that part.
But I knew my father was teaching me at the same time he was teaching me work, ethic and accountability. You know, I love them to death, you know, God bless rest his soul. But I see now this helping me in my fight in this thing we call life, you know, with the hardships and the travesties I had to endure to help a lot of other people. And I did the hard work on myself, pouring into me.
Instead of being bitter than scarred, I chose to be better, you know, because after I chose not to take my life, I started thinking about what do I want to do now? What is the next phase in my life going to look like. You know, I don't want to be the guy talking about what I used to do at the barbershop and things like that. So you know, I took
a different approach. I said, you know what, I'm going to help the kids coming up so they don't have to go through what I went through, and I'm going to do right by then work wrong was done by me.
You mentioned taking your life a couple of times already, and I saw in your dog you had called your girl and you told her this time and explain for those who haven't seen the doc, what she told you and how that kind of flipped your switch. We had, we had a moment.
I called her, handed three fifty seven up, pointed up to my head and I was just tired. Man.
I didn't have no feeling at what it was now. I was probably.
I was in Juco. I believe just finished Lovely City. I think I was going to Alabama. I was probably like.
Twenty one, yeah, something like that, and.
I just didn't want to feel no more. And I called her. I said, listen, I can't do this. You know, time is now. You know I can't do this life. I'm gonna take my life. I don't I don't want to I don't want to live no more. And she said, well, if you're gonna do it, come get me. And it moved me in a different way. And I'm saying to myself, man, she got that much love for me where you'll sit there and.
Go out with me.
At the same time, I said, how many people would actually do that? So that hit me in a different way, and I'm like, well, maybe there's something else to this. And it kind of grabbed me like I don't know, like I don't know, like God just grabbed me at that time, like, don't do it. Put the pistol down, you know. I broke down, was crying. I was in my father's truck at the time, and then I wound up driving back to the house and I just sat in the front for some time. Nobody knew. My mother
didn't notice for years. I mean, I think she found out during the film one of the screenings, you know, the details of what my mental health experiences was like. So but after that, I started thinking about reasons to live. So I tell people today, you gotta fight to live, you know, because it gets hard out here.
You know, you leave your.
House you're in a good mood, get on the freeway, somebody cut you off.
You got a choice to make.
You're gonna let them get your energy, or you're gonna keep your vibration high, or you're gonna try to run him down, and you know, get even and all of that.
So I learned.
I said, I have to focus on meditation, I gotta pray, and I gotta pour into myself with something positive. Every morning. I listened to Jim Rohn a lot. I was listening to Wayne Dyer this morning. A lot of people like this, doctor Miles Moreau rest in peace. Jim Ron passed away too, but he talked Tony Robbins, who's the biggest motivational speaker
in the world. I mean a ton of knowledge. It reverts a lot of stuff back to the Bible, where it makes it real for me because I know how God showed up for me in the mental shootouts and people pulling pistols and things like that. And I remained calm under pressure because you have that reassurance that you know everybody's not gonna live forever. And sometimes bad things having to good people, but it's what you do after them is what's most important. It's not what happens, it's what you do.
You were just talking about like things could happen and you could just leave your house with somebody can signs up.
You've been through that, yep. A lot of people don't know. Can you talk about that? You talk about that? Yeah, last two and a half years. I mean, I got a bad accident. Got hit by a diesel, driving in my lane, minding my business, driving the speed limit, doing everything right. It was a decent pull in the water truck eighteen wheeler didn't even see me, clip me. I got hitched to his bumper, I mean, lifted my car
up completely off the ground. I mean it was surreal, and I remained calm because God had his wings around me at that time, and I was able to regain control of the car, pulled the car off his bumper and pulled it to the shoulder, flagged him down, and then you know, I was in shock. They had to call the ambulance, went to the er. They told me, look, you're lucky about a half inch closer you did. It took about a year and a half two years to recover.
I did a ton of physical therapy and aguculture, A lot of stretching and just going through my circuits and my training and being in the sauna a lot in praying, man, because it was scary when I couldn't really move, I'd stand up and I could barely walk. You know, you feel your joint, your back just felt locked up. You don't really understand the value of your faculties until certain things are taken away. So I tell people, you know,
I'm upright, I'm whole, I'm healthy. That's a blessing in itself. Say you play anymore. I've exhausted my reperence.
I mean it was crazy. You still look like you can play though, right down my REPERTI that's a good I'm gonna use that motherfucker. You got to think though, man, like we didn't.
We done went through all kinds of ship through his his high school basketball career, right, and he experienced more stuff in high school. People experience lifetime of basketball. And we're talking here at twenty one. He's so he's dealing with so much pressure at twenty one and want to take.
His life from basketball.
That's why I say, it's nobody that I ever knew that went through so much was bigger in high school than this guy dog because nobody else was on the colose course this right as a pressure name somebody else right, So that that just it just it just bogged my mind when when we talk, we got through all that and he's talking about take your life, but he was just twenty one. Yeah, that's crazy, all this stuff you'd
been through in that short time. Yeah, the pain, you know, I mean, we're competitors, so you want to see a result. You want to see a return on your investment, and we don't get to return that you thought you was looking at. And now it's like, okay, well somebody got to pay. So how do you channel that frustration, that energy? You know, there there was an anger there. It was a rage inside of me for years and I had to deal with that. You know, nobody else could help me,
No woman could help me through that. My parents could help me through that. My brother I said, man, this is tough. I got to a point in my life where I don't know what to do and everybody was looking at me like I had all the answers. And finally I got to a point, that breaking point where I could go this way completely or I could just surrender. So I chose the surrender, gave my life to the Lord,
probably twenty years ago, wholeheartedly. Never looked back since, and my road has been more challenging, but it's worth it. And that's what I stand on college.
He initially was trying to go to school with your brother at long Be Staate shot at James, that's the homie tool ended up Like you said, at Alabama, how all that happened? You're supposed to go to UCLA, like talk about that role to trying to get in school.
Great question started at lower State my brother. We had some financial hardships at home. So my brother found out that he'd be mid lay first round kick idea if he was to come out.
So we had a meeting. He had an agreement and he said, you.
Know, we wanted to turn pro to help the family and achieve his dream, which he did, and I revisited my commitment. At the time of Lowry State, I felt like I could go bigger and I knew my talent deemed that opportunity and I always wanted to play at UCLA. I felt like it was the west coast, North Carolina, so it was an easy one for me and they were open arms you know. So when that happened, barren and early, and everybody had already committed and signed, so
I was like the last one. So I was excited because I felt like we were a good team and we was final four boundary year and everything was all good. Went to u LA, enrolled in freshman FSP. We're doing workouts, getting ready for the quarter system. We go through our classes, getting my last my last in grades. One of my proctors came and handed me a newspaper and see twelve validates Cotton, say the score out the blue. You invalidated
a score that was okay for Long Beech State. We wasn't okay for you, seal A. You tell me what hap And everybody looked at me like I was dumb, Like I did something that I wasn't supposed to be doing. Oh that's good for him. See that's that's what he gets. Like I said, you building luck to do what to tear him down and praise you for a little while, But as long as you don't succeed for too long,
the hate gonna come. So it's how you deal with it. Right, So at that point, it was kind of like something they right, why is everybody else get to stay and I gotta leave. So I went from UCLA to you know, evaluating all my options, and I said, well, I didn't really want to go to JUCO. I always would look down on that. You know, why would I have to go to JUCO when I'm good enough to play D one. So I looked at the prep schools, went back east, looked at a few schools settled on Saint Thomas Moore.
They had a rich tradition, you know.
Devin R.
D's head Koda Aju Din, one of my teammates, played there. Andre Drummond played in the NBA as well, and a bunch of other guys that played at a high level D one.
So I don't want to cut you off, but you didn't cheat on your sat not at all. Explain what happened. My guidance counselor MSS Goodman recipes. Vicki Goidman sat in on my test. She prompted it.
We were in like a like a guidance counselor room and it was just me and her. She sat directly across the table. I'm at one end, she's at the other, and just sat there. I had larger print. You were given at a little bit more time for my test.
That was all it was.
Yeah, because I was diagnosed to add didn't realize that until I was in high school, and they just made an adjustment for me because I would freeze up when it came to test taking when I had a timement, So they made some adjustments.
I was able to take the test.
I passed the test on my third time, I believe, And it was like I cheated, and I'm saying to myself, how's that possible. I got my guidance counselor here all by myself. Yeah, all by myself, and she spoke to it in the film. But the problem is my name had been slandered in the media for so long everybody just believed it. Believe yeah, And this film came out way later, so the information now it is like Luke.
Yeah, yeah, I had me to cut you off.
I just wanted to make it because it was a bullshit, you know what I mean. And I don't want people to think, oh, he really did cheating, not like nah, he didn't. They just tried to fuck him over.
Yeah. I'm a fun guy.
I mean, somebody had to be the one to set the example. I wasn't taking the money. See if you take the money and now I have levers to get you into this space over here. But that was the biggest thing, and nobody owned me. I wasn't under nobody else. It was like my family was running the show. My pops was the one so and nobody was gonna go against that. So it was kind of like, well, that's
a threat. And you're black in America and you got all this power and you're not even in the NBA here, how we're gonna control him.
It's bigger in the basketball party a too, So I know what she was going through. I had the same situation, but I just didn't pass. I should have asked that motherfucker some questions. He's sitting there the whole time. I'm just looking at him like, bro, you ain't gonna help. So I'm saying nothing because I really don't want to blow It's covered off mine, right, So I just abracadaba that motherfucker all the way through. I thought I was
gonna do it. But yeah, so I feel that property some bullshit and it making a lot of black athletes, all young black basketball players coming up in our time. You know what, I'm saying, because the test is already cultured to buy a lot of that shit. I guarantee eight percent is on the test has nothing to do with a nigga being successful right now, you know, how do you expect me to know that shit when I'm really in the game and I'm in the middle of it.
Explain what it is? Said? What is prop forty eight For those who don't.
Know, Pro forty eight is is somebody that doesn't doesn't pass a test and you have to go a different route. You're not able to enter that university that you're trying to attend as a student athlete. So you got to shit out and get your academics in order in order to have the opportunity in any way any way possible. Ideally go to junior college or prep and then try to retake the test, which they had me doing at Samet Thomas More. I retook a test I already passed.
I'm like, this is the dumbest stuff in history right here. So I had already been ran through the mud, and I'm like, how is one supposed to feel when you've done everything in your power to be in a position to succeed and done it.
The right way rights, and it's just robbed from you. It's taken from you.
So that's what I want people to understand that I survived that, and I thank god I survived that. But that's not the easy feet. A lot of these kids may not be that successful these days.
Now. It's broken a lot of people. We know.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying. That's not here today. You know what I'm saying. It's broken a lot of people. So our community, you broke it. We've seen so many go through it. You know what I'm saying. That wasn't strong enough to deal with it and didn't go with didn't go through half the stuff you went through, you know what I mean.
So you land in Alabama with a ton of promises and they put you with the Power Forward.
Told us about that experience. It was all good.
When I was playing the three pre season, they couldn't hold me, you know, played the Arizona University of Delaware to the Arizona Tournament. I can remember it like it was yesterday, at thirty eight against them. It was easy too. I'm like, man, it's gonna be fun this.
Season, you know.
And SEC Conference started and our big fellow Jeremy Hayes went down towards me up, had a meeting with the coach. She said, look, you know you got college experience. You only one that could really play the fore position out of our guys and see the playout of position. Don't play at all. So that was the easy one. And they hit me like a ton of bricks. You know what I'm saying. I got to see him.
I fought two years for this reality and you told me that I had a point guard that was going to put the ball in my hands. And then you isolate me at the ford, don't run no place for me, and I still become All SEC second team. People don't understand what that's like. And you're the guy, You're not just a smoke on a wheel. You're doing this to me. Then it became like my ego. Then like how dare you take me away from my home, lie to me and my parents, get me out here. Then you do this to me.
But you're using my status as a McDonald's All American to get Jerald Wallace and more William to come in the next season, to have less numbers than me, to get drafted, and I don't even get my name called.
So the handwright was on the wall for me.
When I saw myself being played out of position, I said, I gotta get out of here. I knew that, and I said, after this season, I gotta go wherever I'm going, I gotta go somewhere, and I'm going to get some money. I'm not doing this no more. It was three years, okay, it was like a big waste of time. And I'm saying to myself, if I would have known what I know now as a basketball mind, as a business mind, I would have probably never went to college. But I had to go through that to be right where I'm
at today. So I can't change anything even if I wanted to. You know, that's the main dollar question, what would you change? I wouldn't change anything because I would be a different person. I may not even be here.
Some other things that happened in the midst of that. But you get to the nineteen ninety nine draft. You're told by a few teams that anywhere from end of the lottery to end of the first round. Elaborate on that experience for you. I guess I didn't have a big enough agent. They had some of the most European players come out in that draft.
That I had seen. Igor Rakosovich got rapped to the Minnesota Templeles. I thought they was gonna pick me. There was a lot of interest here. It was at eleven, I believe, so yeah, it was still like right in the top fifteen range. They told me I'd be somewhere from fifteen to maybe twenty five or thirty. I said, all right, cool, this is first round guaranteed money. Me and my brother went to Legends, which is a famous sports bar and long beach for the Buffalo Wings, and
we did that, came back. I had my trainer there, ad my agent, Steve Kaufman, and my mother, father and I think my brother. That was That was one of my lowest points, probably, you know, next to almost taking my life and my father passing those three things right there. It was tough. It was tough. I mean I cried
like a baby after that draft. To sit through that whole draft and to hear Kenny Smith talk about me a sleeper on the board, a guy that he thought would have been picked up, and nobody calls my name. It's like something that something isn't right, you know, supposed to happen. I had to live with that. I had to live through that. Likes there's more education and insight in adversity than in success. So that's what I live
with today. Like everything that I've learned, everything that I endured, I'm doing it for a better cause, a greater cause. I'm doing it for something greater than myself, and that releases the pain, that releases anguish and anything else, you know, and that's a blessing for me right there to be able to impact people today and have platforms like this, you know, tell your story, speak to it.
I thought something that was really fascinating and relatable when you spoke in your documentary was all the young height you had growing up and accolades and stuff that happened and things not panning out and you kind of having to show your face back where you grew up and made your name map talk to us how hard that was for you? Mentally?
That was probably the toughest thing, because you know, after rising to a certain level where you're almost at the top and he'll looking down like who's who's getting.
Close to me? When you fall, it's like, well, how am I supposed to do on this? You know? And I didn't have no mentor.
I didn't have no no coach on the side that was looking out for me.
I was by myself. I just had my family. That was it. You know.
My mom's the only woman that stayed down for me through the twists and turns and the peaks and valleys. Relationships was filled, friendships, you know. Burying my homiet fifteen, him getting murdered changed my life forever. I'm saying to myself. Then bullets wouldn't even for him. But he was in the wrong room at the wrong time. So choices in life, you know. So I got a chance to see coming full circle, showing your face, where you make your name,
where you lay, where you lay your head. People can respect that because I shook shook hands and kissed babies when I was on top, and when I fail, I didn't make difference because it wasn't working out. And I think that's what people when this city respect that know me, respect more than anything because they know I never changed, no matter what the cause.
Part of the state of the NBA today it's entertainment. Yeah, it's not really sported anymore. I think they've transcended it to a different space. They've adapted the European style into the NBA game. It's very technical. I liked it better when it was a little bit more physical and just more up close and personal. I felt like the fan fare was different. I feel like fans got too much
say so and they too close to the players. They should be more secure around the players and the NBA experience and then let the spectators do them.
I think a lot of stuff is getting out of hand because of the money. Guys have a little bit too much influence the players on specific teams where they need to stand they land and focus on being the best player.
You could be.
Either you're going to be in management or you're gonna be a player. You can't do both, you know. I think that's a big thing in the game today. You have a lot of favoritism going on and a lot of guys that have the talent are slipping through the cracks. Then where do they go what happens to them. There's a lot of basketball players and not enough hoopers. You got a few hoopers in the game, Kyrie kd Bron You got some hoopers, yeah, but it's more basketball players now.
We have more hoopers right, A lot of guys that just grew up playing basketball.
Now you got guys that didn't play basketball to the tenth grade. They get a trainer, be on the AU. That's a high name. The AAU team. Catch a couple of lives. Now you're getting a hundred million dollars. He wasn't no Hooper. He's just a basketball player, right, you know what I'm saying. So that's the big difference that people don't understand that.
Yeah, in the nil too, I mean that the value of how many followers you have. Do you have a blue check or not? I got eighteen thousand or something, whatever it is. I don't have no check. I don't care about that check. I'm him in the skin in real time. Yeah, you gotta send me, Oh you gonna send me this, to send me that, to make sure you're who you say you are later for this, I'm tired all of that. Where is the realness? The authenticity? It's gone? And how do you recoup that? I say
this all the time, how do you manufacture toughness? A lot of talented guys. I see a lot of guys that can shoot, they can handle it like crazy, athletic, do all these things.
But when you get tested in the fourth quarter. Where are you at?
Then it's a different game in the fourth quarter, right, and the guys that step up then those are the elite. You know, I say it all the time. It's explosive as Ion Williamson is. They need to have somebody get him with a nutritionist and get his weight down. Why you can't get that weight down. You walked into the league of fifty million. Let them give me that bag.
You hear me.
I'm gonna be coming early, staying late, yoga pilates, I'm doing everything out there to maximize my career.
I don't think they look at that like we looked at it.
I think it's the mentality is different with these guys and if they don't wake up, man, a lot more foreigners is going to be coming in.
What's happening? Yeah?
Absolutely, at a young age age, your Nike bag was impeccable. Speak to the impact you feel at a young age you had on Nike at the time, I think it was huge.
I think I was a poster child for Nike at a time when they had you know the likes of Andrea Agacy, guys like Deon Sanders, you know, Scottie Pippen, was emerging. Obviously you had Jordan's, you had some some guys that were really represented for the Nike brand. But on the high school level, I feel like I was I was somebody that that helped promote because I wore a different pier of sneakers every game, different Nike sneaker
every game. And I was sharp who you wanted though, right, Yeah, just maybe was asking for his shoes after after camps. We was asking for his shoes now for real, for real, just making calls, you know, and they sent boxes to the house. Now Modern Day's got a lifetime Nike deal plus Gator Ray. I had my own agreement with Nike at that time, aside from what I was doing with
the high school. And when we went to Nike camp, everybody would fly in, you know, they bring us into a room, you get duffle bag and just load everything up. You go on the semi line, one after the other. Straffa Ganza. Yeah, So they did that with me, and then when we finished with that, they pulled me into another room.
We got something. I'm going I'm going to my room. That's not get my bag. They send me.
Upstairs exclusive right, and they hit me just don't tell nobody, Just don't say nothing, you know, but we got this for you. Yeah, we'll have somebody delivered to your room so they won't see you. So they play games, they make exception, but you got to pay a price to get that experience. And I tell people like you got to go through hell to become the elite. Everybody wants to go to heaven, but don't nobody want to die.
And that's what I see in this generation, a lot of that entitlement, that sense itself entitlement.
A lot of people said you were Lebron.
Before Lebron, he was someone who was able to, uh, you know, really live up to the hyphen that exceeded. How do you feel like he's handled because again he was on that after you. How do you think he's handled his journey up to this point.
I think he's done great. I'm sure he's probably learned some stuff from mine too, you know what I mean, low key, Whether he admits it or not, I'm sure he is familiar. He probably heard about the story.
Uh.
He had a guy in his corner, Rich Paul, which helped, which helped him a lot along the way. And I believe a family that adopted in high school. That that helped him also, that nobody talks about. But I've done my research. So I'm happy for him because he's been able to stay clean, he's been a family man business wise. I mean, he's far exceeded expectation. On the basketball court. I think he's exceeded expectation. But it's not really the lebroner for Lebron, just the one and only man child.
That's it, Shaecott, That's it. Yeah, that doesn't do anything for me to hear that lebrona for Lebron. He's not doing anything to help my cause. So what good is that? And you're in LA where I made my name, where I'm from, so that all that is weird to me, right Yeah, So for me, it's like the stroke is not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for the community right now. You know, where's the support, where's the financial commitment to our mission? You know what I mean, like
donations and things like that to our foundation. That's what I'm about. I'm after testimonies with my kids. That's what I really want. It's not about the money, it's about legacy. I want people to talk about me and how I help them become somebody in this world, and the time that we spend, that's what I'm after. The testimony is more important because you can't buy that.
One of your dad's final words in the doc was, it will only be fitting, and I'm paraphrasing it'll only be fitting. You were the one that's going to deliver the next great player out of California. When you saw that, what that mean to you? It's heavy, man. I think about that every day. You'll say, well, I'm still looking, I'm still searching. He I got a young pupp you know, he's in training. He's like a Cane Corso puppy right now. But we get him together, get him up to speed.
He's gonna be a problem. He Apollo Creed's bloodline, you know, Carl Wellers, the real Yeah. So you just never know.
Man.
You throw enough ship against the wall, some of it is gonna stick. And that's my mentality with all this. But in this era it's a little bit more challenged because some people feel like I'm outdated, But in my head I'm spot on because the game is still the same and the stuff that I teach the player, I know it works.
Because I did it right time if the knowledge is time.
Absolutely absolutely, and they look at it as oh, if you don't have a facility in the fancy equipment and a big name guy behind you, and there's no value there, right, that's this error.
Everybody could have that and still not make it right. Who is Shake Cotton outside of basketball.
Man, a lawyal servant, Uh, somebody that had taken short off, you know, shut off the back for you, that's gonna do whatever you gotta do to help make the community better, to to rise up the youth and teach them how to do it the right way. Somebody that's gonna continue to set the bar in his own way. You know. I'm a do it or die. That's my mentality. And you know, like I said, it's about legacy for me. Now that's what I'm chasing them testimonies. It's not about
this is great. But I've been in darkness for a long time, so the cameras don't really do nothing for me either. I know, there's a time for everything, you know, and this has to happen because people need to know that I got here and it took a price to get here, you know, and take a major price and if you're willing to pay it, then you're gonna be successful in life.
Everybody's not gonna play basketball. Some people are lawyers, doctors, whatever. But whatever you do, you have to focus on your process.
You know, there's no I tell people all the time, there's no elevator to success.
You got to take the stairs.
Speak to your program that you're working with the youth right now and what you guys do in the community.
The foundation nonprofit five Want to See three. It's called Academy of Ideas. We basically service the La Greater La County area, with the epicenter being Long Beach. We partner with the LBUSD Lunger Unified School District this year and we have a program running right now. Currently, I'm wearing a T shirt the clinic. It's every Monday and Friday. We actually have a session to night. It runs for about an hour and a half. We do an hour
basketball and thirty minutes of mental health. So it's powerful because I give the kids a voice. I created this thing called a Circle of Trust and we put shares in a circle around the half court and everybody sits there and I sit right in the middle of them, and they get to write one question and it remains anonymous. We put it in a barrel and I shake it up and we go through them one at a time and remain anonymous. And we just dig into a lot
of stuff. When I talk about life not just sport, how you dealing with academics, you know, what its home life look like? What are some of the peer pressures you're dealing with. I mean, we're just piling layers back a little by little, so the parents seem to love it and the kids seem to become more well rounded. So we're excited. We're just building.
Beautiful make sure we get all that information because we want to make a donation on the half of all the smoke absolutely to your commitment and your movement.
And if you need us, we're there. Let us not.
So you talk about the doctor and what you do with the doc to research with the doctor. Yeah, so we uh, we're looking we're looking at doing some things with the documentary man. At this point, we're still in a contract with the ten ninety one Media out of New York City, so that's going to be finishing up pretty soon.
You know, we're looking to get get it, wrap it up and get.
It out, you know, on a large level, because there's a lot of people that don't know about me. That hasn't really hurt the story because of lack of marketing because were released during COVID, so that kind of had hurt a lot of our push because everything's shut down. But I think the timing now couldn't be better, you know, with the work being done. So the film is one engine. Then I got to speaking engagements that I do also,
So typically we have a shakecout and experience. I showed the film and then we do a Q and A for about an hour forty five minutes after through, and they could ask any question And it is so powerful because you've got the subject of the film right in front of you and you've already been moved some people moved to tears or anger or whatever, right and they want to voice that. So we tap into that right after.
This is powerful, So anybody looking to get that experience, they could tap in with us as well.
So yeah, once you get the free let us know, we definitely line that up. All right, man, We appreciate your time. You know, we can't say enough about your journey, learning more about your journey and how you came out on the other side. You know, a lot of people that have been through the shit you've been through are
here no more. And the fact that you are a speaking testament that you know you've been able to make it through the journey and continue to show love and build others up and and poor into that next generation. That really says a lot about your character and the way you were raised.
Man.
So we just want to make sure you know that you loved, respected and appreciated, and you always got a home here.
Bro.
Appreciate you all, all right, quick hitters. First thing to come to mind, and let us know m J Kobe.
Bron wrinkle, Uh, m J one, Kobe two, Bron three, my missing something, the same ship we say, top five.
L A born who who's all time?
Okay, Uh, I'm gonna have to go with myself, and I know that I agree with you. Raymond Lewis, I probably say high play Williams, John Hot Play Williams. Uh yeah, No.
BD gotta be in there. You gotta be top five. One album you can listen to on repeat. Man, that's a good question.
Uh, it's it's either Pocker Beig.
I mean I listened to both of them probably equal't going wrong one second. My next question, how did he get the nickname hot plate? That boy could eat? I had to how do you get a big name called hot So he was a big boy.
Yeah, yeah, he was slimming high school and he put on some weight because his buddy died in the boat. Actually, and he went to a depression and you know something we eat for comfort. Yeah, and that's what he started to gain weight.
Play. Yeah, he's still nice. Play.
He was a bucket best basketball shoe all time. Not feelm show shoot shoot Jordan five?
Yeah. Or the hirachi that the mission. Yeah, they came around. Yeah, they were doing they redoing the hirachis too nice.
Uh.
Five dinner guests? You plus five people did? Are a lot? Was at your table? Wow? Profound? I'd have to say Jim Rong my dad. I would probably like to meet Mahatma Gandhi h Man. That's you got some goings. Let me see.
Uh doctor milesman Row probably zig Zigglarig Yeah, big. The first time here is yeah, the first time here.
A couple of people.
If you can have if you can see somebody on our show, who would it be? But you have to help us get them on the show. Oh, somebody hasn't been on the show. Whatever you want to see on the show, you have to help us get them on the show.
Though, on the show how it feels? Yeah, yeah, you know, you know that's my got Yeah. I like that. That's a good call too, Shade Cotton.
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